View Full Version : HMC9 : Star Wars Tribute : General Grievous

06 June 2007, 05:05 AM
Hey guys. This is my first challenge, so DO NOT go easy on me. I need all the crits and advice I can get :)

I'm going to model an obscenely detailed General down to the very last crack, scratch, crease and whatnot. My aim is to get him to look as identical to the real thing as possible, so that would mean that I'll probably render him with Maxwell (clearly the BEST render engine), due to the complex materials I'll have to deal with. I really wanted to pose him next to his mega cool wheel-bike, but I'll hardly have the time to model that as well. I'm also going to include the General's cape in the final model, which means that I'll have to learn cloth simulation and to be honest, I am NOT looking forward to that. A collegue of mine had a nervous breakdown after spending two days trying to simulate a curtain with Syflex. I was constantly laughing at him...

So....five Windows reinstallations, 3 boxes of ciggarettes, 2 cans of Coke and one herd of dead ants later, this is what I have done so far:

06 June 2007, 05:13 AM
That's a real Desert Eagle, by the way.

(Sorry, couldn't help it)

06 June 2007, 07:43 AM
That's a real Desert Eagle, by the way.

(Sorry, couldn't help it)

I've fired one of those monsters in .44 MAG cal, had a sore wrist for a couple of days!
The head of grievious looks great will be interesting to see how the rest comes out.

06 June 2007, 03:06 PM
Yeah, the shear power of the gun is obscene. When I shot with it, I actually had two of my friends pushing against my back, just in case. ALso when loading the bullets, you can't help but laugh...they're huge.

06 June 2007, 09:20 PM
Maxwell (clearly the BEST render engine)
This man speaks the truth!

PS: I shot a .50 cal once, and had a brass impression on my forehead to prove it for the next week :(

06 June 2007, 09:56 PM
Hey Yav, good start. As a fellow Grievous modeler, I will be watching this thread closely... esp. if you get a good grasp of his innards... the DVD has NO good shots of his shoulders, knees or hip area... so if you find good references PLEASE post them :D

Oh, and one quick note... the slits on Grievous' mask don't go all the way back on his head... they stop at or near the top of his forehead.

06 June 2007, 05:20 AM
just throwing it out there, that if you need some reference of grievous, check out the art of star wars III, or making of revenge of the sith books. Both have some decenct reference shots of the villian.

06 June 2007, 05:29 AM
Thanks for the tips, Bobby. I've been struggling with modelling this guy, due to the amount of things I had to guess, when trying to work out the detailed parts of his head and so on. The shots from the DVD we're always blurred and don't really help me with anything. It's all about guessing and using your intuition as much as possible. I wish there were some blueprints or model sheets for SW characters, but alas, even if there were some, I couldn't possibly wait for them to be delivered :(

If I had more time, I would've definately bought the toy :(

Eldee, trust me, you've got it easy. When I was a kid, I was running in my school gym and fell flat on my face due to some imbecill's idea to intentionally spill DrPepper on the floor. For a whole week, I was being stopped on the street and given simpathy by mature men and women, who were "ALSO" bullied in school. After a while, I just decided it wasn't worth explaining the black eye on my face and just nodded in agreement and hoped for the best.

06 June 2007, 05:33 AM
Thanks for the tip, Arly. The problem is that I live on a tiny island, where 512 broadband is still the peak of modern technology (at a low price of 60 Euros a month), so getting my hands on a Star Wars book is impossible. I'll just cheat as much as I can get away with and see where that takes me.

06 June 2007, 10:46 PM
A little update...

06 June 2007, 03:58 AM
Some late-night render tests:

06 June 2007, 11:18 AM
not to be harsh or rude, but why even bother with the shading and lighting if you don't even have the rest of your model built? the render and model looks great, but the clock's tickin man.

06 June 2007, 11:19 AM
Very nice model so far, looks like a very clean mesh.

06 June 2007, 01:03 PM
A little HI-RES update...

06 June 2007, 01:05 PM
Firebird, I completely agree with you, but I literally can't help it. Rendering and lighting is just SO fun...besides...setting up the lighting and render for those tests, took me an hour. I am using Maxwell after all :)

06 June 2007, 07:26 PM
Something tells me that you are...

1) A hardcore CG guy...

2) A stressed out guy...


3) A fun-loving soul!

This looks awesome already, and I'll bet soon to be one of the strongest contenders in this challenge. Best of luck mate.:thumbsup:

06 June 2007, 07:50 PM
Cheers, Mate. It's quite scary reading your's almost like you can read my mind :) But, yeah, spot on...I get well stressed out sometimes, but in the end, it's all worth it.

06 June 2007, 07:54 PM
Firebird, I completely agree with you, but I literally can't help it. Rendering and lighting is just SO fun...besides...setting up the lighting and render for those tests, took me an hour. I am using Maxwell after all :)

It's a bad habit to get into. Trust me. You should avoid regardless of how fun it is. Besides, if it's that much fun, then you'll finish you're model faster and become more proficient if you model everything before lighting and rendering comes into play. I know that test renders are sometimes necessary, but not in this case.

