View Full Version : FX WARS! THE OCEAN: -R.Quinn

02 February 2006, 03:37 PM
ok here i go!

02 February 2006, 06:41 PM
ok i got everything set up for my ocean now i want foam..
I was thinking that by using a gradiant ramp i can set off foam on my waves based on height but can i spawn particles from that?! in other words can a gradient ramp create particle from an object based on a uvw map?

02 February 2006, 08:28 PM
Depending on the software you use, you might be able to do it.

I think in Maya that you could use a samplerinfo node to drive particle emission per vertex with something that looks like a bump map (black = 0, white = 1) -- there might be some math involved in clamping the emission down to a 0-1 range, and you might want to use an animated procedural to break up the uniformity of the emission (ie multiply your emissionmap by an animated 2D noise before piping it in to emission per vertex).

I'd like to see a test if this is the route you're taking... sounds pretty cool!

Another way you might be able to do it is emit particles on collisions from your bump/wavefield & a particle volume container at the height you want to start generating your spray.


02 February 2006, 09:13 PM
OH YEAH! you just gave me an idea.. all i gotta do is create a plane at the height i want and then link that to the waves so that when they go through the plane (invisible) is spawns particles.. i think that could work..
im using 3dmax btw

02 February 2006, 09:26 PM
using the invisible plane sounds like a good idea... one suggestion though... if you use the plane you might consider giving the plane a bit of a "crumple" (not sure what to call it in max) that way not ALL the foam/spray is being emitted from exactly the same height which would look fake. rather, the foam/spray will be emitted from semi-random heights which would break up the regularity. since foam/spray is most often a product of wind resistence the irregularity of the foam emission will enhance the effect of varying winds. :D


02 February 2006, 09:38 PM
ahaha beat me to it!
i was just thinking how bad it would look if all the waves were emitting from the same spot

02 February 2006, 09:41 PM
You could pipe a wavefield onto your collision plane (like an animated displacement instead of a crumple) and use that as your base for collisions -- give it a little more organic look?

02 February 2006, 10:16 PM
Ok so I just established what I need..
My entry will contain a small edit of 3 shots
1- establishing shot of bad ocean storm
2- submarine emerging from sea
3- huge wave flipping over the sub onto the camera

I'm probably putting myself in deep water(no pun intended!) with those intricate shots but that would be so cool to do!

02 February 2006, 10:44 PM
Fading in from black.. this will be what the establishing shot will look like.. take consideration I havent added the weather elements yet and still working on the foam..
clouds & rain will be composited in after effects

02 February 2006, 09:57 PM
ok i have assisgned a mix material with this sea material i made and the other a foam material.. now i mix them with a ramp but for some reason im not seeing my foam.. i see it on the slot sample but when i render its not there.. anyone have an idea whats going on?

02 February 2006, 08:56 AM
Ok so I just established what I need..
My entry will contain a small edit of 3 shots
1- establishing shot of bad ocean storm
2- submarine emerging from sea
3- huge wave flipping over the sub onto the camera

I'm probably putting myself in deep water(no pun intended!) with those intricate shots but that would be so cool to do!

Man... there goes my idea LOL!

02 February 2006, 04:20 PM
Nobody Knows what the problem is?

02 February 2006, 07:15 PM
Ok welll after watching U-571 and K-19:The Widowmaker I've decided to change my first shot to *fly by* of the sub going toward the surface.. with bubbles and all from the blades..

So the order is now

1-Underwater shot of sub going toward surface.(Close-Up)
2-Surfacing sub in stormy waters.(Far Shot)
3-wave rolling over sub toward camera.(From mid-to-close-up shot)

02 February 2006, 04:44 PM
the night brought me a freshly rendered scene
it is 5 second and that is the first shot!
The sub passes the camera heading to fresh air!
I still have to composite the underside of the water..
I plan on doing that in after effects
theres the halfway frame

02 February 2006, 08:23 PM
ok well the first shot is rendering out of after effects as we speak!
i composited the underwater view with the submarine and well it did not go as planned
the alpha chanel I rendered with max was completly white! due to the amount of fog and volume light i put in there..! (bang head) so I had to make an alpha out of my color video by processing 4 different layers. The final result is pretty satisfying on a still I hope it looks as good in the video.

02 February 2006, 08:34 PM
....The final result is pretty satisfying on a still I hope it looks as good in the video.Well Robert, that sounds damn interesting and exiting! :scream: I'm now only looking forward very much for some images or 'sneak peak'! :twisted: Do you have anything (a still or so?) to show us for now?

