View Full Version : The Journey Begins Challenge (2D) Entry: Geoffrey Cramm

02 February 2006, 04:56 PM
Geoffrey Cramm is entered in the "The Journey Begins Challenge" update: View Challenge Page (

Latest Update: Coloring WIP: My "final" image --unfinished (

02 February 2006, 07:25 PM

Nice to see u again! :)

I wish u good luck

02 February 2006, 07:27 PM
Hey Koekebakker !

Good luck and make this ride a good one! :thumbsup:

02 February 2006, 09:12 PM
Wassup nice to see that u have returned hehe, good luck!:thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 03:33 AM (

My first idea is a SALMON trying to swim up the river, looking ahead on a dangerous, challenging (and eventually unattainable) journey, with hungry bears and a massive waterfall on the background.

Although a fish isn't exactly a character full of emotions, I have to find a way to capture the desperate look of someone trying something impossible. ;)

03 March 2006, 05:42 AM
this is gonna be good~especially the water splashing works!goodluck mate:)

03 March 2006, 06:17 AM
Wow,what a challenging idea! Thatīs the right spirit!

Nice start, keep it up.

03 March 2006, 06:29 AM
Yeah, this could really come to be a nice one! Like sh@ke said, this could really look good if you manage to make the splashing water work!!

Waiting to see more.

03 March 2006, 06:56 AM
Hey Geoffrey!
cool first concept!
These Journey's of salmon 'r' well known, brutal and extremely touph(dunno how to spell)
Waiting for more.. ;)

03 March 2006, 05:20 PM (

Thanks for the comments everyone. Here's a slightly altered version of the concept; adjustments made in composition and shape.

Not sure if this is the concept I'll be going for..I'll try some other things before I decide.

03 March 2006, 06:12 PM
Great start geoffery :thumbsup:
The journey is tough for the salmon , there is lot of action involoved in your painting, with heavy waterfalls, water splashing, and the salmon to go against the waters , trying escape the bear .......
keep the great work going on... nice color palette, certainly a great sketch .... go on.. :thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 06:19 PM
This is a very good concept. This is something i would never have thought of.
Good luck

Tee Double U
03 March 2006, 06:26 PM
you wont ever be able to have expression in the fish enough to convey the emmotion,, BUT,, you can still force the viewer to feel the hopeless underpinnings of his situation by focusing on the obsticles in his way,,,, the energy of the water, the scope of the uphill battle,, and the bear,,, dont put a fish in his mouth,, that makes him already fed and less of a danger to the fish in the foreground which is ultimatley your focus for this piece

03 March 2006, 07:24 PM
triumphant + Kahlan Amnell: thanks a lot! :)

Tee Double U: You're absolutely right, haven't thought of that :P thanks for the feedback.

03 March 2006, 07:31 PM
Hey great idea. Maybe you should make the fish a bit like the ones in the Nemo movie, so you can give them more of an expression. Also, I know this is just the sketch but the bear looks a bit weird to me :) more like a beaver or something. Its the head I think.

En is het niet 'koekenbakker' :D hehe

03 March 2006, 09:44 PM
Nice idea man!

03 March 2006, 11:09 PM
nice idea!

03 March 2006, 12:23 AM
Wow, this is a great idea! Never imagined a salmon's journey to be a good concept, but after seeing your imagine, I think it works great! Love your big angle shot, too. Good luck!

only pony
03 March 2006, 08:57 PM
Great sketch!!! nice point of view. I'll keep an eye on you

03 March 2006, 10:30 PM
We've come up with almost the same idea, I just wanted to use trouts :thumbsup: But I'm going away from the idea, so don't worry about us repeating each other's ideas :) Nice sketch, and you have a better compo :thumbsup: Keep it up. :bounce:

03 March 2006, 10:42 PM (

These are the lines that should help the image give a certain 'unity'.

