View Full Version : Lighting Challenge #2 WIP


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jeremybirn
02-03-2006, 01:13 PM
Edit: This thread is archived. Read these scripts to get an idea of the moods to create in this room. If you scroll down to Challenge #2 in the downloads page, you'll see that you can still download this scene for your own tests, and that a gallery of top entries is available on-line.

The idea here is to render the scene as you interpret the mood, feeling, time of day, and genre of the script fragments below.

Here are the four script fragments that each introduce a kitchen scene:

SCRIPT #1:
MEG glides through the house, precisely following Hanks
directions to the washroom. She passes through A WELL-APPOINTED
KITCHEN. MEG pauses to glance at A BOTTLE OF VINTAGE MERLOT
sitting unopened on the table. She smiles in anticipation and
continues through the moonlit expanse.

SCRIPT #2:
NICK staggers into THE KITCHEN, squinting to shield his
eyes from the morning sun.

NICK
(VO)
THE ONLY REAL CURE FOR A HANG-OVER IS ANOTHER BOTTLE
OF BOOZE. THE TRICK IS TO PASS OUT AGAIN BEFORE YOU
PUKE IT UP.

SCRIPT #3:
At the top of the stairs, BUCK stabilizes himself against
a doorframe and scans his surroundings. He is in a KITCHEN -
LATE TWENTIETH CENTURY - and mercifully free of Centaurs.
He sees A WINDOW. Escape! BUCK crouches, ready to dive
through the glass for another trans-dimensional leap.

SCRIPT #4:
THE BABYSITTER pads barefoot into THE SMITH FAMILY
KITCHEN. Bouncing in time to the music on HER HEADPHONES,
she does not notice the SOUND OF FOOTSTEPS. THE BABYSITTER
becomes absorbed in poking through the familys cabinets,
blithely unaware that imminent doom is approaching.

It all starts with this little scene:
http://www.3drender.com/challenges/FS_Kitchen.jpg

DOWNLOAD HERE - http://www.3drender.com/challenges/ - AND START LIGHTING!
MIRRORS (EDITED BY JOJO)
3DS (http://forumleaders.s3.amazonaws.com/challenges/lighting/02-FS_Kitchen.zip)
MB (http://forumleaders.s3.amazonaws.com/challenges/lighting/02-FS_Kitchen_MB.rar)
OBJ (http://forumleaders.s3.amazonaws.com/challenges/lighting/02-FS_Kitchen_MB.rar)


-jeremy

Matadŏr
02-03-2006, 02:53 PM
This should be great!!! :thumbsup: Very nice Jeremy.
I will make a try on this.

Gentleman, please start your renderengines :)

greets

jorust
02-03-2006, 03:08 PM
Thanks Jeremy!

Im in... :bounce:

Ravix
02-03-2006, 04:07 PM
damn this is so addictive IM IN

jeremybirn
02-03-2006, 10:09 PM
I wanted these challenges to come from scenes that we have copyright clearance to perminantly archive here, so I built our kitchen scene from scratch. The one I built is also fairly small and simple, so it'll help people test render things quickly.

It's interesting to note that another thread has been using a kitchen scene for a rendering contest - to compare rendering software:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=275658&page=1&pp=15 (http://showthread.php?t=275658&page=1&pp=15)

edit: I considered bending the "everyone lights the same scene" rule to avoid redundancy, but if people like using a new, simpler scene, we should let the rules stand.

It is good for everyone to start on the same page, and if there are any problems supporting different file formats, I hope some "file format volunteers" can make the scene available in translation to whichever program needs it.

-jeremy

jorust
02-03-2006, 10:39 PM
Speaking for my self, I'm a bit "bored" by that kitchen scene. I was a bit active in that thread, and I also used that scene and a kitchen as a base for a tutorial I did on Lightning. http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8388

It's also a render-heavy scene.

We should stick to your scene. It's the light and the mood that count for this challenge. Not the number of plates in the table.

jeremybirn
02-03-2006, 10:46 PM
OK, our rules remain the same: use the scene from the top link.

-jeremy

yohann
02-03-2006, 11:26 PM
That's really hard and great! Thanks very much Jeremy!

And have too a homage for the first challenge over kitchen sink.:thumbsup:

AdamT
02-04-2006, 12:23 AM
This looks like fun--great idea. Are we free to change the camera angle/position, or is that locked off?

jeremybirn
02-04-2006, 12:50 AM
This looks like fun--great idea. Are we free to change the camera angle/position, or is that locked off?

The obj format does not include camera information, so most people will need to aim the camera themselves. Try to keep it as shown above, facing the wine bottle and window in all of them, so it looks like the same scene being covered.

The same goes with the models: try not to change them too much. If you just increase subdivision on something that needs smoothing or add a pane of glass to the window because you need a reflection, simple rendering-related things like that might be necessary to make a quality image. But the whole point of this is to show how much can be done through lighting.

-jeremy

digital_me
02-04-2006, 01:26 AM
I can't seem to open the .obj in Blender - something about a missing .mtl file.
Here's the error:
Importing OBJ file: "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\FS_Kitchen.obj"
file length: 301877
found 41 smoothing groups
unable to open referenced material file: "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\FS_Kitchen.mtl"

jeremybirn
02-04-2006, 02:39 AM
I can't seem to open the .obj in Blender - something about a missing .mtl file.
Here's the error:
Importing OBJ file: "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\FS_Kitchen.obj"
file length: 301877
found 41 smoothing groups
unable to open referenced material file: "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\FS_Kitchen.mtl"

Edit: I have uploaded a mtl file you can download here:
http://www.3drender.com/challenges/FS_Kitchen.mtl

Otherwise, is there someone else who knows Blender that can help? (File swapping is definately appreciated if someone has the software to do a useful conversion and share it...)

-jeremy

sjmcc
02-04-2006, 06:46 AM
Very cool. Thanks Jeremy. I will try and give this a shot, it should be a great learning experience.

royterrrr
02-04-2006, 08:11 AM
helle , i am using maya 6 and when i try to import the fil, i get the message:


// Error: //

pv_performAction "C:/Documents and Settings/ROY/Desktop/Kitchen.obj" "Best Guess";

file -import -type "OBJ" -namespace "Kitchen" -options "mo=1" -pr "C:/Documents and Settings/ROY/Desktop/Kitchen.obj";

// Error: line 1: Your OBJ file contains a line which is too long to be parsed. Please edit your obj file. //

// Error: Error reading file. //

how can i fix that (i have all my plugins loaded)?


is there a deadline for the challange?

sjmcc
02-04-2006, 08:39 AM
I downloaded the file and did some renaming and grouping of objects plus a little clean-up in Cinema4d. I don't know the best place to post this so I will just put it here. You can get the C4d version here:


http://www.allcinema4me.com/cinema/files/kitchen.rar

jeremybirn
02-04-2006, 10:12 AM
helle , i am using maya 6 and when i try to import the fil, i get the message:


// Error: //

pv_performAction "C:/Documents and Settings/ROY/Desktop/Kitchen.obj" "Best Guess";

file -import -type "OBJ" -namespace "Kitchen" -options "mo=1" -pr "C:/Documents and Settings/ROY/Desktop/Kitchen.obj";

// Error: line 1: Your OBJ file contains a line which is too long to be parsed. Please edit your obj file. //

// Error: Error reading file. //
how can i fix that (i have all my plugins loaded)?


is there a deadline for the challange?

Try downloading this MA file instead, it was written out of maya 7 but has the "requires" line removed in a text editor - hopefully it should load fine and only give you a warning about not knowing the maya version:
http://www.3drender.com/challenges/FS_Kitchen_MA.rar

There's no real deadline, but we'll start another challenge next month - post while everyone else is doing it and it's a lot more fun and you get more feedback.

-jeremy

digital_me
02-04-2006, 03:56 PM
Thanks for the mtl file, but I'm still getting one error:
ValueError: object "pPlane1" not found

royterrrr
02-04-2006, 06:10 PM
hello jeremy i tried the last version.

i am not geting any error messages but i get :

// Result: 0 //

and then nothing is being imported to the scene

(i am not familiar withe rar format)

what can i do? is it possible to post a mb or an obj format.

thanks

jorust
02-04-2006, 06:50 PM
royterr : .rar is a zip file.
Use winRAR or stuffit to extract the object/scene. The obj. is inside the .rar file.

elgordo
02-04-2006, 08:52 PM
Hi you all!!!
I've converted succesfully the file to blender format!! If anyone finds it usefull and knows whre i can upload i to, i will do it as soon as possible.
By other means, i found the height of the doors quite small, or the furniture inside the kitchen too big!!! If that door is 2.10 meters tall, the table must be 1.50 meters ... are we allowed to tweak this, in order to make the model look more real?
Thank you.

dbates
02-04-2006, 09:18 PM
Thanks elgordo! I could definitely use it, though I'm not sure where you could get hosting space.

digital_me
02-04-2006, 09:33 PM
Hi you all!!!
I've converted succesfully the file to blender format!! If anyone finds it usefull and knows whre i can upload i to, i will do it as soon as possible.
Email it to me, and I'll host it. digitalme2{at}gmail{dot}com

royterrrr
02-05-2006, 02:31 AM
polymess: thanks for the tip.

So we will have to build our own shaders?
i don't have any in my scene.

jeremybirn
02-05-2006, 02:46 AM
Hi you all!!!
I've converted succesfully the file to blender format!! If anyone finds it usefull and knows whre i can upload i to, i will do it as soon as possible.
By other means, i found the height of the doors quite small, or the furniture inside the kitchen too big!!! If that door is 2.10 meters tall, the table must be 1.50 meters ... are we allowed to tweak this, in order to make the model look more real?
Thank you.

Thanks for the conversion. I hope this wasn't any harder than getting the last challenge into blender, it was supposed to be the same .obj export of polygons.

You can tweak things a little, you may have to for some reasons, just as long as you stay focused on the main idea that it's only lighting and rendering style that sets the tone for the different scripts.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-05-2006, 02:50 AM
So we will have to build our own shaders?
i don't have any in my scene.

Yes, each person needs to set-up their scene assigning reasonable shaders. It doesn't have to be fancy. There's no format for moving shaders between all programs, so even if someone had done it for you that probably wouldn't port to most people's software.