06 June 2007, 12:39 AM
lookin really good :thumbsup: model's really coming along and the render is, of course, awesome =)

06 June 2007, 03:10 PM
A little body update:

06 June 2007, 03:11 PM
And some wires...awful topology, I know, but I'll get it fixed later:

06 June 2007, 03:16 PM
Lookin good so far, gotta love the are you planning to pose him for the final shot? four light sabers I hope...

06 June 2007, 03:21 PM
I still haven't decided to be honest...don't know If I can be bothered to model 4 arms. I want to pose him in a more classical manner, if you know what I mean. Definately hunched over with some nice hand gestures. Maybe something like this:

06 June 2007, 03:24 PM
Lookin good man. Are going to make him pre-chest crushing (i.e. clonewars miniseries) or the film version where he's got the Lucas cough?

06 June 2007, 03:35 PM
Thanks, Firerbert. I've never seen the clonewars be honest, I'm not a HUGE fan of Star Wars. I just mainly like the art involved in the films :) I'll definately do him with the cough version...the final pose needs to show his pain and suffering...somehow, I don't how, but somehow, I'll try and get that across. I want him to look like a war amazing fighter, who's close to his end of existence.

Since I've got a degree in Animation, I would've loved to animate a little tap dance with him, but rigging this model would be INSANELY hard and I doubt, I'll have the patience to learn how to simulate cable and hose movement, 6 fingers, and so on...

06 June 2007, 03:54 PM
You should check out the mini-series. Frickin amazing. Almost better than the movies simply because you really didn't know what was going to happen and it was totally stylized animation.

06 June 2007, 04:05 PM
Yav, what software are you using?:shrug: If its Max or Maya(I have used it in the past) I'd be up for helping you rig it!:bounce:

06 June 2007, 07:17 PM
Thanks for your offer, Steve. I'm modelling him with MAX, but only because I haven't used XSI for two years. Used to do everything with Softimage back in the days, including rigging, which was so easy to do. For the General, I thought I might rig him in XSI using the premade human rig, but the main problem would be the movement of all the cables in his neck. If you have any ideas about this problem, feel free to share them. Any help would be great :)

06 June 2007, 07:19 PM
Firerbert, I'll definately have a look at the animated series. I totally adore stylized animation, like Samurai Jack for example.

06 June 2007, 07:20 PM
Yav, looking great man!

Check this out for ur wires etc:

06 June 2007, 07:49 PM
Thanks've just saved me at least 4 days of head banging against a HARD, concrete wall (with sharp, rotten nails sticking out)

06 June 2007, 09:09 PM
A little hand update....the inside part of the hand is not finished, due to the fact, that I have ZERO reference to what it looks like on the real model.

06 June 2007, 09:53 PM
Really cool work :thumbsup:

also i agree about the test renders, sometimes you just cant help it, but sometimes it can actually help visualise where your heading ... at least thats my excuse ...:)

06 June 2007, 10:09 PM
Mine too...

06 June 2007, 03:03 AM
Looking really good so far, Yav. You seem to have a good sense of proportions, especially as you're building him piece by piece. It would be quite a feat if you got him rigged in time for the deadline. A short animation would just be awesome. I've got quite a bit to live up to with my own Grievous, then.

Oh, and a waste of time or not, the test renders sure look slick.

06 June 2007, 08:07 AM
Re: Yav.

Ah, I never did get round to XSI unfortunately, so it looks like I have to settle for cheering you on. Still, those are fine mits you've done there.:thumbsup:

06 June 2007, 09:38 AM
good start, your mod. is great i'm waiting for more!

06 June 2007, 05:11 PM
Forearm update. I had to improvise the inside of the forarm, as there aren't any good images of what it looks like on the real thing. Making the blades was obscenely hard, and I'm not even fully happy with them, but I really can't be bothered anymore:

06 June 2007, 05:58 PM
One thing to make sure of (and this helps with the rest of the arm modeling too) is that his arms are composed of two arms each... in other words, whatever you sculpt for the inner forearms should be split right down the middle. Can't tell if you did that or not.

I like the blades personally... I still need to go back and tweak mine, still missing the ridges.
Overall, nice work thusfar, I look forward to more updates I can draw inspirations from :P

06 June 2007, 07:35 PM
Yeah, I still haven't decided whether to rig him with two or four for the inside of the forearm, it still isn't finished. It's so annoying, knowing that I could've had the whole model finished already if I had the blueprints....but then again, analyzing each body part, from the movie screenshots, gives you a really good understanding of what the ILM artists were doing and thinking, when making this awsome character :)

06 June 2007, 10:35 PM
It's looking great, very well detailed. I can understand your frustration at not finding references as I had tonnes of probs with parts of my AT-ST that I had to make up as I went along due to lack of refs.

Keep up the great work mate:thumbsup:

06 June 2007, 04:18 AM
Yeah, I still haven't decided whether to rig him with two or four for the inside of the forearm, it still isn't finished. It's so annoying, knowing that I could've had the whole model finished already if I had the blueprints....but then again, analyzing each body part, from the movie screenshots, gives you a really good understanding of what the ILM artists were doing and thinking, when making this awsome character :)

Yeah, watching the scenes Grievous was in, frame by frame, over and over again, really gave me an appreciation for the character's details... and how insanely fun/difficult the animation must have been.

