View Full Version : Spectacular 3D Entry: Gary Downing

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09-07-2005, 05:12 AM
Gary Downing is entered in the "Spectacular Challenge" update: View Challenge Page (

Latest Update: Final Image: Final Entry Higher Res (

09-07-2005, 06:39 AM
Hi gardogg
Glad to see on board
All the best wishes for this...

09-07-2005, 01:24 PM
hey, good luck and thanks for the hint!! :D

09-07-2005, 07:44 PM
Okay, my idea is to create an image portraying something that I believe would have been a truly spectacular sight in the Bible. I want to create the scene where Jesus casts out thousands of demons from a guy who was demon possesed. The story of this happening can be found in Matthew, Mark, and Luke in the New Testament of the Bible. The details vary slightly from one version to the next, but the story is overall consistent.

The Story:
The scene took place on the shore of Galilee. Jesus exited his boat and was met by a demon-possessed man who fell down on his knees at Jesus feet and asked Jesus what he wants with him and begged Jesus not to torture him - for Jesus had commanded the evil spirit to come out of the man. Jesus asked him what his name was and the man said that his name was Legion, for many demons had entered him. The demons then begged Jesus not to send them into the abyss but rather to let them enter into a nearby feeding herd of pigs (2,000 pigs). So Jesus agreed to this and cast them out of the man. The demons entered into the herd of pigs and the pigs all ran down the steep hillside and drowned themselves in the sea of Galilee.

Some Details:
The man was said to be naked at the time and had cuts and bruises all over himself from the self-mutilation that he had done in his madness. He also was said to have broken through chains - the townspeople had cuffed him and chained him hand and foot. So I'm thinking that in my image he will have broken chains hanging from his arms and feet.

This scene was hard for me to picture very clearly but I have been developing my ideas and sketches for a couple of days now and I think I'm onto something. I will be posting the sketches once I get a chance to clean them up a little in photoshop. Right now I've got nothing but a bunch of chicken scratch. ;)

The hard part about this is that there has to be a large number of pigs in view, but hopefully some close enough so you can see some detail. There also has to be hundreds of demons in the air and a few still in the process of exiting the man. There also has to be the sea in view, possibly Jesus' boat, Jesus, and the possessed man. In addition, I have to make some witnesses (those who were tending the sheep at the time saw all of this). This is gonna be a sick job. Very cool and inspiring but also very overwhelming! I'm going all out though. NO FEAR. I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get this sucker completed by December. I'm gritting my teeth and rolling up my sleeves as we speak! Oh, and it doesn't help that I'm pretty much a noob at everything 3d and/or computer related. So wish me luck!

Here's the scripture to go with the story for anyone interested in reading it:

09-07-2005, 08:00 PM
hey gardogg, wow, thats a big thing you`re going to undertake!!
and good luck with your homework ;)

09-08-2005, 03:38 AM
Thanks zongo. I'm excited to get this underway. The impossible feat! I'm busting hump to get my homework and stuff done so that I can create some time for myself to get to work on this thing.

09-09-2005, 02:51 PM (

Here I am trying to capture the pose and emotion of Jesus as he is casting the demons out of the possessed man. I'm trying to keep my sketches pretty basic so that I won't waste too much time on them.

09-09-2005, 04:20 PM (

Here is a sketch of the suffering demon possessed man. I am not sure whether this will be his final pose... Once again, trying to keep my sketches quick and simple for time reasons.

09-09-2005, 04:28 PM (

Here I am attempting to figure out the overall layout of this incredibly complex scene. It looks a little confusing right now, but hey, as long as I know what's going on, right? LOL. I may just call the sketches quits with this one so that I can begin creating and blocking out shapes in Maya.

09-09-2005, 05:21 PM
It's looking good! If you need some reference for the legion of demons being expelled, might I suggest looking at some of Gustav Dore's work. He did a whole set of engravings for Dante's Inferno and they might help you get the look you are going for. Just a suggestion. Keep up the good work!

09-09-2005, 06:10 PM
Thanks! I checked out his stuff and I think it will help me with respect to organizing the massive amounts of demons flying through the air. These two works of his stuck out:


Despite my willingness to use his techniques, I do feel that his way of protraying things is a little "glitzy" or stylized too much for my tastes. But... I think these can be of some use for me so thanks again!

09-09-2005, 06:53 PM
Deleted - messed up something...

09-09-2005, 06:57 PM (

Here is the overhead layout of my scene (with labels).

09-09-2005, 07:02 PM (

This is roughly the terrain and perspective that I'm going for. With this view, I believe that I will be able to accurately portray the pigs (2,000 of em) running down the hill, Jesus, the possessed man, part of the boat Jesus arrived on, the background mountains, part of the lake, and a sky full of demons. It was not easy for me to figure out a way to get all of those elements in! But I think I've got it now... This perspective should work.

09-09-2005, 08:54 PM
sorry, double post... :D

09-09-2005, 08:55 PM
holy cr**!! if you manage to catch a fraction of the mood in your reference pictures, this will really turn out impressive! i hope youre up to it :)
but i saw your quarter horse. looks good, so i think you can do it! i have to start working on my horse soon, the whole scene depends on how the horses look :sad: .

09-09-2005, 11:40 PM
Thanks zongo, I still am not done with that horse but I'll get around to it eventually. Good luck on your horses!

I'm chugging away on my project here so I'll just do my best... I don't know how much of the quality of the reference pictures I can capture. Happy modeling ;)

09-11-2005, 03:41 PM
I agree with zongo. An interesting concept, great'll be very awesome if you can capture that feel into your scene. Good luck! ^_^

09-11-2005, 05:51 PM
Good luck to you too

09-11-2005, 06:14 PM
Very interesting concept you have got there, and probably one of the hardest to execute concepts around at the moment. I feel sorry for the little pigs :). Anyway, Good Luck! I am really looking forward to seeing this challenge evolve.

09-12-2005, 11:28 PM (

Here is the progress I have made so far on the Jesus model. I'm trying to get it to look like the guy who played Jesus on Passion of the Christ. It doesn't have to be PERFECT likeness though because a lot of the face will be covered by long hair, a beard, and a mustache.

Please feel free to give me crits! I need them.

09-12-2005, 11:35 PM
Nice model good luck, man nothing to crit as of yet, just to tell you, you are friggin nuts! Good luck to ya holla!:thumbsup:

09-12-2005, 11:46 PM
Thanks beelow. I'm doing my best and I'm all for being nuts! I have a nasty habit of conceiving ideas for projects that are the most time consuming thing possible for the project. Lol. The way I see it, overcommitting to projects is better than sitting and watching tv all day. ;)

09-13-2005, 02:00 AM
Wow, power theme. This history is strong and dramatic, i think that you have a hard work to recreate this scene, specially the demons' legion. I'm impatient to see more. Good luck :thumbsup:

09-13-2005, 02:19 AM
I like it , becuze of it`s been clean .

09-13-2005, 03:20 AM
Ramtin and Alan, thanks for the reply! I'm glad you like the idea. I'm hoping to really get this thing underway. I can't wait to start designing the demons! You won't believe this but my mom had a dream a few months ago of a demon grabbing my sister and trying to drag her off and she is trying to describe it to me so that I can make a 3d model of it. I guess that's about as close as you can get to the real thing! Woot!

09-15-2005, 03:07 AM (

I haven't posted any progress for a while now so I figured I'd post SOMETHING. I've created the eyeballs, textured them, and figured out how to use fast sss. I don't think its looking "impressive" at this point but its moving forward at least. The lighting could use work here and I'm getting a wierd glare on the pupil I think. Crits are welcome! I am new to a lot of this stuff so I could use some help from ya'll. Thanks.

I still haven't merged the two halfs of the face yet as I intend to continue with corrections. I also haven't smoothed the mesh so there are some irregularities (like by the nostril) that you can ignore.

09-16-2005, 04:06 PM (

Here I'm just trying to get the proportions worked out. I want to add some muscle definition next and once I'm pretty happy with the way things are going, I will uv map it and bring it into zbrush for additional detail work.

09-16-2005, 04:58 PM (

Here I'm trying to work out some of the details of the ears and the feet. C&C needed.

09-16-2005, 05:15 PM
The first ever 3d Jesus!! great progress i like the ear. There's nothing like a well modeled ear... I think the toes are too rounded They may squeeze under weight more- SC

09-16-2005, 05:30 PM
Thanks bart. I agree about the toes. I will adjust that roundness issue when I go in and add the toenails and whatnot.

