View Full Version : plugins and best friends

03 March 2002, 11:20 AM
hello wavers,
just wanted to share with you my best friends and where i can acess them:

F1 - KAG extender +
Q - Add edges
S - Quadsew
W - PlaneBelt Optimizer
e - speedy quad
p - speedy poly
F9 - poly subdivide
F10 - poly Fan subdivide
T - Prselect

Its an useless topic, i know, but i´d love to hear about your best friends and where u can find them:)

Facial Deluxe
03 March 2002, 01:16 PM
Hello Logan,

Don't know every of your plugs, could you shortly describe them plz ?

03 March 2002, 04:31 PM
^F7 - QuickMirror

F8 - Add Edges
^F8 - Remove Edges

F9 - Kag-Extender
^F9 - Extender

F10 - Vertibevel
^F10 - Kag-EdgeSmoother

F11 - Bandsaw
^F11 - P.B.O.

03 March 2002, 09:14 PM
heyas facial,
sure here it goes:

F1 - KAG extender + = the same as extender but it doesnt add those nasty extra polys
Q - Add edges = let you mannually add edges into geometry
S - Quadsew = will take 2 quads facing each other and merge them
W - PlaneBelt Optimizer= transforms 2 rows of polys into one(the opposite of bandsaw)
e - speedy quad = will make a quad with 3 points selected
p - speedy poly = will make a quad with 4 point selected, but doesnt matter the order u selected them
F9 - poly subdivide = will take n sided polys and divide it into 4 sided polys(and maybe a 3 sided)
F10 - poly Fan subdivide = the same as above, but wont end up with a 3 sided poly
T - Prselect = if you select 2 points, it will select the rest of the row for you.

hope it helps

03 March 2002, 10:49 PM
Hi Loggie,

I am interested in the Prselect but can't find it Flay. Any idea where I can get it? Thanks in advance.:bounce:

03 March 2002, 03:50 AM
hey dz, check your mailbox:)

03 March 2002, 08:38 PM
cool. you have many cool plugins, which actually solved many nasty problems. Are most of them free?

03 March 2002, 08:46 PM
unfortunately most of the plugins were not at
can you tell me where I can find them?

03 March 2002, 10:30 PM
hey raffael,
i got all of them, FOR FREE!!! at flay´s........
select modeler plugins and look one by one. im sure they are all in there.
i would send them to you but i read some of the read me last night and they tell that i cant do it....sorry:)

but you are right. those plugins solve almost all of the problems in the workflow in lw:):)

03 March 2002, 12:35 AM
If found almost all of them, except two (polysew and the opposite of bandsaw). Thank you a lot. I just deleted to old extender...I will never use that thing anymore :-)

Ok here come my favourite shortcuts

b = bandsaw
F4 = single view
e = add edges
CTRL Q= Extender+
d = drag
CTRL T = polyfansubdivide

03 March 2002, 11:29 AM
F9.....Render :wip:

03 March 2002, 12:16 PM

03 March 2002, 01:27 AM
Hey Raffael

What did you replace extender with?

03 March 2002, 01:53 AM
I replaced it with the KAG Extender+
it does exactly the same like Extener, but without those erors. It0s like the perfect extender :-)
That's why I wont use the old one anymore. I tried it several times, much much better now

03 March 2002, 04:15 AM
Hi guys,
I am totally flattered you have my scripts as favorite hotkeys!

I had planned to eventually make a new version to the subdividing of polygons, but you inspired me to make it quick!

Try this attachment, and tell me how you like it.

You are Beta Testing!

(note: It has now been added to the PolySubdivide zip. The new script creates "planks" across the polygon, instead of adding a new point.)

03 March 2002, 04:43 AM
hey cman,

no man im flatterer ure flattered:)
thanks a lot for the plug man!!
gonna test it as soon as whos line is it anyway is finished ok?
listen, know what id love to have??
a plug that bevels and extrude points and edges a la nendo/mirai...
is it doable???
lemme know ok?
thanks a lot man!!!!!!!

03 March 2002, 04:54 AM
Hi Loganarts,
Certainly sounds doable -
but how would it be different from the Extender+?

I've only used LW so I do not know about Mirai.
And so "beveling" a point just makes no sense to me. I'd have to ask you to visualize it for me with some pics or a little anim...

Beveling edges might be useful, hunh?

03 March 2002, 05:23 AM
hey cman,
ill try to explain:
lets pretend u want to make a navel.
but in the exact place u want to make it. theres an intersection of 4 polys, or a point in the right place of the navel.
now you want that point to become a poly, say a 8 sided poly. creating a disc poly.
u can do it by unwelding that point, adjusting the geometry and creating new polys right.
so heres where the plugin comes in. it will do it at one time, so you can bevel that new disc poly inwards to create the navel, then i use the polysubd to make that 8 sided poly subpatchable and voila, the navel is done.
hope i could express it in the right way:)
thanks a lot cman!!!!!!!

03 March 2002, 05:24 PM
Hi Loggie,

Sorry for thanking you so late, just came back from Bangkok. Got the plugin. :applause:

03 March 2002, 05:57 PM
Hi Cman,

I tried the cm_PolyDivide.lsc which is cool and quite different from the other one cm_PolySubdivide.lsc which subdivide from the centre. By the way, I wonder if it is possible to create a plugin that could bevel a group of poly as a whole. Smooth shift does something similar but unable to adjust the extrude and inset valuse precisely. Just a thought...:p

PS: I am a happy Bandslice user.

03 March 2002, 06:56 PM
I just want to make this clear, I do not accuse dzogchen of anything, but I am reminded of something.

I've been told that there are cracked copies of the Bandslice demo floating around that people are using. That pisses me off! :mad:
Aren't all the other ones I give away enough!

Let me just say, Bandslice is the ONLY thing I've written that I charge for - because it took so much work - and if anyone that reads this is using Bandslice and did not pay me, I hope you find some moral fortitude and follow this link and pay me for it.