06 June 2007, 09:15 AM
hey yav its looking great! looks like a very clean mesh =) and I hear you on the refs too... unfortunately most of the the scenes with my ships are all either very dark, far away, or moving too fast to pull any real details except a few vague shapes... its been fun piecing it all together tho =)

06 June 2007, 04:56 AM
A little update...

I've been going insane with this model...everything is going so slow, due to the fact that I have to constantly analyze each and every part of his body. I'm almost spendind as much time looking at frame shots from the movie, as the modelling itself. Oh well...let's hope it's all worth it in the end.

06 June 2007, 04:53 AM
The General looks like he's coming along. You're doing a great job with all of those robotic parts.

06 June 2007, 06:15 AM
Looking bloody great mate:thumbsup: Is he going to have the heart like the one in episode 3?

Also thanks for the support with my AT-ST!

06 June 2007, 03:05 PM
Thanks for comments, people :) I'm spending too much time defining the little details, but in the end, they really help bring out life to the model.

Octopus, I'm not sure how much time I'll have to model the inner organs, so I might just do something basic inside the green jelly shell, which will have a highly refractive material to hide the lack of detail on the organs and so on.

Here's little render test....the SSS is still awful, but hopefully, I'll make it look good, without the need of learning shader programming (which I would never attempt to do in a million years anyway):

06 June 2007, 05:17 PM
wow Yav that render looks gorgeous :thumbsup: I mean really I think this is going to be one of the big contenders for sure... can't wait for you to put in his eyes (if you intend to)... I feel like that would really bring the ol' general to life =)

06 June 2007, 07:14 PM
wow, your progress is astounding. are you doing anything other than work on this all day? i wish i was moving along as fast as you. it is looking really good, and i am glad to see you are already playing around with lighting and materials. i smell a contender...

06 June 2007, 09:01 PM
Thanks for the nice words, people :)

As for the eyes, I'm saving the best for last. I'm pretty much working on this all day long, between 10-14 hours a day. Should've done more in that time frame, but after doing boring architectural visualisations for the past two years, I have really forgotten organic modelling quite a bit.

06 June 2007, 09:41 PM
Yup, a very strong entry here. Definitely a runner up.:thumbsup:

06 June 2007, 01:31 AM
Keep up the awesome work, I am following this daily. Could you a point to a good reference for learning the maxwell renderer? THX

06 June 2007, 12:10 PM
read the manual and try try try... the better tutorials of maxwell can be seen at the official maxwellrender forum...


06 June 2007, 12:20 PM
Yeah, Maxwell is well easy to learn anyway...all you do is press render, no tweaking whatsoever :)

Here's another test render:

06 June 2007, 12:30 PM
Its looking good...
I've saw some really nice maxwell renders online but not have the chance to play around much.
Don't you have to change all the shaders to Maxwell shaders before rendering?
That soft glow on your last render, is it straight from the render or post processed in PS?

06 June 2007, 12:35 PM
Maxwell can work with your old MAX/MAYA/XSI shaders, but you'd get better results with Maxwell's own materials. The glow is applied during render within Maxwell.

06 June 2007, 12:03 PM
Looking good! It is a good idea to render you character as you progress. I've noticed a few of you HM Challengers doing it. And I must say its a good approach.

06 June 2007, 01:43 PM
Very nice character. The lighing adds a lot of emotion to the scene. Great job so far.

06 June 2007, 03:12 PM
Probably the main reason I render during modelling is to give myself hope that something good will come out in the end, and by saying that I'm sure I'm not the only one who starts HATING parts of their work at one stage or another.

06 June 2007, 03:20 PM
I'm sure I'm not the only one who starts HATING parts of their work at one stage or another. I start hating ALL parts of my work at most stages ..:rolleyes:

That last render was pretty cool, really adds to the character (even if you shouldnt do it ..:D )

06 June 2007, 11:02 PM
Here are some updates of the eyes. I got tired of making mechanical parts, so I just went straight to the good stuff. Modeled in Zbrush, imported into MAX as a hi-res mesh, due to the fact that I completely forgot that Maxwell does NOT support displacement maps :( Gonna have to render it like that, but I guess it will be alright. I had some serious frustrations with those eyes, especially the eyeballs. Aligning them was a nightmare and I'm still not fully satisfied, but it'll have to do for now. They are fully summetrical at the moment, but I'll sort that out later.

06 June 2007, 12:29 AM
This just occured to I gonna get disqualified if I only have the General in pose without an actual scene around him?

06 June 2007, 04:39 AM
Maybe, I'm not sure. Perhaps you could make a quick settings of some Utapau plating.

your Grievous looks amazing. The most accurate one I've seen yet.

06 June 2007, 06:06 AM
Oooo the general's almost coming to life! =)

06 June 2007, 06:37 AM
Well, I dont think you'll get disqualified, just considered to have not finished your entry. This would be cool if Grevious was sparring with one of his Magna guards or just commanding his B1 or B2 battle Droids...

Maybe he is in a hologram/communication room - talking to someone else or just directing a battle...

