View Full Version : ‡‡‡‡‡ The Bone Zone ‡‡‡‡‡

Pages : [1] 2

10 October 2005, 04:23 PM
Decided to come over and play in Rebecca's sandbox <> will start participating and posting here as well as the other forums I post in <> Rebecca has and excellent forum thread going here and you are all very fortunate

10 October 2005, 04:59 PM

Welcome to the Forum! I am excited that you will be joining us here on the Anatomy Forum...I think everyone here will greatly benefit from your generosity and expertise. :)



10 October 2005, 05:09 PM
Bone zone?
I smell bone references and drawings coming.:thumbsup:

11 November 2005, 01:55 AM
Hi DoctorBone, mentler? :)

Now this place is going to be in for shock. :P



11 November 2005, 02:01 AM
Oooooh. king! :beer:
Can't wait!

11 November 2005, 04:52 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome

I am going to post this little project here <> I am calling it my daily dozen <> these are little structural thumbnails that I do mosty from memory but sometimes from life as well.

I am going to try to do a dozen or so of these on a daily basis for as long as can keep it going <> I am working on a lot of poses that I need work on as well as my usually demo doodles

Here are the first few days efforts <> just getting warmed up

11 November 2005, 08:09 AM

Awesome! :cool: Great to see your work here. :) This work is quite refreshing to see...looking forward to much more! :)



11 November 2005, 02:12 PM
goddamn,ur everywhere lol.

do u have a dvd or book out bone?

11 November 2005, 02:36 PM
Thanks Rebecca and NOOB no DVD not done yet reshooting some stuff

Daily dose of thumbnails and short poses <> mixing them up <> life, ref, and imagination

Also doing a lot larger will post when I get them shot <> will try to make the rounds and give some crits when I get some time <> this seems to be a pretty interesting forum and group of artists

11 November 2005, 05:50 PM
Ahhh mr. Mentler nice to see you here :) when I have seen the title of this thread I have immediately though its you :scream:. Nice sketches you have here well as usual ... and btw thanks for your wise advices on the tsofa site ... :thumbsup: I still study it ...

- Slux

11 November 2005, 05:57 PM

Nice to see more work! :thumbsup: ~ Sort of furtively looking here as I'm at work. ;) I've yet to post on TSOFA, but will try to do so soon! Thank you for the invite!

Cheers, :)


11 November 2005, 10:26 PM
RK € thanks for taking the time to take a look

Slux € trying to get Rebecca to share her knowledge at SoFA as well

Moving forward and discovering that working from life has the disadvantage of limited movement <> this is something that I have always known but now I am accepting the challenge of creating the life or emotion in poses that do not seem to have it.

11 November 2005, 11:42 PM

Hey there, I noticed that you went to Washington Univ. in St. Louis for a while ~ heh, so did I. :) It's where I started college ~ stayed there for about 1 1/2 years. We had the worst models, but I made some great friends there. :) Nothing like Midwestern friendliness. ;)

I know what you mean, then, about having to really push to get things out of certain poses. Luckily, at Art Center, where I finished my undergrad degree, there were some terrific models ~ I don't remember having any bad ones there ~ but top notch models are indeed hard to come by.

What is your more finished work like? I think I've only come across a few pieces on the web. Would definitely be interested in seeing some of your finished work as well as your sketches. :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)


11 November 2005, 04:09 AM
Two of the most famous figure masters in one thread.. this is dangerous. hehe.. :) not that we are complaining.

11 November 2005, 04:17 AM
bumskee, LOL! :scream: Thank're very generous. ;)

Cheers, :)


11 November 2005, 12:43 PM
I just posted this critique on another thread <> I think it is important stuff (at least in my book)
so I am posting it here as well <> incidently this is what all the little studies are all about.

You have to seize the moment so to speak <> models move unless you are working with cadavers <> try to work the whole pose as much as possible, particularly in the beginning stages <> establish the construction and position of things <> in the Atelier sense this would be called the lay-in <> however this is where I differ considerably <> block in the aspect (rotation) of the head and decide where you want the features to be (I often have the model hold a pose a minute or two longer until I get the area I am concerned with established <> then I live with this position when the model comes back from her bread.

I know I say this a great deal, but since it is a very key issue it bares repeating, in t long pose do not start right into you main efforts, do a few thumbnails, move around the model and view the pose from all angles, do thumbnails or small compositional sketches from different angles.

In a 10 minute pose do this for a couple of minutes ‡ a 20 minute pose for 4 or 5 minutes ‡ and so on

When the pose is going to be for and hour I recommend 15 or 20 minutes of understanding to pose exercises.

If the pose is going to last for several hours I try not to nail down any aspects of the pose during the first 20 or 30 minute set.

There are 2 main reasons for doing this

1) The better you understand the pose the better you will draw it

2) It gives the model a chance to settle into a pose ‡ poses change a great deal during the first several minutes and a great deal more between the first setting and the second.
Models depending on their level of experience all start off a little ambitious then they sink into the pose ‡ the second setting they are far less ambitious and pretty get into a different pose ‡ it will change a little each set and each day if it is a multi day event.

Never start on the head or features early in a pose because the head is balance on the top of the body and as the body moves so does the head ‡ I other words the head moves the most.

Once the model gets relaxed into a pose nail the aspect (rotation) and weight of the torso. Then the legs and feet <> the weight baring leg first in a standing pose <> then the arms and hands <> you are mainly interested in the placement of the feet and the placement and gesture of the hands at this point <> then it is time to deal with the head and features.

Once you have determined the aspects of the pose they become the pose the pose in front of you will change the pose on the page is what you should be concerned with now.

Draw what you see, but know what you see, then draw what you know you see.

Do not chase the pose i. e. Once you have established the head position and the placement of the features stay with it <> once you have laid in the hands stay with that position <> use the model as a reference not a reality <> the reality of course is that the model in going to move.

Movement is good by the way <> it is the essence of life and in my book movement equates with emotion <> I feel it is the artist job to find the movement not eliminate it.

On Portrait studies the same considerations apply do a few sketches to determine the tilt and rotation of the head, how you want to position it on the page, note the unique structural factors i.e. broad forehead, high cheekbones, weak chin, heavy brow, deep set eye sockets, the general shape of the head and hair.

These are the main features and not the eyes, mouth, nose and ears in that order.

We recognize someone we know from a distance long before we see their eyes.

So deal with the structural features before you worry about the sensory features.

Again do not chase the pose <> once you have established the shape and aspect of the head and have your construction lines in place draw the features to fit that position and construction.

I often change parts of the pose or the whole pose during this process so it really helps to learn to draw from memory.

Bumskee and RK thanks again

11 November 2005, 02:07 PM

Thanks for these thoughts! Definitely insightful...look forward to more of your posts and comments. :wavey:



11 November 2005, 05:37 PM
Excellent point to remember. Thanks for posting them.

" I often change parts of the pose or the whole pose during this process so it really helps to learn to draw from memory."

That reminds of when in my life drawing for trad. animation class, the model would pose, we would draw that pose and then we would be required to do 360 turnaround sketches of that initial sketch. It was a good exercise. I'll see if I can find one and post it so you can see what I'm talking about.

Thanks again.

11 November 2005, 06:42 PM
Oh happy happy happy joy joy. Both Becca and Mister Mentler here! Wonderful.

11 November 2005, 06:49 PM
Good to see you here, Queenie! :wavey:



11 November 2005, 09:15 PM
Great advice about drawings and models.

I like a lot your drawings. They are so fresh.
Specially informations what thay have, becouse this is not a usually presentation of drawing skill. It's more like dairy, like information which illustrate results of very hard research of human proportion in motion.
Human proportion is very important part of anatomy and certainly first lesson in introduction with bones. We have in history many great masters who have theyown princip of human proportion like: Phidias (Fidia), LYSIPPOS (Lisip), Leonardo, Michelangelo, Direr...etc. It sounds like I'm talking about ninja turtles. :scream:

So, my question is:

Does your research include kinematic anatomy, and if does, what's your experience about those things, and would you talking here about that?
Thanks in advance,

Andreja Vuckovic
Instructor of
art anatomy and 3d character modeling in
SFCT "Chiron", Belgrade, Serbia & Montenegro

11 November 2005, 07:47 PM
andreja <> thank you for your comments <> not involved with kinetic anatomy at this time <> working on DVD on proportion based on the neurocranio cube

Queensoul <> Yah I like this forum and RK's works

Vidar3d <> Yes I dirty little trick that I have played on my students during memory exercises is to have the model pose for a minute then get down and have the students draw what they saw.
I do this for about 10 poses.
Then I have the model pose for 2 minutes and of course my students think they got it down at this point <> however when the model gets down I ask to draw the pose 180% or how it would look if they had been standing on the other side of the room.

Rebecca <> Thank you with your support

For those of you who may not know I am doing a dozen or some thumbnails (tiny little buggers)
daily for as long as I can endure <> tackling poses that are a little more challenging and trying to eliminate or at least improve in some of the areas that I are needed.

11 November 2005, 02:34 PM

Out of curiosity, do you teach full time in Dallas? You must have permanent access to lifedrawing sessions, if not. :)

Great to see these new studies! This will be a great thread to follow. :)



11 November 2005, 12:55 AM
I currently have models available 5 or 6 times a week <> however the majority of what I do is from imagination <> 4 or 5 years ago I started learning how to draw the figure in almost any position without a model <> now I am trying to finish the task by working on the poses that seem to be a little more complex.

