View Full Version : Iím Going Through An Edge-Looping Crisis Ė Please Help
09 September 2005, 04:18 PM
Iím trying to do this male model.
I can create a basic mesh.
I have a general understanding of modeling but whatís kicking my ass is the ďproperĒ form of edge-looping.
Iíve spent months and months looking through literature from websites to the anatomy for artist book, looking at all of the modeling reels Iíve downloaded and a gazzilion wireframe images.
here are images of what Iím trying to accomplish:
Iím trying to develop the leg muscles; quads, etc while trying to maintain a clean mesh.
so no matter how many variations of edge-looping Iíve tried i'm unable to get it just right.
so after a multiple tries Iíve been somewhat happy with what Iíve came up with so far but i'm still not satisfied because ever time i try to terminate the tries or anything more than 4 side i always tend to mess it up.
any help on this will be greatly appreciated.
thanks in advance.
09 September 2005, 01:21 AM
I'd argue that theres no such thing as truely correct, or "proper" topology, just topology thats good enough.
A couple of general principals:
-Its good to make your topology follow the flow of the muscle fibers.
-And the way to get rid of a face with an odd number of sides (tris, five-sided-faces) is to join it to another odd sided face, so that they cancel each other out.
In the attachment I've removed a tri and a five sided face by adding an edge that connects them, it also works to remove an edge.
09 September 2005, 06:13 AM
thanks for the reply.
what Iíve done for most of my day was trying to come up with different variations of edge-looping.
I was so stuck on that thereíre only two types of edge-looping.
I had two edge-loop variations and now I discovered two more but Iím pretty sure they are plenty more.
so what Iíve done is made a simple plane and started cutting.
Iíve been practicing this all day longÖjust cutting up the plane into as many edge-loops as I can possible make while trying to keep the mesh as clean as possible.
pretty much Iím trying to follow the form of the quad.
Iíve been having troubles trying to edge-loop across anything more than two rows of faces.
though i'm new to edge-looping i've developed this plate to help be better understand this technique.
i'm pretty sure there are plenty more.
09 September 2005, 08:05 AM
You could make the first one all quads pretty easily (which would actually make it the same as the third one), see attached.
Just remember though, all quads DOSEN'T mean no smoothing artifacts; topology like in your image above will cause artifacts if its used in the wrong place. (The wrong place being a curved form that isn't described by that specific flow of edges)
So, to totally contradict my last post :p, I'd say that the ideal and "proper" topology is just simple grid topology, that changes flow of edges only where absolutly neccisary to describe the flow of the form.
Does that make sense?
09 September 2005, 08:37 AM
I'd suggest to just hop into the cold water and start modeling. Do it with good references and work out the loops on the fly. This way, you'll encounter all of the problems that come up when it comes to creating good loops and keeping the geometry all quads. You'll learn all of this while you're modeling.
Also, remember, having an all quads geometry is a nice goal, but doesn't have to be optimal. I'd rather bring in a tri and hide it in a place where "geometry hiccups" don't bother me than having many, many squashed edge lops laying right next to each other without really contributing to the form. In the end, you'll subdivide the mesh and the SubD algorithm will make your mesh all quads nonetheless.
Also, you can often let the SubD algorithm do your job. Means: Block out the mesh, Smooth it once and go from there. You can still work out edgeloops on the fly and you'll end up with a mesh that is evenly divided. Once the topology looks the way you want it to, there's nothing stopping you.
09 September 2005, 01:43 PM
i agree with a lot of what was already stated. also remember that modeling, like sculpting, can be (and arguably should be) a messy, maleable process in the early stages. you want to keep topology and muscle flow in mind from the start, absolutely. but you dont necessarily need worry about all quads too early in the sculpt. you could get the form and flow down solid and worry about quading everything as one of the last steps.
also you might want to check out the body topology thread
best of luck though man
09 September 2005, 12:46 AM
thank you all of you for your input.
it is greatly appreciated.
10 October 2005, 03:42 AM
you were right about just model and model and model and eventually one will get it.
edge-looping has been alot easier on me now.
i'm running into a situation where it's tough for me to get rid of five sided faces.
i know that there well be some but i just don't like the area where they reside.
any techniques on how to get rid of them?
thanks in advance!
10 October 2005, 07:33 PM
Character Modeling is something I struggle with every day and I take forever to finish a peice, however, one of the "eureka" moments I've had recently was realizing that "edge loops" aren't that important when initially "shaping" the model. Just stick to even "grid-style" modeling and get the "shape" correct. No amount of proper edgelooping is going to correct bad proportions. Once you get the form looking tight from front, side, back, etc. You can get in there and cut in the muscle flow and delete edges that are no longer needed. When it comes time for skeleton deformation testing, you can start modifying edges to create "hinge" friendly loop structures for knees, arms, shoulders, etc.
If your edges are shooting off in all kinds of directions from the beginning, you start to feel lost in the woods. I remember cleaning up this torso peice I was working on and I must have spent hours deleting and cutting in the same edges over and over and over, meanwhile my mesh has not really progressed because I'm too busy worrying about meshflow.
I'm no pro, my WIP threads are up to 6 months long sometimes! but I hope it helps a little....
CRAB MONSTER/BIPED HYBRID (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=231150)
MALE BASE MESH (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=287187)
APE ESCAPE UT CHARACTER (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=280979)
10 October 2005, 07:33 PM
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