XM Magdalena 3D print, GGeorgy (3D)
LC #42 Pipers Alley

View Full Version : Lighting Challenge #11: Brand X

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07-22-2007, 02:22 PM
This is an old challenge now, this thread is archived. If you scroll down to the Challenge #11 section of the downloads page, you'll see that the models can still be downloaded for your tests, and also that a gallery has been made of top entries. Feel free to browse this thread to see what others have posted, even though you can no longer post here.

Show that Leet is better than Brand X.

Lighting Challenge #11 is on-line! You can download the 3D models and label texture maps from this page:


3DS (http://forumleaders.s3.amazonaws.com/challenges/lighting/11-BrandX_3DS.rar)
C4D (http://forumleaders.s3.amazonaws.com/challenges/lighting/11-BrandX_C4D.rar)
FBX (http://forumleaders.s3.amazonaws.com/challenges/lighting/11-BrandX_FBX.rar)
IGES (http://forumleaders.s3.amazonaws.com/challenges/lighting/11-BrandX_IGES.rar)
MAYA (http://forumleaders.s3.amazonaws.com/challenges/lighting/11-BrandX_MAYA.rar)
OBJ (http://forumleaders.s3.amazonaws.com/challenges/lighting/11-BrandX_OBJ.rar)
XSI (http://forumleaders.s3.amazonaws.com/challenges/lighting/11-BrandX_XSI.rar)

These scene contains two almost identical bottles of a fictional product. It comes with texture maps for the product labels identifying Brand X on the left, and Leet on the right.

The challenge includes bottle model(s) and label texture maps.
You need to create a comparison image to show that Leet is better than Brand X.


Your goal is to create an advertising comparison image which shows that Leet is better than Brand X. Since the products appear similar, you need to differentiate them through how you light and render the two products.

Please credit the modeling by Anthony J. Thomas if you put renderings of this scene into your webpage or your portfolio. Anthony designed and built the original models.

Light and render this scene in any 3D software. Use any texturing, shading, lighting, rendering and compositing techniques of your choice. The bottles do not have to appear transparent, but they include interior details that would be needed if you choose transparent shaders. You can change the models as needed, but please use the included labels on the products so that people can tell them apart. Use any background or environment or background image that you want to complete your concept.


07-22-2007, 03:20 PM
Ha... Nice one Jeremy, :applause:
I think that challenge will focus more on the lighting, than the shading and the texturing.
I could use the practice.
But what does the fictional Product do??
emm.. maybe that's not so related to lighting...
Just curious, though :)

Nice one, If there's no time for it... I'll creat some on my own


07-22-2007, 04:18 PM
MinaRagaie -

You can decide for yourself what it does. Whether it's soap or medicine or coolant or cleaner or whatever, the important point is that Leet does it better than Brand X. Sometimes an ad shows a demonstration of a product that makes it clear what it's supposed to do, other times it doesn't. Some ads are just about showing a better image for the product, what a great new world it opens up, or what a refreshing change it is from the competition.


07-22-2007, 06:14 PM
To open the door :

07-22-2007, 11:43 PM
Lazzhar -

That's great! Congratulations on being first, too, you deserve some kind of a prize for that.


07-23-2007, 04:45 AM
How do you get that effect with the lighting?

07-23-2007, 05:04 AM
How do you get that effect with the lighting?

Hey Anthony -- good work on the models dude.

That's done with volume lighting / light fog with shadows on. It shouldn't be too hard -- not sure how in maya exactly, but I know it's really not too complicated.

07-23-2007, 05:28 AM
good one lazzhar.... i wonder what the bottle contains... looks like liquid soap though ..
good one Jeremy .. had to wait a long time ... i am already working on it .. :)

07-23-2007, 06:17 AM
lazzhar : nice idea and good start. It is looking cool.

It is great to have this new challenge. Something on products, kind of like commercial advertisement, that will benefit everyone of us in this forum. I will have mine on this soon.

07-23-2007, 08:21 AM
Ack this is harder than it looked.

07-23-2007, 08:22 AM
Im going to give it's bounce lights more color. This scene has no GI. Im still in the rough stage. I don't know what to really do with this scene. Lazzhar pretty much took the Idea.

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4796/trialal3.th.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trialal3.jpg)

07-23-2007, 02:54 PM
Hi, I'd like feedback on whether the color choices are effective. Green can look sickly and cold while warmer colors are usually more appealing, but I decided that my LEET (you misspelled "1337', by the way :D) liquid would be a high tech chemical blue listerine/scope color, and then worked with that. So all the lights are tending to blue and green to make it look good while making the orange and brown BrandX bottle look ugly and sickly green. Is it working?

http://www.ribsngibs.com/images/LightingChallenges/BrandX/BrandXThumb1.jpg (http://www.ribsngibs.com/images/LightingChallenges/BrandX/BrandX1.jpg)

Shapes weren't quite working with the refraction I was trying to do, so the bottle, liquid, and "air" surface are all remodeled but almost exactly lined up with the original shape. Hope that's OK for the challenge.

Lit in Lightwave+FPrime.

07-23-2007, 03:12 PM
railsplitter - That's off to a good start, it looks clean and classy. The colors look good. The bottom of the Leet bottle cap could get some nice Leet-colored bounce light, and maybe some colored caustics or something could even hit the lower part of the Brand X bottle. The refraction is working for the Leet bottle, althought I don't see shadows through the refraction, like around the bottom of the image of the rear bottle. For the Brand X, the lower part especially looks like an opaque bottle, then the upper part has a little more of a clear bottle look.

doodlerboy - Good start. Maybe work on your composition a bit in terms of using the frame, you might extend the darker part of the background from just the upper left into more of a gradient through the whole shot, and make sure we can read the brands. The green colored bottlecap on the back one almost looks like it's glowing on its own. Maybe the front bottle could have the green shadow and the back one could have the darker shadow?


07-24-2007, 04:15 AM
Hello everyone,

Here is my first try.. (and my first message I guess)

I ve spent couple of hours in order to get the idea of caustics. Actually, I would like to get much more caustics effects, but I could not find a way for now : )

I ve used a spot light, which only spreads photons and I have an infinite light. I ve used a constant sphere for the final gather.

I d like to get feedback (and help of course) about the caustics, and the "glassy" look of the objects.

Please feel free to comment and ask anything..

Thanks in advance,



07-24-2007, 05:34 AM
Hi there, I am back... :)

Great chalenge, great entry's. Good to see that Jeremy still leads this chalenges, and that all the time he give us a very good advises on renders and lightning. Respect.

Here is my entry...

07-24-2007, 06:12 AM
I've got problem with downloading site - didn't open....

07-24-2007, 07:41 AM
cant download the model ....

07-24-2007, 08:57 AM
Hi .. nice to have u back Jeremy.. :D
heres my try im missing some DoF for the moment also i dont wanted to be neither to bright or dark something in between // feel free to comment :applause:

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1417/brandxoccnewhz8.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brandxoccnewhz8.jpg)


07-24-2007, 10:15 AM
Hey all.
Lots of very nice entries already.
This is my first time posting in any challenge whatsoever.

Anyway here's my contribution:


Done using Maya and mentalray.
I guess I may change the liquid colours.
Please feel free to criticize it to death! :thumbsup:

07-24-2007, 01:54 PM
madmar - That's a good basic concept. I'm not sure what software you're using (is it 3DS Max?) but if you have specific questions post them here or in the forum for your software and I'm sure someone can tackle them. The Brand X bottle doesn't cast much of a shadow, but there's some kind of shadow to the lower right of it that comes from nowhere. The Leet bottle has a lot of black in it, where I'd expect bounce light on the lower surfaces and some extra environment in the refraction.

d4rk3lf - Great job! You really captured the feeling of jealousy on the part of Brand X. I wonder if it could be taken further, more figures worshipping and fondling the Leet, the camera swung to the left so the Leet is bigger in frame? Just an idea. I'll have to check whether the normals are flipped on the lower part of the dispenser in some of the exported file formats.

Labad85 & KIDI - Sorry if you had trouble downloading or there was an outage. Please try again, the site (http://www.3drender.com/challenges/index.htm) seems to be working fine.

Leotril - Good start. Maybe some caustics and more light on the Leet liquid and some softer shadows would all build from here.

pap87 - Welcome! That's a good start. I'd like to see more color carrying into the white ground underneath them, as I think it would in real life. I like the chrome look for the dispenser and cap, it makes the product look classy and expensive.


07-24-2007, 05:13 PM
ok.. So Far...
Just a "White Lights" Rig...
I'm using GI/FG/AO and outputting some frame buffers... I have a draft comp putting it togather.
Next step is the shaders
I'm planing to put a slogan in the upper right (that's why the composition looks unbalanced for now)

all C&C are welcomed!!
Hey, Are the Rim Lights on Leet way too bright??



07-24-2007, 05:34 PM
Hey all.
Lots of very nice entries already.
This is my first time posting in any challenge whatsoever.

Anyway here's my contribution:

Done using Maya and mentalray.
I guess I may change the liquid colours.
Please feel free to criticize it to death! :thumbsup:

Looks great.
I'd try to desaturate the red of BrandX because it's jumping up distracting the viewer who is supposed to be attracted by the other one.
For the grainy blur caused be the depth of field -which my render is suffering from, you could use the al_DOf_lens_plus shader to get smooth results.

07-24-2007, 05:40 PM
MinaRagaie beautiful rendering.
I think you are right. The light in the left is not working as a proper rim light. Maybe you could try to push it more behind the bottle?
And there is something bizarre a bit in the composition. Thinking about the product as a character, it would be more itneresting -I guess-if it looks right to the negative space rather than looking left outside the frame? Does this ring a bell?
Good luck every one.

doodlerboy as I already explained to you in PM it's just a basic volumetric shader I used in my rendering.

07-24-2007, 06:44 PM
d4rk3lf- I think you should either swap the two bottles, leet in front and the other in back. Or Blur leet a little. OR you could Blur Brand X a little. I don't know just a thought.

07-24-2007, 08:20 PM
MinaRagaie beautiful rendering.
I think you are right. The light in the left is not working as a proper rim light. Maybe you could try to push it more behind the bottle?

Thx for the feedback Lazzhar,
what about the right one, do I need to push it more behind the bottle too??

Thinking about the product as a character, it would be more itneresting -I guess-if it looks right to the negative space rather than looking left outside the frame? Does this ring a bell?

This doesn't just ring a bell, actually it brought to my mind a couple of pictures from Jeremy's book. I bet you know them ;)

as for the composition... there's supposed to be a slogan (in 2d) at the upper right side of the frame. that way the BrandX bottle will be looking at Leet's Slogan and leet would be standing "care free" looking "Proudly the other way...
I'll include that in the next update, then you can tell me if the composition is working for you or not :)

BTW I checked your Demo Reel, Nice work:thumbsup:


07-24-2007, 08:36 PM
Hey, Are the Rim Lights on Leet way too bright??