09-16-2005, 05:30 PM
I'm impressed by both, your challenging concept and your modeling work:thumbsup: .
Now I'm really curious to see what you will make of it. Watching this!


09-16-2005, 05:43 PM
That means a lot to me! Thanks for the reply. I will be working hard to produce what I have planned. Wish me luck!

09-17-2005, 01:38 AM (

I spent forever today getting these hands to look natural as possible because they will be an important part in portraying the gesture of Jesus. I plan to add a lot more detail to them in zbrush. C&C appreciated.

09-17-2005, 04:08 PM
hands are even more nastier to model than heads, i think. i recommend you to rig them and pose before adding detail in zbrush, because they will change shape and deform at joints a lot. and don't forget nails:]

09-17-2005, 07:14 PM
hands are even more nastier to model than heads, i think. i recommend you to rig them and pose before adding detail in zbrush, because they will change shape and deform at joints a lot. and don't forget nails:]

Thanks for the advice. I will make sure to do that. I guess the same thing applies to the body as well...

When you say rig then pose, are you suggesting that I can rig the body, pose it, then unrig it and tweak it a bit? I'm new to rigging and animating so I apologize for my lack of know-how. Thanks.

Otherwise, I would pose it just by moving vertices which sounds like it may not be the best route... Which way is easiest and/or best?

09-18-2005, 05:35 AM (

Because the Jesus figure in my scene will be clothed in a robe, these muscle details are primarily meant for the nude demon possessed man. I will be using the same body for both characters. C&C appreciated.

Is this too much detail for a base mesh prior to bringing into zbrush?

09-18-2005, 09:55 AM
Good details on the body. Look's quite natural. I don't think it's too much...


09-18-2005, 01:50 PM
Thanks Sabrina! I guess I have the "go ahead" then to start putting in the muscles for the rest of the body. This should be fun. Although difficult...

09-18-2005, 06:29 PM (

Here I am trying to model an anatomically correct shoulder. I am learning the names of the various muscles and becoming aquainted with anatomy for the first time! I'm enjoying this process. C&C welcome.

09-18-2005, 07:13 PM
This is disgusting image of shoulder. :argh:
I mean,gee.
But I see the purpose.You are one good modeller,and aproaching studiosly to the issue.
Keep strong pal.Seeya. :thumbsup:

09-18-2005, 07:33 PM
Yeah,another good modeller on this challenge,u can turn it out,man! ur so studious! keep chekin ur work with refrences,we'll learn from it too!goodluck,mate!:thumbsup:

09-18-2005, 08:22 PM
Damir and Ali, thanks! I agree that the muscles look a bit grotesque right now but after smoothing, they will look pretty nice I'm hoping. I'll keep you all updated.

09-18-2005, 11:58 PM
exceptional well planed concept and great modelling. the only thing i can say is wow, fantastic progress.
here's a little thing i expirienced in zbrush i might mention. i seen your ear for example is quiet high detalied and has many subdivisions already. take care the distribution of the polys is more or less same high concentrated, cuz once you add subdivisions in zbrush, its possible you get areas wich are very "highly concentrated" and the mesh gets heavy. either way, very great work, keep it up! best of luck and I'll be waitin' for your next update :) cheers :beer::wip::applause:

09-19-2005, 01:51 AM
Thank you the1st_angel! I will be careful not to end up with a "heavy mesh" in zbrush. I'm extremely inexperienced with zbrush so any tips like the one you just gave me are very much appreciated.

09-19-2005, 02:08 AM (

I cleaned up my mesh a ton today and I just got done with the triceps. I'm working my way down the arm right now. Next, I plan to model the chest and abs.

C&C appreciated.

09-19-2005, 02:37 AM
Good stuff so far, I like the fact that you are using your knowledge on anatomy and reference to help you, great stuff so far!:thumbsup:

09-19-2005, 02:49 AM
I can see a real renaissance painting feel to this piece - particularly in the landscape - rich colours and a dramatic landscape to help evoke a powerful mood...

09-19-2005, 03:27 AM
Thanks Beelow and Shagsa.

Beelow - I actually don't know a thing about anatomy myself. I'm just using a series of images that I've collected all over the internet to see the muscles from every angle possible and see what their names are. I'm happy about this project though because as a result of it, my knowledge of anatomy is already increasing a ton!

Shagsa - I'm hoping for a cool landscape too... but I really have no idea how I will pull that off yet. I've collected about 30 pictures of the sea of galilee shoreline and I'm hoping to create something cool... We'll see!

09-19-2005, 06:27 AM
That is truly a spectacular scenery. I hope you pull it off! Very detailed modelling. That ear is supernice. I'd love to see a smoothed version of his back :) Good luck, I'll be back for more.

09-19-2005, 09:19 AM
interresting concept, very detail and accurate modeling, will drop by again, good luck !



09-19-2005, 02:32 PM
Thanks for the replys! I hope to be posting the bicep and forearms soon.

09-20-2005, 03:27 AM
I'm contemplating what to do for the demons now. One side of me would like to find a cool demon on the net and just model it. The other side of me wants to be original and design my own demon. What do you all think? How much borrowing from other's work is allowed? Is stealing another's designs art?

I think I'll just have to make my own... I may use other's work as reference for some aspects, but I just think that in the end I will feel that I've accomplished an image that is "my own" if I create everything from my own imagination. Thanks... I guess I answered my own question!

09-22-2005, 04:58 AM
Hi gardogg,

Interesting modelling.
SubD's are really great for organic stuff.
You seem to be following your reference well.

Yes the Holy Bible for inspiration why not.
I actually enjoy demons and zombies a lot :D


09-22-2005, 05:31 AM
hi! i like your concept, it has a good feel to it so far, also nice execution of anatamy so far, i think the rig shoudl be interesting to see what you come up with for the shoulders, do you plan on a full rig with muscle objects to take care of the muscle tension when ur readyto pose, or plan on having it be an adjustment mostly proccess?

09-22-2005, 06:29 AM
exceptional well planed concept and great modelling. the only thing i can say is wow, fantastic progress.
here's a little thing i expirienced in zbrush i might mention. i seen your ear for example is quiet high detalied and has many subdivisions already. take care the distribution of the polys is more or less same high concentrated, cuz once you add subdivisions in zbrush, its possible you get areas wich are very "highly concentrated" and the mesh gets heavy. either way, very great work, keep it up! best of luck and I'll be waitin' for your next update :) cheers :beer::wip::applause:

That was the problem I had in the next challenge. I detailled the base mesh too much. Whenb I was in Zbrush I wasn't able to add such details as I want cos the resolution of the mesh was already too heavy...
Anyway, nice job on modeling ! this is great ! :thumbsup:

09-22-2005, 06:03 PM (

Here is a wireframe of the bicep. I am just about done with the forearm as well. I will save the sculpting of the forearm for zbrush ;)

09-22-2005, 06:04 PM (

Here is a quick render of the top of the bicep (normals smoothing)

09-22-2005, 06:06 PM
Hi gardogg!! Very great story, strong and deep emotion!! :thumbsup: :applause: The modeling is great, i just wanted to see a smoothed version of the man body, and sure the final "zbrushed" version!!! ehehe :D Congrats man!! See ya

09-22-2005, 06:34 PM
Hi gardogg, no critics so far, the modeling is very good, i hope to see smooth version. congrats dude, nice work so far. :thumbsup:

09-22-2005, 09:02 PM
Thanks snok and denverbs! In time you will see the smoothed version. I hate the effect of "polygons > smooth" so I held off from that. When I bring it into zbrush, I can model it further and then show what it looks like smooth. I still have to model the base of the neck, the abs, the obliques, and then all of the muscles in the legs. Then I have to rig and pose him, uv map him, then bring him into zbrush. :banghead:

09-22-2005, 10:19 PM
By the way, I decided to make the demons be "beautiful" because they are fallen angels. I would actually guess that demons would be even more beautiful than angels because they were probably (like satan) angels that were "full of wisdom and perfect in beauty" which would have made them prideful and desiring to take over the kingdom of God. Whether or not this guess on my behalf is true, I plan to make these demons scary despite their beauty by their body language, expressions, hair, nails?, the way they absorb light, and some haze/black mist surrounding them. Any further suggestions or comments on this are welcome!

09-23-2005, 04:33 AM
Nice modeling skills dude, the character so far looks real good:cool: . Concept is also very different I simply like like it.