I'm just like you many of guys, a solo flyer tryin' to make a buck on hard work. And $15 measly dollars would only buy me lunch, as I said! It would take YEARS to ever actually make money on this - compared to the effort.

Would you like it if one of those graphic card companies stole 3-months of work from you, stuck your render on their box, and refused to pay?!
If anyone out there is using Bandslice and has not paid me, please pay me for my work...

03 March 2002, 07:02 PM
can anyone tell me how I can download the plane belt optimizer? Yeah I know it's at, but it refers to a weird page, where you can't see a download option

03 March 2002, 07:06 PM
after reading your post, I think I can understand.
So would the 8-sided poly, just and example I know, be tiny like a point, or just normal.
Hmm, I will try some experiments.
If you can manually do it, that helps too. As you know, an lscript/plugin is essentially just automated modeling/animation steps!

and dzogchen, yes I could do the group-poly bevel thing, but isn't that what Vertibevel is? (I've never used it.)
Still, I would need to figure out how to do it without being too similar to their product. Don't wanna get sued!


03 March 2002, 07:09 PM
Here Rafael3d

It's the 5th one from the top.

03 March 2002, 08:29 PM
Hi Cman,

I can imagine your anger when cracked copies of your hard work are floating around! Just to make things clear in case people misread your post. I am a legal registered user of Bandslice ( otherwise I would not have advertised it ) I think $15 is a reasonable amount to pay for a great plugin like Bandslice. As you can see from my avatar ( from Feb challenge ) The detailing of the face mask is done mostly ( about 60%) by Bandslice , not to mention the rest of the stuff like her shoe and weapon.:thumbsup:

And yes, Vertibevel could do group poly bevel and much more.... but to pay $150 for it! That is too much for me ( my personal opinion). At the present moment to do group beveling, I smooth shift the grouped poly a little, then resize and move the extruded polys. A tad unproductive and imprecise. :( Hoping there is a plugin for a simple function like this.

03 March 2002, 08:55 PM
As for the Vertibevel-like tool, how about this...
I was thinking a user could make a bg spline, and the tool I'd make would bring that into an interface where you could adjust it some, and save it as a preset.
You could load previous presets and apply them based on % or actual distance.

Maybe a preview button?

What ya'll think?

Only problem is I do not do C yet, and LScript does not recognize mouse actions in panels - except to click a button.

03 March 2002, 09:17 PM
I think what you have suggested sounds more advance ( more like vertibevel ) and cool than what I actually requested. You do not do C yet but I know nothing about C and Lscript! :p
I am just hoping to have a simple plugin like say I group a set of polys, click to bring up a simple panel something like Quickcut, set the extrude and inset value ( doesn't have to be interactive in the panel and execute it! I dun know how easy or difficult it is to write something like this. :confused:

03 March 2002, 09:27 PM
thanks cman!

03 March 2002, 12:42 AM
The feature set you described with the user defined spline presets is what Vertibevel provides.

I use Macroform occasionally with LW5.6, it has quite a few handy modeling tools, too bad it isn't LW6 compatible.

03 March 2002, 01:10 AM
Chewey, I tried doing a search for Macroform, but their website seems to be down.

Do you have any other links to info?

I'm going to do the beveling thing I think...
call it: Bevel-X ;)

03 March 2002, 01:49 AM
I don't believe Macroform is available anymore as it's authors are now involved with PMG. I tried a search and it looks like there's close to nothing informative about Macroform on the web. (The manual for it has to be one of the best ever made for a plugin and has to be over a few hundred pages and made into a convenient, small sized 3 ring binder for easy handling.)

Bevel X sounds good. How about "Bevel Buddy" ?

How about an option to assign a new surface or selection group to the newly created bevel geometry at the time of creation?

03 March 2002, 02:37 AM
I do not know what you guys think about this.
I think it does what Dzochen was talking about for basic kinda smoothshifting.

Let me know if it works for you guys, what changes you think would be good before I notify the rest of the LW universe!

Plus, I'm thinking it needs a better name.


BTW, if you say OK on the requester, there are 3 undos!

This one has Set and Undo buttons!

03 March 2002, 03:24 AM
I'm not sure if this question has already been raised. But I was watching a demo of a model being built in which a set of faces (let's say 6 faces) were flattened/collapsed to a single face -- it was being done in Mirai by Ambient whisper.

This single one was then beveled to create the new geometry. And when all the geometry was completed, the single face was subdivided properly.

Now I know that I could do this manually, but I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to automate this.

Here's what I mean:

a group of faces are selected:

the group is flattened into a single face:

this face is beveled:

the single face is subdivided into quads

and can be Subpatched properly:


03 March 2002, 03:45 AM
Hey Policarpo!
Did you try those PolySubdivide's I made?

I just tried your question and used PolyDivide on the big polygon and it worked okay.
Also, my previous post has a "smooth-shift" style lscript that might help too that's Beta.
Looking for input on how to any ideas.

03 March 2002, 03:58 AM
hey CMAN....

yeah i tried the Polysubdivide and it worked like a gem on this example.

What i'm most in need of is the "collapse" many faces into "one" face feature. so far i've been doing it all manually (selected the group of faces I want to bevel, deleting them, then selecting their remaining verts and building a single polygon).

what this allows me to do is build new geometry with the BEVEL tool which is much more interactive than the Smooth Shift tool. I then Polysubdivide this many pointed face, so it becomes Quad or Tri based.

I've used Smooth Shift in the past in combination with the Stretch Tool. But after I saw this Mirai method of collapsing many faces in to one, and beveling the new geometry, it really made sense. It's very interactive as well since you are using the Bevel Tool.

I hope this makes sense.