Yes, I think so - they are going way overrange and clipping over large areas. However, before tweaking it too much I'd recommend finishing the shaders first. If you decide to make your bottle and liquid transparent and drop the diffuse a lot the rim lights might end up being just fine.

07-24-2007, 08:57 PM
railsplitter - That's off to a good start, it looks clean and classy. The colors look good. The bottom of the Leet bottle cap could get some nice Leet-colored bounce light, and maybe some colored caustics or something could even hit the lower part of the Brand X bottle. The refraction is working for the Leet bottle, althought I don't see shadows through the refraction, like around the bottom of the image of the rear bottle. For the Brand X, the lower part especially looks like an opaque bottle, then the upper part has a little more of a clear bottle look.

Thanks. All the bounce in this shot is coming from radiosity, but the multiple transparent surfaces of the bottle and liquid are confusing it and blocking all the up light on both the caps, so I'll fake something in there instead. RE: the shadows through the refraction; believe it or not they are there - the bottles are almost lined up in the direction of the light (a necessity since the BrandX bottle is in Leet's shadow) so in the image of the BrandX bottle in the refraction of the Leet bottle, the shadow is almost directly behind the BrandX bottle (easiest to see in the far upper right corner of the Leet bottle). Again, I may cheat something to make it look less weird, but it's not bothering me as much as the fact that the BrandX bottle is just entirely too weird looking. It's supposed to look bad, but not weird and confusingly CG. I think I made some bad shader decisions.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to get a new version in a day or two...

07-24-2007, 10:46 PM
This is my first ever lightning challenge and i have a very little knowlage about lightning, so i did this for fun. Fell free to criticise me a lot. It took me about 3 hours to render this...

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1674/cgtalkleetlightningchalzx6.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cgtalkleetlightningchalzx6.jpg)

07-25-2007, 12:10 AM
Hi everyone

Nice challenge Mr.Jeremy

Great work My brother Lazzhar you are the best:thumbsup:

And My brother MinaRagaie that's very very great work:thumbsup:

And this is my image


07-25-2007, 02:39 AM
Are we allowed to change the label colours or design in any way?

07-25-2007, 04:35 AM
madmar - That's a good basic concept. I'm not sure what software you're using (is it 3DS Max?) but if you have specific questions post them here or in the forum for your software and I'm sure someone can tackle them. The Brand X bottle doesn't cast much of a shadow, but there's some kind of shadow to the lower right of it that comes from nowhere. The Leet bottle has a lot of black in it, where I'd expect bounce light on the lower surfaces and some extra environment in the refraction.


Thanks Jeremy for your comments..
I am using XSI and mental ray to render.

Alright, here is my second try . I ve tried to fix the shadows, and managed to increase caustics effects.

Actually I would like to put some reflections on the bottles. But first, I will try the basic reflection and if I can find time, I will try to use HDR images..

And as far as I ve seen, there are some low res shadows and the brandx bottle is not good as I want.

As always, C&C s are welcome.




07-25-2007, 07:48 AM
Hey again.
Here's my second attempt:


I couldn't get any lightbleeding to work so I went for a blurry reflective surface instead.

For the grainy blur caused be the depth of field -which my render is suffering from, you could use the al_DOf_lens_plus shader to get smooth results.

Actually the graininess is mostly from the DGS material. It'll go away when I further increase the samples. But where can I get this lens shader you al_DOF_lens_plus shader from?

07-25-2007, 08:05 AM
The site where the models are hosted must be down, I get a timeout when trying to get to it.

Can someone look into this, I was hoping to participate in this one.


07-25-2007, 03:02 PM
AndrewMarch - It's up and running now if you can try again.

Thanks to mesutcapkin there's now a Cinema 4D version as well.

pap87 - That's a nice image. I wish you could favor the Leet more, maybe the Leet casts the bright blue caustics and the Brand X casts only a dark shadow? Something should make it clear that Leet is the better one, the focus and size in frame are a good start but I think something in the lighting could indicate the preference as well. Feel free to change whatever you want about the scene in order to get your point across.

madmar - Especially if you are using XSI, I think you could get nicer caustics from the Leet bottle, and soften the shadows. Maybe the label doesn't need to cast shadows or at least not block the light so much. I think the label texture isn't mapped accurately to the Leet label, the white border doesn't seem to be a consistent width all the way through.

Kain-Hazem - Welcome. That's a good quality render. Maybe you can keep working and add caustics, and think about other ways to show that Leet is better than Brand X.

DarkNemos - Nice image. The bottles appear to be floating above the ground. I like the metalic look, but it seems strange that the top of the bottle right above the fluid levels is metalic, then the rest is plastic?

MinaRagaie - That's a nice image. Bright rim/kick lights are no necessarily a bad thing, if they are a part of how you are highlighting the product. Keep going with your concept.


07-25-2007, 04:19 PM
Thanks for the feedback; here's my second image.


Added bounce lights on both bottle caps. It might be too bright on the Leet bottle but I think it looks OK.
Added caustics.
Moved BrandX bottle slightly away from Leet to get rid of a weird tangent and also to expose the edge of the reflection of the backing in the bottle to make it less confusing.
Some blur in the refraction.
DOF to put BrandX subtly out of focus.
Cheated index of refraction of the leet liquid to make the image of the BrandX bottle less bizarre.
Texture changes to BrandX liquid and plastic to make it also less weirdly CG blurry.


07-25-2007, 05:18 PM
Here is my first setup on this one, still have to smooth out some geometry and fine tune the overall image before the final render.
3 lights used and no post.
C&C and suggestions are welcome!
Cheers everyone!


07-25-2007, 07:57 PM
Hello all,

I'm a newbie poster in this forum, so please don't be gentle. This is what I got done within my lunch hour. Currently playing around with the lighting before I figure out the best way to display the product. So, anywho tell me what ya'll thinks.

07-25-2007, 09:58 PM
Second try :wise: .. Experimenting with DoF on this one also some color correction and glow added in After Effects..

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9668/brandxdof1aiy2.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brandxdof1aiy2.jpg) http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3552/brandxdof1jf6.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brandxdof1jf6.jpg)

@Jeremy.. Thx for ur comments im trieng to work out the caustics pass i need to use Mr for that one and composite back .. hope u like the updates


07-25-2007, 10:05 PM
There's no Lightwave file to download. :(

Great entries so far though. :)

07-26-2007, 01:43 AM
There's no Lightwave file to download. :(

The OBJ file worked well enough in Lightwave for me...

07-26-2007, 03:03 AM
I need to losing the brightness of the Kicker light on the side. But I like the stage set up. Any other advice for the lighting? Could I add lights? Lose lights? Add a certain color tone? Etc...

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9923/trial2at3.th.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trial2at3.jpg)

07-26-2007, 03:05 AM
I don't get what's happening in your scene? lol, is the Bottle hanging it'self and the other bottles just watching it happen in the distance, or did it get kicked into the screen by the other bottle?

07-26-2007, 03:14 AM
I don't get what's happening in your scene? lol, is the Bottle hanging it'self and the other bottles just watching it happen in the distance, or did it get kicked into the screen by the other bottle?

Right now, I'm playing with the composition before I do my add on's. Kinda play with the scene until insperation hits me sort of thing. The inspiration that hit me is to place leet in a soap bubble floating in air. While brand X is left laying there on the ground. Going to try to place a pretty ladies reflection in the bubble.

But, since you mentioned hanging. I can alway put a noose on Brand X and hand him high. I would have leet wearing a white cowboy hat. :D

07-26-2007, 03:17 AM
I thought about putting a knoose in Brand X. I started it too and thought, nah. I went for the door slammed in the face ahaha. DO THE KNOOSE RAVEN EYE. I hear ya. It's hard to come up with an idea right off the bat. At least for me. Especially after you look at some of the ideas that were taking before you got the chance to do it. lol First come first serve I guess. haha

07-26-2007, 03:30 AM
Oh, you can do the noose idea. I don't have a model of a noose or a cowboy hat nor do I want to model those items. Modeling bubbles and bathroom tile is soo much easier.

07-26-2007, 05:23 AM
Great entries so far. So I'll also give it a try.
I thought I'd start with a not too complicated setup.
Like, a background lighting plus a "spot on"-lighting supported by DOF.

Here and there I changed the model a bit. For example, the bottles are only about half full. I took away a part of the ingredients to be able to see through the bottles.
The body part of the bottles have now a thickness of 0.2mm to avoid a massive-glass-block look. But i think it's still too thick, I guess I should make them even thinner.

This is what I come up with for the background:
Top light | top light + light from the right | top light + light from the right + light from the left.
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3329/overalllightingtophp5.th.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=overalllightingtophp5.jpg) http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7518/overalllightingtoprightfw0.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=overalllightingtoprightfw0.jpg) http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/4824/overalllightingfl0.th.jpg (http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=overalllightingfl0.jpg)

Now the foreground:
Back light | back light + left light | back light + left light + top light
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8522/spotonlightingbackim4.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spotonlightingbackim4.jpg) http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/6870/spotonlightingbackleftjs0.th.jpg (http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spotonlightingbackleftjs0.jpg) http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7649/spotonlightingxi2.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spotonlightingxi2.jpg)

So, together this would make my first try for this challenge look like this:

07-26-2007, 05:42 AM
here is my test run... I like the direction it's heading but I didn't spend enough time it yet, I hurried to get something on here today.

07-26-2007, 12:19 PM
railsplitter - Nice job! I was just going back and checking that the normals weren't reversed on the dispenser_base object, but I guess you just made those darker as a creative choice. Your lighting is nice and clean. I look at where there's space in the composition and I'd be interested to see what happened if you changed the key light angle so the brighter sharper light came from the left, then you could have the cool and warm caustics and shadows both extending into screen-left where it's white now. Just a thought.

60WE - Good start. I wonder if the camera angle could be more dramatic, maybe making the Leet look a little bigger and more heroic in frame?

RavenEye - Welcome! Keep going with developing your scene.

Leotril - I especially like the one on the left (where you see the full Leet label.) Maybe you could just work on getting rid of some of the hard lines that appear near the base and top in the refraction, and give it a little colored bounce onto the bottom of the dispenser so it doesn't go black there?

railsplitter & Animasta - This is an all-volunteer effort. I'd be happy to host a Lightwave version if one of you wants to send one to me. If you need FTP space then send me a PM and I'll give you details, if you already have a site then just make sure the Lightwave scene is well grouped, named, surface normals good, etc. and zip or rar the thing and send me the URL of where to get it.

Doodlerboy- Looking good. Nothing sells soap like a soap opera. Right now it looks as if Brand X is about to slam the door on Leet.

mesutcapkin - Good start. From looking at your break-down, it seems as if some of those single-light images are more powerful and dramatic by themselves. You might take just 1 back light, try it from a higher angle so it doesn't bottom-light so much of the dispenser, and work on really nice colored shadows or caustics with it. Then maybe only a tiny bit of rim or bounce to complete it, but not so many lights total.

metal0130- Welcome! That's a good start, keep going with your renders.