Keep up the good work dude:thumbsup:

09-23-2005, 04:35 AM (

Here's the lats and obliques. I still have to do the abs, ribs, and leg muscles. Almost there...

09-23-2005, 06:20 PM (

The musculature of the outside part of the leg is pretty much done now. I'm working on the inner leg, hamstrings, and calves next. C&C appreciated.

09-23-2005, 06:35 PM
Hey Gary ,

You have an interesting concept , I will be watching to see how this comes together .I wouldn't go with too much muscular definition on the possesed guy, the demons I would say yes more so. Good luck.

09-23-2005, 08:49 PM
WOW mate, beautiful modeling... :thumbsup:
I'll look forward to see your proress ;)
Keep it up!!!
Good luck.

09-23-2005, 09:41 PM
god, i would be having big problems rigging this muscle mountain, i surely know that after doing this ( - hid everything under plate mail later:]

09-24-2005, 04:53 AM (

I have completed the hamstrings and glutes. The center picture is a sketch by Leonardo DaVinci. I've been using his anatomy sketches alot... Still working on the knee area, calves, and shins. I need to go back and do the abs and ribs too. More to do! But getting there bit by bit.

09-24-2005, 12:18 PM
keep it up , great modeling :thumbsup:

09-24-2005, 04:24 PM
hmm...that's a really Great modeling progress there man,but is Jésus going to be that much of the muscly? if you're going to dress him,just let the muscles go...anyway....Keep it up:thumbsup:

09-24-2005, 08:26 PM
It's not only that your body comes out very good, it's also fascinating to watch your well documented work. I'm learning a lot here. Keep it up!:thumbsup:


09-24-2005, 09:29 PM
Madshooter - thanks. I'm doing my best ;)

mmoir - Thanks for the reply. I pictured from the start that the demon possessed guy would be "ripped" but very skinny. He was definitely strong - strong enough to break through chains and be uncontainable. However, I think the demons had a big part in that. I doubt he ate very much... I'm thinking he was pretty skinny and ripped. I won't make him "buff" though. More like Tommy Lee Davis (the guy who fought Jim Carrey in Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls)

el_newty - thanks!

cgg - thx!

3rd user - this body will be reused for every character in the scene. I will just apply different scales and change the lengths of some muscles and some different aspects for each of the characters (after all, humans all have the same muscles right? Just different shapes and sizes!)

daWinky - thanks! I'm glad you like the model. Sorry that I'm not labeling every muscle anymore. Taking the time to do so got old pretty fast ;)


by the way, if reusing this mesh for the different characters in this scene is something that is not advisable - for whatever reason - let me know. It just seemed like the practical thing to do!

09-24-2005, 11:24 PM (

I finished the calves now. Just have to clean up the knee area, add the shin muscles, add the abs and ribs! Getting oh so close to uv mapping :rolleyes:

09-25-2005, 02:45 AM
spin99 - sorry, I somehow didn't see your post! I will definitely consider subd... But I plan to take this into zbrush anyways so we will have to see.

junpei wrote:
hi! i like your concept, it has a good feel to it so far, also nice execution of anatamy so far, i think the rig shoudl be interesting to see what you come up with for the shoulders, do you plan on a full rig with muscle objects to take care of the muscle tension when ur readyto pose, or plan on having it be an adjustment mostly proccess?

I appreciate your reply. For the posing, I'm gonna just have to experiment using trial and error I guess. I'm a very inexperienced 3d artist so I don't know what to do and haven't found any tutorials on the subject. I'm guessing I could just move the limbs manually and adjust the muscles based on how they would be affected by the pose that they move to...???

Anyone have a better idea?

gppepper wrote:
That was the problem I had in the next challenge. I detailled the base mesh too much. Whenb I was in Zbrush I wasn't able to add such details as I want cos the resolution of the mesh was already too heavy...
Anyway, nice job on modeling ! this is great !

You've definitely alarmed me here! I guess I could bring it into zbrush in parts then? For example, I could maybe unattach the ear before export? Having never tried the maya-to- zbrush-then-back-to-maya workflow, I am clueless on how all of this technical stuff will work out. If worse comes to worse, I could just add the extra detail I want in maya and leave zbrush out of this particular model, or I could delete extraneous edge flows before export to zbrush, or I could (like I suggested before) just bring certain parts of my mesh into zbrush for tweaking. I just don't know the best route right now...

Help on these issues will be very much appreciated! I'm learning right now and not afraid to admit it! Help the noob!

09-25-2005, 03:26 AM
By the way, I did ask about the issue of how much detail is too much for a "pre-zbrush" mesh:

I wrote: Is this too much detail for a base mesh prior to bringing into zbrush?

And no offense to Sabrina but she wrote back: I don't think it's too much...

So I just went with the muscle detail in Maya assuming it would be alright... Well, we'll see how this plays out soon eh? Here goes nothin!

09-25-2005, 05:10 AM (

I've finally finished the leg to somewhat satisfaction. There are plenty of details that I didn't put in yet... but I want to hold off until zbrush. I'm gonna touch up on the front of the upper torso, uv map, set up the facial expression, rig and pose, texture test some, then bring into zbrush for some additional tweaking.

09-25-2005, 06:24 AM (

Last update for the day. I've completed the neck and the chest and cleaned up the area where the chest enters into the shoulder. C&C appreciated.

09-25-2005, 03:19 PM
Hey I can see the effort in the anatomy, quite accurate I must say. Is this a smoothed version or issit the original mesh? Could use some smoothing I think.


09-25-2005, 07:46 PM
Hey I can see the effort in the anatomy, quite accurate I must say. Is this a smoothed version or issit the original mesh? Could use some smoothing I think.


Thanks! This is just the original mesh with the normals softened. Softening the normals gives it some degree of smoothness, but the real smoothness will come from the displacement map I will be making in zbrush.

09-26-2005, 01:40 AM (

I've now completed the abs and ribs. That just about ends the base mesh modeling! I'm gonna pose it now. Then I will uv map and start some texture testing... After that I will zbrush it. I'm starting to enter into "uncharted territories" where I'm not very well aquainted at this point. But I'm happy to learn.


09-26-2005, 04:57 AM
Man, the anatomy is very great!! I don´t think you´ll need a "zbrushing" (??) in a so detailed model!! eheh :D

09-26-2005, 05:01 AM
thanks snok! I see what you are saying... but on the other hand, there are some things that I want to add such as wrinkles on the knuckles of fingers, viens and bony protrusions on the hands, viens in the arms, veins in the feet, etc. I'm sure there are lots of subtleties that will make the model better... Plus, I really want to learn zbrush more!

09-26-2005, 04:41 PM
that's great and cool...hope to see u this good at Z too...i'm learning Zbrush too...believe me,what you see in Maya is nothing in compare to can do magic,also Zbrush is the easiest package ever

09-26-2005, 04:44 PM
Hm... Respect your style of body modelling. :thumbsup:

09-26-2005, 05:04 PM
Hi Gary,
Congrats! Good work on the anatomy and the proportions, i hope to see more. :thumbsup:

09-26-2005, 07:25 PM
wow very nice anatomy, watch out for the lower leg and it's flow tho, specially if you are going to zbrush. Keep it going!

09-26-2005, 07:57 PM
3rd user - thanks. I hope zbrush will be as easy as I hear it is! I'll find out soon enough.

Grigorij and denverbz - thanks

snows - thanks, I will look into that. Topology flow is something I definitely want to have correct.

09-26-2005, 08:47 PM
Hi Gary,

again great updates:thumbsup: . I read your earlier posts here right now and I really hope I haven't caused any trouble to you with my statement concerning zBrush:eek: ! I understood your question as regarding the amount of polys you can handle and there is absolut no problem with it. You can go to zBrush with any level of detail you want and there should be no problem with adding wrinkles and veins...So very sorry if there was a misunderstanding!:banghead:


09-26-2005, 11:33 PM
I understood your question as regarding the amount of polys you can handle and there is absolutely no problem with it. You can go to zBrush with any level of detail you want and there should be no problem with adding wrinkles and veins

Actually, that was my question. And that was your answer before as well. I understood and believed you and proceeded to add all the detail I wanted in Maya thinking it would be okay in zbrush. Then all these people started warning me that the mesh would become "heavy" if I had too much detail... I assumed that this was a problem and then thought that maybe my mesh poly count was too high. You insisted and continue to insist that it will not be a problem. Others have implied that it will be a problem. There is one way to find out! Try it!