-jeremy

elgordo
02-05-2006, 07:11 PM
Ok. So I will email you, digital_me the .blend file. I will tweak a little my own file in order to make the scale fit in each piece ... if someone finds this usefull i could also send this file.
Thank you.

digital_me
02-05-2006, 08:24 PM
Ok. So I will email you, digital_me the .blend file. I will tweak a little my own file in order to make the scale fit in each piece ... if someone finds this usefull i could also send this file.
Thank you.
I will host the file as soon as I get it.

elgordo
02-06-2006, 08:16 AM
Ok, digital_me, Ive just sent you the .blend file. Thank you very much for taking the time (and space) to host it.

Two issues about the file. The mesh's been directly imported into a new blender scene. As I've seen working with my scene, .obj conversion may have some minor problems in blender,and many vertexes are duplied. To increase render times, it's better to remove double vertexes, going object by object.
Thank you jeremy for this interesting challenges!
Thank you all.

digital_me
02-06-2006, 11:21 PM
kitchen.blend (http://gallery.mudpuddle.co.nz/albums/digitalme/Kitchen_001.blend)
I had to clean up the window mesh to make it usable, this scene now has a camera and the cleaned window mesh, the pane has a transparent (alpha) material, and the option to display alpha as transperent in the viewport is turned on.

SheepFactory
02-07-2006, 03:30 AM
Great topic Jeremy!

I'll try to enter this one.

Synthesizer
02-07-2006, 08:12 PM
Hey,
This sounds fun, I'm going to try my hand at it. Good luck everyone :cool:

bradw
02-08-2006, 05:28 PM
Great challenge!.. :arteest:
I really fancy a crack at this..

Quick question Jeremy:
If we are includng custom shaders, is it not possible that the lighting might be adversely affected/altered by people using/abusing file textures within shaders?

Seeing as it is a hardcore lighting challenge; how about setting a format for shaders so that we can all compare results effectively?
Or is it just a big free for all? :D

Personally, I'd be more interested in working with no file textures, and just using surface properties for the surfaces?

Are you judging the lighting or the quality of the shaders in the scene (and assoc' file textures?)

Thanks,
Brad.

jeremybirn
02-08-2006, 07:03 PM
Hi Brad -

Yes, setting up your shaders and maps before you do much work with the lighting is a good idea, otherwise you will need to tweak the lighting again after you see it with the final shaders/textures.

I don't fully understand your idea about "setting a format for shaders" - which program would that be for?

You're welcomed to work with just surface properties, procedural textures, go black and white, whatever.

Nobody here cares much about which graphic design tools you use to produce your scene, I'm sure the technical stuff varies a lot between users and their set-ups. If you have some great ideas about how shaders should work or something, it would be interesting if you posted a breakdown of how you did your scene and what shaders you used.

I'm not judging a contest. I try to give a lot of people feedback, and you're welcomed to do that as well. I look forward to seeing your images.

-jeremy

bradw
02-08-2006, 07:15 PM
Hiya.
Thanks for the rapid reply.

What I meant about a format, was to say that you may define it like this:
For example only:
Colour/diffuse channels only
No bump/displacements
No IBL

Not saying that the above should be the format, it just makes for easier comparison if we are all on the same page ;)
It makes it much harder if we are comparing varying interpretations of the surfaces within the scene..


I really like the idea of lighting based upon a vague script.
Something new for a games monkey like myself ;)


Btw, I hope you get a sensible cut from your lighting book royalties.. as I just added to them via amazon UK :D

Brad.

JeffPatton
02-08-2006, 07:18 PM
I ran into some problems with the .obj import into 3dsmax (beyond the occasional flipped normal)...the import really borked the window for some reason. Anyway, I made a new window (same size, etc...hope thats ok) and fixed the other smaller import problems.

Here's the 3dsmax (7.5) file if other Max users ran into the same import problems:
www.jeffpatton.net/temp/kitchen.zip

royterrrr
02-09-2006, 01:13 AM
hello guys,

i am still working on shading and some basic lighting, but it is getting slower and slower..
( iam using GI,FG and Caustics....area light...).

i already used render passes to render shadows seperatly.

is it possible to render this different effecrs(caustics, gi....)seperatly?

does anybody now a link for compositing the scene vis render passes or somethinh like that.

jeremybirn
02-09-2006, 02:20 AM
hello guys,

i am still working on shading and some basic lighting, but it is getting slower and slower..
( iam using GI,FG and Caustics....area light...).

i already used render passes to render shadows seperatly.

is it possible to render this different effecrs(caustics, gi....)seperatly?

does anybody now a link for compositing the scene vis render passes or somethinh like that.

Wow, are you sure you need all that stuff? Most CG in feature films isn made without all that stuff, but still people manage day scenes, night scenes, scary scenes, etc. Maybe for whichever script you're working on you could post what you're doing and discuss what requires all the expensive effects.

Maya 7 has a global illumination pass that splits the GI (including FG and caustics) into a separate file. If your software doesn't have an option like that, you can render twice, once with GI and once without it, and a difference operation will isolate the GI pass for you from that.

-jeremy

aatur
02-09-2006, 02:26 AM
Thanks Jeff for the max version of the scene.....i was facing the same problem :applause:



All the best to everyone :thumbsup:

MooseDog
02-09-2006, 04:44 PM
Submitting for script number 1: romantic moonlit evening.

Used 4 lights for the scene: hard moonlight through the sink window, big soft moonlight through the same window for bleeding, same thing through the big door on the left, and light splashing in from the livingroom behind the camera. The livingroom is reflected in the sink window. All the lights are area lights with a falloff/decay applied, with different sizes though for different shadow hardness.

Hopefully getting across the hanky-panky going on in the other room while the kitchen is dark after the meal, and the bottle is about to be retreived to add to the fun :).

c&c appreciated for a w.i.p. thx!



http://www.mdogstudios.com/private/FS_Kitchen_002_submission.png

CeDeEl
02-09-2006, 05:53 PM
Script #2.

I'm using 3Ds max 7 with default renderer.
I did have some prolem/dificulties to find out about the mood and gender on the 2nd script.
umm... what does "HANG-OVER" and "Bottle of booze" means? :curious:
sorry, my english wasnt that good.:hmm:
-ChristianDL-

royterrrr
02-09-2006, 05:58 PM
"you can render twice, once with GI and once without it, and a difference operation will isolate the GI pass for you from that."

do you mean i should render Gi and FG seperatly? and then overlay them?

i am using maya6.

thanks

Synthesizer
02-09-2006, 06:19 PM
I believe what Jeremy means is to make one pass with everything (ie: GI+FG if you want) and then one with only direct lighting (no GI or FG). Then you can overlay them in Photoshop or whatever with a difference blend mode.

digital_me
02-09-2006, 11:29 PM
Hangover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangover)
"bottle of booze" referrs to a bottle of alchohol. Booze is American slang for alcohol.

Synthesizer
02-10-2006, 12:35 AM
Hi,
Here is my try at script #1. I've still got to make shaders for everything and tweak the ones I have, but I'm pretty happy with it so far. I think I'll add a bit of rim lighting to the bottle and some caustics to help it stand out. I'm using Maya with Mental Ray, in case you wanted to know :)

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5625/kitchen1a6be.th.jpg (http://img51.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kitchen1a6be.jpg)

Synthesizer
02-10-2006, 12:43 AM
Now that you know what "hangover" and "a bottle of booze" mean, maybe you could make the lighting a bit more harsh :D It looks good, but too friendly and inviting right now.

jeremybirn
02-10-2006, 01:03 AM
Good start.

The light coming from near the window doesn't look like moonlight yet. The shadows all spread out as if it were a light coming from just a few feet outside the window.

That left side hall looks as if it needs bounce light. It's all black next to where the light is coming from.

Maybe putting something outside the window like a sky or background of some kind would be good, or adding glass and putting a gleam to less us know there is a window there, or else putting more rim light on the windowframe, just so we can tell where the light is supposed to be coming from.

The reflections on the trash can look a little too much, especially when nothing else in the scene looks at all shiny.

The bottle clearly looks empty now, maybe put something in it or make it less transparent?

-jeremy

royterrrr
02-10-2006, 01:08 AM
thanks for the help.

i will try it.

ToddD
02-10-2006, 02:46 AM
I chose script 2. I thought some overexposure along with that "just woke up" blur would convey the feeling of a not quite recovered Nick. Also opted for a dark kitchen so I could attempt to use the light to guide the viewer toward the bottle. All effects except for the double vision are straight from Mental Ray(GI only no FG yet)Glare camera effect in mRay for the overexposure. Used PS to create the ghosted blurry bits.

Todd

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tbonz/hungover-01.jpg

Synthesizer
02-10-2006, 03:36 AM
Heh, it is certainly good for the point of view of someone hungover. I'll pass on something that Jeremy commented on mine, the bottle shouldn't be empty ;) Although I just hadn't gotten around to it yet, so maybe you haven't either. Where is this glare effect? I haven't heard about it before, or are you using XSI or something?

jeremybirn
02-10-2006, 04:15 AM
"Submitting for script number 1: romantic moonlit evening."

You've certainly got a nice "kitchen at night" look going. I don't know about the "moonlit" or "romantic" thing, this almost seems more like a good starting point for script #4 where we are in the kitchen but worried if a killer might be sneaking up behind us. The light coming in from behind us certainly calls our attention to think about how much open space there is around our back.

The very low camera angle to the floor makes the room look huge, which it should, but doesn't seem like a romantic comedy type camera angle, unless the actress were about to walk in the foreground and they needed a shot of her butt.

I seriously think you could play-up the scary shadows on the walls a bit more and call it an entry for script #4. For #1 the moonlight should be inviting, choose either blue or yellow but go somewhere with it color-wise, and things should glisten and sparkle instead of being drab and gray and grainy.

-jeremy

ToddD
02-10-2006, 04:26 AM
Thanks man, yeah I need to fill that bottle good point!