Lets wish you the best luck for the challenge! :applause:

02 February 2006, 09:09 PM
Thanks Dutchman! Thank you for your nice words!

well the render is done here is the shot.. I am not happy with the noise at the top of the picture and with the camera shake.. I will definetly work on this. but as a rough I think its good
Its pretty mush what i wanted it to look like

02 February 2006, 09:23 PM
Wow thats excellent -R.Quinn :beer: , it has allot of atmosphere. The shafts of light coming from the surface is a really nice touch.

02 February 2006, 09:41 PM
thanks! its encouraging! I like the bubbles the propeller emits!

02 February 2006, 10:41 PM
Hey Quinn,

I like the look of what you've got there!

I think the sub is moving too fast, though... makes it look smaller than it is supposed to.

- Jonas

02 February 2006, 10:26 PM
uhm, just a quick note. if that's supposed to be a camera shake you need to change something very important. in your quicktime only the sub is "shaking" and the rest of the image is steady. in case of a camera shake the whole image would move, not only one object. right now it looks like your sub is jumping up and down.
I would suggest rendering in 10% righer resolution and adding the camera shake in your favorite compositing tool.

good luck with the rest, I'm looking forward to more updates

02 February 2006, 03:06 PM
Well! both of you were right!
I have re-rendered the whole thing! without any shaking and much slower actually double the time.

I will put it together to see today..
I also finished rendering the establishing shot of the sea..
So goodies to come soon

I like this challenge! the hard part.. the sub interacting with the sea surface...:eek:

02 February 2006, 07:03 PM
Well.. Todays word is RAIN!
Ive been working on the rain for my establishing shot for 2 days now..
Its starting to come together.. I thought its would be easier to make the rain in after effects.. now im not quite sure anymore lolll
Ill test it in 3dMax compare my results and if 3d is better.. then all that 2d work will go into the garbage.. cause its the result that matters not the work!


02 February 2006, 10:04 PM
this is it.. the first beta of shot 1
the rain was done in after effects using many layers of particles I dont really like it..
tell me waht you think about the rain!? I know my foam is missing but im still working on that!
the shader itself is final i think.. unless you have crits?
Oh yeah turn your speakers on!
so give me some crits feedback something!
wether good or bad it will help me fine tune (

02 February 2006, 10:18 PM
for some strange reason I get the quicktime logo when downloading then it changes to a quicktime a logo with a question mark in the middle of it after the download has been completed(as if to say somethings gone wrong), but strangly your previous *.mov worked fine.

02 February 2006, 10:28 PM
hmm interesting..

02 February 2006, 07:17 AM
Yea, and downloading the file and playing it, gets a "the file is not a movie file" error message... :shrug:

- Jonas

02 February 2006, 07:56 PM
my previous link should work now..
I dont know why it wasnt working before..
it seems I had to export in premiere then re export in after effects to compress properly.. for internet (

02 February 2006, 08:14 PM
The sounds effects are great really brings it to life :) , I like the rain but maybe the particles for the rain drops could be a little smaller though.

02 February 2006, 08:15 PM
This is definitely in the right path! it looks like it won't be long for you to get something decent.

Watch out, maybe you noticed it, but at about the 2/3rd of the duration of your clips you have some weird artifact going on. It's well apparent in the foreground at the left of the clip. Maybe some key in the noise of the texture or in the nimation of your mesh.

Can't wait to see you there man!

Keep it up.

I also like the haze on the farther waves AND the clouds at the end of the frame.



02 February 2006, 08:19 PM
thanks to you both for your crits

whats an artifact?!
I realize my ocean drops a couple feet at once at one point

02 February 2006, 08:33 PM
a glitch i fyou prefer.

the ocean drops, And the texture seems to stop for a few frames.



02 February 2006, 08:51 PM
hmmm damn thanks for picking it up!
ill try fixing that!
What about the rain.. better to do it in 3d or is it ok.!>?

and how long to get the feel couple second or more like 10 seconds..

02 February 2006, 09:21 PM
10 seconds might be too long, if you just want a feel, i'd say 3-4 seconds.

The rain you have looks ok, it could be used to some more rain elements.

You are not forced to have an interaction for everydrop that hits the surface of the water as long as you have that nice haze on top of the surface.
In my opinion.

:) Keep it up man!

Move on!

02 February 2006, 10:41 PM
Wauw, that is really a cool composite. Nice sky reflections in the water, nice z-depth....

Only thing (besides the drop) is, the rain looks a bit chunky, like fast falling snowflakes... I'd prefer some thinner streaks.

