View Full Version : The Journey Begins Challenge (3D) Entry: Michael Burburan

02 February 2006, 12:42 PM
Michael Burburan is entered in the "The Journey Begins Challenge" update: View Challenge Page (

Latest Update: Final Image: A Beast's Beginning (

02 February 2006, 12:58 PM (

My first concept for this challenge. I'll probably be using this fantasy/dragon hatchling theme, and using a similar colour palette to this image.

I tried to get the mother as a kind of 'gateway' to the open world, although I think I'll have to change the pose slightly, especially the left side (it's meant to be a wing).

Haven't really thought about background details at the moment.

And good luck to everyone!

02 February 2006, 02:35 PM
I like this idea a lot - its an original take on the theme - and the image looks like it will have a really epic feel to it. Also, even if you do change the pose of the mother, i really like the way you have her body framing the image, and compositionally her head also draws your attention back to the newly hatched baby dragon. Looking forward to seeing how this goes!

03 March 2006, 01:33 PM
I like this idea a lot - its an original take on the theme - and the image looks like it will have a really epic feel to it. Also, even if you do change the pose of the mother, i really like the way you have her body framing the image, and compositionally her head also draws your attention back to the newly hatched baby dragon. Looking forward to seeing how this goes!

Thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty relieved that you could see some of the things I was going for. I'm not exactly the greatest at sketching these concepts.

03 March 2006, 01:34 PM
ha ha! this is a good idea! Really sweet. Are you going for cartoony or realistic look?

03 March 2006, 01:45 PM
Hey nice idea... (subscribes)

03 March 2006, 02:20 PM
ha ha! this is a good idea! Really sweet. Are you going for cartoony or realistic look?

Going for a realistic look. Hopefully I'll be able to pull it off.

sergioKomic - My first subscription! Thanks so much.:)

03 March 2006, 02:32 PM
Hey, that's a nice concept.

Good luck with it.:arteest:


03 March 2006, 02:42 PM
Good luck with your journey! Will check this later :thumbsup: I like it!

03 March 2006, 04:06 PM (

Some head concepts for the dragons in the scene.

03 March 2006, 06:48 PM
Hey cool idea, and nice skechs!

Good luck:)

03 March 2006, 01:28 AM
Hey, that's a nice concept.

Good luck with it.:arteest:

Thanks for the support!

Good luck with your journey! Will check this later :thumbsup: I like it!

Thanks. Hope you check back!

Hey cool idea, and nice skechs!

Good luck:)

Thanks as well for the support.

I should be starting modelling later today, and I'll post something, so maybe there'll be a bit more for you guys to look at.

03 March 2006, 06:10 AM
hi,nice to meet you,:) nice concept and sketch.gonna be a great image i think.i love the dragons.i'll look forward to see the modeling.good luck.:thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 07:50 AM
The idea is really nice!
Iīm curious to see the 3d version of those two dragons! :thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 09:51 AM
Hi there !!

Really cool concept , I like it a lot !
Could be really cute !!!
Looking forward to see more of this work !

Have a lots of fun and best of luck !

cheers ,


03 March 2006, 10:08 AM
Dragons love dragons will watch the dragons grow gee dragons i told you i love dragons dragons are sooooo coool yes they are cant wait to see more dragons their the best yip dragons rule the world hail the dragons i wish i had a pet dragon this is a coool idea cuz it got dragons i love dragons dragons dragons dragons dragons dragons dragons .......

*faces goes blue*


03 March 2006, 01:30 PM
A very nice concept, Michael. Go for it :thumbsup: .

03 March 2006, 04:03 PM (

It's not much...but started modelling the dragon eggs.

Hopefully i'll get started on the characters soon.

03 March 2006, 04:09 PM
Modelling allready?.... :scream:

03 March 2006, 04:18 PM
xric7 - thanks:) I'll be checking out yours too.

Alberto_Ro - thanks, should get round to starting the characters soon.

Zapan - Yep, I'll try to get the little guy looking curious and cute. thanks for the comment.

RhyderKey - wow :eek: you seem to like dragons a lot, but thats fine, since i do too (and so should everyone). Thanks.

sergage - thanks man.

sergioKomic - yeah i started modelling, although I kinda wasn't brave enough to take on the characters today so went for the eggs instead:scream:. Thanks for the quick reply though!

03 March 2006, 04:40 PM
One question (if those are polys): are the polygons single faced? I mean do you have another surface for the inner of the egg or it's the same surface as the outer?

03 March 2006, 04:47 PM

nice start! I like the idea of the open gate... for sure there is a lot of potential in this image to display a long journey for those little dragons :thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 04:48 PM
sergage - Yes, the polys are single faced. However, it does look weird because the two halves are not joined at the moment, plus the thin membrame inside the eggs that they have was just a quick mockup, isn't accurately placed, and also contributes to the strange look of the edge.:scream:

I'll definitely be reworking the modelling of the eggs, but thanks for bringing it to my attention.:)

03 March 2006, 05:14 PM
Good job on making that cracked shell geometry look so authentic, a daunting task for even the most seasoned modeller Id say!

03 March 2006, 05:24 PM
The reason I brought it up is that I recently worked on a scene where I discovered for myself that it is very important how the surface is created and what's more - what direction do the normals face. It has much to do with indirect light, as long as I understand.

Keep up the good stuff :thumbsup: .

03 March 2006, 07:49 PM
A nice composition indeed.:thumbsup: And now your modeling wow. I hadn't even thought about modeling yet. Yikes:scream:

Keep up the good work and looking forward to seeing the end of this journey:thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 04:41 AM
theuni - Thanks!