I tried out Smoo...but it really wasn't for me. I liked the precision of it...but since it wasn't interactive (other than the Cool preview feature) I can't see using it. That's not to say it still isn't totally bad ass! :D


Does my dilema make sense? I can illustrate it with more detail if you like.


- p o l i c a r p o
link to the thred by Martin K:

03 March 2002, 04:11 AM
I hope I'm reading this wrong because if not, you've been tormenting yourself! :eek:

Did you know about Shift-Z?
Select all the faces you want, then push Shift-Z and it combines into one face?

Maybe that solved your problem?....

03 March 2002, 04:18 AM
HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

you just saved my LIFE!!!!!!

well...several hours of my life.

thanks....i guess i didn't look that deep in the manual to figure that out...i just always used Shift Smooth for such deeds.


You definitely are the MAN cman!


03 March 2002, 04:23 AM
That's some funny crap man!
...whoo boy. I needed that laugh...

Glad I could help. I think we all miss a few tidbits here and there as we learn LW. :D

I just went to your page, that frog is awesome!
If anybody's the man, it's you!

Keep up the great work.
:) word of warning. When you use the Shift-Z ("merge polygons"), it will leave all the "interior" points alive. So be sure to go back and remove those later.
I think there's a plugin on Flay that deletes extraneous points...

03 March 2002, 07:18 AM
Thanks for the big eye opening tip Cman...and the deleting pointer....

Lightwave impresses me almost every day when I learn how capable it is.

Have you heard the price has dropped to $1595.00. Now i may be able to afford my own copy for personal use.


BTW: the polysubdivide script is great. expect a donation $oon!


03 March 2002, 07:43 AM
Hey cman!!
please dont forget me eh??

heres what i was talking about the last reply:

1 - a flat mesh with 4 polys. i selected the middle point.

2 - unwelded the points and rearrenged the geometry.

3 - now, using speedy quads plugin, i created 4 new quads and a 8 sided poly in the middle hitting p.

4 - ok, then i beveled the 8-sided poly 2 times and used your polysubd plugin for the 8-sided poly.

MAN!!! i would love to automate it all in only one tool!!!!!
mirai has it so is nendo.
any suggestions??
i know we are abusing of ur time man...
but, help me obi-wan kenobi, ure my only hope:)
thanks a lot

03 March 2002, 12:36 PM
Hi Cman,

You really work fast! :thumbsup: Woke up today and the beta version is ready for sampling! Well not quite what I am talking about ( I am terrible at explaining things sometimes :( ) but I think it works better than the original smooth shift. I have asked my friend to send me a grabscreen pic of his program.

C4D version:
Precise inset when bevelled as a whole.

Lightwave version:

Loggie , your request sounds really cool too. :eek:

03 March 2002, 06:33 PM

That was just what i was looking for

select more then one poly's then extrude them at once and bevel them seperatly so if you extrude 4 faces and you bevel them youve fot 4 bevled faces and not one bevled face seperated in 4 faces......

isn't that what you ment.... :bounce:


03 March 2002, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by loganarts
Hey cman!!
please dont forget me eh??

heres what i was talking about the last reply:

Lost your images, Loganart!


The only difference I can see is in the circled areas where the "internal" beveled polygons edges are lined up in C4D, not in LW.
Is this what you are referring to as "imprecise"?

If so, I have no immediate ideas on that one. That would require a kind of graduated inset.
How does C4D operate on a corner to determine which polys are inset all edges, which just one edge?
See if you can grab a shot of that bevel on a corner.
This will take more effort. Also, remember it will not be a "tool", just an interface.

Ahh... I see now Logan.
Let me think on that one too! ;)

03 March 2002, 07:52 PM
to get the effect dzogchen is looking for is doable in just takes a little work.

here are the steps as illustrated in his sequence.

1. Select the 4 faces you want to extrude.
2. SHIFT-Z to merge the 4 polygons to create 1 polygon
3. Use the Bevel tool to extrude your new face
4. With the face still selected switch to Vertex mode
5. Select the Verts which make up the vertical division
6. Use the Split Polygon tool CTRL-L to recreate the previous geometry

that's how i'd do it...a few extra steps but doable...

and as far as best as i can judge, what you are looking for is something they call CHAMFER in Max. here's a link to a sample file i made to illustrate the point (DivX 5 required):

The CHAMFER tool in max allows one to grow new geometry from either edges or points. it's pretty cool. chamfering an edge would allow you to add a nice bevel to a very hard edge for example.

I have no idea how to do this in Lightwave...if someones knows how to do this...please please please advise.



03 March 2002, 08:05 PM
dzogchen, here is a visual sample of what i mean and how i'd do only takes a few seconds in reality.

hope this helps.


03 March 2002, 08:43 PM
I've figured out how to do it. At least a Plan-A anyway. Probably have it done this weekend! :)

I think I will keep the previous version too.
Any ideas on how to improve that interface?

looking at Policarpo's avi, I think that's good, but it leaves 5-point polys everywhere.

Your way would likely be smoother for LW.
Let's see what happens. :)

03 March 2002, 08:58 PM
do you ever sleep?


here's how i'd improve the interface.

if it was interactive without having to hit the PREVIEW button would be super cool...but i don't know if that is doable in LScript.

keep it up!


03 March 2002, 09:29 PM
Hey P,
Technically it is not doable in LScript because panels are not non-modal. However, a very good LScript writer, Umezawa Masayuki, presented me with a technique for faking it. Didn't really work for me at the time, but I think I can adapt to this!

We'll see.
Thanks for the feedback.