I am getting to the point where I can do some from the model then turn and change the model into other more active poses. My memory drawings and lfe drawings and drawings from reference have pretty much crossed over to the point that they all look pretty much from the same source which now is mainly memory or a combination of beginning a pose from life or ref and changing it to become more lively.

Most of what I have been doing on this thread is from memory!

11 November 2005, 07:19 AM
Your thread very interesting and useful-here is very clear for understanding how is the right of body perespective on the move. And drawings that you are showing here are better and better one after another. I feel that I so become bored for normal skech papare,pencil or charcoal... And your thread is stimulus to remember about traditional drawing.MY RESPECT.

11 November 2005, 12:59 PM
This is something I posted a couple of weeks ago on SoFA which is a concept that I have developed and am concentrating on while doing these drawing from the most part without a model (a few are from my life sessions)

I use the bony landmarks of the body as my road map around the figure and I have found that there are certain landmarks that are key to getting where I want to go <> I am referring to these as
The Core 4 (c) mentler 2005

The are the pit of the neck <> the bottom of the sternum (not including the xiphoid process) <>
The bottom of the tenth rib and the pelvic triangle (the pelvic points to the pubic bone in the front <> the pelvic points to the bottom of the sternum in back)

Along with positioning this landmarks I noticed that the bottom of the tenth ribs and the top of the pelvic triangle forms a trapezoid or trapezium which tells me a great deal about the tilts twists and turns of the pose.

Incidentally trapezoid and trapezium have opposite meanings in the US and The United Kingdom

Here a page on notes I did for myself.

Inky2 <> Thank you for you kind feedback

11 November 2005, 12:37 AM
Nice work, Michael! :)

Have you ever seen the work of Harry Carmean? I had his last class, and basically there is a whole school of drawing built up around his style. I'm personally a huge fan, and have loved his work for years. Definitely check him out! :)

Landmarks are well~documented ~ it's quite cool that you've formulated them in your own way! Definitely enjoying watching as this thread takes shape. :)

Cheers, :)


11 November 2005, 12:41 PM
Landmarks or guideposts have been around for sometime <> I picked it up frim Hale and I am sure he got if from Bridgman or Richer <> I am just repackaging it to work with my program <> the thing that I am emphasising are the core landmarks and really investigating not just where they are in terms of position but also their aspect in space <> my method has 26 landmarks 13 core landmarks (7 front and 5 back) these are dependent on the spine (core)

the other 13 landmarks that I teach are the 13 extended landmarks which move independent of the spine ( the 12 joints and the attachment of the shoulder girdle at the sternum)

This makes a nice little package and corresponds very nicely with the number of letter in the alphabet as well <> I find this useful at times

There are many aspects of my program that make it unique <> but of course nothing is really new, just new way at looking at the same things <> I do think the concept of the torso trapizium is a fairly interesting adaptation as it has seemed to have helped eliminated the problem of elongatated torsos with many of my students <> except of course me and mine is a matter of choice.

The bottoms of the tenth ribs and the pelvic points both front and back provide me with a great deal of information about the orientation of a pose.

Of course as always this info is copyrighted (c) mentler 2005

Did some 30 second gestures in class lastnight will post them and the extended constructioned I am going to do this morning so all can see what I am referring to by filling up the memory bank.

Very familiar with Harry <> have several students who had him as an instructor at Art Center as well <> did you know the Lorser was one of Bridgman's students?

11 November 2005, 01:53 PM
Wow, that bit about Lorser Feitelson is a gem...indeed I did not know that! :) That's really amazing...I was (and am) just a huge fan of that whole school. It's funny, Carmean was a classical singer for a time, and studied at the Ecole des Beaux Arts, which is completely enviable! He then came back to Art Center to teach. I personally far prefer his drawings to his paintings (as is the case with most of those familiar with his work).

Yep, everything old is new again, but it is cool to see it 'remixed', as it were. :) It's new to each new generation, and everyone needs a good guide for these great concepts of the past. :)

It would be nice to attend one of your drawing sessions. I'm sure it would be fun! :) Dallas is pretty far, though. ;)



11 November 2005, 11:11 PM
Wish I had found out about your workshop in time would have loved it!!

Here is more on skeletal Landmarks the way I teach it <<>> I apologize to all who may have already seen this on SoFA (c) copyright mentler 2005

11 November 2005, 11:12 PM

That's so sweet of you to say! :) I don't think you need it. ;)



11 November 2005, 02:20 PM
This is what I am doing during class ‡‡‡‡‡ 30 to 45 second thumbnails like the (first page) <> I then flesh them out, so to speak, without reference to see what areas I need to work on ‡‡‡‡‡ there are usually a bunch of em' so I don't think I will run out of things to do anytime soon.

You can only master the moment <> once that has pasted you must move on to the next moment.

The interesting thing here is that I thought I scanned the second page, the one I fleshed out but evidently I thought I had so little information that it was not worth pursuing.

I wanted to show a before (thumbnails from class) and after (fleshing out from memory)
but I think you can still get the idea from these two examples!

11 November 2005, 09:22 PM
Can't look at these too closely at the moment, but definitely will take a better look later on! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)


11 November 2005, 11:51 PM
@Dr. Bone

Your gestures are brilliant! :thumbsup: I come from an engineering type background and so lack this as part of my drawing vocabulary. I'm currently taking life classes in an attempt to rectify this matter though...

Inspiring stuff! Thank you for sharing and I really look forward to reading through this thread when I have more time. :)


11 November 2005, 12:05 AM
Michael M,

Lovely studies, BTW, now that I've gotten a chance to take a good look. ;)

Cheers, ;)


11 November 2005, 04:44 PM
Hey Mr Mentler.

You should change your name in Leonardo Da Vinci. Will you put these pages together in a "codex" one day ? ;)

Great contribution.

11 November 2005, 06:25 PM
Hi mr. Mentler
These fast sketches are excellent :thumbsup: thats exactly what I have to learn because my
"sketches" takes usually too long and are quite ehmm rigid ... well I have been told that I should loosen them ... so thats what I try to larn now ... but its not easy :)

Keep posting these nice sketches and your wise advices ....

Hey Mr Mentler.

You should change your name in Leonardo Da Vinci. Will you put these pages together in a "codex" one day ? ;)
Great contribution.

Well If I'am not mistaken he writes a book and prepares DVD ... right ? ... :)

- Slux

11 November 2005, 11:20 PM
mentler, you know you have my respect. keep them coming :)

11 November 2005, 10:01 AM
Hi there Mr. Mentler :)
glad to see u here...thanx for sharing ur great knowledge with all of us !! keep us updated :)

11 November 2005, 12:08 PM
I do most of these before most of you get up in the morning

I did the short poses from a model, they were anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute <> I really don't time them because I do not want my students to know how long the pose is going to be.

I them work out the structure more from memory and also imagination because I often change the poses or create new poses <> I also am doing some totally from memory and occasionally I start from Old Master drawings as reference <> I treat the OM drawings the same as a short pose from the model <> I place the rhythms and position the limbs in about a minute then put the reference aside and work the rest from memory.

I think I learn a great deal from this process <> trying to do about a dozen a day for a year.

This is a page of thumbnail constructions from memory <> I do a couple of these first thing in the morning to wake up and get my brain on the same page <> It is how I start my engine

shyamshriram ‡ Glad to see you here as well my friend

bumskee ‡ Making the rounds I see ‡ thanks for your support ‡ I think the best well to teach is to learn and let others watch you do it

Slux ‡ Obviously doing a lot of drawings is a far better way to learn than doing a few yet I see beginners all the time spending hours and days on one drawing ‡ to me it is all about the beginner of a drawing if that does not contain the elements I am looking for there is not point in going to the next stage ‡ I very seldom work from a model for more than a few minutes then I develop the drawing or painting mostly from memory ‡ I occasionally bring the model back it if I am having problem with something but mostly it is from memory or imagination

Arctis ‡ Hope these thousands of pages on brain farts fall into the right hands when I die LOL

Slux ‡ DVD goes slowly but it goes forward

Rebeccak ‡ Harry for a teacher I am really jealous as hell ‡ we should start a thread for all the people who have had really greats as teachers and let them share there experiences

default.rol ‡ I really would not call these constructive drawings brilliant but then again I won't try to stop you LOL LOL

11 November 2005, 02:52 AM
Heya Doctor B, :)

Great to see you back! :) I wish I had had Harry for more than one class, he was a legend! :) But I think you are becoming a legend in your own right. ;)

Keep it comin'!

Cheers, :)


11 November 2005, 09:18 PM
RK very nice to say <> Same Sheet different day

11 November 2005, 07:59 PM

Hope you will join us in the new I5 Minute Sketchathon ( which so far has been a total blast! :wip: Definitely participate! :)



11 November 2005, 03:00 PM
RK <> Will try to do the 15 minute forum soon

Here is a flesh offering to keep me in good graces with the gods.