I'm using 3DS Max. Glare is a camera shader. I add it to the camera in the render dialogue, then drag an instance to the material editor where I can then adjust the amount of glare etc.

sjmcc
02-10-2006, 05:52 AM
The first thing I noticed was a lack of shadows around the base of the chairs and table where they sit on the floor. This leaves everything looking like it's sort of floating.

as07
02-10-2006, 08:06 AM
hi all this is my first try, still many things to fix tho, and still need to render in higher setting and resolution, i will send the update version of this kitchen asap, this kitchen using complementary color as warm and cool in one room together kinda like christmas nights^^ style :), anyway hope you like it c&c really welcome :) thanks
rendered in 3dsmax with help of ao (no GI or radiosity, etc)
http://as07.3dk.org/kitchen.JPG

cpan
02-10-2006, 08:41 AM
nice work Andre :thumbsup:
i like the orange/blue christmas style lighting a lot :)
one thing that could be worked on though is the obvious tiling texture on the furniture.

cheers

bradw
02-10-2006, 10:54 AM
If you have Maya7, render layers seem the way to go :)
Comp it together in PS/etc afterwards for ultimate tweakability :thumbsup:

yohann
02-10-2006, 12:42 PM
Beautiful job! Have a cartoon look! :applause:

I like the mix of color temperature.

But have much light... I think a litle bit of drakness on the up area wall will be cool and less multiplier in the hot light the moonshine will appear more. :)

CeDeEl
02-10-2006, 02:39 PM
this was the first script fragment right?
the light was awesome! i like it! :bounce:
still something need to be fixed, especially the texture on the upper right cabinet. hope u got my point :)
~duh! output bhs inggrisku amburadul! ~ :curious:

jeremybirn
02-10-2006, 03:06 PM
Looks great!

Maybe the warm light on the left side and the light on the right wall could both be brought down. I know you're thinking that indoor lights should be much brighter than the moonlight, but I don't think romantic films follow those laws of physics.

Background is perfect for a "Sleepless in Seattle" type thing.

Edit: Maybe too many things are reflective, especially the paper towels and the trash look very reflective.

-jeremy

CeDeEl
02-10-2006, 03:15 PM
@digital_me, thankyou very-very-very much!
@Synthesizer, my first thaught was... it's gonna be some funny/happy/peacefull/cheerfull scene... or something like that. :D
sjmcc, i'll fix that ASAP.

thanks for all the comment!
-chris-

Sphere♥
02-10-2006, 04:23 PM
Decided to have a go at script #1 this morning. Meg's point of view as she first sees the kitchen from the hallway. Sorry, basic texturing only on a few objects, I'm lazy. Tried primarily lighting with moonlight with a few indoor light fills but probably the scene's too dark. Makes me realize how much light filling there is in the movies, what's missing, a big blue gel? Thanks for the fun Jeremy, you're trying to show us how tough your job is, right? :D

JeffPatton
02-10-2006, 04:44 PM
Neat, I like the confusing drunken blur... :) To me it seems a bit overpowering though. But it adds chaos to the scene...and I wonder if it would help to add more chaos by moving things around a bit (is that allowed?) For example, turn the bottle on it's side on the table. fill it halfway and pour some on the floor? Maybe knock a chair over (like someone fell out of it when he passed out). Knock some of the fruit off the dish, etc..

Again, I'm not sure if that's allowed or not or if it would help the scene. I just figure if someone is drunk...the kitchen wouldn't be that tidy.



neeg :p

ToddD
02-10-2006, 05:09 PM
Thanks Jeff!

I was thinking of some water stains on the table like someone had made a sloppy pour and the liquid dried on the table(break the refelctions.) Chair knocked over is a good idea, allowed? Appreciate the feedback!


Todd



Sir neeg of anywhere:bounce:

JeffPatton
02-10-2006, 05:47 PM
You know what, maybe you should just leave everything in place. Since the focus in on the actual lighting and conveying a specific feeling through that lighting...then I'm thinking that moving objects around would actually be considered conveying a story with the scene itself (and not specific to lighting)

I'm sure you planned on getting clarification on that before doing it anyway...but just thought I'd mention it now that I thought about it further.

as07
02-10-2006, 05:50 PM
hi all thanks for the comment :D, yeah i know so many things to fix still, the comment really helpful i will fix it if i have time for sure :) thanks

jeremybirn
02-10-2006, 06:45 PM
The two biggest centers of attention (other than the window) seem to be the chair and the reflection on the table of the bright circle on the bottom of the upper cabinet. I think the chair could be toned down, the bright circle eliminated altogether, adn that you should find some way to make the bottle a center of attention.

Lining up the bottle with the edge of the window creates a false tangency that sortof camoflauges it - give it its own place in your composition before you start into lighting it.

-jeremy

yohann
02-10-2006, 10:51 PM
My entry, based on script 2. If i have time i want to do the other scripts.

I used Maya 7 with Mentalray (GI/FG) and Photshop for maps, DOF effect, window glow and city background.

http://www.yohann.com.br/3D/lc/kitchen_scr2_lowres.jpg


High resolution click here (http://www.yohann.com.br/3D/lc/kitchen_scr2_highres.jpg).

as07
02-11-2006, 01:32 AM
hi all another update this time i add warm, cool and updated-complementary color of the previous scene, the lighting have high contrast to produce dramatic and moody effects hope you like it :)

warm
http://as07.3dk.org/images/kitchen/kitchen%20warm%20800.JPG
cool:
http://as07.3dk.org/images/kitchen/kitchen%20cool%20800.JPG
updated-complementary color:
http://as07.3dk.org/images/kitchen/kitchen%20complementary%20800.JPG

ToddD
02-12-2006, 01:23 AM
Thanks for the feedback Jeremy :)

Taking into account what you have posted I adjusted the composition and removed the "hot" areas. I also added a caustic below the bottle to try to direct attention to it. Also attempting to create a stronger silhouette of the bottle against the window.

Oh stilll have to fill the bottle hehe


Thanks!


Todd

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tbonz/vers2-01.jpg

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Dan Wade
02-12-2006, 03:54 AM
Script No 1

This is my first go. Just put a few basic blins on objects for placeholders.
I think maybe some aditional lighting might be needed from the left room, as if the tv or lights were left on through the night. Crits and comments very welcome.

Dan W.

royterrrr
02-12-2006, 06:27 AM
i really like the overall mood.

the light blue highlights are very expressive.

jeremybirn
02-12-2006, 12:56 PM
Nice picture. It doesn't really look like the perspective of a drunk to me, and the sun doesn't seem to be glaring or hurting his eyes, but its a nice picture.

Be careful of tangencies (how things line up with eachother in your composition) like having the window sit exactly on the top of the bottle. Right now the cork barely dents the lower window frame. It would be a stronger composition if you had the bottle come above that lower window frame, or even if you had the top of the bottle lower so the cork went over the sink - anything but perfect alignment like that.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-12-2006, 01:10 PM
It looks like you could simplify the color scheme. Right now there are those bright orange cushions the command a lot of attention, then different areas looking green, blue, white... maybe just choose a tone or two for moonlight, maybe some highlights, maybe a consistent color for fill in the room, and leave it with just a few colors.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-12-2006, 01:18 PM
Maybe the light on the doorframe could go much more dim and be warmer, then the whole kitchen could be cool but it could get some blue fill and some rims on the edge of the windows and near the windows? Maybe the only warm tone in the kitchen could be a very selective reflection of the warm light from within the house, like maybe a warm highlight on the bottle or window.

-jeremy

Danry
02-12-2006, 01:21 PM
Hi to all. I choose SCRIPT #2.
The drizzled Nick the drunk want to booze up , where is him ?
I use 3dmax and vray to rendrer.

(http://attachment.php?attachmentid=90081&stc=1)

Sphere♥
02-12-2006, 01:23 PM
Thanks for the good pointers!

sjmcc
02-12-2006, 05:52 PM
I like the pic and the frosty texture on the window. The texturing in the room seems a little bit too busy though. It makes it difficult to really focus on anything in the scene. The focal point for the script is the bottle so maybe try to do something to make it draw your eye towards it.

jeremybirn
02-13-2006, 01:01 AM
I agree with all the comments above. If there's anything else I can think to mention, it's to check on the smoothing groups for the top of the trash container, it looks as if there's an edge that should be hard that is getting smoothed over making the shading look distorted there. Really focus on the guy feeling drunk and wanting to drink until he passes out or vomits though, that will change everything.

-jeremy

royterrrr
02-13-2006, 01:36 AM
i am rendering with GI an FG.
when rendering i get the warning message over and over again in the output window:

warn : maya_state(): Called on an unexpected ray.

all my objects have shaders assigned to them, belonging to shading groups.
there is no shading groups with no shaders attached to them.
any idea???

Dan Wade
02-13-2006, 03:42 AM
Update. Is this working better now?

Sciortino
02-13-2006, 10:00 AM
Jeremy thanks for doing this--this is terrific.
I've done an interpretation of script #1, the romantic moonlit kitchen scene.
For some reason I can't post attachments (maybe because I haven't posted a lot yet?) so my entry is at http://incblots.com. Thanks in advance for everyone's comments.

Maven
02-13-2006, 05:45 PM
I ran into some problems with the .obj import into 3dsmax (beyond the occasional flipped normal)...the import really borked the window for some reason. Anyway, I made a new window (same size, etc...hope thats ok) and fixed the other smaller import problems.

Here's the 3dsmax (7.5) file if other Max users ran into the same import problems:
www.jeffpatton.net/temp/kitchen.zip (http://www.jeffpatton.net/temp/kitchen.zip)

Thanks Jeff...but I seem to be missing the interior wall with that file.

jeremybirn
02-13-2006, 06:29 PM
Welcome, Paul!

Good start. Your link is working, maybe try an IMG tag like this:
http://incblots.com/images/kitchen_01.png

It looks like the raytracing isn't working. Maybe the blue light doesn't have enough shadow rays or trace depth for its shadows to appear in reflections? Look at the left wall all in shadow and its reflection lit up blue... maybe all the raytraced reflections are kindof distracting and could be brought down or turned off.

The scene needs bounce lights. Under the cabinet it looks like there's a light shining down on the counter, but none bouncing up onto the wall in that area. The same is true around the window frame, there's a lot of blue light in parts, but then the upper part of the left side goes very abruptly to black where I'd think that area and maybe the top would be getting some bounce light.

The blue light could go further. Maybe it rims some of the fruit and chair and cork more. Maybe it bounces a little into more places.

It would be great if some of the shadows were softer, especially the shadows from the warm light coming from the left, it seems as if that should have bounced around another room before most of it made it into the kitchen.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-13-2006, 09:52 PM
Looking good!