03 March 2002, 10:15 PM
I gave the "smoo" lsc a run through yesterday and I think it's pretty cool. Maybe you should leave the "set/apply" button in the command window if you use Policarpo's layout suggestion. I like to perform multiple shifts/bevels and the thought of having to continually prompt the command window back up doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

My take on the tool is that it would be even more useful as if you included a more comprehensive set of parameters to control the bevel ops. For example, I could use individual controls for the following:

x scale
y scale
z scale
(Also retain the existing scale control for overall scaling once these sub scale proportions are set)

H rotate ( or X rotate)
P rotate ( or Y rotate)
B rotate ( or Z rotate)

I'm not fully understanding what the benefit of having the feature for converting the multiple polys to a single poly prior to the bevel operations. If one takes look the recent screen shots Policarpo posted that illustrates the three vertical edges lined up after the simple bevel op for example.(not sure why the effect is desireable) It will work for a small amount of bevel as shown but if you wanted to perform a single bevel that had a large amount of scaling down then wouldn't it be problematic to maintain those vertical edges as shown?

I must be missing something obvious here.

03 March 2002, 10:48 PM

right now i like the benefit of doing Merge Polygons because it allows me to use the bevel tool to add new geometry. I do run into problems now and then depending on how many verts i'm dealing with, but the stretch tool rectifies this problem.

I know that I can use smooth shift, but doing it this way just seems to make sense to me. I may change my mind at a later date, but for right now, i really like the workflow it offers me.



03 March 2002, 10:51 PM
Your ideas are sound, very detailed.
Maybe this will develop into a widely useful tool.

03 March 2002, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by policarpo

right now i like the benefit of doing Merge Polygons because it allows me to use the bevel tool to add new geometry. I do run into problems now and then depending on how many verts i'm dealing with, but the stretch tool rectifies this problem.

I know that I can use smooth shift, but doing it this way just seems to make sense to me. I may change my mind at a later date, but for right now, i really like the workflow it offers me.



Hey, you stole my birthday!!

I'm still not understanding exactly what you mean, (I must be wearin my stoopid hat today.) Maybe you could show an example that shows the type of geometry modeling you're referring to where keeping the multiple polys presents a problem when beveling and adding new geometry. Either way maybe that feature could be made a toggleable feature in the interface panel.

For me the "smoo" bevel gets around the stock "smooth shift" nonsense that causes non planar polys to split apart unless you're constantly adjusting the angle parameter in the numeric callout. I prefer the way the old pre LW6 smooth shift worked. "Vertibevel" is a great replacement for Layout's smooth shift, but it is a bit pricey for many users.

I came across another feature for the "smoo" lsc that would be a nice addition. I made a flat rectangular 4x4 segment poly. I selected the four corner polys and launched "smoo", I wanted to bevel them out to create legs (sort of like putting legs on a table top) and after setting a few bevels I got the four legs created. However since I used a scale of less than 100% on those shift ops, the legs all ended up curling towards the world space origin which the original rectangular poly object was centered on. For an operation like this where you bevel non adjacent polys, maybe you could add a feature to allow for the beveling operation to take place either in world space or in the poly's local space.

Having user configurable bevel profiles included would be a very nice feature to include. I doubt that vertibevel can claim ownership to that type of feature.

As for the interface panel, I'd prefer more options and its size is of little concern to me as long as I can still view the previews of the operations.

03 March 2002, 05:50 AM

what i was talking about is totally independant of what CMAN is doing.

sorry to have confused the issue.



btw: i didn't steal nuthin'!


03 March 2002, 01:49 AM
(first post here!!)
i had vowed i'll subscribe to this forum when i was able to show something worth seeing, but couldn't resist...just too guys are too great and i'm eager to learn...


i was wondering if there could be a way to do this
in one pass.
(i know, i could use smooth shift, but you dont get a real smooth result...

it's kind of like what Martin-K did in mirai on his timelapse for the tiger-dragon...

x cman:
great job with your subdiv...
tried out the smoo... great job gor such a short notice!
only thing, i'd prefer a more bevel-oriented setting, like Shift-Inset, coz i couldn't really use the xyz thing, it works fine on polys all facing the same side, otherwise you'll have weird stuff goin on...

(besides that...i'd love to learn lscripting...maybe...)

03 March 2002, 03:30 AM
at first glance i'd say use Smooth Shift in combination with the Stretch and Move Tools.

When you are creating the new geometry on the perimeter of the object, just Select Smooth Shift and use your Right Mouse button to create the geometry, then use your Stretch tool ('h') to scale it to the size and bend orientation you desire.

You can also use the Move tool to make finer adjustments.

I'd use the combination of the these tools to do the inside of it as well.

I never use the move/extrude feature of Smooth Shift. It's always, SmoothShift (right mouse button) then Stretch it to the size/orientation i need, and Move to refine the position.

Hope this suggestion helps.



-i have to run to the store...but i'll post a sample when i get back.


03 March 2002, 04:29 AM
No file.
Just wanted to let you know off the top!

Some info.
This is coming along pretty cool.
It's now fully interactive. You spin a dial and the geometry moves! Very cool!
However, I was started to question usefulness, until I read Dies-irae's post. I think maybe using "Smoo" (Can't believe I'm going to promote something with that name...) with individual controls for scale, maybe it could be useful!
Anyway, that's where I am at this stage.
Working in scale controls for each direction, and rotates!

Maybe a few more hours, or by tomorrow.

This is getting damn close to a "vertibevel" type tool. Though I've never used Vertibevel, I'm just guessing.
I now see how I could save the users actions to reuse later. Maybe create a drop-down list of each saved action.

What do you guys think? Should I add a save function and make this a "for sale" plugin for a few bucks, or stop with what I have so far and give it away? Of course, no one that's listed thus far would be charged anyhow. I realize this is an open forum, so it's kinda weird.
I'm inclined to stop with the "rotate's" and just give away.
I know. I'll do both! :D

03 March 2002, 06:02 AM
I like the idea of having the save feature incorporated. My guess is that if you create a useful tool for modeling that fills a void that isn't covered yet or offers features at a competitive price then you should be able to find paying customers.

If it were me doing all the hard work, I'd be looking for a way to get compensated for my time and effort. Making lscripts and plugins hasn't made anyone a lot of money though.