11 November 2005, 04:35 PM
Very nice drawings you have here .. . it looks like a really great practise I will have to try something like that later :) hmmm I have spent quite a lot of time on your threads on CA and TSOFA as well so I wanted to thank you for your advices ... I would post it at CA but they have that maintenance thing going on ... ehmm anyway great work keep posting :)

- Slux

11 November 2005, 07:43 PM
Hey, there, Dr. B,

Good to see you back! :) Looking forward to your participation in the 15 MS. :) Can't look at your images atm, but will definitely take a gander soon! :)



11 November 2005, 01:42 AM
Very cool sketches! :thumbsup: Inspiring to see such high quality, consistent work. Great to have you posting here! :wip:

Cheers, :)


12 December 2005, 06:13 PM
No Ref No Harm No Foul
no pencil sketches just ink to paper <> forces me to think as I draw rather than just pumping the pencil

thinks RK and Slux


12 December 2005, 08:03 PM
Ha, nice! :thumbsup:

Still meaning to post on TSOFA...:D ~ will definitely do so when I can. :)



12 December 2005, 08:58 AM
Hey Mentler!
Good to see you posted your skillz in here! Wonderful updates (as ususal).

12 December 2005, 12:34 AM
A couple a pages of stretching exercises <> Thanks redehlert and RK

Rebeccak <> thanks again for posting your wonderful works at SoFA sure they will be an inspiration to many <> I made a few other post on this thread nothing major that is why I did not open new topic

12 December 2005, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by Michael: A couple a pages of stretching exercises <> Thanks redehlert and RK

Rebeccak <> thanks again for posting your wonderful works at SoFA sure they will be an inspiration to many <> I made a few other post on this thread nothing major that is why I did not open new topic
Thank you so much for the honor! :) And to be made a moderator there is also a big honor for me. Let me know what it is that you would like for me to do ~ as I say, my primary responsibility is here, but I am happy to try to help in any way that I can. :) Thanks again for the invitation to post my work there. :)

Glad to see more work! I think it's cool that people can see a lot of your work collected together in one place. Thanks for the inspiration! :)



12 December 2005, 05:21 PM
Nice update Mentler!
Inspiring as usual - nice focused lighted with the white wash inclusion.


12 December 2005, 08:49 PM
Hi, Dr Mentler,

How are you doing ?

These pages are nice, but may I suggest a couple of things?

Sometimes, I feel like the stylisation of your characters disturb their general structure. sometimes they seems to be out of plumb, and the different parts of some of these bodies don't seem always linked together by the same action, the same movement.
I've seen some quick sketches by Andrew Jones (poses that were 1mn long, maybe 30 sec...) that hasn't much anatomical details, but great essentials attitudes. It seems to be a very good exercise.

Just an idea.


12 December 2005, 05:26 PM
RK and redhelert Thanx

Arctis <> know your right <> respect your eye <> getting to close to it <> here's one out o my mind

12 December 2005, 07:30 AM
mentler, I feel so shamed whenever I venture into your beautiful works of anatomy. I have been meaning to study your work for months!! but only vaguely analyse them before being side tracked into other stuff. But seriously I think you are one of the most valuable resources on internet. :) we should all make more use of your massive amount of knowledge.

01 January 2006, 05:59 PM
To Those Who Have Seen These On Other Forums <> My Apologizes <> the all the rest ya all Happy New Year <> may it be the best it can be!

Mostly heads <> muscle and bone soon <>

Hey, I can't read the notes either!

01 January 2006, 06:02 PM
Christ these are good
my mouth is gaping ever so widelike

Where are the other forums you're in that people speak of? I mean I could literally look at these sketches for hours and never tire. Really brilliant, and you don't see that sort of genius often.

01 January 2006, 09:18 PM
Hi Doctor Bone

Thanks for sharing these drawings, they're really interesting to look at. It's nice to see your construction lines. I like how you play with proportions and don't always draw your figures with the "ideal" structure in mind. The proportions and your use of the materials makes your work highly stylized. Great stuff!

The Doc has a link to his forums at the botton of his posts.

The Society of Figurative Arts Forums (

01 January 2006, 10:27 PM

Yes, I never read the bottom of those things, it's kind of like I block them out
much like spam

01 January 2006, 06:46 PM
More Bird Bitches From Hell as per usual zip ref.
probably should have worked on this a little more but I am getting thirsty and have a bartender that needs my financial support as well as cultural enlightenment.

01 January 2006, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Michael: More Bird Bitches From Hell
L O L! :scream:

01 January 2006, 08:16 PM
Hi Mentler
These birds from hell look mighty fine :cool:
btw your bartender is a lucky guy to have such a supporter hahaha :)

- Slux

01 January 2006, 04:46 AM
Slux and RK <> keep feeding the Monkey and I will keep dancing LOL

01 January 2006, 09:44 AM

I'd love to see some kick a** digital workups of these ~ I know you're traditionally oriented (as am I) but I think it would be a piece of cake for you to do these sketches digitally...just a suggestion. :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)


01 January 2006, 05:04 PM
hehehe! Old master's thread! Finally! :D

Nice to see your thread here too! - i've joined the CG society not long ago :D

Keep feeding us with this good stuff!! :)



01 January 2006, 03:22 AM
Doctor Bones... :)

Loveing the way you bring those bones ... TO LIFE...
Beautiful ... LINE...
Excellent ...TECHNIQUE...
Thread ...OUTSTANDING...
Thanks for ...SHARING ... the ...KNOWLEDGE ...:thumbsup:
Hope to ... SEE ALOT MORE ....:applause:

Take Care

01 January 2006, 04:03 PM
Checking out some of the more obscure Mannerist dudes <> here is a few studies to get started

RK much respect <> Icey the Romanian Madman <> Spirit Dreamer, thanks for checking in

01 January 2006, 02:04 PM
hello doctor :)
just wanted to thank you for posting these!

moremoremore! :) it΄s so inspiring!

01 January 2006, 03:49 PM
I was curious about what you typically prefer as far as paper type and drawing utensal for these sketches. It looks like an oatmeal type paper, but was curious about all of the specifics (or if anyone else knows what he uses)

thanks much!

01 January 2006, 04:10 PM
Dunklegold and Cypherx <> Thanks so much for your support.

Media at the Moment

When I paint I use oils on Belgium linen I coat it either with thin coats of rabbit skin glue which I prefer or a new clear gesso product with is pretty good and easier.

This gives a medium warm value.

I try to emulate that to some degree with my drawing materials so that the process is very similar <> the paper is either a speckletone made by French Paper Company or Earthbound Sketchbooks made by Cache.

The drawings I have posted on this forum are from 9"x12" Earthbound sketchbooks.

I am still developing this process but currently I with directly with Nexus rollerball pens made by Koh.l.noor which come in all the traditional earth tones <> I use a Copic blender to soften the line work and that seems to work well. I use Copic or Tria markers (sometimes watercolor) for the wash effects and Carb.Othello pastel pencil for the lights and highlights. I have tried for the last year or so to bring what I do with drawing and painting into a similar approach.

Hope this answers the questions about media.

01 January 2006, 04:14 PM
Thanks a ton! I would have never figured it out on my own and it was driving me insane (short cartrip from here)

anyhow, will continue watching this thread with enthusiasm

01 January 2006, 05:07 PM
I just went through all the pages of this wonderful thread again and it suddenly occured to me that I never posted a reply in here.

Maybe your work looks so sphisticated, your lines and forms and edges and just about everything so confident that I thought you wouldn't bother for feedback telling you what you probably know already: that you, Sir, rock the house big time.

I fell in love with about every aspect of your style and come back on a regular basis just to check out yet another facet of your skills, soak it in, become immersed in it.

I admire the full and sensual shapes of your figures, the humour in your head studies and the subtle light you indicate after you laid down the linework.

Unfortunately I absolutely lack the vocabulary to vent my feelings about these drawings in english, let it suffice to say that I ... erm ... like them:scream:

Don't know why I did not bother telling you sooner. Please post more. I am looking forward to every single thing you might post.

01 January 2006, 01:45 AM
this thread keeps knocking the air out of me everytime i go through it. i love your work mr. mentler you're an inspiration!

01 January 2006, 04:16 PM
First let me apologize to those who have seen this post before <>This not how I normally draw from memory or imagination, it is just something I do occasionally to give me another way of getting into some new challenging poses.
Here are a few non-reference figures <> this is a little game I sometimes play with myself to get more variety of poses from my imagination.

Let me first say that I do not think there is one way to draw the figure and I use several methods to draw <> there is not substitute for working from life but I find that the ability of construct and invent figures and poses very helpful when a model is not available or you did not have time to complete a drawing or there are aspects of the pose that can be improved by making some changes.

I start with several cubes that represent the pelvis at random angles then add egg shapes representing the rib cage again randomly some overlapping and some not.

This is where I ended up.

And this was the process.

(1) I start with some blocks representing the trunk or pelvis. I try the make sure the these have 3 dimensions (height, width, and depth) and 3 sides.

This gives me some concept of position and aspect <> in other words how the block is positioned in space.

(2) Next, without giving it to much thought, I draw ovoids the represent the rib cage at position that have some sort of relationship to the pelvic blocks.

I try to make sure some of them overlap so that I know I will have some foreshortened figures in the mix.

(3) The next step is to establish a core or center to connect the two elements <> I this point I make some front views and some side and back views <> by drawing the line from the pit of the neck to the pubic bone or from the seventh cervical vertebrae to the sacrum.

I try to make sure that there is some twists and turns involved <> i.e. the rib cage and the pelvis have opposing positions in space.

(4) Next I like to indicate the connection between the two elements using the abdominal strip in front from the bottom or the sternum to the insertion point at the pubic bone and the strong cords in the back that run along side the spine and attach at the top of the sacrum.

(5) At this point I try to establish the weight baring leg from the side of the pelvic block to the ground BTW in a standing figure I know this is usually the high side of the pelvic block.
This is put the other leg in and try to start thinking about the ground plane relationship of the feet.


(6) I deal to knee joints at this point again using a block as my mass conception because it gives me the best orientation in space. At the same time I start to flesh out the torso and the legs.

(7) Now that my support mechanism is fairly well established I start to think about how the head is balanced on top <> the angle of the neck is my first consideration here then the cranio sphere.

