View Full Version : HMC 8: The Kurgan (Clancy Brown)

03 March 2007, 05:52 PM

Ok...after realising I should have started my own thread (NOOB!!!) to show my progress here I am. My very own patch of the forums....

Ok. So....I've decided to go with the Bone Armour Kurgan (as opposed to the modern day version). And I think I'll be going with this sort of pose. As he looks like he is in a daydream state, remembering some distant memory of an innocent childhood before War and Power called to (

I've been wondering about doing a waist bust including arms and sword, mounted as if a model that you might by in a model shop. If anyone knows if this is allowed or which category it falls in please do tell. Thanks.

Anyway. I've started and heres a low poly model of the Bone Helmet ready to go into Zbrush. (

03 March 2007, 06:55 PM
A bit Zbrush tinkering...but theres still more to do here. (

03 March 2007, 07:42 PM
Hey mate, looking really solid, will keep an eye on this.
about your question, i think it is allowd, and it is in the bust category, i remenber roberto saying something that a bust is anything from the waste up ( anyway those resin models are called busts if they are not full figure like ).

03 March 2007, 09:55 PM
edit: Deleted message

03 March 2007, 09:57 PM
cheers andre

Heres a bone texture test. I'm pretty new to zbrush so these things need to be done.

Anyone know a good way to make the mane/crest of this helmet. I don't have a hair modeller. I'm not sure i'll be able to get a good result in C4D using a matrix extrude. Think my best bet is to use polys with alpha's of hair strands on it. Or just to make a model and keep it solid. (

03 March 2007, 11:13 AM
Update and problem.....

This is where the Bone helmet is at now. Modeled and painted (

And this is what it looks like in C4D.....fine nothing wrong here..... (

This is where the problem starts. I'm relatively new to Zbrush and exporting obj. files, but I have done it before without any problems. This is what the model looks like in C4D with the texture applied... (

If anyone can help me, or tell me what the problem is I would be grateful. Thanks.

03 March 2007, 11:30 AM
Nice progress.

About your problem;
(If you didn't already) From "Objects" panel,
First select your models Material Tag,
Then from the menu of objects panel, choose Tags> Mirror Vertically

03 March 2007, 01:06 PM
Thanks Turx.

Thats the texture applied nicely. But now it looks like this up close. (

Is this something to do with the material?

03 March 2007, 01:24 PM
it looks like your color and displacement maps are vertically symmetric.
you can;
- In material editor put your displacement map into a Layer.
- add a Transform option in Layer menu. (Layer > Effect > Transform)
- In Transform properties, check the "Flip" option.
so both color and disp will look same direction.

Also it's an option to use photoshop to rotate one of them vertically.

03 March 2007, 02:20 PM
Thanks again Turx. I'll give that a go.

I the meantime though. I have realised how I did it in the past.

I coloured the object directly (not in Projection master). When I did this and exported the object it created a bmp. file. Easy right......

So. I went and repainted the helmet in this so (

Which looks much more like the real thing.

Now my problem is this. When I export the object it doesn't create a bmp file any more. And I don't know how to export the colour that I have placed on it. It's starting to do my head right in, as I say it worked before and I don't know what i'm doing differently.


03 March 2007, 03:10 PM
Hey Stinger,

Nice work so far!. First things first, you are probably better off painting it in projection master because when painting directly on the model, it colorizes each vertex in the mesh instead of creating an actual texture map. But what you can do in the meantime is convert the vertex painting you've done into an actual texture by going into the Tools palate down to the Texture subpalate and clicking Col>Txr button. Then you can use that texture to keep going in projection master and blending the areas you have shown in the close up. Then you can export the texture map from the main Texture palate.

Hope this explanation helps! Keep it up, its looking good!

03 March 2007, 03:53 PM
Thanks Kraken and again thank Turx. I finally got there.

Heres it is. (

The texture once in C4D still has the block effect. I'll try and get rid of it tomorrow following your displacement theory Turx, not sure if i follow it, but we'll see.

I originally painted without using projection master because it is so much easier the other way. I'll use it in the future though. Can I still do this and use the Col>Tex button as you informed me to do to get the same end result or does it differ?

Again thanks. You saved my sanity......for now

03 March 2007, 04:18 PM
You can, but it can be aggrivating because there is no undo when vertex painting directly on the model. Plus you can't use any other brush because once you switch tools, your model becomes pixols applied to the ZB canvas instead of a mesh. But sending it to projection master let's you paint with any of the available tools or brushes ZB has. Plus if you download Zapplink from Pixologic's website, you can use it to be able to use Photoshop to help texture your model!