Good work!

- Jonas

03 March 2006, 06:53 PM
Hi ok i have started work on my emerging sequence of the sub coming out of the water..

now to time my shots right i wanted to edit rough animatics..
how do i render a movie file of what i see in the perspective viewport in 3dmax.. i just want that.. nothing more.. so it can render in real time.. and i can time my shots with the pace and start adding music and audio.. without having the final renders..

03 March 2006, 04:50 PM

Well there is your first look at the emerging sequence!

Ive decided to use 3 cameras and I might add wave motion to them.. I dont know if it needs it..

Tell me what u think!

03 March 2006, 05:32 PM
Hey Quinn, looking good, there. ;)

Comments on the editing:

The cut from A to B is too awkward, because the angles are very similar. I'd make that one shot if I were you, maybe move the camera from position A to B.
Something's wrong with the cut from B to C, and from C to D too, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's because all cuts are virtually from the front, so they're not different enough - meaning, to the eye the object just "jumps" in frame. Try moving the camera in clip C, making the angle more from behind.
Of course, that would ruin the "fin going over the head", as you have now, and that would be a shame...

I dunno exactly what to do, but all your angles are from the front, with the submarine coming almost head on. Try three more individual camera angles. (but be careful about cutring from left to right side of the submarine, that would make the sub change direction in frame, and that's called breaking the 180 degree rule ;) )

- Jonas

03 March 2006, 05:36 PM
yeah i know about the rule

but damn.. i didnt want to do a behind shot just cause.. well its boring a sub from behind.. haha

hmmm i dunno.. ill try making it more dynamic maybe..

03 March 2006, 05:39 PM
Hmm, then how about skipping shot A (keep it same angle as B), then shot C where we go under the fin, and then for the bellysplash shot, cut back to angle B?

03 March 2006, 05:40 PM
yeah i know what you mean with all the angles from the front.. i keep watching it over and over

and i think its cause some have motion and some dont so it throws you off balance..
ill try adding more motion to all the shots..
thanks for the help

EDIT::I REALLY LIKE MY HELI SHOT.. belly splash so.. i dont want to loose it..:scream:
ahh man.. i gotta get it to work..! hmmmmmmmmmmm

03 March 2006, 05:41 PM
Or, in the "under the fin" shot, you could hold that angle, pan right as the sub goes by, and then to shot D as it is, going over the sub.

03 March 2006, 04:28 PM
This is fresh out of the render oven!
unfortunatly they take 29 minutes to render per frame.. ouch
but lucky for me only 30 of them are left to render..
Anyway this is a rough photoshop mod of what the final product will look like..!
the rain is still missing and im still thinking of withching over to 3d for that..
but cant find a way to do nice rain

03 March 2006, 07:16 PM
Im fiddling around with rain..
I cant believe I can do complex spashes and what not, but cant do ACCEPTABLE RAIN!

I want to have rain that you see even when it passes really close to the camera..
the reason i dont see my rain close to camera is the motion blur samples.. when the drop falls close to the lens its too quick for the camera to pick up. I would do that in real life by cranking up the fstop but how do you do that in 3d?
irrg I can see the deadline coming and its a pain!

03 March 2006, 03:53 AM
Cool stuff you got going. I'd like to see the anim when it's rendered.

For the close up rain maybe you could try to render a separate pass for your close up rain so you can really fine tune the look you want for those 'hero' raindrops.
I had the same problem with my mist I couldn't get it too look good in the foreground and in the background so I just made different passes.

03 March 2006, 04:01 AM
thanks Ill try that

(1 more layer in this composite! lol wow this is soo complicated but so much fun when you see the results!)

03 March 2006, 12:23 PM
great rain! :thumbsup:
but the sound is rain in ground, i have the same problem. :banghead:
i use AcidPro5 (Sony)
and you?

03 March 2006, 03:28 PM
All sound editing is done in premiere
I use about 8 layers of rain sounds taken from the lucasfilm special effects audio library archive CDs. A very handy christmas present from a few years back..
I tried to combine it with some bubbling sounds to make it more *waterish*


03 March 2006, 10:20 PM
Im in the rendering process now.. and i want to know how to set up max so that i can render a few scenes over night.. is that possible or do i have to wake up to come and start another render!?>

thank you

03 March 2006, 01:18 PM
hi, Quinn

look this site:
can help you!

look my audio-test also!

CGTalk Moderation
03 March 2006, 01:18 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.