View Full Version : Anatomy Thread of Gunilla - 3D

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07 July 2006, 07:48 AM
Hey Gunie!
Anyway, the move will be on Monday and after getting settled I hope to be back with full speed. In fact, the whole moving thing have made me very inspired and ambitious ...
Yeah, that sounds promising:bounce: !!!
I'm looking forward to see you back for some working and spam sessions...there really seems to be a sommer hole of spamming here around:D ...
Good luck with the final moving!:)


07 July 2006, 09:07 AM
Monday it is ! .... How 's the new floor ? :D

So now , no reasons to not see the legendary Gunie speed ! :scream: ... Look who's talking ... :scream:

Have a great day Gunie !!

07 July 2006, 06:33 AM
Ahhh-thanks for the push, friends :)
The floor and myself are terrific - we where moving for 14 hours yesterday, in 30 degrees... puh, but now everything is in the new place if not in the right place...
I only have my portable and dialup connection for some days - I guess that can be a good excuse for not updating? ;)

Have a great weak all, hope to be up here soon again.

07 July 2006, 06:38 AM

Gunie's back! :bounce:We've missed you...glad to hear that all went smoothly, and that you are settling in. :)

Dial up? :cry: We will never see you! :scream:

Cheers, ;)


07 July 2006, 09:04 AM
we where moving for 14 hours yesterday, in 30 degrees

Have you already eaten a snail ? .... well if you want to , no need to bake me ... I'm already done ... pheww... :surprised

Good to know you finally start to organize your new place ...
Let's see if some notorious posting could switch the dialup connection to a real one faster ...

cheers ,


07 July 2006, 06:28 AM
Beckie- I hate it! I wont have my broadband back until the end of August! :banghead:
I had forgot how frustrating this dialup can be... anyway, hope you have a great time at Siggraph. I'll be there in my dreams :)

Steph - so, what's up with this Stephounette thing - you got to tell me! One of Beckies bright moments I suspect? :D
My organizing have gone quite speedy, even if I really have a lot of stuff ... but as I said, the broadband isn't expected anytime soon - I mite have to threaten them with my whip... do you think that will work? :)

08 August 2006, 09:36 AM
so, what's up with this Stephounette thing - you got to tell me! One of Beckies bright moments I suspect?

Tell me about it , everyone in my neighborhood is calling me Stephounette ... yesterday the mailman called me Phounette ... OMG ! :D ... I could blame Beckie for that .... ROFL

I mite have to threaten them with my whip... do you think that will work?

well , whip has prove its efficiency many times in the past ... :wise:

08 August 2006, 10:22 AM
Hello Gunie,

It's nice to see the moving is now finished... I hope the new place will be perfect for much new creations and updates, I'm just sorry for you about the actual connection... but it's not a good reason to stop to work :scream: hahaha

Well... it's good now to be at home... with you all :love:

08 August 2006, 05:23 PM
Tell me about it , everyone in my neighborhood is calling me Stephounette ...

Hmmm... still don't get it - are you sure it's not because you try all the shoes you are designing? :shrug:

Whip is good, yes - but did it help you to make Dimi swim over the Atlantic? :D
As you see, I'm still very well informed :)

Lolo - Hello dear, how good to see you back ... this place is to quiet without you :love:
And actually, I have finally got started as today for a new project... it's not at all anatomy related so it will not be uploaded here. Anyway, it feels good to finally stop the whole moving thing and get to work ... even better will be when I can get back to full spam speed :D

08 August 2006, 05:44 AM
Morning Dear... the full spam speed sounds good for us...

...even if the new project is not anatomy, I hope to see soon something of you... if you post on CgTalk, don't forget to send me the link, I've not much time actually to walk under all the threads :scream:

08 August 2006, 06:11 AM
Morning Gunie!

Good to hear that the moving thing is done now and you're going back to work:) .
How about your cat, already feeling familiar with the new place:twisted: - I know from experience how terrible cats can be until they accept their new location...
I agree with Lolo , if you can show something of your new work, let us know !
So it seems the summer spam hole is over here:bounce: , now you only need your broadband connection back...

Have a nice day!


08 August 2006, 07:49 AM
Whip is good, yes - but did it help you to make Dimi swim over the Atlantic?

ROFL :scream: .... you know everything !! ... mind reader ? :curious:

And actually, I have finally got started as today for a new project... it's not at all anatomy related so it will not be uploaded here.

No guts ? ... No foetus ? ... Gunilla ? is that you ? ... *pinches the so called Gunilla* :curious:
Dying to know about it !

08 August 2006, 01:56 PM
OPB Gunie: Beckie- I hate it! I wont have my broadband back until the end of August! :banghead:
I had forgot how frustrating this dialup can be... anyway, hope you have a great time at Siggraph. I'll be there in my dreams :)
Thanks Gunie! SIGGRAPH was a lot of fun...maybe by now you've seen some of the pictures, here (

Wishing you much luck with getting broadband. And it's great to see the team (but where's Mona?) back here. :)



08 August 2006, 05:34 AM
Morning friends... and thanks to Beckie for this link about Siggraph photos... it's certainly an incredible event to visit for sure... and incredible to meet much interesting people... that make me envy... maybe one day so... :thumbsup:

...nice day for the team :)

08 August 2006, 06:21 AM
Good morning Spam team! ;) It's so good to see you all here again...

Lolo - New project, we'll see what happens and if I post it here, of course I will send the link. I will need your support as always :)

Sabrina - the cat was really stressed for some days, but have adjusted far better than expected. He seems happier than ever, spending the days discovering the world on the terrace and coming in to tell me all about it. It makes me happy to see him like this, the old place was really not big enough for the two of us.
Seems I can spam even without a broadband but uploads has to wait (and there was a good excuse for staying in snailmode) :D

Steph - haha, well not exactly mind reader, more of a lurker perhaps? Don't hold your breath about my new project yet. It might become one of the ones never finished... ever heard of those? :rolleyes:
I promise I let you know if something comes out of it.

Beckie - OPB Gunie? Obsessive Phoetus Builder? Overly Pedantic Babe? Online Phantom Barracuda?
See now, what you did? :D
Thanks for the photo link, I have tgo wait until I get a better connection since they are many and they are big :(

Lolo - Morning again dear ... have a great day all!

08 August 2006, 07:17 AM
OPB Gunie?
Overly Pedantic Babe

:scream: hahahahahaha... I keep this one :D:applause:

08 August 2006, 01:39 PM
OPB Lolo: Morning friends... and thanks to Beckie for this link about Siggraph photos... it's certainly an incredible event to visit for sure... and incredible to meet much interesting people... that make me envy... maybe one day so... :thumbsup:

...nice day for the team :)
Yes! I'm glad you got to see these Lolo. And I am trying desperately to convince Steph and Dimi to drag you to the next SIGGRAPH in San Diego! I can only imagine the fun that would be. :) :beer:

OPB Gunie: OPB Gunie? Obsessive Phoetus Builder? Overly Pedantic Babe? Online Phantom Barracuda?
See now, what you did? :D
Thanks for the photo link, I have tgo wait until I get a better connection since they are many and they are big :(
LOL! Yes! Online Phantom Barracuda is my favorite! :)



08 August 2006, 01:49 PM
Yes! I'm glad you got to see these Lolo. And I am trying desperately to convince Steph and Dimi to drag you to the next SIGGRAPH in San Diego! I can only imagine the fun that would be. :) :beer:
I can't imagine the beer festival... :scream: hahahaha :thumbsup:

08 August 2006, 01:53 PM
OPB Lolo: I can't imagine the beer festival... :scream: hahahaha :thumbsup:
I can! :scream: :scream: :scream:

08 August 2006, 01:55 PM
burp !!!.... :scream:

We can start to train sharks to drive us over the ocean ....

ps : Gunie , count on us to keep your thread alive

08 August 2006, 01:59 PM
ps : Gunie , count on us to keep your thread alive
of course... UPDATE... UPDATE... UPDATE :D


08 August 2006, 02:29 PM
Mouahaha! No need to update here - the thread seems very much alive anyway :D

Can I come to the beer party too? :rolleyes:

08 August 2006, 04:00 PM
Yeah !!! How great is that to meet the whole team at SIGGRAPH ....
Except , we will have to find a sort of code to meet you down there ... mmh , maybe the lady with the whip ? :curious: :D ....

08 August 2006, 08:29 AM
Morning team ... It's about time I got some action in this sleepy thread.
My intention for the fall is - practise modeling.
I'll jumpstart with this one

Made a really crude start in MAX and now I'm bringing it into ZB for detailing. I will try and make this one as accurate as possible so all suggestions are welcome.
Oh, and veins is a promise as usual ;)

08 August 2006, 10:24 AM
Good do see here some exercises... I'm not specialist but this feet seem sufficient like that, for a ZB detailing cession... I'm always very curious to see the nesxt step, ZB continue for me to be an E.T. software... stronger than me :wise:

09 September 2006, 05:26 AM
Hi Gunie,

It is great to see you back! :) I saw your suggestion in the other thread, did you want to get that going? You are more than welcome to!

Looking forward to seeing your updates, we have certainly missed you around here. :)



09 September 2006, 05:39 AM
Morning Gunie!

Ah, great to see some action here again!:bounce:
And a foot seems to be a good bodypart to practise some modeling, I'll watch with interest your max/zBrush workflow, like Lolo I've still my problems with zBrush...
And there's already the first question: You're not afraid of the tris in your basemesh? I've found zBrush don't like this:curious: (

Now let us see some foot action!:)

Have a nice day!


09 September 2006, 05:51 AM
Lolo - yes, I'm curious too... feels like I've forgot most of what I learned the last round. We'll see how it goes, thanks for your cheering :)

Becca - Hi there, thanks and good to see you again! The idea of making a thread with links for special topics came to me during my months with dial up connection... and since, thanks to you, this section is getting bigger and bigger I was hoping to find stuff easier. I know of Redhelerts fab work but I'm sure there are others I've missed?

Sabie - Yes, the tris worries me too - as soon as I loaded it into ZB I remembered. I have to redo the base mesh. I've always had a hard time with feet, so I thought it to be a good topic to start with. I feel soo rusty after the summer. How's your fat man doing?

So, it feels great to be back here - but the new addition of voting for useful posts worries me a bit. What if the statistic of ones posts become official? :eek:
Will there be an award for most useless spammer? :D

Have a great day all!

And here's ( a small scene I'm working on, TCells attacking a breast cancer cell, hope you like.