Crin - Wow, thanks. I wouldn't consider myself a seasoned modeller though. Yeah, it's kinda finicky cracking the egg, but I wasn't ready to start characters yet. I thought maybe if I get sick of it I'd have more fun making the character.:D

I'm not quite happy with the look of the eggs though.:scream:

sergage - Thanks for letting me know. Haven't heard about that, I thought double sided polys would act the same as normal polys, just for both sides. Well, I'll look it up.:thumbsup:

papalatistudios - Thanks for the reply. Yep, I gotta keep modelling before I get snowed under with uni work...:scream:so I'm trying to do some stuff early on!

03 March 2006, 05:02 AM (

Got around to modelling the characters, starting with the young dragon.

03 March 2006, 07:18 AM

nice modelling start you made there... maybe you should keep in mind that mountain dragons look a bit "rocky". Not in terms of music :) but maybe their skin got adabted to their surrounding after a couple of million years :thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 07:57 AM
Very nice modeling!
No critics so far!

03 March 2006, 10:41 AM
Hi Burpy !

Wow you're rushing ! Awesome !
Really nice eggs , and great beginning on that head !
Waitin' for updates !

Keep it up !

cheers ,


03 March 2006, 11:05 AM
theuni - Rocky detailed goodness will be coming!...but i don't want to make it too detailed before i flesh out the body. Also, the mother will look a lot more weathered than the baby.;)

Thanks for the crit, I'll definitely keep it in mind.

Alberto_Ro - Thanks!

Zapan - Wow, you're following my thread! Your sketches so far are great, unfortunately I haven't posted in your thread yet.

Rushing...that's not a good thing. I am being careful at each stage. I'm really excited about this comp though, so I guess I am working on it a fair amount.

Thanks for the reply.

03 March 2006, 11:10 AM
Hi there,

very nice idea, the birth of a little Dragon is great and that the first thing he seeīs is the grand view over the moutains where other youg dragons fly around...

Looking forward to see more dude...


03 March 2006, 12:21 PM
Modeling on the way. That is nice update. What about your background dragons? Are you going for matte painting?

03 March 2006, 12:24 PM
great concept.. i am loving the modeling so far looks very impressive....keep it up!

03 March 2006, 12:45 PM
Great just one surggestion make the eyes a bit bigger babys always have large eye when compared to their bodies

03 March 2006, 09:48 PM
Great start in on the modeling, its looking really good! :thumbsup:

Matt :)

03 March 2006, 01:19 AM
larsgehrt - thanks!

Oweron - I'd like to render as much as possible, maybe only the sky being painted...I'd probably matte paint more if I was running out of time though.:shrug:

arkecreative - thanks!

RhyderKey - You're right, I'm probably gonna make them a bit bigger. It's just that baby lizards and things don't have really huge eyes, so I didn't want them bulging, could've also started making it look cartoony. Also, the species of dragons in my image have quite small eyes (look at the mother concept), so that's another reason why the baby's aren't as big.

But it does have a bit too much of an adult look about it, thanks, I'll look into the eyes:thumbsup:

mmbenya - Thanks!

03 March 2006, 01:21 AM (

Small update on the young dragon. Bit more head detail, and started blocking out the body.

You might be able to see more of where I'm going to in terms of style than from the previous model.

03 March 2006, 07:29 AM
Hi burpy,

maybe you should consider of tapering the snout a little bit more... Babydragon still looks a bit like a duck :)

03 March 2006, 07:44 AM
....... great concept, great sketches and a great modelling start. Am really looking forward to seeing this one progress. Enjoy the journey......! :thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 10:40 AM
theuni - You're right! I hadn't noticed that, thanks, will be modified shortly:)

Claireabella - Thanks! I'm definitely enjoying the journey:)

03 March 2006, 10:45 AM (

Almost finished the base mesh for the baby! Except I just realised now that I had forgotten hands completely, stupid me.

I'll probably enlarge the egg a bit too. And try to ignore the tail sticking out the back of the egg haha.

03 March 2006, 11:19 AM
I like the concept and the modeling so far..
*subcribes* ;)

03 March 2006, 11:54 AM
Hi, very nice concept and really good start for the modeling - this will be fun to follow :thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 11:59 AM
Hey burpy,

nice modelling... I see you already tapered the snout a bit :) Are you planing to put some little horns & stuff onto babydragon (hey and what about a name for the little one?) Maybe one little "baby opens eggs from inside" horn onto the snout... great work so far, keep going!

03 March 2006, 12:03 PM
small dragon is lovely but make slivers and more detail:wip:

03 March 2006, 12:34 PM
Looking good. I Like the character sketches.

Zia_Mercenary XIX:

03 March 2006, 01:04 PM
Wow, I really like the small dragon! Itīs looking great!
Youīre speedy! :D

03 March 2006, 03:49 PM
MichaelMotion - Thanks, hope I won't disappoint!

Gunilla - Thanks!

theuni - Thanks! Actually from that update I hadn't tapered the snout yet:scream:, must be just the camera angle making it look slightly different. BUT, i have now tapered the snout, and I think it looks a lot better, that was a great tip that I missed, thanks. You'll see it in the next update, whenever that'll be.

Hmm...horns, I was going to give the mother all the horns, since the baby has just the nubs to grow them. Haven't really thought about one on the snout, but even if there was, the baby would have a small version of it, so not sure if it'd be much help getting out of the egg. Not sure if I'll add something there, I'll think about it.

A name, huh? No idea, you can have the honour of naming it if you want!

kostra(skeleton) - Slivers (wrinkles?), scales, and detail will still be coming, mostly in the bump and displacement though.

vincent1 - Thanks for the reply!

Alberto_Ro - Thanks for the compliment. Am I Speedy?...Or do I have nothing else to do?:D

03 March 2006, 03:57 PM
Nice concept. I like the progression from sketch to model. Looking forward to see the large dragon.

03 March 2006, 04:31 PM
Aww , that's so cute !
The egg is just :thumbsup:
I've read this is the base mesh of the baby dragon , so I guess you're gonna move it into Zb for detailling , can't wait to see that !

