View Full Version : Spectacular 3D Entry: David Marsh

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09 September 2005, 09:33 AM
David Marsh is entered in the "Spectacular Challenge" update: View Challenge Page (

Latest Update: Rendering: Latest Render (

09 September 2005, 09:59 AM
good luck Swamps

09 September 2005, 10:23 AM
nice to see you again David... after the wonderful work of M&S I will follow your new experience ! Good luck !

09 September 2005, 10:48 AM
Good thing you are here David, best wishes for you :beer:

09 September 2005, 11:17 AM
good luck and have fun. swamps!


09 September 2005, 11:47 AM
Nice to see U in this challenge ! I hope U will make some crazy stuff again ! :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 12:13 PM
Hello all,

I wonder if anyone ever sets out to produce any peice of art without thinking "I'm gonna make this one truely spectacular"...

Nevertheless I like the fact that it is open to people of all skillsets, rather than focusing purely on characters, vehicles or environments, anyone who's knows my work will know what route i'll be taking. :)

This is certainly going to be a good one.

Right now i'm thinking along the lines of a daring helicopter rescue. A miltary type guy reaching down, grabbing the wrist of a female colleague as she plugs one last bad guy whilst being plucked from the jaws of certain doom.

I'm thinking of a third person perspective behind the dude looking down the girl to the frenzy of death below. Dunno if it'll be with fictional creatures or contemporary enemy troops. Dunno if i'll even go this way, but it looks good in my head so i'll knock a concept up tonight.

Good luck to everyone and happy competing. Our lives have meaning once again... for three months at least ;)


09 September 2005, 02:31 PM
I've been developing this idea in my head and have composed the following written description to accompany my image which will be set in the milliseconds after this text:

In desperation she continued to pull on a trigger now devoid of consequence, the regrettably sound advice to save the last bullet for her herself a vivid, petulant memory. This was it. This was the end.
They had all thought the roof would offer them asylum, a refuge from the horror of the streets below. They were right. A Trojan terror came from within; the wound concealed until the poison took terminal hold. Now, every one of her former allies writhed before her a mortal enemy. All but one.

It had been three hell slowed hours since he had left. From her breached redoubt above the blood soaked citadel she could fathom no possible escape, no way to summon help. Surely he was now of them. In life they shared everything, in death she would not share his fate.

Edging ever closer to oblivion she took a final, dizzying glance down. The assessment was commendably opposed to the insanity of the situation: "High enough to do the job"; her penultimate thought. She would save the last one for him.

It wasn't a jump. More so she let her body go limp, welcoming gravity to do what it has always done best.

It very nearly did...

09 September 2005, 06:16 AM
hi david .. thats one nice concept ..and welcome again to another spectacular challenge :)!

as for me having nightmares of spiders and little birds :D!

09 September 2005, 07:22 AM
The small written description rocks... sound that something very interesting and strong !

09 September 2005, 04:53 PM (

Ok, I knocked this together with the Character Studio biped and planned to do a sketched version of it, but then I thought - Nah, sod it! I'm not entering the 2D comp so i'm sure this'll suffice and I can get on with the good stuff :)

Here's a repost of the accompanying text as it stands so far:

In desperation she continued to pull on a trigger now devoid of consequence, the regrettably sound advice to save the last bullet for her herself a vivid, petulant memory. This was it. This was the end.

They had all thought the roof would offer them asylum, a refuge from the horror of the streets below. They were right. A Trojan terror came from within; the wound concealed until the poison took terminal hold. Now, every one of her former allies writhed before her a mortal enemy. All but one.

It had been three hell slowed hours since he had left. From her breached redoubt above the blood soaked citadel she could fathom no possible escape, no way to summon help. Surely he was now of them. In life they shared everything, in death she would not share his fate.

Edging ever closer to oblivion she took a final, dizzying glance down. The assessment was commendably opposed to the insanity of the situation: "High enough to do the job"; her penultimate thought. She would save the last one for him.