07-26-2007, 02:16 PM
Here it goes the first post from me. I trying to treat Leet and BrandX as if they are alive character. In this image, i am giving Leet longer and darker shadow as if he is bigger size and stronger; for BrandX is a timid, scare of evything type, no self confident, short coverage and lighter shadow is used...
I am not sure the way i transform characteristic of it into lighting is a right way ot not, but one thing for sure i am really enjoy and having fun when creating it. I am trying for caustic for it soon and still working on the shading .


07-26-2007, 03:06 PM
hi jeremy, nice concept here!

taking a look below, i tried to frame the attractive bottle in a standard type of product shot: even lighting, little to no shadowing, bright popping presentation coming from a strictly g.i. lighting.

for the loser in the bg, i went for a low-key (high-contrast) kinda rig, with an overhead negative light to darken it's surroundings.

the ground plane is evenly lit with an area light, tho the negative light has some influence.

the "caustics" under the hero bottle are actually a shader network and not caustics calculations at all :).

straight lightwave render using the native engine. i'll betchya some bloom or other improvements could easily be done in post, i'll wait to read the critiques.



07-26-2007, 04:41 PM
Hi Jeremy, thank you very much for your comments!
Here is a comparison between the old shot and the new one based on your suggestion. Some changes on ligthing and added a bit of coating to the Leet label. Probably the first lights setup was better in my opinion.
Looking forward to hear advices.


07-26-2007, 08:18 PM
Here is what I got done during lunch. Unfortunately I can only work on this during my lunch hours. By the time I get my food and eats it. There just isn't much time left. So anywho, here is to my WIP.

07-26-2007, 09:12 PM
Nice idea for a new challenge - I suspect that Brand X might end up being the (anti)hero here, that Leet character is just a bit too much of a smoothy...
Here's a first quick go at this, it'll be better when I've got some passes set up and some decent materials on the tiles and grout.

07-26-2007, 09:27 PM
hey! I though could join in on this challange :D cool renders btw. I tryed to make somthing abit diffrent, it wasnt easy and i am not sure how it turned out. My brother gave me the idea with the spider web that i thought was a cool idea :D


07-27-2007, 04:47 AM
NeBuLa : i like the idea of what using doing on it, especially on what you done to brandX. For Leet is cool also, but i guess need stronger light for it ( neon light thing there is bright), as now it look pale and fader. By the way, how you create those spiderweb for brandX? Do you mind telling it?

andystopps : The shading for brandx is really work, it look nice. Will the level of liquid in brandx a bit lower than Leet will help bring the mesage like "newcomer Leet is taking over BrandX"?

07-27-2007, 07:36 AM
Thanks titanwong31, The siderweb was a photograph that i edited into the image in photoshop. Yeah i think i am going to be working abit on the shading on the models and turn up the light strength on the neon light. Thanks for the feedback :)

Oh.. btw Render with mental ray in maya :scream:

07-27-2007, 03:27 PM
titanwong31 - Looking good! I agree caustics will add to it. Making the reflections on the ground softer (more blurry or glossy) would help a lot as well.

MooseDog - That's great. The BG guy looks like he's floating above his shadow, if that's his shadow below him. I can't tell now from the shading if the pump on the Leet bottle is supposed to be a very high-gloss plastic, or metal, or what, but maybe some work on the shader and texture there would help.

60WE - Composition is getting much better. Maybe the label shouldn't be so reflective, or could use a softer more blurred reflection than the bottle? The pedistal reminds me of a Chef's hat, but maybe I just have those on the brain after a year of lighting those.

RavenEye - Nice bubble element. I hope we'll be able to see the Leet product clearly.

andystopps - Nice shading difference! I think the fluid dripping out and on the floor by the Brand X looks too bright and glowy, if anything that liquid makes it look more attractive. Maybe something could be done to make the Leet look wet also, maybe like the clean kind of water droplets that appear all the time on soda cans in advertisements?

NeBuLa - That's great! The cobwebs are a nice touch. I love the look of the swirling light. Maybe the Leet bottle could be given a little more color and contrast, so the label and such pops out and doesn't look at all dusty. The lighting on top of the Brand X could be evened out a little, so there's less on the top of its pump, and a little more on the shoulders of the bottle, and that evenness would make it look more old and dusty.


PS - I'm off to Florida (http://fort-lauderdale.siggraph.org/) for the weekend. I think I still should find Internet access and post again from there.

07-27-2007, 11:29 PM
Here is another my attempt. :)
Is it better then previous?

07-28-2007, 09:14 AM
Here's my first shot on this challenge, coming along nicely, still got
some issues to fix but this is draft number one ;)

FG version:


07-28-2007, 12:46 PM
LOL, fun new challenge.

Altho my issue is that the "Brand X" label is actually better designed than the "LEET" one ;)


07-28-2007, 03:00 PM
Just playing withs lights for 3 hours. Maya softver , if I have more time I will go to mr and make same realistic renderers, but for know just this :)

07-28-2007, 04:27 PM
Jeremy, thx for your tips.

I tried and reduced the overall lights. Tried to get the foreground focused more.
Tend to play a bit with cool blue-ish and hot red-ish tones...
Let me know, if yout think that it's still too much...

I'm not satisfied with the refractive caustics really... as if it would think to itself "What the heck am I doing here...?".
Gotta think about a proper background... somthing wet-ish, bathroom-ish would be the first surrounding to think about, I guess.
Maybe I can collect some inspiration from fellow posters with their cool scenes :)


07-28-2007, 04:56 PM
Good stuff so far! :)

Thanks for the break up, mesutcapin. That's interesting stuff to study.

Beautiful lighting NeBuLa! :D

GoksiMaster, nice lightning effect, looks pretty cool.

I haven't tried any hdr on this yet, but it's allready costly when it comes to rendertime :/. Took about 38 mins.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5879/brandx01vg1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

07-28-2007, 08:44 PM
playing with 3delight

07-29-2007, 12:11 AM
this one is quite rough, i will work on the composition and the gobo light is not final too
hope u like it


07-29-2007, 06:21 AM
Ok has anybody messed with VRay yet? I can't get it to render at a 150 DPI Resolution. So this image is kinda low res. I tried to render it attribute on medium but it still renders as if it were on low. Meaning it's a low resolution all around. lol ALSO I need advice on what I can do about the image itself. Anyone wanna take the bat and swing it across my head? Anyone, anyone at all? lol

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4241/sarrived150zf1.th.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sarrived150zf1.jpg)

07-29-2007, 02:45 PM
there is my entry for this challenge. It is the first time i will participate in time ;)

I did it with lw9.2 this time, cause I were missing fprime :)


there is after being photoshoped :)

Comments welcome


07-29-2007, 03:50 PM
Just make the l33t more colorful and desaturate (black and white, or really faded colors) the other one. people are naturally drawn to the color. Makes it more interesting.

07-29-2007, 04:02 PM
there is my entry for this challenge. It is the first time i will participate in time ;)

I did it with lw9.2 this time, cause I were missing fprime :)


there is after being photoshoped :)

Comments welcome


Hi Kender,
it seems; I can't see your pic. Am I missing s.th.?

07-29-2007, 04:08 PM
Ok has anybody messed with VRay yet? I can't get it to render at a 150 DPI Resolution. So this image is kinda low res. I tried to render it attribute on medium but it still renders as if it were on low. Meaning it's a low resolution all around. lol ALSO I need advice on what I can do about the image itself. Anyone wanna take the bat and swing it across my head? Anyone, anyone at all? lol

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4241/sarrived150zf1.th.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sarrived150zf1.jpg)

Doodlerboy -

Nice picture. You need more poly subdivision on the Brand X bottle, the label looks faceted.

The resolution of the image you posted - over 1600 pixels across - is too high, not too low. Don't worry about DPI, because you can set that later before you print, but for this forum just try to post images that are maybe 700 or 1000 pixels across at the biggest.


07-29-2007, 04:23 PM
there are links :


Sorry, missed links I think

Chrizimer : I ll try your tips. Thx


07-29-2007, 04:29 PM
Fex - Nice job! Keep working on making making the Leet look really good. Maybe the label doesn't need to cast a shadow, or not such a hard-edged one. If you could make the raytraced shadows completely black then fill the shadow area in with colored caustics, that could look best and then the label shadow would realistically be distorted by the refraction.

Swag - Looks great! The edge-glow around the Leet looks strange, like maybe that fake DOF effect done in post?

jmBoekestein - That's great! Maybe the Leet could be more bright and cheerful with less black in it?

mesutcapkin - Looks good! I look forwards to seeing those new background too.


07-29-2007, 04:31 PM
Goksimaster -

Wow! That's really awsome! The only things I'd recommend are that more light from the lightening could illuminate the Leet bottle, creating some highlights, reflections, and a little more light on the Leet label. And the other thing is to make sure we can see the Brand X label clearly, right now it almost looks like it could be dominating other Leet bottles and the Brand X identity isn't clear for all the subserviant ones.


07-29-2007, 06:26 PM
Here is what I've tried making it.

07-29-2007, 07:12 PM
yes its all fake in post :)

here is something different

07-30-2007, 02:33 AM
visua (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=142184) - Nice job! Maybe the Brand X dispenser nozzle could be black instead of white so it doesn't blend with the background, and there could be less black in the reflective top of the Leet bottle?

MasterZap (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=5803) - Feel free to change the Brand X label to make it look worse if you need to.

mJunaidb (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=274054) - The spotlight coming from the top is nice, but the bottles appear to be lit from below. Especially the white plastic parts should be lit from above, maybe a nice rim on the top shoulders of the bottle?

swag (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=1986) - Nice job. Maybe a little less ambient/fill on the white plastic, so we could get some shaping (gradients that make it look round and directional.) Also, see if you can make the shadows much darker, and find a way to make Brand X look worse or more shadowy or something than the Leet.


07-30-2007, 02:44 AM
d4rk3lf -

That's really terrific! I love it!

If there's any room for improvement, I think the Leet label is a little too reflective, or at least the reflections could be softer, so we just see the clearly and brightly. I think the other bottles should be clearly Brand X. Right now one of the ones that's left on the ground looks like Leet, so you could maybe have more dead Brand X all looking like they were defeated by Leet, to make the point more clear.


07-30-2007, 11:09 AM
Well anothre attempt, :/.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/9494/testbrandx5vf8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm gonna take more liberty in next round methinks.

PS:I couldn't get rid of the dark splotches but made it a bit lighter.

07-30-2007, 12:37 PM
Here's my meager attempt....


"Notable" with it is that I try to be as physically real as possible, i.e. no "CG Cheats" like invisible light sources, non-area lights, lights that affect only one object*, or anything like that.

Nothing fancy, shader wise, pretty much mia_material (= A&D) for everything.

