View Full Version : HMC 8 Maximus Decimus Meridius - full model

03 March 2007, 07:38 PM
Ok, finally its time to start work again, this comps are awesome and i feel like learning alot from them, besides there is alot of talented artists in here, and is always cool to hang around with the good guys. :D
This is my 3rd Hard Core Modelling, and my main goal with this one is to learn Maya. All my previous work has been done with max and some zbrush ( on the lion for the 6 HMC ), so this time will be Maya and luckly MudBox.
I hv installed maya and hv to say that im struggling with the viewport controls, hopefully i will get used to it soon, mudbox uses the same controls so its better to learn soon.
I decided to start with Gladiator, for is a very cool character, and i love the armor design he uses while he fights for the roman army. My objective is to do the character as he is before the first battle in the movie... it will be quite difficult to see all the details of the armor, but hopefully ( with alot of frame by frame analysis ) i will be able to work on the armor.
Since its my first time with a different app, and i really need to learn it fast, i will try to work on it as much as possible, since i dont hv a job and school will hv a huge break for ¨semana santa¨ i think i can work on it at least 10 hours a day. if i finish the character i will try to do the ghostbuster one.
Ok guys, lets hv fun, and i count with all your coments and critiques.

03 March 2007, 03:26 PM
OK, after a long and boring defrag on my hard disk i can finally start work on this project. First thing was to get the dvd and take some frames of it as references. After that i gathered them in photoshop so i can look at alot of references at once while i sculpt. So those are the 2 reference files i did. The original version has a bigger resolution, but i had to resize it to upload to imageshack.
References 1

References 2

03 March 2007, 03:50 PM
nice!!...I can already tell that your entry will be a goodOne....:thumbsup:


03 March 2007, 04:57 PM
all right andre, looks like I am not the only one doing armor (for the brits - armour) - I look forward to seeing your progress, especially since you have soooo much time to commit to it ;o)

Which maximus have you decided on - or are you going to do a mixture? - I personally like the opening scene maximus.

Good luck,


03 March 2007, 05:23 PM
Hey guys thnks for the kind words.
I hv decided for the opening maximus, as his armos is awesome ( thats the reason i hv lots of pictures of it ). Yeah, i hope to hv all that time to work on it, but my main goal is to get used to maya, and right now is quite frustrating... wish my brain could forget max for a while, everytime i right click waiting for the quad menus.. Exist a way to do a ¨connect¨ on maya? i use it alot in max, and use the split polygons just to connect 2 faces is not the best way to do ( i hope ).
I hope to post a wip image later, right now is sooooo messy that im ashamed to show anything :P

03 March 2007, 06:27 PM
- I personally like the opening scene maximus.

sameHere....nice armor too....

As for Maya, if you have anyQuestions, just ask....I use the program....but when/if you sure to say what you're trying to do and not the actual term used in don't know Max, so I won't be able to transfer what the term means in Maya.....


03 March 2007, 06:40 PM
HAHAHAHA LOL, how stupid am i. ok, what i am trying to do is to create a edge connecting 2 vertices, for example, a quad and when u select the 2 oposing vertices and do a connect it makes 2 triangles.
U can also use the connect to divide a face, for example, u hv 2 oposing edges and when u do connect, it divides the face in 2 ( or more ) creating 2 quads.
is there a way to see the edges of the model highlighted while working, cuz i have duplicated the model but when i work in one side, the other side doesnt show the edges.
is there a way to select loops and rings? cuz those things are very easy to do ( and helps alot while working ).
thnx for the help mate.

03 March 2007, 08:33 PM
HAHAHAHA LOL, how stupid am i. ok, what i am trying to do is to create a edge connecting 2 vertices, for example, a quad and when u select the 2 oposing vertices and do a connect it makes 2 triangles.

You select the splitPoly tool from the polygon shelf, and the RMB to one corner of your polyFace and then RMB to the opposite corner and hit return.

U can also use the connect to divide a face, for example, u hv 2 oposing edges and when u do connect, it divides the face in 2 ( or more ) creating 2 quads.

You use the same method as above, but you slide the cut to the middle of the face (maya will snap to the exact middle as default) RMB will let you position the first placement and after you let go you can use MMB to move the cut (but only the current vertice).

is there a way to select loops and rings? cuz those things are very easy to do ( and helps alot while working ).

you select one of the edges of your loop and under the select menu you can choose select continuous edges.

About that other thing you were talking about - if you press the space button, you will get maya's hotBox menu and from there execute all of your options.


03 March 2007, 08:39 PM
HAHAHAHA LOL, how stupid am i. ok, what i am trying to do is to create a edge connecting 2 vertices, for example, a quad and when u select the 2 oposing vertices and do a connect it makes 2 triangles.
U can also use the connect to divide a face, for example, u hv 2 oposing edges and when u do connect, it divides the face in 2 ( or more ) creating 2 quads.
is there a way to see the edges of the model highlighted while working, cuz i have duplicated the model but when i work in one side, the other side doesnt show the edges.
is there a way to select loops and rings? cuz those things are very easy to do ( and helps alot while working ).
thnx for the help mate.

use the strokes...

do right click (and hold) and then move the mouse in any direction (up, down, right, left... 8 with the corners) and then move again in any direction...

for instance, right click (don't have to wait until the box appear) down-right (quickly) and release the click... That's it!
You can do all kind of combinations, like down-left -» down-right or UP-»Right...