Maybe some of the light could be in softer gradients. The bright doorframe on the left side could fade to become darker as you approach the floor, and the floor could get a little darker as you approach the doorframe. The shadow on the floor from that doorframe running horizontally, it would be great if that got a lot softer with distance, as if there were a lot of light in that room to the left instead of just a point of direct light.

The window frame itself things could be a little more uniform, the way the center post gets brighter near the bottom doesn't seem motivated, maybe instead extend the rim near the bottom farther up that post?

I don't know about the black bars above and below the shot, unless they are there for a reason?

-jeremy

Opelfruits
02-13-2006, 10:11 PM
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/5816/d1uh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

maxwell rc5 - 15 mins

inspired by toddD with the drunken blurryness

jeremybirn
02-14-2006, 02:31 AM
I agree with sjmcc - even though the volumetric effect with dust in it, the textures, etc. are all nice, the image is somewhat busy and lacking in focus. Especially when a drunk sees a bottle, there should be a sort of tunnel vision leading your eye straight there.

-jeremy

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jeremybirn
02-14-2006, 02:33 AM
So this is supposed to be for script #2? I don't really see the emphasis on the bottle or the squinting into the morning light. Blur is nice, tilting the camera is of course very nice for drunkenness, but without the composition or lighting it doesn't really drive home the point.

-jeremy

elgordo
02-14-2006, 12:43 PM
Hi everybody!
Here goes my entry, based on script #2.
Non textured but for some chrome elements.
Blender Internal Raytracer rendered, and node composited.

yohann
02-14-2006, 03:35 PM
Thanks Jeremy. You're right, i agree all your comments. That's my big problem how light artist: translate the emotions of scripts for the scene light, i stay enchanted with the nice image and forget the drama.:sad:

More one up. For now i will don't light the others scripts while this not be good.

http://www.yohann.com.br/3D/lc/kitchen_scr3_lowres.jpg

MooseDog
02-14-2006, 05:15 PM
Spot on critiques Jeremy. Thx a ton!

I decided to keep on persuing my original intent, as this is a challenge right! LOL (no matter how off-base the first attempt was!)

Kept the original light rig, but changed up settings such as color, intensity, falloff, shadows, etc. Also went for a different camera angle. I feel certain something is missing, but I can't put my finger on it :( in terms of conveying an emotional scene w/out people in it, which I know is accomplished every day)

I have the book Painting With Light by John Alton. Obviously a master and a good teacher in his day. I just have to get my head around translating stuff into a CG environment.

Also generated a depth map for some photoshop fun.

Thx for taking a look.

http://www.mdogstudios.com/private/FS_Kitchen_003.jpg

Sphere♥
02-14-2006, 09:46 PM
I looked up photo references for romantic moonlight dinners. I either got very dark images with the moon, often reflected on water, with black stenciled subjects in the foreground, or candlelight and/or very warm indoor lighting dinner scenes.

So I thought I'd try a hybrid of these for the fun of it, using the moon in the scene and having it reflect on the table as it would on water (with a strong enough bump), plus having a very warm indoor lighting to provide the romantic, warm and fuzzy feeling. Simplified the color scheme on all objects to grey tones (I realized I probably put the orange on the cushions originally looking for warm colors). (blurred reflections on the sink is noisy, sorry.)

Script #1, exact same point of view, Meg's as she sees the kitchen from the hallway the first time.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/2340/s1t21bn.jpg

ToddD
02-14-2006, 09:54 PM
Hmm that moon is pretty distracting IMO.

Maybe a little less intense, and slightly less light inside the room to set the mood a little better? Or moolight along with candlelight might give a romantic feel.

My 2cents FWIW :)

Keep at it!



T.

Hamburger
02-14-2006, 11:37 PM
I think the problem in that scene is that the camera is not focusing on anything. Light that winebottle and focus on that imo.

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JesseNelson
02-14-2006, 11:53 PM
Script #4.

http://s95337746.onlinehome.us/KitchenTest2.jpg


Ignore the shadow problems, I'm not sure what's casuing them :). Rendered in Blender 2.40; one area light, 3 spot lamps and Ambient Occlusion.

-Obiwan

cryo_7
02-15-2006, 02:21 PM
Hi to all, I choose script 2. NICK staggers into THE KITCHEN... "why is this bottle EMPTY??"

The scene is rendered using mental ray with GI ang FG. I ll try and a script 4 version maybe tommorow... Any comments are more than welcome

Sphere♥
02-15-2006, 05:11 PM
Thanks for the good c&c ToddD.

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cryo_7
02-16-2006, 12:51 AM
and this is my -in progress- script#4 version using parti volume and only one spot light...

Synthesizer
02-16-2006, 01:38 AM
Thanks for the tips Jeremy. Here's an update of what I've got so far. I think I might try script #2 as well, it seems that's the more popular one :D

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/3103/kitchen34vn.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kitchen34vn.jpg)

Synthesizer
02-16-2006, 01:53 AM
Hi cryo.

The first one is a good start, but there isn't enough light transfer for my taste (not sure if that's the "technical" term ;)). There is too much ambient light without any bounce from the sun. It's also much too nice and happy for a hungover drunk wanting to get drunk again. Some glare from the window and more contrast would help alot.

For the second image, why is it underwater? ;) The fog might be good if it's more subtle, but right now it's too thick. I'm not sure why the sky is that colour, what's happening there? That bottle of wine looks poisened to me....

Hope this helps a bit.

Dan Wade
02-16-2006, 02:25 AM
Update. The lighting from the left room now has better falloff. Also added some trees outside. The rims for the front window have been worked on a little. I think maybe the entire peice is lacking contrast with the main lightsource outside.

jeremybirn
02-16-2006, 02:29 AM
That's great! With the dead trees and the shadowiness it really could be a great #4 horror/suspense type scene. (Even if you do a #2 and go for the magical moonlight look, save this one as a #4 entry...)

-jeremy

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AlexanderDavidKolakowski
02-16-2006, 04:24 AM
Awesome looking, very realistic floor. I agree aboutmaybe a subtle environment being a good idea to add some more realism to the windows. other than that, I'd say the only other thing that could make it any better would be some fire breathing dragons and car crashes.

as07
02-16-2006, 08:01 AM
hi all nothing special try the kitchen with v-ray, well using gi and everything rendered in v-ray... daylight version
http://as07.3dk.org/kitchengi.jpg

cryo_7
02-16-2006, 09:07 AM
Hi Simon, thanks for your comments. I try to give a warmer look to my first image. As for the second one the fog is thick because its all over the place... Someone left the door open and something really bad is going to happen... :) Here is an update for script 4.

cryo_7
02-16-2006, 09:14 AM
Very nice mood and great lighting. I also like the floor alot. Is it made with bump map or with displacement?

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cryo_7
02-16-2006, 09:16 AM
your daylight version is awesome..! Good work.

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Sciortino
02-16-2006, 09:41 AM
Ok, heres my second try at script #1 (romantic moonlit kitchen). Ive tried to incorporate all the suggestions and Ive learned a ton doing it, I think, but there are some things I still want to try before I go to another script.

Heres what Ive been doing. For now I've been trying to keep the original framing of the shot, kind of pretending that this is part of a larger project that was given to me just to light, and that others have created the composition. So anyway, Im working in Maya and Im using one directional light and 16 spotlights altogether (rendering in mental ray). Heres how they break down:

-livingroom_light (warm light from left)
http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-01t.png (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-01.png)

-moon_light (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-02.png) (blue, directional, coming through the window)
-moon_light_fill_1 (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-03.png) (blue, shining from viewers left)
-moon_light_fill_2 (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-04.png) (blue, located over the far end of the table and shining toward the right, illuminating the garbage can and the right chair)
-moon_light_windowsill_bounce (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-05.png) (blue, just outside the window shining up to illuminate the inside top of the sill)

-cork_rim (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-06.png) (these are all blue except the wine_rim, and all help define the forms of the objects)
-wine_rim (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-07.png)
-chair_rim (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-08.png)
-fruit_rim (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-09.png)


-four cabinet_lights (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-10.png) (a warm-ish white color, shining down onto the counter below the cabinet)
-cabinet_rim (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-14.png) (puts that little rime on the bottom of the doors of the top cabinet)
-three countertop_bounce lights (1 (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-15.png), 2 (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-16.png), and 3 (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-02-17.png))(a different warmish color, closer to the countertop's color, and shining on the right wall, the back wall and the area just below the window)

All but the moon_light_fill lights and the windowsill bounce light have raytraced shadows turned on. The livingroom and countertop_bounce lights all cast nice soft shadows, but it's pretty expensive. So one of the things I want to try is to replace them each with several spots using depthmap shadows. I'm curious to know just what it would take to get really close to the raytraced results.

I was kind of surprised when I counted up all the lights--it seems like a lot, yet each one does have a specific purpose. Any ideas on where I might economize, or even if economizing in this is necessary?

One thing I'm still not satisfied with is the romantic part. I mean, the kitchen looks moonlit, and the color scheme and lights under the cabinet are intended to give the kitchen a sense of being a sophisticated "WELL-APPOINTED KITCHEN". But something about it feels a little sterile, and I can't put my finger on it. Without adding props or characters, and manipulating only the lighting and shaders how can I make the scene say "romance" more than it already might? I guess that's the whole point of the exercise, isn't it--where the art of it all comes into play.

http://incblots.com/images/kitchen_02.1.png

PPGINGRAS
02-16-2006, 05:06 PM
Hi all...

This is my Entry submission.

I choosed Script 3.


This is my very basic composition layout.


Comments are welcome. Maybe way too early for Critics.


There is no shaders, fills or special stuff...Its only the layout.




Cheers.




PPGingras

jeremybirn
02-16-2006, 07:28 PM
Awsome! That's a great start!

Glad to see someone finally taking on #3, as well!

I'll wait for fills and rims and such before I attempt a critique.

In terms of base colors, I wonder if a more sickly green tone (or at least a more steely blue if you're attached to blue) would work instead of that blue fill. But I only say that because we've had a lot of similar blue used for moonlight and such in this challenge already. Can't wait for the next version.

-jeremy

PPGINGRAS
02-16-2006, 07:44 PM
Thanks for the comments Jeremy.

Ill look into that green suggestion.

My goal will be to make the warm and cold sides fight for light space.

Right now my outside orange light source is directional towards the left side...

Im gonna try a more omni directional source, so that it also hit the right side, and at the same time blend with the cold color. The result shoud become greenish.


