View Full Version : Mudd Alein

10 October 2006, 08:51 PM
Hey guys this is an alein creature that I'm modeling for my advanced modeling class. This will be my first attempt at Z-brush also. Right now I'm about three days into modeling and I'm pretty much done with everything but the hands, teeth and neck. I was wondering if I could get some crits before I move any further. thanks guys

10 October 2006, 09:41 AM
How many tris?

Are you in the Game Art & Design program?

10 October 2006, 04:13 PM
It's about 16,000 tris right now. I am in the game art design program at AI in chicago. We don't have a poly limitation for this project but I plan on making a lower poly version and normal mapping this guy as well.

10 October 2006, 06:55 PM
Ah, I see. I'm just curious because I'm going to be taking Game Art & Design at AI of Ft. Lauderdale.

What's the program like? What can you tell me about it? Types of tools you're working with, classes, internships, projects, etc..?

I appreciate it.

10 October 2006, 09:45 PM

The program itself is good all around but I IMO they should be more specific. For example my school tires to make you into a jack of all trades, 2-d, 3-d modeling, animation, rigging, storytelling, etc. While its cool and useful to learn about the whole pipeline some people may prefer focusing on just character modeling or just animation. Anyways my point is that if you want to be a good modeler or whatever the school only really touchs on the basics and its up to you to put in the extra time and effort on your own.

The tools they teach in my program are maya, photoshop, after effects, unreal, a little Z-brush, and thats about it. Classes are normally pretty small 30 or less kids in a class, and taught in computer labs with a projector. In modeling 1, you make a character out of primatives and an enviroment for the final, polycount is not really important, in modeling 2 you create hands, and a detailed head for the final where efficent modeling is stressed.. In game modeling and animation you build a character under 8,000 tris and texture,rig, paint weights, and animate it. In Advanced modeling which I'm in right now, you do any charcter model you want with no poly count and Z-brush is also an option. You also fully texture, rig, paint weights, and put this character in an enviroment. As far as internships go, if you are good enough you can get one at Midway games. Maybe, high velocity which I think may have gone under.

If you have any more questions let me know man.

small update all c&c welcome

10 October 2006, 07:25 AM
Definately have more questions. PM me your Contact Information if you get a chance, I'd really appreciate it. (AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc...)

I'm still trying to decide between majoring in Media Arts & Animation, or Game Art & Design.

10 October 2006, 08:17 PM
looks good but the teeth angle outward way too much. they need to be more vertical. i think your concept even shows that, are they manifold or stuck in the gums. u should also add a few more.

10 October 2006, 08:24 PM
Yeah I just threw some teeth on there real quick so I could see the character better. they are seperate geometry. I agree about the angle and the number. Right now I'm bulking the back up more, changing some loops in the crotch/hip area, defining the muscles a little better, and working on the neck area. thanks for the comments

10 October 2006, 10:11 PM
Yeah I just threw some teeth on there real quick so I could see the character better. they are seperate geometry. I agree about the angle and the number. Right now I'm bulking the back up more, changing some loops in the crotch/hip area, defining the muscles a little better, and working on the neck area. thanks for the comments

I kind of like that they angle out a bit. It reminds me a bit of a shark (the teeth). Have you thought about maybe giving him more than one row of teeth? Looking very cool so far! The neck looks long (I know it's supposed to be) but I think he needs to be hunched more for it to work. It looks a bit unbalanced now. I'm guessing you'll fix that after it's rigged? I'd also try to make him feel more alien. I think spikes and protrusions or warts (and the like) will realy help out. Again, I'm sure you're already planning some of this stuff. It's just hard to comment aside from "I don't see anything wrong at this point." :)

10 October 2006, 09:03 PM
blacker: I will try out different teeth, I like your shark teeth idea allot. I'm experimenting with teeth and nails now. Thanks for the comments.

So, I bulked the guy up quite a bit and made him larger all around. I made a lower poly version also, but I kinda realized that it's a little pointless. Any comments are appreciated!

10 October 2006, 09:12 PM

10 October 2006, 11:18 PM
good work mate - it's looking very cool. apart from the teeth, my one crit would be that the leg muscles are looking a little bland and formless compared to the upper body.