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. It just seems like everyone has had different experiences? I don't know. No matter what happens, I am just super happy to have people trying to help me out! So thank you daWinky for your opinions and reassurance. I will go into zbrush and see what happens...

09-27-2005, 05:20 AM
This is a very detailed model, with a lot of details... great work :thumbsup:
You want to make it more detailed with Z-brush... hmmm... wow... this will be gorgeus ;)
Good luck.

09-27-2005, 02:09 PM
Thanks el_newty! I do want to add a little zbrush magic. I have always felt that the more details the better. This may not be the case in everyone's work or style, but in my own experiences, I have always gotten better feedback when I added a large amount of detail.

By the way, because I decided to go 5d (a 2d and a 3d entry) and I have school full time, time management has become a HUGE issue. Therefore, I have developed a schedule full of deadlines! I never intended to make one, but with the extra pressure of an additional project, I fear that it would be easy to end up rushing last minute due to not realizing how much further I have to go!

09-27-2005, 09:12 PM (

I just got done uv mapping the body. I will just mirror the uvs for the other half of the body. I'm going to do 2 characters over this week and next week. That is my goal... So it begins!

By the way, I was told that when using a zbrush displacement map, it is important to avoid stretching uvs. I was told that seems are not a problem. So I didn't try to hide seems a whole lot here... I also plan to texture with the help of Deep Paint 3d and photoshop. Deep Paint 3d should take care of the texture seems.

09-27-2005, 10:51 PM
Man you're doing a huge scene~ i hope you do well, it's definately gonna be spectacular if you pull it off, good luck man!

09-28-2005, 04:39 AM
Thanks Hhssuu! Yeah, if I pull it off it will be one of my biggest accomplishments... well at least in art/creative projects. It doesn't help that I'm doing the 2d challenge now too hehehe!

09-28-2005, 05:31 PM
Respect your style of body texturing.

09-28-2005, 06:11 PM
Hi, good UV map, no distortion. I can't wait to see more. :thumbsup:

09-28-2005, 09:33 PM
This looks very clean so far:) . I hate to do this mapping work...Now we can look forward to see some nice textures!:bounce:


09-29-2005, 02:06 AM
Thanks for the replies! I actually am planning on modeling the rest of the scene this month without texturing anything till November. I'm hoping to spend November on texturing, lighting, matte painting, and post trickery.

My uv map is only to test out creating and applying a zbrush displacement map. I can't wait to start on zbrush!

09-29-2005, 04:55 AM (

Today I managed to free up a little bit of time to work on the eye of the character. I've seen better eyes out there, but I'm gonna say that this should work fine because there will not be any closeups and besides, this is my first ever cg eye, really!

C&C appreciated.

09-29-2005, 06:30 AM
Thanx for giving me Kris eye tutorial dude, it is surely gonna help me:)

Waiting for your next step:thumbsup:

09-29-2005, 07:45 AM
Hey man, that eye's not bad and seems to be refelcting light quite nicely. It might be worth increasing the detail of the iris even if he is going to be quite far form the camera. I use an excellent little trick in Photoshop with polar co-ordinates to make eyes, dunno if you know it...

Bascailly you start with a square canvas, add a thick black line at the top (this'll become the pupil) and then use your photoshop creativity to make the coloured detailed of the iris working in straight lines down the image. Go to Distort/Polar Co-ordinates and, hey presto, a wicked looking iris!

Also, if you really want really effective eyes you might want to add an HDRImage to the reflection channel for instant depth and realism. I find when using HDRI the reflections are so effective that I don't even need to bother with the whole conical iris thing and just map the eye onto a bog-standard sphere.

I hope that all makes sense :)

Good luck,

09-29-2005, 08:37 PM
Swamps, thanks for the tips! You taught me something valuble about hdri and I did some research on hdri last night and this morning. It is very interesting stuff. I will definitely use it in the future. However, I don't want lighting on the eyes that is not going to reflect my scene. So, instead of fake reflections, I am going to stick with actual reflections created by the scene... I will definitely use your advice on hdri in the future though. Especially for closeup renders like that.

The pupil of the eye I hand painted and I agree that it could use some work to make it more attractive. I think the eyeball I was using as a reference had pretty dull looking pupils too...

Next step: Hair? Clothing? Facial expression? Pose and Zbrush?

I will maybe go with "eeni meeni miny moh, catch a tiger by his toe" ;) hehehe

09-30-2005, 07:36 PM
Hi greg, nice work so far. I igree with swamps' word, i'm puting here a link with a good tutorial of the "Antropus" about eyes paint, i hope that help you.:thumbsup:

Eye tutorial "Antropus" (

09-30-2005, 08:17 PM
Thanks Denverbs. I will use that example to improve my pupil paint job.

10-01-2005, 12:46 AM
Wow... a lot of detail! Thnx for your tips :) Looking great so far. I was just thinking though... maybe if you are using really emphasized anatomy.. make sure you use a large frame... maybe increase the chest volume? Anyway just my thought ;) Good luck!

10-01-2005, 01:02 AM
alfy - Thanks. I understand your tip but I envisioned this guy as being "skinny strong" not "warrior buff." So muscle definition was a high priority, however, I don't want him to have a big frame. I hope that makes sense...

10-02-2005, 02:35 AM (

Okay, here's a humble start to the composition. I decided to get things rolling again. Please feel free to give C&C.

These colors are temporary... I just threw a photo up there to give an idea of where I'm going with the sky. Also, this is just default lighting. I haven't messed with the lighting yet...

10-02-2005, 03:29 PM
It seems on this last render,taht your figure has somewhat biger head then it suppose to.
Beside that,body looks quite nice modelled.

10-02-2005, 04:02 PM
Thanks Air. I'll look into that.

10-02-2005, 08:46 PM
hi gardogg- just checked out your thread-huge concept! you'll be a busy boy! the modelling so far is amazing! I love the way you're fleshing out the muscular detail-complex stuff and you're really good at it. keep it coming!


10-02-2005, 10:06 PM
Hay gardogg you entry is looking good, the detail on Jesus is phenomenal. I can't wait until you complete you entry. Ya going to post into other tread as well.

10-02-2005, 10:24 PM
From this view torso looks great, and other parts also, but model have some very strange deformation on the side of thigh.? On that place you have Musculus vastus lateralis.

Sorry because my comment is late.:sad:

10-03-2005, 06:30 AM
This kind of sky should work very good in your concept:thumbsup: ! But I think Air is right with his advice to the head. It looks a little to big. I'm curious to see your first zBrush experiences!:)


10-03-2005, 06:24 PM
Shakes - I appreciate your comments. I am very busy and will be, but I was willing to make that sacrafice of free time. This contest is WAY up there on my priority list.

Crimson eye - Thank you.

Andreja - I see what you are saying I think. My legs don't match too well with Arnold Schwarzenegger's legs in that picture. However, I think they do match up with the reference that I used originally - leg sketches by DaVinci. Arnold Schwarzenegger's legs aren't typical legs because their muscles I think are so big? Let me know if you can find something specific wrong with them using this picture...

Sabrina - I see what you are saying concerning the head and I think it was something caused by the camera distortion. I am pretty new to camera and rendering setup so mistakes will be many I'm sure. I will work on getting the distortion fixed. As far as the head literally needing to be scaled down, I don't think that is the problem because I used image planes to create the correct profile from the start. I can't wait to use some zbrush too! But first comes first. I think hair and the clothes and poses and whatnot should come next.

10-03-2005, 07:36 PM
Hi gardogg, nice work so far. The both model and the composition looks so good, I liked also the sky. :thumbsup:

10-04-2005, 05:15 AM
Thanks denverbs. I intend to make a sky similar to this in photoshop, however, I want it to be even more dramatic. The composition is fairly accurate but I am changing it some...


I've gotten 80% of the character posing done. I just have to untangle some verts (since I posed it manually :banghead: ) I will need to remodel a lot too since muscles change alot when posed differently.

10-04-2005, 02:26 PM (

For now, just ignore the poorly deformed joints. These will be remodeled for sure. Are there any suggestions for improvement of the composition? Also, any suggestions for the poses? Can they be improved?


PS. I intend to move the kneeling guy to the left a bit.

