View Full Version : secon alien number2 - modeling

03 March 2003, 12:29 PM
Hi Kirt,

since you said if you have more than one hero in the other thread, then you can choose the best, and i really also would like modeling the alien2 i thought i could give it a try. hope you and wiz (and may be others already started on this guy) do not mind. kirt, i like your concepts very much and it is fun modeling them.

this is just to find the proportions, the hands and shoes in particular are very rough. what do think, may i go on ? (again modeled in zbrush)

03 March 2003, 12:30 PM
and another view

03 March 2003, 01:05 PM seems to have some problem in the side view....probably you have to correct the position of the shoulders and the hips relating to the body (=from pelvis to chest).

anyway, generally it sounds good! :)



03 March 2003, 05:56 PM
Yeah, I agree with cutnpaste. The shoulders need to come back and the overall shape of the torso needs to be adjusted. Think of his body as a ball carried inside of a bag. His head looks good, but maybe a bit too large. And finally the legs need more width and the feet need to be shortened by about 1/3.

03 March 2003, 11:44 AM
i worked on all the crits. also made the head slightly smaller and worked a little on the hands. texture is just for my fun ;)

how about him now ?

03 March 2003, 11:45 AM
and a sideview

03 March 2003, 01:17 PM
better! :thumbsup:

maybe the hips are still strange....but the last choice is for Kirt!


03 March 2003, 03:04 AM
I think he's really missing the mass of his torso right now. He just doesn't look the same as my concept for some reason. Head seems a bit big still.

The upper arms are kind of confusing too. Is the lump in the middle his bicep or shoulder? If it's his bicept, it needs to be smaller. If it's his shoulder, it's way too low.

03 March 2003, 04:12 PM
ok i tried to get him some mass. changed the arms, that is made them much rounder. is it now going the right direction ?

03 March 2003, 04:13 PM

03 March 2003, 04:14 PM

03 March 2003, 04:16 PM
and some overview. hope you like him kind of now... he is more tricky than i thought.

03 March 2003, 07:10 AM
no comments on this version of the alien ? is it that bad ? also, kirt, could you take a look at the cow modeling and comment that ? thanks.

03 March 2003, 09:42 AM
It's not bad ... but I'm trying to determine why it looks different than my concept. General shape looks good, but something is off about the whole thing. I'll probably have to draw over the image to nail it down. I'll get back to you shortly on this one.

03 March 2003, 11:03 AM
yes, my alien looks different from your drawing. i can see that. i tried to find out the reason, but i cannot see what is the problem, sorry i am not that experienced.

if you could find time to draw over my renderings, that would be very helpful. ( the box the alien is carrying in your drawing hides a large part of his body. )

03 March 2003, 09:53 PM
Added a front pose to the concept art. Maybe that will help?

04 April 2003, 05:44 AM
thanks ! i am back to work...

04 April 2003, 04:44 PM
i think he is getting better. what do you think, kirt ? (shoes are still very wip)

04 April 2003, 04:46 PM
and another view

04 April 2003, 02:31 AM
Yes, he's getting better. We'll just have to keep tweeking and getting new concept drawings until he looks perfect. I'll give you some more usefull critique later this evening. Don't have much free time right now.

But, I just wanted you to know I saw it and it's much better than the previous version. :thumbsup:

04 April 2003, 06:05 AM
thanks, kirt. glad you think he is better now. so i am patient, waiting for more, and may be work more on the shoes.

04 April 2003, 09:26 AM
I'll have to draw over your images ... I'll try to get these posted in the morning.

04 April 2003, 10:07 PM
Well, a busy couple of days for me. But there is a new image in the concept art thread now. I hope this works for you. I really need to get back to work on storyboards.

04 April 2003, 06:34 AM
thank you kirt for taking the time to do these sketches ! they really helped, as i could see what was wrong. i worked now matching up your drawing.

here just a quick view of the improved alien, still way to go though.

