View Full Version : Character rotation on mirror pose??? Help!

02 February 2003, 03:18 AM
For some reason, when I manipulate the character's hips, then try and mirror the pose, the whole character assumes the correct pose, except that he is facing the wrong direction...

Here's a simple crappy posed example of what I mean.... (camera is stationary, the model is from Lightwave)...

Pose 1, looking at camera

... And the mirrored pose, looking somewhere off to his left...??!

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated....



02 February 2003, 07:55 PM

In the Pose Controls, try un-checking the 'R' (rotation) in the Match section, then paste the pose.


02 February 2003, 09:49 PM
Thanks for the suggestion, but it doesn't seem to work either...

This is beginning to hold up my project, and that can't happen...

Any other suggestions? Anyone?

02 February 2003, 12:17 AM
We have gotten the same results almost every time... even using the stock Kaydara characters...

All we did this time is create a 'T' pose stance, then rotated the hips 45 degrees, and created the second pose...
I think we've narrowed the problem down to hip rotation on it's heading axis...

Here's a sample file... (

Any ideas?


02 February 2003, 07:15 AM

I just tested that scene out and there does seem to be something odd going on there. I have forwarded it on to our testing department and I'll see what they can find out.

Stay tuned! =)

02 February 2003, 08:04 AM
Thanks a million Curtis... I appreciate the help...

Looking forward to a fix!


02 February 2003, 11:30 PM
i'd like to know the answer to this as well. i've been having similar issues with hip rotation in a pose affecting previously created poses. perhaps i'm not clear on how poses work, but i have been over the buzz VTM on poses a few times.

ps: i'd love to see a pose tutorial from kaydara integrated into their tutorials. the other ones were very good.

02 February 2003, 08:32 PM
Hello AJE,
the behavior of the Pose Controls in Mirror mode may seem odd in this specific case, but it is actually behaving normally.

Here's why:

- When you create a Pose, the pose is stored in memory with it's global position and orientation.
- If you paste a pose without turning on any of the Match options (T or R), the pose will be pasted in the same global position as it was when you created it, which means your character will be moved to that position.
- In order to paste the pose witouth moving your character through space, you need to enable the matching options and specify which body-part you want to match.

for example:
- Turn T and R options ON.
- Select the "selected effector" option from the Match drop-down list.
- Now, if you select the left foot, and paste a pose, that foot will stay exactly where it is, and the pose will be pasted relative to it. The rest of the body will be changed relative to that foot.
- Turning ON the Gravity option, will ensure that the original pose, when pasted, will only be rotated in global Y and only translated in global X and Z.
This way, you will not end up with a pose that gets oriented in a direction you don't want.... mostly good for poses where you interact with the floor (walks, runs, etc.)

- In order to be more flexible, our Mirror algorythm is not based on a Global mirroring plane (XY, XZ or YZ), instead it is based on a plane relative to the Matched effector.
This gives the possibillity of mirroring from any position or orientation in space.

In your situtation, you are using mirror withtout turning the Match options ON....:
- In that situation, instead of maching the pose to a selected effector, the character is brought to the mirror of the original pose globally (global Translation and orientation).
- Also, in this situation, since you are not matching any effector, Mirror is done arround the YX axis of the HIPS of your character.
- So, if the hips of your character are tilted sideways, you end up with a Mirror that doesn't seem to go where you were expecting, but in fact, if you look at the hips of your character, and that you toggle between a pose and its mirror with matching options OFF, you will see that your hips are not moving at all.... mirror is done arround it !!!

So the best in your case, would be to choose what reference effector you want to match and mirror arround when you apply the pose.

It would be possible for us to have additionnal matching options in the future. Maybe global mirror plane options, or mirror based on a specified object.

Let me know if you understand my explanations and if you think it would be best to have more matching options, and which options would be the best.



02 February 2003, 09:45 PM
Wow... I understand... we figured it was something like that.

More options in the future could be an advantage...

Thanks a million for the explaination Manuel!


02 February 2003, 01:21 AM
OK, how about this one...

I'm trying ot use Endomorphs from Lightwave in MB, and while they work quite well, I am having a problem with scenes with multiple characters.

Here's the problem:
With my 4 person scene, all characters have the ability to blink, brow up, brow down, and frown... one of the characters has these plus 3 hair motion morphs.

After doing all the facial animation yesterday, I opened the scene to find that all of the characters had the same names for their morphs, and it happened to be the naming convention I gave to the final character (that I worked on before saving and leaving for the day) morphs.

Basically, all the character morphs have the names of that last characters morph targets, and that last character is the only one with any facial animation in the file today.

We could do the facial animation in LW, but it's hard to get emotion out of the body and face to match if we have to use different programs and animate them independently.

Can you merge actor faces when you append a scene? Or is it better to create them from scratch?

Does any of this make sense to you?

Thanks in advance,

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