It wasn't a jump. More so she let her body go limp, welcoming gravity to do what it has always done best.

It very nearly did...

09 September 2005, 10:19 PM
hey good idea, i want to se more in the future:eek:

09 September 2005, 10:40 PM
That's sounds very impressive like that... thanks for the story... next steps will be certainly very interesting, good continuation David... :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 11:44 PM
Nice concept David :D Looks like a poster even with only bipeds. Maybe she should be glimpsing at where she's shooting??

Best of luck :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 12:34 AM
Very cool
With your character creating skills this is sure to be a good piece. good luck

09 September 2005, 03:18 AM
Oh...very cool idea indeed. Looking very promising. The image portrays excitement as well which Is why I like it.


09 September 2005, 04:51 AM
Very cool shot, I like it alote.

09 September 2005, 04:56 AM
Extremely well written concept. I already love it. The story really sets this up to be one terrific, dare I say, spectacular entry...

I am definately going to follow this one!

09 September 2005, 09:11 AM
Hi all, I'm very glad to hear that people are digging this concept.

Just to clear a couple of things up...

She's not going to be shooting. The gun is empty, adding to the desperation of the situation. She's still holding it but only loosly, about to let it fall from her grasp as she jumped from the building. This'll be more apparent in the final image (I hope...).

The falling chap will be holding one of her shoes to suggest that as she was pulled upwards he was able to grab her foot but the shoe came off and he's falling back down. Her other shoe will still be on to help reinforce this idea.

I might try to tweak the camera angle a bit to see more of the city being destroyed (spectaulcarly of course). I'm also considering a reflection of the guy reaching from the helicopter in the window of a building opposite - would be a nice touch. Maybe a shadow would suffice. Hmmmm.....

All in all a lot of work.

Thanks for the support for the idea, I should have some models to post soon. I made as start on the falling zombie last night.

Catch you all soon,

09 September 2005, 09:15 AM
love the idea, and looking at the maquette excellent pov ... (fit exposé cover, lol !)
:wip: good work !

09 September 2005, 09:18 AM
try to oppiste side of view I think good view ..Sorry for my eng....

09 September 2005, 11:51 AM
Jddog - Hahaha! Touché ;)

Tolga - Not sure what you're suggesting exactly. Are you saying I should flip the composition horizontally?

Cheers for your comments.

09 September 2005, 11:57 AM
Really great idea Swamps!
nice sketch too ;)
good luck!

09 September 2005, 06:22 PM (

Here's the wire of the Zombie's head...

09 September 2005, 06:29 PM (

And here's a smoothed version. He looks like quite a pleasant chap doesn't he?

Not for long! His face is going to be screwed up in an evil grimace but, as I'll probably re-use thee heads topology for several other zombies, i've modellled him with a fairly neutral expression.

09 September 2005, 07:25 PM
nice head, me like... keep your work up :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 08:23 PM
u are one fast charactar modeler ! cool head :) ... about the angle how about a fish eye but not too extreme effect? in this way u could show more area maybe even show the sky and a little more of the building with the reflections ?

09 September 2005, 12:02 AM
The ears don't quite look right. They seem squashed. A great start! Good luck!

09 September 2005, 12:14 AM
looks like fun when you get to textures

09 September 2005, 12:44 AM
hey Swamps! nice to see the return of u mate... love ur works... and the concept u got goin here is superb... could really turn out a very energy, fear and emotion fillied image!! this ould be very interesting to follow... the head is looking good so far. The forhead is looking bit too flat rite now... anyways keep up the good works... and good luck

c ya around :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 02:36 AM
Oooo...nice head....veyr good flow you have on the head as well.. Keep up the great work..

09 September 2005, 02:56 AM
Ok David! Accepted:thumbsup: Fine idea. Zombie guy's head is a nice start..Let it comin. Am sure your HQ work will be realized as well as your other projs. Cya mate.