09 September 2006, 05:55 AM
tada !
Zbrush's sessions here !
Let's look what you are going to do with this foot !
Oh, Morning everyone, espacially you Gunnie ! ;)

09 September 2006, 09:37 AM
Hey Gilles! :)
Great to see you - and what's up? You got a new forum?
... french only - I can't believe I will not be able to spam there. Must take some french lessons :D

So, small update for today.
I've adjusted the basemesh to get rid of the tris (thanks Sabie) made some division and are now looking around for good references. For some reasons I find it hard to model with my foot on the desk.

09 September 2006, 12:07 PM
Morning pretty :)

... french only - I can't believe I will not be able to spam there. Must take some french lessons :D
Not french only, we're just waiting english talker... that's all, but we are ready :scream: (almost)

For some reasons I find it hard to model with my foot on the desk.
i'm so curious to discover a proof... does the cat can take a photo ? :D

Nice week end for you Gunie...


09 September 2006, 08:04 AM
Yeah baby , Gunie's back :bounce: *dances in the living room*

A foot !!! and a really great one !!! :applause:
If I would have just one teeny tiny suggestion , it would be that I find the nails a bit big , especially on the small toes , you know ? .... but I guess it's a according to people taste ( not that I would find feet tasteful but .... hum .... focus )

For some reasons I find it hard to model with my foot on the desk

I could pay to see that ...

but the new addition of voting for useful posts worries me a bit. What if the statistic of ones posts become official?

Yeah , I'm discovering that too , what is it exactly ? So now on , we have to vote for the useful or useless comment ever ? :curious:

Will there be an award for most useless spammer?

Let's start the competition again buddy ! :D

cheers ,


09 September 2006, 08:23 AM
That itchy foot is looking good, Gunilla!


09 September 2006, 08:25 AM
Hey Gilles! :)
Great to see you - and what's up? You got a new forum?
... french only - I can't believe I will not be able to spam there. Must take some french lessons :D

Hi Gunnie ! I'm cool, thanks !
No the forum is not entirely in french, all the category are in french and english. If you want to take a look and talk with us you can. Everyone in this forum is able to understand and write in english. Get logged in, it would make me happy ! ;)

09 September 2006, 08:31 AM
Lolo - haha, well, I'm not sure a photo of me in this position would be a good anatomy reference ... Don't try this at home! :D

Steph - arrgh, yes the nails ... I was trying to figure out how to work the crease function... not very successful so far. Hope next update will be better.
( not that I would find feet tasteful but .... hum .... focus )
OMG, I can't believe we're talking feet again! :D
And since you already been awarded for most useful spammer the useless price must be entirely mine, ...or? ;) (do you dare to take up that challenge?)

Cris - thank you! And how nice to see a new face around here :)

Gilles - I registred but it seems I can't log in, it only takes me to a blank page... have I been banned already? :surprised:curious:

Thanks all for the feedback - an update is coming soon (new nails)

09 September 2006, 09:56 AM
Update - I will now bring it into MAx too se if I can get the diplacements to work there.

09 September 2006, 04:41 AM
Morning Gunie...

That seem to be more of well started... details must certainly to be more marqued, but that works.
For me, just the under part of the foot seem to flat, and the right side of the foot too much angular, and the thumb seem to be too shorter, but maybe it's only due to the focal in zbrush... I must wait your 3dsmax snap to really see these details.

Good work and good day for you miss :thumbsup:

09 September 2006, 07:36 AM
Morning Gunie, Morning team!

- but the new addition of voting for useful posts worries me a bit.
Hmmm, don't know what you're talking about, I clearly missed something!?:eek:

Ah, you've been very busy here, nice clean mesh now and already a very good start:thumbsup: (and I can see veins...:bounce: )...I agree with Lolo about his crits, there's something looking strange on the right side, the former shot from the left side looks really good to me. So let's see an update soon!

Have a nice day!


09 September 2006, 05:42 AM
Morning :)

Laurent - thank you, and I agree - the side needs more volume as well as structure. The thumb toe is modelled with my own as reference... annoyingly pointing upwards, which makes it looks short in this angle. And I'm awaiting my Max snap too. I'm having the usual trouble with getting the displacement map to work :banghead:

Sabie - thanks, I managed to get rid of all tris except two, under the foot so I've left them there for now since I don't think it will matter for the end result.
Hmmm, don't know what you're talking about, I clearly missed something!?:eek:
Look at the lower right corner next to the quote button and you see a new one... for voting for useful post (does this info give me one now? :D)

I'm really fighting the displacement maps now but hope to have it sorted out today - my machine doesn't like the 32bit maps so I had reduce the size of it. I think I have to start 2d-ing instead... or get a new machine!

Good day to all.

09 September 2006, 05:49 AM
Hi Gunie, :)

I think these guys have stated good points, I would just say that the foot seems quite tall / and that you may want to compress it quite a bit vertically so that it doesn't have a swollen look. Additionally, you might want to lengthen the whole thing length wise to give the foot additional stretch (it currently appears a bit condensed). Looking forward to your updates!

Cheers, :)


09 September 2006, 07:02 AM
...the thumb toe is modelled with my own as reference...
and I know it's not easy to model with the foot one the graphic tablet :scream: ... good luck about the displacement, I'm just sorry to doesn't be able to help you on this point... :shrug:

Nice day anyway darling...

09 September 2006, 11:12 AM
Hey Gal Pal Gunie ! :scream: .... GPG ? :curious:

Well nothing to add from the guys already said ... So I guess this post don't deserve the "useful" thingy :banghead: ... But the new nails are fine now ... and you've done a great work with the veins (you do have practice in that area) ...

(do you dare to take up that challenge?)

well you know , me and the challenges ... that's a long love story .... :twisted:

Have great day



ps : only the thumb toe is yours ? what about the others ? have you just one toe on your feet ?

09 September 2006, 08:27 AM
Morning all - finally some updates here:

Becca - thanks for your always valuable advice! I think much of the shorted look could be ZBs ortho view, do you think it still look chumpy in the new Max renderer?

Lolo - Do you think it will be easier if I put up both feet? :D
Thank you for your support and always dear presence :)

Steph - thanks buddy! The veins come natural for me now ... my favourite detail (am I being weird?) :curious: The nails are no longer looking good, see below - but I hope to improve them in next stage...

So, I finally found a way to make the displacement work, almost the way I want... in this test I use two different verions of maps, one small 32 bits and one bigger 16bits, thanks Sabie for showing me how to make that work :thumbsup:
Not much difference so I will continue with the 16bit version - no color maps added yet and both feet look like their toes have been in some kind of chewing machine... with some luck I can fix that in the next step.
I still have the really low poly base mesh in Max, NURMS smoothed by 2 iterations.
Basic SSS shader attached, no tweaking made yet.

Have a good day!

09 September 2006, 08:56 AM
Double post.

09 September 2006, 08:58 AM
The feet look pretty good. The big toes are too big and the nails are too angular. As a result the big toe looks a bit swollen and the nails look like they could have fungus.They don't quite contour to the toes that well. Although if your intention is to do fungus (you did model dust mites afterall. ;-) ) than you did a great job!

09 September 2006, 12:01 PM
Of course that seem better with the both... the light, even if it's a bit dark give much to understand the shape...

I must agree with Nathan's comments, globally... but especially for perfect feet... and it's rarely the case, especially for people who stopped to be young :scream:

If I quit my shoes, I can saw something far of the perfection, if you know what I mean (while forgotten for the momentthe furry details :banghead: hahaha)

Seriously, even if it's not perfect at 100%, I can saw your progress with ZB... you give some very sweet and fine details... already much respect for that...

What's planed now ? bloodie-blue color on veins ? :D


09 September 2006, 02:01 PM
Looks cool, now some texture is missed.
come on girl, time to texture !

Just one crit, the inner Ankle on the left foot have a bump at the top of it. Looks strange, what do you think of that ?

09 September 2006, 07:45 PM
Well like the others , I do find these pretty great ... In realism terms ... In fact as far as I remember I think I don't have ever seen prefect feet like we us artists would picture it ... there's always something to crit on , weird for actual real feet ...

I would say maybe pull up the bone bump on the top of the foot a bit more and there you go ...

And don't worry I'm sure with textures they will be prettier ... and also why not pedicure ,an ankle tatoo , toe ring ... :scream:

keep your foot up GPG ...

cheers ,


09 September 2006, 05:40 AM
Morning Gunie!

Ah, this looks already very good, obviously you've found a way to make it work:thumbsup: !

Nathan pointed the problems, though I had to laugh when I read about feet with fungus:scream: seems you've already a forum wide reputation for weired themes:D .

So a little more work on the nails and then I'm curious to discover your texturing...nice veins btw:) ...


09 September 2006, 06:17 AM
Morning :)

Womball - ahh, yes - fungus was my thought too. In ZB it's not that heavy but I haven't been able to tweak the Max settings yet. Perhaps today ... on the other hand, yours and others comments have made me thinking of perhaps making something in that direction. Thanks :thumbsup:

Lolo - thanks honey, for defending the non-perfect feet ;) And I remember well the picture of your furry ones :D
And seriously, I don't think I have especially ugly feet, but they sure have a lot of irregularities - like the little toes bending sideways from wearing ladies shoes... and the bumps on the back of the heel from breaking in new shoes. You're absolutely right that feet that no longer are young is much shaped by what they've been through ... or been in :)

Gilles - "inner Ankle on the left foot have a bump" ...I'm not sure I get whet part you mean? There is a lot of smaller bumps on the top of the foot, is that it? Else it would perhaps be the bone? (

Steph - thanks, and it must been that I haven't found any refs for perfect feet ;) I hope to make them prettier textured...or maybe the opposite? :twisted:
Fungus, torn nail polish, small scars and wounds, cracking heels ... the typical "After a wild summer feet" perhaps? :D

Sabrina - Yes, thanks you method worked very well with MR too, with some tweakings. And as for my forum reputation... perhaps I have to live up to it? :D
We'll see how the first texture pass goes - hope to have an update later today.

Thanks guys for pushing me further, have a great day!

09 September 2006, 07:24 AM
hej gunilla

I like the pose of the feets. looks like the right is going to itch the left one :)

09 September 2006, 04:17 PM
hej Gunilla,
what's wrong with these feet? I think they're very good! They're good because of their imperfections... it's very detailed, there's also little grooves on toes nails. That's a good thing to do this with Zbrush, that's a good way to practice.
I can't help to remember that my first polygonal modeling was a foot - and that I tried to model veins in LP:D. At the time, I didn't know what was displacement map, nor Zbrush of course!

So, keep it up, looking forward texturing.:)

09 September 2006, 05:03 PM
Mona - hej där! Thank you - and itching might be a good idea :)

Sophie - Thanks! Ohh, modeling veins - that would be hard, I think displacement mapping has really made life easier. It's funny with feet, once you start looking at how they really look you discover all kinds of new details - amazing bodyparts :)

Today I spent 3 hours tecturing in ZB ... without saving the map and yes, of course it crashed. Ah well, I had to start from scratch.
Below is the first tests with it in MAX - I think some ( a lot) of tweaking will be needed in the SSS shader to make them look really good. And also, some nailpolish :)

Have a nice weekend!