06 June 2007, 02:25 PM
Thanks for the info, guys. I'll think of something. Here's a test render of the eyes. No texture on the skin yet, so it looks like mud...awful :(

06 June 2007, 02:39 PM
Yav, maybe you could add Obi-wan, Qui-Gon & Count Dooku and have them do Bohemian Rhapsody!:D

06 June 2007, 03:05 PM
Excellent idea...I'll animate them singing in chorus, whilst doing an Irish sync, would you believe it. The voice talent will without a doubt come from here

06 June 2007, 03:41 PM
at the rate you are going, you could just remake episode III in cg. go for it

06 June 2007, 04:50 PM
looking good.

don't see the lack of scene being a problem,

then image 6

06 June 2007, 04:52 PM
Re: Yav

The voice talent will without a doubt come from here

OMG, they were so cruel to him! Basically he compares the guy's singing to a 1-year-old and then says "...and I'm not being rude". :applause:

06 June 2007, 05:22 PM
Precisely why I love Simon Cowell...his brutal honesty never ceases to entertain me.

NoirQ, thanks for the've now officially made me less depressed. Upon finishing the annoying UV mapping of the whole model, I'll be completely happy. That is of course until the moment I get to pose the character...nightmare that will be, of that I'm sure. (is it me, or did I just sound like Yoda?)

RedRepublik...I think you're right. I'm going to start with modelling the Jedi Temple and then move onto the whole city. Should be easy, a few cubes here and there, maybe an airfield or two, couple of thousand hi-poly ships in the air, a sun, a moon and maybe some clouds. Nah, I won't make the deadline if I put clouds, I think I might just skip that.

06 June 2007, 10:06 PM
Here's the model so far...gotta do the feet and some other minor stuff and it should be finished. Something looks off, but I can't quite pinpoint the problem. Any comments would be helpful :)

06 June 2007, 10:24 PM
Looks absolutely awesome. especially the eyes! can't see anything wrong with it so far..keep at it mate.

06 June 2007, 09:18 AM
Check the shot from Episode3 where he slides off his robe(oo-er), I think he might have more parts on his shoulders...:shrug:

06 June 2007, 09:29 AM
Something looks off, but I can't quite pinpoint the problemHe's no feet ..:)

Seriously, it looks great, but can i suggest that maybe his head is a bit small ..

although it more obvious in this one :applause:

06 June 2007, 03:19 PM
Thanks mate, you could be right...I'll look into it straight away. In the mean time, here's another test render of the eyes. Skin still looks awful and the bump on the mask is all wrong, but it's a start :)

06 June 2007, 03:32 PM
good progress. i look forward to seeing the real bump on the face. the eyeballs are starting to look good

06 June 2007, 01:10 PM
Hey guys. It has been a long time since I posted anything. This a render test of some textures and materials on the leg, nowhere near finished of course. I've had an obscenely hard time unwrapping Grievous. Literally, UV mapping is the WORST, single, most horrible thing I've ever had to deal with. It has come to a point, where I might not have the time to fully texture every single part, as I need to have some time for posing and lighting him for the final render.

I've also been watching 24, season 4 for the past two days...I got really hooked and unfortunately, my addiction might have some consequences in regards to this challenge. As for the cape, that I REALLY wanted to put on Grievous...well, what can I say. Learning Syflex might just not be possible in the given timeframe. I'd attempt to model the cape in Zbrush, but we'll see.

06 June 2007, 10:29 PM
the eyes are looking awesome i think just a little bit more and you got it :thumbsup: texturing looks like its going well too, despite the nasty uv mapping (which I whole-heartedly agree with heheh)

06 June 2007, 06:02 AM
Hey guys. It has been a long time since I posted anything. This a render test of some textures and materials on the leg, nowhere near finished of course. I've had an obscenely hard time unwrapping Grievous. Literally, UV mapping is the WORST, single, most horrible thing I've ever had to deal with. It has come to a point, where I might not have the time to fully texture every single part, as I need to have some time for posing and lighting him for the final render.

I've also been watching 24, season 4 for the past two days...I got really hooked and unfortunately, my addiction might have some consequences in regards to this challenge. As for the cape, that I REALLY wanted to put on Grievous...well, what can I say. Learning Syflex might just not be possible in the given timeframe. I'd attempt to model the cape in Zbrush, but we'll see.

That seriously looks amazing. For how the model is now I think you could get away without texturing all of the parts (what I can see looks great already) I would start looking at poses and make some kind of environment and then do more texturing if you have the time. Although I think his mask would need the more realistic bump map but that shouldn't take too long to do with Zbrush if you've got the right texture coordinates. It's an absolutely amazing model, it looks like Maxwell is doing really great for you. I'm starting a model of the pre-cyborg grievous, but I doubt I'd get it done in time for the deadline.

06 June 2007, 01:55 PM
Really, really good work .. in fact great work :thumbsup:

Definately time to sort out some poses though ....

06 June 2007, 03:24 PM
Put him in a scene, and you've got one of the top entries. So far, so good.:thumbsup:

06 June 2007, 05:07 PM
Yeah, you guys are definately right...I really need to concentrate on the pose and environment, even though there's so much more I could do with the textures. I really thought I could make the SSS work as good as the real thing, but as time has passed, I've come to realise that I might not be able to make the right shader. After all, ILM has the best coders in the world working for them, who probably spent like a month perfecting that Renderman SSS shader used on Grievous. Here's the last test, before I start posing the General:

06 June 2007, 05:12 PM
That is just marvelous. A wonderful piece of modeling I must say.

06 June 2007, 05:13 PM
darthviper107, I forgot to say good luck with your model...even if you don't finish it, you'll at least have a good time modelling him :) I really wanted to model his face underneath the mask and in the final render, have him starring at the mask, while holding it in his hands. If you get to finish your model, it'd be interesting what the General looked like before turning all cyborg.

