View Full Version : Let's try for a show of faith

01 January 2003, 05:15 PM
I sent Steve an e-mail yesterday pointing out that it would be a great show of faith for Hash to extend the 2002 subscription to include v10. Since v 9.x was a big waste of time and caused a lot of unrest in the A:M community, it would be good for Hash to make ammends and show they care, if they care. One e-mail isn't going to do much, but a mass e-mailing from everyone who likes the idea might have an effect. A simple polite request, explaining why you think it would be a good idea might help. This is an easy, cost effective way for Hash to suport us POed users. I don't feel like upgrading to v 10, because I got burned on 9 and learn quickly. Let's get our mass power to work and see if Hash will budge. :buttrock:

Cheers, Graham

01 January 2003, 05:27 PM
Good luck!

I really don't see that happening. Hence I'm switching my software. :annoyed:

It's been a long ride, too bad it's over for me.

John Keates
01 January 2003, 05:39 PM
I only updated to 10 because there were projects that I needed to finish that just wern't working in 9.5. I is fortunate for hash that there are people like me allong with newbies to keep them going. Don't hold out for it. Maybe a cheaper upgrade would be possible but these guys are in it to make money.

01 January 2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Graham Clark
I sent Steve an e-mail yesterday pointing out that it would be a great show of faith for Hash to extend the 2002 subscription to include v10... [edit]

Cheers, Graham

I did this very thing 10 days ago. I have not received a reply as of yet.


01 January 2003, 06:57 PM
I'd be up for trying this, but I'm a bit cynical that it would have any effect. Here's hoping though....


01 January 2003, 07:12 PM
OK, I sent it.

Well see what happens I guess.


01 January 2003, 07:53 PM
All we can do is try. If we do nothing, we get nothing. We are likely to get nothing even if we try, but hopfully we will get some satisfaction for trying.

Cheers, Gaham

01 January 2003, 09:55 PM
After Hash has made it so very clear as to what it thinks of its customer base, why would anyone even entertain such an offer? I've decided that the 'fan club' arrangement that Hash has going is probably great for the hobbiest-types, but if you want to get some serious work done, it seems like a more viable option to leave it up to the pros - some the bigger names in 3D software.

Martin may have some cool degrees to hang on the walls in his office, but they obviously don't include anything to do with business management or customer relations.

01 January 2003, 09:55 PM
I've been using A:M since 2000, and I've bought the new CD each year in order to be able to use the latest updates

I bought the 2002 Disk as soon as it was out, I remember that the List had been clamoring for it for months leading up to it... but I was never able to get V9 to run successfully on my system, like a lot of other frustrated users...

For another year I continued using the 2001 disk and version 8.5. When they started alpha testing version 10, I started playing with it. I had none of the problems that I'd had in V9, so I started feeling hopeful...

When it went to beta, I was still having success with it, and started converting 8.5 characters to V10--which is how impressed with it I was.

When the release version came out on Jan 1, my order was placed the same day. I haven't regretted it at all!--even though the 2002 disk was useless as far as the V9 release versions went, I was able to use that CD to start on V10 at the end of last Summer--so I still got a solid 6 months or so out of it, which wasn't a total loss.

I understand the frustration of new users who came aboard with the 2002 disk, but If they tried out any of the version 10 betas, then they have enough to go on to decide whether to switch to version 10... As cheap as this program is, I think that it is totally unrealistic to think that you will get a free upgrade to the 2003 disk.

There are plenty of other A:M users who were dissappointed with V9 and may have wished that they hadn't spent the $99 upgrade to the 2002 disk--I wish that I had tried the Beta version of V9!, that might have saved me from any disappointment, but I was one of the ones who just couldn't wait for it to be out....

Now that the program is stable again, why not consider supporting it? If you'd rather pay $1000 or more to switch software, then I don't think that the $99 upgrade cost is really what is preventing you from switching up to version 10. If you would rather wait on the sidelines for another year, you can play "catch up" in 2004...

For all of the disgruntled "ex-hashers", the feelings about the company that have been expressed tell me that they would rather not send another penny to Hash, Inc. So I think that Hash will bid them farewell and try to move forward without them.

You have to consider whether you are going to move forward with them--Sooner or later, you will move forward or move on. but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on free upgrades to appease the discontented.

01 January 2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by zandoria
You have to consider whether you are going to move forward with them--Sooner or later, you will move forward or move on. but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on free upgrades to appease the discontented.

See this is where you kinda miss the point. Its not a free upgrade, its finaly getting a working program that we paid for when we bought V9.x and it still is a worthless piece of junk that does not work. So they should either give us a working V9 or let us use V10 anything other then that and they have not held up there part of the bargin in putting out a working app.


01 January 2003, 10:56 PM
I don't really expect anything from Hash. I'm trying to get them to respond in some way. I am using 10b6 and find it much better than 9.5e. I am tempted to upgrade to v 10, and probably will, but I have mixed feelings about dealing with Hash. I like A:M, but the company sucks. I feel I have to at least try to get them to make a supportive gesture, before I continue to support them by upgrading. At the end of the day, I expect everything will be the same, and Hash won't change, but I have to try in something.