I've used both (max and maya) in my professinal carrer, but if I have to chose one for modelling... Max+Polyboost = Amazing modelling tools!

03 March 2007, 08:48 PM
looks like Marcus beat me to it.....:wise:

is there a way to see the edges of the model highlighted while working, cuz i have duplicated the model but when i work in one side, the other side doesnt show the edges.

in your'll see some menus....View, Show,'ll see some shading options...the one you're looking for is "wifeFrame onShaded"....that shuold give you the look you want....and to help you w/ your modeling....I suggest getting this ( <- or -> this (,shop.product_details/category_id,7/flypage,software-flypage/product_id,35/option,com_virtuemart/)

The first one is free and veryGood....the second isn't, but muchBetter....but there is a trail...


03 March 2007, 11:55 PM
Hey, thank you very much guys. im doing the split polygon way, but i think its much slower than what i was used to do in max ( but i really believe is cuz im not used to it yet ). Binder, the plugging u sent me is awesome, thnx, i just wish to hv better icons for them, right now im using the default mel icons, but after i get used to the positions they are in the shelf, wont b a problem.
Hey sergio, thnx for the tip, but i dont know if im doing it right, everytime i hold the right buttom, appears the menu to select vertex, edges and so far ( was this what u were talking about?).
Its been really hard to get used to maya, but i think it was better than i thought it would be, i really miss the quadmenus ( i used to change from move, rotate and scale from there )
anyway, thnx for the help guys, will upload a wip image and cook my dinner, might work a litle more on it until i go to bed.

03 March 2007, 01:03 AM
Hey sergio, thnx for the tip, but i dont know if im doing it right, everytime i hold the right buttom, appears the menu to select vertex, edges and so far ( was this what u were talking about?).

Yes, but it's the next step. so... once you are in edge mode you select an edge and then you do the stroke, how?

hold RMB and SHIFT (or CONTROL or ALT, I don't remember very well, but anyway try pressing different keys to get different options)
do down-right -> down-left
like this shape with the movement of the mouse:


and leave the mouse without click anything.
do it quickly, don't wait to anything.

there are other strokes, depending on what type of subobject you are (vertices, edges, polygons...) or if you are in the object you can switch to subobject. it changes with different type of objects as well.

so you can do:

/ / / _/
\ | /

every one of them do something, and it has sense the position so if I remember well it is like...
down-right edgeloop
down-left edgering

if after that you do...
down-right select (no matter if you are in loop or ring)
down-left split (no matter if you are in loop or ring)
sort of, because I've been without using maya for a few months now.
but I can tell you, if you want to model in Maya then start to learn the strokes or you are lost (tip :thumbsup: ).

03 March 2007, 01:16 AM
duuuude, thats really sweet. thnks alot, need to learn how to use this, but the potential is huuuuge. thnx again.

03 March 2007, 02:31 AM
Try to avoid faces that are not 4 sides, it will help to keep your mesh clean so you can use easily ring and loop, you wont get odd artifacts when you subdivide the mesh and it will be much better for sculpting.

you're wellcome

03 March 2007, 11:49 AM
Hey Sergio, thnx for the tips, i was going to clean up the mesh later on, i like to keep the modelling flow and dont care that much for 4 sided faces while modelling, i try to get the sillouete done first ( and since in games we only use tris, i dont care that much for having a tri here or there ), when i get bored i go back and start cleaning up the mesh ( i wish i was better at puzzles, sometimes its extremly hard to get rid of some anoing tris, when u get rid of one, it creates another... frustrating hehe :D ).
Anyway, would like to post another wip image, critiques would be very welcomed.
Question, is it better to merge the mesh now, or should i uvmap it first?
Is it easy to separate the left side from the right later on? Isnt there any tool like symetry on max?

03 March 2007, 05:13 PM
I'm curious, would that pattern result in an upside down U shaped artifact in his forehead? As far as problem solving the triangles out through the split poly / delete edge process, since your still on the low poly version, it may be easier to just delete the problem faces and remodel that part. Since you'll still have all the surrounding modeled out, you'll only have to repush and pull maybe 20% of the vertices as opposed to spliting, deleting, searching for lone vertices, deleting, double checking, I find it's easier and quicker anyway.

side note here, I have watched Gladiator probably several times a week now for a couple months (funny how often you watch something just based on the fact it's sitting in your dvd drive) while modeling and I never noticed how big Russels nose was until I modeled out his face (which I think I've abandoned for a different path for now). Just had to toss that in.

03 March 2007, 10:22 PM
Hey Vicktorious,im kinda worried aswell, i was trying to avoid increase the number of polys, but i think i will rework on it, maybe bring to the top of the head, since the hair will cover it up anyway.