10 October 2006, 01:04 AM
hi cass83,
as you might now i love creatures. so here comes my advice: don't work with so many polys from the start on. it takes ages to move them around and it will take ages to do the necessary reduction for a realtime model. try to work with a smaller amount of polys right from the start. you have lots and lots of unnecessary polys at the moment. most of them are not needed to describe the surface. it's good that you try to work with quads only but try to reduce your model as soon as possible, otherwise it will be painfull later. have a look at my human character ( thread where i used less quads for more detail.

thumbs are too thin and hands and fingers need detailing. think about giving him five fingers as you are heading for a realistic and not too cartoony anatomy and make the numer the same for hands and feet. i would tend to model his jaw in a more relaxed position. at the moment it is so wide open you might get problems to close it's mouth properly. always try to use a pose in the middle of two extremes.

a good start so far. but always keep in mind: use your polys wisely...
keep it up!


10 October 2006, 07:25 PM
arran1: Thanks for the comments, the legs do suck indeed. I'm reworking this guy today.

Espen: Thank you so much for you valuable crits! I thought I was way to high poly but my advanced modeling teacher said it's fine and doesnt really matter so I decided not to reduce it. Ok here's my situation.
1) I'm a student, and once I graduate I want to find a job as a modeler. I'd like to use this model for my demo reel and print book but am not so sure what game/film companies would like to see poly wise. I already have a few low-poly models so I figured I should show I can do high-poly also. What is a good limit to set for myself since I have no limit for the class? I did start rather low on this model, but I made the mistake? of putting in an edge loop every time I needed to show a little more definition of the form, which in turn led to allot of unessasary geometry.

2) I checked out your thread and I like the model and the unwrap a ton, very low poly for the amount of detail! Have you tried test binding it, how does it deform? Awesome job indeed, I will keep your model in mind while I'm reducing mine.

3)I agree again, the hands need some detailing and he should have five fingers and probably five toes. I will close the mouth some too. Thanks again!

11 November 2006, 01:49 AM
Pretty much done modeling. 13000 tris without teeth, tongue, and fingernails. Those things will be reduced a bit otherwise this is sitting around 22,000. End result should be less than 17000t ris. Texture is next. All crits appreciated.

11 November 2006, 02:08 AM
Did some work in Zbrush for the future normal map. I've worked up muscles and form in subdivision level 3 and that is what the screen grabs are from. After I do the head hands and feet I will bump this up to level 4, and 5 for skin surface detailing and some texture. This is my fisrst time using Z-brush and I'm having fun with it! So, please give me some C&C and let me know what you think. Any pointers, all you Z-brush masters? Thanks for looking!

11 November 2006, 04:54 AM
That's looking very nice indeed. How long have you been working on it? I agree that you've started off with too many polys, and smoothing/detailing models is always easier than reducing polys with less tweaking around. In your model, for example, it's reasonable to stay in the area of 5,000. Your normal maps will eventually pop out the details in your model anyways, so a 50% poly reduction isn't going to be very noticeable. It seems that you're far enough into working on this one to start again, but just a bit of advice for the next time around.

Also, it's nice to see another Chicagoan (in the Art Institute no less!) studying CG art. I am not in the Institute, but I am taking a similar electronic/CG media major. For what my program offers, the Maya classes I took are pretty decent, and one teacher made us pick a topic of interest and study it greatly, for a lecture that we had to present in class. It really helped me know my stuff. One guy covered Z-brush, and it sounded like hardcore stuff. I don't think I even got half of it :P

11 November 2006, 06:12 AM
JustChris:Thanks for the comment. I've been working on the high rez in Z-brush for a few days, about 10-14 hrs maybe. I'm learning it as a go but its really intuitive, way more than Maya was when I was learning it. Anyways, no I never smooth my models, I like adding in all th loops myself. My reason/justification for the 13000 tris is that this is my first tim in Z-brush and I wanted good guidlines, not just basic shapes. My instructor said employers might also enjoy seeing some "old school modeling", adding a far amount of detail in maya only, with good edgflow according to anatomy/animation. Plus I already made a low-poly character for my reel which I will normal map soonish. Here is th link if your interested.

So what school you go to?

SMALL UPDATE: Working in Sub 4 now, I need to work the head, hands, and feet! They have barley been touched. OK, any crits welcome

11 November 2006, 07:26 PM
Finished the anatomy, face and feet. Having problems with the hands in Z-brush. Noob question: How can I work on one hand and have my results mirror to the other if it is masked? Or how can I localize my pivot when both hands are seen? Thanks for looking!

11 November 2006, 10:55 PM
All done in Z-brush, texture is next.

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