10-05-2005, 02:14 AM
I guess I could bring it into zbrush in parts then? For example, I could maybe unattach the ear before export? Having never tried the maya-to- zbrush-then-back-to-maya workflow, I am clueless on how all of this technical stuff will work out. If worse comes to worse, I could just add the extra detail I want in maya and leave zbrush out of this particular model, or I could delete extraneous edge flows before export to zbrush, or I could (like I suggested before) just bring certain parts of my mesh into zbrush for tweaking. I just don't know the best route right now...

thought about a possible solution. Yes you can eaisily detach ears and export your mesh without the ears. It also is possible to create multi displacement (different submaterial channels), this is wich requires much planing and is not explicitly requiered for your ear for example. If your ear (wich looks great and is highpoly already) is detatched, it won't cause you troubles. the basic trouble is caused by the higher resolution, by attaching it back, look if you can spare it out the higly concentrated areas from smove if possible on the first level of subdividing. and then use a second subdivision modifier for all over. this should solve it.

for slight corrections of mass in your rigg, use blendshapes. in case you're using zbrush anyways, a nice option could be to "zbrush in pose", but textures in zbrush best are painted in a neutral pose where all parts of the mesh are accessable easily :), in case you do that, keep the ears where they are ;)

as for the pose, the hand of jesus not pointing towards the horizon could be 2 possebileties, an inviting or recieving gesture, to help the bodylanguage, since he communicates with the demons within the man.
Another cool gesture could be the classical "use the force" sort of gesture with it, to show powers he uses to get the link to the demons. just an idea

to illustrate tha mans burden, (must have been a heavy one to carry a legion around) maybe a bent back "cat like when kitty is scared", so his face is visable and a spastic expression in his face, pain, maybe also hope. (hey he meets gods son :D)

to give the scene a nice epic feel, you could lower the point of view, first, jesus looks bigger and the man gets more into focus, second, you win nice space, much sky for the leaving legion.

I hope one or the other idea gave u an input that is usefull in any way for your work. you done a fantastic modelling job, keep up the great work.
cheers :beer: :buttrock: :wip:

10-05-2005, 05:59 AM
the1st_angel - Wow, coming from someone who is an inspiration to me, I don't feel worthy of such an incredible response! Thank you so much! Your suggestions about the zbrush issue make sense to me. I will bear them in mind when I go to tackle that issue. I also agree about zbrushing in pose. Sounds like a great way to get the body to look correct again (posing made my mesh look like rubber!). Blendshapes are something I have not yet learned about since this is my first year in 3d. I will look into that asap. The pose of Jesus is something that needs work, however, I do want the arm placement to remain generally the same. My sister came up with it so its kind of special to me ;) It needs some tweaking though. The demon possessed man's pose is definitely gonna need work and I see what you mean. It needs more emphasis on pain and it needs to be more contorted. I will do so for sure. I already have some things in mind. His face will probably be covered with long greasy hair. He doesn't go to the barber for a trim very much! For the perspective, I've tried what you mentioned and it didn't work for me because the figures dominated TOO MUCH that way and the mountains and background got eclipsed. I agree that the sky needs more space to accomodate a legion of demons so I plan to zoom out and be looking down on Jesus and the demon possessed man some.

Once again, thanks so much! Many of the things you mentioned have helped me I can assure you!

10-05-2005, 06:34 AM
angel - here is a shot of the scene from below. I just wanted to point out how it kills my lake and moutains - which I want to have in the scene! I'm sure I could make a perspective like this work... but its just not what I originally had envisioned. I want to stick with my original general vision.

By the way, I cringe looking at this picture because of the damage that was done to the model in the process of posing! I sure wish I had rigging and posing experience! But that will come... after this challenge I want to learn about animation!

10-05-2005, 07:57 PM (

Here's a sample of what I'm wanting to convey in terms of the flocking of the pigs and demons. Crits appreciated!

10-05-2005, 08:11 PM
Hi gardogg, Nice work. I think that you could to change the angle camera, maybe a little to down, i think could better. Well, it's my opinion

10-05-2005, 09:16 PM
denverbs - I agree that the camera should be down a bit. The key in my opinion is finding a balance between being able to see a lot of sky and mountains and being able to look down at the water, while at the same time being able to see the two central figures well. So how does this look: \/

10-05-2005, 09:17 PM (

Here's a little update with a lower camera angle. I think it is better than the last camera angle.

10-06-2005, 06:04 AM (

I managed to salvage a lot of the anatomically correct musculature after tweaking the posed figure and changing the pose for EVER! :banghead: I have finally come to a point where I'm beginning to feel satisfied with how it is looking. If anyone can spot some areas that look wrong, please say something.

10-06-2005, 06:21 AM (

Here's a render of the pose with the angle that I think the viewer will have.

CJ Crave
10-06-2005, 10:50 AM

I'm very impressed. This is a great concept and your work seems to be coming along wonderfully.


10-06-2005, 06:19 PM
Thanks c. That is encouraging!

10-06-2005, 08:22 PM
his pose looks good now gardogg- can't really see any problems.those pigsand demons are going to look crazy!

10-06-2005, 09:50 PM
Thanks shakes! I can't wait to make them... but I sure hope I won't have to spend SO MUCH time posing them like I did with this man. Maybe I should pose a lower poly mesh before adding muscle next time? We'll see.

10-07-2005, 06:09 AM (

Today I read a bunch of stuff on lighting. I want to create effective mood and lighting is very important for that. This is a quick test I did before calling it a night. I will be working on lighting MUCH MORE. Don't worry ;) I am proud to have created my first light ever in cg! I have always used default lights up until now. So EXCITING! Oh, I also did the water today. I used the ocean shader and it actually looks decent to me with default settings alone!

10-07-2005, 07:27 AM
Your posing looks much better now, I find nothing to crit:thumbsup: . And I agree that the bit lower camera position fits best. I' m curious to see where your lighting will go - the main impression of it now is that it is very yellow...but this is easy to fix:)


10-07-2005, 01:29 PM
Hi, the composition being well, i also liked the positions of the characters. I think that you could increase a bit the lights or, add more lights. Ex: you could to work with three point lights. The key light in front a bit left or right the subject, other a little intensity, left or right of the subject and other behind the characters with more intensity, perhaps be better. Sorry for my english. Good luck

10-07-2005, 03:20 PM
Thanks dawinky. The light maybe is too yellow. I'll have to look into that. Should it be more orange?

denverbs - Thanks! As far as the traditional 3 point light, I cannot do this because the scene is being lit by the opening in the clouds behind the characters. This means that my key light will be behind the characters. I agree that I need to get some reflected light so bring out the areas that are black right now.

Here are some references I've found for outdoor backlighting

As you can see, there is a lot of ambient light outdoors in real life, so the deep dark shadows that I have right now are overexaggerated. I will definitely have to add more lights!

10-08-2005, 05:20 AM (

I decided that it was time to customize my sky background. I worked right over the sky picture to create a fully customized sky. I used photoshop and my wacom tablet. I would appreciate crits. This is the first time I've ever done something like this!

10-09-2005, 01:08 AM
Nice paint. I think a bit yellow, perhaps you could put more gray on the extremities and the yellow in the center, perhaps be more natural, no?

look this

10-09-2005, 01:16 AM
I agree with you there. After looking at it today, I am going to have to revise quite a bit... Thank you denverbs.

10-09-2005, 02:36 AM
Hey Gary you really are a hard worker, what a great progress! sorry for not checking back earlier, was kept a bit busy here as well :)

the POV actually works quiet well and i can make out your plan clearly. Looks great to me, and also you done a great tweaking job.

Your attemp to paint the sky is great, nice start. the liquified part actually looks a bit strange. rays casted trough "holes in the clouds" can be easily done by making a new layer, set mode to screen and drag a radial gradient white to transparent from the hole over down to earth (using the lineslasso for the selection). this also has the favour you can adjust easily the oppacity and play with different modes, hard/soft light color doge/screen, til you like the result, you also can blur the rays without having an alloverblur.

I'd try a more calm sky cuz it otherwise will drag away the attention from the mainscene and i guess the leaving legion will add enough action and movement itself :)

keep up your great work, 5d rocker! *feelin' lazy now :blush: * Again, fantastic progress, hold the pace :buttrock: :wip: :beer:

10-09-2005, 06:27 AM
the1st_angel - Thanks! You've thrown another log onto my fire! I appreciate your comments. I agree about the liquified part looking strange. That's gonna be the first thing to go! I will look into the way that you are describing for the ray of light. You make a good point when you say that it should slowly fade as it gets further from the light source. I forgot all about that! I will do all I can to hold the pace!

I agree that the sky is a little too loud right now. I will tone it down significantly.