09 September 2006, 05:08 PM

I think this is looking quite interesting - the thing I would point out at this point is that the toenails look a little bit diseased :D - removing the bits of black from the texturing and perhaps rounding out the toenails a bit more / making them more uniform might help. :)

Looking forward to your updates!



09 September 2006, 01:46 PM
Hello Gunie...

...of course, Beckie said the essential...

and finally, the most important is especially the nail polish needed, but you're always make progress with this work between ZB and Max... really visible, I must say BRAVO :)

Nice week-end for you :wavey:

09 September 2006, 06:48 PM
Beckie, Lolo - thanks! I've added some nailpolish and also reduced the bumpmap a bit. Also this renders doesn't use FG which makes them much less rough.
... maybe almost pretty now, huh?

09 September 2006, 07:04 PM
Gunilla...looking very snazzy there with the nail polish...and how nice to see short toes like mine for a change. Everyone always makes long toes and I began to feel my toes must be deformed. :(

Great work, Gunie!

09 September 2006, 07:15 PM
Heya Gunie,

A few pedestrian comments *coughs*: :D

Hope these help. :)



09 September 2006, 02:49 PM
And there's nothing to compare with the last version ... :eek:

I wouldn't say that pretty is the right word ... maybe healthy and also yummy ... :)

That's freakly impressive what you've done with the shader .

Rock on !

cheers ,


09 September 2006, 04:01 PM
Better, yes. The shader looks a bit plastic. Continue, you are on the good way ! :thumbsup:

09 September 2006, 05:52 AM
Morning Gunie...

as I can see with the Beckie's help... that seem near to the perfection... only minor modifications can give the final touch for the shape, so nice... very interesting to follow the progression...

...and welcome to the "short toes team" :scream:

09 September 2006, 05:55 AM
Morning Gunie and the team,

wow, a busy weekend for you and impressive to see what a little pedicure can do - not even a hint of fungus anymore:D !

But seriously, this is a stunning result for the short time you've been working on this model, I especially like the texturing, it seems you've really fun with it in zBrush:thumbsup: .
Some little tweaks for the shader and the lighting may be necessary, but I see no more points to crit...

Have a great start in the week!


09 September 2006, 06:09 AM
...and welcome to the "short toes team" :scream:

YOU are the Big short toe, yourself !

09 September 2006, 07:22 AM
YOU are the Big short toe, yourself !
hahaha... are you sure ?

(sorry for the freak show Gunie :scream: hahahaha)

09 September 2006, 02:23 PM
Cris - Sure I make short toes, short toes are pretty, right? :)
I've got thin feet with short toes myself so it feel kind of natural. thanks for cheering!

Beckie - Much thanks for the pedicure treatment! I've been afraid to exaggerate the bone knuckles to much but looking at your paintover I see I've been to timid. Hope you approve of the adjusted version below. Also tried to point the little toes more.

Steph - Yummy feet? Let's not get into that further ;) Thanks for your really nice compliments! I'm so glad you like the shader.

Gilles - I've been tweaking the shader a bit, hope it looks less plastic now - what do you think? Thanks for pointing in out, Mr. Master of ZB maps :)

Lolo - ahaha, now we have the base for a new company. "The Short Toe Society" :D
And from your photo I really think you will be the president, that is some really short toes you got :thumbsup:

Sabrina - thanks and yes, it was hard to let go of the fungus I admit ... :D
Thanks you, and I really like texturing in ZB - it's a bit tricky but being ablee to skip the UnWrapping part makes it worth it alone. Also the jumpin between ZB and Photoshop works quite well with the ZMapper plugin.

Lolo - that is such a crazy pic! Maybe I should use that for reference next time?
BTW, much of the skin textures comes from your collection, thanks a bunch!

Todays update then:

I'm quite satisfied with this one and since it's just suppose to be for practis I will now move on to other parts. Maybe hands? Building up the courage to go for a full figure here ... hmm

Have a great day all and thanks for your always great support!

09 September 2006, 04:53 PM

Really nice improvement, and thanks for taking the crits with such good cheer :) - I really think the ankles especially look a lot better, more rounded and distinct, and overall you have a really nice, natural look. Only small suggestion would be to make the small toe slightly smaller / more delicate, but overall hugely impressive job here - looking forward to more! :)



09 September 2006, 05:17 PM
Yes it looks better ! I think your bump is a bit too sharp and the specular don't fit to your bump. Try to create a specular from your bump... Just dark it a bit and contrast it too...

09 September 2006, 05:40 PM
Ouh yeah , better and better each time ... I say you could be really happy of the result , a lot better than any feet I ever made ...

I'm quite satisfied with this one and since it's just suppose to be for practis I will now move on to other parts. Maybe hands? Building up the courage to go for a full figure here ... hmm

a head ... please ... :) ...

cheers , GPG


09 September 2006, 06:53 PM
I think the bets way to see the form is giving the model a gray material with a little bit of shinyness. I might be wrong though, it's just what I use to look around my models and see if they're how I like the to be (they're never like that). Looks better after some retouching, but still requires some tweaks. So keep on working. Use tools that help you work faster with bigger forms. Tools like soft mod tool (in maya). Or exporting the model into zbrush and reshaping it there and the exporting it back. Just some thoughts. I hope it helps just a little bit.

Get some good refs or just look down to see a great ref :)

09 September 2006, 07:06 PM
...and welcome to the "short toes team" :scream:

YAY! short toes (and big, big toes ;)).

So nice to know there are others out there like me....I was having toe-envy...till NOW!

Feet look great, Gunie! Ankles, too.


09 September 2006, 05:45 AM
Lolo - that is such a crazy pic! Maybe I should use that for reference next time?
hmmmm... ? to try the shag'hair ? :scream:

BTW, much of the skin textures comes from your collection, thanks a bunch!
Good to hear that these textures can be usefull for friends...

Seriously, the latest update is very cute and sweet... the next step will be the perfection's step... good continuation...

Nice day for you Gunie :wavey:

09 September 2006, 06:27 AM
Morning Gunie!

Ah, great improvement with the last update, I'm really impressed now:thumbsup: ! I guess you've had all the crits and hints you need...and some additional disturbing references...:D to bring it to complete perfection, but because it's just an exercise maybe it's a good idea to go on with something else...

Can't wait to see what you're doing next, and if you make a full figure with the same fast improvement and quality I'll rarely come up from my knees:bowdown: (
So waiting curiously for the next body parts!

Have a great day!


09 September 2006, 07:13 AM
Morning all!

Beckie - aww, thanks much. I really appreciate your help and advice here!

Gilles - yes, I see what you mean... I'm not yet familiar with the specularity in the SSS shader. I did some tests though, let me know if you think it's an improvement :)

Steph - Head? ouhhh, that feels to big - got a risk of not finishing... you know what I mean? ;)

razz - Hi and thanks! Yes, that is a good approach and what I started with - most shaping have been made with Displacement in ZB. Unfortunately I got the verts messed up when trying to get the updated model back in ZB from Max so I've mede this final changes in Max with an edit poly modifier.
And sure, best refs are close by - could blame my shoes for how these feet turned out :D

Cris - thanks! And will probably do hands next ... strange enough I have very long fingers :D

Lolo - Ahhh, you wont let me stop here, will you? OK - one last render before moving on, see below :)

Sabie - thank you for the nice words ... really I had fun with this and I hope to continue with a series of body parts, not aiming for perfection but for practising workflow and speed.
Hope you like my last update - this will be the final footjob for now :)

Thank you all for your valuable comments, I've learned some new things from this. For instance this is the first time I use mr Omni lights... don't know why I haven't before since I think the result is rather good and it was easy to set up.

Have a great day!

09 September 2006, 10:14 AM
Looking even better ... well it wouldn't be that great if suddenly it looks not good ...
But you keep improving your work and now I think it looks pretty done ...

Next , hands ? alright ... it's like a puzzle , soon we're gonna have a full 3d version of Gunie ...

Head? ouhhh, that feels to big - got a risk of not finishing... you know what I mean?

I think I know .... great news ... :bounce:

09 September 2006, 06:08 AM
Morning Gunie!

Ah, your "final footjob":D is a good one, I really like the result, good work with lighting and shader too:thumbsup: ! If I ever come so far to texture my fat guy, I'll know who to ask for advice...

And bodyparts seem to be a perfect idea for practising max/zBrush workflow, can't wait to see the continuation!
Nice day for you!


09 September 2006, 06:23 AM
Yeah, better, no doubt !
If U use a spec map, the result is nice but maybe a bit to matte. More specularity may give some wet look, just a bit...

Another point, if you use a SSS, I think that for the moment you don't have that "skin" look with a bit of translucence. I disn't tell you to have the same look of an ear, but for the moment the feet look a bit dead. (maybe because they don't have any body attached to them...)
Take a look at the scale factor of your sss and decrease it.
Another point, to have the lights interact with the shader, your shadows must be in raytrace mode...
That's all !

09 September 2006, 07:54 AM
Morning Gunie... I divide the same advice than Gerry Pepperowsky about the matte aspect... that can change all when you fix that... any case, these feet comes to be sexy... I just imagine a simple pose, with the left one in this position, but just on the right foot... can you imagine my thought :scream: sensual :love:

09 September 2006, 10:12 AM
Morning :wavey:

Steph - thanks and yes, I think I have to move on - it's the modeling that is my first priority here. Just getting rid of the old phobia... hands are started today!

Sabie - thank you ... and it really is so easy to make diffuse maps in ZB ... I used some downloaded photos as base :blush: And then used Lolos skin to stich them together
( How weired did that sound!) :D

Gilles - Really great advice - I didn't know about the raytraced shadows... I was just so happy to get rid of the hard edge with the area shadows. Need to chack out the difference.
Also I haven't found out how to use a map for the level of specularity, just the color. I still have the same confusion with the SSS shader as with my fetuses.
I'll try some new versions for the hands.

Lolo - I understand well your idea of the sexy pose... I thought about something in that direction, maybe one foot itching the other? This would mean rigging the feet and that has to be for later... maybe a short animated foot-scratch could be fun :)

hope to have something up later then... have a nice day!

09 September 2006, 10:49 AM
... maybe a short animated foot-scratch could be fun
well... interesting to an animation, but less sexy for sure :scream:

09 September 2006, 04:40 PM
Gilles - Really great advice - I didn't know about the raytraced shadows... I was just so happy to get rid of the hard edge with the area shadows. Need to chack out the difference.