Hey guys hv being working on the body, not sure if the arms are too small, maybe when i do the hands it will look better. Im starting to get the hang of the camera control, but i really dont get why maya uses the shift to add things to a selection and cntrl to subtract it... dammm everytime i do a mess with my selections.
here is the wip

03 March 2007, 11:01 PM
Oh man, you are going to be finished in a couple of days. Nice clean mesh. How are you going to handle those tough elements - like beard, fur on armor, etc.?


03 March 2007, 11:24 PM
Nah, i dont think i will finish it soon, the rigg of this will be really hard, rigg was hard in max, i cant imagine how hard it will be on maya... Not sure yet, i guess i will use the fur plugging for the wolf, the hair im planning to model , and the beard i may do sith texture and bump, but if the fur plugging runs well on this laptop i may use it aswell... hvnt thought much about it yet.

03 March 2007, 11:36 PM
Fur tutorial - link will not work unless you are registered (but it's free)

just to bookmark for the future:


03 March 2007, 02:22 AM
I'm sorta in the opposite boat as you, learned on maya and have been learning a bit of max (though I'm using maya for this challenge.) A few key hotkeys that should help out a great deal.

ctrl+shift will add to selection, shift will add and remove if you select something you already have selected, ctrl will remove of course.

if you hold down v while moving say a vertex, it will snap to whatever vertex your mouse is closest to. you must hold down v before the move.

x will do the same thing as v except it snaps to grid instead of point.

Smooth Shade all - 5 (this is the highlight equivelent of max. what max's perspective is default)
Wireframe - 4
repeat last action - g
repeat last tool - y
Attribute Editor - ctrl+a
reference editor(unsure if that's what its called right now) - hit ctrl+a twice

figured if you didnt know a few of these they'll help tremendously. They are probably my most used default hotkeys. learning to use g to repeat your last action (extrude for instance) can cut down your time exponentially.

One more that I've been using lately is alt+` it'll convert your poly to sub d, followed by hitting 3 (smooths the look of the sub d) will allow you to quickly see what your smoothed box will look like and then just undo out of it with ctrl+z for quick reference shots. Be warned however, sometimes (for me anyway) maya will freak out and totally screw up your mesh. You'll end up with something inbetween a poly and a sub d mesh and you'll pretty much have to resort back to your last save. I just made it a habit of hitting ctrl+s before converting to save heartache and get in a habit of always having a recent save.

Just a few pointers and techniques to hopefully help ya if you didnt know em already.

If you have any questions about maya don't be afraid to ask. I know what a pain it is to try to figure out the differences between max and maya. It's no fun at all.

03 March 2007, 09:35 AM
Hey man, thnx for the tips, it will help alot for sure. Some of those i already knew and i had that problem you mentioned about converting a mesh to subD. it totally screw up my mesh, unfortunatly i didnt save ( hv to get to the habbit to save all the time, i was so used to the autosave of max ) so i lost allot of time to learn how to get my geometry back.
luckly i did got it back by converting the SubD to polygon using the lowest level ( but dont know y it doubled my faces, so i had to delete all the model once ). I hv noticed that the subD is a bit different than the polygon with a smoth, is it better? I dont think max polygons are like that ( i hv never used like that anyway ), question, is it lilke zbrush geometry where u hv levels and u can modify the under level and keeps the changes you did in the higher level? What are faster to render, polys or subDs?
Is there any tool like max symetry? i really wished to hv the connect tool ( its funny cuz a few months ago i didnt use the connect at all on max, but afetr i get used to it, its extremly tedious to use to slice polygon tool to do things that you could do just pressing a button ).
i hv to say that im quite impressed with the stability of maya though, hvnt had any crash since i started the model, probably max would hv crashed at least once on me. How do i display the polycount on maya?
thnks for the tips again man, im learning much faster with the help of you guys. thnks alot.

03 March 2007, 10:29 AM
Sub D in Maya isn't quite like modeling in Zbrush, but it has some similarities. You can go up and down in detail by holding right click and selecting display smoother or coarser. However, sometimes vertices won't show up until you move a vertex adjacent to it and it at times leaves alot of minute detail that wont go away with display coarser.

I've always found that Sub-D's render faster than Poly meshes, however I find modeling in Poly to be easier which is why I constantly switch back and forth. Whether or not you plan to use Sub-D as your final result can contribute greatly in modeling. Example:

Say you model a poly box and convert it to sub d. you get a sphere, however if you select all of the edges and choose full crease edge/vertex in the sub d menu, you get a box again. with partial crease you can get a rounded edged box while not having to bevel anything or manually create a rounded edge. And you keep it at a 6 poly object when in poly mode.

The big difference between Sub-D and Smooth imo is with smooth you have the ability to revert back to a 0 division smooth (origional mesh) and quickly hop back to a 1 or 2 or 3 division smooth. I don't personally use smooth very often so I don't know if you can use it like Zbrush where you hop from 0 division to 1 division etc. . . and go backwards. You may lose the finer details I'm unsure. However If you go this route, be warned. If you plan to change the smooth levels based on the origional mesh, DO NOT DELETE HISTORY. you'll lose the smooth dialog in the history.