10-09-2005, 06:40 AM
hei gardogg

man great progress here! specialy nice model and the muscles!:thumbsup: not much into painting though i think it will come out nice!

cheer's mate! and thanks for the ref --- well appreciated!:)

10-09-2005, 05:33 PM
yunisirees - thanks. I hope the sky turns out nice. So much left to do... :banghead:

10-10-2005, 01:49 AM (

This is the most frustrating thing in the WORLD! :banghead:

I am on my 3rd official attempt at painting a sky background. I didn't post the 2nd attempt (which I worked on for 2 hours before erasing it). I'm trying different brushes, I'm trying different opacities and brush sizes, I'm trying to zoom way in, zoom all the way out, you name it. I just can't get this sucker to look realistic at all. Its so important to my scene though so I must push on...

10-10-2005, 02:24 AM (

Here's some more progress. Not sure if this method will work. Crits appreciated!

10-10-2005, 02:53 AM
Ok it's good, is alot better. But, are you want to doing a realistic scene? If yes, i think that is with a paint visual, no? Good work, i'm waiting to see more :thumbsup:

10-10-2005, 03:23 AM
Denverbs - thanks. I'm doing my best to make this sky realistic - and everything else realistic for that matter. However, I'm limited by my artistic inexperience. I had no clue how hard it is to make photo-real clouds by hand. Now I know! Hopefully, some day I will be able to. In the mean time, I'd rather do my best and make my own background paintings than use a photo of a sky...

10-10-2005, 03:25 AM (

Okay, here is what I have come up with. If anyone can point out some specific areas where I can improve this sky, I will be very appreciative!

10-10-2005, 12:20 PM
You are doing fine so far! As for your sky, you could lighten the edges of the clouds, where the sun breaks through and then blur the sky a bit (not too much) to give it a softer look. Blurring it will help bring more focus on the main characters in the scene. :thumbsup:

10-10-2005, 02:06 PM
Thanks Craig. You make some good points. I will definitely do that!

10-10-2005, 05:18 PM
I guess you are going the right way with your post effects and compositing, but there maucm more work needed.

10-10-2005, 06:24 PM
suk-grigorij - Thanks for the reply. I just labeled it post effects and compositing because I didn't know of a better category to put this under... Maybe I should have put it under texturing? This sky definitely needs work I agree. Any tips are very much appreciated. The brush I'm using maybe still isn't the right one... I need something that looks more "cloudy" and not so "airbushy." I will keep toying with the sky until I get it right. I'm not GIVING UP!

10-10-2005, 06:29 PM (

Here's some more tweaking. I hope I'm getting a bit closer to realism. I blurred it a bit but probably not enough. When I give it too much of a gaussian blur, it looks like crap... so I guess I'll have to blend and blur by zooming in and painting with a smaller brush with a lower opacity.

10-10-2005, 07:45 PM
I think you're doing well, it looks great, but skys are immensely difficult to recreate in paint. have you thought of using a photo? that way you could concentrate on the main elements like the demons etc. just a thought.

10-10-2005, 07:49 PM
impressive concept, I like what you've done so far.

10-10-2005, 09:10 PM
Shakes - that idea has its merit. However, I can tell you positively that if I did decide to simply use a photo of a sky, I would be admitting to failure and giving up. Right now, the skies I've posted are inadequate to say the least. However, I've learned something on each attempt. I'm gonna stick with it. Maybe go with a simpler sky though... I'm starting over with a new idea this time. I plan to post something new today.

Big D - thanks man.

10-10-2005, 09:29 PM (

I decided that I should do a little more research and come up with something based on several different skies. I've found a lot of pictures as shown here. Each one has something that I would like to capture in my final sky. Wish me luck!

10-10-2005, 09:58 PM (

I've added several lights from all different angles with very low intensity in order to light the characters the way a dark sky would. However, it still seems like we're only getting a silhouette. Any suggestions? I just can't imagine the characters being lit fully and clearly with such a dark sky! I don't know what to do yet.

10-11-2005, 02:14 AM (

Here is my latest attempt at clouds. I think this one will work. Just have to develop it further in places...

10-11-2005, 04:38 AM (

I am near finishing the clouds. I'm starting to feel satisfied with them. I only need to add some more light below them and a little more glow light above them.

10-11-2005, 01:12 PM
I think you're on the right way with painting your sky:) . If you've never done this before, it might be helpful to take a look at some photoshop tutorials. You find thousands of them on the web, just as an example this:


10-11-2005, 01:55 PM
daWinky - thanks for the tip. I actually have already read through that tutorial. That was the only one I found when I google searched.

10-12-2005, 04:51 AM (

Here is the latest pose work I did on the demon possessed man. This also is the lighting that I have come up with. I decided I want the main directional light with a number of very subtle blue lights to represent reflections of light off the clouds and dark atmosphere. I have now reached the point where I feel that this is the best I can do without some feedback. If there are any critiques or suggestions, I'd appreciate it.

10-12-2005, 11:24 PM
The pose is good. About the lights, i think a bit dark. I know that you want to do a dark and dramatic scene, but i think that you could increase a bit the scene illumination. Are you using GI? Sorry for may english. Keep it up :thumbsup:

10-13-2005, 01:42 AM
Denverbs - thanks for the reply. I am using GI and FG. I will definitely bear in mind your suggestion on the lighting. Nothing is final yet. I just have to keep going and see what happens.

10-13-2005, 09:54 PM
Somehow I feel lighting looks fine, just little more contrast:) It aslo depends wether it is gonna be evening, afternoon or night scene.

Over great progress dude:thumbsup:

10-13-2005, 10:29 PM
Thanks madshooter. I kind of like the effect that this lighting gives, however, I can see how if I beef up the blue lights in the shadows it will give a bit more detail. So I went ahead and added a tiny bit more light.

10-13-2005, 11:12 PM (

This is gonna be quite a challenge. I'm modeling the robe down to the tiniest wrinkles and I also want to suggest the wind that will be blowing in my scene. This means that it has to hug his legs tightly and have a natural looking flow. This will be fun for me.

10-14-2005, 01:38 AM (

Here is some more progress. This is fun stuff!

10-14-2005, 04:02 AM (

Slowly, the robe is progressing. Considering this is my first time modeling clothing, I am happy with how it is coming along so far. Crits welcome.

10-14-2005, 06:09 AM (

Finally, I've tweaked the robe from the waist down to my heart's content ;) Tomorrow I shall do the rest of it!

10-14-2005, 08:42 AM
Hey man. the only thing making this guy look odd is the length of his arms - they need to be longer.

Nice robe, love the way it hugs the legs. Be good to see it smoothed...


10-14-2005, 10:47 AM
The cloth is looking really nice, but I agree with Swamps, your character's anatomy could use some more tweaking. I would usually make the shoulders a bit broader. The muscle definition is very nice though.

About the lighting, I would probably leave it to later, when you have your colours more final. Right now it's looking a bit dark, but I like the rim going on there. Maybe a few more lights in front will help with brightness.

Hope I helped, cheers!

10-14-2005, 03:35 PM
Swamps - Thanks for the reply! I'm not sure if the arms looking short is due to the parallax effect? When I made them, I traced the length from a photo... I'll still consider lengthening them though. Thanks for the crit!

Keetmun - I agree about the lights. I will definitely consider broadening the shoulders some. When you say "the anatomy needs a bit more tweaking," do you have some more specific ideas? Thanks for the help!

10-14-2005, 04:50 PM (

Thanks to Swamps and keetmun, I have corrected the arms. I cannot believe what an improvement lengthening the arms and fixing the lats has made. This is a before and after picture. Thanks guys for helping me out!

10-14-2005, 06:48 PM
very nice cloth, but nobody will notice that while hands on that figure are too short and looking like rubber doll:] tweak tweak tweak, ref ref ref, bones here and here, muscles there and there:P

edit: your shoulder line and pelvis are horizontal. normally, achieving that takes some effort, and nobody does that, unless they have to. you've raised the arm, so raise a shoulder. twist pelvis to raise it above the leg on which he holds most of his weight. spine then bends a bit to interpolate between shoulder and pelvis twists

10-14-2005, 07:57 PM
Uiron - you are absolutely right about the pose. I will post an update soon with your suggestions implemented. The hand is pretty low poly. I intended to zbrush it. I don't know for sure if I will yet. Depends on how much detail is going to be seen given the lighting I have in the scene. As far as the hand being too short... I did trace the hand using a scan of my hand, however, I will look into it.