This is important. if you don't use any raytrace shadow, the effect of translucidity will not appear

Also I haven't found out how to use a map for the level of specularity, just the color. I still have the same confusion with the SSS shader as with my fetuses.

The slot for the level of specularity is called "overall weight"... there:

09 September 2006, 07:40 PM
Lolo - so, do you find these more sexy? ;)

Gilles - Oh yes - big difference, don't you think? Thank you :thumbsup:

To oily? To translucent?

And now on to next part, good night!

09 September 2006, 08:49 PM
Better in my opinion...
You welcome Gunnie ! ;)

09 September 2006, 05:40 AM
Morning Gunie... and these news pics are great.... sensitive and more... the material very better...
Oily ? why not... you can finish a pic with this pose... a vapor environment, a ground in pine wood... hot like a sauna :scream:

Well... I must go to take an another cold shower now :twisted:

09 September 2006, 07:45 AM

Gunie...those feet look better and better.


09 September 2006, 08:03 AM
LOL@Lolo!Oups... I'm again discover... :scream:

09 September 2006, 06:23 AM
Gilles, Lolo, Cris - thank you for your comments :)

Lolo - out from that shower yet? :D

So, I've been distracted for some days with other stuff but plan to move on with this now.
Also I've a new image in the gallery here ( it's another micro pic, this time bacteriophage and coli bacteria ... I can't believe I'm doing colons again! :D

Have a great day!

12 December 2006, 08:37 AM
So... this thread has been abandoned for some time now- it's about time I got something started here.
I have for some time thinking about doing a project about visualising the senses. The final goal would be an animated short and I will work on it on and off between other (hopefully payed) projects.
It's quite a big project but since all journeys have to start with a step... I started with an ear :)
This is my first ear ever, I roughly followed Antropus eartut for this and this is what I've got so far. C&C plus spam as always welcome :)

12 December 2006, 09:55 AM
Nice to hear about this animation project... that start very well with this ear... the shape appear very well done but seem a bit flat... maybe it's only due to the camera very front of the model... the learn much about senses with you will be certainly a great moment... I subscribe here again then... :scream: :love:

12 December 2006, 08:24 AM
Mmm, Lolo - thanks for being here :)
I agree the ear is a bit to flat - but I can't figure out what parts are wrong. Here's a wire and a front view wich clearly shows something's wrong. Help much appreciated with this.

I also started on the nose - do you think it needs more detail?

About the project, much research needs to be done since I want it to be as accurate as possible - I'm looking forward to find out more about how it works.

12 December 2006, 08:56 AM
A sunday good morning Gunie...

about the ear, for me the shape is good... it misses generally of thickness... and especially at the rear part... the ear have usually an little orientation... (less than an elephant :scream: )

The nose now... at first view it appear very good... maybe on the front view it appear narrow and even a little griped... but that exists if it's really a choice... in the side view, the end is very pointed, but of course, that exists too...

For the both, finally the most complicated is to know if that continue to match well when these elements will be together on a face.

I've already made this experience one day for a mini-challenge... where the goal was to made a complete eyes with personnality... mine was one of the better... many time after this challenge, I've needed to do a face for character... and to save time I've decided to re-used this eye... and the result was odd... impossible to manage this standalone eye with this new face.
I don't say that could be your case with these 2 parts already made, but it's certainly something to take care if you don't want to have this kind of problems in the future of the project... but of course, that also depend of your goal and how you will used them.

Maybe it's something do don't forget...

well dear... I wish you a good sunday :thumbsup:

12 December 2006, 09:05 AM
Heya Gunie , it's great to see that you're back in this one :)

I've read about your hardware limitations I ran through the same kind of problems , it's pretty tiring to always being stop by the machine.

Anyway , I'm all curious about your animated short project , but I do know that's starting really well for both the ear and the nose ...
Nothing appears that weird to me , the shape looks fine and the mesh clean ... so everything's working for the best to me .... I wouldn't worry if something appears a bit wrong , cause that's hard to figure out without the rest of the face .... When you will have every parts of the face (like a kit) you immediately will see what is wrong ...

So , keep hammering and I will try to follow your both projects here , and wish you the best for you professionnal ones.

cheers , :)


12 December 2006, 05:26 PM
Cool ! the ear looks nice to me.
About the nose, I think you could do better ! ;)

12 December 2006, 08:07 PM
Hi, Gunie!

Cool to see you working on these. I think that it would help you greatly to have some reference for what you are modeling at first. You might even take some photos of ears and noses and break it down into planes to see how the masses work and where they are. It's a practice I've seen recommended by some very good modelers.

I look forward to seeing more.


12 December 2006, 05:59 AM
Hi Gunilla! nice start on the model... I think you would do well to spend a little time studying the shapes of the earlobe flowing into and out of the ear.. I made a paint over of your ear render to stress a few points I thought worth mentioning.. hope it helps

12 December 2006, 07:26 AM
Good morning and big thanks for the good help!

Lolo - a sunday visit, you're spoiling me :) Some really good points there... I realise I have to bring this together as a whole face. I had some good refs for the nose, maybe I just pushed it to far. Anyway, I spent hours yesterday looking for some side and front refs - finally I found this girl
So, some changes on that nose to make it fit in her face needs to be made :D

Steph - hey there! About the hardware - mostly I think it's because I never learned how to optimize things. Mostly my scenes are so simple that I don't have to... it's one of the things on my list to learn. Great to have you around and now that you see my ref I think it's a real Zap-girl, no? :D

Gilles - haha, yes. I hope I can make a better nose than this, thanks! :)

Cris - you're totally right about the need for good references here - I only had a side view of the ear which is obvious now.,.. will have to find some more ones. Thanks for reminding me :)

anandpg - yes! That is great, thanks a lot, I see what you mean :thumbsup:

So, to continue. I've started to model a full face, roughly built on the ref girl. For the first time I try to model by pulling out edges instead of starting with a box and I must say it feels more comfortable. I realise I will need different veriosn of this model later, since each sense will require different levels of detailing for each face part.

Hopefully I have some polys up later today - thanks for being here. I couldn't wish for better help when it comes to modeling :love:

12 December 2006, 07:57 AM
Morning Gunie...

so here you are, already busy with some splendid new project, that seem to be a very interesting idea:thumbsup: ! And you have a good start, the most things coming to my mind are already said, especially about the need to built a whole face instead of seperated features...
Looking forward to follow your next steps!:)

Have a great start in the week!:wavey:


12 December 2006, 12:32 PM
Sabie - yes... I had to go away from the challenge for a while, I don't know but it's just not fun for the moment. This is very fun so far, so I plan to stay here for some days at least.
Glad to see you here :)

So - here is where I am right now... the eyes are giving me some real problems. I need to find a good eye modeling tut to learn from.
Anyway - so far I'm quite pleased about how this goes, what do you say?

12 December 2006, 02:09 PM
Hopefully you have a bigger image of that girl. Its kind of tiny for a reference. Your eyelids look flat right now. Trying modeling them with spheres behind them. That way you can pull out the shape better. Also I would get to modeling the cheeks and jaw quickly, since they are very tricky areas too. Your upper lip seems a bit thin and undefined. You might be able to fix this by closing the gap you have there. I would look for some references of the muscles in the facial area. The mouth is also hard to model correctly, especially the edges.

This woman has a very thin face, from what I can see. She looks rather angry too, but anyway, I would at first overdefine the skull of her face. You can always pull back the definition and when you texture her your going to lose some anyway. Texturing for some reason seems to soften exagerated structure.

12 December 2006, 02:46 PM
Hi Gunilla.. nice progress on the face... I agree with womball about the eye ball thing... and can we see the side view, as well?
btw, I never tried your method, but I always prefer to shape out the whole head before detailing the individual features... guess it works out either way, though :).

12 December 2006, 03:03 PM
Heya GPG !!

Your progress is just great with this ! , some points from there , the nostrils shape is kinda funny from the front , maybe they are a bit thin ... , about the eyes , maybe the eyelid wrinkle is a bit too strong ... but once again , it's hard to tell from one view and without the rest of the face .... so , I will patiently wait for the next step ... :)

now that you see my ref I think it's a real Zap-girl, no?

Funky boots ? .... or thong ? .... from the ref , hard to tell :scream:

cheers ,


12 December 2006, 03:27 PM
Hi Gunie dear,

My apologies for the late reply, it's great to see you and the team back here! :) I agree with anandpg's good comments about the ear. The only other thing I might point out is the nose, which I can do a little paintover for if you like - but it looks like you are progressing nicely, with these 3D experts around, you can't go wrong - keep up the good work! :)

12 December 2006, 05:43 PM
Nathan - sure, I have a bigger ref. This was the best free highres ref I could find and I will try to build some kind of generic female head from it to use for different stuff. Great advice about the sphere! It really didn't fit the previous face at all ... hope the next update works better. Thanks for coming by, good to see you here :thumbsup:

Anand - Uhu, I'm sure it would be better to do it your way... I already found it to be really hard with to many vertices to tweak - the topology looks strange too, but I'll try some more before I start it over. Side view will be in the update below, thanks for helping out :)

Steph - Oh yeah - nice catch with the thin nostrils... fixed now :scream:
And one thing is certain, you will never se a thong in this thread :D (more likely the lack of one) ;)

Beckie - Hey, how good to see you! From what I've seen you've been very busy lately with lots of fun things, go girl :thumbsup:
And later I would really appreciate some paintover, for the moment I can see so amny flaws in this ... don't feel as good about it as I did this morning but anyway... here's where I'm right now.
There is a distinct blockiness about her cheeks and chin :banghead:
Do I need more polys? less?

12 December 2006, 05:49 PM
Thanks Gunie! Just let me know if you want a paintover, but I'm sure your own judgement is best - btw my father saw your foot model in the ITS ART magazine feature ( (hope you saw it? yes?) and really liked your work especially. :)

12 December 2006, 05:56 PM
Hey - how cool! I didn't know - thanks for pointing me to it. And thank your father, nice words are always great to hear :)
And thank you for lettin me in the issue :love:

12 December 2006, 06:03 PM
Hehe, my pleasure! :) It's cool to see all your guys' cool work spotlighted - I'm hoping to do more. Additionally, you know, Patrice Leymarie of ITS ART is a very cool person and is open to any ideas about articles you yourself or any others might have - I approached Patrice with the idea, and it was no problem - so you might want to do an article yourself, it would be cool! :)

12 December 2006, 06:34 PM
The lower eyelid is angled outward more than you have it, resulting in less visible eye. Your probably going to need to add another edgeloop there to keep it smooth. Define the jawline a tad bit more, and I'm not sure about the line that runs from eye to the lips. Seems a bit straight, could be arced more I think. She has very interesting jowels.