Keep up the good work !

cheers ,


03 March 2006, 04:50 PM
Nice idea and modeling. But head of dragon looks a little to big for me if compared to rest of the egg.

03 March 2006, 05:44 PM
Am I Speedy?...Or do I have nothing else to do?:D

I hear you on that one! lol

Nice work on the baby dragon! I can imagine some lovely SSS on those wings, mmmmmm translucency.

03 March 2006, 12:17 PM
a-papantoniou - Thanks.:)

Zapan - Thanks! I will move into zb for detailing, although I don't think I'm going to make the baby tooo lumpy.

Hynol - Yep you're right. I will make the egg bigger the next time you see it! Thanks for the reply.

Crin - haha yes I've got free time at the moment! Yes I'm aiming for slightly translucent wings, with a sunset right behind! Hopefully producing a nice light glow effect.:)

Thanks for the reply.

03 March 2006, 12:21 PM (

I added hands, and changed some areas. Sharpened the snout, eye is slightly bigger, and added a little horn nub. Which will grow to mammoth size!

I unwrapped the whole thing, then just felt like painting something so I started the eye and putting bumps.

03 March 2006, 01:14 PM
Hey Burpy,

...much better!!! :thumbsup: Babydragon starts to look really nice! Snout - just perfect, with this little egg shell opener horn!!!

03 March 2006, 02:11 PM
He looks very nice now! :thumbsup:
Canīt wait to see the final textured version!

03 March 2006, 02:46 PM
Nice Development. The bump looks good. I thought you were taking it to ZB though, to do those things...

03 March 2006, 03:58 PM
wow! your dragon is really so cute , i love it:thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 04:01 PM
Great progress so far. If you made the eyes on the little dragon alittle bigger, more round as well, I think it would add more innocence to him/her. Giving a more vulnerable feeling.

Keep it up!!

03 March 2006, 04:34 PM
Texture looks the theme. Good luck on finishing it.

03 March 2006, 05:04 PM
Iris shoudn't be green afaik. It's unnatural a little and makes eye looks like dimed. Young creatures should have good contrast in eye texture imho.

03 March 2006, 02:47 AM
Wow, you are really smokin along and the results are looking really good. The lil' dino looks great!

03 March 2006, 09:08 AM
That's a very nice model. Are you planning to add more details to the model's hands and wing? I believe it will look better. I also like it's eyes. Pretty scary.

03 March 2006, 01:47 PM
theuni - Thanks! You helped me along with it with your crits though!

Alberto_Ro - Thanks!

a-papantoniou - Yeah, haha, got a little carried away as I just felt like painting in ps as I had the uvw map open. Still could take it to zb though, but I'm not completely sure now as I don't want to make that a lot of lumpy changes. I'm disorganised!:banghead:

At the moment I want to focus on texturing him well. Thanks for the reply!

kreuz - Thanks!

glennyP - Yeah, still not too sure about the eyes. I was just thinking that a lot of reptiles have very small eyes, and do so even as a baby. But it would make him more innocent looking...hmm...I'll think about it.

Thanks for the reply!
Kid Mesh - Thanks! Yep gotta keep :wip: away!

Hynol - Thanks, yes the eye does look dim now that you mention it. I'll try some other colours and some more bright streaks. Nice crit!

soapy - Thanks!

simovici - Thanks! More details will be coming in the textures, but as for the modelling, it depends if I'll take it into zb. But more details is always good, so I'd like to put more in the wings and hands.

03 March 2006, 08:30 PM
Very impressed by your speed of modelling! - This little guy is really coming together!

03 March 2006, 12:45 PM (

Hey all, haven't had much time to work on this since last post. Started the colour map, and here's where I'm at so far.

03 March 2006, 01:40 PM
The little dragon is coming along very nicely, i like the textures very much and that i looks like a small dragon... Just keep on modelling...


03 March 2006, 01:55 PM
Nice work, burpy. Good concept, modelling and texturing:thumbsup:. I was just wondering if you had considered giving the dragon some highlights to simulate that wet look that reptiles sometimes have, especially ones recently hatched.

03 March 2006, 04:01 PM
Hi burpy,

nice progress... just thought about chicken getting out of eggs... don`t they have some sort of bloody skin from inside the egg around their head. Maybe just some shreds? Just a humble thought...

03 March 2006, 05:21 PM
Generaly,I like the composition,like the atmosphere of the entire sketch u made with baby and mom dragon.

But I personaly think you could make the dragon look better,with more edge,
I want to believe that this dragon is real,,but looking at one you made doesnt help me.

Dont get me wrong,Im not being ofensive,and dont want to discourage you or in any way
bring down your work or on contrary make you mad.

Id like to help you make better dragons,I like dinosaurs,which probabaly inspired man to bring dragons to our world of storys and myths,making me like dragons aswell.

If you are willing to listen,Id giv you few advices that might help you,I'l post some sketches and hints that could be helpfoul.
If you disagree, I wish you have nice journey anyway.


03 March 2006, 08:17 AM
Selina42 - Thanks!

larsgehrt - Thanks:)

Hoju - Yes, I've considered it. Just haven't got around to making him look bloody/wet/mucus-y/etc. Haven't thought about exactly how shiny he would be (haven't looked it up much either). I should get around to that soon. Thanks for the reply!

theuni - Yep, that's a really good idea. I was going to have some of that - see the response above, although I personally thinks that always looks ugly. Just hatched/born things look terrible imo, even if 5 minutes later when washed they can look cute! So that's one of the reasons I don't want to overdo it, but I do want at least some of that effect. Thanks for the crit, you always give me something to keep in my mind and work towards!:thumbsup:

A I R - That would be unbelievable if you could!:) Don't worry, criticise as much as possible. The offer to actually sketch out your criticism is very generous. If you have the time, then please, i would love the advice.

Thanks for the reply!

03 March 2006, 09:28 AM
wow Burby I like your work but make more detail on model, texture is nice:thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 04:13 PM (

Some more texturing/shader work. Been going a bit slow lately...arrgh.