Im very busy at work so updates might not be daily.




Cheers.




PPGingras

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CeDeEl
02-17-2006, 02:08 AM
Really focus on the guy feeling drunk and wanting to drink until he passes out or vomits though
thx Mr.J, well... never get drunk before. sorry. But i think i've got the point, hehe

update for script #2.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/dalimas/CdL_Script2_02.jpg

-ce de el-

CeDeEl
02-17-2006, 02:15 AM
Script #4: horror/ scarry scene.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/dalimas/CdL_Script4_01.jpg

I add some light for the other room
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/dalimas/CdL_Script4_01a.jpg

personally, i like the first one.
-ce de el-

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lazzhar
02-17-2006, 01:26 PM
I went script 4. I just started today and it looks like I will spend my life lightig kitchens :D
http://i1.tinypic.com/ny9ohl.jpg

lazzhar
02-17-2006, 01:29 PM
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=ny9rp1

jeremybirn
02-17-2006, 06:52 PM
That's great! Terrific work! It looks like the shadow of a character (maybe holding a telephone?) coming in from the other room.

-jeremy

elgordo
02-17-2006, 09:04 PM
Woaaaaaaa! ... Amazing!

PPGINGRAS
02-18-2006, 12:37 AM
Very good start Lazzhar...


I love your color scheme...




.

Synthesizer
02-18-2006, 02:46 AM
Great work lazzhar. It's looking very scary right now. That person's ankles look pretty skinny though:p Maybe you should turn up the shadow rays on the character though, it's looking a bit grainy.

lazzhar
02-18-2006, 09:51 AM
Thanks guys.

Yes it's the shadows of a 1 polygon playing the role of a gobo next the door in the right. And I forgot to use more rays for raytraced shadows I'm using there.

I was thinking to make the shot in a day as I was guessing that it will fit better to the idea of a baby-sitter working in that house. But couldn't get something interesting until I switched to a night dark look.

Maybe I'll move to start working on another script.

jeremybirn
02-18-2006, 03:34 PM
It would be good to do a clean-up pass on the first one first, fix the grainy areas, make sure all the table legs are shadowing where they should for a solid sense of contact. It looks like there are trace depth issues with some of the shadows not getting reflected (on the counter underneath the upper cabinet, there's a reflection of the kitchen wall that looks brighter than the wall itself, usually this is because a light doesn't have enough trace depth.) Also, the sink shouldn't reflect itself, the red on the back of the sink looks good but the reflection of the red onto the bottom of the sink just looks distracting and raytrac-y. The tall cylinder on the counter was supposed to be paper towels, not something shiney.

-jeremy

lazzhar
02-18-2006, 07:58 PM
Well, it's the fate of cheating http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon10.gif. I was using some lights that don't cast shdows at all to project the patern of leaves around the room and they were behind some troubles. Switching shadows doesnt fix the proble as it makes their effect less interesting here. The I tryed to create the same look with more spot lights. I tryed to get some contact shadows from the red bouncing light for the table and chair legs as well.
http://i1.tinypic.com/o042ae.jpg

mimixtra
02-18-2006, 09:12 PM
Woooowwwwww Lazzhar, :thumbsup: you always amaze me with what you post!

Well done, I like what you've done here, AMAZING!!!

I hope you keep posting more of your work because I really enjoy them very much even if I don't post much!! :)

Hamburger
02-19-2006, 01:54 AM
I'll definately finish this off later, here's a WIP after about an hour working on this scene (Script #4):

http://www.kiernanmay.net/images/wip/cgtalkLC4_wip_1.jpg

Maya + mental ray with no GI or FG.

lazzhar
02-19-2006, 12:45 PM
Woooowwwwww Lazzhar, :thumbsup: you always amaze me with what you post!

Well done, I like what you've done here, AMAZING!!!

I hope you keep posting more of your work because I really enjoy them very much even if I don't post much!! :)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon10.gif Even though you don't post much thanks a lot. I'm glad you liked what I do http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Sphere♥
02-19-2006, 04:59 PM
Nice cretive angle. I wish I understood why it works so well? Is it the fly on the wall, or security camera effect? Or just the something's not quite right so it's creepy effect?

jeremybirn
02-19-2006, 07:14 PM
Hmmm... I think you need to split the difference a bit between the old and new versions. I like the new bottle shadow with the green in it and some of the other fixes, but there are new problems: the sink is going too dark now, some of the red on the back of the sink looked good in the old version, and a little more blue light on the fruit bowl could help.

The shadow of the babysitter is still really noisy, that still needs to be fixed, only now it gets confused with the shadow of the chair, so it almost looks like a shadow of a person cut off at the waist if you follow it wrong. Those new shadows of the table legs head away from a light source that doesn't exist on the back wall, they should either be much, much softer or head a different direction.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-19-2006, 07:47 PM
From here I'd say you should work first on color, then on shadows and occlusion.

BTW, it's not cheating to find some reference (like renting some DVDs that feature drunk or drug-dependant characters) and watch how other cinematographers have portrayed their point of view. There's nothing like finding a scene that captures something well and then analysing what makes it work to lead to a vision of how to portray something.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-19-2006, 07:52 PM
Good luck fixing the shadow problems.

I don't really see the "horror film" look yet, the environment outside looks daylit and colorfull and pleasant, but not like too pleasant in a disurbing way. I see some mostly plain white light entering the window... it seems as if it either needs to go more contrasty and black and white, or use more color, one way or the other, to capture the genre. The camera angle could also be more extreme, maybe closer to the floor or tilted a little, something to put you off from thinking it's a normal pleasant looking kitchen scene.

-jeremy

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jeremybirn
02-19-2006, 07:59 PM
Probably you should put a color other than black in the window, if its supposed to be such a bright light source. I guess this could be script #4 or maybe #3. Maybe in terms of colors you could use a contrasting color for some of the indoor light, and that would give you a chance to play up some of the shadows more for more of a horror film look.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-19-2006, 08:01 PM
The basic colors could work. The biggest problem seems to be that most of the light comes from the same angle as the camera, which makes the lighting very even and doesn't play-up the shadowiness of the scene very much.

-jeremy

CeDeEl
02-19-2006, 09:16 PM
OUCH! your sunlight did hurt my eyes! :thumbsup:

maybe you should do something more with the bottle.
I mean...IMO... script #2, it's about the "precious" bottle.

like Gollum looking at the "precious" ring (LOTR).
my precious... :bounce:
my precious... :bounce:
my precious bottle... hiks! (drunk) :p

-ce de el-

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elgordo
02-19-2006, 10:14 PM
Ok, thank you very much for your suggestion! I willl try the way you say in both comments.
Thank you!

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Hamburger
02-20-2006, 05:54 AM
I see what you mean - It does look flat. But I really want the light to come from that angle because that shadow in the middle of the floor is meant to be the killers head (which I will make more obvious).

I tried adding in a very weak yellow light coming in from the right and a flourescent light underneath the cabinets and it does look much better. Thanks Jeremy.

kary
02-20-2006, 06:18 AM
I took a quick shot at Script #3. Green dimensional portal from the window throwing out most of the light. White light from the door on the right, in theory to silhouette the character in light thats unlike the room.

Not satisfied with it, but I'm quite tempted to move into one of the other scripts for a bit and come back to it after some feedback and I've figured out all the things that are bugging me :)

http://www.karyblack.com/wips/lighting%20challenge/script-3-pass1.jpg

lazzhar
02-20-2006, 08:58 AM
Hmmm... I think you need to split the difference a bit between the old and new versions. I like the new bottle shadow with the green in it and some of the other fixes, but there are new problems: the sink is going too dark now, some of the red on the back of the sink looked good in the old version, and a little more blue light on the fruit bowl could help.

The shadow of the babysitter is still really noisy, that still needs to be fixed, only now it gets confused with the shadow of the chair, so it almost looks like a shadow of a person cut off at the waist if you follow it wrong. Those new shadows of the table legs head away from a light source that doesn't exist on the back wall, they should either be much, much softer or head a different direction.

-jeremy

That red spot on the sink is problematic a bit. In the 1st version it was a secondary reflection from the bottom onto faces aiming to the right of the screen. So making the sink not reflecting itself would make that red spot vanishing. As solution I thought to get it back using a reflection map (cubic one) as I'm doing in this pass.
http://i1.tinypic.com/o6l6b7.jpg

I've also soften the bouncing light creating contact shadows for the table legs.
It's is overlit just to get easy way to see the whole effect. Will fix other problems later.

lazzhar
02-20-2006, 09:14 AM
Nice, I like the overall alien green :)
Maybe if you could make shadowing that comes from the window more noticable around the room to get some dark areas making a mysterious mood? And why not some rays la Star Gate?
Keep it up.

herbertagudera
02-20-2006, 03:09 PM
my quick take on script #3..

i used two lights. raytraced shadows on both lights (thats why i have those grain.=D) and i used a shader glow on the window, i'm really planning to make streaming godrays (maybe next render, for now lemme know what you think =P).

anyway.. here it is..

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/LightingChallenge2_v01_ha.png

C & C's are most welcome..thanks

jeremybirn
02-20-2006, 03:40 PM
Agree with above. Also might consider putting the full window into the shot. Widen the camera angle and it'll look even less natural (too wide not to have barrel distortion or fisheye distortion) but that could add to the effect. If you could do an ambient occlusion pass that could help as well.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-20-2006, 03:55 PM
I like the idea of turning the whole set into an abstraction, but I'm not sure the composition is working the way it's framed now. If the whole point is someone whose life depends on leaping for that window, I'd expect the window to be emphasized more. Right now you read the composition and you tend to look away from the window, and the window is just another white area in a scene with a couple other white areas. Maybe changing the framing and tilt could lead people's eye to the window more readily? Maybe more rim light on objects near the window?

-jeremy

herbertagudera
02-20-2006, 05:59 PM
thanks jeremy for your kind thoughts about my first take on the challenge. after receiving your reply, i immediately worked on it. i hope this one is better than the first one.. :)

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/LightingChallenge2_v02_ha.png

Sciortino
02-21-2006, 03:15 AM
Hey everybody,
Here's my third go at the romantic kitchen scene.

I've changed the framing to focus more on the vintage merlot and less on the kitchen overall (I think vintage merlot is more romantic than a kitchen, so I'm hoping this framing helps convey the romance part). I've still got to do the chair and composite it in, but I wanted to get this up sooner rather than later.