03 March 2007, 12:03 PM
Still wasn't able to get rid of the block effect on the texture exported from Zbrush. I wasn't able to follow your instructions turx. I don't know where those options are. If I can't solve this problem it aint too big an issue. It's only visible very close up.

Anyway, heres an update. Made texture colours on helm a little less green. And I started modelling the chest plate of the armour. ( (

03 March 2007, 03:36 PM
Lets leave the armour for a bit. Heres his face. ( ( (

03 March 2007, 10:31 AM
Coming together...bit by bit by bit by bit by bit by bit.

Feel free to let me know if it could be improved. I need some fresh eyes to look at it. (

03 March 2007, 01:35 AM
I've gone back a few stages here to add a body to the face. This means i'll have to do the face again but it will means I will probably get a better likeness. (finger crossed)

Anyway. heres what i've done

added ears (even though they will be under the helmet) (

Created the body (

No hand or feet as I will model these part seperately later (

Waved the Zbrush wand around a bit..ALAKAZAM!!! piff paff poof.... (

I'm not to bothered about muscule groups as most will be covered with armour.

Heavy B
03 March 2007, 03:32 PM
hey stinger it is Dirty from BFB

like you're armor set but i have a few comments on the rest.

this character is a warrior so it makes him very muscular, and muscular people have bigger, muscular jaws so have another look into it and add some more mass.

secondly it doesn't mean that you have to forget about decent proportions even if everything will get covered up by that armor it will still serve as the base to place things on and proportions will be noticed behind the armor so beef up this guy's arms to match that big torso, they look like sticks.

for the rest keep up the good work!

04 April 2007, 01:46 PM
OK...I'm back in the game. Been away for a while.
Anyhoo....This is where i'm at.

Total redo on the face and torso. I remodeled the face to get a better likeness. I didn't do much work on the ears as they won't be visible. Think i'm nearly there. The face reference I used is of an older Clancy but his features are still youthful. We'll see how he looks after some texturing.

The helmet needs a little remodeling to fit his head.

Thats about it fo now.

Please give some C&C

Cheers ( ( ( (

04 April 2007, 11:29 AM
Shoulder pads done next..

they where a bit tricky as I didn't have much reference so I've improvised a tiny bit, but I think they are pretty close to the real deal.

As I have got most of the modeling done, I've made a mock up of the final piece in photoshop. All the colouring is just photoshop roughs not textures.

Still need to make belt, chain mail, and fur

I haven't got a clue as to how I'll be doing the fur and hair. I'm using C4D and that doesn't have a hair plugin with it. I've got 3D studio max but I don't know how to use it well. I was thinking maybe do all my modeling in C4D then go to 3Dmax to finish the hair.

I need a crash course in 3Dmax hair modeling. Anyone know any good tutorials or tips that might help me.

If I can't do this I might have to make hair with alphas from photoshop on polys but i don't think it'll give as good effect. (

04 April 2007, 07:56 PM
Great work so far. Here's a link to an awesome video tutorial on hair in 3D Max: It's over 70 megabytes but it's well worth the download.


04 April 2007, 03:45 AM
looking good... but I believe that the nose needs a llittle work.. mainly the nostrils... they don't flare out as much as you have them... and the corners of the eyes need to sag just a little bit more.. but it is your model... it is a good likeness of him... these are just details, I guess if you are viewing the model from farther off... it would be ok

good job... the armor looks great...

04 April 2007, 01:40 PM
i think that the helmet should be positioned a bit backwards.. great sculpting :) can't wait to see some more :)

04 April 2007, 03:22 PM
Was having difficulty trying to work out how I was going to do the hair. I found a free hair plug in for C4D called Hair Department. Its not as good as Shave n haircut or Hair n fur, etc. But it'll do the job. (I can't afford such expensive plugins anyway)

This is an early test to see how Hair Department works. Will have to fiddle around with the properties of the hair a bit. But it seems to work quite well. I doubt I'll be able to get the matted clumpy dirty look of the real fur though.

If anyone knows any other good free Hair plug ins for C4D please tell me about them. Or any other plugins for that matter....Thanks ( (

04 April 2007, 03:16 PM
Phew....only a few days left, think i'll make it though....


Heres where its at. Made all the components of the model. Just need to add the hair which I'll do tomorrow. I don't think i'll be doing full texturing on this model, well not in time for the deadline at any rate. I don't think its nessesary anyway.

Heres a quick render test. God knows how many polygons i've got. When the hairs on that'll be doubled at least. Hope my computer can handle it....