03 March 2006, 05:43 PM
Nice texturing work! How are you geting that division depression for the scales? Displacement maps?

03 March 2006, 11:08 PM
As I can see,I cant help you with texturin' cos I think I dont have any advance comparing to you,I like the way you textured dragon wings,and like some parts on the head.

In the attachment youl find how I see places where you could improve.
Hope it helps,I might send in more advices if you see this one helpfoul.

Buy,and keep sharp MICHAEL :thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 02:59 PM
Crin - Thanks! The scales are just part of the bump map.:)

A I R - Thankyou so much for taking the time for the detailed criticism.

Eyes - I seem to have a problem with thinking about spherical eyes.:scream: I always end up making them egg shaped for some reason. I will be making the eyes spherical in the next update.

Flaps - They're not so much flappy things as things that will grow into rock hard spikes such as on the mother concept. And in that case, they should've been more joined onto the body. They are somewhat badly implemented, but I don't think I'll be changing them on the baby. However, I will keep in mind to keep it more natural for the mother.

Jaw - They were meant to be a kind of 'flap' hanging from the chin...but it was a bit halfhearted an attempt. I'll look into this.

I also have sharpened the snout, and think I won't make it go to as much of a point as yours does. Just looks a bit too much like a bird for me.

Again, thanks so much for taking the time to put together your version of it. I really like it and will be incorporating some of the shapes and details you put into it. I just hope I didn't take time away from doing your own...:scream::)

03 March 2006, 05:06 PM
I think that if you follow A I Rīs advice, the result will be much better!

03 March 2006, 05:31 PM
The color of the dragon clidrem can be more white... and less scale.
You see the picture of a litlle kangaroo?


03 March 2006, 06:38 PM
Yow, great modeling ! No crits to this point :thumbsup: Keep it up, it will be a fine illustration :thumbsup:
All the best man!

03 March 2006, 11:02 PM
I liked very much of your ideal guy, and your modeling work is very good too. Good luck!

My Journey Idea:

My site:

03 March 2006, 04:29 PM
Very nice, Me like!
Good luck!

03 March 2006, 04:33 PM
Looking good.
I like the new details keep going:scream:

03 March 2006, 04:54 PM
Alberto_Ro - I've incorporated a few of the things, but I don't know how much I want to change it similar to A I R's. I just think it looks more like a bird. I think the head is a lot better now than the one compared to in that post though.

The crit that A I R gave (which I'm very grateful for) made me think a lot about the model, and even if the changes aren't too obvious, it did make me consider a lot of them. In the end though, we all have our own visual style. I love A I R's work, and his entries for the previous competitions, but just want to do this in my own way. I hope it doesn't look as if I simply ignored his suggestions.

Raul Tabajara - Thanks for the image!:) But a few posts ago I had a mini-rant about exactly that look. It's UGLY! I actually had made a conscious decision before I started to make the baby appear more adult-like. To me, dragons should be king straight from the egg - no weak flesh for them.:) I just didn't want it to look that way.

thierry2005, High3d, varma, tuck - Thanks for the replies!

03 March 2006, 04:59 PM (

Well I rigged and posed the dragon. Haven't finished texturing or anything yet, but I'm gonna take a break from this character for now and work on something else, as I'm not sure exactly how much will be seen in the final image.

The eye is still just a sphere, but now it is spherical, the eye is enlarged, and snout is sharpened. But, I'm going to take a break from this guy for now...thanks everybody for the replies which helped me improve up to this point.

03 March 2006, 05:04 PM
Very nice!
One thing: shouldnīt you add some translucency on those wings? :D

03 March 2006, 10:40 AM (

A test for the foreground terrain that the eggs will be sitting on. The main shape of the terrain I manually modelled in zbrush. I haven't begun texturing it yet, apart from the procedural stand-in bump that's on it now.

03 March 2006, 05:02 AM
Awesome looking terrain, burpy. Keep up the good work.:thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 04:11 PM
Hey Michael,

You have a nice concept and I like the pose of large dragon:thumbsup: The modeling looks to be off to a good start . I am thinking the baby dragon could use some teeth maybe . It is looking good ,great stuff.

03 March 2006, 04:29 PM
hello there!

Very nice concept and good idea..

It's defintely coming along nicely, and quickly ;)

really don't have anything to crit at this point. it's a very well thought through idea...

03 March 2006, 05:24 PM
really nice terrain !

03 March 2006, 08:30 AM
Alberto_Ro - Haha yes I still need to do that! I'll get around to it eventually!

Hoju - Thanks!

mmoir - Yeah, maybe some small teeth would suit him! Thanks for the reply.

Dennis.P, Ludal - Thanks.:)
I'm going to be starting the mother dragon soon...I can't wait!:bounce: Hopefully I'll be able to post the full concept later today.

03 March 2006, 01:12 PM (

As promised, a concept sketch later today! Say if you want anything added/removed from it, like it/hate it, whatever! I'm still excited about creating this guy.

03 March 2006, 01:23 PM
Yeee, here is another mother :scream: Very nice mythical look you did on her. I have some doubts about her stern. Looks too havy to me. I love masculature body look. This Big one should be easy to ride, ha ha ha.

03 March 2006, 01:38 PM
Yeee, here is another mother :scream: Very nice mythical look you did on her. I have some doubts about her stern. Looks too havy to me. I love masculature body look. This Big one should be easy to ride, ha ha ha.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, she is a bit 'solid' and heavy for a flying creature, to say the least:scream:, so I might thin the front a bit. But, I love how powerful it looks right now. I wanted it to say - you don't go near this thing (Even the tail means business). Decisions...decisions...:scream:

03 March 2006, 02:58 PM
No no, it was not about how havy looks her body. It was only about her tail ( stern ) . Just that. I love how big and strong she is. Just thin the END :scream:

03 March 2006, 03:21 PM
I love how you've done the terrain, looks amazing especially with the DOF :scream: .

03 March 2006, 03:25 PM
Hey Michael!

motherdragon looks very strong, maybe lengthen her frontlegs more, so the chest area will be higher, makes a more strong, proud impression.. :shrug: just a thought, looks good!