Btw I will have to look up some more of those waxes! They are about the right color too, they look more alive than the Body worlds exhibit, color wise.

12 December 2006, 10:21 AM
Morning Gunie !

The face grows up real fast , and real nicely !
About the box cheek , from there , it's only due to the line in the middle of the cheek on the side view which should be rounder and there you go :) ...

Go go Gunie !

cheers ,


12 December 2006, 11:12 AM
Beckie - yeah, the mag looks really interesting, I'll definitely keep an eye on it for the future.
About me writing? hmm... I'n not so sure. Thank's for the suggestion anyways :)

Nathan - thanks! I'm not sure I understand fully ... the jowels? Had to look it up - do you mean on the side of her chin? Understand your point about the eye though - good, I'll change that right away :)

Steph - aaah, the lovely little cheerleader. How nice to see it again! :bounce:
thanks for the tip I'll try and round that loop better and maybe she will come one step closer to finished :thumbsup:

So, some actual paid work has landed on my doorstep :eek:
This means I will have very little time for this for a while, too bad, since I'm really enjoy it this far. I'll try to keep going in spare moments, see you later!

12 December 2006, 02:45 PM
Yep that's the jowels. Although they are not usually called that, unless they droop. They looked a bit puffy.

12 December 2006, 07:43 AM
Morning Gunie...

and again I'm a little late with my cheering here, you've already got the helpful comments but I'm really impressed to see your fast progress:thumbsup: ! With a little more time to tweak this will come along very good and I'm already curious to see the next update:) ...but of course payed work first, so I'm waiting patiently...

Nice day for you!


12 December 2006, 10:21 AM
Hi again Gunie...

I'm so glad and so proud for you... nice to discover your work in this issue... congrats dear :thumbsup:

I permit me to post the snap of that (I hope you're okay)... so good !

About the face.... congratulations too... that's I can say beautiful work... nothing much to crit... just maybe the part of chicks too much straight as Wombal said... nothing hard to modify... continue like that Gunie :applause:

02 February 2007, 08:49 AM
Good morning :)
This thread of mine have been slumbering for some time but I hope to bring it back to life in the upcoming weeks.
To start with, a small start for my senses project:
The hearing cells of the inner ears.

Just couldn't resist going into detail... but next I will try to finish that started head. Hope to see you around.

Lolo - a late reply, I'm so happy for your sweet congrats about my images in the mag. It came out really good, thanks Beckie!

02 February 2007, 02:51 PM
Such a gorgeous really seem to be topping yourself more and more. :) Great to see you back, and hoping to see more updates! :)

02 February 2007, 09:52 PM
Thanks Beckie! I love doing this kind of images and I'm glad if it shows.
Hope to have some more happening here soon. :)

02 February 2007, 10:36 PM
I love projects like this - they really capture my imagination. Of course I can't validate the accuracy of the image but t'is a beautiful image, lovely DOF, texturing and lots of intricate details that pull you in. If you wanted to go for a more 'audience friendly' image I suppose the colours could be made more vibrant - brighter pinks/reds with subtle glows to add to those subsurface scattering effects - but! I like the realistic palette you've gone with - gives the image real credibility.

Lovely facial study too - I could only hope to be as good as you are. Hope to see more of your senses project soon :)

02 February 2007, 01:35 PM
Small update on my head - I think I've layed out the structure for it now. The skull shape looks strange I think, will try and find some good refs for it before next update + add the ears.

thek - hi! Some really nice things you say, thanks! :)
And as for pinkish colorset - true, that is mostly what is preffered. That's why I'm testing other options for my personal project, more moody and less ordinary is what I hope to achieve.

02 February 2007, 09:28 AM
Morning Gunie...
héhé... it's a good news you restart here... more you continue...

In first, the latest finished pic is great... I adore... the "cellules ciliées" are wonderfull... do you remember mine in the movie, a bit more "sausages" :scream:
Yours are very credible... more "real"... a bit disturbing and frightening... that work very well... congrats for this realization, is it made for a job ?

Now the face... that start very well for me, good base even if I've the same feeling than you about the skull... the top part appear a bit too flat, maybe too square, that could exists... but that seem a stranger morphology comparing with the front view who appear very thin...
As each time, is always very hard to give the good advices when "all pieces" are not already in place... as ears :D

I'm waiting this remaining part impatiently...

...have a nice day miss :wavey:

02 February 2007, 09:56 AM
Morning Lolo :)

Glad you like "mes cileés" and yes, I've tried to make the scene mysterious and thrilling. It's for my own project - the planned animation of the senses (almost as huge as your own project) :D
I remember your movie, but not so well, I'd love to see it again - could you send me the link?

As for my girl... she is more finished now, even got ears! Let me know what you think - still a bit boxy I think but I don't know how to improve that... for now, I think this may be ok, I will bring her into ZBrush to see what happens there.

02 February 2007, 11:37 AM
And a late 'Good Morning' from me !

I've already seen and commented the hearing cells in the 3d-gallery, so you know how much I like it!:thumbsup:
And great to see you continue here with your project, the latest version of the head looks fine so far, I only see the same problem that I always have with the fact that most of the reference models are not bald:D , so you have to guess about the head shape...for me it works to overpaint the hair with an outline of the shape, perhaps with an overlayed picture of a skull.
Maybe your head needs a little more volume in the rear part and its to flat on the top...and in the front view it appears very small, at least if you try to have a more "average" face... Waiting curiously for the next steps!:)

Nice day for you!


02 February 2007, 03:16 PM
Hey Gunilla... Great progress on your head model... I just did some pushin' and pullin' on your model in p'shop.. trying to hit what you might be aiming at... mainly the shape of the head and neck, position of the ear and stuff like that... hope you dont mind...:)

02 February 2007, 08:13 AM
Sabie - haha, yeah - you're right about the bald ref thing. Yesterday I tried searching for "bald woman" on google and came up with nothing... I'm not going to say what I found searching for "shaved woman" :eek::banghead:
Thanks a lot for your suggestions! I've always found finding the right size for the skull difficult - it's so easy to make it to small so perhaps I've pushed it in the wrong direction - we'll see.

Anand - wow! Thanks a lot for this, and sure - it really makes a big difference! I've pushed her a bit in that direction and she looks much better now :thumbsup:

Anyone have a good solution for making hair? I've tried several versions - but none of them came out weel so far. I'm thinking geometry would be the best in this case since I will use her in the animation later.

Have a good day and thanks for your support!

02 February 2007, 09:04 AM
Heya Gunie,

Anand's paintover is great, can't really add much to that! Good to see your new work and I'm looking forward to updates. :)

02 February 2007, 10:14 AM
Nothing to crit about the paint over.. of course, that could change all... just now waiting your 3d version... :) héhé...

kisses to you all... Gunie, Sabie and Beckie (I profit :scream: )

02 February 2007, 11:26 AM
Heya Gunie !! :bounce:

Really great to see you back in this !!
Anandpg's paintover is great and illustrate perfectly the crits I could make about your model so .... nothing to add from me .

About the hair , you can use the Hair&Fur plug from Max which I think it's pretty easy to set up , plus that's a dynamic solution so the motion is really nice .... otherwise you can also make plans with opacity maps to create groups of hairs and then animate those with dynamics mods or bones .... let me know which one you prefer , maybe I could give you some tips (maybe) with that .

Can't wait to see more of this .

Have a great weekend and Hi to the whole team

cheers ,


02 February 2007, 05:01 PM
Beckie - good to see you and the ol' team around again :) Hope you like the next update - it's not as beautiful as Anands overpaint but I believe it's better.

Lolo - well, here's an update. And another opportunity to come by and kiss us all again ;)

Steph - weee :bounce: Where are you hiding these days... I so miss drooling over your wardrobe - ahh, those boots, that jewellry ...:love:
I've spent the day with Hair&Fur and it doesn't make me happy at all. I think the version with planes may work better... or perhaps sculpting in polys :shrug:
I'm still not sure how I want to have her, but I think some semireal style would work best. Something quite simple but still nice looking. Aiming for photoreal can become a nightmare to follow through.

Nice weekend to you all and here's a small update

02 February 2007, 01:37 PM
And now with some hair...

02 February 2007, 04:46 PM
Hiya Gunie,

Nice work so far - one thing I notice is that the bridge of the nose is perhaps a little broad / flat? It depends on whether you are trying to make this look like someone specific or not I suppose. :) The outer ridge of the ear seems a bit thin...again these are all really subjective far it looks like you're on the right track. :)

02 February 2007, 08:56 AM
Morning Gunie and the team!

Ah, what a difference now:thumbsup: ! The head shape is much better and of course the hair is already doing a lot - seems to be a good solution and I can well imagine that you're not happy with hair&fur of max:rolleyes: ...looking forward to see the next steps soon!

Have a great start in the week!


02 February 2007, 07:39 AM
Beckie - totally right about both observations. Thanks :)
The nose thing is because I discovered the face was to thin... and instead of adjusting the cheekline I moved the mirror a bit. Looking at it closer today I realised it hadn't been a good idea, both the nose and the lips had to be scaled towards the centre. Hope she looks better now.

Sabie - Yup, I'm glad to have skipped the hair&fur idea - but yesterdays experience of unwrapping the hair wasn't so fun either. What a terrible mesh!
I think this will be it for a while - I'm not sure what style I will go for yet so I will now move on with trying to make a decent model of the inner ear.

Have a good day!

A small update below.

02 February 2007, 11:28 PM
Hey Gunilla, this is one amazing thread. I've just been through the whole thing and was delighted to see a lot of cool stuff. Great to see you inspired to take this on to new places

02 February 2007, 06:23 AM
Hey Mark! Good to see you here in my "home" thread :)
Having a running thread for WIPs is great - you should get one! Or do you have one already?
It would be fun to follow your creations of all that cool stuff you do.

There will be no update here today since I'm leaving town for some days. Yesterday was spent with modelling the inner ear - really tricky... A render of that will be up when I return.

Wishing everyone a good week.

02 February 2007, 10:09 PM
Heya Gunie !! :wavey:

A really great improvement of your model and the hair makes a big difference :thumbsup:
Can't wait for more .... inner ear ? why are your projects always so unpredicable ?
Have a great time

cheers ,


02 February 2007, 09:34 AM
Having a running thread for WIPs is great - you should get one! Or do you have one already?
It would be fun to follow your creations of all that cool stuff you do.
Thanks heaps for the encouragement. I might start one up one day. Got a desk full of other things keeping me busy at the moment though.

It sounds a bit odd to say this, but good luck with your inner ear :)

02 February 2007, 08:50 AM
Steph - Ahhh, I'm so glad you like the progress... coming from "the sweet girl champ" it's a real compliment :)

.... inner ear ? why are your projects always so unpredicable ?