Any last minute C&C would be great. thanks (

04 April 2007, 09:54 PM
The armor sculpting is nice. Dial in that material and you got a winner with a little texture and bump.

04 April 2007, 12:03 AM
Thanks Firerbert. I'll see if i've got time to get a texture on. I'm having difficulty with zbrush at the moment for some reason.

Problem: I paint it in projection master as normal. but when i exit pro mast the texture shifts and looks horrible. As if it has spun around or stretched. Anyone know this problem?

Heres another update.

I made his sword. Theres an hdri map in there, hence the green reflection but i'll change that on the final render. The strapping around the hilt took me a while to work out, but the twist tool soon sorted that. Anyway hope you like it.....Hair next...YIKES!! (

04 April 2007, 02:55 AM
After you drop the object from PM, scroll over the Texture tab. First, I would try clicking "flip V" and see if that fixes it. If not, click "crop and fill" and notice if there's anything that really stands out. If you don't really notice anything, then export the texture into something like Photoshop or Gimp so you can layer on top your UV map. See if it all lines up and check your UV coordinates. Maybe there's some junk overlapping. An easy way to check for overlapping UVs in ZB is to go to Tool>Texture>UV Check. This will block out any overlapping UVs into a new texture and make them visible in 3d view. Hope this helps a little if any. Fortunately, less than a month till ZB3. Unfortunately, the challenge ends before then. Blarg.

04 April 2007, 10:53 AM
Thanks again. I'll give that a blast see if it works.

Update: Hair done using Hair department. Which is basically a more in depyh matrix extrude tool. So its pretty hard to get a good effect going. Nearly there though... (

04 April 2007, 06:52 PM
Roberto's Bullhorn: One week to go! ( Just an FYI.

04 April 2007, 03:38 PM
Ok...Time for a splash of colour. Few things to do then I'm finished I think.

Can anyone help me with this problem?

I exported my torso model from C4D back into Zbrush, Then after i'd done some touch up work I exported it back again. But when the new model came back it now looks ''Dirty'' if there are any lights in the scene. Does anyone know the reason?

Heres a couple of test renders. Only difference is specular on armour and lighting set up.

Please let me hear your comments as I've looked at it soooo long I need a fresh pair of eyes to see any faults. Thanks (

04 April 2007, 11:53 PM
Righty oh....

I think this'll probably be my last update. (unless I find something else that needs sorting out...). I have got a couple of little things to sort out. But thats it really. Then rendering off the relevant pictures for submission.
Anyway....I made a scene for the bust, its maybe in a museum, armoury or a private collection I can't decide.

PLEASE, gimme any comments you have. Good or Bad I'd still love to hear them. So I can address any issues before deadline.

This isn't a final render. I Hope you like it.... (

05 May 2007, 12:20 PM
looks good. I would change the font on the plaque. Perhaps Arial or Verdana. You don't see Times New Roman or similar on those kind of things (at least, I haven't seen them in the Met).

Perhaps you could go for a darker theme. Stone wall, or a dark red velvet. Dark carpet, like this is a private collection in some old mansion. Just an idea.

05 May 2007, 08:10 PM
YAY!!...I'm finished.

Phew...That was a toughy (why I picked a model with so many elements to it, I'll never know). Anyway...

I've learnt a great deal since starting this model. I maybe was aiming a little high for my first ever entry here. But I muddled through. Maybe I'll pick an easier concept next time..erm.....NAH!, I like the pressure and its the best way to learn...anyhoo...


I think I got a good likeness of Clancy with my model. Although it did take a 2nd attempt to get him right. Having said that, you can hardly see him anyway, under all that armour. I'm very happy with the armour and sword also. I'm new to Zbrush really and I have a great deal to learn. I found sculpting the armour great fun. And finally being able to paint straight onto a model is very cool. The hair I did using a C4D plugin called Hair Department, Not a brilliantly good hair modeler but I think it works for this project. I'll probably have C4D10 for next time and that comes with Shave and Haircut, I'm told.

Anyway, Here it is, Thanks to all the people who gave their C&C. It proved very useful. (

05 May 2007, 08:34 PM
Great job, Stinger! Love the armor too, Nicely done!

05 May 2007, 07:13 PM
Heres the finished renders for submission.

I've really enjoyed this competition and I hope to enter more in the future. My creative juices have been over flowing since starting this. Now I've got about 6 projects I want to do, so hopefully i'll be in the next HMC. Anyhoo....

Final Beauty Images. ( (

Torso with Armour (Wires dont show much due to High poly count)





Torso Nude





Textured Torso




HI-RES direct link

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