(8) The process starts to overlap here because the arms and the heads relate to each other in terms of position and aspect in space. They relate in terms of action and attitude.

(9) At this point I continue to flesh out the figures and starting laying in washes to further define the planes <> adding first the darks then the lights and lastly a couple of highlights

Hope this walk thru was helpful <> remember to leave the head and arms till last <> this is something I stress a great deal and think it to be of critical import to the vitality of the figure.

Thanks all for your support and feedback <> I will visit all of your threads and give feedback in return.

01 January 2006, 04:24 PM

Great tutorial! :thumbsup: If you like, feel free to create a new thread here on the Anatomy Forum, (this is up to you) and call it, TUTORIALS - Traditional Figure Drawing - by Doctor Bone.

I don't mind your posting Tutorials to both your personal Anatomy Thread here and to the (potential) new thread. If you plan on doing more of these demos, then feel free to post them in either place or both. The benefit of creating the Tutorials thread is that I can link it along with the other Tuts, and also that people can find your thread when they search the forums for Tutorials. ;)

Cheers, :)


01 January 2006, 05:07 PM
MR. BONES....;)

Really enjoying your thread, and BEAUTIFUL DRAWINGS...GREAT tutorial....:thumbsup:


01 January 2006, 06:24 PM
I got to say I'm loving that tutorial - thank you so much for posting it. I know what I'm going to be doing on my next free afternoon....


01 January 2006, 07:24 PM
amazing work! remember seeing it on a while ago, packed with as much brilliance - have u watched/read the glenn vilppu stuff? What do you think of it?

I wish i could watch vilppus videos and the hale ones too. meh to VHS and NTSC.

Have you watched the Hale lectures on video also?? are they any good?

great tut aswell - everything looks so solid and real.

01 January 2006, 09:04 PM
I will visit all of your threads and give feedback in return.

i think if ever a "in return" was needed (which was not the case, as most people actually thanked you for this thread:scream: ) - this insight in your method was more than that.

Also, definitely material I have to come back to more than once.

So, thank you!

01 January 2006, 04:05 PM
Mr. Mu <> Your words are kind <> will try to get more tuts on the Bone soon.

Reflectedlight <> Sure Glen is a very good teacher <> his Mentor Harry Carmean fascinates me even more <> the Hale Videos and books are superb except the book Anatomy Lessons from the Great Masters which is a little lame, as I understand it Hale had very little to do with the last book. I have viewed his lectures on video a few times (once is never enough for the good stuff, at least not for me) I had the opportunity to attend a couple of his lectures at The League unfortunately I was young and did not realize what a great opportunity I had and did not continue going <> Damn.

Default.rol <> Working on more which I will post soon <> hope they will give a unique approach to some ageless problems.

Spirit Dreamer <> Thanks for feeding the Monkey <> he eats a lot LOL

Small update <> wanted to get something up on this new page <> how you enjoy my meandering on the creative journey>>>>>>>>

01 January 2006, 10:03 PM
i can not close my mouth... beautiful drawing.

thanks for sharing your great knowledge.



02 February 2006, 11:34 AM

Thanks for the reply regarding the Vilppu stuff- I will have to look up Carmean and see what his stuff looks like.

I have Hales "Master class in figure drawing" and was very impressed by it - havent read it properly tho... will do in time... and need to pick up anatomy lessons also. Its a pity to hear that you didnt attend more of the hale lectures - but hey - at least you got to go to some in the first place - and I assume that the videos are similar to his classroom teachings??

I have another question if i may?

I was wondering if people like vilppu, bridgeman, hale - is what they teach, as an approach to figure drawing - is this a classical approach to figure drawing as apposed to what tony ryders book shows, IE not really thinking about the figures masses and copying contours and shadow masses - is this what we would call an academic approach??

Do you use a bit of both eventually??

are you still making your own dvds??

02 February 2006, 04:45 PM
Tre Grazie ( Itl. Three Graces) <> as many of you know I have done numerous painting on the power of three.


Thanks Sturmkin and Reflectedfight

Reflected <> you have a pretty good handle on it <> Classical by my definition relates to the methods of drawing practiced in the Quattrocento until the Academies gradually switched the emphasis from working from knowledge of subject to working from the subject alone.

The Classical relies on knowledge first and the subject second <> Academic is just the reverse

The real answer to your question is that nearly everyone does some of both regardless how much they profess to one method.

Neither is better <> it is really what works best for you and what you want to accomplish with your art <> if you want to work long hours coping directly from nature and take what it gives you, it certainly has a lot to give, then the academic approach may be right for you. If you like the freedom to work without the model or to change what the model is doing or do a 15 second gesture and finish it later as Michelangelo and Raphael did then the Classical approach will be more appealing.

There is no debate here <> Anatomy Lessons by Hale is not a very good book (he had very little to do with it. <> Look for his Drawing Lessons by the Great Masters

02 February 2006, 01:54 PM
Thanks for the reply - really - it helps to clarify my thoughts so much - it helps to hear from someone such as yourself (who obviously has a load of milage, talent and knowledge under thier belt) that my thoughts on it werent way off target. Thanks so much.

And sorry - i totally didnt mean to write "anatomy lessons" - I meant to write "Drawing lessons" - just so you know that I did read your reply about the hale stuff earlier. Its my stupid hands at it again... I will need to pick up drawing lessons at the library or amazon at some point.

Again - thanks very much for the help and information - appreciate it.



02 February 2006, 06:01 PM
A couple of pages of no ref. constructions <> looking at some block-in considerations.

02 February 2006, 07:30 PM
Great work, Michael! :applause:

So, umm...are we going to see your Assignment sometime today? :D

Cheers, :)


02 February 2006, 08:14 PM
Going to the studio and work on it a little more and take a couple of shots to post.

Hope you will like it.

02 February 2006, 08:22 PM
Sounds great! :thumbsup: Wouldn't want our famous Dr. B to be delinquent, lol! :scream:

Cheers, :)


02 February 2006, 02:10 AM
Oil sketch on panel <> more to come!

02 February 2006, 02:16 AM

Cool to see your painting! :) What are your main artistic inspirations painting~wise?

Cheers, :)


03 March 2006, 01:25 PM

A large pastel from my Tre Grazie series

03 March 2006, 02:24 PM
Hi....Dr Bone...:)

INTENSE STARE THERE....really like the planes of the forhead...NIICCCCEEEEEE...:thumbsup:
Pastel work ....outstanding.....along with figures....looks great.
REAL pleasure seeing your work.
And YES, I have a whole frig and pantry full of treats for the monkey....just hope that he
does not bite...too often ...LOL!!..:scream: :)


03 March 2006, 05:20 AM
Studies of larger works <> these are about 3 x 4 feet

Pastel on paper

Mixed media (oil washes and pastel on panel)

SpiritDreamer <> thanks so much for checking in and checking it out

03 March 2006, 11:37 AM
lovely pastel work.... nothing to say more... just admire.....

03 March 2006, 05:48 PM
strumkim <> much thanks

Here are some thumbnail hand studies from the workshop assignments

03 March 2006, 01:14 PM
Hi...Doctor Bone....:)

I was just about to tell you that I really liked the ballance and composition in that panel
with three female figures above....but I guess that I am too late....just saw that you narrowed
it down to two figures...oh well...LOL
Really like those touches of cool turquoise in the second panel...:bounce:
That hands the movement created....:thumbsup:
Pleasure seeing these


04 April 2006, 03:42 AM
Big mixed media Drawings

3 X 4 feet conte, chalk and oil washes on panel

there will be more of these want to see where they go

Thanks for droping by SpiritDreamer <> yah I liked the composition of the three figures in the last post just didn't like the first figure.

04 April 2006, 04:01 AM
Very cool, Dr. B. :thumbsup: This is one of my favorite pieces of yours by far. :)

BTW, you might consider putting together a CGPortfolio:

If you join CGSociety, you can upload an unlimited amount of images ~ which you would certainly need. :D It would be a great way to see your work all together. It's quite cool, as you basically get your own domain based on your user name. I don't know if you've checked it out before, but I think it's definitely worthwhile! :)



04 April 2006, 02:04 PM
Will check out CGS looked at it a little but did not really grasp it all <> seems pretty neat <> I think you and I am on the same page with the drawing painting thing <> I hate to lose the energy an movement and of course the emotion that drawings have vs. painting that head into a more refined area <> I think maybe I am not a very refined guy <>

04 April 2006, 02:23 PM
LOL, looking at master paintings, I always think (and have heard many other artists say) that they prefer the artist's drawings to their paintings. Personally I can only look for so long at the Sistine Chapel frescoes, but can look at the preliminary drawings for hours. :)



04 April 2006, 09:55 PM
Drawing is the first thing I do every morning seven days a week <> I start drawing put on a pot of coffee when i take my first break and so forth and so on <> I always draw a couple of hours usually more <> here are few of the coffee stains!

A couple of more caffeine creations:::::starting to concentrate more are unity of line and tone::::::working them together instead of one at a time:::::::this is the way we see things and it seems we should try to work the way we see!

04 April 2006, 07:30 AM
not that I don't completely adore the other new pages, too, but that last page is especially wonderful. So warm, vivid and shiny, yet at the same time so idealized - stunning.

I am always looking forward to your new posts - it's as if my favourite gallery added a new drawing in the showcase.

04 April 2006, 04:59 PM
This mornings coffee stains <> few random thoughts >< some thumbs from memory <> and a coffee of quick ref om studies.

BTW when I work from reference I almost always draw everything flopped (facing the opposite direction from the original.) This way I make sure that I am not copying what I see without filtering it though my brain first.