The only "cheat" is that the "Leet" liquied is actually made slightly self-illuminating to give it some punch.

And of course, I wasn't the "first" with the idea of the "depressed brand X bottle" approach....

I tried to go for a very shiny "Leet" bottle with a blue/green color scheme, and a "metallic" label, and for the "Brand X" bottle I made it much duller, and filled with some vaugely urine-colored murky ooze, and a "plain paper" label look.


(( * = I really hate those things, and IMHO they should be banned from anything than a "Stylistic" production, like "The Increadibles" or similar. I think "magic rim lighting", which may look so cute in a still, breaks down completely in motion. Most of the "Beowolf" trailer was killed due to the completely unrealistic "magic rim light" effect.))

07-30-2007, 01:22 PM
My third try.

Hopefully now the attention should go to the correct bottle as opposed to my last update where I reckon the brandx looked better than the leet.

Great work here from everyone!

07-30-2007, 05:55 PM
- jeremybirn

Thanks a lot for your comment. I've got the same complain from other people that the scene is not focused, now I've tryed to fix it.
How this looks?

If I have time, I will do a third render with a whole differend story...


07-30-2007, 07:45 PM
My shader on the Leet is reflecting too much I can't get it to shut up. lol I turned down the reflection alot and it looks the same. Using VRay Material. I'll change it next time, see if that works. I added more vertacies to the Brand X bottle making it look smoother. Thanks for the Idea Jeremy. I does look smoother.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/8624/sarrived3rdtrialcopyrm3.th.jpg (http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sarrived3rdtrialcopyrm3.jpg)

07-30-2007, 07:47 PM
this time with osme help from an HDR :D.

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/6084/testbrandx7hc0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

07-30-2007, 08:27 PM
Hi there!

Well, I wasn't able to post my image here, so this is the link to check it out!
hope you enjoy the splash!


07-30-2007, 10:14 PM
leet hold on - he is finished

jmBoekestein great on :thumbsup:

07-30-2007, 10:25 PM
hey cool render people! like the lighting in yours swag :)
thanks for the comment and thanks for the feedback Jeremy Birn i have made some changes, the garbage is just a concept idea :)http://www.thms-d.com/images/spider_web_Render_005.jpg

07-30-2007, 11:46 PM
I love the cobwebs. and the trash is a great add on.

07-31-2007, 12:44 PM
Doodlerboy - is the white block an actual reflection of the light or a specular highlight ? If the latter then turning off the specularity on the light might help if you can't get a good result from changing the settings in the shader. Of course this might mean you'd have to have a seperate specular-only light for any other surfaces it's illuminating. It looks good anyway, though maybe the door shouldn't be as far open, as if it had knocked poor old Brand X off his base and is bouncing back.
I took on board your suggestions, Titanwong and Jeremy, here's the latest in two versions, a straight single pass render:

and one where I've messed about with it in Shake; it seemed like a subject where a some cheesy lens flares were appropriate:

07-31-2007, 02:18 PM
Lots of nice renderings.
>Goksimaster : I like your idea and lighting, those two leet labels on the background too.

Here is my first try. The lighting idea came from a comperative advertisement
(liquor vs Coke) I found on the web.
Maybe it's too dark and doesn't match to this kind of products, but
hope it clearly shows the difference.

Any comments are welcome, thank you.

07-31-2007, 05:29 PM

This is my first try, Pls comment & guide.

07-31-2007, 05:47 PM
This is my first try, pls comment & guide!

07-31-2007, 06:40 PM
Welcome back everybody, I'm home from Florida. I'll try to catch up on this...


07-31-2007, 06:52 PM
MasterZap -

The Brand X with that magnificent metalic-coated dispenser pump looks better than any soap bottle I've ever bought. It looks like a golden ideal of a product, but I think if you could tone it down and make it look more like cheap soft plastic, then it wouldn't out-shine the Leet. The Brand X's cap looks better than the cap on the Leet, too, the Leet cap has a funny black area on it. I'm not sure about the "plaster" texture on the seamless wall, it might feel more natural if it just looked like paper and went to pure gray or white.

Don't be afraid to use cheats. Professional photographers working on advertising images are cheating like heck to deliver the images they create, and whatever can't be cheated in camera is fixed in Photoshop. Here's a great website showing side-by-side comparisons of advertising images against reality, this time using fast food items:


07-31-2007, 07:31 PM
pap87 - Looking good! See if you can get rid of the black bars on the sides of the Leet liquid. I love the soft blue light coming through the Leet onto the white floor. Maybe the Brand X could cast a shadow that also came forwards a bit, even though it was a dark shadow?

d4rk3lf - Great new concept. It looks a bit video-game-ish with the faceted edges to the Leet, it would look better with more polygon smoothing. Maybe more dead "Brand X" bottles could be strewn around, or that other Leet bottle standing on the sidelines could be on top of a Brand X???


07-31-2007, 07:31 PM
A more stylish approach:


07-31-2007, 07:32 PM
MasterZap -

The Brand X with that magnificent metalic-coated dispenser pump looks better than any soap bottle I've ever bought. It looks like a golden ideal of a product, but I think if you could tone it down and make it look more like cheap soft plastic, then it wouldn't out-shine the Leet.

Good point; I didn't spend more than a few seconds on the "cap" part of either so far.

Don't be afraid to use cheats. Professional photographers working on advertising images are cheating like heck to deliver the images they create, and whatever can't be cheated in camera is fixed in Photoshop.

I know, but you missed my point. I'd be all for doing any "photographers" cheat (i.e. the "in camera" variant), but I don't want to do any "computer graphics" cheat. It's not a matter of beign "afraid" to do it, it's a matter of being "tired" of doing it for years.

I want to do it the way a photographer do it, using their tricks (except the photoshop thing, like the oldschool photographer way).

Here's a great website showing side-by-side comparisons of advertising images against reality, this time using fast food items:


Yes, but again, I'm not interested in any "post" fixing in this case. This is a test for a specific purpouse (as always, I "use" your challenges as great tests ;) ) so I'm completely uninterested in any "traditional CG cheats", plus I'm really beginning to dislike most of them, as noted earlier. They have their place, but this isn't it, not now, not for me.


07-31-2007, 09:10 PM
doodlerboy - Make sure you test one surface at a time on the Leet bottle. Right now it looks like the bottle itself is green, but the liquid is another color? The green indirect light on the door, but not so much on the floor, also looks unnatural to me. Maybe the angular reflections in the Leet bottle come from too low a poly smoothing rate as well?

jmBoekestein - That's great! I love the close-up with the liquid and refraction in the Leet bottle. The Leet label looks a little bit faceted and the edges of the label don't look perfectly aligned with the geometry. If you're going to include that realistic background, you need to make sure the table in the foreground is textured and integrated really well, and the horizontals and verticals all match between the foreground and background.

swag - Nice shading. As with real wrestling, there's that ambiguity there on whether they are fighting or mating. In terms of making Brand X look bad, maybe the Leet could get hit with a little more of a kick from the upper left, and the Brand X could be stuck in more of a shadow?

NeBuLa - That's great! Could you do even more trash, so it comes all the way up to the middle comparison line between the halves of the image? I like the swirly thing above the Leet, but I really liked the version where it looked translucent and etherial, maybe you could soften the edges of it a little more? The Leet could be a little brighter and whiter in the center I think, to make the label read better.

andystopps - I love it! The bottles look like they are lit in-studio with nice soft-box style lighting. I hope you can get some nice soft shadows onto the ground from the bottles that keep-up that area-light look. Then two minor points (might just be Photoshoppable?): The fluid dripping out of Brand X looks bright right at the top where it's coming out, and could get darker there on contact. The hemisphere right below the top dispenser on the Leet has a similar problem, a big highlight that crashes right into the bottom of the dispenser, and doesn't integrate well with the reflection. Regarding the reflection in the back tile wall, maybe the foreground tile floor could be extended to the left and right, so we don't see the edges of it in reflection, and maybe a little more reflection of studio lighting could fit in, at least a well-placed rectangle of reflected light that accentuates the bottles?

CGmm - Welcome! That's a good start. As you saw in the print ad you mention, there's nothing wrong with keeping things simple if they are effective. I think the Leet bottle needs a little more bounce light, considering how much white there is underneath it.

Dipali - Welcome! What a great start! I love the light swirl. The composition is strong. Those dark, hard shadows are distracting. Maybe make the shadows much softer, and let the shadow of the Leet pick up the green color of the liquid.

visua - Looks good. I'm not sure what the black thing is in the lower left corner, but it would be good if you could get rid of it. I wonder if there is a way we could see the Brand X logo more, and maybe get some shadow or something from the Leet onto the Brand X?


07-31-2007, 09:32 PM
Dear Jeremy, that would be the dispenser-thingee? ;)

visua - Looks good. I'm not sure what the black thing is in the lower left corner, but it would be good if you could get rid of it. I wonder if there is a way we could see the Brand X logo more, and maybe get some shadow or something from the Leet onto the Brand X?


08-01-2007, 03:36 AM
Hi everyone,

Here is my third try..

I ve changed the concept and I ve tried something else in this one.

By the way, thank you Jeremy for your critics !.

As always, all C&C s are welcome.


PS: Sorry, I could not find to write any C&C s to anyone, I ll try to make it up for you.


08-01-2007, 04:24 AM
Thought I'd have a go too!

Mine actually needs to render much more (using Maxwell) but I decided to super de-noise what I had so far. It made it look a little... strange. :scream:


I should have made the back of the labels white because the BrandX bottles' liquid is heavily reflecting it's label, causing so much yellow! It's lit by a HDR image and I had to remodel some parts to make them more Maxwell friendly.


08-01-2007, 11:20 AM
Hello everyone,
Here is my first try..
I am using Softimage|XSI and Compositing , mental ray and Photshop.


all C&C are welcomed!!
Bassem Atef
CG Portfolio (http://bsbs.cgsociety.org/gallery/)
Demo Reel (http://files.filefront.com/Bassem_Promo_2007.mov/;8174185;/fileinfo.html)

08-01-2007, 11:17 PM
You just had to add the lense flare didn't you. lol. Just kidding. It looks great.

08-02-2007, 01:51 AM
BsBs - Nice work! You certainly are making the Leet look good. The other half of the challenge is to make the Brand X look bad in comparison. Right now I think the Brand X looks like just another flavor or variety of Leet, not really a comparison with an inferior product...

Jozvex - That's great! I think the Leet is looking good. The Brand X bottle has some edges that don't read very well, and would fade away even more if you are taking some of that yellow reflection out. Maybe some of that gunky liquid could be inside the neck of the bottle and help make parts of that opaque?

madmar - Nice job. I think the hard-edged shadow of the Brand X is distracting, especially because it looks like 2 shadows, a purple shadow and a shadow that's leaning forwards more. If you're going to make the ad look like a comparison between products, I'd like to see what you are going to say about the Brand X that drives home Leet being better.