To display the poly count in maya, you go to Display menu, Heads up Displays, Poly count. In maya "Faces" are used instead of Polys.

Base maya doesn't have a symmetry tool that I'm aware of, however I believe the plug in, MJs Poly tools has it, not 100% sure as I don't currently have it anymore, but either way, A lot of modelers in maya swear by MJs poly tools plugin, though I think you have to pay for it.

Oh and one more tidbit of troubleshooting when working with Sub-D.

Occasionally when switching between poly mode and Standard mode (hold rightclick on a sub d) it will rarely leave the Poly wireframe ontop of the mesh. Very annoying and at first you may think you have to go back to a save to get rid of it, however I stumbled across a method to dispatch it. Duplicate the mesh, move the duplicate out of the way so you can easily select all the faces at once. Then select both the origional and the duplicate, go to sub d menu, attatch surfaces, delete the old meshes and the attatched surface mesh will be without the annoying poly wireframe. Then all you have to do is go into poly mode, Delete all the faces from the duplicate and your good to go. As long as you don't move the attatched surfaces, your fixed mesh will be exactly where it began. Sounds painful but it's easy once you know how to do it.

03 March 2007, 05:00 PM
Arent SubDs slower to render because they have to be converted to polys at render time anyway?

03 March 2007, 05:33 PM
Arent SubDs slower to render because they have to be converted to polys at render time anyway?

To be honest, I think they render out equally (in software render), unless someone was doing an unfair test like a 150k poly candlestick next to a 10k subD version of the same candlestick. Anyway subD's don't really work in Mental Ray so whats the point - everyone will probably be using misss_fast skin anyway.


03 March 2007, 12:01 AM
Hey guys, thnxs for the tips, i will be using normal polygons them, hv cleaned the model and its all quads ( exept from one triangle, but i dont think he will mess to much my model ), now i wonder, should i open the uvs, or model the model into mudbox?
The thing is that when i model it on mudbox, i will re-export the lowest level, so could i do the uvs later on and send the model back to mud with the uvs, and dont lose the modifications?
another question, how do i export an obj from maya? i looked into the exporters, but couldnt find, do i hv to download it? or is it hidden somewhere else.
the wip image

03 March 2007, 12:16 AM
For the OBJ export, jump to window/SettingsPreference/Plugin Manager and check the objExport.mll box

Really good start however :thumbsup:

03 March 2007, 12:26 AM
Hey man, thnx alot, i would never guess that. Why they dont make it auto loaded by default??, anyway, thnx alot.
About your thread, it looks great, i hope its ok to enter, u hv a good mesh going on, will be interesting to see how the zbrush model turns out. i will keep an eye on it.

03 March 2007, 08:34 AM
hey andre,

nice update, my only crits are the proportions seem to be a bit off, Maximus is pretty tall. Are you using units to measure him? The mesh looks really great and clean, wait till you see my "polyCube turns into a body thing".

maya does not have a lot of things pre-loaded, I think this is great as it is more RAM for the workflow, for not having all of that stuff loaded, which you do not need - more end control.


03 March 2007, 10:27 AM
Hey Diablos, im using this image as a size reference, i measured it with his head in photoshop and its around 6,5 heads tall, i noticed that in the picture he is not straight on, so i may give him more half head and make it 7, but i dont think he is that much tall... i think the image we hv in our brains about maximus is a bit disleading, for image angles enphasize alot on size perception.
I will try to uv map him today, but first need to study how to do that, i will start to work in his armor when i hv the body done, here is the image i used to measure him.

03 March 2007, 10:44 AM
ahh ok,

uv texturing there are some tuts on the AREA (did you register?) and there are some good threads right here at CGS.

you can also check this out - it's free and the videos show you how to use it. I am going to either use this method or I may just stick with the UV map texture editor.


03 March 2007, 05:32 PM
Keep them coming and thanks for the reference. I hope to start my thread soon :)

03 March 2007, 05:37 PM
Hey, glad u brought the trhead back for the ashes hehe, hv being really sick lately and just now that im starting to recover myself, so i hvnt touched the model in a looooooong while.
I just discovered that i hv a paper work due by thursday, so will only be able to go back to the comp after thursday, but in meanwhile i enjoy reading other ppl therads and work, this comp has a really high level and im learning alot from it.
Looking foward to see your post jojo.

03 March 2007, 11:31 AM
Alright, im back in buisness, finally i finished the homeworks i had and desides a website i hv to do, im all for the challenge.
After a long break away from maya, i finally got my hands dirty again, and i must say that it felt less clumbsy than i thought it would be ( i think im starting to get the hang of it :D ). I finished the base mesh, added a litle more details to his face, and did the boring uv, now its time to sculpt him.
Let me know what you think


Face close up.

03 March 2007, 02:12 PM
You should do something with his shoulders before sculping I think :)... and the neck is too long and too large at the start... The rest seems ok.

