View Full Version : C mans column !

03 March 2002, 10:22 PM
Well we cant all give him money, but some respect and real estate is possible !!!:) here is a thread for developers of plug ins, l scripts, etc! You have a suggestion or question then put it here. Maybe we can get some nice stuff from it ! last sticky i just felt these are important and often asked and searched for

And c man big thanks for all your hard work and help

03 March 2002, 12:47 AM
Hey Cerreto, thanks for the kind words. :)

03 March 2002, 01:39 AM
I am making good use of some of Cman's work on a paying gig. He can expect a donation from me shortly. Or maybe I will finally break down and get bandslice. It's only $15, and looks really useful..... I feel like I should do both..... hmmm..

For now I will just have to say THANKS! :D

Mike RB
03 March 2002, 01:56 AM

Cman's site.

03 March 2002, 02:05 AM
also c man if you have a adress we can send you somthing for those of us that dont like to send dover the web !

03 March 2002, 02:31 AM
Great space cerreto,

to be completely honest, i expect much more from guys like cman, Cim and others lscripters than newtek!!!!!!
Thanks a lot guys for making my life easier.

cman, WHERES MY SCRIPT????:scream: :confused: :wip: :annoyed:

03 March 2002, 07:01 PM
2 new ideas not that you dont get enough c man

1 tighten alot of people are wanting to size or adjust polys at an angle (constrain ) it would be cool to have a plugin that would size based on current position rather than axis if thats possible

2 record positon there are a few reasons for this one sounds wierd i know but it would utilize the undo feature i suppose

to be able to move a poly or rotate etc scale it or make adjustments then do a undo to sendit back to its origional postion keeping the changes you made

an example where this may be useful you need to wrok on multiple bevels at a 45 degree ange but you want to scale them evenly you coul d align them on a axis by moving them then constrain scale quickly and simply hit the undo /repostion toll to send it back to place with the adjustment

just some food for thought


03 March 2002, 12:25 AM
Hi Cerreto
Check out the lscript Move&Align on my site.

It's not directly able to move back, but now that I'm thinking about it, I guess I could/should make an lscript to capture the changes so a person could make a simple button in Modeler....
anyway, you can use Move&Align to fake a construction plane.
I should do a tutorial, but you move your selected items from a 45 angle to zero-Z, make changes, then run script again to move the stuff back.
To do this there is a bit of setup involved with BG layers and such, but if you're doing a lot of work, it can be decent.

Hmmm... one of these days I can adapt to a Quick-M&A, so it defaults to z-axis.
anyway, check it out and I"m sure you will figure it out.
First I need to tackle Loganarts script before he tracks me down! :D

03 March 2002, 01:54 AM
cool thanks i think i downloaded that once and actually forgot about it well keep you busy thats for sure


03 March 2002, 03:58 AM
Now have a basic save/reload feature as well as undo/redos.
Do not know where it will go or how long to finish. :(

Other things popping up. I may soon be quite busy with work!

03 March 2002, 10:47 PM
Tried out smoo nice lil plug -in but then again so are all the others youve made lol;)

03 March 2002, 08:43 AM
smoo is awesome. it is definitely going to replace smooth shift. as soon as i become unlazy enough to update to 7.0b, i'm getting bandslice, too.

i've been playing with bandsaw recently and used it to detail a chess set, so i imagine bandslice will be awesome, too.

03 March 2002, 11:00 AM
I'm glad you like the scripts I've written.
Please hold off on buying Bandslice from me, as it looks like LW7.3 will have something called BandsawPro.
It'd be best for you to see what that's all about first.

03 March 2002, 12:52 PM
check this post for a Smoo update.

04 April 2002, 12:27 PM
thx, i'll check it out.

re: bandslice vs. bandsawpro. i may not be upgrading to 7.3 for a while, and there's no telling if bandsawpro is the same or better than bandslice. so i'll probably end up buying bandslice anyway, even just to support a fellow artist

04 April 2002, 09:07 PM
Here's some feedback for you on the .9 rev.

I'm getting some error msgs when trying to use a spline again after invoking the plugin a second time

"Line 53 illegal division by zero detected"

Prompting a second time does bring up the interface.

It seems I'll have to play around a bit more to find the right orientation of splines to poly faces to get predictable results. The point order of the spline you create appears to come into play for the orientation of the shifting that occurs. Scaling is a bit elusive though.

Once you load in a specific spline, is there a way to flush it out and load in a different one?

04 April 2002, 10:17 PM
The only thing I can think could cause your error is that I refer to creating the spline in the XY-axis (Front/Rear) panel in modeler.
I forgot to mention that "y+" is the direction of selected polygons "normal+". So, Up is Out, if you get my meaning.

I suspect you had a spline going along the XZ-plane?

Also, yes I agree that the % of scale is a rough estimate. I've come up with another algorithm I will try.