10-14-2005, 08:25 PM (

I think that this sculpture is a great example of the s-curve that I will need to create - Thanks Uiron!

10-14-2005, 08:43 PM (

I think the pose looks more on target now. I also have scaled up the hands so they aren't so small anymore. Keep the crits coming!

10-14-2005, 09:12 PM
proportions of hand length are very simple: when hand is lowered, elbow matches navel, and fingertips can reach middle of a hip. palm with fingers are same length as face is (from hairline to chin). looking into picture, you break every rule a bit. maybe that's just an odd viewing angle, don't know.

10-14-2005, 09:17 PM
though you probably won't be remodeling the cloth, just a reminder for the future (i did the same mistake with my conductor) : people tend to use opposite leg for active hand. not the rule of thumb, but it looks like it works most of the time. try standing in this pose yourself, and you'll see that you will hold your weight on the opposite leg to the raised hand.

10-14-2005, 10:27 PM
Thanks again Uiron. Those proportional rules of thumb are interesting. I'll bear them in mind. You have a good point about the weight shift direction. I think I'm gonna leave it how it is this time. I tried out the pose myself and the weight shift both ways felt pretty natural... In the end, the view will be a side view anyways. Thank you for your help and I hope to see you in my thread again!

10-14-2005, 11:28 PM
hi gardogg

nice cloth modeling man!:thumbsup: hmm i think his left shoulder a bit too smooth ( the downward arm). and still that arm looks a bit short ... i dunno maybe the angle is playing tricks on the eye!
cheers man!

10-15-2005, 05:37 AM
yunisirees - I appreciate your crits. I will definitely look into the shoulder issue. The arm may be too short but I'm betting its just the angle. I'm happy to see you guys like the cloth modeling! I'm encouraged by that!

10-15-2005, 01:38 PM
Hi gardogg, cool work, especially with the clothes.

I liked the pose, but i think that have a some thing strange. When we lift up the arms, the chest also lift together, i understand? You also could work a bit on the neck area, have a little strange distortion there, my opinion.

Also have a problem on the left shoulder, maybe you could to paint the skin weight on that area or adjust the pole vector, if you have been to use the ik handle.

Tha anatomy is so good, how i said. I'm talking this because i think that you'll to do a great scene. Keep it up :thumbsup:

10-15-2005, 08:24 PM
Thanks denverbz. I agree about the neck and will look into the chest issue you mentioned. I just came up with a new strategy for seeing what poses look like - take off my shirt and pose in front of the mirror! Duh! Why surf on google forever to see a certain pose for a certain muscle taken from a certain angle when you can just pose in front of the mirror? I appreciate your encouragement!

10-15-2005, 08:27 PM (

For those of you who have said that the left arm looks too short, I decided to post the arm from this angle. I think it looks about right here. If you can picture it rotating down, it would end just below mid thigh I think - which is accurate. Let me know if it still looks too short.

10-15-2005, 11:28 PM
Hey Gary,

It looks like you are making good progress on your character:thumbsup: , I like the progression I am seeing with your fixes here and there.. I do think in the front view pose the head and neck look a little off centered, maybe move the neck a bit to the left. The cloth modeling looks good and keep up the good work.

10-15-2005, 11:39 PM
terrific work on that robe- a difficult job, but you did it very well!

10-16-2005, 12:27 AM
mmoir and shakes - thanks! I hope to have the robe done asap and the body is undergoing heavy tweaking today. Updates coming right up!

10-16-2005, 12:32 AM (

I stuck the eyes back on and did quite a few tweaks on the face. It is no longer perfectly symmetrical because I merged the halves a while back, however, asymmetry will make it look more realistic I think. As long as its not WAY too asymmetrical. I set up some lights for this shot just for practice.

10-16-2005, 01:05 AM (

I've smoothed the abs slightly, corrected the nipples, raised the pec with the raised arm, corrected the bad neck deformation, fixed his left shoulder, redefined his traps, and thickened his forearms. I think I've fixed everything that was critiqued so far. I thank you guys for the help. Keep the crits coming!

10-16-2005, 02:27 AM (

I've begun modeling the upper half of the robe. Crits welcome as always!

10-16-2005, 02:35 AM
When you say "the anatomy needs a bit more tweaking," do you have some more specific ideas? Thanks for the help!

Well it looks like you've got all the help you need right now! :scream: Yup I agree with all the crits the others gave, and posing in front of the mirror is a good idea. I think your mesh alone looks pretty good as it is.

Anatomy is something that requires practice, and is very hard to get right. I myself am still working on it, but it looks like you're headed in the right direction, keep at it and you'll become a pro in no time!

As for lighting, it's a good idea to use the base colour of your objects, so you get a pretty good idea how your final image turns out. So in your case you should probably use some flat skin tone for your character, just to test out your lighting. I like the rim you have, but again maybe a bit more frontal lights! :thumbsup:

Rock on mate

10-16-2005, 02:41 AM
Hi gardogg. I liked the right arm, but in this angle camera, the left arm not is good. You could to try puting her on three-quarter pose, just a test. keep going :thumbsup:

10-16-2005, 02:51 AM
Keetmun - I appreciate what you said to me. You're kind. I agree about using skin tones when testing for final lighting. The lighting I was messing around with for those past couple of updates was only experimentation. It has nothing to do with the lighting that will actually be used in my scene. As a matter of fact, I'm doing all of this modeling and rendering outside of the file where my scene is because my scene is already getting too heavy to work in!

Denverbs - The final pose will be 3/4 pose. I agree that the arm looks kind of weird in that picture due to the angle. Thanks for stopping by!

10-16-2005, 03:20 AM (

I'm pretty sure I've got the anatomy of the shoulder, pecs, face, and neck worked out now. I think this is a good angle. Crits on it appreciated.

10-16-2005, 06:01 AM (

Here is the tie on the robe. It took forever to make this without any overlapping geometry. I'm making the entire robe from the waist up as one piece just to challenge myself!

10-16-2005, 06:56 AM (

My last progress shot for the day. Here is the cross over piece. Its not done yet but this is the basic form. I'm getting nearer to robe completion! Woohoo!

10-16-2005, 03:40 PM
Very nice modeling on the robe! And good progress on the character over all - it's a great concept to use Jesus - I think it's the first I've seen so far.
Good luck with texturing :thumbsup:

10-16-2005, 03:46 PM
it's abvious that you have spent time on this thing....and it's turned out really great.
btw, are you going to Use Facial Expressions? cuaz that would do magic for your scene....Good Luck Gary and Help me with my Challenge too Pal:D :thumbsup:

10-17-2005, 06:52 AM
Gunilla - Thanks alot. I don't know how much concern I will be putting into detailed texturing due to the fact that the scene is backlit. But I'll throw something together just for some practice I suppose!

3rd User - I appreciate you stopping by. I will definitely post in your thread - I'm glad to help you out. You're doing a good job and making good progress. Facial expressions are something I have not forgotten about. Jesus has a neutral expression, but I kind of like it. I furrowed his brow a bit though to make him look serious. I don't think he would be really mad or sad so there isn't much to do with his facial expression. The demon possessed man would be in pain... I guess I'll put that in his expression. Maybe yelling out in pain?

10-17-2005, 07:14 AM
I've followed first steps of your guy... and now, that's comes very good Gary... congrats...
Really good shape for the toga... I like the movment of it...

..I hope to see more soon... :thumbsup:

10-17-2005, 08:21 AM
hi! glad to see 5d man! hehe ! nice modeling so far! there are some point on his arm , I think it is too skiny , your cloth modeling is great! good luck mate!

10-17-2005, 06:43 PM
Lemog - Thank you for your reply. I'm encouraged.

Monsit - 5d is the way to go! I'll look into the arm some more. Not sure where you are refering to, but I'll take a close look and see if I can spot the problem.

10-17-2005, 08:41 PM
fantastic modelling!! ( (

10-17-2005, 11:04 PM
Shakes - thanks man!

10-17-2005, 11:09 PM
Hi gadogg, good work, i'm happy that you got it:bounce:. What is the next step? texturing,hair? :hmm: keep it up man. :thumbsup:

10-17-2005, 11:22 PM
The drappery work looks great. My only crit besides of what everyone have already told you is that to me the shoulder joint might be in the wrong place. Notice the left arm and how it is bending; it looks like the arm is going through the torso. If it isn't the joint in the wrong place then it could be a weighting issue.

keep going!