There are still a couple of things I'm not satisfied with yet:

(1) There's a reflection just below and above the sink (a very light blue tint) that I think is coming from my main moon light but I'm still a little puzzled by it, unless it's a reflection from the table. Anyway, still gotta investigate that.

(2) A blue fill light that's behind the camera is creating unwanted specular highlights on the right-side lettering on the wine label. I want the label to look letter-press printed (very old style), but wasn't counting on these highlights.

(3) The texture on the wine bottle is perfect at the neck, but scales up on the lower part. I'm not sure how much I like that. Maybe it helps make the bottle look old.

(4) The background is ok I guess, but maybe a little too empty. So I wanna work on that too.

So here it is, with links to a hi-res and a very hi-res version.

Hi-res (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-03-02-17-050.png)
Very hi-res (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-03-02-17-100.png)

http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-03-02-17-025.png

herbertagudera
02-21-2006, 04:51 AM
they sciortino..i like your third version of the challenge..your breakdown is cool..i dont know anything about rim lights, how they work and how to make them work.. though i did try it my scenes..but i'm not really satisfied if i really got them right..

anyway..thanks for your breakdown..

herbertagudera
02-21-2006, 04:56 AM
added some color..i dont know if the rim light is really working as it should..gonna make some test about that..

third attempt (http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/LightingChallenge2_v03_ha.png)

and my Fourth Attempt (nothing really much change)
http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/LightingChallenge2_v04_ha.png

C & C's are deeply appreciated..

Sciortino
02-21-2006, 04:57 AM
My pleasure.
I'll try to post a breakdown of version three as well.
-Paul

jeremybirn
02-21-2006, 04:58 AM
Wah-Hoo! :bounce:

You stuck at it, and you came up with the romantic image!

In terms of finishing up, the blue on the table cuts off very abruptly. If it's supposed to be a reflection or a moonbeam or whatever, it should be much softer at the edge. Maybe there should be some more blue light near the window, too, like rimming some of the nearby objects or in a pool below the window. Shading on the paper towels makes the spindle look very bright compared to the towels, might tweak that too.

Congratulations!

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-21-2006, 05:01 AM
My pleasure.
I'll try to post a breakdown of version three as well.
-Paul

Breakdowns are great. If you could put them over a dark background that would be ideal, when I follow those links my browser puts white around them which almost blinds me to some of the darker images. Or get a super-final version of v3 before you do breakdowns.

-jeremy

Sciortino
02-21-2006, 05:07 AM
Thanks for the encouragement Jeremy. And again, thanks for doing this. I think I've learned a lot in the past 2 weeks and hope to keep up the learning.

And for the breakdowns, I'll wait until I have a super final version, and then I'll them on a dark background. I know what you mean about being blinded....

Thanks again.

-Paul

kary
02-21-2006, 07:16 AM
Great critques guys, I was able to try them out fairly painlessly so here we go:

http://www.karyblack.com/wips/lighting%20challenge/script-3-pass2.jpg

I took the levels way down, got both door and window in frame (though they can be played with a bit more), and got a 5 second portal in.

I might be going to dark here. The right side feels a bit to foggy / dreamy and thats not really what one would expect in an actiony sci fi scene. I'd like to do the portal up right, but at minimum get some volume to the light entering from there, the air reads like a vacum there. The framing on the left with the pitch black unused space is very awkward as well.

---

Immense thanks for putting this together Jeremy, it's very nice to have a chance to try things like this and the concentrated input is invaluable.

Sciortino
02-21-2006, 07:25 AM
Nice job so far. Looks like you tweaked the fan's post too--nice attention to detail.
For the script it sounds like maybe the character is being chased? Maybe there's some way to convey that in the lighting coming from one of the side rooms--dangerous probing search beams from his/her pursuers?
-Paul

Hamburger
02-21-2006, 07:41 AM
Looking good. The bottle is too transparent though, it doesn't look believable like what you had before.

lazzhar
02-21-2006, 09:26 AM
Hi, here is new update fixing some stuff here and there.
http://i1.tinypic.com/o8fdcn.jpg

Sciortino
02-21-2006, 11:52 AM
Lazhar,
It's telling a story--nice job. I also like your table top texturing.
Two questions on the light. What's going on with the light outside, because the left side of the tree is lit (the right is in deep shadow), but the light on the fruit inside looks like it's coming from the right outside? And then on the right side of your picture, the red light is coming from outside the room, even further right--should the inside side of the right wall also be lit in red?
-Paul

herbertagudera
02-21-2006, 01:14 PM
Thanks burgertrain..will work on that issue in my next render..i've been trying to to experiment how to create of mimic a rim light..applied some thing i've learned on the previous challenge and some of my own understanding..i hope i got this one pretty close..

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/LightingChallenge2_v05_ha.png

cryo_7
02-21-2006, 07:43 PM
This is another attempt for script 4. I was inspired by other members work, I hope this is ok.. :)

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lazzhar
02-22-2006, 01:00 PM
Lazhar,
It's telling a story--nice job. I also like your table top texturing.
Two questions on the light. What's going on with the light outside, because the left side of the tree is lit (the right is in deep shadow), but the light on the fruit inside looks like it's coming from the right outside? And then on the right side of your picture, the red light is coming from outside the room, even further right--should the inside side of the right wall also be lit in red?
-Paul

Thanks Paul.
In the outside I put a randm spot light in the left to get the tree illuminated, that same light isnt aimed toward the room, besides, when I've seen the outside overlit and attracting eyes wich hurts the composition imo, I added a negative light to get rid of the brightness there.
Concerning the frame of the door, I gess it's shadows darkning things there.

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niEt0
02-22-2006, 03:50 PM
Hi there, I went for the script number 4. I did it in Max+Vray and a bit of photoshop for radial blur (zoom). Materials and textures arent accurate couse I wanted to focus on ligthing, colors and composition, I hope you like it!

http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_horror_niEt0.jpg

niEt0
02-22-2006, 04:28 PM
Viewport screenshots.

http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_horror_viewport_niEt0.jpg

cryo_7
02-22-2006, 07:15 PM
great job Luis, I think this one is my favorite so far..!

niEt0
02-22-2006, 08:10 PM
Ta cryo_7!
Now m working in other script, but if someone wants to comment this one it will be very welcome :)

anaskova
02-22-2006, 08:35 PM
very abstract and inspiring!!!
congratulations
Ana

niEt0
02-22-2006, 09:10 PM
thx! anaskova! :)

Now this one goes for the script 2, similar software as before. Hope you like it :)

http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_morning%20sun_niEt0.jpg

...and a perspective screenshot of the viewport.

http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_morning%20sun_viewport_niEt0.jpg

Digiegg
02-23-2006, 12:04 AM
wow man... that's really good stuff..
keep posting those set ups. i can learn from them =)

jeremybirn
02-23-2006, 12:18 AM
Hi Luis -

Nice work. A simple flashlight beam certainly is consistent with a horror/suspense look. In terms of feedback you might use more subdivision on that ceiling fan, the scaling on the brick wall texture could be taller, the doorframe could use some texture, and maybe the flashlight beam could be given a dim outer glow like a real flashlight.

Not sure on the script 2 yet, the bottle doesn't seem like a central focus enough for a drunk contemplating it, and I don't see the morning light except what's coming from the room behind us.

-jeremy

niEt0
02-23-2006, 03:27 AM
Thanks for your encouragement and feedback! tomorrow Ill try to fix those things you told me.
But I did another image for the script 1, let me see what do you think about this one.

http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_RedWine_niEt0.jpg

and the viewport screenshot as well.

http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_RedWine_viewport_niEt0.jpg

Digiegg
02-23-2006, 05:51 AM
Might as well get alot of crit. on the work before the class so I'll just put my crappy lighting up here. Lighting is so not in my nature.
You guys can be harsh on mine as long as you teach me how to fix something and how to make it look better.

Script #2. (failed the moonlight...)

Hamburger
02-23-2006, 07:50 AM
Another image. Not too much texture work, I'll do that last. Added artificial light, background and other...stuff...

When I get the time I'll do a better wine bottle, cabinets, blur the reflections on the floor - dunno haven't thought about that yet? I'm thinking of adding a light wallpaper too because that back wall looks quite boring. Oh yeah and some wine in the winebottle.

http://www.kiernanmay.net/images/wip/cgtalkLC4_wip_2.jpg

Hamburger
02-23-2006, 07:57 AM
Ahh, don't be so negative in the future. I'm sure whatever your entry may be it'll look good.

herbertagudera
02-23-2006, 08:36 AM
with a little bit of godrays and a more noticeable rimlight on the wine bottle..=P

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/LightingChallenge2_v06_ha.png

bunnyld
02-23-2006, 01:04 PM
hey all
This is the first shot, i'm thinking what the table metirial shuold look like .. any ida's ?
My entry type is by script 2
http://ramot-hefer.britannica-ks.com/users/www/565/kitchen2_0001.jpg

jeremybirn
02-23-2006, 02:07 PM
I think if you look through some entries you'll see a lot of good ideas already. It's not cheating to rent a DVD of the genre you're trying to do and learn from similar scenes in the film, either.

Be careful with those tangencies! Lining up the cork of the bottle with the window ledge like that makes for a weaker composition than if you gave the bottle its own space in the middle of the window or a wall.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-23-2006, 02:15 PM
thanks jeremy for your kind thoughts about my first take on the challenge. after receiving your reply, i immediately worked on it. i hope this one is better than the first one.. :)

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/LightingChallenge2_v02_ha.png

This one is promising. You've got some contrast on the bottle, which looks better than versions where the bottle is fading away, or where the dark bottle is pushed against a dark background. (If you were going to make the bottle transparent, you'd need refraction to make it look like glass. Glass with liquid in it is tricky. Putting the bottle against a black background you'd need a MUCH brighter rim light to look like outdoor light, and probably some other reflections and glints.) Maybe this one could be livened up a bit with some color in the bottle's shadow, a few glints on the bottle?

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-23-2006, 03:26 PM
Another image. Not too much texture work, I'll do that last. Added artificial light, background and other...stuff...