Thanks Mu <> a little encouragment goes along way

04 April 2006, 07:21 PM
Good Afternoon.....Dr Bone....:)

Great Drawings. and even Greater Thoughts....really like the thought about ..the painting
should relect the joy that the artist had in creating it....NICE....:thumbsup:
Maybe you know the answer to a puzzle that has always plaqued me...still can't figure it out.
Why does a painting look corect to my eye, ...until I face it to a mirror, where all of the distorions become crystal clear in the image that is reflected back and veiwed by me in the mirror.
Was wondering if that has anything to do with why you flip the image when you work from refference.....been driveing me nuts for years now....LOL...:banghead:

04 April 2006, 02:32 PM
When we are looking at something we mentally make the correction <> in other words our mind convinces our eyes the what we are looking at is OK. This is because we have looked at if for a while and our brains fill in the gaps in the drawing/painting with information based on other experiences and we believe what we see and think it is fine.
However when we look at is in the mirror we start all over again and see the problems before our brains have time to adjust.

The reason I draw referenced material reversed has nothing to do with this phenomenon
It is more about making sure that I am analyzing what I as looking at and interpreting the elements into a different visual.

04 April 2006, 03:33 PM
Dr Bone....Thanks.....that makes was bugging me, because I never worked from photo's until I joined Rebecca's forum, and when I reverse my painting, it looks different, couldn't figure out why...but now I know....Thanks for taking the time out to answer my


04 April 2006, 04:25 PM
Photos have a whole set of proportion problems that are totally different.

The camera sees with one eye we of course have two <> there is a difference in what the camera sees from what we see <> space are flatten more in a photo than what we see <> we can reverse a photo are it will look ok but when we reverse and image we have drawn and compare it to the original photo we see all the distortion from a different point of view.

Again we convince ourselves that the photo is correct when in fact it contains a great deal of distortion which is even more complex with different focal lengths.

As Rebecca knows I am not fond of working from photos and certainly less fond of working from photos the are not from natural light source.

I think they are good resource for illustrators and painters who work direct from nature.
I think it is a bad idea for beginners to work from photos and professionals need to be fully aware of the limitations.

They should be used by painters after a painting has been started and the initial color study has been done. Landscapes and other works done from photos alone usually have a terrible quality about them that makes them very obvious.

04 April 2006, 08:30 PM
Photography is a very useful tool, we can't hope to capture the detail the a photograph can.
As I have said often, photos are very useful when they are the only way to get information, they provide unlimited access to many things that would be unaccessable without them, exotic animals, foreign lands and yes nudes. Of course we all have one nude model available if we own a mirror. The problem is not the use of photography but how it is used.
The camera sees far to much and captures an overabundance of detail.

Every photo is full of unpleasant detail and every photo has the possibilities of something charming. We must study hard to decide what shall stay and what shall not. If the values and planes go in well, if the softness and sharpness are taken care of, such irrelevant detail well not be missed. We can beat the camera, because the camera cannot choose nor subordinate, thank Heaven.

Degas, Eakins and many others used photos as reference. Of course they were master draughtsmen and did not learn to draw by copying photos. They used photos to help with composition and value and other design issues. Again a matter of understanding the way to use them.

Lighting becomes a hugh issue.

Ahead of everything else choose or take photos with very simple lighting, one basic light whenever possible for the best interpretation of form.

Nature takes care of that, outdoors. We mess things up when we take over inside.

Photography is a quick convenient way to record something to be painted later. It can also serve as a supplement to drawing/painting from life, as a reference for touch-up work, or as a record of detail for corrections. Photos are useful too for gathering ideas for drawings/paintings to be done from life, or as an informational tool used in the same way as a quick sketch.

Photos are often the only way we can have access to certain subjects as Rebecca has pointed out. Even though it is not an ideal access it is better than no access at all.
It allows us to capture things that are impossible to paint from life--- thing that move too fast or exist as very brief effects. (like snowflakes) Often we would like to draw or paint certain things, but there is no vantage point from which to paint, or other circumstances make it impossible to set up our painting equipment. A camera brings those otherwise inaccessible subjects within our reach. Artists with special needs, the physically handicapped, the confined, could not experience certain kinds of painting at all without photography.

On the other hand....

Cameras are recording devices, not experiencing devices. A photo is the product of a machine that simply makes and impassive visual record of whatever it is pointed at.
Unlike us, it does not think or feel. They are technically smart, but life-dumb instruments.
They have no sensitivity.

Cameras do not give a true technical picture of what we see. They only record what they are designed to record, and that is both qualitatively and quantitatively different than what we humans see. Except for capturing detail, at which they are better than us, they are remarkably limited. The sensitivity of photographic film is trigling compared to our human sensitivity; its color and value latitude is only a tiny fraction of what our eye-mind combo sees.

Once again this the 21st century and we have great tools at our disposal we only need remember that they are mechanical devices and have no brain.

I of course have a great camera and dozens of lens and have drawn often using photo reference. It should be the last choice and not the first when ever possible.

04 April 2006, 08:53 PM
Hi....Dr Bone and Rebecca......SORRY....was not my intension to open up that can of worms:scream:
I think that you are both right....FINGER PAINTING with mud on stone walles was once a new technoligy... finger got replaced by a brush and mud got replaced by paint pigments...
both finger. mud, brush, paint pigment, got relaced by a camera, which is now in the process
of being replaced by a computer...and the beat goes on ...LOL
The one thing that will never get replaced I hope, is the third eye that you forgot to mention
That's the one you see with; when you close your other two eyes,...AND IT CAN'T BE PHOTO GRAFTED...CALL IT THE EYE OF IMAGINATION....alllows you to make the most of whatever
is available .....finger, mud, brush,paint pigment camera, computer, or whatever else comes along.
All I wanted to know, was the mechanics of this distortion illusion that happenes when an
image is viewed in a mirror, or reversed in the the answer....I think...:scream: :)


04 April 2006, 07:54 PM
Looked at your gallery and you certainly have the third eye which is indeed what this is really all about in the end <> the operative word for me is to create <> in the beginning we all copy, some make the jump to create and some never make the leap <> you certainly have made the leap.

A few coffee stains <> don't like to reply to many times without posting a little something

04 April 2006, 07:56 PM
I'm diggin' the magic in a few of the later 90s posts (eg 92 and 98) crazy loose and wild. You keep on impressing me, good sir!


04 April 2006, 09:59 PM
Hi.....Dr Bone.....THANK YOU VERY MUCH.....MADE MY DAY....BRIGHTER ...:)

Really have been enjoying your thread alot, and also really admire and am in awe of that
elegant line of yours, not to mention your mastery of the human figure, and for sure your
Am really looking forward to seeing more of these great works and thoughts......:)


04 April 2006, 12:34 AM
thank you bones :)

04 April 2006, 02:09 AM
thank you bones :)

I second that.Your thoughts are invaluable.

04 April 2006, 06:33 PM
Hi Michael,

Have been out of town for two days, but am happy to see more of your work! Very much looking forward to seeing more of your great contributions to the forum. :)



04 April 2006, 01:35 PM
Hi Michael, :)

I hope you've gotten a chance to see this thread:

SPOTLIGHT ARTIST: Best of Doctor Bone (

Cheers for all your work ~ wow, I hadn't realized how much you had posted until I copied it all to one place! :eek:

Cheers, :)


04 April 2006, 09:50 PM
Hi Michael, :)

Malanjo has kindly reposted his comment to your SPOTLIGHT thread here:

I had forgotten to Archive your thread as I had done to all the others...trying to keep the SPOTLIGHT threads clean so they're just about showing off the images. :)



04 April 2006, 02:10 PM
I miss a day here and there so try to do more when I get the time <> the point is that I do thousands of these little dudes a year <> mainly from memory or reversing ref.

Here is a todays page of tiny torsos to get the ball rolling.

04 April 2006, 09:22 PM
Cube and egg step-by-step demo on this one here:

04 April 2006, 03:38 PM
Here is the short version of the Cube and Egg exercise:

(Absolutely no reference involved in this exercise)

The Cubes and Eggs

Establishing Torsos

Fleshing Out

05 May 2006, 04:10 PM
Saw this dude at the counter having coffee this morning and just had to draw him <> not everyday you see someone with this much character.


05 May 2006, 07:55 PM
Psst! :)

Unofficial Moderators, DoctorBone and Thomasphoenix (



05 May 2006, 08:03 PM
Very comfortable with this title <> I have been UnOfficial my whole life <> LOL <> Thanks much RK will be more than happy to help when and where I can.

05 May 2006, 08:05 PM
LOL I'd make you official if I could. ;)

Thanks Dr. B! :)



05 May 2006, 09:08 PM
Dr. B,

If you get the chance, something I would like to request is perhaps a new thread or a post dedicated to DoctorB's prescription for Personal Anatomy Threads ~ suggestions for what beginners, intermediates, and advanced artists alike should do in terms of exercises in order to improve their Anatomy and their Figurative Art abilities.

I think a lot of people create Anatomy Threads, and then don't know quite what to do. I always recommend Master Copies, participating in Workshops, etc., but I think it would be really useful to hear your advice for folks in terms of what they should focus on with their Anatomy Threads.

Cheers, :)


05 May 2006, 12:32 PM
I will start "The Bone Doctor's Prescriptions" and create an outline for the beginner to jump into the game <> this thread will need to be a sticky once I get rolling with it <>

05 May 2006, 02:49 PM
I can see myself

creeping into this thread, sick and unskilled

cut to Dr. Bone's Special Ana-Tonic, me taking it all at one gulp

skilled, happy and young!