06 June 2007, 05:16 PM
Thanks, Boone. Maybe one day you can step up to the challenge to make the ultimate rig for this guy. It'd be well hard and I doubt I'd ever attempt to do something like that, but seeing as that's your speciality, I'm pretty sure you'd make a smashing job of it :)

06 June 2007, 05:20 PM
LOL, if it were in Maya, I could most likely do it. Who knows, eh?:shrug:

06 June 2007, 10:38 PM
Yav you should be very proud of an awesome model:thumbsup: it's the best grievous i've seen anywhere apart from the ILM original, can't wait to see him posed and displayed in a cool enviroment.

06 June 2007, 12:23 AM
It looks sublime, a real masterpiece in the making.
Excellent attention to detail!

06 June 2007, 08:31 PM
from one grievous modeler to another. have a look at this thread.
i spend about 1,5 years on this model perfecting it from every refrence pic i was able to find. sadly i have lost my refrence stash or else i would have gladly donated it.
note i am planning to finish this grievous sometime at the end of the year.

anyways very nice model. and i'm looking forward to seeing the finished scene. truly stunning i love the SSS (i never got that to work)

06 June 2007, 09:41 PM
Re: Ravenger373

Bloomin'eak - thats a mighty effort for a first modelling attempt!:eek:

06 June 2007, 11:08 PM
Ravenger373, going through your old thread was one of the most surreal things I have ever experienced in my life. Even some of the camera angles on the screenshots were the same. Obviously amazing model, though the head is too big and some other parts seemed out proportion. I could never spend a year on a single piece of work, even if I have the time....I'd get SO utterly bored of it. That's why I love these month is all you get :) You should've joined.

06 June 2007, 11:46 PM
First Class model! And you model very quick! The last two weeks i hadnīt so much time to follow the challenge and didnīt recognize your entry, AND NOW YOU`RE NEARLY FINISHED!! Respect! I also like youīre renderings very much!

Good luck!

06 June 2007, 06:40 AM
wish i could have but sadly i have had other priorities. that and i didnt notice this challange till last night :P

that model was also what i learned i know now everything on.
anyways im found some of my old refrence pics you want em?

06 June 2007, 02:14 PM
Thanks, but I'm done with the modelling, mainly because I haven't got any more time, since the challenge is due to be over soon.

06 June 2007, 03:46 PM
Marvelous Sir, spectacular...

06 June 2007, 07:12 PM
Here are some silhouette tests. The pose is awful, but its a start. I really wish I had the cape, as that would've really given character to the General.

06 June 2007, 07:15 PM
Grevious: "And over here is the Fridge-freezer which is included with the price of the house should you choose to buy it...":D

06 June 2007, 07:19 PM
Married Couple: "Oh, right, thanks. We already have one of our own. It's a Samsung, isn't it dar....."


Married Couple: "Uhmm..."

06 June 2007, 07:50 PM
"Perhaps you would be more interested in this stackable washer dryer combination? My paitence wears thin."
I'm gonna encourage you to check out that clonewars miniseries. You could seriously get some great ideas for a pose from watching those.
Great update man!

06 June 2007, 08:23 PM
"I...I..I think we're just going to leave now."

"WAAAIT!!!....(Takes a deep, exhausting breath)...."Here's my card and WHEN you change your mind, give me a call on weekdays after 8am."

06 June 2007, 08:37 PM

06 June 2007, 11:40 PM
A quick two hour render test of today's pose:

07 July 2007, 12:06 AM
Oh, that's cool.

What would be really cool, is if you could put him in some dark corridor (with that lighting how it's shinning through some kind of grating) and then have the camera over the shoulder of a Jedi closer to the camera facing General Grievous.

Although that could take too much time. Really great rendering though.

07 July 2007, 02:53 AM
nice modeling work! which renderer did you used on it?

the ilm use a special shader brdf with a translucensy bssrdf in it to mimic the organical plastic skin of the general.

I don't like a lot your ligthing test it' s seems to dark and you loose all your modeling's detail. It will be nice with a little bit of GI, occlusion, and maybe a HDRI environment, as the original.

so it's a nice work.

07 July 2007, 03:44 AM
This is nt 1 of the best poses.
Are you protraying him as the weak sickly general or the 4 saber wielding general?

That brings another question to my mind.
Where exactly actually does he hids his other 2 arms? He keeps it out of sight with his cape, without his cape, should it be hidden behind him?

07 July 2007, 05:30 AM
Jude3D...I used Maxwell Render and it uses GI as default. I don't really need an occlussion pass, considering that's just a method to fake GI and Maxwell does a brilliant job as it is. I agree everything is too dark, but I couldn't help myself as I really wanted to see the general in a more dramatic lighting situation. The final render will of course be much different from this :) far as the pose goes, it's a quick 20 minute set-up, just to try the lighting. I am currently researching some classical poses from the Rennessaince, so rest assured, the final pose will be much, much better:) As far as the character I'm going for, it will have to be the sickly, cough-ridden, ill-fated General. That's probably the main aspect of this character, that I like the most, as I've really become tired of the usual heroic crap portrayed in games and films these days. Each of his arms is actually composed of two attached arms, which split appart, in combat situations.