When I get the time I'll do a better wine bottle, cabinets, blur the reflections on the floor - dunno haven't thought about that yet? I'm thinking of adding a light wallpaper too because that back wall looks quite boring. Oh yeah and some wine in the winebottle.

http://www.kiernanmay.net/images/wip/cgtalkLC4_wip_2.jpg

Hey, you've really got something there. It looks like one of those films where a lot of teenagers keep getting killed in creative ways.

There's something strange about the shadows (or is there occlusion) like on the left doorframe the top corner gets bright and the bottom edge suddenly shifts dark. Around the table legs and chair legs there is either a little dark edge of the shadows don't all hit in the right place. A few places might fall off more into darkness, like above the kitchen counter, and maybe if there were some soft occlusion to make areas like the top of the walls fade down as their approach the ceiling it would be good. You might improve textures and reflections a bit if you want, but they don't bother me too much, it just looks like a simple little set that could have been used in a teen slasher movie. Really 100% nailing the shadows and occlusion would be good though, they are so important to this scene.

-jeremy

PS - What is the shadow of? Is it Doogal? :)

niEt0
02-23-2006, 07:48 PM
I could not resit to go for script 3, instead to fix up the others images first :) , here it goes!

http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_Portal_niEt0.jpg

and viewport.

http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_Portal_viewport_niEt0.jpg

kary
02-23-2006, 08:31 PM
Thats a great take on 3 :) Not sure how much the fan is helping in that one. It seems like you're losing a bit of wall/ceiling definition with it's position, and you don't really have a bounce onto the ceiling anywhere other then right behind it.

The aggressive drop shadow on Spock really make the characters jump off the poster, neat stuff :)

kary
02-23-2006, 08:36 PM
Nice job so far. Looks like you tweaked the fan's post too--nice attention to detail.
For the script it sounds like maybe the character is being chased? Maybe there's some way to convey that in the lighting coming from one of the side rooms--dangerous probing search beams from his/her pursuers?
-Paul

Yep I did play with the fan a touch. Light is an increasingly interesting topic for me, but modelling is where I am fairly comfortable -- easy to play with the fan's mesh for a few minutes when putting off a lighting / camera decision ;)

I didn't read it as him neccesarily being chased -- I took it as he's recovering from a 'warp' somewhere with centaur, which turned out to be an objectionable experience. That he's being chased does sound more natural then racing through the kitchen just to rip into the next harrowing experience. Rather then say... pausing to enjoy the nice bottle of wine while reminiscing about objectionable centaurs.

Fair amount of cleanup to do in that scene, and when I get to it I'll try to setup a bit more story from the right.

---

Some really good stuff coming out in this challenge, I'll have to go through the threads more closely this weekend. Very interesting to see how many variations there are on scripts out there :) I've been playing with this (http://www.karyblack.com/wips/assembly/assembly8.jpg) thing in my spare time this week so haven't had as much time here as I would like (only finishing the characters, secondary modelling, and texturing to go!... yay.)

---

Did a really quick take on script 4; it's a cliched and a low quality render but fun:
http://www.karyblack.com/wips/lighting%20challenge/cliche.jpg

niEt0
02-23-2006, 10:00 PM
Its true, fan and Spocks shadow (the shadow is aready on the drawing) are not helping to the image, thx kary, I will add those things to the fixing list!

niEt0
02-23-2006, 10:06 PM
Hey man that really scare me!.. n1
I think the bump on the flor is to high, and other thing, maybe, is to change the white color on the top of the image, perhaps it looks better if you try a darker color.. green or blue. But I like the atmosphere.

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Digiegg
02-24-2006, 02:39 AM
The drunk guy script.


Straight from Maya rendering.
http://members.cox.net/digiegg/LR/Kitchen3a.jpg

Didn't think it was bright enough so messed with brightness/contrast in Photoshop.
http://members.cox.net/digiegg/LR/Kitchen3b.jpg

kary
02-24-2006, 04:40 AM
Composition is solid. Colour choices are good (a hint of yellow green in the walls might be something to play with). The sun/shade falloff on the fruit is very harsh, and the wood texture could have a bit more variety in it.

Instead of a straight brightness/contrast you might try something like this (yours has a graphical look to it which is cool, but this has more original image in it etc):

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/655/kit1nx.jpg

Method:
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/8971/untitled6rs.gif
Whoops, both of those are linear dodges not a linear burn ;)

Per-Anders
02-24-2006, 10:38 AM
Thught i'd quickly join in. Unfortunately as I don't have much time I just slapped a few procedurals on this and didn't alter any geo.

It's lit using standard lights, no gi but and a touch of AO in C4D default render engine. I didn't apply DOF in the app as I had initially intended (just didn't have time), so i roughed it in photoshop on the second image.

I had decided to have a more kitchen sink drama/murder mystery take on number 4 the babysitter with this one (though it could equally work for number 3). Aiming to give more tension through framing and viewing it more as a mid shot from a sequence (here we see the assailants pov, tension through not showing... well anything, previous shots would have been of the babysitter going to the kitchen, all close ups, e.g. headphones, closed eyes, hand of assailant clenching in anticipationm, then this.. the thlot plickens =O ).

Anyhow apart from the cabinet textures and geo changes I'd still alter a number of other things if i had time, e.g. something albeit very bleached out throught he window, some more creative use of shadow etc. Maybe if i get another free patch before this challenge is over I'll revisit it.

http://www.peranders.com/general/lighting_challenge_201.jpg

and then with a little postwork

http://www.peranders.com/general/lighting_challenge_202.jpg

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bunnyld
02-24-2006, 04:30 PM
ok here is another shot

I tried to make his 1st person perspctive when he go drunk in the kitchen


http://ramot-hefer.britannica-ks.com/users/www/565/kitchen0001.jpg

Digiegg
02-24-2006, 04:37 PM
ah very nice!!! thanks alot!! i'll edit them now =)
Learn something new everyday!

Digiegg
02-24-2006, 05:04 PM
Edited =)
thanks for the tips!!!

royterrrr
02-24-2006, 07:18 PM
i am really impressed by the overall result.
especially for script 2! good work man

but why did you delete the other walls?
when you delete walls, you will have less bouncing rays and photons so the scene lighting is far from real lighting? don't you think?

jeremybirn
02-24-2006, 09:48 PM
The script 2 is is great! I love how your reflections are working, on the bottle and even on the sink faucets. Maybe the color on the table doesn't mix with the moonlight color as well as it could (the color on the tabletop could be changed), and it would be great if the shadows on the table were smoother and softer.

For the script 3, I guess the thing about making special effects work within all-3D scenes is that you don't want the whole scene to look like an effect, or else the special effect doesn't look like a special effect. Maybe if you could ground the rest of the kitchen with really solid looking shading so it looked like a believable real kitchen that just happened to have a dimensional portal outside the window, that would work better.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-24-2006, 09:49 PM
but why did you delete the other walls?
when you delete walls, you will have less bouncing rays and photons so the scene lighting is far from real lighting? don't you think?

I think he hid the outer walls to show us a clear view, and the inner walls are single-sided surfaces.

-j

Hamburger
02-25-2006, 12:07 AM
That looks much better Digiegg. As Kary suggested try changing the wood texture as it's very large in scale and very repetitive. The cushion on the chair seems to be too dark in comparison with the rest of the chair as well.

Good image though, it's looking great.

herbertagudera
02-25-2006, 06:12 AM
Thanks Jeremy...


http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/LightingChallenge2_v09_ha.png

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bunnyld
02-25-2006, 02:48 PM
the same position of the camera
this time I tried not to use GI

http://ramot-hefer.britannica-ks.com/users/www/565/kitchennog3_0001.jpg

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floze
02-26-2006, 06:01 PM
Script #3 attempt.

I finally had a day off yesterday and could complete some stuff for the challenge. I hope you enjoy it:

http://individual.floze.de/fileadmin/files/cgtalk/kitchen_floze.jpg

Thanks for your attention.

francescaluce
02-26-2006, 08:03 PM
very nice :)
soft mood.





ciao
francesca

Sciortino
02-27-2006, 04:25 AM
Floze,
Love your textures (like the wood in the ceiling) and the lighting. Very nice mood (although I don't remember off-hand what script #3 is). It's all so nice that maybe the fan looks a little thick and a little shiny in comparison?
-Paul

LOOK_AT_ME
02-27-2006, 06:38 AM
woop woop weep weep way to go nice one man!!!

floze
02-27-2006, 10:05 AM
Thanks for the comments. :)

Sciortino: Script #3 is the guy jumping through dimensions:
At the top of the stairs, BUCK stabilizes himself against
a doorframe and scans his surroundings. He is in a KITCHEN -
LATE TWENTIETH CENTURY - and mercifully free of Centaurs.
He sees A WINDOW. Escape! BUCK crouches, ready to dive
through the glass for another trans-dimensional leap.
Though I hate explaining/interpreting (specially my own) pictures: I generally tried to visualize the situation by the contrast of an idyllic scene and a strange off-world perspective.

About the fan: I didnt model the scene! ;)

Sciortino
02-27-2006, 11:19 AM
Ok, here's getting close, I think, to a final version. And thanks for the crits both on- and off-line. I keep saying I've learned a bunch and it's true. This is so much more addictive than AOE ever was!

Hi-res (http://incblots.com/html/kitchen-08-b.html)
Very hi-res (http://incblots.com/html/kitchen-08.html)

Thanks again,
Paul

http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-08-a.png

dbates
02-27-2006, 02:36 PM
I'm not sold on the bottle shader. It looks like a wood texture, and doesn't seem very reflective. (Especially as compared to this image: http://www.stuartcellars.com/press_photos/Merlot-W.jpg.)

vonky
02-28-2006, 06:00 PM
Here is my first take on script #1

jeremybirn
02-28-2006, 08:24 PM
[I split this post off into a new thread for you.]

Looks good!

Maybe what you see through the window could be brighter, to motivate the light we see coming through there, and maybe the wine bottle could use a little rim or some glints or reflections.

-jeremy

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jeremybirn
02-28-2006, 09:46 PM
Good work, it's a nice, solid scene.

I admit that I can't really see that contrast, the window just looks like a nice view to me. Then again, it's not as if every shot in a sci-fi film has to look like sci-fi. Often, within some scenario, there are more ordinary looking scenes, so choosing something subtle doesn't mean it isn't working.

You could sell the sci-fi aspect of the story more if you made something a little more off or unusual about the window, if that's what you want to do. The fan looks like something out of "i, robot" or something sci-fi already.