03 March 2002, 07:40 AM
Hey Chewey...
You know, you got that right about making money.
It's not about getting rich, just man-hours. Anyway, not trying to beat a dead horse.

so...I think what I'll do is post it for nuthin', but if people want to be able to save their actions they can "register" it and I'll send them the one that saves!
I'm probably gonna leave both open source so if someone would rather take the time to program the save ability themselves, they can.

I figure it'll take me about 3 more hours to do the save feature - so - I'm only gonna charge maybe $30(US). Or maybe won't do it...maybe just better to incorporate profile-splines...hmmm

Anyway, you are about to download the most recent beta of Smoo!

It's got the rotations!!!
And it's "interactive"!
One word of warning, I think you need at least lscript v2.4 to run.

Let me know how it works. I think there's an "undo" issue or something. Can't quite get it to repeat.

*attachment removed*

03 March 2002, 08:30 AM
Nice Lscript, but I don't see what the benefit would be to using this. You can get the same result with Smooth Shift, Stretch, Move, and Rotate (which is much faster). You're doing the same thing with your Lscript, except you are moving minisliders to get the result.

Mike RB
03 March 2002, 08:54 AM
cman: great work. I have a couple ideas that would make this plug killer...

a segements box, so you have have the new polys already divided x number of times. and a check box for 'apply on each' so it would give you a sloped effect, ill make an image if you need.

One more thing, there should be a choice to switch it from world XYZ to polygon normal XYZ (being the 1st poly you selected) to average normal XYZ to vertex normals (this will act like smoothshift)


Mike RB
03 March 2002, 09:05 AM
this illustrates the 'apply to each' segment idea.

Having this based off of normals (poly or vertex) would be incredible


03 March 2002, 09:21 AM
I Just spent about 30 minutes creating "smoo'd" geometry and so far it's working pretty well.
I'll post some observations after I spend some more time with it tomorrow. After 12 hours pushin pixels on this machine here I'm anxious to move away from this cathode tube. Good job cman.

03 March 2002, 03:46 PM
i'm more than happy if i made you continue the coding :)

x policarpo
i know, i normally use smooth shift (i used it to make the example) and i NEVER dare to do more than the shift+d plus 1 click...i normally get aweful results otherwise. My problem is mainly with bended or twisted geometry, if you have a twisted strip, you'll never be able to do that without detwisting it. Only a normal based bevel would achieve that, hence the ovations for cman :D

x Cman
great update!
I love the separated size controllers, they just get you the fine tuning for a perfect SMOO (besides, i love the name, you should keep it :D)
the rotation si just PERFECT. i love using only one numeric tab to do the things...
One or two things to add on the to do list (and then i'll be more than eager to give a few bucks for such a marvelous toy!)

1: a tiny KEEP checkbox so that when you push SET it keeps the settings (don't think it's all that difficult to code, but it would greatly improve the workflow for multiple smoo'ings )

2: a poly-NORMAL BASED bevel!! Right now i fear CIM is right, smooth-shift plus move and rotate does the same things and sometimes faster, but you give us that thing in normal...we'll be all in your debt!

3: if you select 2 opposing polys, it just cant decide where to go and the offset dont work. Since i often to that kind of stuff on more than one polygon group, i'd love to be able to do that on se veral sides of a cube...

ok, thats it for the todo list....

now, for the undos...
if i'm not mistaken it goes like that:
you pay a fee of 2 undos when you launch it plus 1 undo per SET or OK pressed. Besides that, i havent had undo problems so far...(beta testing!!;))

as for the saving option...dunno, i personally don't think i'd use it, i rarely do the very same bevels on several objects...
but dont know, perhaps someone would..

at last,
Mike RB's idea about segmets is great, (i think the KEEP checkbox could help in this, it's kind of "do the same thing X times with keep activated...dividing the offset by X")

(i'm looking at your script code, i'm learning a lot more than with the docs...oops maybe thats coz i never finish reading the docs...)

i think you're almost right for now, but it's the potential that's great if our cman can fix just a couple of'll be great!!

03 March 2002, 08:55 PM
dies irae: i figured you knew what i was talking about. :)

cman: i've used 'smoo' about 15 minutes so far and all i can say is that i might recant my earlier statement of not using smoo. :D it feels right in it's application, and i really like the 'SET' feature you've added.

i'll keep pushing it and trying to think of other nice the nice one Mike RB made...i can see how that feature of adding the new segments could be very nice.

anyway...gonna grab some breakfast.


03 March 2002, 10:07 PM
Here's a tip that might help if you are having problems when using smooth shift.

Try adjusting your shifts by using the "Max Smoothing" angle parameter by prompting the numeric panel while performing the shifts. This can help prevent your grouped polys from seperating into single seperated polys.

For the newest smoo, I'd also like the parameters to stay retained instead of having them reset to zero values. Or perhaps including a single button marked "previous" could be added to allow for addition executions of the values used for the most recent shift operation. MikeRB's suggestion for the multiple extrudes could then be executed by simply clicking the "previous" button to create the number of desired extrudes.

I'm still an advocate for the user defined profile presets idea. Many users of Vertibevel appreciate the benefits of having a collection of profiles ready for use. For example, using Vertibevel and a custom preset, I can select a finger bevel profile and turn a single quad poly into a finger(minus fingernail geometry and the obvious extra tweaking)in a few clicks.

03 March 2002, 11:42 PM
wow another new beta version of smoo out. Too bad I am not home to try it :( Freezing my butt here in Zurich ( between -3 and 7 degrees). Can't wait to get home. Glad to see so many valuable input to make this plugin a killer! :applause: :bounce:

PS. Thanks Policarpo for your illustration. It is still a chore. If only bevel has a checkbox that allows you to bevel the grouped polys as a whole. Chewey's suggestion of having individual x,y,z scale might just work as well for even inset all round the grouped polys.