I would take it regurlarly, for sure...:D

05 May 2006, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Dr. B: I will start "The Bone Doctor's Prescriptions" and create an outline for the beginner to jump into the game <> this thread will need to be a sticky once I get rolling with it <>
ROFL, sounds great! No problemo. ;)



05 May 2006, 11:39 PM
Here ( is an interesting question that popped up in the General Discussion Forum which you might be interested in. :)

It's from aceofamity, who just posted an Anatomy Thread here (



05 May 2006, 11:58 PM
Here ( is an interesting question that popped up in the General Discussion Forum which you might be interested in. :)

It's from aceofamity, who just posted an Anatomy Thread here (



yey i;m, il be sure to follow bone thread soon enough, i kind of lost track of it.

05 May 2006, 07:36 PM
A few pages of note for tonight demo and lecture on the pelvis <> I know they are rough and hard to follow but the key points are that the pelvis and its position in space and its relationship to the ground plane is the most important piece of information in understanding a pose. It is the mechanical axis of the body and the fulcrum for the strongest muscles groups in the body.

If not the starting point it is certainly a very early consideration when dealing with the figure.

Because of the fact the pelvic block and how the HWD of that block need to be understood.

One point I would like to make is that these diagrams are not a way to draw but away to understand complex forms <> understanding therefore is the key, because we cannot draw well what we do not understand.

Thank you all for feeding the monkey have to get to the studio now to get ready for my lecture.

05 May 2006, 03:48 AM

This is a great thread you have going here. Thanks for sharing.
I believe you have lit a light for me , thanks again

05 May 2006, 08:27 PM
FateBringer <> Welcome to my humble little thread and thanks much for the feedback

A few SB pages from the rainy weekend

Thanks for your support <> on-the-run at the moment <> will reply on all of your threads in the near future <<>> Thanks again!!!

05 May 2006, 10:18 PM
Hey Doc,

It was a long boring weekend of rain, everywhere. I got some work done on my art too. Not as much as I wanted to though. Keep up the coffee stains.

05 May 2006, 12:25 PM
:)love those lines!How many pages do you do in a day Mr.Mentler?
And is a Book also coming out with the dvd ? the notes in your drawings are really Insightful ,Would love to see them compiled!

Siju Thomas

05 May 2006, 03:46 PM
Thomas <> I usually always do a couple of page a day <> generally between 4 and 6 in the mornings <> I make it a point to draw everyday <> somedays I do more SB pages 8 or 10 on the good days.

depends on what I am into <> always do a few every week that relate to the lectures and demos that week <> try to find new information and present it in a different way <> it is all about me learning and then passing it on <> so I am always learning.

Also try to paint a some everyday as well ><

05 May 2006, 02:00 AM
Coffee stains > reviews for demos and lecture at SOFA and a few caffiene moments
this is the first part from memory <> now I do a little new digging to learn something new which I try to do everytime I present this stuff <> it is just as much about learning as teaching >< maybe more so>>>>> each one teach one!!!

05 May 2006, 02:03 AM
awesome's just great.
I wish i could construct human body as you do.

05 May 2006, 07:38 AM
wonderful, especially the last plate...!

And, best of all, I am starting to learn how to decipher your handwriting...:D Now that I got accustomed to it I must say I think I will go back and read through everything...:scream:

05 May 2006, 02:29 PM
Hey Bud,

This image: is a real beauty. I stopped and just stared to take it all in. Exquisite.

05 May 2006, 02:38 PM
Out of all the great artists here at CGtalk, your thread has me the most in awe. I really look forward to getting your book since I could never afford to purchase any of your works. I bought some earthtone pens and they're just fantastic

05 May 2006, 10:14 AM
Hello Michael, great to see your fantastic work on theses forums too!

Please tell me, are these done with software or traditional means? I think i remember you saying that you liked digital software which might be my answer :)

05 May 2006, 10:47 AM
no words Mentler :)

See you on SOFA forum!

05 May 2006, 10:54 PM
Lower Leg Posterior Muscle Groups

05 May 2006, 12:33 PM
:) Hi...Doctor Bone .....Great lower leg lesson and drawing .....:thumbsup:

Was wondering if there is a reason....not if, there must be reason WHY the outter ankle bone
is lower than the inner ankle bone...was curious about the funtion this angle serves.
I notice a common error is for people to make the ankle bones even across from each other,
or reverse the angle, and have the outter bone higher than the inner bone.
Thought that if the funtion of the angle was made clear, then the error would be less likely.
Also notice that the wrist, elbow, and other joint areas have angle relationships simaler to
the ankle...must be a common funtion it for movement...strength...ballance or what.
I think I knew the funtion of these angles at one time, but have fogotten, and am now
curious again, after seeing your great studies...:)

05 May 2006, 03:20 PM
hi Doctor Bone, I've been a silent lurker on this thread for a while now, and felt I should just drop by and say what a wonderful source of inspiration and motivation your thread is. Just looking at the freedom and fluidity of your freehand sketches, and then seeing the level of knowledge that goes into them make me pick up a pencil and doodle, even if only for a few seconds, without fail. So just to say thanks and please keep those wonderful studies coming.

05 May 2006, 02:07 PM
This drawings are something I do from time to time that break every axiom on drawing and go against everything I teach <> I have done probably 400 of these puppies and they have sold extremely well and I have several collectors of Domenicus drawings.

I just start with an eye brow or nostril and see where they go.

<> SOFA is closed this week so I thought I would do a couple of Domenicus drawings. This is just the beginning for those of you who want to see the technique as it develops.

SpiritDreamer and Zephyri much respect for your works and many thanks for your support of this thread.

05 May 2006, 02:28 PM
Hello doctor, Ima very frecuent visit of this thread, but I have never post anything, well, my opinion is that this is a great thread, amazing job here.

05 May 2006, 03:21 PM
Hey Bonedad,

Was wondering what the story behind these creations of yours were - great concept. like the feel that you've created with these too. Thanx for the update - always a treat.

Killer work dude


- d.

05 May 2006, 03:34 PM
Thanks DigitalSoul and Demented here is Phase 2 hopefully one more today.

05 May 2006, 07:58 PM
Most pictures are worth a thousand words but these lines alone have their own stories. Awesome work doc.


- d.

06 June 2006, 12:37 PM
demented <> mucho thanks

Here is a little more hatching and molding of form!

06 June 2006, 01:41 PM
Hey doc

Absolutely love how your are twisting tweaking and manipulating the face - ubercool.

I never liked much of modernist art because many of the artist didn't seem to understand anatomy but still tried to change it and make it expressive or abstract. This seems to show in their works, and I can't help but think they were too lazy to try and understand what they were painting.... which is why this one is killer.

enough artcrit. This one rocks - so much character.
thanx for sharing the progress too,

- d.

06 June 2006, 05:12 PM
I'm just amazed by your skills.

I love this last drawing, truly great work!

06 June 2006, 02:54 PM
Here are some coffee stains from the last few daze!

06 June 2006, 04:58 PM
I spent the better part of the evening reading thru the notes accompanying your drawings!
thank you so much for sharing all this knowledge with us:).Some really cool tips there for both beginners and advanced figure artists.I especially love the quotes by you and
de la croix in the last few posts.

06 June 2006, 05:20 PM
Some really fantastic work here! I really like the technical studies you have. They have a unique style and seem well controlled. Also the handling of lighting is interesting. Seems almost like a conte approach.

06 June 2006, 05:45 PM
if been...reading through.. your ca and i never knew you had a thread her today.. Ive been meaning to ask.. If though its a silly question. Why do you draw on the brown colored paper.. is it because of personal preference. Or is there actually an artistic reason to that.

Also... when i was reading through your anatomy thread, you was also part of a reason why I realized i needed to learn anatomy... :)
hope to see future studies... from you...

06 June 2006, 05:16 PM
Sunday Morning Edition <>

Fantasy little buggers

06 June 2006, 06:46 PM
Hi....DOCTOR BONE......Those little bug imaginings you just posted ....are GREAT...:thumbsup:
I just came in from sitting in my backyard ...soaking up some rays...summer finally here...
long winter....Anyway I sat out their for about an hour, just checking out a huge
jumping spider stalking whatever came it's way.....whole little WORLD..with all sorts of dramas
happening right below my feet...came in, turned on computer...and there's that little world again.....Really like that one in the lower right corner ....GREAT IMAGINING...:)


06 June 2006, 11:27 PM
Thanks Glen <> just spent the weekend at my lake house/studio <> always get closer to nature there <>

Here are a few more little critters for you to ponder.

06 June 2006, 11:37 PM
I really like the last batch of drawings. Reminds me of Yashitaka Amano's work.

06 June 2006, 02:40 PM
Thanks Womball <> Here some mo

06 June 2006, 06:21 PM
Hi DoctorBone!

New here! Your drawings are really inspiring man. Those creatures are really interesting!

May I know how you create those highlights? Chalks?

Anyway, do give me pointers ok? =D

06 June 2006, 10:24 PM
Recycled acid free speckletone paper (kraft)

Nexus roller-ball studio pens from Koh-l-Noor which come in great earth colors

Copic blender which softens the roller-ball and creates a wash like effect.

Tria and Copic markers

Pastel pencils <> mostly Carb-Othello which are smoother than some other brands.