07 July 2007, 09:59 AM
Have grevious holding two lightsabers. The four-arm set-up would be time consuming and tricky to pose, but with two you can make him look more solid.

Its funny really because when I was a complete die-hard star wars fan I actually came up for the idea of a cyborg dark-Jedi that was like Robocop MKII but with four arms wielding four lightsabers! Its funny how things turn out, eh?:scream:

But I was never really sold on the four-arm configuration of General Grevious - they ended up looking a bit fragile...:shrug:

07 July 2007, 12:36 AM
Another update, showing some improved textures and lighting experiments. No good pose yet :(
Some awful black dots have started showing around the collar and that unfortunatelly will be the price of using Maxwell to render, as it's known to produce such defects from time to time.

07 July 2007, 02:06 AM
That's looking really sharp! nice work, cann't wait to see more.

07 July 2007, 02:40 AM


Photoshop clone tool : )

07 July 2007, 02:47 AM
Nah, I'm too stubborn...gonna get to the bottom of this problem, no matter what :)

07 July 2007, 03:19 AM
This may not help at all, but Mental Ray gives me black dots from time to time. There's a setting in the Final Gather rollout for the radius of the final gather samples. Lowering the minimum size of the sample radius to a very small size will often times eliminate the black dots, but at the same time dramatically increase render time. Maybe Maxwell has a similar hiccup?

Regardless, excellent work!

07 July 2007, 03:37 AM
Thanks, Michael...back in college, I was using MR and I remember what you're talking about. The thing is, and that's probably the main reason I chose to use Maxwell, is that there are no settings to adjust...all you do is press render :)

07 July 2007, 06:24 AM
Wow, that's amazing. I wish I could see him animated. What modeling program are you using?

07 July 2007, 10:51 AM
Awsome work looks really nice!.

very accurate :)
though you seem top have forgotten the arrows on his chest. too bad about the black dots though i hope you can get that fixed.

07 July 2007, 02:13 PM
Yeah, I keep on reminding myself to add them, but I really, can't be bothered :)

Sorry to post the same render over and over again, but I thought it'd be interesting to see the different lightpasses at work:




07 July 2007, 03:14 PM
Thats looking really nice! I havent read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned before, also, I dont have any reference so take this for what its worth..

His hands seem very feminie, not warrior like at all.

Good job!

07 July 2007, 03:21 PM
holy crap! nice. i smell a win

07 July 2007, 03:31 PM
Not unless you start posting again, RED....

07 July 2007, 03:46 PM
nice approach, I prefer the look with hdr environment maybe a little bit to brigth but it works. The only thing is about the scattering, of course ilm use a bssrdf in renderman to scatter the plastic as a human skin and the sss is really high in the original ilm version. It's impossible to achieve with maxwell but really nice work.

07 July 2007, 03:51 PM
i'm bogged down in E3 crunch, but in any case i think yours is an amazing piece of craftmanship, and i can't wait to see how you finish it off


07 July 2007, 04:07 PM
Jude3D, I've been trying everything with Maxwell's SSS and it still doesn't look right. I even resulted to painting masks to isolate the SSS around the edges only, but it still lacks the "depth" that the original ILM one has. I might try and render him with Mental Ray in the future, just out of curiosity.

Thanks,, I've really gotta visit one of those E3 exhibitions one day :)

07 July 2007, 05:58 PM
your modeling looks really nice something i noticed though is that he only has 5 fingers but in the movie he has 6 see this pic (

07 July 2007, 06:00 PM
after closer inspection i saw the 6th finger in that case it is perfect

07 July 2007, 08:47 PM
Yet another pose...I'm getting well frustrated with this guy...nothing is like it should be and all I want to do is go to the beach and get drunk on tequilla with lime :(

07 July 2007, 09:30 PM
welcome to my world.... :P

i had quite a few moments like that when i was modeling this guy.
still i like this pose alot better than the last.
looking good man keep it up.
btw what program are you using?

07 July 2007, 10:03 PM
Modelling in MAX, rendering with Maxwell. I would've done it all in XSI, but I haven't used it for two years and by the time the competition started, I didn't really have the time to learn it all over again.

07 July 2007, 10:07 PM
Looking bloody great Yav! Yes I understand your frustration all too well. Maybe modelling Star Wars stuff is a curse or as C3PO said "it's our lot in life to suffer"

Anyway looks like your on the home straight now, so stick with it as it's your destiny to get this finished:)

07 July 2007, 10:12 PM
Thanks, man...After I get this finished, I'm off to the nearest strip joint, with women on my mind, and plenty of one dollar bills, waiting to be put in the right place ;)

07 July 2007, 08:16 AM
LOL. Thats really good pose! A force staff I wouldnt have thought of...good work there Yav.:thumbsup:

07 July 2007, 08:59 AM
I'm off to the nearest strip joint, with women on my mind, and plenty of one dollar bills, waiting to be put in the right place ;)It funny you should say that 'cos he does kind of look like he's pole dancing ...:)

sorry, thats probably put you off now, but it looks pretty cool mate :thumbsup:

07 July 2007, 09:35 AM
Sim, you are just terrible. Have to ruin it for everyone else doncha!:D

07 July 2007, 02:19 PM
Hahaha...well spotted, Sim. I never would've've now placed me and the General in a complitely different direction :)

Here's a new test render with those BLACK GODDAMN DOTS still showing, more than ever. I think it might be the HDR map, so I'll see. I've been researching SSS for hours last night, and I think I finally got it working the way it should be...obviously, not as well as MR would've done it, but it's close.