03 March 2007, 03:33 PM
it's look good for base mesh , but I thing something wrong with the body .
I don't know how tall or short he is , but the arms look a bit too long .
if you compare it to the legs .
other than that and what "hardwork" mention it's look quite nice .
waiting to see some great sculpting here ....,

03 March 2007, 04:17 PM
good baseMesh..:thumbsup:....I would like to see a front and sideView of yourModel and the references you're using....I think you can go further with the baseMesh you have there w/out adding more geometry to it.....

as mentioned before, there's something a lil off about it.....good job tho....


03 March 2007, 06:23 PM
Hey guys thnx alot for the coments,
Hardwork - you were right, the neck was too long, fixed it, let me know what u think. What you mean by fixing the shoulders?
Doch - hey man, thnx, shortened the lenght of the arms, and will re-export the mesh to play with it. I hv played with an earlier mesh, and sculpting is alot of fun, i hope my model meets your expectations :)
Binder - Hey Binder, the references im using are those 2 image planes at the side of the model ( plus the huge reference image i did, that stays open in the second monitor ). I used the front and side view to build the base, and now im eye guessing it, for its more fun and i think it can help improve my ¨view¨ability ( at least im trying :P).
Here is the base mesh as it is now, i rounded more his face to get more of his fat.
let me know what u think

03 March 2007, 06:52 PM
when hardWork was talking about the shoulders?...this is what I think he meant...( see paintOver ) . (

...I hope you don't mind...but I've made few tweaks on your baseMesh....this could be wrong since I didn't use anyRefs to do this....but I think it makes him a lil more balanced....

...leftSide is before, the right is what I added to the shoulders and other places.....


03 March 2007, 02:38 AM
the face seems a bit off to me....i can't see russ...

03 March 2007, 10:10 AM
Base mesh looks fine if you are going to sculpt to get the likeness, but the shoulders need fixing, they are far too thin where they connect to the torso.

03 March 2007, 11:39 PM
Hey guys, thnx alot for the coments, did some work on the model, kinda getting bored of work on him now, will start on the costume. would be great to hear your opinion.

04 April 2007, 12:40 AM
Here is a face screenshot, i figured it was hard to see in the previous post. I also did some changes to it. Not sure yet how to make the facial hair, if i should model it as a geometry or use a hair plugging. I thin the hair and eyebrows would be cool to model it as gemoetry, but dont think the beard will look good. anyway, thats it for today.

04 April 2007, 07:37 AM
Here something to help you to define body structure ,
I see you also made the top of the head a little too wide - it's kinda look strange
that way . (

04 April 2007, 08:07 PM
Hey Doch, thnx for the reference, but im not planning in spend much time on the body details, for the character will be using alot of clothes. Russel has a more bulcky body, his muscles arent very defined on the film, thats what i was trying to convey, more trying to get the shape closer so i can start to model the armor on it.
Here is a wip of the face, i started to break up the symetry and try to get into an expression. The look im going is for the scene before the batle against the germans, right in the beggining of the movie, when he spots the litle bird in the woods.
I selected some faces of the model to hv a better idea of how it will look when i add hair to him. Would be great to hear your opinion on it.

04 April 2007, 12:34 AM
alright, i did the hair in a separated layer ( gotta love mudbox ) and took a printscreen. I tweeked the proportions a litle bit on photoshop, and i dont know wich one is better, the right or the left one. I hv a serious problem to make all my models really thin so it would be awesome to hear other ppl opinion on it.
here ya go ( also let me know if you think the hair modelled works )

04 April 2007, 07:45 AM
The right looks better - the left one is too fatty (if there is a word like this)
I search for some image to help you define his face more , now I know how much it's hard to find russell pictures in the internet :). ( (

04 April 2007, 08:37 PM
Hey doch, thnx alot man i followed your opinion and stuck with the face from the right, i also moved a litle bit his jaw up and tryed to get a more rounded face. it would be great if you can point where i can work to improve the likeness ( you can do a paintover by all means ).
This is how the face is looking, i moved the corner of the lips a litle bit up to enphasize more the slight smile on his face. Let me know what u think

04 April 2007, 08:50 PM
it's coming along.....but it's too round now...try to get it more like what Doch posted.. ( lowerRight image or middle upperImage ) make the chinWider, .....and there's something about the eyes....I can't put myFinger on it, but there's something more you can do with the eyeArea.....his lips are fuller in the lowerRight image, but thinner everywhere I guess you should try to get an average....but since it's Maximus you're doing......go for the one on the lowerRight.....


04 April 2007, 12:48 AM
Hey Binder, thnx man i tried to apply the suggestions you gave me, the chin really improved being wider, tried to give more expression to his eyes, also define a small bag he has under the eyes, let me know if you think its better.