The center circle includes a large part of the wild river, the head of the desperate fish and that of the hungry bear.
The outer circles are guidelines to other elements like rocks, splashing water, trees and branches that add to the composition structure.
Outside these circles (the corners of the image) I will use darker shades, almost black.

03 March 2006, 10:45 PM
yoitisi: I prefer to go for a realistic style, this time. As far as the bear goes, I'll make sure to look at a few more references when I work out the shape. Oh, and yes, it probably is KoekeNbakker, but to avoid spelling problems I'll simply change it to "Koek" one day.. ;P

DoInferno, Velarion, dash2k4, MikeTheHunter: Thanks a lot everyone! And good luck to you too. :)

only pony: Hey Gerrit, thanks! Good to see you've entered the challenge again! :)

03 March 2006, 10:52 PM
hmm, im not sure I would use black in the corners, wouldn't it look like the viewer is looking through some hole or magnifying glasses (especially with this composition)?

Also, with this composition alone, the attention will be drawn inwards, towards the middle of the circles (instead of the fish) isn't it? I think there should be something to focus on there in that case.

03 March 2006, 11:03 PM
Well, I don't exactly mean pure black ofcourse, just less light and contrast in those parts (especially the bottom- and top left, where shadowy rocks and trees fill up the space. I will make sure it isn't gonna look like a lens or something. Instead it should give a subtle claustrofobic, 'fish-eye' perspective feeling. Hopefully. :)

You're right about the attention being drawn into the very middle...Have to think of something for that. Thanks!

03 March 2006, 01:14 AM
Nice idea man, see ya over here!:thumbsup:


03 March 2006, 08:48 AM
In this kind of compo the attention is guided to the center of the image, indeed, but you could make the fish more important by makign it contrast more. The eye is always gong to the area of the greatest contrast. Try using it to accent the importance of the fish.

If that doesn't work - try apply the rule of thirds to it. It would require redoing a part of compo, but could work better. Have fun with it.

03 March 2006, 04:03 PM
Thanks Mike, I'll try a bunch of composition rules to try 'n make it work. It's about time I learned all the ins and outs about these basic rules. Usually I just start scribbling without paying any serious attention to it. :P

03 March 2006, 03:40 AM (

Getting to know a salmon... :]

03 March 2006, 09:44 AM
Nice concept! are you going for "realistic" shading etc. or more cartoony? Keep us updated. :)

03 March 2006, 12:03 PM
Fantastic idea - Really great idea :thumbsup:

It would be cool to have another slamon further in the background trying to make the leap up the waterfall - that would signal that some make it past the bear as well :D

Really cool idea - looking forward to seeing your progress. Good luck!

03 March 2006, 02:09 PM
am7: thanks! I'm going for a realistic realistic as possible, that is.

Overchord:thanks for the feedback, I'll add at least a few others to make sure he is not alone in his journey. :)

03 March 2006, 02:50 PM
wowz dat's one neatly rendered fish

sporty idea too


only pony
03 March 2006, 07:39 PM
nice fishes:thumbsup:. Maybe you could try to make them a bit more shinny.

03 March 2006, 10:42 PM (

I added a bit of space to the top for a better view of the sky and to emphasize the height of the waterfall. I used purple/pink/yellow tones for the sky to support the blue/green colors in the image. Colorwise I think it's a bit more balanced now, please let me know what you think!

03 March 2006, 10:47 PM
Squibbit: Thanks! :)

only pony: I will do that somewhere in the coloring process. (When will you get started by the way? :P

03 March 2006, 10:52 PM
hi there :)

Pretty cool idea and very cool & lively sketch :thumbsup: I think you could even move the salmon closer to the camera. right no hes about as big as the bear and i think it would be better for the composition to make the salmon bigger ( hes your main protagonist after all ) :D

03 March 2006, 11:14 PM
Ahh, good idea Vahn! That should make him a better focal point..thanks a lot!

03 March 2006, 08:38 PM
Hi there,

I'm also into a real life situation and i'm also painting a bear. Haven't seen much of nature or real life imagery around in this challenge. Cool dude!
Just keep your bear competitive to fishes in terms of realism, because he doesn't quite reach that level yet.