03 March 2006, 03:47 PM

wow... really nice progress you made in this short time :thumbsup: Nice sketch of the mother dragon... may just a little thought, the tail looks a bit to thick, but only my humble opinion... great work so far keep going...

03 March 2006, 05:16 PM (

As promised, a concept sketch later today! Say if you want anything added/removed from it, like it/hate it, whatever! I'm still excited about creating this guy.

I think I'm gonna hate YOU soon ! OMG this gonna be huge ! splendid sketch :applause:

cheers ,


03 March 2006, 05:34 AM
I like your drawing, burpy:eek:. All the muscles seem to be going where they should and it does look like an adult version of the baby dragon. I do have to agree with Oweron about the size of the tail though; I think it should taper off more. I don’t like to criticize you work as you obviously know what you are doing.:thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 11:28 AM
Oweron - Oops, lol. Well, other people have said the same thing...I'm gonna go back and rework it to look more natural - but still as nasty and clubbing as ever.:twisted:

sergage - Thanks!

MichaelMotion - Hi! Hmm, I always thought legs on most animals were close to the same length and their pose gave them that regal look. I looked up a few images of cats, lions, zebras, etc, and this seems to be the case. BUT, you have sharp observation skills!:), because I think you're right, the back legs are actually longer than the front ones if they were straightened, so I think they will be made a tad longer. Thanks!

theuni - Hey, thanks for the reply! Your humble opinion is not so humble and in fact right! Others have said the same, and I will be reworking the tail.

Zapan - If anything, I should be hating you for your amazing sketching and modelling skills!:) Can't wait to see your piece finished.:thumbsup: Thanks for the reply.

Hoju - Thanks, tail will be reworked - as everyone says, it is strangely large. And if I look like I know what I'm doing - I'm sure it's a complete fluke!:scream: I DEMAND criticism next time! Haha, thanks for the reply.:)

03 March 2006, 12:18 PM
i smell some air ..not bad but muscular anatomy is way from good..whay am i sayin u have msn ? cause i really hate pm ing drawovers lol..seriously i thin i can give u a few pointers also

03 March 2006, 08:41 PM
I like the dragon concept . I would like it to have bigger wings but that's just a matter of preferences . Good luck !

03 March 2006, 09:20 PM
i smell some air ..not bad but muscular anatomy is way from good..whay am i sayin u have msn ? cause i really hate pm ing drawovers lol..seriously i thin i can give u a few pointers also

Eeee, whatīs wrong with sharing your pointers to all of us watching this entry? Come on, show us some muscle_mastering :scream: Donīt get me wrong nebezial, I mean this in very good and polite way :thumbsup:

03 March 2006, 09:24 PM
Excellent dragon concept you got there man!

this is going to be nice :D

03 March 2006, 09:30 PM
Eeee, whatīs wrong with sharing your pointers to all of us watching this entry? Come on, show us some muscle_mastering :scream: Donīt get me wrong nebezial, I mean this in very good and polite way :thumbsup:

lol i know what u mean but this aint my thread and its not polite to impose myself..

03 March 2006, 09:35 PM
lol i know what u mean but this aint my thread and its not polite to impose myself..

Got it :thumbsup: Will see it on next update probably. Cheers.

03 March 2006, 09:36 AM
nebezial - Yeah I need to sit down and study and draw these things...I'm a bit lazy:scream: Thanks for any help you can provide! I pm'ed you my msn. And I don't mind at all if you post the paintover in the thread!

Eratrioch - Thanks! Ok I might make the wings bigger...they're meant to be spread out more from top view though, so maybe they'll end up being bigger than you can see in this pic because they're not accurately drawn.:)

Oweron - Haha nebezial can post whatever he wants in my thread, I don't mind...but if he doesn't, check out his anatomy thread, there's even some on dragons when I looked through it yesterday.:thumbsup:

Dennis.P - Thanks!

03 March 2006, 10:42 AM
Hey Burpy! Think your latest sketch has a really strong, heraldic look to it! I agree that some areas of the musculature need to be tweeked (for instance the stomach needs to be pulled up) -but i'm sure nebezial can sort you out! Maybe looking at some heraldry too might also give you some pointers. Hope Nebezial does post on here - its always great to see a good crit/tute!

03 March 2006, 11:21 AM
HI Burpy, really nice dragon sketch, I think the tail need some work... just me:)

03 March 2006, 02:17 PM
Selina42 - Hi.:) Thanks, you mean like the designs on heraldric shields? (thats just what I'm remembering right now) I hadn't thought of it like that, but I guess it kinda is! I generally like those designs, so thanks.:) Maybe I'll look some up.

alvin_cgi - Yeah, I've made the tail thinner now. Thanks for the comment!

I modified the concept a bit, I'll probably modify more of it as I model it.

03 March 2006, 02:20 PM (

Haven't updated for a little while, but I've managed to start modeling now. Just started with the head.

03 March 2006, 10:30 PM
nice design of the dragon but the front horn seems a little bit to big to me
good luck

03 March 2006, 02:52 AM
Your Dragon is coming along really Good.......

03 March 2006, 12:09 PM
It's looking good and is very close to your sketch. Davision got me thinking about the size of it's horn though. It is a little big and slightly distracting, although with the rest of them going down it's back it may put everything back in perspective:shrug:. I’ll have to wait and see.:)

03 March 2006, 02:42 PM
Davision - Thanks! Yeah, from some angles it look a bit out of place. I'll see how it goes. Thanks for the crit.:)

blueferret - Thanks!