04 April 2007, 03:03 PM
Hey "AnderKling" sorry for the late reply . it's starting good and as "Binder" said somehow
it's hard to see the resemble here .
so I took your pic and done some PS sculpting if I can call that that way :),
and I tried to find the curves that define Russell .
so here what I find up :
1. the lines that runs through the chick are starting much higher at the nose point .
2. your eyebrows are too thick
3. I had to stretch a little bit your head to make it fit the pic so it's mean your head
need to be stretch a little bit .
4. the lips area need more work cus I needed to tweak this area alot .
5. and lastly the beard near his mouth going down in a strieght line .

hope it's not to much and I hope it help you somehow .
I've added my a pic that show what I have done and a pic with some curve to help
you out . (

04 April 2007, 01:08 AM
Hey doch, thnx alot for your coments man, its really helping..
The thing is that im not going for that expression, im more trying to get his slight smile, therefore the chick should go a litle bit upper...
I tryed to work in the things u mentioned, the hair is really bugging me, i think the best thing to do is to make it in a different geometry, for i would hv to move it alot. I think the head could be a litle bit taller, but that i think its better to do in the hair geo if i do it.
I scaled down a litle bit the eyes, i think it looks better, but i may be mislead for being working on it, so a second ( third...) opinion would be greatly apreciated.
Here is the model so far.
Keep up with the great coments :D

04 April 2007, 02:29 AM
That's coming along great! I think you should try to get a likeness before giving him an expression. It looks better now that you moved the eyes closer together but maybe a little more. And the hairline is still too low. And he has a really distinct shape to his upper lip that will be key to getting a likeness. And even though his chin is furry and its difficult to see, he has an indentation in the middle of his chin. Hope that helps. Keep up the good work!

04 April 2007, 09:51 PM
Another update, i changed a few things on the basic structure of the face, reworked the eyes a bit, and added the chin indentation that hazzadus suggested. I sent the mesh to max to render an image to see how shadows would be in the model. I know it should hv being in maya, but since its not final, wouldnt want spend too much time learning to do a basic light setup.
Max almost crashed, so, i believe that displacement is the way to go. Hv to learn how to do it propely ( never done hehe ). Will follow the amazing video tutorial of a dinossaur from maya to mudbox ( if u hvnt seen it yet, u should, its really good ). but since the guy is an expert in maya, he is quite fast sometimes, so i hv to see the movie almost frame by frame to see where he cliked hehe.
Anyway, here it is... the ears are bugging me, i will rework them. Planning to model a second and third layer of hair.
C&C very welcomed, and thnx alot by the great critiques u guys are gaving me, i think the model is progressing alot thnx to you guys.

04 April 2007, 01:13 PM
It's starting to look like him .
I can see him in the mouth area but the top area and eyes need a little more tweaking ,
yep.. the only way to make a working workflow between applications are disp'
or normal maps no other way I guess :)

04 April 2007, 01:21 PM
Alright, i did some major changes on the head shape, moved the chin foward and reworked the overall shape. Also i shortened the head and rework the prportions to the body. Ould love to hear what you guys think of it, if i was better with the last version, or if i should keep with this one.

04 April 2007, 04:07 PM
it's lookin pretty good but I don't think that you have captured him yet...

looking at the comparison that you had earlier I don't know if you've worked on them since... the eyes, and eyebrows look like they go out too far... that may take some of the roundness out of the face...

the head shape itself looks good, and the details are good aswell... keep it up I think you will catch him...

04 April 2007, 10:27 PM
I think the eyes, nose, and cheeks need to be tweaked a bit more. Keep fighting.

04 April 2007, 06:42 PM
I worked a litle more on it, hope its better. i noticed that my uvs are bad for the face now, so will try to recreate it and bring it back to mudbox ( not sure how it will work though, maybe i hv to export each level and them reimport each as a layer to the new model with better uvs, hope it works ). I will try to do it now, and see if i can manage to get a displacement version of it before bed time. if it works, i may rigg him tomorrow as the main features shouldnt change much now.
I can always do a blend shape to the latest model just to get the last minor changes. After he is rigged, i will start to work on his armor.
Let me know if you think the head is better now.

04 April 2007, 03:51 AM
Well... I do'no , I think he looking now less good than before .
maybe it the left eyes that too much down I think .

in mudbox it's very easy to recreate your UV
1.export you highest level as obj
2.take your mesh base and make it a new uv .
3.load your base mesh and pick the bake disp option
pick it as your low resolution mesh
for the highest resolution mesh load you highest obj mesh you exported earlier
4.bake your map.

a note : to get the best result you should do a uv to level 1 or 2 mesh and do as above .

hope it help.

04 April 2007, 03:44 PM
Hey doch, thnx for the tips regarding the uvs, unfortunatly it didnt work. Matter of fact, nothing that i tried worked, so i had to rebuild my base mesh and do it again. i used the level 1 of mud as a reference and reworked my previous base mesh ( it had somethings that bothered my alot, so i took some polys of ). Re uvmapped it and rexported to mud. Today i just started playing around with mud on it.
For this new model, i separated the head from the body, so i can hv a higher subdivision on mudbox, and i will also use 2 maps instead of 1.
I hv tried to export a normal and a displacement map from it, but i only get error messages, so im thinking in export the model and extract them from within max.
I may actually make this a game model, for it would be a nice peace for my reel.
anyway, would love to hear your opinion on the new head model.