Cheers, Graham

01 January 2003, 11:13 PM

We want to hear something, and soon. I am not trying to get something for FREE. I want something for the $300 I already paid. If that means a working 9.5, then I am happy.

I think what they are banking on is the obvious. We will start looking at the other packages and then look over our shoulder at AM and see that it sets their waiting for us to adopt it again, for only $99. Like the sad little puppy that it is.

(Carol-Ann, look away from the light...)

But anyway, as tempting as that is, I still can't get past the feeling of being abandaned. Cheated! Not that they set out to cheat me but that they are hiding right now, hoping will just go away.


02 February 2003, 02:43 AM
I went ahead and resubscribed. The disk arrived at the door in about 22 hours after ordering. That was on a 2day shipping order. So, Hash and FedEx can't be called slow on shipping. :)
When I inserted the CD I was a tad shock to see a setup screen for v9.51c. Not complaining, but I was expecting something with a 10 on it, not a new color scheme. <shrugs>,<CANCEL>. Downloaded 10c and crank it up. Loaded a full choreography set and hit Q. Crashed. Loaded again. Jump out of camera view and rendered just fine. Jumped to another camera.. crash! Repeat a few more times... Deleted all the cameras and created new one and rendered just fine. I suspect the camera render scaling settings or toon settings to be the cause here since I was using the features in v9.51e.

The render engine seems nerfed on version 10. No oversampling or up-rezzing with the CD key. I have no idea what an 8x8 engine is or what it really does as far a sampling levels go,but if you turn the antialiasing off the results can be a bit disturbing.

The toonrender seems to be a bit tempermental. I can easily make it turn the lights off on A:M by turning it off and on a few times between test renders. I can clearly see that the feature would require a dongle to get desired results.

PWS corruption still occurs when importing some 8.5 materials. If you save the project with these embedded, chances are the project won't load as is.

V10 toonrender sorta mimics pencil sketches in this v8.5 test. Disappointed that bump maps not caclulated on toolines.
Low bias settings used and white level corrected.

02 February 2003, 02:56 AM
I'm not missing the point, I understand that you want them to go back and fix your version. but they have been releasing updated versions every week or so as long as I've been using the program(today released 10.0d). You're not meant to only use the version that is on the disk when you get it...

Some companies do "patches", but Hash doesn't do it that way. If they let you have V10 for nothing extra, do you think that the people who paid their $99 should have their money refunded too?

I get it that you're unhappy about the company, but I don't see that there is any way for Hash to make the ex-users come back. And since so many have publicly dis-owned A:M, what incentive is there now?

I've heard a lot of ex-users call for "feature freeze" and the removal of features that they don't think should be there. I hope that Hash, Inc. will not put the wishes of some expatriots ahead of the users who are still paying for their subscription and for those features!

What I said in my post was that eventually you will have to move forward with A:M or move on--meaning to some other software. If this forum is to have any relevance for users of A:M then it will have to overcome it's beginnings as a place to bitch about the creators of the program...

I hope that it evolves into something more than that, but I'm starting to have my doubts...

The beta versions of 10 are time-limited, so if you are using the beta then you should decide if you are moving forward or moving on. For those that move forward, I hope to see you on the other side :beer:

02 February 2003, 04:36 AM
I ordered my v10 upgrade last Friday. Got a confirmation that day and here it is a week later and no v10 CD and I did order 2nd day shipping. I've been to busy to worry about it, but now after hearing all this bad stuff about v10 renderer maybe I should tell them to cancel it.

02 February 2003, 04:58 AM
Some companies do "patches", but Hash doesn't do it that way. If they let you have V10 for nothing extra, do you think that the people who paid their $99 should have their money refunded too?

No the people that paid the $99 could get the next one for free.

As for people leaving AM if you look in some of the other threads most people said that if hash fixed the daamn software that they would give them another chance so its not all lost.

The fact is that we all gave Hash lots and lots of time to fix stuff and have been snubed. I have used AM since versuon 5 and every version I would hope that they would have fixed all the stuff everyone was bitching about. I talk with them at siggy and they told me to my face that they were going to fix stuff still nothing. Now I see a chance for hash to fix things and still keep there users if they would just do the right thing.

02 February 2003, 03:42 PM
Moving forward is moving on in this case.

I'm reading all these comments and I see that the company (or the software) hasn't changed one bit. They aren't going to do it. "Plus ca change, plus ca reste la meme chose."

Do you think they would like to retain a single user if it would cost them 100 bucks? No way man! That's not how corporations think. And Hash Inc. is a prime example of that.

Right now they are in the 'minimize losses' phase - in other words, cut and run. In a few months they will have an all new userbase (with maybe a couple exceptions), and all of this civil disorder will be forgotten, or at least not talked about.

They aren't making money on subscriptions (100 bucks a pop, c'mon). They're making money on the trade shows.

Would I consider returning to AM if a "final update" to v.9 was offered? If and only if it was accompanied by Martin's personal (and very, very public) apology for calling us all 'truly evil mofos' who 'will burn in hell' because we spoke the truth about his product.

In the mean time I'll get a Nobel prize for genetic engineering, wind tunnel testing and flight aerodynamics of pigs.

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