08-02-2007, 06:56 AM
Dipali - Welcome! What a great start! I love the light swirl. The composition is strong. Those dark, hard shadows are distracting. Maybe make the shadows much softer, and let the shadow of the Leet pick up the green color of the liquid.

Thanx jeremy,
I'll work on the shadow part

08-02-2007, 10:32 AM
Hello everybody
I saw this forum 2 years ago, but I didn't dare to take part
I'm 18, working on Cinema4d, an already user of frenchcinema4d (http://www.frenchcinema4d.fr/forum/) :buttrock:where I'm known as alkodu57. (yes I'm french, so I apologize for my bad english
Since I'm pretty bad to light my scenes, other users advise me to show you my picture
I hope (and I'm sure) you'll give me some tips
Clic to see the whole picture

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/8387/savon2miniwp5.jpg (http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6265/savon2kn4.jpg)

08-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Gave them bottles some character:


08-02-2007, 08:30 PM
Jeremy - thanks for your comments, I've made a few little changes as you suggested, with softer shadows and a little retouching in Photoshop to remove the undesirable highlight from the Brand X drip, and extending the tiles to give a better reflection. I also put in an extra light so its reflection would be visible in the wall.

Alko-du-57 - That's a good start; the shadow around the Leet is a bit strange, as if the light that's casting it is very close to the spout. Maybe if you moved the light higher, and perhaps made the shadow more transparent it would look less harsh.

BsBs - Cool ! After 7 pages it was time for a re-branding excercise ! One thing , the grey band above the label looks as if it goes behind the pick-up tube inside the bottle.


08-03-2007, 12:55 AM
Jozvex - That's great! I think the Leet is looking good. The Brand X bottle has some edges that don't read very well, and would fade away even more if you are taking some of that yellow reflection out. Maybe some of that gunky liquid could be inside the neck of the bottle and help make parts of that opaque?


Mmm yes you're absosmurfly right. I have an updated render here that is much cleaner and better over all but the BrandX bottle could still be better. Thanks for the comments!

Haha, by the way I chose that font because the L looked a bit like the L from the Leet bottle. I don't feel very confident with placing text on an image to be honest, I don't have the greatest composition skills so I always feel a bit unsure.



08-03-2007, 12:47 PM
I got too much time on my hands... : .

another one:
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/8873/testbrandx8wz3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

08-03-2007, 12:59 PM
this is my first attempt posted here
made with C4D and photoshop

08-03-2007, 03:04 PM
Hi :)

My First Test Renders, With Cinema 4D R10

08-03-2007, 03:19 PM
Lookin good! I like the one in the middle the most, one thing that hits
me is that the red Brand X bottle tends to steal the attention from
the Leet one. And I would'nt put the DOF on the latter if you want it
in focus...

Hi :)

My First Test Renders, With Cinema 4D R10

08-03-2007, 03:53 PM
Hallo all!

Here is my new and improved version. It is still WIP i think, because it still doesnt have the "look" I want. But it is coming along. I decided to dump my old composition and try out some fluids, but I must admit - the ocean was imported from the visor and then modified further from there.. so it is not "entirely" my creation, but does look nothing like the way it imported...

let me know what you all think! If you like the composition I will stick with this one and keep working on it.


08-04-2007, 12:14 AM
jmBoekstein - the shaders on the bottles have a kind of '60s graphics look to them, how are you doing this?

Josvex - Love the slogan, can I suggest making your image a bit more tougher and contrasty, and maybe using a different, punchier typeface/colour/angle for the "No Scum Will Survive" strapline, because this is what has to jump out at you from the advert.

08-04-2007, 02:37 PM
hi all,
fixed the splotchy bg, did a small zoom in, fixed post dof problems... now iam going to make it look more intresting, my plan was throwing in a piece of satin or something smooth lookin to fill the empty part on the right.

c&c are welcome


08-04-2007, 03:40 PM
Alko-du-57 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=290148) - Welcome! That's a great image. Maybe the shadows are a bit hard-edged and could be softer, especially in the reflection in the bottom of the Leet bottle.

Fex - Nice job. One tiny issue is that the Brand X label doesn't appear to be attached to the bottle.

metal0130 - Great! I think the black part of the refraction in the Leet could be fixed if the environment had more sky colors wrapping all the way around.

badie (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=96884) - Looking good!

edjkodiak (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=172997) - Nice concept. The image quality could be better if you had softer shadows.

jmBoekestein (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=122290) - Nice job! The reflections and refraction look very high contrast now, and I'd like to see more about what makes Brand X bad and Leet good.

Jozvex (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=3127) - Great. The Leet looks really good. The Brand X might be too bright and colorful.

andystopps (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=84876) - Great job!

visua (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=142184) - Nice job!


08-04-2007, 07:24 PM
Hey Jeremy when are you going to put up a gallery for this challenge? I want to know so I can finish mine up in time to make the gallery. lol The shaders are getting hard to adjust but i'll get it.


08-04-2007, 09:59 PM
thx for your comment Jeremy, think i fixed it... added a piece of satin
any ideas are welcome:)


08-04-2007, 10:10 PM
Thx Jeremy

I did some changes :


08-05-2007, 12:48 PM
Playing with light and color, imho it's a bit plain any suggestions
to spice it up a tad?


08-05-2007, 02:20 PM
Greetings from Hermosa Beach! (on my way down to San Diego for SIGGRAPH...)

doodlerboy - I don't know.

Fex - The Leet bottle is beautiful. The satin could use more translucency or indirect light or something, where it goes blackish it looks too dark and opaque.

edjkodiak - That's great. I think you should focus on render quality, getting the shadow to fit with the bottom of the bottle, noise, etc. Maybe since the Leet is a clear bottle the Brand X could be a clear bottle, maybe with darker liquid?

visua - Nice, I think part of the reflection goes black and could have a more interesting environment around it, that might help with the color too. I'd like to see more purple caustics or something that looks like a purple glow of light that's come down through the Leet onto the Brand X.


08-05-2007, 05:15 PM
Thx Jeremy , My Renders still running :)
visua : Great Job
edjkodiak : Good Idea ;) focus on Quality's render
jmBoekestein : Wonderful Rendering

08-05-2007, 05:48 PM
All My Test Renders :)
I'am not Satisfied with results … but …

08-05-2007, 05:50 PM
:) Renders part 2
I used a Multilayeresd Shaders on Leet Label " Silver, Gold & Satin "

08-05-2007, 05:54 PM
Renders part 3 :)

08-05-2007, 05:56 PM
Renders part 4 :)

08-05-2007, 07:44 PM
@ badie: very nice compositions and renderings maybe u try something which isn't glass
or metal for the socket

thx Jeremy, the satin is better now i hope (used a bit of backscattering, lowered the occlussion).


08-05-2007, 09:16 PM
My entries :)

08-06-2007, 12:13 AM
Great entries everyone!
Here's mine.
I wanted to get caustics from the liquid onto the ground, but couldn't get it to work. Can anybody help me there? Any simple way to get caustics going in MR that you guys know about?



08-06-2007, 02:45 AM
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/79/brandhugoav9.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
Shot at 2007-08-05

08-06-2007, 06:41 AM
Tweaked the backdrop AGAIN, and some caustics:


08-06-2007, 10:31 PM
Hi..this is my vision of new Leet mark :)
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/4530/01eu5.th.jpg (http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01eu5.jpg)

08-06-2007, 10:50 PM
THX Fex, Beautifull Rendering & Composition ;)
U'l Right… I'll try some non transparent Shaders
Great Job Huv " The Best "
Visua " Wow "

08-07-2007, 05:42 AM
Used Max and mentalray 3.5 and DOF was done in post :


08-07-2007, 05:32 PM
Hello from the SIGGRAPH show floor. It's way too sunny in here to critique lighting on this laptop, but I just wanted to say "Great Job" -- it's terrific to see all this new work. I'll try to log on soon to catch up on here, maybe after the Softimage UG tonight.

I hope everyone gives everyone else some good feedback even when I'm being a flake.

If you're at SIGGRAPH, I'm doing a little talk at the Gnomon booth (927) today at 12.


08-07-2007, 06:19 PM
My new entry :)


08-07-2007, 09:48 PM
Part 5
With Cinema 4D R10.111 on Mac OSX

08-07-2007, 10:42 PM
Labad85, I like the composition in your shot, but I have a couple of suggestions for the lighting. Personally I would try to add more definition to the Brand X bottles. You may be able to use back or rim lighting to make their forms a little clearer, while retaining the overall dark look that you have. I also feel that the label on the Leet bottle is rather pale and washed out at the moment, so perhaps the glow effect on the Leet bottle would look better if it was a little less uniform, or was otherwise adjusted.

I'm not sure what direction I'll be taking my own image just yet (this is perhaps rather similar to my recent attempt on the kitchen scene), but anyway, here is my own first attempt. Rendered in Fprime 3 (Lightwave 9.2) using local illumination only:


08-08-2007, 12:18 AM
badie - renders part 4 - Those are great! I love the steps made of colored glass, they are classy and well rendered. It's probably an illusion, but on the first two images, the Leet seems to have an empty part at the bottom. I like aspects like the nossle materials in the last one, but I guess one with a brighter environment reads better.

Fex - Terrific! Maybe some of the whites are blown out or clipping - time to play with tone mapping, or maybe just turn down some of the lights?

Huv - Great work! I like the first one, with the transparent bottle. Probably Brand X should be transparent too if Leet is, and the Leet keeps looking better when transparent...

juansilva - That's great. I agree caustics on the ground would add to it, so would softer shadows. Maybe now it looks a little too Photoshopped. Based on the Leet as a light source, I wonder if the key direction could be switched on the Brand X, too?

Enriquegardo - Welcome! That's terrific! you really made another brand (Hugo Boss) look great. Maybe you can do the same for our clients Leet? :)

visua - Looking good!

Labad85 - Keep trying...

jigu - That's looking good. The fake DOF isn't really working, that's making weirdness around the edges of the products. Right now the products are looking good except for the metallic looking part near the tops of the bottles, in place of where you're supposed to see through the empty part.

More later, I'm really trying to keep up with these!


08-08-2007, 12:28 AM
d4rk3lf - That's great. I wonder if the refraction on the Brand X wouldn't make the green come closer to the edge of the bottle? The whole set-up looks good. I'm not sure we need the ? typed there.

badie - part 5 - Those are terrific! Maybe the highlights are clipping a bit much, but really those are amazing work.

Chrisdc - Looking good. Maybe the Leet could get more light and definition. It looks as if there's a "hole" in the bottom of the Leet, the way the ground color comes into the center of the bottom.


08-08-2007, 01:31 AM
Ok this is what I got so far. Im having troubles with the shaders and the lights keep sending off blue colors on the wall a llittle bit, But all my lights are linked to the point to where it shouldn't happen.