Basically, what it's doing now is measuring the X-axis area of your selected polygons and comparing that to the X-axis change between points in the spline to come up with a comparitive ratio to use as the percentage-of-scaling. I will attempt a different one that may give a more accurate measure.

If anyone knows of a better way to calculate, please - speak up! :)


I cannot reproduce the error msg.
As for clearing a spline. If you use "Save" just save something else. If you do a bunch of actions and hit Save, it saves all of your actions for re-use.

Oh, another gotcha, if I didn't mention it in the "Readme", the "detail" changes are absolute so you might get weird results if you reuse some actions and you've used "detail" changes. "Master" changes are relational to the selected polys, and so work much better.
"Angle" changes are all screwed up in reuse. They skew AFTER moving, which is good, but it gives a strange result. No fix in mind on that one. sorry.

04 April 2002, 10:31 PM
thanks for the info. I am creating my spline profiles in the xy plane(front/back)not XZ or YZ.

So "+Y" refers to each individual poly's local coordinates(based on normal) as opposed to world coordinates.

So the point order of the created spline does have an effect on the resultant geometry created?

How about the orientation (positional and rotation) of the spline item relative to the selected poly faces? Is it best to have the spline positioned in some direction or placement relative to the selected polys in order to achieve optimal results?

04 April 2002, 10:48 PM
You can see a picture here:

Basically, the +Y is the direction of the "average" of selected polygon's normals. So Yes, it is local coordinates. Rotation is also local, but it's weird.
This can cause a problem if you pick 2 polygons facing in opposite directions, as I'm sure you can imagine, they would cancel each other out.

The orientation of the spline should best be from (0,0,nil) to (+,+,nil); Meaning going UP from the "horizon". The polygon orientation does not matter - other than as I already stated.

Ahh! Just got the Division by Zero error!
Great. Now I can figure out what the HELL is going on!

04 April 2002, 12:51 AM
Here's a shot of some wacky geometry created using a single profile followed by some regular shifts on a flat plane of polys.

04 April 2002, 01:04 AM

That's pretty funky! The really cool thing, I think, is if you'd had a hunkerin' you coulda "saved" what you did, then run it again on another set of polys, then "Undo" into the operation, make a change, then "Redo" back to the end!
If anything, that's one thing I like about it.

BTW, I may have encountered a way to be able to rotate the view while working on Smoo! No promises, but...

04 April 2002, 01:14 AM
hey looking at this i just realized that with a lil work you could turn this into a kick ass hair plug in though the polycount migh be a lil crazy !

04 April 2002, 01:35 AM
A little crazy?! I guess for big clumpy hair it could work, but Sas is probably better for "hair".

04 April 2002, 11:20 AM
Your plugin reminds of how a lot of XSI toolset.
The ability to try and see different things.

04 April 2002, 07:01 PM
Here's what i found after some testing:

smoo doesn't work with:

1-point polys
2-point polys
>2-point polys where 2 points are on the very same place
(obvious... because you can't calculate the normal of these polys...)

polygons smaller than 1-2 mm i don't know exactly the threshold size but it just screws up if you work on 5mm or so grid-sizes.

the undo button:

the check to know if you have done something to undo is AFTER the first undo,
so if you create 4 cubes, then start the smoo and do undo, you don't get any error AND he does 3 lw-undos (that means it deletes 3 of the four cubes you just created).

If you do nothing inside smoo and try succesive undos or redos you get errors 311(undo) and 296(redo) {but once again that's obvious because you havent yet created the variable to check the number of undos...} That's not really a problem if you have alert level on EXPERT, but perhaps you risk to screw up your work outside the smoo...

Just a suggestion-question:
can you adress on a lscript to the system stack where lightwave keeps the undos? i think a C plugin should be able to do that, but dunno...perhaps even the, probably not.

the spline:
i think it works quite fine enough if you work on polys facing "up", because you can feel what it's going to do to the polys, but for others polys directions... i cant "visualize" what effect you'll get.(maybe it's just me.)
what would be GREAT is to be able to choose the axys where we drew the spline.
you could put a button saying TOP / FRONT / SIDE to choose if we've drawn the spline on the top or front view in modeler...
(i think this shouldn't be too big said you check the difference of the Xs for each 2 points of the you just check the Zs instead if we chose the SIDE panel)
otherwise, it works perfectly, never got any 0-division even with multiple successive splining...

if we could draw the spline, start the smoo, and then fine tune the spline points and see it all come to life...gosh, that would be heaven, i think a tool like that would be heaven...
somewhat like Magic Bevel, not for doing tentacles but for shaping objects like a potter...

hope i was clear enough...i just woke up, did the laundry and some smoo testing... now LET'S BREAKFAST!!

04 April 2002, 07:56 PM
Thanks for all the input! :)

Your dream tool sounds a lot like Vertibevel.
You should check it out!