04 April 2007, 04:05 PM
lol...that's funny, b/c I've started over with myModel for this baseMesh, it's much better than the other I would recommend taking it slow....working each feature one at a time ( hide all the faces, and focus on the the same for the nose...for theEyes....etc..etc.. ) trying to work on the model as a whole can be veryDistracting.....

...just my 2cents...


04 April 2007, 05:50 PM
i agree this model looks much better than the other one... I can really see russell crowe in it... happy modeling

04 April 2007, 09:05 PM
Hey guys thnx alot for the encouraging words. im much happier with this new head aswell, maybe if i do a 3rd one it will look even better :P. Anyway i hv played a litle on mud and exported it to bake in max. I hv no clue how to do a displacement map in max, so if anybody has a link to a tutorial would be great, meanwhile i played with normal mapping and it lookes ok for a 1700 head, probably will add some planes for hair and bring it to 2000.
Im hopping to hv the full model up to 7k maximun, hopefully 6k, so i will start to work on his armor and give a break to his head, so i can hv a fresher look to it.
Anyway, renderd the low head with the nowmal map aplied on max
would love to hear the opinion of u guys

04 April 2007, 02:06 AM
the new head is starting to look alot more like Russ, however those shoulders look like he has some major shoulder pad action going on....they might need to be a bit smaller...

04 April 2007, 04:28 AM
Much better! Making good progress now!

04 April 2007, 11:12 AM
Hey guys thnx for the coments, robo, the shoulder looks like that cuz his arms are up, so the clavicle is up a litle bit, i believe that when rigged it will work, but anyway he will be using a full armor set, so u wouldnt see the shoulders anyway hehe they are there just cuz roberto said we had to model the naked version before doing the props on it.
Hv started on the armor, i hope it works well with normal mapping, will do a test on max later today, and if the result is ok i post here aswell, just wanted to show the progress so far.
Hey Kraken, your conan is totally awesome, a few years ago i tried to make a conan, never finished it, would love to reanimate that scene in the beach after the womans funeral where he do some amazing movements with that freaking sword. Badass movie, looking foward to your updates

04 April 2007, 05:38 PM
Alright, did some more work in the front part of the armor, and exported to max. I hv to say that im quite impressed with the normal map, its working quite well, i think this will be my best normal mapped character for my reel. Now i should start on the underneath cloth.
here is a render of the low mesh with normal maps.

04 April 2007, 05:50 PM
he's really coming along.. but to me his head looks a little boyish.. though you can really see him in it... keep it up... I think it is just the shape of his head... I think it is the jaw line.. that I can see...

but the breast plate looks really good... keep it up...

04 April 2007, 06:00 PM
Hey morphius, im also not sure about the face, there is something in there that doesnt look right, but i cant put my finger on it, so meanwhile i will finish his costume, so i can leave my brain rest abit from his face.
the breat plate was really fun to make, im not sure how im gonna do all the ropes he has in the armor, im worried it will look weird in the normal map.. bah, will leave it to when i get there.
thnx for the coment mate, will take a look at his jaw line.

04 April 2007, 09:09 PM
Okay, i hv worked on his armor, and filled a 1024x1024 map, so this model will use 2 maps, will start working in the models that will share the second map with the face ( cloak, sword, and things for the face like eyeball, hair.... ).
I have modelled the helmet, and alot of stuff that im not planning to add for the final image, cuz this model goes to my game reel ( and is so much fun to do all the relieves in his costume =) ). but for the final image im planning to make a diorama of the scene ater the battle with the germans, ( where he has no helmet, nor cloack ).
anyway, just wanted to show the progress so far. i tossed a simple color map just to separate all the parts of his armor.
C&C is welcomed

04 April 2007, 01:11 AM
The face is looking pretty good but I think you should refine his body proportions. His head is too big and the arms seems to be long (but i'm not sure about arms).

04 April 2007, 07:01 PM
Hey, a coment from you is an honor, your russel looks great mate.
Somehow the proportions got messed out when i did the new head, but nothing that some scaling here and there couldnt fix ( thnx man ). I hv made it so he is 6.5 heads tall, and aslo finished modelling his acessories, the model is almost 6k tris ( the polycount i was aiming at ), still hv to model teeth, and that small gold thing he has in the belt that holds the sword.
This was the first time i did real time fur, so its not as good as it could be, but i liked the result so far.
I probably will finish modelling today, and tomorrow, is rigging time ( tired of Davinci pose ), i did a test to see if the arms were short, but i think they look ok, so will ask your guys opinion after he is rigged.
Anyway, here is the model.

04 April 2007, 05:05 PM
Okay, i hv started to paint some texture for the model, im planning to rework in the high poly model, to add some wrincles ( spelling??) and increase that thing he has in his forehead, after that i will rebake a normal map.
This is a first pass on the difuse map, i putted the model with 20% self ilumination to decrease the hard shadow of the normal map. The hair needs alot of work, and i may increase the volume in the sides.
Does anybody know how can i make the alpha opacity of max to work propely? right now it only works with black and white, gray tons get alot of white ( hv no clue where from) in the render. In the viewport it works fine, just when i render that it screw up, and i cant display normal map on my laptop, so i hv to render to see how the model looks like.
Anyway, if anybody has a tip to solve this problem would be greaaat. here is the model, im trying not to paint light information on the difuse for i want to try a specular map to see how it looks, but probably i will add a layer with some light info to the dif map later on.