06 June 2006, 02:42 PM
Hey Doc,

wow man - didn't think you had room for improvement, at least I didn't expect this rate of improvement. This is awesome - the best pages of your sketchbook so far, imo. Love the way you are using the blue now too - the greater contrast really add. And your line is dumbfoundingly awesomely amazing. Kinda makes me think of a rollercoaster ride - not sure why.

muchthanx for sharing doc, hugely inspirational. Gonna go draw right nya.


- d.

06 June 2006, 08:01 PM

don't suppose you have a fabulous website that's just to showcase your works, hero?

06 June 2006, 03:22 AM

sleepy now

Thanks Demented and cypherx don't have a great sight on just me but

The Society of Figurative Arts forum has lots o my stuff

06 June 2006, 10:00 AM
Hi....Doctor Bone...GREAT WORDS OF WISDOM on that last one you posted, and the drawings
are great as usual....those words remind me of that slogan....SPEED KILLS....:scream: :)


06 June 2006, 05:37 PM
Thanks Glenn <> couple more words of wisdom <> I keep repeating them to myself because I keep forgeting them

06 June 2006, 01:11 AM
Great fantasy stuff mentler. Do you play with other mediums much?

06 June 2006, 09:41 PM
Absolutely brilliant work, and I have to agree with what's already been said -- these studies are very inspiring.
The notes between the drawings themselves are very interesting as well (when I can make them out!). They give hints that go beyond the simple rendering of the form itself.
Thanks a lot for sharing!

07 July 2006, 01:03 AM
Thank you for the support

Couple more Durer interpretations drawn in reverse to me think a little more

07 July 2006, 07:24 AM
Durer is awesome.
Fantastic stuff doc, reversing them is a great idea and wonderful practice, if not very daunting. Truly inspirational how you've done them - can't wait to see more!


- d.

07 July 2006, 03:10 PM
Yo Demented <> many thanks


07 July 2006, 04:20 PM
After Bernini (way after)

07 July 2006, 05:47 PM
Wasup doc

last one rocks my world. I'm totally in love with how you and Rebecca seem to aim more for an emotive/subjective likeness than a visual/objective likeness. The dude's droopy-eyed quirkyness has been stunningly captured, and he's almost stumbling out of the page. always thanx for sharing, your work always gets me psyched no matter how low I am.


- d.

07 July 2006, 10:39 AM
D <> we have to stop meeting like this <> LOL just kidding always love to have you comment

07 July 2006, 01:50 PM
Wowsers, yep, I think you are getting better with this...either that or holding out on us ;)

Anyways, I was wondering do you do a preliminary sketch before you start inking or do you just sit down with a pen and have at it? forgive me if you have already answered this as I have only looked through your thread, not read it.

ps. thanks for posting a close up as well.

07 July 2006, 02:19 PM
I don't do any preliminary pencil sketch <> I start with ink <> in this case Nexus Rollerball pens in earthtones

07 July 2006, 05:36 PM
Lovely work on the eye especially ~ very much enjoying your participation in the 50 Portraits thread! :)



07 July 2006, 10:53 AM
Hi....DR. Bone....:)
Really enjoying these drawings....they have a certain DaVinci quility and look about them
not an easy feat to achive....GREAT DRAWINGS...:thumbsup:


07 July 2006, 08:01 PM
Rebeccak and SpiritDreamer mucho thanks

Here one that got away

07 July 2006, 10:49 PM
Hey Doc

Man I need more adjectives. "Awesome" and "Fantastic" have lost their meanings.

Not sure if I see pastel pencil in there but if it is you've managed to use the three mediums (pen marker and pastel, right?) in a very seamless fashion. Never thought I'd see red and green work in such unity. Also love the wash effect that you've used to establish the torso as a mass.

These remind me of how much I still can and need to learn - thanx for sharing.


- d.

07 July 2006, 01:53 AM
Demented <> The multi-media is a challenge <> but fun

07 July 2006, 05:38 AM

It's really cool to see how involved you are in this Workshop, clearly it's the right track :) ~ will have to do more of these. Btw, the forum redesign looks great, I keep forgetting to mention it. :)



07 July 2006, 03:04 PM
You hit a homerun with the OM heads R

Here are 3 quick teenie weenies out o guilt <> won't make 50 but having a lot of fun

07 July 2006, 04:31 PM
wow.. im a big fan of your works.. your understanding of the human body is extrordinary.. and the portraits are incredible.. thank you for sharing all these with us...:D
throw as many bones as you can!:)

07 July 2006, 02:18 AM
Machu <> many thanks


07 July 2006, 01:23 PM
Ah, Doctor Mellifluous,

what I like about these heads is the gradation from nothingness over a few introducing lines on into the detailed and sensual rendering - draws me right into it...:bowdown:

07 July 2006, 01:20 AM
Thanks Mu <> here is another one

07 July 2006, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Michael: You hit a homerun with the OM heads R
ROFL it took me a moment to realize that OM = Old Master (senility on my part? lol)

Really liking this:

If you scan your images at 300 dpi (or 150 would probably work) then the detail shots come out less blurry ~ would love to see these details more clearly. :) Of course, then you have to create a smaller version for the web, but ultimately, I think it's worth it if it shows off the detailing.



07 July 2006, 08:48 PM
Noway if these pack anymore detail or crispness I'll most definitely ... burn and die :D. These are bonenacular, Bonedaddy. They are of course going into that special folder I always visit when I'm feeling down. Muchothanx for sharing and for the support, always.


- d.

07 July 2006, 08:11 PM

Detail 200%

Demented and Debeccak Tanks

07 July 2006, 05:33 AM

LOL, that's great ~ shows off the detail beautifully, thanks for that! :)



07 July 2006, 11:21 PM
Thanks RK

07 July 2006, 01:34 PM
On my fourth cup

Twice size for those of you who want to see the obsessive, compulsive hatch-a-rama

Here is my last sketchbook post plus a 200% detail

Twice size for those of you who want to see the obsessive, compulsive hatch-a-rama

07 July 2006, 01:55 PM
nice Medusa, dottore.

putting your new resolution to use to do more things from imagination, I guess?

07 July 2006, 09:48 PM
Dr. Bone you're one of my favorite artists here. Your sketches remind me of Da Vinci's, but of course very different at the same time. They have a sort of a distinct character and style, from the lines to the cross-hatch. Simply awesome.

On an aside, how long does it take for you to write with that handwriting :D ?

07 July 2006, 10:17 AM
Hi..... Dr Bone...:)

GREAT head studies...:thumbsup: favorites are the ones where you have a little color added
to that great line frame # 184....just seems to give that extra punch. Creates a
nice atmosphere with depth, and allows for hard and soft edges....adding unexpected and unpredictable elements and mystery to the drawing.
They are all great though, and very inspiring.... that is just my personal preference.



Jack Shannon
07 July 2006, 10:05 PM
Your drawings are stunning.

Probably asking too much, but would you write a short tutorial on crosshatching? I am having trouble getting direction and form right, and I am sure I'm not alone!


08 August 2006, 05:20 PM

08 August 2006, 05:24 PM

08 August 2006, 05:26 PM

08 August 2006, 04:45 PM

08 August 2006, 05:10 PM
Inspiring Stuff DocBone!
Positively love the guy on the bottom left!:bounce:! The lines describing his rt leg and torso ! Whoa boy!

08 August 2006, 08:07 AM
Hi...Doc ...:)

Just stopping by to tell you.....LOVE those up angle shots you have CREATED in those figures.
Looking up at, from to be the hardest to pull off corectly,:applause: :thumbsup: ..for me anyway...:eek:
REALLY looking up to you ..Doc........KEEP INSPIRING

09 September 2006, 02:39 PM
Hi there Michael,

Long time no see! :) I'm hoping you might have the time to participate in the latest Workshop, which is definitely up your alley:

Anatomy Lesson Series: Body Part 2 - The Torso (

Cheers, :)


09 September 2006, 08:01 AM
Everything in post #205 is killing me...

I need to get drunk next time before I enter this thread so the experience will be numbed down to a bearable level.

I would lo...(insert several lines of continued '...o...'s) to see a fully fledged finished and polished drawing by you. Even if I have to down a bottle of islay single malt to be able to watch it.

12 December 2006, 10:02 PM
No longer MIA

12 December 2006, 10:12 PM

12 December 2006, 10:35 PM
Good to see you again here sir.
Stunning drawing as always!

love your creatures...

12 December 2006, 09:42 PM
This is the system that I have developed and use to invent figures without using models or reference.

The first page basically refers to the flaws in using the head as a unit of measurement.
The number one problem with systems based on the head is that the head is an ovoid and changes shape and dimension as it is rotated in space the second problem is that the landmarks fall on flesh i.e. nipples and navels which of course vary depending on sex, age, weight and position.

The system I have developed is based on a sphere which does not change shape or dimension when rotated in space and thus becomes much more useful to the artist as a system of creating the human form in space.

This page is one I did recently from memory.

This is a first page of a complete tutorial on the Cranial Index and the Cranial Grid.

As you can see the torso from the top of the head to the pubic bone is 5.5 units and the legs from the top of the great trocantor to the floor measures 6 units.

I am starting here with the spine and out from there.

This would be my starting point for a male figure <> I often make the lower leg of females about one half unit longer.

12 December 2006, 09:47 PM
Here is a mini-tutorial I posted elsewhere but I am posting it here as one unit.

12 December 2006, 09:00 AM
bon giorno dottore bone-ifacius...:D

whenever I visit your thread I am totally overwhelmed by the display of knowledge in here.

I am only a hobbyist, so the amount of information I can study (read: study deeply and thoroughly) is somewhat limited. That and the feeling that for most of the stuff in here I sort of lack some prerquisite skills or just time spent on drawing.