08-08-2007, 07:15 PM
So this is what I have so far. than the last one. I think it's different than the last one I made the bottle less grey.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3414/itsarrivedrough2ev4.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=itsarrivedrough2ev4.jpg)

08-08-2007, 07:30 PM
I wanted to attempt in LC since the 2nd one,

here are a couple of tries
3D software for model changes: Blender
renderer: Sunflow



currently low quality versions, will get better ...

what do you think fellas :D

08-08-2007, 10:07 PM
@badit: very nice composition and fabric is good too, maybe now glass bottles with liquid
would be sweet :)

thx Jeremy: u are absolutly right about those burnin n clamping whites,
think i busted them with tone map lens shader and in shake


08-09-2007, 12:37 PM
Hello, just a new french with a llittle work...


08-09-2007, 09:06 PM
Hi Jeremy,

Here's a new version with the corrections you suggested. I softened the shadows, made my key light for the brand x bottle a point light set where the Leet bottle is, and faked the caustics in photoshop 'cuz I still don't know how to get them to work in Mental Ray.

Please let me know if this is any better.


08-09-2007, 11:15 PM
more dynamic perspective, comp isn't final, refraction are a bit hefty on top of the bottles...

08-09-2007, 11:27 PM
doodlerboy - Still good. I don't really see any shadow or sense of contact between the bottle and the ground. Some previous versions had some green shadow there?

garphik - Good starts on those. There's a lot of black in the Leet, it would be nice if it didn't go so dark in the refractions. Your composition includes a lot of empty space around the bottles, maybe crop tighter?

Fex - Just saw your latest right above this one, and it looks terrific! The material looks like a sheet of plastic, maybe it you were trying for cloth you could reduce the spec.

kaliseb - Nice! I like the gel coming out and making shapes. I'm not clear that the Leet is doing something good, or that the Brand X is doing something bad, though. Maybe the fluids could look like different shapes or be different colors?

juansilva - Nice! I think you could go further with the directionality on the Brand X. On the Brand X bottle, it looks like the brightest edge is along the upper left, and it could be the right. On the Brand X cap, it looks like the brightest direction is in the center, and it could be more to the right.


08-10-2007, 04:53 AM
wow wow wow wow

08-10-2007, 05:15 AM
a new version...I added more light in the scene and it looks better (?)..

Chrisdc thank you for your advices - the label on Leet mark is washed out because of the glow effect but here I think it looks better. I will try more :)

I have to work on the brand x materials..

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/123/02ty8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And the newest version:
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1969/04vh8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
By labad (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/labad)

3d max 9 + vray

08-10-2007, 07:23 AM
Thank you for your answer Jeremybirn.

For me Leet is like a monster, he destroy all the other things. He eat them. So it's the strongest.

Sorry if I have no realy understand this work, I don't speak really goog english.

08-10-2007, 10:46 AM
Here is the one more. No time for DOF.

08-10-2007, 09:49 PM
now this a final comp killed all the small bugs :)
the piece of cloth is now mia architectural shader
before it was velvet and 3s shader mixed in shake (like caprinhia :scream:)

hope u like it cuz i do..

08-10-2007, 10:20 PM

I downloaded the obj file and opened it in Carrara. Decided though to see what I get done in Daz|Studio first so here is the D|S set up and render. Was aiming for the Leet bottle being the star with the light focused on it, but as it turned out it seems more like it is a kind of hero (hey who said there couldn't be any in their own little universe, heh). Two lights, spot fall out light and point light (I needed to light the floor a bit so I'm not sure if it works the way it turned out, it could be taken as a light source from the bottle itself). Took about 40 mins to render because there is a reflection in the Leet material and a bump and displacement added to the label and background.

08-10-2007, 11:58 PM
Hi everyone! Here's my try on this scene, comments are welcome!:)


08-11-2007, 02:15 AM
Alright I did what you suggested Jeremy, and I took out alot of the lights and focused on actually putting ones in that needed to be in there. I added and HDR Map in the scene as well. Still testing with the shaders, it's hard, cause if I give it too much reflectivity it looks bad of course so every time I turn the reflection down it gets worst and worst and worst. But I'll figure it out. Gave the Leet bottle a new Logo too, just for fun.


http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/452/leetdesignzx9.th.jpg (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leetdesignzx9.jpg)

08-11-2007, 04:22 AM
Ok this time I added an Occlusion pass over the top and than I added an image plane and put a picture on it that way the reflection on the bottles weren't picking up JUST the black space out side the scene. I need to brighting up the image alot I know that. But I added the caustics too it this time too.

I'd love to be smacked around more please hahaha seriously everyone beat me up here.


http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/594/leetdesignroughfinalbq5.th.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leetdesignroughfinalbq5.jpg)

08-12-2007, 02:02 AM
Ok this time I brighting it up a bit more

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7029/leetdesignroughfinal2fi9.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leetdesignroughfinal2fi9.jpg)

08-12-2007, 02:49 AM
Labad85 - Ouch, all those spikes are hurting my eyes!

jigu - Great! I think it's just a little too black in the upper clear parts.

Fex - Wow, I love it! Now that I look at the subtle story elements, you've really crafted something interesting there. I think the Leet is suposed to be the female, and the Brand X is the jilted male lover?

L33tace - Keep working. Maybe you can make the shadows softer.

pbalsic - Nice! Maybe that swirl object could have more ambient glow filling in its dark spots, and be a little less blown out in the highlights.

doodlerboy - Nice job!


08-12-2007, 12:26 PM
Thx Jeremy, didn't thought in this direction but thats such a cool interpretation :)
only wanted the bottles to be related to each other by having their heads pointing
in a line inside the picture to make the composition stronger...
Next time BrandX should bring her some roses:D

08-13-2007, 12:44 AM
I was going to try the scene next in Carrara, but here is another Daz|Studio render. I switched the point light to a spot light .http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Ecasstify/brand10.jpg

08-14-2007, 11:07 AM

I´m trying to import the 3ds-file into 3ds max 7 though it states "Improper file format". The FBX-file doesn´t work either, max 7 can´t handle a fbx 6.0.0 file (whatever this means). Can anyone help me out here? I´d like to participate. Thank you,


08-14-2007, 02:08 PM
L33tace - There's lots of ambient light there, try getting rid of all your lights except one main light to simplify, then work on getting softer more natural shadows.

mental|disease - I think the .obj should work.


08-14-2007, 02:13 PM
Thanks Jeremy, I found the new fbx-plugin a few minutes ago. Works like a charm now. =)


08-14-2007, 06:37 PM
Hello to everybody! after so much time as observer I've decided to take part on this challenge, as I thought it could be a good one to start in, and now I've got more free time.

Here you have a test render, obviously not a final one as I think it could be improved with your good welcome comments.



08-14-2007, 08:38 PM
I thought I'd "character-ize" these two...( seeing the preview here looks like there's a bit too much DOF-blur on BrandX )


08-14-2007, 10:45 PM
Hi there, this is my first attempt for this challenge with just the good guy for now the brand x is still in progress.
new ones

08-14-2007, 11:27 PM
Luis, your image asks for a login to your webspace. You should correct that.

This is my entry, I went for standard commercial shot.



08-14-2007, 11:59 PM
SpAiK - Welcome. I can't see any image at that link, please try again.

andystopps - Wow! That's awsome! I love it! A few small tweaks I'd suggest if you do another version: Try to turn the Leet bottle or label around so that we can read the Leet label. Get rid of the shadow/reflection or whatever that is to the right of the Leet, if you have something there at all it should be softer and more natural. The transparency effect on the bottle is working great on the Brand X, try to get the Leet's transparency working that well. Try to get more contrast and definition in the Leet's eyes, so their highlights go closer to the same tone as the highlight on the nose (which can be reduced), but the pupils go more black with less reflection on them. The Brand X's eyes are great with the low level of contrast they have now, don't change a thing about him. Maybe the snot from Brand X's nose could be darker right where it first comes out.

luistlf - Welcome. I can't see the image. Make sure your image link works for everyone, not just for yourself when you are logged into an account.

mental|disease - Nice. I'm not really seeing the trasparency of the bottles working, they just look like they have a different color at the top. Maybe the Brand X is a little overexposed.


08-15-2007, 01:43 PM
Ok, so here´s a second try. I added depth to the bottles, changed the IOR of the liquid drastically and removed that burn-out white on the BrandX bottle. I hope it looks better now.



08-15-2007, 04:14 PM
OK, the image problem resolved. Waiting for your coments, if I got some more time I'll go for a better result.

08-15-2007, 08:11 PM
This time i think there`s no problem with the linking of the images :bounce:

Most of the times we see the brand X almost just as “pretty” as the leet one so I decided a totally different concept. Hope you like.

Best regards.


08-16-2007, 01:20 AM
Hello to everybody! after so much time as observer I've decided to take part on this challenge, as I thought it could be a good one to start in, and now I've got more free time.

Here you have a test render, obviously not a final one as I think it could be improved with your good welcome comments.


Now that I can see it, that's a good start. For the Brand X, the fact that it's a dark bottle fading into a dark background might not be a problem, it's just not a product that stands out much. You might lower the brightness on the label and top also if that's the look. The Leet needs to stand out more. Maybe some rim or kick lights on the Leet bottle would help it pop out and look distinguished, either that or some rectangular reflections on the sides.


08-16-2007, 08:50 PM
Jeremy - thanks for your comments, I've done a few tweaks to address the points you mentioned, and done matte-isolate passes to seperate the DOF effect ( done using a depth pass ) from the characters.
Luistif - nice idea making the BrandX dull and grey. It's understated but gets the idea across.


08-17-2007, 12:24 AM
this is probably somewhere in between the other two. used a light set from Studio Light PRO for D|S with adjustments. thanks.

08-17-2007, 02:31 PM
Another try. Now added back and right lights, and changed Leet color to a more contrasted one. Still in progress.


08-18-2007, 12:29 PM
Thx Jeremy ;)
My Last Render tests, with differents Lights … Different Texture for Satin …

08-18-2007, 06:06 PM
luistlf - Nice job! I like the middle one best.

andystopps - Great! The eyes on the Leet could still probably be more readable. Try to make sure the eye white is really white, not part dark gray, and the pupil is really black without highlights. Maybe the highlights overall are a little too big and bright on his upper body? The liquid looks a little bump mapped or otherwise has some dark pattern etched into it.

L33tace - The Leet looks too blown out. If you want to make it look like the Leet is glowing on its own, then maybe some yellow light from it should be illuminating the environment and the Brand X bottle?

SpAiK - Looking good. It seems a little underexposed (check the histogram or levels in Photoshop). Maybe the Leet could use some rim light on the left side, too?

badie - Those are great! The fabric looks good from a distance, but the embossed gold looks too bump mapped. Maybe you could make the pattern smaller and tone down the bump? The blurring on the background looks really fake. Maybe you could make it more consistent, or use real DOF?


08-19-2007, 12:39 PM
Jeremy: Thanks for All U'r Advices, I make new Texture of Satin…
My Last Renders

08-20-2007, 04:37 AM
badie -

Congratulations, those look terrific!