04 April 2007, 06:32 PM
Roberto's Bullhorn: One week to go! (

Just an FYI.


04 April 2007, 06:34 PM
Roberto's Bullhorn: One week to go! (

Just an FYI.


04 April 2007, 07:43 PM
I hv painted the maps and rigged the model, im not sure if the specular map is working well, i want to do a after war version with blood and dirty all over him, and whitout the helmet that he loses right in the beggining of it.
This contest went very fast, but i had alot of fun, and received freat coments from you guys, so im happy about how this model ended up. It has a litle more tha 5800 tris with all the equipment, if i take out the helmet and the cloack i think he might get right around 5k.
This is the first time i do a turning table gif animation, hehe i hope to get better at doing them afterwards, but to show the model from all angles works.
Let me know what you think about the proportions, and the specular maps, and sorry for the compression of the gif, will try to figure out a better way to display animation so i can post a turning table at the end of the comp.

04 April 2007, 10:39 PM
The model looks really good.

My only problem is the helmet crest.

It looks too high.


04 April 2007, 11:41 PM
Yes the model looks great man.... but as Roberto has pointed out. The crest looks very very big.

You may already know this. But in Image ready to get better quality in gifs you need to define the colours to what your picture needs to use. erm...can't think how its done of the top of my head but if you need to know just ask. I'll hunt down the tutorial I used for it.

04 April 2007, 12:00 AM
Hey guys, thnx alot for the coments, fixing the helmet as we speek, also reworked the specular, and added a few more lights ( lighting is not my strongest point though ).
Stinger, what u told me made me very confusd, would be awesome if u could find that tutorial, but the last time i entered the hardcore modelling, imageshack took my images out of the air from bandusage when the voting started
While its wip its quite easy, but as soon as alot of ppl start to see the voting thread, i doubt it will stay online for very long, so i dont think i will be able to post the turning table on it ( unfortunatly, cuz i really liked it =( ). I may upload it to youtube and post the link.
The new crest looks much better, i think i went too much for a stilization there :) thnx guys

04 April 2007, 08:59 AM
Ok...this isn't the exact tutorial I used but it does the same thing I think.

The gifs only use 256 colours so, You need to open the colour tab and use the colour grab tool to define the mainly used colours from your image. So get loads of reds and browns from the image into the colour chart and get rid of colours that don't show in your image. If there is a particular part of the image that you want to pick up detail more, get as many colours from that area as possible.

I've only done this once so I hope you can understand what I'm on about. The youtube idea may work better though. Its possible to inbed youtube videos to forums as well. Although I haven't seen it on this website yet.

Anyway hope that helps

05 May 2007, 01:19 AM
Alright, the deadline is just around the corner, i wish i had 2 more days though. My idea was to model his dog aswell looking at him ridding the horse. doubt will hv time, still hv to do the maps for the horse.
It seams like i will hv alot of props on my final post, so would like to know if the armor can be considered as his body, since i dont hv a underneath body anymore, since i decided to do a game model and all unnecessary poly was deleted.
anyway, did a turning table ( of the model as it is right now. you tube and google sucks regarding quality of video, does anybody knows a good place to host turning tables?

05 May 2007, 11:19 PM
This is what i posted in the final submission thread


Ok, finally done, it has been a blast this contest. I have gained alot of feedback and great critiques from you guys so i have to thank you so much. I couldnt work as much as i said i would in the model ( my frined introduced me to batlefield 1942... damit ), but i did worked alot on him, and i think its possible to notice the progress on my wip thread.
I think i have seen the beginning of gladiator a zillion times, i wish i had a blue ray or HD-DVD version of it, trying to see all details of his costume, and the horse one was extremly dificult.
During the course of the project i decided that i would make this a game model, so all details were extracted from high poly objcets to create the normal maps. i tryed to keep a relatively low polycount for what would be considered a current gen model ( it has 6000 tris and uses 2 maps sets of maps with difuse, normal and specular ).
When the model was done i could hv started another model, but i couldnt resist to model his horse ( what is a general without a horse? ) so in the last 2 days i have being working on the horse. The horse has 2500 tris ( more or less ) and also uses a normal, difuse and specular map.
I have started to model his dog, but i noticed that it would be too much information, since the topic was the actor itself, so i droped it off and started to make a turning table video. I have uploaded it, but right now its still waiting the aproval, so hopefully i will edit this post with the link to it.
Anyway, it was a great comp, lots of amazing works, this hardcore modelling challenges are really awesome, maybe one day pixologic decide to sponsor one with a copy of zbrush 3 as a prize :P.
Thanxs for all the feedback
Andre Kling David

Beauty Render with difuse

Beauty without difuse

Beauty W Difuse BIG (
Beauty no Difuse BIG (







3/4 wire

Head detail

and a render with the high poly head with wire ( its level 2, since the level 4 wasnt possible to see the wires ).

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