Best regards and big respect

Khan alias Chupacabra

My Journey Begins (

CG Portfolio (

03 March 2006, 11:04 PM
Very nice theme to go with man, and original too. Love it already, lots of dynamic, but maybe u could add a fish to a first plan also or something, so the viewer could have better chance to understand the way they r going through. just my opinion :) keep up the good work!

03 March 2006, 03:45 PM
Chupacabra: Thanks, i'll get into some bear-studying before I start the line-art. Perhaps I'll also change its' pose, too.

NinjaASSN: There will be a few more fishes one the fore- and background to make it clear what they are doing. :) Thanks for the advice!

03 March 2006, 03:48 PM (

A few changes in size, color and image aspect ratio.

03 March 2006, 12:23 AM
Great idea! I love how you put the challanges there in the distance too. I think you should make the bear eyeing them, like waiting for them with a cunning face.

Good luck!

03 March 2006, 07:56 AM
cool update geoffrey ,

how about the bear looking at the fish in the air ? just my thought .
keep the good work going on. :thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 10:10 AM
the composition looks much better now :) I like the colors.

Maybe its an idea to have the bear lying on the rock playing with or gnawing on an already catched salmon. I think giving him a too dynamic pose would distract the attention from the salmon in the foreground.

03 March 2006, 11:17 AM
Hm, yeah, looks great. Nice comp :thumbsup:
The others are right about the bear though, you should do something about him. And right now,if i may say so, he doesnīt look exactly bear-ish either.

Good work and tot ziens

03 March 2006, 12:52 AM
Silveraxe, triumphant, yoitisi, artvandeley: Thanks for the feedback, I shall change the bear's pose.

03 March 2006, 12:57 AM
really really nice.

it would maybe be more climactic if it looked as if there path will take them past those hunting bears. while we do get the idea now, it's something that could be clearer.

love the idea, can't wait to see it get finished.

PS - that waterfall is gunna be a challenge for those fish. hope they had their wheaties

03 March 2006, 03:49 PM (

What do you think?

Nah, just fooling around, tonight I'll submit a version with a few changes. Thanks anzibon, I'll take your advice into account as well. :)

03 March 2006, 12:32 AM (

Well, lots of changes to the waterfall, the dangers on the way up (more bears!) and a new pose for the main bear. Also some depth elements added, like a simple depth of field and some branches to fill up the empty spaces.

Let me know what you think!

03 March 2006, 07:05 AM
Muuuch better now. Looks real.



My Journey begins (

03 March 2006, 07:13 AM
Really Nice work. excellent color - the pose of the bear is great - my only crit would be to suggest that you vary the length of the water fall, it has a stair step feel - excellent work

04 April 2006, 11:06 AM
Cool original concept! very very nice.

04 April 2006, 07:03 PM (

Chupacabra: Thanks a lot! Took some time, glad it's better now. :)

SideAche: You're right. I tried to change it to something more natural and less discreet, without having to redraw large parts. Hope this is better!

notpill: Thanks. :)

04 April 2006, 08:26 PM
Nice! I' going to enjoy watching this turn out.

04 April 2006, 10:22 PM (

I don't wanna waste time on line art as I'll probably add and change things on the fly. So...onward to the coloring phase now! We'll see how it goes. ;)

05 May 2006, 02:18 PM

I like the whole dynamic atmosphere and the compositions. The coloring looks nice, too.
A small comment on the latest addition: First, the bear stood on a pointy rock, which made it haunting and seemed to pose more of a threat to the fish. Now, the bear stands much lower, thus making it seem less dangerous.

On the other hand, the bear now stands closer to the water, enabling him to actually catch something. :)

05 May 2006, 01:04 PM (

I won't be able to finish it in time. Studying, work, and a little snowboard accident kept me from finishing it, unfortunately...I'll finish it some other time I guess. Ah well, thanks everyone! :)

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