03 March 2002, 12:40 AM
This is great feedback!

It's funny about the "reuse/reset" because I actually had to jump a few hoops to STOP it from reusing the previous settings. So a "Redo" button should be cake - and allow some tweaking... (I should start numbering these updates...)

Saving Actions:
I also like the Actions option (obviously), but only problem is it's not very visual. But I guess users can set their own naming convention so they know what does what? Also, since can manipulate in minor detail, each direction of scale for example, a simple "profile" would be inaccurate.

Opposite Side Manipulations:
Not sure what to do about this one. This is supposedly to be used for groups of polygons, all at once. Translating in this situation, you are moving the polys away from each other equally, so no movement...Hmmm, definitely a challenge to make it operate on multiple "groups" individually.

Not too sure what you mean about poly-normal based bevel.

Cim, you are right in your observations. If you look at the coding, what you describe is EXACTLY what this does: smoothshift with zero changes, then move &/or rotate. In fact, I really wonder if it's worth developing further without saving values. Using a profile would be more visual, and perhaps more useful.
I will aim that direction. :)

Mike RB
03 March 2002, 12:59 AM
Cman: what she means is have a toggle for 'polyspace' so that we can offset based on the normal of the polys (normal equals y axis).

That also takes care off opposite side manipulations. Because they can both be using thier normals as their offset axis

03 March 2002, 05:23 AM
the possibility to toggle world-local coord would be great!!
i cant think of any way to do that (i'd use once again smoothshift inside the script, but this time adjusting the max angle, as chewey suggested, and using something more than 0 for the shift..)

the opposites problem:
if you got back to the PREVIEW time of the script, there wouldn't be a problem, because you could just apply the thing to every separate group of polys...but with the actual interactive interface...
dunno, perhaps with an array of groups of polys and applying everything to every element of the array?
the only difficult thing would be assigning each poly to his corresponding group...

that would be:
0- hide all unselected polys
1- deselect all
2- select the first poly
3- select his connecteds,
4- put the selected polys to the POLYS[1]
5- hide the selected polys
----only the others groups of polys remain----
6- select next point in line
7- select his connecteds,
8- put the polys under POLYS[2]
9- hide them
and so on until you've got no more polys...
then save the number of "groups" you have and just

for (i=0; i<nOfGroups;i++)
do all the things you did before: smootshift, scale, move and the likes

ok, VERY messy and probably useless, you sure already knew that...i'm tired...sorry...

03 March 2002, 12:35 AM
Dies-irae, and all, I must say this is turning into quite a bit of effort. I think it's probably easier to just use the tools! LOL. Not a waste of time though as I never could get the interactive thing to work before.
Anyway, I still intend to focus on the spline as a control.
Using the techniques in Smoo, it should be fairly simple.
I have a version now that can undo and redo, so I will travel down that route.
The only sad thing I foretell is a certain lack of immediate changes. But hopefully a person will be able to load a spline, preview the result, then "reverse into" the operation and make a change "move forward" to the end and resave as a new Smoo-Action. so for example, perhaps, as was suggested, a default finger shape could be built and saved and adjusted to smoothshift the polys!
World/Local coordinate options are not so bad. Right now Smoo averages the normals of all selected polygons to get it's "forward" - hence multiple groups being somewhat stagnant.
(whew, lotta typing...)
Anyway, just wanted to let those who are interested know of my progress. :)

03 March 2002, 12:45 AM
Kick ass CMan...sounds like you have a definite plan.

may the Smoo be with you.


03 March 2002, 01:23 AM
Thanks for the update on the "Noo Smoo".
Those ideas/approaches sound good to me.
(for a while there I'd thought you'd gone on vaca)


Look forward to what you can come up with.

03 March 2002, 08:39 PM
it's good to know you're still working on it...

i'm starting to use it more and more frequently, i'd love to see more updates!

but take your time pal!

03 March 2002, 07:14 AM
CMAN, I just want to say that your SMOO plugin KICK ASS!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: It is more than what I ask for and now it is one of my indispensible tool. It is interactive too!!! I can have precise group poly bevel now. The strange but cute object is done in less than a minute using all the settings in just ONE step. Cool!!

03 March 2002, 11:23 AM
Glad to hear it!
As I said, I'm working on making it remember. Turns out the "reload" is a bit trickier than I thought it'd be.
I think there's a looping issue I must solve.
Anyway...soon soon.

I still agree with CIM that using individual tools could get you there too, possibly even faster. I still only forsee the repeatability making this truly useful. :)

I am having a conceptual problem with your idea.
What if a person were to select a row of points?
It could get very messy. :(

Mike RB
03 March 2002, 11:33 AM
cman check your private messages.

03 March 2002, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Cman
Glad to hear it!
As I said, I'm working on making it remember. Turns out the "reload" is a bit trickier than I thought it'd be.
I think there's a looping issue I must solve.
Anyway...soon soon.

I still agree with CIM that using individual tools could get you there too, possibly even faster. I still only forsee the repeatability making this truly useful. :)

Hmm.... I am looking forward to a new and more advanced version;) Great work! Keep it up!

I disagree that using individual tools could get you there faster... How productive can you be when you have to keep changing tools, smooth shift, stretch, move, rotate when one SMOO plugin does it all :love:

03 March 2002, 01:26 PM
I am only having problems with too many undos now.
If you are willing to try it out and get back to me this weekend, please let me know.
I will try and correct the undo issue, then send you this v0.9 - and we'll see what we've got!

Thanks all.

03 March 2002, 06:24 PM
where can I get the "smoo" plugin to try it?

03 March 2002, 12:51 PM
For those of Youse that are innerested, there is an update below.
Be aware this is still in progress.

At present, you need LScript v2.4 to use.

I have not had any crashes on this latest build, but there are some issues with Undos still.
If you wish, experiment and let me know what you discover. :)

Thanks for the feedback all! I think we're nearly there.