04 April 2002, 08:22 PM
i know vertibevel and was even about to buy's a great tool but i dont really like to have to draw your guides on another don't get immediate feedback...
take magic bevel,
you actually DRAW where you want the tentacle to go, and if you dont like, you click on the window borders and it undoes everything, and all this is done INSIDE the modeler window. what i'd like is something as interactive as that but i know that would be a dream....perhaps in lw8...:rolleyes:

04 April 2002, 12:22 AM
another thing i found out with smoo:

if you do some rotations and do SET, it keeps the rotation angles, but it seem to rotate the polys with a wrong pivot. If you then change a bit the angle, the polys jump to the right place...

not too clear...
Take a polygon, you smoo it with an offset and an angle on the z axis. If i click on SET several times it should do a toroid or something like that. Instead he just does a straight tube and rotates the last poly around itself.
If you tweak a bit the angle every time you do the SET, everything goes as it should...

I dunno if what i said has alreasy been said, and i'm sorry if i'm flooding this thread!

04 April 2002, 02:33 AM
I found that error too, when reloading a Smoo action.
I've got a plan of action to fix, but haven't done yet. Thanks for reminding me. I've been struggling to get the interactive rotate to work. I'm starting to have serous doubts about it's viability.

Oh well. If I can't get it working by 7.3 release, I'll probably just go with how it is, with a few small fixes.
Oh yeah, AFTER i've played with 7.3 a little. ;)

04 April 2002, 10:34 AM
i've got a somewhat technical question for anybody with some in-depth knowledge of the modeler architecture.

Modeler has 128 levels of undo. Ok.
How does Lightwave backup the undo data?
does he keep track of where all the points and polys go and so on
does he keep an history of the commands done
OR something else?

i ask this because i wanted to try to make an action recorder for modeler (since i couldn't find any for modeler; btw, thx cman for your tip on layout multi-undos)
and the first way i tought at is this:

you find where on earth (or where on ram more likely) modeler keeps his undos.
you translate them (and that's the reason for my question)
you write a simple lscript with the translated actions.

this hasn't to be a real plugin, it could be an external program, or i dont know what, in any case, modeler HAS TO translate the data inside the undo stack in order to do the undo operation, so why shouldn't some other program or plugin be able to do that?

Most likely what i would like to attempt is crazy... and perhaps i should ask directly to the lw coders...but ...i'm just a poor boy...
and i daren't ask'em such a thing...

the other choice would be to have a resident plugin (as you said cman) that records what's going on...

otherwise we could just learn some lscript basics and write our own macros...

i dont know...
it's 7:34 am and i SHOULD HAVE slept tonight...

04 April 2002, 10:01 PM
I doubt I can wait for 7.3 since Bandslice sounds so cool.

Thanks to all you lscripters out there (especially Cman). Being an entry level 3D modeler i need all the help I can get!!!

04 April 2002, 08:42 PM
probably already exists:

i use spinTris a lot,
i use spinQuad a lot,
i'd love to use spinQuad+Tris a lot, but i never found one!
i often end my loops with triangles, and quite often, as i clean up the mesh, i have to spin a quad + a triangle using shift+z and split or edgetools (i'm a lazy guy, and with edgetools you don't have to select both the polys and the points to split them)
moreover, when i spin the polys, i normally spin them fast more than once to see what's the best solution, but with 4+3 i cant, i have to do the somewhat slow proces of spinning them meself.

is there some lscript to do that? (couldn't find them on flay's)
would it be difficult to create one, if someone can just tell me the basic procedures, i can try doing it myself, i dont know lscript yet, but i learn fast...

04 April 2002, 01:46 AM
If some of you have this lscript, or think you might need it, MultiMerge welds 2 sets of points together for you.
Using my newly learned Smoo techniques ;) I've added interactivity to the MultiMerge script. So now, as you move the slider, you see where the points will be merged!

Multimerge! (

Check it out!

04 April 2002, 07:46 AM
um cman your site seems to be down. I just get to read all the posts and I am dying wondering how the plugins work.

04 April 2002, 05:09 PM
That's weird.
I just clicked the link above here, and it popped right up.
My site is not very optimized. Perhaps it was just slow loading?

04 April 2002, 02:14 AM
yeah your server must have just been acting up for a bit. Or it could have been my connection.

Here is a stupid question that has been asked before I am sure. Is the bandslice demo really just bandslice titled demo? Or is it a limited version of the tool?

04 April 2002, 05:47 AM
it's limited. and it's worth the $15 to get the real thing :)

04 April 2002, 03:34 PM
cman you and your kind rocks!

just had to air it!
plugin developers are loved!

04 April 2002, 03:09 AM

First off....

Love your plugs! and guys I'm the happy owner of a copy of bandslice great plug. great investment!

I keep on reading about Smoo...but can't find it?!

Would you be kind enough to point me in the right direction?



04 April 2002, 05:47 AM
Smoo... Smoo...
Thanks for asking about it. It's been languishing in my HDD for weeks and I just cannot seem to finish it.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
I promise you'll know when it's ready.
At least if you frequent at all.

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