But all in all I always feel that I will have to come back to this stuff when I am ready and here's where the following question comes into play:

Do you plan on compiling and condensing all this systematical knowledge and your approach into an artist's anatomy book of some kind?


12 December 2006, 06:37 PM
Do you plan on compiling and condensing all this systematical knowledge and your approach into an artist's anatomy book of some kind?

I'm also interested :D
this thread is a real treasure but it is rather timetaking to find something particular if you don't know the whole thread content by heart :D

12 December 2006, 06:38 AM
Hi Dr. Bone.. I went through your whole thread from the start yesterday... I was so taken up with your images that I forgot to post a reply... Your anatomy lessons are awesome.. :bowdown: and so inspiring.. I saved all your images and started studying them one by one... You are definity making me a better draughtsman!! Thanks a lot.

12 December 2006, 12:10 AM
Yes a book is in the works comprized of my sketchbook pages add type-set translations of the copy

Mini-Tutorial continued <> Cranial Grid used to block-in pelvis from side view.

One thing I would like to point out here is that I do all of these exercises freehand to increase my ability to measure and draw things visually rather than using measuring devices.

This is the kind of knowledge one has to have to draw the figure convincingly without reference.

12 December 2006, 05:10 PM
On with the show.

I don't stress often enough that the diagrams and schematics that I have developed are based on solid forms. They are orthographic parts of a plan to be able to visualize and project the forms in space. So use them to simplify complex structures but remember a square is always a cube and circle is always a sphere.

Here are a few very quick thumbnails using the information from the diagrams to visualize the pelvis in space.

12 December 2006, 12:34 AM
Master Mentler - Do you ever do digital art? Just wondering if you handle it any different than with traditional means?

12 December 2006, 01:11 AM
Truely amazing work here sir. I'm glad to see you back posting and motivating everyone again. Stay well and keep us full of knowledge and inspired.

Cheers. :)

12 December 2006, 04:04 PM
Thanks all for your kind words this year. I will try to get by and leave you all presents on your threads in the true spirit of the Holidays!

A couple of Domenicus drawings done on the plane. These are actual size which is of course small so I included a blow-up detail for those of you who have a compulsion to crosshatch.

These, as always, are done from imagination which probably doesn't speak well of my soul.

Portraits of Imperfect Souls

12 December 2006, 04:14 PM
:bounce: wow those are so cool! Are they priests? I love the way you drew those - they look like all deck of cards!

01 January 2007, 01:54 AM
HEY....DOC....HAPPY NEW YEAR..:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :bounce:

KEEP INSPIRED, and INSPIRERING....SEE YOU NEXT YEAR...:scream::thumbsup: :)

01 January 2007, 08:48 PM
Magdelana and Glen, many thanks

First, let me again say thanks for your support in 06 and I will try to keep them coming in 07. As most of you know I am working on several projects including DVD's and books. I am also planning to do some streaming videos step-by-step tutorials as well.

I know this looks like a great deal of measuring but in reality I stress during everything visually and freehand without the use of mechanical aides.

The purpose is to train the eye to see visual relationships and proportions.

These are all based on the "Cranial Index" (sometimes called the Sternal Index) which is used by the scientific community in human studies.

I would like to stress that drawing is really a matter of connecting the dots.
It is about knowing where a line starts and where it ends. In anatomy we calls those insertion points. Getting from one insertion point to the other is what line does the way that the makes that journey is what makes the difference.

One must have some concept of proportion and that proportion needs landmarks to make it functional.

The following plan diagrams and thumbnail projections are based on a grid system which I have developed based on the "Cranial Index"

I could give many acknowledgments here but will save that for the books.

These are just beginning sketches and roughs for book folios.

I know they are hard to read and I apologize for that as well.

I have heard many times in forums like these that, I hate school or I am not good in school and all I want to do is art.

Let me tell you that it is all very important. Learn as much as you can about math, (especially geometry) physics, biology, history, literature, English, music, dance, architecture, botany etc. etc. etc.

The more you know the better your art will be.

In dealing with the rib-cage remember that the important thing is its over-all form and as far as the details such as individual ribs note the insertion points the angles and fine the first, fifth and tenth ribs is probably enough for a starting point.

The rendering of detail is not as important as understanding that function creates form.

Most medical skeletons have spinal columns that do not have as much curvature as in a live person (look at x-rays if you can) most anatomical text drawings are done from these inaccurate skeletons.

So try to make sure you understand the correct curvature/vitality of the spinal column because that vitality will put more life into your drawings.

01 January 2007, 11:59 AM
hey mr. mentler!

-i can't do anything but stand back in awe for you work. hey!, even your handwriting looks good.
i always gets inspired by watching your stuff.


01 January 2007, 02:55 PM
Amazing stuff you have here! It's really inspiring! And I love your handwriting style too, it fits right in with the drawings, even though it's hard to's a piece of art in itself :)

01 January 2007, 07:49 PM
Michaelis a Happy New Year first of all!

Secondly - thank you so much for taking your time to type those lessons :love:
excellent! especially the point about the curviture of the spine - noted :D

01 January 2007, 06:16 AM
Man, I don't know how you do all this stuff in Pen.

I spend literally as much time erasing as I do drawing.

Love all of the stuff you have in here, high quality, all of it.


01 January 2007, 05:36 PM
I review this stuff before every lecture. I work from memory to see what I may have forgotten. I find I learn more every time....

01 January 2007, 05:42 PM
Just trying to keep the pen moving and improving. Mind testers.

01 January 2007, 05:50 PM

As I said my workshops start this week so if you are in the Dallas area come and draw with us.

01 January 2007, 02:04 AM
wish you a good luck with your workshop... if i were there..

any plan to open workshop here?

01 January 2007, 12:47 AM

01 January 2007, 12:53 AM
If only I were in Dallas!!
I love the way you handle the geometry of the human body! Rational, but very unique.
It reminds me on how much I have to learn about proportions.

Thanks for sharing this.


01 January 2007, 04:21 PM
The Bones of Bones <> A Never Ending Saga
More workshops handouts to accompany my demos.

01 January 2007, 08:49 PM
I loove the way you write. Do you do this so that it makes your students pay extra attention when reading it? I find I need to concentrate to read some of the words. This is not a bad thing, it is very decorative, and I positively love how it makes me have to read each word individually with care.

Your ideas on the form and how each part functions is very interesting. To start from the beginning of these online papers, where would I start? This topic or one from another place? Your own forum, or the

Thank you for sharing.

01 January 2007, 02:30 PM
Andrew, there is a bunch of stuff here it is not organized and I have learned a lot since the first post but I think it still may have some value.

Of course the SoFA forums have a bunch as well.

01 January 2007, 02:42 PM
It is great to see your book in working progress. I love to see all the construction lines. When will it be out. I got to get it autographed, especially since I know the author! :thumbsup:

01 January 2007, 12:37 PM
Again from memory.... getting really for workshops demos.

Note: That the purpose of these kind of exercises is about understanding problems of forms in space. Also notice that they are not meant to be flat diagrams but orthographic plans that can be projected in space.

Be careful that this information is used to understand what you see and not to replace it.

Work from life and give live to your work...

01 January 2007, 01:43 PM
That's sweet, doctorbone. I like how you build everything from squares and rectangles. Are you using a yellowbrownish paper or is that photoshop magic?

01 January 2007, 03:39 PM


01 January 2007, 06:35 PM
"you, sir, are a genious!"

01 January 2007, 10:45 PM
This thread is breathtaking. I'll study all your pics. I'm sure I'll learn A LOT.

Thank you very much,

01 January 2007, 05:46 PM
It is really hard to explain how one approaches because there are as many variations as there are artists. Also different poses require different approaches. Here are a few recent thoughts on gesture, mass conception, rhythm and balance.

One thing that does remain constant in my approach is that I believe that artist creates the pose and that the model, if there is one. Is only a point of departure and source of inspiration. Other approaches have just as much validity, this just happens to be mine.

Hope you enjoy my thoughts and observations and how to start and construct a drawing.

01 January 2007, 05:47 PM

I am going to post these and a few more in The Book of Bones thread so I apologize to those who may see these twice. Do not always post the same things in both threads. But these drawings really are exploratory stuff for the book.

02 February 2007, 02:29 AM
Thanks to all will visit your threads leave feedback leave mega stars and crits that will make you famous by next Friday..

Don't try to figure this one out... it is the kind of figurative organic abstractions that I do as studies for my paintings. Going on another painting crunch and warming up to do battle with the canvases.

02 February 2007, 05:37 AM
Oh gosh, that last organic study is sublime. Not that it comes as a great surpise mind! Your thread is one I come to often when in need of a different look at things. One of the things I find so wonderful in your work, certainly in the gestures from imagination, is that, despite all the methodology you apply to your figures, they have so much life to them. Maybe its because of that, I'm not sure... whatever the case always a pleasure to stop by this thread.

02 February 2007, 01:09 PM

That last piece, puts me in mind of a praying mantis with venomous fangs at the end of its front hands/claws...nice doodle..:thumbsup:
Speaking of doing battle with the canvas...made me laugh:scream: figure drawing teacher in a life class i'm taking at the moment came up to me last night, and said that it looked like I was having a sword fight with my size conti crayon drawings... I never thought about it quite like that before, but I quess that that is what it amounts to...AND WHO IS GOING TO WIN THIS BATTLE..ME OR THEE..:scream:
Can't wait to see your battle take place DOC....I'll be in your corner, cheering for you...:scream: :thumbsup: :)