*Smoo Removed*

Almost forgot,
If you create a spline on XY-coordinates (Front/Rear) and select it last, Smoo will automagically use that spline as a profile.
Also, be sure to crank your Undos WAAAAY up, like around 100.
Every step you make requires 6 (SIX) undos!
With intricate bevels, you can quite quickly find you cannot get back! So- you've been warned. :)

FORGOT! - Y+ is polygon's Normal+. So "Up" is "Out", :)

03 March 2002, 08:37 PM
You Rock once again CMAN!

i've been using Smoo quite a i'm definitely looking forward to this update.

I'll submit my feedback as soon as i get a chance!


keep up the good work!


Brett H.
04 April 2002, 06:00 AM
Help me out here please, guys.
I am a relative newbie, but I've worked with Lightwave quite a bit. Here's my question:

How did you guys map KAG Extender + to an F-key?
I really can't figure it out, because the only way I can access it now is through Construct/LScript/LScript RT (which is a royal pain).

I love the tool, just show me how to use it (please).


04 April 2002, 06:31 AM
Hit "alt F9" in modeler to bring up the Configure Keys menu. Find Kag Extender in the "additional" category on the left and then assign it to your favorite unused key that you can check out in the right column. You might want to save your configuration once you set the key assignment.

Did you also know that you can assign Kag Extender as a regular menu item just like a regular plugin?
Use "alt F10" to bring up the Configure Menus panel.

04 April 2002, 12:37 PM
/me adds smoo 0.9
/me makes a random-like spline
/me selects squares of a checkerboard in haphazard order
/me's eyes pop out at wonderful InstaShape he just created in mere seconds.

the addition of the spline profile is a pure genius. my GOD that is interesting to play with. i haven't had any problems thus far, btw. i especially like having those undo/redo buttons in the interface. i have only one question: what is that number that pops up in that "Information" window just before the interface?

04 April 2002, 07:32 PM
Okay, at this point I see 16 downloads.
By the end of the day today I will yank it down - and wait for some feedback.
By the end of this week, perhaps we'll have LW 7.3, and the release of Smoo!

Thanks all. :)

04 April 2002, 08:50 PM
Hi Cman
I downloaded smoo and it works great. No crashes so far. I'm not yet familiar with all the possibilites of it, but will try it out and write you if I see errors.

04 April 2002, 10:10 PM
okay...i'm going to be an idiot...but how do you get your face to follow the path of the spline using Smoo?

i created a subdivided box...drew the spline...selected a face of the box, then selected the spline and activate Smoo...but i get nothing.

someone tell me where i'm going wrong please..




04 April 2002, 10:18 PM
1st question: Do you have the most recent version.

2nd question: Did you create the spline in the "facing" (Front/Back) view?

3rd question: Uhhh... that's all I can think of?

Ah, 3rd question...Make sure your polys are contiguous, and that the normals do not face in opposite directions.
This currently takes the average of normals of all selected polys.

04 April 2002, 10:25 PM
answers to the questions.

1. yes.

2. i created the spline on the same layer as the box in the Back/Front viewport...i end up with this weird "screwed up" new set of geometry....




04 April 2002, 10:32 PM
sorry about the info window. That was some info for me while working on the script. It will of course be gone!

you know...I'll have to see a screen shot.
Because of the way I calculate the scale, if any one point is further "Left" of the first point, that is >= the x-diameter of your selected polygons, then the scale will be negative, and invert your polys.

This should be as expected - once I more fully explain how it works. :rolleyes:

Here's a shot of what I got when using a spline:

AHA! Just got the Division by Zero error. I will investigate - as I can't imagine why this would happen. It seems to occur when polys are facing
in POS or NEG X-axis. We'll see...

04 April 2002, 10:50 PM
cool Cman...that's all i needed. I was treating it more like a Path that the bevel would follow.

but you example showed me the was total USER ERROR on my part. :)

thanks again!


04 April 2002, 11:23 PM
Info window is now fixed.
Also, fixed div/zero error.

04 April 2002, 12:39 AM
i played with it a little so far. i don't have enouth experience with modelling to know many situations that this would be ideal for testing it. however, i did run into one crash, though i'm not entirely sure what it was i had just done. i think i had played with the two master settings and the undo, then tried to select the 0 value in the input under master offset (X offset, i think), and that's when it crashed.

i'll fiddle around with it more extensively once i get back from Ice Age.

04 April 2002, 12:59 AM
Ahh, the intermittent crash. I do believe it does have to do with setting a zero value, but I tried to fix it before. Hopefully that's not it.

In the meantime, enjoy IceAge!

04 April 2002, 03:45 AM
I cant find KAG extender + anywhere on flay!!

04 April 2002, 04:04 AM
here it is:

look all the way at the bottom for EXTENDER.

Brett H.
04 April 2002, 06:05 AM
No problems with any crashes, and this thing is indispensible! Basically performs 3 operations at once.....just an amazing workflow enhancement. Thanks, CMan!

I was unaware that an LScript could be loaded like a regular plugin, thus my stoopid question about mapping it to an F-key...

If you don't have Smoo & MagicBevel yet, get 'em NOW!


04 April 2002, 07:22 AM
besides having more controls in Smoo than in Smooth Shift, I noticed a nifty difference in the way they bevel on a corner.
I made a box and took some polys on a shared corner, then used Smooth Shift with only an offset of 100mm (I also like that Smoo allows scaling over 100%) for this example.
here I took the same polys and used Smoo with only a master offset of 10 (cm). And because of the averaging, they're moved 5cm in one direction, and 5cm in the other, since the number/area of the polys is equal.

no bugs or crashes so far, and the only thing i'm wishing for is decimals. i don't care if the default unit is cm, but i can't do mm without putting it as a decimal. that's all i wish for. decimals. :)

and Ice Age was ok. i noticed that a lot of the quirks that kinda bugged me in Shrek bugged me about this one, too. and I really didn't like the way the humans looked. or the baby doing that vulcan sign. sheesh. a lot of it was cliché.