Hoju - Thanks.:) Maybe it is a bit distracting, I'll look into it. Also the shape of it is a bit square rather than round at the moment, maybe that's contributing to the strange look. I'll have to wait and see as well.:) Thanks for the crit!

I just want to say if some parts seem flat/undetailed atm...I will definitely be taking this one into zbrush for detailing - since it's going to take up a laaarge part of the image and be a huge focus.

03 March 2006, 09:52 AM
Very cool concept man, go on

03 March 2006, 10:10 AM
Nice sculpting. I think your sculpts look a bit softer than your drawings. The edges between features on the 3D sculpt look as though they might need another edgeloop so the subdivision scheme doesn't smooth out your details.


03 March 2006, 11:01 AM
Great concept dude.Like the modelling and texturing.Keep going!

03 March 2006, 08:09 PM
Hey Burpy!

Yep -thats exactly what i meant! I like your new model so far. I kind of see what Hoju is saying about the horn, but at the same time, it also clearly looks quite lethal and obviously for use as a vicious fighting weapon so i do think it works!

03 March 2006, 09:41 PM
:) keep up the good work man.

04 April 2006, 02:37 PM
Waiting for some updates. :deal:


04 April 2006, 01:07 AM
Hey, I'm new, I was just looking at the dragon and couldn't help but want to see how it was modelled. Could you post a wireframe? I'm a Rhino 3D user, but I may be able to figure out how to model something like your dragon if I could see the wireframe. Great dragon by the way. I like the gloss on the back of the baby.
Aaron Law

04 April 2006, 03:31 AM
definitely agree with an early post about the mother framing your scene...also think the scene would look cool if you could have smoke/fire sparks coming from both the mother and baby...just 2 cents good luck

04 April 2006, 04:38 PM (

Ugh, I've had a lot of other work to do recently. But now I'm free to work on this constantly again! So hopefully updates will come faster than the last few weeks.

I'm going to move into zbrush at this stage with this model to do all the muscles. Should be fun! I changed the anatomy in places thanks to nebezial's generous paintover he sent me - he's really helpful.

Thanks all for visiting and commenting in this thread in my absence!

04 April 2006, 04:46 PM
hi Michaeli like your idea it's really good.

the dragon is coming along nice can't waith to see the texture.


04 April 2006, 04:49 PM
shemosus - Thanks!

jamiemccarter - Thanks for the crit! Yeah, I tend to have a blurryness probably, funnily enough in 2D AND 3D. I'll keep this in mind.;)

SONIC-X - Thanks.:)

Selina42 - Thanks. Yeah, I'll see how it goes.:shrug:

shemosus - Thanks again!:) I hadn't even updated yet and you give me another reply!;)

Russel-Nash - Well I've finally actually done something. Hopefully you check back! Thanks for the reply.:)

airman122469 - Hi.:) No problem, I'll have it up for you in a sec. (That's if you visit the thread again, since it hasn't moved for ages)

oceanbluesky - Thanks! I was thinking about maybe showing the eggs have life by having a glowy fire within them in the final image. Smoke/fire may be a possibility - you're right, it could look good.

04 April 2006, 05:11 PM
airman122469 - Here you go, hope it's useful.;) (

rjsmal - Thanks for the reply!

04 April 2006, 07:55 PM
Very good starting point, great mesh

04 April 2006, 08:04 PM
Hi Michael; That's a very strong character you have here, kind of more modern and
non-traditional type of a dragon, especially the way wings are conected to the
body. I would really like it in a furious pose!
Good luck with Z and texturing!

04 April 2006, 08:31 PM
Hey, burpy! I like your dragon model! Intresting concept! :thumbsup:

04 April 2006, 05:13 AM
Looking forward to seeing the Z-brush results -- really like what you achieved with the foreground test renders. Good work, especially field of focus blur...

04 April 2006, 09:44 PM
nice little dragon keep up the great work

04 April 2006, 07:06 AM
Glad to see you back, Burpy:wavey:. Good luck with the zbrush thing.

04 April 2006, 12:00 PM
Good Dragon, about the back legs, I think this is wrong.

See this site with Skeletal, Musculature and Skin Anatomy

Correct this in ZBrush :D

good luck

04 April 2006, 03:58 PM
ilusiondigital - Thanks.:)

varma - Thanks! And I'll try to have it looking furious while its flying around.

BobbEr - Thanks!

oceanbluesky - I've never done any terrain before, so it's great how you like it! Thanks.:)

rjsmal - Thanks for the reply.

Hoju - Glad to be back.:) Thanks.

ziriguidum - Thanks for the crit. I actually did use that reference for the mother dragon! It was really helpful, although I thought the bone structure in the back leg in that reference and mine is the same? Sorry if I missed something. I'll try to flesh it out in zb so it's more obvious, though. Thanks.:)

04 April 2006, 04:01 PM (

I started some zb work on the mother (after mapping the whole thing), and here's where I'm at so far.

04 April 2006, 04:02 PM
nice concept. I love the lowpoly look of the dragon.
are you planning to zBrush the hell of it?
waiting for updates!

04 April 2006, 04:06 PM
The dragon is coming along nicely! Nice base mesh too. Btw how do you take zbrush screenshots of your models? Also remember to establish asymmetry when your done detailing. And will the mother dragon be even more colorful than the child?

04 April 2006, 12:25 AM
thanks, it does a little, but since it was box modelled the mesh will look different when I start mine. :bounce:

Aaron Law

04 April 2006, 02:30 AM
voxelMan - Thanks! Yep, I'm planning to zbrush the hell out of it!:)

Womball - Thanks.:) To take screenshots I just use ALT-PRINTSCREEN. (on a PC) Thanks for the tip about assymetry. I was planning on making the mother darker looking than the child, rather than more colourful. Hope you'll like it anyway.;)

airman122469 - No problem! Thanks for the reply.

04 April 2006, 09:29 AM (

Some more detailing work on the head. I'll be painting the finest wrinkles in photoshop later as it's getting slow to paint more subdivided.