04 April 2003, 06:59 AM
Getting better ... but still a bit off. You need to define those shapes better. Right now he's looking like he's molded from a big lump of clay. Boots, kneepads and uniform should look like separate objects on him.

04 April 2003, 03:14 PM
Hey I have been following this whole short film since the beginning.. I would have loved to help but was transitioning between apps and finishing up a project a work.

You guys are doing a fantastic job...its very rewarding to watch:p

Anyway kokoro if you dont mind a stranger putting his eyes on your model strictly to help you out then I'll give it a shot.

Here is my take on why you might be having a little issue with not coming dead on to the concept.

Ill start from the top down:

1. [ The Head ] On your model the forehead area is small which makes it looked pear shaped. On the original drawing its more like a planters peanut. I would just lengthen the area between the eyes and the forehead and widen it so its just a little smaller than the pudgy jaw.

2. [ The torso ] this area is off because Kirt drew the body with an old school 2d technique which starts out like a pear shape. Think of it this way, tweak your verts towards the middle of the breast bone and in side the arm pit area to give it that pear shape and then ever so slightly adjust the shoulders to were they are rounded a little bit. also decrease the lower portion as well... he looks like a really fat dude when really he is a top heavy guy with somewhat of a gut and backside to match. That should do the trick in my opinion.

3 [The arms] Your close here dude, just define the forearms more symetrically and tapper in the shoulders some . This character seems like a push-over even though he is supposed to be a bad-ass. Broader shoulders takes away from that look.

4 [The legs] Honestly, if you havent done so already Id just delete them and start over, I think this is what is killing you. This characters legs are skinny and long but well defined with the attachments he is wearing. You seem to have the idea for the attachements but the portions are off a little because the legs arent long and skinny enough.

Modeling can be a pain and a joy all rolled into one, trust me I know. But your doing a great job so far and you have an excellent start. Sometimes you have to step away from what your doing because you cant see whats off. Take a day or two then study the concept again and go for it.

I hope I havent offended you or stepped on any toes... just looking to help from the bleachers where I can. Also dont take my word on any of this... Im not Kirt and he has the final say cause its his concept. I just gave ya something to chew on.

Later and good luck my friend.

04 April 2003, 05:59 AM
oh kid mesh, thank you so much. i will just run and try to do what you have written. i am sure it will help me a lot. thanks for taking the time in helping me.

04 April 2003, 09:18 AM
Kid Mesh revealed some very good points, we will wait until the next update to see what will come along.
keep it up friend.

04 April 2003, 05:39 AM
i restartet modeling. i could not get i right. so this is how far i got now. tried to incorporate your suggestions kid mesh, as far as i understood them.

ila, how many polys has your alien ?

04 April 2003, 08:16 AM
I think it's better if I send you the raw polymesh. PM me your e-mail address. which app you are using? (I mean which format is suitable for you?)

04 April 2003, 06:58 PM
Looks great my man, Nice turn around, Plus you do good poly work anyway's. Keep it up :thumbsup:

04 April 2003, 01:49 PM
hi, i have a problem - thats why i cannot go further.... may be someone can help me ?

below you see the alien i modeled so far
(1) wireframe
(2) smoothed (100%), but not edge smoothed
(3) smoothed with edgesmoothed (both 100%)

the wireframe "sits" tightly over kirts drawing, as well as the smoothed (2). but this does not look good. because of the missing edgesmoothing. now turning edgesmoothing on (3) changes the form and deletes many details.

i tried hard, but it seems to me, that it is not possible to model with that polycount so that it looks correctly in wireframe and in smoothed with edgesmoth on.

my question :

how should i model ? so that it fits in wireframe ?

or looks correctly in smoothed with edgesmooth on ? for that i would need to increase the polycount. it is now about 2100, then it would be about 8000, or even higher, if i divide further. i could divide only parts of the model, but that brings up triangles... i do not know if triangles are ok for animation....

btw i model in zbrush, if that is relevant for my question.

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