Seriously, would you really like to have it any other way? :D

Mark - I know what you mean ... I will keep on pushing you anyway, this is fun!

And now, a bit delayed since I was knocked out by the flu for a week. The beginning of the inner ear

I could never have guessed this would be so difficult to do, most refs I've found are all from almost the same angle so a lot of guessing had to be done... any comments on peculiarities in the structure are most welcome.

I'm doing the little hearing bones right now, and once I figure out how they look I will do some kind of render.

have a great day!

02 February 2007, 09:29 PM
Nice start on the inner ear, Gunilla. They're an odd-looking beast. I sympathise with you about the lack of picture reference. Since there is so little reference from some angles then you could of course invent your own inner-ear feature like an arm hanging off it or something and then see if it gets copied into other medical illustrations from now on. That's an old trick with map makers, who put in some obscure extra landmark so that when people copy their maps they get found out. No seriously, I admire your attention to accuracy and detail.

02 February 2007, 06:17 AM
Heya Gunie, :) there seem to be a lot of refs on Google (, but then, I'm not the one trying to model from them :D - Wikipedia ( has good diagrams, here's a little animation off of the Wiki page:

There's a good diagram here:

Hope this helps! :)

02 February 2007, 08:47 AM
Morning Gunie ,

Gotta say I know squat about inner anatomy ... so I guess I won't be really helpful for now on ... instead , I'm gonna sit here and try to learn something ( so you have to name each part you're doing ... and I'm getting notes ) :wise:

Anyway the start is really interesting , but I'm really curious to discover the rest ...

cheers ,


02 February 2007, 08:56 AM
Mark - haha, don't tempt me! Seriously, after doing this one, I got an idea of how nice it would look like in an underwater scene... together with seashells, as in "What's wrong with this picture"? Going to try to stay on track with though. Some new obscure elements added below. as I said, this is really fun :)

Beckie - Wow, thanks! That anim is great! I hadn't seen that one. Thanks for the assistance!

Steph - OK, what I've added here is apart from the cochlea, Mallus, Incus and Stapes plus the auditory and vestibular nerves. Next will be the surrounding!
Thanks for hanging around, buddy :)

Strange also, what's been most fun with this so far is modeling and unwrapping (am I getting sick or something?) :D

02 February 2007, 08:59 AM
Morning Gunie!

Oh, the flu...I hope you're better now!

Your inner ear looks fine to me, but this means nothing because I look at the same references:shrug: ...
Mark's comment is funny and very good...When I have a task like this I usually have a visit at the medical library of the university, just to avoid the things he mentioned:D ...

Have a nice weekend!


02 February 2007, 11:57 AM
what's been most fun with this so far is modeling and unwrapping

There you go !!! I knew you were a modeling person ... :bounce:

Ok , still a weird thing to me but according to your refs , noting to crit ... just can't wait to see it textured ...

cheers ,


02 February 2007, 01:36 PM
No problem, and this is very cool looking! :) Not being an inner ear expert, hehe, I can't really critique the accuracy, but I would wager that there are only a few laymen who can :) - here are some more ref's if you still need them:


02 February 2007, 02:56 PM
Sabie - thanks, I'm fully recovered by now. University library is a good idea - but I'm not sure ut helps in this case. I've found zillions of refs and they are all from almost the same angle... Another problem when it comes to medical, internal anatomy refs is that the scales differs so much. Usually images are made to show the function rather than the exact anatomy. In this case most images seems to exaggerate the size of the hearing bones to make them more distinguish. Also I have a feeling that the angles of the elements are "lined up" to show things as clear as possible :shrug:
Do you do a lot of medical tasks? :)

Steph - A modeling person?! Well, not yet but may become - I like it better for each try. Much thanks to all splendid support I get :thumbsup:

Beckie - Thanks! Grey's anatomy - really nice illustrations. Me likes :)

So, I think this is is for the basic modeling, scene. I will probably bring in the backdrop in ZB for adding bone pieces and other gore.

Have a great weekend and thanks for your interest.

02 February 2007, 09:17 AM
Cool! More updates :) Excellent to see the ear coming together like that. Looks like all it needs is some loud music and things will start vibrating. I'm comparing it with an illustration in one of my reference books at the moment and it all looks good. Keep up the great work!

02 February 2007, 03:04 PM
Looking great Gunie! :) Looks like you've worked things out just fine despite a lack of great reference - very cool stuff!

02 February 2007, 09:56 AM
Aaahh ... now it looks just great !
I really see now what thing is going on ... and it's gonna be great for sure ...

Can't wait to see more ...

w00t , :)


02 February 2007, 06:29 AM
Hey... monrning Gunie...

I see your work grow well... I've a good news... I find the movie you ask me... I must convert it this morning, and I'll send you the link by PM today...

...promised !

Nice day for you dear.


02 February 2007, 07:01 AM
Do You Hear Me ?

02 February 2007, 07:27 AM
Do You Hear Me ? LOL:D

Morning Gunie and the team!

Yes, things are coming together now with the last update, looks pretty solid to me:thumbsup: !
I've usually no anatomy related things, more the technical or abstract science stuff - but also for this I feel sometimes the need to have more specific information than the web provides. Especially for your project I thought of computed tomography or magnetic resonance pictures of the skull, also good for measuring the real dimensions of the interesting parts:wise: ...but this may be way to much effort for a personal project and of course you're doing already very well with your existing references. So I'm just waiting to see more of this fascinating journey:) .

Have a good start in the week!


02 February 2007, 08:41 AM
Mark - thanks! And yes, some loud music will be added later - the plan is to animate soundwaves being transferred and understood by the system. Not sure how I'm going to show the understanding part though :)

Beckie - thanks! And I hope I have - I willtry to find a volounteering doctor to check things later before starting to animate it.

Steph - thank you for w00ting, this particular ear like the sound of w00t especially much :D

Lolo - aah, thanks! That is most helpful :)

Gilles - haha!I can hear you but I can't see you very well! :D

Sabie - MR imagery of the skull is a great idea! I see if I can dig some up later today. I'm taking an evening class at med school right now. The class is in basic Physiology, really interesting! We have lectures each Monday night so a visit to the library there will fit the plan nicely. Thanks for the good idea!
Do you have any of your Science stuff online? It would be really nice seeing some. :)

02 February 2007, 10:39 AM
Mark - thanks! And yes, some loud music will be added later - the plan is to animate soundwaves being transferred and understood by the system. Not sure how I'm going to show the understanding part though :)
Wow! That's mighty impressive. I've been thinking and the only other artist I can remember who did ear work was Vincent Van Gogh but that's not the kind of ear work I would recommend. Your approach is much better

02 February 2007, 02:39 PM
Wow! That's mighty impressive. I've been thinking and the only other artist I can remember who did ear work was Vincent Van Gogh but that's not the kind of ear work I would recommend. Your approach is much better

"Ambitious artist in desperate search for reference"? :D
Don't think I'm going to get that far. Still have some questions for some areas but I don't think they will be visible so I leave it for now.

And a close up

The backdrop is not final since I haven't decided what way I want to bring it. I'm also going to add some particles and stuff later. Let me know what you think.

02 February 2007, 08:38 PM
Superb update Gunilla! The colours look beautiful and very strong. I think I can see what you mean about the background. In its current form it contrasts beautifully and seems to bring the ear and inner ear structures forward so that they are beautifully defined, but the deep red background does seem to suggest a muscle-tissue structure which is not accurate. Since the background would really only be a flat 2D cross-section surface then perhaps it does not require modeling. You could do it quickly in Photoshop. But whatever you choose to do, I hope you stay with something like the colours you have now because they look fantastic.

02 February 2007, 10:39 PM
Gunie, that looks beautiful so far. :) The only thing I can find to critique, aesthetically speaking, is that the auditory tube ( looks to have almost no depth - other than that, things are looking great! :)

02 February 2007, 08:56 AM
Morning Gunie!

Great progress here with your ear project and the textured version looks really good - the details are coming out nicely:thumbsup: !
I'm taking an evening class at med school right now. The class is in basic Physiology, really interesting! Do you have any of your Science stuff online? It would be really nice seeing some. That's interesting indeed, especially with your focus on this kind of visualisation and I admire your ambition to have a more insight look...I'm often too lazy to dig deeper in certain projects:blush: .
Do you have any of your Science stuff online? I never even thought to put this online, the stuff is certainly as thrilling as a chemistry book:scream: , the things on your website have much more visual impact for me...but I look if I can find something more interesting in older files.

And now I'm really curious to see how you animate the hearing process...Do you know this BBC-site (, there's a nice schematic overview...

Nice day for you!


02 February 2007, 09:04 AM
Love the ear. Especially the outerpart, great material too.

02 February 2007, 10:34 AM
Mark - exactly! - those where my thoughts too. I will try and make a combination of crossection and simple geometry and still try to keep it from interfering to much with the foreground parts. I could use more specified lighting to dim the background parts. Thanks for the input!

Beckie - Another good observation, thanks! Also that link shows a good scale relationship. I think my guesses where quite accurate but it's good to have it comfirmed :)

Sabie - well, I'm usually quite lazy too. But recently I've discovered, that the more I know about the underlying functions the more I can bring in a project at an early stage (leading to more fun for me when doing the work!) It has already proven useful, Mondays lecture was on the cell and its functions and yesterday I got an assignment of making some illustrations covering exactly that! It felt soo good to be able to understand the topic right away and to be able to suggest possible visual solutions :)
Yes, please go didding in your old files - it's really interesting to see how others solve things!

As for the animation, Our Lolo has made such a good one - I'm sure I will be heavily inspired by that when deciding on the storyline. :love:

Nathan - thank you! I've tried a slightly different approach for the texturing here, using visible brush strokes for both coloring and normal mapping. I think it works quite well and perhaps I make it less subtle for the next update.

Busy with other stuff today but always happy for your visits here, have a great day!

03 March 2007, 08:37 AM
How great !!

The flesh texture is really beautiful (as long as it's still human flesh) ... :eek:
The point of view is great to understand the mechanism you're illustrating .
Can't wait to see it vibrating with a heavy loud music ...

So w00t ...

chears , :D


03 March 2007, 01:40 PM
Steph - thanks! ... and can't wait to see it animated either :) W000t! :D

I've reaplaced the backdrop with something a bit more realsitic... not as pretty as the previous perhaps, but it's a start.
Let me know what you think... better?

And the close up...