04 April 2006, 10:04 AM (

I've being painting the bump and colour maps in photoshop. I've also done some more in zb, however I don't think I'm done yet with that. Anyway, here's where I'm at so far.

04 April 2006, 01:06 PM
Nice texturing, Burpy. I was about to comment that the model looked a little too smooth, but the texturing makes it look totally different. Good work.:thumbsup:

04 April 2006, 02:28 PM
nice texture michael but i think that the specular is set to high but maybe thats just me :)

04 April 2006, 04:35 PM
Hoju - Thanks! I will continue making details, maybe after a composition test soon so I don't go nuts on unseen areas.:) I haven't fit everything back to the concept yet...

rjsmal - Yes, I agree. I will continue tweaking the shader until the end! Thanks for the reply.

04 April 2006, 11:20 PM
Excellent work Michael, the last render sort of reminds me of a toy dragon I had when I was a kid. Awesome! :bounce: I really like the way that you've sculpted the face, it has a really sympathetic look to it.

Matt :)

04 April 2006, 11:52 PM
Very good job! You may want to play around with red highlights to give the colors a little more of a push.

04 April 2006, 08:15 AM
Cool looking mother dragon,l like the texture work.

04 April 2006, 08:54 AM
Wow, really good job on the texture. :thumbsup:


04 April 2006, 02:46 PM
mmbenya - Thanks. I was trying to make its head more streamlined and intelligent looking...sympathetic is good too though.:) I never had a toy dragon...:sad:

Womball - Yes I will definitely vary the colours. Thanks for the crit!

SONIC-X - Thanks!

Russel-Nash - Thanks.:)

04 April 2006, 02:53 PM (

Hi all! I'm still in the process of rigging the mother, and have not done any more texture/detail work unfortunately yet...

But I have put together this test! And I'm getting confused with this, so these are my problems.

1) I'm having trouble posing the mother as a frame wrap-around like my initial concept.

2) What can I do to make the lighting better?

Any suggestions would be great!

04 April 2006, 03:02 PM
the texture looks way better now nice pose keep up the great work michael.

04 April 2006, 03:29 PM
Wow, I love this lighting, esp. on the eggs and rocks, awsome!
Way to go!!!

04 April 2006, 03:44 PM
Hey Michael, really like this render -- especially the lighting on your baby dragon's's egg pops out a bit from the surface beneath it, but I'm sure you're working on it. Also like the way the mother dragon's foot hangs beneath her mouth -- much more natural feel to your image than a staged artificial pose which would attempt to show each of her limbs perfectly, etc.

Good luck!

Oh -- just looked through the image a second time...really really like the sunset/rise with a flock of flying creatures in front of it. Beautiful.

04 April 2006, 03:54 PM
Wohooo, dragon man, already testing composition?! Nice progressing here :applause: How was easter stuff?
Your mother frame looks to be hard catchable. With this neck size it will be extra journey. What about to use wings or tail in order to frame your scene? Lighting looks nice, but makes your creatures hard to read (details and all). Some mood drama like front/side light should be good. Also, cover the sun with your fingers... how it looks now?
Keep up great work :buttrock:

04 April 2006, 06:39 PM
Very nice modelling, and modelling :bowdown: Your scene is also working out fine, but it would be nice if we would see the baby dragons eyes a bit more, and it looks like something is wrong on the back legs of the dragon, it might be the specular map.

04 April 2006, 09:37 PM
mmbenya - Thanks. I was trying to make its head more streamlined and intelligent looking...sympathetic is good too though.:) I never had a toy dragon...:sad:

Hey Michael, you can consider yourself lucky, it had a tendency to eat other action figures. ;) They must have extracted their revenge though since it ended up MIA. :shrug: Your scene really coming along great! :applause: I like the lighting that you've placed on the mother and the new born/hatched dragon. It really does a good job showing them off.

Matt :)

04 April 2006, 03:58 AM
rjsmal - Thanks...I want to change the pose to show wings and a more in-flight motion.

varma - Thanks.:)

oceanbluesky - Thanks for the comments! Yep, still positioning everything in the image so I will adjust the eggs and things like that. Still working out the pose, I did want to show the wings/limbs more however. I might leave it there if it looks more natural, though.:) Thanks.

Oweron - Well, I still need to do lots more, but testing the comp is fun.:) Easter? I didn't really do anything for Easter...

Yeah, the neck means I can't push the head around extremely.:scream: I'm going to try to bring the wings and tail in. There are a couple of lights front/side, although I'm worried about overdoing it, since usually sunrises produce quite a lot of black in the stuff facing the camera, and don't want to make it obviously unrealistic. When I cover the Sun, the objects don't work together as much as I would like...I'll see what I can change.

Deje - Thanks! I will try to make the baby dragon's eyes shine as well, haven't finished those eyes yet! Yes, I need to keep texturing and shadering...looks very plastic atm. Low iteration render also makes the muscles from the displace not come out well.

mmbenya - Hey Michael, you can consider yourself lucky, it had a tendency to eat other action figures.
That makes it even better!!:)

Thanks for the reply, still need to work on lighting...

04 April 2006, 03:20 PM
I think it would improve the composition if you were able to pose the mother dragon like you did in your concept sketch. It would frame the picture nicely and you could then play around with putting her in silhouette. I would also have some lights shining in their eyes to make them focal points. I hope you don’t mind the criticisms and I hope it works out.;)

04 April 2006, 08:55 PM
very nice so far .

take attention on the dragon mather pose.
keep it up and good luck :thumbsup:

04 April 2006, 10:24 PM
I like your work, but as far as lighting goes, I'm still a newb myself so I couldn't help you much with that.
There's only one thing on my mind concerning your render - I would like to see more of the dragon flying overhead. Maybe if the render was taller than it is wide, you could show more of the dragon and his wings. Other than that it looks really good.