04 April 2002, 07:59 AM
is there a dissolve command in lw?

04 April 2002, 08:19 AM
i sure don't know, but i did a search through the command list and didn't find the string 'dissolve'

my question (to whoever): where do i get MagicBevel?

04 April 2002, 09:08 AM
Magicbevel is on Do a plugins search.

As for Smoo, all actions are based upon the selected polygons, so Scale is based upon area, and Translation is based upon the Normal.
Therefore the smaller-scale the size of the polygon, the smaller the move. (theoretically)

It is basically divisible, so perhaps a numeric for scale of translate and scale?

1x, 2x?

04 April 2002, 10:04 AM
i don't think that's necessary, i was just noting that it does that differently. its easily compensated, as is using only cm units, but what is really inescapable is the necessity of decimals.

this is probably a plugin you should charge for when its complete, like Bandslice :)

04 April 2002, 10:28 AM
I hear ya about the decimals.

04 April 2002, 10:33 AM
/me shuts up and sleeps

04 April 2002, 08:15 AM
Ive been trying to find speed quad and speed poly on Flay but cant find then in a search. Anyone have the links handy?

04 April 2002, 08:45 AM
That one was tricky for me to find at flay... I don't remember how exactly I found it, but HERE ( is the direct link.

I just mapped Speedy Polygon to my "p" key instead of Make Poly. Anyone think this was a bad idea?
Does Make Poly have any advantages over Speedy Polygon?

04 April 2002, 09:23 AM
Honestly, SpeedyQuad could be useful perhaps, but the others are outdated now I think.
The SpeedyWeld is useless, just set your alert level in LW to Intermediate or Advanced, and no window.
SpeedyPolygon looks - *edit*. Pick the points in any order to make a polygon? If I'm making a polygon, I WANT it made in a particular way - if you get my meaning.

Anyway, if you like it, use it! :)

04 April 2002, 10:07 AM
hmmm.... Yeah.....
Thats true. Especially if it is a funky shape. I guess I was thinking about for capping obvious shapes and filling in holes. I like how you don't have to flip the poly... or that has been the case since I have been playing around with it anyway. I guess I better keep the old "Make Poly" handy.

And I agree with you 100% on Speedy Weld.

I'm not sure about Speedy Quad yet... I am just starting to play with it as well.

04 April 2002, 12:43 PM
speedy quad is very good. Quite often it is very useful. If you have three points but want to make a quad. So there is no need anymore to create a new point etc. just select three poins in a parcicular order and it creats a quad.

04 April 2002, 04:06 PM
hey ts,

04 April 2002, 07:19 PM
Just to let those know who've been following this thread, I did an update on the Multimerge script so it has Interactivity!

You can see my last thread here.

04 April 2002, 07:43 PM
thx man!

i already downloaded it, but i couldn't try it out, (i've got an exam in 95h...time low...danger...time low...danger...time critical!!!)
but used the old and loved it... i'm eager to try the noo one!

04 April 2002, 09:12 PM
Man this thread is making me feel bacd about buying Vertibevel......

i can't wait for SMOO version 1.0

I paid 150 for Vertibevel and while it does a really GREAT job and is a time saver i'd rather pau Cman 50-60 bucks for a full-featured Smoo.:(

04 April 2002, 09:14 PM
Vertibevel is supposed to be an awesome tool.
When you need it, you'll be glad you have it, I'm sure.

04 April 2002, 07:34 AM

Yep, Smoo is coming along. I've been crazy busy, but working on it a little at a time.
I thinkI've finally figured out how I want to do the multiple saves, so it's just a short matter of time.
Thanks for all the good feedback guys!

05 May 2002, 07:14 PM
Hey guys,
Just to let ya'll know, I decided to go ahead and release Smoo as-is.
I don't think I'll ever get around to doing the there it is.
(Bottom of page...)

Plus the new LScript tools! I want to focus on trying to get Smoo to be TRULY interactive using a technique developed by TAZ. :)

05 May 2002, 07:16 PM
sweet Smoo! ah.....keep it up cMan!

infinity x
05 May 2002, 07:57 PM
Is Kag Extender + a free plugin because i searched flay and can't find it. Does it work with 6.5 ???

05 May 2002, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by infinity x
Is Kag Extender + a free plugin because i searched flay and can't find it. Does it work with 6.5 ???

Yes it's free.
Yes it's on Flay. (do search for "extender")
Yes it worked on 6.5 for me...if I remember correctly. :)

05 May 2002, 11:29 AM
wow cman, you are the one who makes this smoo?
well! thx a lot, its a very great plugin! i just tried it, it works very well. its just awsome!

btw, is there an easy way to make the plug windows non-modal? because actually we cant move/rotate the the 3dview when using the plug.
with this function, the plug will be perfect!

(mm... sorry for my frenchi english :)

05 May 2002, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by McGuffin

btw, is there an easy way to make the plug windows non-modal?

Nope. That's the closest LScript get's to "non-modal" - a hack really, discovered by Masayuki. At least, he showed me and I showed others.
I know it's very frustrating sometimes to not be able to see what's happening with Smoo, and turn it. If I knew how to write .p plugs it might be possible to make a tool which I supposed would allow true interactivity...but there it is.

I actually have a version that has spinners to spin the whole model, but it's very messy and not reliable enough to share.
I don't even use it! :)
So whatever...too much work, not enough return on investement, as it were.
Smoo is open source, so if you can think of a way to improve it, jump in and give it a go!
Just please share your change with the rest of us. :)


05 May 2002, 04:36 PM
great work cman!

Smoo has a place of honor among my shortcuts (shift+s ;) )

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