03 March 2007, 02:08 PM
Of course it's more realistic like that, but as you imagine, the previous was more attractive... maybe you could keep the latest while modifying a little the tones to have something more like the first ? :wise:

03 March 2007, 02:36 PM
Hmm, I agree that I liked the previous background much better...there is something a little smeary looking about the present one, and it seems not to integrate as much with the foreground, or perhaps it's not distinct enough tonally as Lolo suggested to show off the main attraction / the foreground - just mho. :)

03 March 2007, 08:53 AM
This is tricky. I love the scientific integrity of your stuff, Gunilla. You can do science-related images which are beautiful and also accurate. The thing is, someone could see the wonderful accuracy of your inner-ear detail and then assume that the rest of the image can be trusted for scientific accuracy too.

But I like the clever suggestion for a compromise coming from Lemog - to go for some accuracy in your background but duo-tone it into your original background colours

03 March 2007, 08:14 AM
Morning Gunie!

Not much to add to Mark's comment, exactly my thoughts:wise: ...some texturing/tonal adjustments to the new background seem to be a good solution!

Have a good start in the week!:)


03 March 2007, 08:37 AM
Lolo - you're right (as usual) ... hope you like the next version, I tried it to be a bit more like a mix of the two. thanks!

Beckie - Yep, looking at it now I really don't like it either. Smeary and greasy. Trying to find a better balance, hope you like this one better. :)

Mark - that is exactly the problem I'm facing here - wanting it to be both accurate and beautiful. And how do one portray a slice of brain and bones as pretty? :D
I think this one looks better, but it slides towards the fleshy look again. Perhaps it could work anyway?

Sabie - Morning! :)
OK - here's the update now. For some reason I spent almost all day trying to render this - I had to go through all settings since the rendering halted. On the to do list for this year: definitely learn more about optimizing!

03 March 2007, 08:44 AM
Ooh, definitely like this bkgrd better! I think everything is really red, the red bkgrd behind the head is a bit confusing spatially - maybe play with that / give it a bit of dark texture to help it recede a bit? Just a humble suggestion. :)

Looking good Gunie!

03 March 2007, 11:27 PM
that is exactly the problem I'm facing here - wanting it to be both accurate and beautiful. And how do one portray a slice of brain and bones as pretty? :D
Good question, but I reckon you've done it! Well done! I think the use of colour is what's satisfying the 'pretty' requirement - in a medical-illustration kind of way :) Besides, beauty's in the eye of the beholder - if that inner-ear could see itself now I'm sure it'd be delighted

03 March 2007, 10:19 AM
Beckie - good! Sometimes it takes some tweaking to get it right. I did some tests with the background, making it lighter - I will leave it for now since it will be better decided when I come to the animating stage. Thanks for pointing it out! :)

Mark - thank you! And as for having the inner ear seeing it self I dunno ... it will all be easier when I come to the inner eye though :D

As mentioned earlier the rendertimes for this gone absolutely crazy, so I have to simplify things for the animation. This was mainly made as a first test for the over all style and I will continue with it once I'll figure out the best storyline.
Next will be the sense of smell - I already have a story lined up for that one, made some years ago, and that will be the first clip in the planned series (gosh, that sounds ambitious!) :eek:

This week I'm stuck with some other work so no updates until that's finished.

thanks for feedback and interest :)

03 March 2007, 09:07 AM
Morning dear, nice to heat that the inner story is continuing... that "smell" good :scream:

(gosh, that sounds ambitious!)
yep... but also the interest :thumbsup:

Nice week for you :love:

03 March 2007, 06:28 AM
I couldn't resist trying to turn my earjob into a Still Life. All that lacks are some grapes, maybe a kidney? :D

Hope you like,

Lolo - thanks for cheering! This is going real slow now... almost snail speed.
Next, something "smelly" then - have a nice day!

03 March 2007, 06:53 AM
Morning Gunie... very good...

I open the Cg box... and what I discover... whaouw... what a surprise... a gift :wise: ... ear for me :scream: hahahaha... the week start good for me... I hope the same for you (about the week, not about the ear :D hahaha...)


03 March 2007, 01:24 AM
Ouch! There's enough 3D accuracy in that image to suggest it was real. I guess that's not your final choice for a background eh? I've heard of people filing away their 3D model libraries but this definitely gives a new meaning to that. Fun image, Gunilla

03 March 2007, 05:07 PM
I missed this post somehow, but that is looking awesome! I think you and I definitely share the same taste in spooky images :) - and that's a good thing. :D

Great stuff, looking forward to more of course!

03 March 2007, 07:10 PM
I missed this post somehow, but that is looking awesome! I think you and I definitely share the same taste in spooky images :) - and that's a good thing.

Nice to hear this...

mouahah :)

03 March 2007, 06:17 AM
Lolo - ahaha, in need for a new ear, is that so? Happy New Ear to you then :D

Mark - yeah, I was thinking about this more and more turning inte a freaky collection of organs - and why not give them a proper display? :) In the end I may have a enough to fill a virtual museum.... Ms. Elams Wax Cabinet!

Beckie - thanks! And yes, I think we do... again, this is inspired by old time wax models. Also I've always been a huge fan of Vanitas Still Lifes, and this could probably count as such :)

Gilles - :D

Have a good week and thanks for having the guts to follow this :D

03 March 2007, 07:40 AM
Good morning!

I've just put together a small demoreel, with some of the stuff made in this thread.
I'd love your feedback at

Hope you like it :)

03 March 2007, 08:04 AM
Hello girl, you welcome, seem normal to me...

New stuff, a demoreel, I will check that.

Be back to give you my opinion in few minutes...

05 May 2007, 05:43 AM
And look who's been snailing now, huh?

I haven't completely abandoned my project even if some things have gotten in the way lately. Some work, some sun and most important - gardening season :)

As I mentioned, the first sense that I will try and visualise in animation is the sense of smell.
So, for starter I need something smelly.

I did a draft texture for this using some photos - but I'm not happy with that realistic style... I will try and make something more stylised to fit in with the rest.

A lot to do, but every journey starts with a cod ... ehh, that wasn't quite right :D

05 May 2007, 06:24 AM
wow wow wow !

Gunilla in the place ! Nice to see this thread updated !
Seems to be fishing time !?

05 May 2007, 06:51 AM
Morning Gunie...

mmmmh... of course good choice for smell... for ones who like hard emotions :scream:

The global shape of this cod seem good, but I must agree this you, the aspect of him don't have the Gunilla's look... I'm sure you must find easily something more stylized, more graphic... maybe only while playing with PS filters...

...have a nice day Gunie :)

05 May 2007, 07:32 AM
Awesome looking fish, Gunilla. Super real looking and I really like it. I suppose if the fish doesn't match your style you could always look to your garden to model a nice flower to suggest smell.

Mind you, fish is funnier.

And it would be great to see what happens when Gunilla puts her mind to creating some special kind of fish :)

05 May 2007, 09:06 AM
Yay !! morning Gunie ! :)

Great looking fish , I can easily picture it swimming and eating the little worm of my fishing hook. I would say the only thing missing is the specular on the scaly skin ...

What is gonna be the next step already ?

Have great day

cheers ,


05 May 2007, 09:18 AM
Gilles - Yup, Gone Fishing it is :D

Lolo - ahaha, you know me well - hard emotions :D
Glad you like the shape, I'm quite happy with it too. It's not often I model from refs like this and it was fun making it. Hope you like the new texture test better :)

Mark - hmm, great minds think alike. A flower is the second object I plan to use to describe different smells. Maybe a rose if I can make one. Right now I have more dandelions to use as refs :banghead:
Glad you like the cod.

Steph - sorry to say this but the fish will be dead :(
So, the next step was to kill him and put him on the floor.
Thanks for cheering, comrade snail!

So, small update with a new set of textures. I will now move over to the flower since this will be a very short fly by only I don't need to spend to much time on detailing right now.
Sorry this is moving so slowly but I've been a bit to swamped lately to move fast.

Have a great start for the week and thanks for stopping by,

05 May 2007, 05:05 PM
Hoho, a dead fish! But what is a dead fish guts? :D

05 May 2007, 06:38 AM
Morning Gunie,

uhhh, this fish looks dead indeed:thumbsup: ...and I have the feeling that i can almost smell something unpleasant...some fat flies around him would make the impression complete. But what is a dead fish guts? Sometimes I think you both should make a team project...I'm sure the result will follow me in my nightmares:D ....

Good to see you back here on your project, looking forward to see the next update!

Have a great start in the week!


05 May 2007, 09:11 AM
Beckie - Fishguts! Now, that would be something!
I've just ordered Neville Pages Rendering Flesh DVD - with hopes that it will give me some good hints for improving in the guts department. Stay tuned for later tests :)

Sabie - Thanks for cheering, and I hope I can give it a sense of smelliness... flies are a really good idea, thanks!

It will probably be some time before I update, on Friday I'm off on a short vacation. Walking in the mountains of Mallorca :bounce:
Hope to get back with some new energy ... badly needed at this time.

05 May 2007, 09:27 AM
Will the fish make squeaky noises?

05 May 2007, 07:44 AM
Morning Gunie...

yep, that seem better like that, but that need again more work I think... the surface is too much smooth... we couldn't feel the wet skin with scales wich catch more the light... maybe a more contrasted bump map could be sufficient... also more contrasted bump for tail and fins...
...that not much work and that could give much...

I wish you a nice day... glad to be here with you :beer:

05 May 2007, 08:20 AM
I saw something more like that... not much changes...

05 May 2007, 09:14 AM
Morning Gunie ! :)

ooooohhh , the poor little fishy is dead ... :cry:

I think the little thing is way too cute to be really smelly ...
Although I agree with Lolo about the specular paintover ... especially if it's not on the floor for a long time I guess it's still wet ...

Can't wait to see where you want to go with it :)

cheers ,


05 May 2007, 11:07 PM
Ahah! Now this is the kind of thing that keeps bringing me back to cgtalk - a serious discussion on smelly fish and fish guts. That's just too compelling a subject to stay out of.

The fish is dead (long live the fish) That's very wise because live fish actually don't smell very much. For a fish to really assault the nostrils it has to be dead for a while, preferably after lying stranded on the beach in the sun. Its eyes will be foggy-white and not clear and sparkly. A few scales might be missing. It will have the scale bumpiness that Lemog describes but I don't think it will be so wet looking any more. You could even say that after enough time a plant could grow out of it and there's your flower, but that would be silly and this is a serious forum.

So where's this post heading? That's something I should have worked out before I started typing. I suppose my suggestion is to dull the eyes a bit and maybe introduce a bump like Lemog describes but not quite as sparkly. Whatever the outcome, this is a fine piece of work. I like it, and the cat thinks it's one of its favourites.