04 April 2006, 12:24 AM
I really like your first concept if were you I would take the model and just pose it so is is like your concept and model it for the shot. You are going to waste to much time riggging that monster and fighting the camera, just model it for the camera.

05 May 2006, 07:37 PM
Hey Burpy!

Sorry for my long time away- work took over!

Its really getting there man! - I do think i prefer the original pose as well -but i do like the sense of motion youve got going with the mother swooping in. Maybe you could add a bit of motion blur to accentuate the sudden movement? Good luck man!

05 May 2006, 10:12 PM
Looking great, i like the composition and overall mood, Keep it up!

05 May 2006, 12:48 PM
Hoju - Yeah, I'm a little disappointed about the posing of the mother. Couldn't get that framing right. I probably should've made a clearer sketch for myself. Thanks for the comments. Yep, I'll try to get those eyes to come out and bring some life!:)

drummer - Thanks a lot! I will try to get the mother better-looking.

-WOODY- - Thanks, that's a good idea! Although sometimes I think that might make it a little tall looking, and perhaps show the clouds again near the top, which I don't want. I'll test it out though! Thanks for the feedback.:)

bkeiser3d - Good point! But I'm not really sure if I could work that way. To keep all the proportions right and things like that this way probably helps me. Although I'll keep in mind what you're saying (eg. the landscape barely comes into the camera view in the foreground). Thanks for the comment.:thumbsup:

Selina42 - Don't worry, I know how busy stuff can get. And - I haven't commented on your mice in a while either. I'll check it out soon!:)

Thanks for the comments. I'll add some motion blur as its swooping as well, good idea! I think I'm going to keep it flying though. I should have paid more attention to the neck size before getting to such a late stage in the model! Thought it'd work but...yeah. Thanks for the comments.

Climax - Thanks man.:)

05 May 2006, 01:16 PM (

>>DETAIL<< (


As dawn breaks over the windswept peaks, sunlight glimmers upon the lords of the sky as they abandon their roost. But today, one does not fly with the herd. Circling above, she looks down upon her nest with tenderness, yet with great expectations. As a head no larger than her own claw emerges from the hardened shell and spies the clan taking flight, she knows that for this young one, the journey has just begun.

Nothing quite like a cheesy story to finish it off.:)


- 1676353751 total ray casts
- 1003008 polygons
- 701mb of hard disk space
- 120 forum posts
- 66 objects
- 17 materials
- 16hrs final render
- 12 pages of great feedback (thanks to you guys:))
- 10 total lights
- 5 2048x2048 maps on the mother (i think? and yeah i didn't really use that res)
- 4 1024x1024 maps on the baby.
- 3 eggs
- 2 wings/dragon (man im running out of ideas)
- 1 new computer

...and who knows how much time in front of the screen?:D

Created with 3DSMax 8, Zbrush, Brazil.


Well, unfortunately I haven't really being around towards the end of this comp. I should have commented more on everyone's threads. Well, I adjusted a few things, which were:

- Painted the final background and clouds.
- Adjusted eyes and added eyelight.
- Higher quality render.
- Some midground dragons, hopefully its subtle enough.
- A proper cloud of dragons in the back.
- Pose of dragon adjusted (closed mouth more to look less aggressive, head angle changed, and wings introduced.
- Motion blur added
- Adjusted eggs slightly.

I didn't post much wip towards the end of this comp, sorry, could have been better with all of your feedback, but I have to finish up now and get back to some other work.

Thanks everybody who dropped by my entry and gave comments/criticism whatever! It made the competition lots of fun and I greatly enjoyed being in it. Can't wait for the next one!, even though it adds a bit more stress.:D

Good luck everyone who's still going! Time for me to end this stupidly long post no-one will read and get back to some work. Can't wait to see everyone's final picture!

05 May 2006, 01:21 PM (
Details (click to enlarge)

Pictures of the higher res details.

Here ( is also a higher res version of the final image. (I submitted it at 2800x3500)

Thanks once again for a great comp!

05 May 2006, 08:00 PM
Wohooo burpy! You did it "dragon man" !
Congratulations for your finish. It is nice image indeed... I canīt tell you anything other than that īcoz I was around here from your begining. Thanx for your support and good luck with jury :thumbsup: Good job! See ya next time...

05 May 2006, 10:57 PM
wow! I wish I'd followed this thread from the start. It's a fantastic image. Congtatulations and good luck

05 May 2006, 06:28 AM
Congratulations on finishing, burpy:buttrock:. The lighting and composition worked out quite nicely in the end.:applause:

05 May 2006, 08:41 AM
Hi there Burpy !!

Long time I didn't drop here , I missed a lot of things ... but The final is really really great !
One thing to crit from there tho , that's the strong blur on the mother , that's pretty sad considering the great work you did with ZB .... Anyway , Really beautiful scene in any case ...

Big congratulations , and best of luck ...

cheers ,


05 May 2006, 04:12 PM
Wow, this came out beautifully! Really really nice. :thumbsup: That baby dragon is so cute, but momma is awesome. Congratulations! :applause:

05 May 2006, 08:49 PM
Hey Great job on finishing your image, the colors and the modeling are excellent.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: I do feel you could have done more in the foreground though.. Good Luck.

05 May 2006, 09:04 PM
Good job burpy!. The rim lighting around the mouth of the dragon is gorgeous and the baby in the shell makes a great image all by itself. You deserve a big congrats!

Good luck!

05 May 2006, 08:07 AM
Congrats for finishing such a nice pic. :thumbsup:

Good luck with the voting.


05 May 2006, 06:09 PM
Hey Burpy!

Great final image! You really opened it up with the colours and gave it a lot of energy! I especially like your vigourous cloudwork! I think youve done really well with a very difficult subject matter! Good luck!

05 May 2006, 07:47 PM
Wow! the deatils in this as well as the overall realisation of the composition is gorgeous! COngrats on a stunning piece and good luck with the judging

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