10-17-2005, 11:44 PM
denverbs - thanks. I'm thinking I should do the hair next since that will be a big struggle - especially since both characters will have long blowing hair and beards and mustaches and eyebrows and eyelashes :banghead:

snows - I read your critique four times now and have carefully looked at the model and I still don't think I understand what you are saying. Can you draw something or explain it differently? I'm not even sure I know which arm you are refering to. The viewer's left arm or the character's left arm? Thanks for taking the time to reply! I guess I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed ;)

10-19-2005, 04:49 AM
Uiron - what you said to me about the character needing to lean opposite his active hand has been bothering me! Today when I stumbled into this, it was a big relief. According to this famous statue, it is "permittable" to have the character lean toward his active hand! Just thought I would share this ;)

10-19-2005, 06:41 AM
Cloth modeling looks real cool dude:thumbsup:

Keep going:thumbsup:

10-19-2005, 11:19 PM
Thnx madshooter

10-20-2005, 04:50 AM (

Robe cape done.

10-20-2005, 04:59 AM (

Another view

10-20-2005, 05:01 AM (

Another view

10-20-2005, 05:05 AM (

Okay, I'm excited to have the robe completely done. There are some places that look a bit blocky though. I think I will smooth it still. But the modeling is done! Now its time to move on.

By the way, please tell me if you spot something amiss with the anatomy! You have all helped me a ton in this so far and I appreciate it.

10-20-2005, 08:41 AM
Clothes look great ! Nice job gary !

10-20-2005, 01:50 PM
Thanks gpepper. How is the anatomy!?

10-20-2005, 05:38 PM (

That's totally amazing,Good job on the robe:thumbsup: ...just that you know,there is this one thing on the upper right of the navel's character,it's kinda sharp to me, anyway, it's just to me:)
Keep it up

10-20-2005, 05:56 PM
I agree, you did a godd work with the cloth. :thumbsup:

10-20-2005, 05:57 PM
I agree, you did a good work with the cloth. :thumbsup:

10-20-2005, 11:00 PM
3rd user - thanks. I will look into the navel. No pun intended hahaha! :)

denverbs - Thanks! Hopefully, I can pull off the hair with success!

10-20-2005, 11:23 PM
hiya gardoggi think now the model looks fine if not great! and the cloth work is superb! just need to texture it man! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: !

cheers man! ur doing it great :thumbsup: !

10-21-2005, 02:31 AM
yunisirees - thanks man! I'm doing my very best here. We'll see what I can do! Your's is looking great too!

10-21-2005, 02:33 AM (

Here is a concept sketch I made for the hair. I would appreciate it if anyone can offer me some suggestions for improvement. If it is already good as is, that's cool too!

10-21-2005, 04:14 AM
that cape is really awesome!! at this stage the hair looks about right I think. I guess the real test will be seeing it more finished. look forward to it!

10-21-2005, 04:19 AM
Thanks shakes! I will do my best with the hair... Never really tried paint effects hair before though. We'll see!

10-21-2005, 02:31 PM
that's a good looking hair...what version of maya are you using?
keep it up:thumbsup:

10-21-2005, 03:05 PM
3rd user - thanks. I'm using maya 6.5

10-21-2005, 04:30 PM (

Here is the first two hair strands. I have figured out how to model the hair using nurbs curves with a paint effects brush stroke attached to them and a nurbs circle - the hair heart. Using this method, I can place with great precision strands of about 10 hairs. This may not be the fastest way, however, I'm gonna try it out. I didn't really like the maya dynamic hair since for some reason it bogs down my computer... This method gives much more control over the look of the hair anyways.

This hair looks a bit too golden I know, but that is because of the harsh lighting. I can change that later. I chose to use "wet curls" as my hair type. Should hopefully work!

10-21-2005, 08:37 PM
this will be interesting to watch!

10-21-2005, 08:41 PM
Thanks shakes. It should be interesting to do! If I can just get my stupid homework done!

10-22-2005, 05:44 AM (

I know this isn't really much of an update because I didn't have time today... But I just wanted to point out that I am excited to see that with only 3 strands of hair, ALREADY, the body of that hair is starting to take shape and it looks pretty cool to me. I definitely recommend people to look into this:

which is the great tutorial that I owe my hair modeling method to.

10-22-2005, 08:03 AM
Great work with the cloth, Gary! The hair looks like on its right way and you nailed his eyes very well - I can almost feel him looking at me in the close up. Nice progress! :thumbsup:

10-22-2005, 03:32 PM
Hey gadogg, good work with the hair and you did a nice work on the face, is very expressive. Congrats :thumbsup:

10-22-2005, 10:14 PM (

Here is some more lighting work. I decided to create a reflected glow off the man to the left so that Jesus will be lit better and look more dramatic. Suggestions welcome as usual.

By the way, I rendered the background separately form the figures so that they could have separate lighting from one another. I then had to put them on separate layers in photoshop and erase away the black background. This method was terrible since I erased by hand and messed everything up. Not to mention it took forever. So... I think I should render a "occlusion" layer for magic wand selection purposes. This way I can delete away unwanted parts easily. Hope that made sense. I feel like I'm reinventing the wheel here since I've never had any training in compositing...

10-23-2005, 11:28 AM
This will be one massively spectacular scene! Cheers and good luck! :beer: Ivan

10-23-2005, 04:34 PM
The ideea it`s impressive, let`s see how you will finish the project, good luck :thumbsup:

10-23-2005, 05:08 PM
I can't wait to see the final image, this is really looking spectacular.
Keep up the good work.

Really need to get started, but I going try this week. Since going to have lot work to do get this done.

10-23-2005, 08:41 PM
action hank - thanks man!

Equilibrium - thanks!

crimson eye - thanks. Good luck on yours.

10-23-2005, 08:43 PM (

Okay, I figured out why I had the weird specularity on the hair. I got it to look darker now and I'm glad! It is starting to take shape now!

10-23-2005, 08:50 PM
Very Interesting Stuff Again Gary, Keep it up mate.
btw,the tutorial is Cool ! :) i wanna use Hair though, not paintFX....i haven't used it yet,but i guess it's gonna be cool. My hair is gonna be Long too:thumbsup: Good Luck

10-23-2005, 08:54 PM
@ 3rd user - Hair is frustrating to me and when I used it on a model a couple months ago it really bogged down my scene. From what I've seen, hair and paint fx are the same thing except hair has the capability of dynamic simulation for animation and you have to dynamically similate it falling into place and freeze it where you want it... I don't even want to get into Hair... very annoying to work with but if you want to try it out I won't stop you! I'm sure that with more experience with it, I would get rid of the frustration. I'm probably just using Hair wrong.

10-23-2005, 10:36 PM (

I've just run into a major problem! When I render paint effects hair in the maya software renderer, you can see the hair through the model of the head! Does anyone have a solution?

By the way, if I convert the hair to polys, it ends up being 1 million polys and when I render this it looks like crap.

10-24-2005, 04:28 AM (

Here's a wire of the hair so far. I'm getting very close to being done with it. Just need some more key strands as well as a few more layers underneath the outer layers.

Again, someone please: does anyone know the solution to the question I asked in the above post?!

10-24-2005, 05:14 AM (

I'm such a noob that I'm getting all excited over creating the start of a beard. Considering creation of 3d hair has always been a big mystery to me, this is very exciting stuff. For the first time I'm making some hair! WOOHOO!

10-24-2005, 07:11 AM
You're doin'g pretty fine as for the first time. Hair shape looks very good. You could increase number and spread of hair samples. -cheers

10-24-2005, 02:09 PM
thanks the_fgdf. I agree about the increasing # and spread idea. I will definitely have to do that. If I do that, I won't have to place so many hair paths by hand...

SO does anyone know why rendering the paint effects hair gives me an image where I see hair that should be BEHIND the head? (see a few posts up)

10-24-2005, 03:40 PM
SO does anyone know why rendering the paint effects hair gives me an image where I see hair that should be BEHIND the head? (see a few posts up)
Paint Effects is post effects... Maya apply it when the render is done... some artefacts (and decay) can appear in this case... (it's worse in animation)...
...the better solution is to render separately these PaintFX and to composite them after... that give you better lattitude to correct these artefacts.

10-24-2005, 05:52 PM
Thanks Lemog! I thought that maybe there was a bug on my computer or something but apparently, paint effects is the problem! I will definitely follow your advice and render it out separately. Its too bad the programmers didn't use some more common sense and fix this issue... Oh well!