Fabric is really, really hard to get right. Bump mapping certainly doesn't work very well for it.


08-20-2007, 04:40 AM
I have played with the scene and come up with a test. A few little glitches to work out maybe but at least a start for tonight. Rendering in MR with Maya.



08-20-2007, 07:41 AM
Ahh lame now we have to compete against Jeremy Birns, the Legend, on the Brand X challenge hahaha jk. I like it, good start.

08-20-2007, 06:21 PM
Hello, I've been finding this challenge quite tricky, so I've stuck with something quite simple for the time being:

Rendered in Lightwave using Final Gather. Thanks for all comments,


08-20-2007, 07:15 PM
Played with the scene you say...that`s a great start, the little roll gives it a very nice composition.


08-20-2007, 11:25 PM
L33tace - The Leet looks too blown out. If you want to make it look like the Leet is glowing on its own, then maybe some yellow light from it should be illuminating the environment and the Brand X bottle?

Hi, yeah that light set seemed to have washed out the material in the Leet bottle. I'll try another light setting in Daz|Studio.

In the meantime, here is a Carrara render, probably too much on the caustics?


08-21-2007, 03:27 AM
Jeremy: Thank you for all your comments, I have to test,
to create something simple, to play with camera, with
textures & lights, transparencies, fabrics, satin…

08-21-2007, 11:00 AM
next :)

08-21-2007, 11:01 AM
next ;)

08-22-2007, 02:23 AM
Hey everyone. Got in this one late. I know we were supposed to make Leet look better than Brand X, but I figured that poor bastard has already taken enough abuse. Anyway, let me know what you think.


08-22-2007, 02:53 AM
PDuff - Wonderful idea for a product shot. I think you could work Brand X in there somehow. I think you could do more with the idea that the bottle is clear plastic, and there's liquid inside the bottle. I guess the angle of the liquid surface would change in this situation, unless you think that's too much modeling work for a lighting challenge?

badie - I'm looking at the brightness on the Leet itself, and it seems that the Leet's reflection of the shelf it sits on is the brightest part, more than the highlights from the top. Is it possible that there's a light that's in shadow in that area, but doesn't have a high enough ray depth limit (or enough shadows in your render settings) to let us see the reflection of the shadow?

L33tace - If the "caustics" are what's making the bottom of the bottle glow in orange, then yes there are too much. See if you can get more directionality in the lighting on the Leet, so one side is brighter than the other, or we otherwise can see which way the light's coming from. That environment looks very uniformly lit and might look nicer if the lighting were more selective, maybe only bright near the Leet and not as bright far away from it.

Chrisdc - There's nothing wrong with "simple." Often a simple approach makes the best product shot. The image looks a little underexposed now, and I think you need more subdivision steps on the Leet bottle to make it look good, especially at the bottom.


08-22-2007, 12:43 PM
hi all,

trying out the challenge

here it is .




cant deside on the two .


08-22-2007, 01:45 PM
Jeremy - thanks for your comments


using Softimage|XSI and Compositing , mental ray and Photshop.

all C&C are welcomed!!
Bassem Atef
CG Portfolio (http://bsbs.cgsociety.org/gallery/)
Demo Reel (http://files.filefront.com/Bassem_Promo_2007.mov/;8174185;/fileinfo.html)

08-22-2007, 02:44 PM
BsBs - That's great! I don't know what "The Tradition Warns" means, it sounds like a threat. The Leet does look terrific. I wonder if all it's shadows should have the blue color in them, instead of just one blue shadow, one black shadow?

weng888 - Wonderful! I think the lower one (with the volumetric fog overhead) makes the point even clearer. Maybe the highlight on the front of the Leet is too big and overexposed, and for a back-lit look maybe more rim or kick light would make sense on it?


08-22-2007, 05:57 PM
jeremy ,

thanks for the c&c , two images for the update , added some rims and bounce light on the cover from the green substance of the leet .

but still cant decide on the strength of the rim so two images again .

thanks again



stronger rims


08-23-2007, 12:58 AM
I want to do a tiled floor and I don't want to use a bump map cause it looks too ugly, how do I mess with displacement mapping? I How do I control how much is displace and how much isn't etc. Take BADIT for example, how'd he get those bumps in his silk drape?

08-23-2007, 01:49 AM
weng888 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=273645) vbmenu_register("postmenu_4603368", true); -

Strong rims are nice, but you don't need that hot a highlight on the front of the bottle, or so much of a highlight on the side.

For the plastic caps, maybe the Leet's cap could go a bit brighter, but the cap on the top of the Brand X is way too bright in the background, especially for things that are supposed to be back-lit. Try to get rid of the black stripes on the Leet's dispenser, and fix the black halo (looks like a compositing error) around the top of the Brand X dispenser.

Maybe the color-filtering effect of the transparent Leet liquid is a little too perfect, because it makes the Brand X behind it look green, not yellow, so it looks like there might be more Leet in the background.


08-23-2007, 06:54 AM
hi jeremy ,

thanks again for the c&c . here is the updates

update on the bottles .
specular highlights minimized , brand x cover toned down , leet cover brightened eliminated the strip . brand x logo on the bottle behind leet to differentshade . i cant seem to get the yellow color pass the leet green color filter .


added volumetric on the front and back for depth


or Stronger volumetric in front and back


thanks again

08-23-2007, 07:06 AM
I tried to setup a quick photorealistic studio-like picture.

It's far from being perfect but I don't have the time to improve it right now.

(3ds max + Vray)

here is my attempt:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9426/leet2ma8.th.png (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leetrf8.png)

08-23-2007, 08:08 AM
It's not that hard to actually model tiles is it? ;)

I want to do a tiled floor and I don't want to use a bump map cause it looks too ugly, how do I mess with displacement mapping? I How do I control how much is displace and how much isn't etc. Take BADIT for example, how'd he get those bumps in his silk drape?

08-23-2007, 11:54 AM
ulb - Nice job! If there were a little more difference in the lighting on the Leet compared to the Brand X, it might do more to show Leet being good and Brand X bad.

weng888 - Looking good! I like the top one, with the most contrast in the sky. You could call yourself done with this. If you're doing another pass anyway, the Brand X bottle on the far left bothers me: It doesn't seem to cast a shadow, and it goes from dark to blown-out in tones. Hiding that bottle or toning down its glow and fixing the shadow.


08-23-2007, 12:01 PM
The last one I posted was a little dull, so I did a test with added water droplets and DOF:


Mental Ray renders refraction completely differently when DOF is turned on compared to when it's off. I had to scale the liquid bigger inside the bottle because the kind of refraction MR uses when DOF is turned on exaggerated the gap between the outer plastic and the liquid. Rendering with DOF took forever and a day (and I'm only exaggerating about the forever part), and made it hard to see the "crying" type water droplet on the Brand X, so I turned DOF off again. The next version prunes out the droplets and adds a little more color to the scene:



08-23-2007, 03:54 PM
Hello again! Thanks Jeremy for your comments, I'm learning a lot from this and other challenges (also from your book :thumbsup:).

badie I like so much your images, very good looking fabric.

Well, here is another image, now with some glow to stand out Leet bottle and brightened a little.


08-23-2007, 06:00 PM
my last tests, I have to try to return to the Transparents bottles
, but the composition of the image misses
of balance and presence…

08-23-2007, 06:04 PM
next part2

08-23-2007, 06:06 PM
Part 3

08-23-2007, 07:39 PM
Doodlerboy - you don't say what your software you're using, I seem to remember from your previous posts that you're a Maya man, in which case you connect a displacement node to the shading group of your object and control the amount of displacement from the alpha gain ( in the colour balance section of the attribute editor for your map ). You'll also have to mess about with the displacement settings in the attribute editor for the object in question.
If you're using XSI, you just connect your map directly to the displacement port of the material, via an intensity node to control the amount of displacement. You may also need to make some adjustments in the Displacement tab of the Geometry Approximation PPG.
All that said, for something quite simple and regular like tiling, it might be easier, and render quicker, modelling the actual geometry ( which approach I favoured for this particular challenge ).

Great stuff everyone, btw.

08-24-2007, 04:23 AM
hi jeremy ,

again thanks for the c &c , heres my updates . toned down the glow on the bottle on the far left bottle and increased visibility on the shadow .


thanks again .

08-24-2007, 03:10 PM
Ah its nice to be back in the CG Society... So.. I guess its my turn


I thought... what makes an original brand original? I think its the fact that there are similar brands or copies of the product..

Made with Blender .44 + ZBrush

08-24-2007, 03:17 PM
SpAiK - Try to use rim lights and kick lights to highlight the Leet, instead of the glow effect. The glow looks very 2D and appears brighter than parts of the Leet that it surrounds. After you nail the lighting, a little bit of a glow might be more organically integrated, but try the lighting approach first.

badie - Great job! Should I assume the last one posted is your favorite? (Otherwise I'm going to have a hard time choosing which of your images to put in the gallery...)

weng888 - Nice job!


08-24-2007, 04:57 PM
jeremy ,

thanks :)

08-25-2007, 08:33 AM
Thanks Jeremy for the comment.
It's been already 3weeks though, here is my second version.
Only small changes, but added reflections, indirect illumination,
and better looking shaders.

It's hard to get the right color balance I want, without correcting in photoshop.
I hope it looks better now.
Any comments are welcome, thanks.

08-25-2007, 12:22 PM
I changed some things. Its mostly the light and background...


08-25-2007, 01:41 PM
for this rendering I used Maya and Mental Ray with the mia_material.


08-25-2007, 03:08 PM
austriangeek - It looks like your message is that Brand X is really just Leet with a different label, so maybe there's no reason to pay extra for genuine Leet? If you had a Brand X with its label falling off to reveal something bad, like a rat poison label, that would be different. The soft reflections really need more sampling.

CGmm - That's a nice, clean product shot.

Littleluk - Nice images. I think the one really hard-edged shadow needs to be softened a bit.


08-25-2007, 03:38 PM
austriangeek - It looks like your message is that Brand X is really just Leet with a different label[...]

Actually my message is that there might be many copies of our leet product out there but non of these are the original brand...

Your're definitly right.. it would have made more sense if I just changed the textures but that would have looked like that leet is just anothe BrandX Product with just a better logo but inside its the same. And I tried to avoid that.

Well but I'll work on that maybe I'll find a way to show my message without confusions..

Thanks jeremy!

08-25-2007, 07:15 PM
Austriangeek - difficult one getting the message right - I guess ad-agencies would say that's why they need to charge such high fees...apart from that I really like the heroic look. It would be better though to have the back of the BrandX label white rather than repeating the image on the front.

I had a final go at this to fix the things you mentioned, Jeremy. I'm still not wholly satisfied with the condensation on the Leet bottle, it looks a bit strange next to the label. Ah well...


08-25-2007, 09:54 PM
Thanks for your suggestions Andy..

