View Full Version : Wired: Cops Dig Anti-Game Crusader (and its NOT even about Jack Thompson

12 December 2005, 01:14 PM
>>Link<< (,69840-0.html?tw=wn_tophead_1)

No definitive link has ever been discovered showing violent video games cause violent behavior. Even so, thousands of law-enforcement officers on our streets are being told otherwise.

Meet Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, one of law enforcement's most in-demand speakers and trainers.

Grossman, an ex-Army Ranger and West Point psychology professor, has been on the road 300 days a year since 2001, speaking mostly to law-enforcement departments and academies. He's booked solid through late 2006.

One of Grossman's key messages ( is that "violent media and video games are the largest single threat to modern civilization."

Grossman claims to be one of the "world's foremost experts in the field of human aggression and the roots of violence and violent crime."

He is founder and director of the Killology Research Group, a police and military consultancy, and since the Columbine massacre, he's become one of the game industry's most fervent critics.

He's written several high-profile books, including On Killing, which is required reading at the FBI Academy and some of the nation's top military schools. He also wrote Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill: A Call to Action Against TV, Movie and Video Game Violence.

Grossman has testified before Congress and numerous state legislatures. He was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize for On Killing and was cited by President Clinton during a national address.

According to Grossman, first-person shooters are "murder simulators" that not only desensitize players from the psychological ramifications of killing, but also teach the mechanics of killing.

more in article...

12 December 2005, 01:20 PM
I must agree that a certain small percentage of our society is too easily influenced. It's a shame that people's ideas are so black and white on how to solve this problem.

A. Wright
12 December 2005, 08:09 PM
At least he blames movies and tv as well. It's hipocritical when they just blame games. Maybe I should be worried, if i listen to what they're saying, then i'm just days away from going on a killing spree.

12 December 2005, 08:51 PM
This always comes up and down. People make atomic bombs and kill a million people. Then they justify it with nuclear reactors. But think about this, if there is good in it, good people will find it and if there is bad in it, some twisted burp will find that.

The only reason that I got the chance to work as a game programmer is because of my interest in games. My mom didn't like the idea that I was too interested in games in my school years. But all that payed off. So I don't like the idea that people blame games and movies for their behavior. Maybe they should look into their family problems first before blaming others. Oh! I guess that is just too hard work. You can't blame on drugs because your kid is taking it. This is like saying I pay my taxes and the cops didn't prevent my child from taking drugs.

12 December 2005, 09:30 PM
just another guy who can't take responsibility for his kids....

Frank Lake
12 December 2005, 09:32 PM

This guy is a total and complete hypocrite and one of the worst types too! The type that makes money off of it, and still complains about it. Kinda like 99% of the news channels out there.

After just reading the little burb that got quoted I thought the name sounded familiar. Low, I turn and look at my book shelve and there sits a war SF novel he co-penned!! A quick look inside the cover and I find that he co-penned 2 other SF war novels aswell.

Now what was that about violent media? :wip:

12 December 2005, 10:17 PM
Maybe the guy really believes in what he is doing.

I myself have taken a joypad in frustration and smashed it around the livingroom - maybe I was out of control and over the line! :argh:

12 December 2005, 10:37 PM
Yeah, first it was dangerous books (e.g. darvin, then jewish literature in the 3rd reich etc), then the movies, then Rock Music then TV, now it is video games.
I think that some people just cant keep up with modern times and are scared by anything new (with new I mean things that were not arround in their childhood).

12 December 2005, 10:48 PM
Re: E_Moelzer.

"and are scared by anything new"

I've never seen you on this forum before - LOOK OUT EVERYONE - HE'LL KILL US ALL! :scream:

12 December 2005, 10:49 PM
wonder if he ever thinks about the fact the his comments cause more anger and agression in the video game community than the games themselves...what a tool

12 December 2005, 12:02 AM
People have been killing each other since we could pick up a blunt stone from the ground...

12 December 2005, 07:57 AM
I forget where this is taken from, but anyways. People are always saying this is such a violent generation. Does anyone remember the civil war? Americans killing eachother. Over 600,000. People have always murdered, and always will. Video games and movies just give murderers more creative ideas.

12 December 2005, 09:23 AM
...Does anyone remember the civil war?...

I really don't think there is much comparison between the violence of the US Civil War and the violence of criminals today. For the first time in history, humanity is globally barraged with media. I believe the level of learned knowledge of young people today is collectively higher than it has ever been. We live in a world unlike any other time in history. We don't have a history of this kind of experience on what is happening to people today. While I am certain that many take the extremes, I think it is foolish to ignore the possibilities and repercussions of the world we live in. Many of the positive factors are easily seen, children generally read at younger ages, nearly the entire wealth of human knowledge is at their fingertips via the internet, and yet are they really any more intelligent? Have you ever thought about what the old saying 'Don't grow up too quick' means. I believe there is a huge innocence lost on the youths of today. Only time will tell what true impact this is having. There is a lot of truth in the Spiderman saying 'With great power comes great responsibility'. Knowledge is power and children are typically irresponsible. Educating them in violence and other such things surely have consequences. You do not have to agree with what these people are saying, but discounting it altogether is foolish to me.

12 December 2005, 11:47 AM
i don't know what is wrong with these people. Where do they see that violence is increasing? I think that if we look back in history, this times when we live the crime is at the lowest level... what about middle age when you head was cut off for nothing :scream:

12 December 2005, 03:31 PM
i don't know what is wrong with these people. Where do they see that violence is increasing? I think that if we look back in history, this times when we live the crime is at the lowest level... what about middle age when you head was cut off for nothing :scream:

We aren't there... yet. Just look at Darfur. :sad:

12 December 2005, 04:32 AM
David Grossman is truely of the military mindset, attacking an easy target, waving his diploma in front of him like a guidon and saying it makes him right. Violent crime in this country is born of forces reaching far outside the realm of psychology; Grossman's area of "expertise." The state of the US education system, poverty, prolific access to weapons (including assault weapons), and a host of other factors are involved.

Psychology cannot examine the issue of violent crime alone. Lack of education is a factor that leads to poverty. Poverty leads to desparation. Greater poverty leads to greater desparation. Desparation leads to crime. And when the news stations and the government terrorizes you into a state of constant paranoia... it reminds me of Howard Beale's speech from the film "Network:"

...we sit watching our TVs while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be!

It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out any more. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, "Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.

12 December 2005, 04:40 AM
I wonder what they used to blame violence on before video games, TV, or even electricity was invented? Because human violence has been around since our species has and even before i'm sure. Infact compared to lots of times in our history we live in one of the most peaceful.

12 December 2005, 07:23 AM
Theyre gonna have to ban the bible.. ya know, cause of the Crusade and everything...

12 December 2005, 08:13 AM
"Remember, these kids are being rewarded for pulling the trigger and killing people," Hiller said. Hiller said some officers search for violent video games at crime scenes to present as evidence at trial.

This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Every time they find a video game they will go "SEE, We told you so". All the times they don't find video games they will just forget.

They could as well look for boxer briefs, stating that those kind of briefs cause violent behaviour. And when they find them, they go "SEE, We told you so. Boxers cause violence"

Why not search for guns? I'm guessing kids with guns are more likely to cause violence than kids with video games.

12 December 2005, 08:30 AM
There are a lot of idiots in this world. It's depressing. :hmm:

12 December 2005, 01:05 AM
There are a lot of idiots in this world. It's depressing. :hmm:

For some reason it is the idots who ends up making the money. May it is because they found a billion other idiots to cheat off. What a world!

12 December 2005, 02:15 AM
At the end of the game, the kings and the pawns all end up in the same box. As they say. :D

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