-jeremy

floze
02-28-2006, 10:43 PM
Good work, it's a nice, solid scene.

I admit that I can't really see that contrast, the window just looks like a nice view to me. Then again, it's not as if every shot in a sci-fi film has to look like sci-fi. Often, within some scenario, there are more ordinary looking scenes, so choosing something subtle doesn't mean it isn't working.

You could sell the sci-fi aspect of the story more if you made something a little more off or unusual about the window, if that's what you want to do. The fan looks like something out of "i, robot" or something sci-fi already.

-jeremy
Thanks for the critique. Yeah, I've been trying a while with the sci-fi look you mention, but then I decided to use the nature scene (btw. it's a painting of Caspar David Friedrich as you probably noticed).
I mean, who knows, maybe the hero will jump into a prehistoric world? To be honest, I actually didnt see the hero in a sci-fi world, more in a fantasy one. Like Terry Pratchett's book character Rincewind travelling unintentionally through some strange dimensions.. maybe I could set up a dungeon dimension leap...! ;)

But anyhow. I understood your wordplay way too late (Buck), because unfortunately Buck Rogers wasnt my time - I've been born too late. :D

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niEt0
03-01-2006, 02:11 AM
Sorry by the delay of posting in here, I was out of town for a short holidays. Tomorrw I will keep on posting, thx for the comments/critiques to all of you! :)

niEt0
03-01-2006, 08:06 PM
Here they are, updating scripts 1 & 2, tell me what do you think now about them.
Royterr, yes, I just hid the outerwalls for the screenshot, but Im using it for rendering.


Script 1
http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_RedWine_niEt0_002.jpg


Script 2
http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_morning%20sun_niEt0_002.jpg

jeremybirn
03-02-2006, 03:17 AM
If the glare of the morning light is supposed to be blinding, then maybe the back-lit wall could go a lot darker, so it's mostly the window that's bright. Of course you could rim things with light from the window, just not so much on the back wall.

The bottle shader looks really weird, like the bottle is thicker above the edge of the table. Maybe to simplify don't make it transparent at all, just reflections, rims, and mostly a dark bottle in contrast to the bright window.

The table looks very flatly, evenly lit, especially the part in the foreground. Maybe it could be made darker, some shadows or ambient occlusion could darken it more.

-jeremy

holle
03-02-2006, 12:48 PM
Hi,

I choose script #2 for my image.
Still some things to do, but post here the actual wip.

Rendered with Cinema 4D and FinalRender2.

http://www.schoemann-unna.de/preview/fr_pub/Kitchen05_p.jpg

Hamburger
03-02-2006, 01:20 PM
Cool, thanks for the feedback again. That shadow is meant to be scary! So I took it out (will put one in again later, so just imagine it for now!), reworked the camera, completely new lights (some shadow errors I'll fix later), colours and added some new materials.

Here it is:

http://www.kiernanmay.net/images/wip/cgtalkLC4_wip_3.jpg

This is the second last image I'll do, I'm just running out of time. :(

niEt0
03-02-2006, 09:32 PM
Scripts 3 & 4. Hope you like it, if not... be harsh!! :)

Script 3
http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_Portal_niEt0_000.jpg

Script 4
http://www.niet0.com/cgtalk_4Scripts_horror_niEt0_002.jpg

Sciortino
03-03-2006, 05:32 AM
Hey Holle,
I like what you did with the fan, but I especially like the walls--kind of like old plaster wall you might find in a villa in Tuscany. The wood also adds to that feel. The wood works for me on the table, but I'm not sure it does on the cabinets. Maybe it's the scale of the texture on them? Also, for such a brightly lit room, maybe the shadows on the right side (under the cabinets and near the trash can) could be lighter? Yeah, I can see Nick squinting in that kitchen!
-Paul

Sciortino
03-03-2006, 05:42 AM
Luis,
A couple of comments and questions on your scenes (which look terrific, btw).

Script 1:
I wonder if the reflection of the window on the marble table top might be a little too crisp?

Script 3:
The window kinda looks a little like a plasma TV now rather than a window. Maybe more depth beyond the window somehow would fix that?

Script 4:
Creepy! Reminds me of Silence of the Lambs and the X-Files.

All very cool stuff. Thanks for posting your breakdowns too.
-Paul

Digiegg
03-03-2006, 10:15 AM
geesh.. script 2 looks beautiful.... how do u do that?? ahah
As for script 3, yes it does look like a plasma TV.
Maybe you can extend the purple light more and dim the green light?
So the purple like can be like creeping in u know?
Good stuff man! I love your lighting work.

Sciortino
03-03-2006, 04:27 PM
I had been trying to get an older look with the bottle, but I've gotten similar comments from others so I guess that wan't working the way I had hoped. So anyway, here's a new version (the final version for this script) that provides a shinier bottle. I hope to provide a lighting location breakdown this weekend, along with new work on script 4. In the meantime, in addition to the usual high and very high resolutions, here's a photoshop file with all the layers--might be fun to play with (3.3 MB download).

High (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-10-hi.png)
Very high (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-10-vhi.png)
Photoshop file (http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-10-small.psd.zip)

http://incblots.com/images/kitchen-10.png

metamesh
03-03-2006, 05:40 PM
I always admired ur ideas and the way u bring them to life through ur lightings and ur cameras, ur work is always inspirational and there is something to learn from it always
Now let me tell you, it does look like a plasma tv... :)
keep the good work!

Alex

ps: Jeremy birn, is great to see u here! we had a couple of email echanges like 6 years ago! wow :) i always loved ur sofimage video, i still have it in VHS!

kary
03-03-2006, 08:33 PM
Agreed with the above, a bit more of a role for that purple light would be nice. There is something a little weird about the city being that clearly defined while the moon is that intense, but thats probably just me.

Really great stuff man, the seperation you get in each script of the set is fantastic. Good angles, etc etc :)

kary
03-03-2006, 08:40 PM
Scroll through the thread and you see a lot of development here, can't really ask for more then that eh? ;) I like the final result, composition seems good. Only question I have is about how colourful the fruit are -- realizing that they're right beside the center of interest anyway might make it a non issue, but perhaps just a took more defocus / desaturation going into the depth? Someone else might be better to comment on it, but it just seems like there isn't anything in the right to balance that off, definately nit picking though imo.

Look forward to the other scripts if you take them on :)

kary
03-03-2006, 08:44 PM
Nice feel there, photographic really. It is a nice texture on the table, but I'm thinking splinters? ;)

That desaturated with the deep shadows works for me, if I were hungover I'd feel some stabbing pain from those bright whites :)

kary
03-03-2006, 08:48 PM
I like the new angle and crop :). It's a bit of a shame you can't get more shadow in play on the far wall, but I think that would be getting awkwardly low with the light. Good stuff, coming along really well.

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holle
03-04-2006, 05:01 AM
Thanks for your comments.

Yes Im also not so happy with the wood of the cabines .....
...but still working on it.

royterrrr
03-04-2006, 05:13 AM
hello every body. Here's my version of script2. I used MR in maya 6.
Here is what i wanted my scene to look like. I used Gi and maya fog light.
But i couldn't render the scene after some tweeking, i got the error message :


warn : maya_state(): Called on an unexpected ray.
all my objects have shaders assigned to them, belonging to shading groups.
there is no shading groups with no shaders attached to them.


i guess it had something to do with MR understanding the maya fog light.
http://www.aedii.qc.ca/v2/fichiers/uploads/section_4/test_2.jpg




Too bad...so i deleted fog light and started something else. Here is my scene with one spot light and 2 incadescent planes (gi+fg). I regret the fact that FG always bleaches the intresting highlights and dark zones generated by GI.
http://www.aedii.qc.ca/v2/fichiers/uploads/section_4/test_10.jpg

MikeBracken
03-04-2006, 05:34 AM
First render. I chose the second script.



http://www.3dlinks.com/images/gallery/gallery3/chal0212.jpg

tcomputerchip
03-04-2006, 09:01 AM
This is my attempt at lighting. Any comments or suggestions would be appritiated.

Thank You,

niEt0
03-04-2006, 11:42 AM
Hi tcomputerchip, nice picture! ( m talking about the image on the right, that I think is better than the one on the left ), I really like your color scheme, the "chiaroscuro" you have print on it and the evocative glow on the bottle.
A few things that you can enhance (IMHO) are :
-The tree out side ( and clouds ) are more sharpened than the rest of the image.
-Texture on chairs its a bit large.
-The back side of foreground chair looks flat.

Good work!

niEt0
03-04-2006, 11:54 AM
Nice picture!, the only thing I dont really like is that the bottle looks hovering ( very poor shadows around it ) and have a few things on the background around it, so you loose focusing on bottle.

niEt0
03-04-2006, 12:04 PM
Hi there, good picture in general!.. but take care of the light, main illumination is comming from the ceiling of the kichen, and light comming through the window is quite poor, so the whole image is a bit flat.

niEt0
03-04-2006, 12:19 PM
Very nice image in general!... but remember tha the bottle is our "starring", now looks flat and there is no focus on it, so better position, textures on it ... I think an extra light on the left of the room will add more volumen on bottle and also to the chair on the left.

royterrrr
03-04-2006, 04:50 PM
so you are suggesting same power for the direct illumination but LESS for the indirect illumination?

Sciortino
03-04-2006, 06:17 PM
Ditto. Nice--really nice. Love the light. Like on mine though, the color of the fruit sort of pops out. And the paper towels are reflective?
-Paul

tcomputerchip
03-04-2006, 07:26 PM
Thanks for you input, sometimes I overlook the obvious things, like the outside environment being too sharp. I will try some more things with the chair, I have been trying to balance the back-lit areas and the foreground area's and in doing that, I guess I washed out some of the depth on the chair.

Again, thanks for the comments.

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MikeBracken
03-04-2006, 08:04 PM
LOL...I didnt even realize that those were paper towels. My bad. I havent really messed with the fruit yet. Just difuse color. Camera angle needs some work. Any more suggestions are welcome.

Regards,
Mike

kary
03-04-2006, 09:13 PM
I believe he's speaking to the fact that exterior light almost always overwhelms interior lights.

Opelfruits
03-04-2006, 09:48 PM
script 2, FR2 + C4D, first try kinda sucked, hopefully this one is more with the theme

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/9621/script24qo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


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