07 July 2007, 03:25 PM
Ok, after a LOT of tweaking, I think I've come up with the final pose. Now I only need to odjust the lightning, fix the spear, paint a few more textures along with the main background and it should be done. I REALLY want to add the cape, but I just don't know whether I'll have the time to learn Syflex and simulate the cloth all before saturday, since I'll also need two days for rendering.

07 July 2007, 04:02 PM
truly amazing work yav! the only thing i would say about the pose is to change the angle of the head slightly. the side fins are seen completly edge on from this pose. i think it would look good to have the head tilted slightly down. as for the cape, can't you just model it in mudbox or zbrush? it doesn't have to be fully animatable

07 July 2007, 04:32 PM
Thanks, RED. I didn't see that problem before...I think I'll just rotate the blades slightly, because I really like the visciousness of his head's position. I don't want to do the cape in Zbrush, because I'm not confident I'll model it in time, due to the fact, that I've never attempted to make cloth creases before.

07 July 2007, 05:10 PM
I know who Im voting for....

07 July 2007, 05:12 PM
Shhhh...discussing nominations might get us disqualified ;)

07 July 2007, 05:13 PM
We definitely have a winner here! Super work!

I don't want to do the cape in Zbrush, because I'm not confident I'll model it in time, due to the fact, that I've never attempted to make cloth creases before.

If not Zbrush, why not just model the thing in your modeling app? Just think of it as a deformed plane that goes from narrow to wide. The trick is to make it look dynamic with your character's pose. If you have access to nurbs tools, you can even create some nurbs curves, position the curves the way you would like the cape to "flow," and loft the curves afterward. Then it's just a matter of tweaking the final product and you can still convert to polys in the end. Just a thought. :)

07 July 2007, 06:16 PM
Re: Airflow.

I know who Im voting for....

Ah, cheers mate! My entry is so awesome I amaze even myself.:deal:

07 July 2007, 09:40 PM
It's a pity about the cloak, otherwise it looks brilliant .. give it a go with a plane, most of it will be in shadow anyway ...

Other than that, he hasnt got anywhere to tuck $1 bills ..:D

07 July 2007, 10:13 PM
AWESOME Yav! the final pose perfectly suits the general. I'm hoping all you guys are also going to participate in the next challenge. as the work demonstrated in this challenge has been amazing stuff.

07 July 2007, 10:20 PM
Thanks guys :)

I'm definately not participating in the next challenge. After this is over, I'm off to Florence and for two weeks I'll be doing nothing but visiting old castles and museums, eating spaghetti, seducing Italian girls (unsuccessfully) , dancing badly to Tango and watching cable TV in my hotel room :)

07 July 2007, 12:00 PM
the last rendering is better for me but the scatter is a little bit too orange and linear in the color way and give a more orange lighting specular and diffuse way than a sss effect. I know it's hard to get in maxwell. really nice modeling

07 July 2007, 03:28 PM
So incredibly wicked awesome that I bought stock in Hanes and Angel Soft the moment I saw the image!:thumbsup:

07 July 2007, 04:44 PM
Hello i'm new here and it's my 1st post.

So this pose looks good though' but it's gonna be much better if you add a cloth on his back same as in a film. Well his carring a spear hmm, put him into fighting position; his right leg should be back than the left leg should be at to the front, point spear into place where is camera it may look a bit dynamic ;)

07 July 2007, 07:49 PM
yeah abpout a fast cloth you could use paint sculpt if you use maya. or of course cloth sim.

07 July 2007, 08:29 PM
Ok, guys...after two days of intense tutorial reading, I have finally managed to do something decent with Syflex in Maya:

1. Working out the proportions of the cape and looking for the optimal position for the simulation:

2. Cloth test. Naturally, MANY things still need to be fixed:

07 July 2007, 08:32 PM
I think you never really doubted that you would be able to simulate cloth... Because this look amazing even though, like you said, ofcourse it needs some work. :) Not much time left now!!

07 July 2007, 09:09 PM
I hadn't checked in on this one in a while. This is Crazy good.
Great job all around

07 July 2007, 01:35 AM
This is one of the best!! I really like your model and rendering. It's really realistic!!

07 July 2007, 01:43 PM
WOW man, fantastic job of modeling!

A Great Entry!

07 July 2007, 05:49 AM
Thanks for the comments guys.

So, after a few days and nights on Red Bull and Coke (the drink), I've managed to finish the cape. This is the final choice, out of all 7 different types I experimented with. I've tried wind and turbulance from all directions, I've tried all types of camera angles, lighting and whatnot and to be honest, at one point I was on the brink of giving up the whole thing. It was literally a matter of sleeping for an hour, while Syflex was calculating the cloth, then wake up, tweak the settings, hoping for the best and going back to sleep for another hour :(

Let me know what you all think, and I gotta say, GOOD LUCK to EVERYONE on Monday...hopefully, we all get to finish our work, without throwing ourselves off the balcony or for those who live in a house, without commiting a suicide with a kitchen knife.