Second update.. Changed the floor and some other details... nothing that would solve the message problem yet.. but Im working on it..

Rendering time for this one: ~50min.. the others took about a minute


08-26-2007, 03:46 PM
austriangeek - Keep going with that. The text could be more readable if it were 2D. You might try a different backdrop/environment, nothing makes computer graphics look "historical" like the grid pattern and a proceedural starfield.

andystopps - Terrific! That issue (some animation directors call it "eye readability") is one of those things that's been drilled into me that you have to get working well on any animated character, so even though it was a small thing I'm glad you found the time to get it right.


08-26-2007, 05:12 PM
Another one from me. This time I textured the Brand X a bit:



08-26-2007, 06:07 PM
Thanks Jeremy, that's a really good tip.

08-26-2007, 06:30 PM
used c4d


http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4113/finalseifewr4.th.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalseifewr4.jpg)

08-26-2007, 07:24 PM
Koka: Why is the better product blur'ed out?

Thanks jeremy. You're right.. it looked very 1990.. so I chaged the color set and added the text in PS..

I'm not so sure about the small black text on either side. Does that look good?


08-26-2007, 07:56 PM
jeremybirn: great compositon, I especially like the dirty one. The plastic top looks very old, almost like you forgot to apply a material to it. Maybe not that much specularity and a bit more reflection? Have you been using Final Gather for that shot?

By the way, which hard edged shadow have you been talking about?

koka: Nice rendering, although the shadows could migrate smoother. How many lights did you use?

08-27-2007, 12:27 AM
Alright, finally finished the Leet Bottle. I brightened up the scene a bit more and added an occlusion pass to make it look like it was touching the ground like you said Jeremy. Thanks for the advice and getting me through this.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2299/itsfinallyarrivedlh0.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=itsfinallyarrivedlh0.jpg)

08-27-2007, 09:03 PM
My last Renders, a More luminous Environment,
otherwise than Obscure Light/…
Opaque liquid or Transparency… Opaque bottle or
Transparency…, Crystal or simple Plastic, I'm waiting of a Mac version of VRay for Cinema4D to be able to test these scenes “at least a demo version”
I realized that the Bottle Missed thikness… that comes certainly from modeling…
so, Transparent materials lack of réalism…
but I do not have any more time of remodeling it …

08-27-2007, 11:11 PM
Koka - Good start. Maybe you could switch the labels, to make it clear that Leet is the good one and Brand X is the bad one?[/url]

austriangeek - That's showing improvement. Flip through a magazine or newspaper and study the typography in the ads if you want inspiration for how the text could look.

Littleluk - Thanks for the feedback! I should work on that plastic shader on the tops of the bottles. The hard-edge shadow I mentioned (in [url="http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8420/finalpo0.jpg"]this image (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=276756)) runs from the lower left corner of the Brand X to the right near the bottom of the Leet.

doodlerboy - Nice job! The motion blur looks a little fake, but things like that are sometimes stylized-looking in real print ads as well...

badie - Great! More beautiful images! I like the "luminous" looking cloth material. In some of them, both Brand X and the Leet look good, without a very clear indication that Leet is supposed to be the only good one. Even though the Leet is up high, Brand X almost looks like it could be another member of the same product-line. Maybe the Brand X could be less favorably lit? The letter L in the Leet label is going yellow in these latest ones, maybe since Leet is so terrific, it could be the Brand X that has the harsh reflections on it, not the Leet?


08-28-2007, 12:05 AM
Awesome thanks for the feedback. What would you suggest I do instead of a blur? Should I just take it out? or do you think it looks fine the way it is?


08-28-2007, 03:17 AM
Awesome thanks for the feedback. What would you suggest I do instead of a blur? Should I just take it out? or do you think it looks fine the way it is?

If I were you, I'd just stop now and let me put your image into the gallery as-is. You could get the motion blur looking a little different, but there are probably better uses of your time: Maybe have a beer to congratulate yourself on making a nice image? Start another challenge you haven't done yet?

BTW, Anthony, I appreciate your dedication to this, and it's great to see the progress that you are making in your craft. It's the people who remain really focused and have the patience to keep re-doing things until they really work that go the furthest in the industry.



08-28-2007, 01:35 PM
There is great pictures. Congratulations.
Here is my modest participation. Realized with Cinema4D and Zblur.


08-29-2007, 12:23 AM
Thanks Jeremy, I really appreciate your comments. Im working on the Fruit bowl right now in Maya instead of Max, I like to keep my skills with both softwares balanced as a lighting artist.

Ok so I took the image that you said I should stop as-is and changed it haha sorry, but I wanted to change that blur effect, it was a simple photoshop fix, especially since I kept the layers, it made it easier.

*Last posted Image*
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8821/sfinallyarrived1ce8.th.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sfinallyarrived1ce8.jpg)

*Final Posted Image*
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6435/sfinallyarrivedcd3.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sfinallyarrivedcd3.jpg)

Hopefully the Brand X bottle looks better, it did look to fack with the strong blur, so I lowered the blur down. Thanks Jeremy, I'll post my image of the Fruit Bowl next week. images/icons/icon7.gif

08-29-2007, 02:24 AM
I added a new light to warm-up the scene
and switched the labels

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/3356/final1337to9.th.jpg (http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=final1337to9.jpg)

08-29-2007, 02:34 AM
thanks jeremy for organizing and maintaining these challenges.. and many great entries so far.
this is my try.. first draft.. did it in about 1 hour.. so not too great.. still not happy with the composition.

rendered in maya8.5 + mental ray .. no lights .. all white cards + FG


08-29-2007, 01:35 PM
Koka: Looks better than before but still some kind of boring. Maybe you can focus the lighting on the leet bottle.

mexxmillion: I like the rendering, looks great without lights. Just a few planes with a light material?

08-31-2007, 03:23 AM
Another one from me:



08-31-2007, 11:52 AM
ashurao - Welcome! That's a good start! The interior and liquid in the Leet could probably be brighter, given how extremely bright the outside of the bottle looks in the upper right corner. The shadow within the fog looks very hard-edged, while the shadows on the ground look very soft. Maybe you could adjust them both so they look more similar in hardness, and get some more defined ground shadows? The reflection in the lower part of the Leet looks very barren and hard-edged, maybe if you could make the reflected surface fade a little darker, or put more in the reflection environment, you could get something more believable there.

doodlerboy - That's still great. Comparing the versions, I think having some motion blur there did help make the point in the image.

Koka - That's looking good. The brightness seems inconsistent, with so much light on the tops of the clear plastic of the bottles, but no light on the tops of the plastic dispenser tops, no light on the top surface of the liquids. The blurring on the Brand X should blur the reflection on the floor as well, actually that would go softer than the Brand X.

mexxmillion - Good start, nice clean render. Keep going with your concept!


08-31-2007, 07:22 PM
Jeremy: Now the material looks like real plastic. Those water drops are a great idea. I like the green light bouncing off the pusher. The dirty bottle in the background is just great.


09-01-2007, 04:53 AM

09-02-2007, 08:38 PM
Hello, great renders, congratulations.
It's my firts participation, i'm comming from the french community of Cinema 4D.
Thank's for you'r comments.


09-03-2007, 02:48 PM
Rendering with DOF :)

09-03-2007, 07:41 PM
I'm pretty sure that because you were rendering with DOF your render time boosted extremley high. I think you should just render your stuff than take that image into photo shop copy the main image layer so that you have to of the same images on top of each other, that take one of the layers and give it a small amount of Gaussian Blur, than take the blured layer and give it a mask and start painting on the mask wich will help get rid of whatever you don't want to be blured. It's a really useful tactic. I'm just saying.

09-03-2007, 08:23 PM
Thanks doodlerboy
I Rendered the First image with a Z Buffer…
in Photoshop I used Z Buffer as Alpha Channel, then selected it as a selection that I blurred with Gaussian Blurr :)
I used Levels to Highlight image…

09-03-2007, 09:58 PM
Thanks Badie

I was saying the avatar of badie is not his, it is an image of yann minh..

09-03-2007, 11:03 PM
Hi all,
an other test


larger image :

09-04-2007, 12:18 AM
I don't have do it in intentional manner… and I
present all my excuses to Yann Minh

this illustration I had found it More than 2 Years ago
in a open source library of icons, I ignore till now, that it was made by Yann Minh

Now I Use my Personnal Avatar " C4D logo with Moroccan Touch " both on CGTalk & Frenchcinema4d…

Yann Minh Accept all My apologizes about that…

09-04-2007, 04:49 AM
edjkodiak - Welcome! Great image!

badie - Top image is great. I think the reflection of the Leet logo on the back of the bottle is distracting, you might see if you can just turn off reflections of the label or get the back of the label to look different from the front. The bottom image has haloing problems, most visible as a dark area above the top of the Leet dispenser. The edge of the shelf over the Brand X label also shows some haloing.

lolofedo - Welcome! OK, nice start with that image. The lighting of the sinks in the background looks like they get bright light from above, maybe some light coming from above onto the Leet would help also. The background sinks seem to reflect a warm, bright floor, maybe the lower left corner of the image could show a warm bright floor, and have similar reflection on the sink above it. I can't really see through the Leet to see what's behind it, and in the top area I can't see the top surface of the liquid. If the background is going to be that blurry, then its reflection in the water should also be blurry, even where the water is in focus. I can't see any shadows in the scene, probably they could add to it.


09-04-2007, 07:35 AM

Carrara. Only one light (bulb) and its inside the Leet bottle. :)

09-04-2007, 12:33 PM
Hi all!

Finally I decided to participate in these challenges. I always found this challenge very interesting and usefull. I saw some masterfully done picture so I couldn't stand more and yesterday I did my first try. I haven't changed the default maya scene, just added lights. I was about to enable caustics but no luck.:( So I faked it. Any advice how I could improve the lightning?


09-05-2007, 08:09 AM
Thank you Jeremy :)

09-05-2007, 11:04 AM
edjkodiak - If you're working on the next version, focus on the contact between the bottles and the ground. Right now there's a bright rim light along the bottom edge of the Brand X that shouldn't be there, and they both could use some occlusion or soft shadowing on the ground. The Leet liquid looks pretty good, but could use a top surface. The Brand X doesn't look like it has liquid in it yet, it looks more like smoke.

Obi - Welcome! That's a good start. You've got some aliasing on the grooved cap of the Leet bottle, maybe replacing the displacement map with a bump map would help, or better sampling in your render settings? The inside of the Leet dispenser looks a little glowy, maybe there is a light that isn't casting shadows in the scene? Keep trying on those caustics, they can add a lot.

L33tace - Work on the occlusion or shadowing under the Leet bottle, to give it some contact with the floor. The floor under it looks very flat, as if there is just wallpaper with a print of the texture instead of a displaced cave wall.


09-05-2007, 01:52 PM
Thank's for tour comments Jeremy. Let's go to work now....images/icons/icon7.gif