02 February 2008, 11:21 AM
ehhmm... I quite embarrased to get back to this after such long absence. But here goes.
I'm once more in the process of modeling a woman to be used in my animation - I started from scratch with a new head (reused the old ears) and have come to this stage - any feedback is welcome.

And buddies - I can't believe I didn't continue the thrilling conversation about the smell of dead fish! No worries, the smelly fish will be back :twisted:

02 February 2008, 12:16 PM
I am a regular reader of your
very cool work!! keep it up! :thumbsup:

02 February 2008, 04:57 PM

Great to see you back. :) Hey I think this is a nice start. One little thing I noticed was the ear, which seems a little low and maybe a little far back along the width of the head - I think typically the top of the ear will align with the brow, and the base of the ear will align with the bottom of the nose.

Looking forward to more! :)

03 March 2008, 10:07 PM
Hey it's good to see you back. At this point I won't offer any crits because I'd be showing my ignorance, so I'll attempt to nod wisely at the expert commentary from Rebecca

03 March 2008, 11:36 PM
hi Gunilla, nice modeling, but I hope you don't mind me offering some suggestions? One of the things I noticed about this kind of edge flow is it makes the head "boxy", and the face a little too flat and boxy. Looks like you used this kind of edge flow before, some pages back. And noticed another similar thing between this model and the other is that in profile the head seems to be gravitating to a forehead that's pushed out a little too much, too flat and high. In profile view, I'm noticing the lips are pretty flat, what can give a feminine quality is to have the skin between the top lip and nose curve out a little, which will bring the lips out.
A couple links of a topology that has a nice flow for faces, nevermind my crap in the body topology thread tho.
and Steven had posted a base mesh, it's very light in polys.
hope that helps

03 March 2008, 07:56 AM
yzdyzdyzdyzd1124 - hey and thanks!

Beckie - ahh yes, the dropping ear again - it really is a problem that there is so few bald female refs to be found on the net! And thanks for catching that, already corrected now and will be better in the next update.

Mark - How nice to see you! Please, immidiately fill me in on your latest adventures :)

DivineRAiN - oh, this is great. Just the kind of information I've been looking for!
And thanks for the crits, my last attempt used a ref with a girl with a rather flat face and this time I picked another to help avoid it. But you're right, especially the forehead seems flat to me too. My loops have gone all wrong in this one, I tried to make it without following a tutorial but it seems the topology didn't came out to well. The topology thread will be a useful read indeed.
Yesterday I tried to continue with the first draft for her body and ended up with some really shapeless forms, most discouraging.
My intetions for today are to study Stevens basemesh and to start rework the head.
It's not going fast but I will get there, eventually.

Thanks for your feedback and support :)

03 March 2008, 08:00 AM
So, Ive made some updates to my head below.

I'm still not happy with it - especially the chin area is giving me some problems - any suggestions?
The start for the body had to be thrown away, I will start a new one as soon as I'm happy with the head. Modeling is tough.

03 March 2008, 07:33 PM
Just try variations on the chin till you're happy with it, broader, sharper etc. Save out an image of 4 or 5 different directions, then pick the one you want.

More pressing is the forehead, there should be some notation for the brow ridges, having that be a big soft curve might be making your facial detail feel more off then it really is. Also work in some sterno mastoids. Establish some muscles for the neck and this will feel a lot more solid and grounded.

Seems to be quite solid, keep at it :)

03 March 2008, 07:15 AM
Hey Gunie, I feel like the forehead might be better if it sloped back a little bit, in fact the whole front axis of the face might feel more comfortable if it sloped back from chin to forehead back more toward the right in that first side view. :)

03 March 2008, 01:16 PM
Hi Gunilla,
Your head model is coming along pretty well! What jumps out at me when looking at the 3/4 view is that hte cheek bone is really pointy there. I'd push that back a bit and also make that side of the face come out more towards the lower lip. Also, there should be a smoother transition of the cheek(under the eye-below the eye"bags" part) and the nose. Run your fingers over this part of your face and you'll see what i mean. It slopes doward diagonally if you're looking at the face from the front. Eh..maybe I'm a bit confusing here, if you want I can do a quick paint over to explain it better, let me know :)

09 September 2008, 02:37 PM
A belated thanks guys for your comments.

So, this thread has been abandonded for much to long now... I will try and make it more vivid. My plans for the fall is, as usual to become better at modeling and also to finally try to get comfortable in ZBrush.
As mentioned early in this thread I'm a real fan of anatomical waxes, so the idea is to make something in that area.
Inspiration, as always the collection from La Specola - which I still haven't visited.

And this guy...

Amazing look in his eyes isn't it?

So, base mesh in Max and rest in ZB.

09 September 2008, 04:05 PM
Gunie! Great pics. You will love this blog if you do not already have it bookmarked:

Lots of nice guts! :)


09 September 2008, 08:14 PM
Héhé.... dear Gunie... you here after this long time ! it's fantastic...
...especially if you want to continue the learning cession with ZB...
always THE challenge... so good... and waxes pieces certainly the good motivation...

is it the choice of first model already made ?

Well... the wip now :bounce:

09 September 2008, 11:56 AM
Great, Gunie is back!:bounce:

I really missed you around and it's about time to see more guts in this thread!
Beautiful pictures you have there, and you haven't seen 'La Specola' yet? You will love it, not only the anatomical waxes, they have also a nice collection of sinister medical instruments and other stuff like this...Definitely put Florence on your list of places to visit!

So now I'm looking forward to see a start here, I'm also still struggling with the 'perfect' workflow between Max and zBrush, so it will be especially interesting to see your approach! :)

Have a great start in the week - and it's so good to have you back around!


09 September 2008, 01:46 PM
Beckie - yeah, I'm glad you share my weakness for this kind of imagery and the morbid anatomy blog is on my visitlist - great stuff!
I could swallow the whole one for refs :)

Lolo - hi there mon cher, Yep, my first model is already chosen - much to handsome to resist ;)
Base mesh below.

Sabie - Hi, how good to see you! I've sure missed this place and it feels good to hear my abscence have been noticed :bounce:
I'm fighting an inflammation of my right shoulder, the main reason for my minimal activity lately.... anyway, I hope to share my findings of practical workflow with you - once I discover them.

So, here's a very simple mesh to start the handsome one with. One thing that often gives me trouble is ZB making tris out of quads when importing a more detailed mesh - so I will start this one very lowpoly so see if it works better.
thanks friends for the warm welcome back :)

09 September 2008, 09:06 PM
I'm fighting an inflammation of my right shoulder, the main reason for my minimal activity lately....
Oooh... sad news... I know that well :blush:
even if it's not the same thing, but inflammation of the rachis, and sciatica... argh...

Effectively, the starting mesh appear very light... but with ZB... I can't give councils... even if of course, I've already saw some incredible results with meshes very poor and basics... :buttrock:
...I'm curious...

09 September 2008, 04:40 AM
Hi Gunilla! Glad to see you back! Sorry about the shoulder.. get well soon! :)

Well, actually, ZB doesn't convert quads to tris.. but it will convert polys with more than 4 sides to tris.

..and here is a small tip for basemesh- ZBrush will give you much better sculpting quality if you keep your polys fairly squarish. For example, your mesh has "long" polygons on the neck. could divide them horizontally a few times till they are almost squares. Here's a fairly good example(I think :D ): right click and save (

Eager to see the progress on this! :bounce:

btw, have you had a look at this? :)

09 September 2008, 04:46 AM
Morning Gunie,

oh, bad thing with the shoulder:sad:, I hope it will heal completely soon ...

Great to see you've started with the "handsome one":D .
A very light mesh indeed, let's see what you make of it...but you should really add a few edgeloops to the neck, zbrush loves quads, but also evenly sized polys:wise:

Let's see more soon!


edit: oh, Anand was faster than me - and with the better explanation;)

10 October 2008, 08:38 AM
Gunie !! *runs around the desk*

Of course you're gonna push this place to an other guts level.
Great pics , no doubts it's gonna really cool following your progress.

Anand and Sabie got my toughts way before my snailing post so I guess I only have my cheerleader dance for you .

Sorry to hear about your shoulder but I'm sure it's gonna get better especially with all the whip strikes you're gonna deal in the following weeks .

Have a great week end

cheers ,


10 October 2008, 08:53 AM
A quick post and cheering from me too. Good luck with that shoulder. It sounds like a nuisance :(
- Mark

10 October 2008, 02:12 PM
Lolo - thanks for sympathies for my shoulder ... and sure, pain of he joints are so annoying, especially since it's impossible not using them :(
Perhaps this base will be much to plain, I suppose there's only one way to find out, huh?

Anand - Hi and thanks! And you're right about ZB, my earlier test where made with a previous version of Max, and appearantly it was the max obj exporter that where to blame! Now, with the latest maxversion this doesn't happen, thankfully. Great tip for the basemesh, I hadn't noticed that ZB prefers squares... picky, picky :D
Very nice base mesh - thanks. I will learn a lot from study it and the link to Ryans thread. Wonderful work!

Sabie - thanks. I have indeed added some loops for the nec now, and hopefully this will give me a better starting point. We'll see what happens once I start playing...
And "handsome one" - well, not as handsome as your model for sure ;)

Steph - Hah! I should never have mentioned the shoulder - but you must know, I'm almost as strong with my left :D
Have a good one yourself - with lots of updates, OK?

Mark - Howdy and thanks for cheering! So, why don't you start a sketchthread of your own here? It would be fun to see what you would come up with.

So, it's strange that everytime I plan to spend some time with a personal project work just jumps at me. Must be the best magic act of marketing I've had.
But, at least I've added some loops to my man and checked to see him imported safely into ZB. Here he iss with several subdivs added, no sculpting made at all so far but hope to get started during the weekend.

It's good to be back here :)

10 October 2008, 03:30 PM
A bit longer than anticipated, but here's the next version now. The base mesh did indeed cause me some problems, just as Anand mentioned, the polys that are not square but more romboidish made it really tricky to sculpt. I suppose a better planning of the base mesh considering both the polys and the right flow for the edges will make it a lot easier.
So, not very alike the new Specolaman. I may redo him all from start or else I start a new one now.

10 October 2008, 05:57 PM
Hi Gunilla, these anatomical waxes are a great source of inspiration. I'm curious how this will turn out!

10 October 2008, 08:57 AM
Strangely the last version appear more flat ! The first seem very well started for me...

I'm a bit ashamed to doesn't be able to help you with ZB...

But the only thing I could say, considering many mesh I saw for ZB had often very similar size of polygons... not much polygons, only a good average of size and very linear edges... :hmm:

I push to continue to work in the good way... I know it's your universe... if you have the motivation to learn ZB... I'm sure you obtain your goal Gunie...

Bon Courage :beer: (maybe the beer could be a good help in ZB... :D )

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