07 July 2007, 06:37 AM
Yav, That looks brilliant and i'll bet you'll be glad to seeing the end of this challenge so you can sleep for a couple of days. At least you got your cloth simulator to work. I played around with reactor cloth a while back and gave up in frustration with it.
How long will your final render take?

07 July 2007, 07:06 AM
Cloth reactor is absolutely awful...worst piece of coding ever to be made for 3D software. I'm hoping I can get a decent render in about 30-40 hours on a dual core 6600 with 4 gigs of ram. Actually, come to think of it, I might overclock the processors just for the render. Thanks, Octopus :)

07 July 2007, 07:21 AM
reactor isnt that bad really, I though simcloth or max cloth could do the job, simcloth being a free plugin and all....
Looks nice... It be nice to give him some green glow like in the control room at the corusant battle...

07 July 2007, 08:56 AM
Yav, its either you, Airflow or Simjoy who are going to win this contest. I wish you the very best in these last few hours.

God speed.:thumbsup:

07 July 2007, 02:07 AM
Here goes nothing....


07 July 2007, 02:10 AM
Here goes everything..... my lunch, breakfast, supper, dinner, brunch, afternoon tea and biscuts, midnight snack, and little miss debbies zebra cakes! I just shat all over myself! GOSH DAMN!:buttrock:

07 July 2007, 02:28 AM
You know there are rules against breaking into ILM and stealing their models...LOL.

No Crits thats all I can say!

07 July 2007, 02:30 AM
The Grevious came out absolutely fantastic. Love the final render. Looks like a classic painting of a general. Could be Napolean standing there. Love it. Great work.

07 July 2007, 02:41 AM
If this doesn't win the challenge, i shall quit doing CG for a day.

07 July 2007, 02:58 AM
I blame you for the money Im gonna spend of a 4gig state of the art Dell or Boxx and the Maxwell licence that will come with it...
Beautiful. Hope you made the deadline, and if you didnt, well just pay off roberto ortiz.

07 July 2007, 03:33 AM
Oh, WOW. That is extremely amazing. I can't give any criticism. That is just so awesome.

07 July 2007, 03:49 AM
Simply awesome. I know you had a hard time with the pose, but I really like the one you settled on. Amazing quality.

07 July 2007, 04:34 AM
Thank you all for the AMAZING support given to me throughout this challenge...without hesitation, as cheesy as this may sound, I could honestly say that I probably would've given up if it wasn't for the encouragment from everyone.

07 July 2007, 04:51 AM
as cheesy as this may sound, I could honestly say that I probably would've given up if...
Well your avatar image doesn't look so promising in this anti-giving up thing so we'll believe you on that one :D

Just joking around :cool:

07 July 2007, 04:56 AM
Coolest image I've seen in a long time! AND very professional in quality. This one gets my vote!

07 July 2007, 07:40 AM
absolutely amaziing yav :thumbsup: that final render... wow... if you haven't already, you should submit it to the CGgalleries and win you one of those nifty awards =)

07 July 2007, 09:15 AM
F***ing brilliant mate.:thumbsup:

07 July 2007, 10:16 AM
"Officer Cody send a transmission back to the Jedi Council , Grievous has returned from the Grave" yells ObiWan

ZzzKKKkk "very good Sir" - cue Probe dispatching into Geonosis atmosphere.

Sublime work Yav, really quite extraordinary attention to detail. :)

07 July 2007, 10:37 AM
Yav, I'm absolutely speechless mate!:buttrock:This is definetly going to be the winner of the challenge. I agree with rkraiza about the final render being like the painting of a great general.
Also Yav, i'll sound cheesy now but thanks a million for your help with my AT-ST scene, mainly with your advice on composition that enabled me to turn a mediocre scene into a great one. I look forward to seeing what you come up with next, maybe the general's bike?

07 July 2007, 10:43 AM
Perfecto, theres no other word for it.

well done

07 July 2007, 11:04 AM
Well its not bad i suppose ... for a beginner ..:)

5* image mate ..:thumbsup:

07 July 2007, 11:45 AM
ok that's fantastic. one tiny tiny crit. I think the DOF is a bit off in the BG as you can just see the focus band behind. great great job though :)

07 July 2007, 12:53 PM
Ohh!! Very nice Yav.. very VERY nice =) Love the choice of pose and render u went with after all. It's delicious!!! ;)

07 July 2007, 02:07 PM
wow, beautiful! i know some guys over at ILM who would love to ask you for some advice:)

07 July 2007, 06:14 PM
Dude that looks soooo awsome!

i realy am at a loss for words!. i wish mine was half this good.
i think your a shoe in for winner :)

07 July 2007, 06:36 PM
Well that was a nifty suprise, coming back to this thread after 10 pages or so..

That is simply a stellar image, and there is nothing I could add or take away from it.

You got my vote.

07 July 2007, 09:25 AM
Great image. If i give you my vote, will you put that gun down now?

07 July 2007, 05:13 PM
that's a gorgeous grievous......excellent work

07 July 2007, 09:16 PM



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