09 September 2005, 06:50 AM
I'm impressed on your ability to generete organic models... :applause: very nice head

09 September 2005, 07:45 AM
This guy seem for the moment too "normal" and nice for a zombie, no ? but I'm sure you reserve it a special horror treatment :wip: hahaha

09 September 2005, 08:48 AM
Yes ..Swamps is in da house....:bounce:

:bounce: ...have fun mate!

09 September 2005, 10:44 AM
Way, loads of good comments.

To answer the specific points:

yunisirees - cheers man, like the fish-eye idea i'll look into it.

Nichod - Good point, i'll fix that. Thanks for pointing that out.

overcontrast - Yeah, it is a bit now you mention it. I'll look at that too. Cheers man.

Lemog - He certainly is looking far to nice for a zombie. I'm working on 'eviling' him right up. It's going pretty well, i'll post it shortly.

Cheers guys, update coming shortly...

09 September 2005, 12:44 PM (

...and he used to be such a nice boy!

09 September 2005, 02:04 PM
Hmm...Anger, gore, rotten? Will you work with Zb or paint displace maps separately?

09 September 2005, 02:46 PM
not bad not bad at all... infact this is coming along really well...i'm following this one :thumbsup: o one thing i might point out to u,is the lower lip looks a bit unnatural... keep goin :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 03:10 PM
To be onest it looks very standart angry face... probably this is due at the absence of the eye and some face elemets, but probably some more emphasis on the expression can help to create more dynamism... just a though at this point. Probably is a little bit early to tell that, just my pov. In any case the model looks very good !

09 September 2005, 03:14 PM
nice head model i like it but...a question...thats the final expesion?:shrug:

09 September 2005, 07:16 PM
Nice idea - very dramatic!

Good job on the moglin so far, though the head looks a little 'plain' for lack of a better word. Give him some more disctinctive features to set him apart from the 'cg head' look. It might be the rounded shape of the upper head thats doing this.
Im sure itll turn out great, judging from your previous works

09 September 2005, 07:38 PM
About Ur head model :
details`s working as good , But I think it need more excagration to be a sad face form . Speacify around his lips . Get opener it .Goodluck ...

09 September 2005, 08:12 PM
greeat too see u again mate. lol loved ur work last challenge, now ill put up a fight on this one and i expect the same mate from u , and...if that guy will be black...then we both will be having angry black guys on our pictures:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 08:50 PM
I love the perspective of this piece and the head is looking VERY cool. Particularly the neutral expression model. So for the angry expression, did you remodel the head to get the expression or did you rig the face somehow (I've never rigged a face before) and pose it that way. Sorry for being such a noob. I'm just trying to figure out how to make expressions... Keep going! Nice job so far.

09 September 2005, 07:24 PM
Tremo, I hate ZBrush! It's just so goddam unituitive and that gets on my tits. I see guys doing fantastic stuff with it but, try as I might, I just can't find the enthusaism to learn it. I need a Matrix stylee upload... "I know ZBrush!".

Until that happens i'll stick to old school bump mapping. :)

Overcontrast - Yeah that lip does look weird. I've tweaked it a bit as you'll see from my next update. Cheers man.

JDD - Have a look at the next update and let me know what you think and if things are still lacking. Bear in mind he's going to be fairly far from the camera so no need to get it too spot on. Cheers for your post.

melkao - Yep, that's the final expression. A combination of just becoming a Zombie, falling from a helicopter and not getting hugged enough as a child :)

Andy H, your the second guy to point this out, maybe he is a bit your average cg head chap. I've done some hair for him and a rotten zombie-like skin so hopefully that's enough to make him a bit more unique. And, as I pointed out to Jddog, he's going to be fairly far from the camera so probably not to worry. Cheers.

Ramtin_moom, there's a definate theme of 'give him more expression' from these posts which is cool and exactly the sort of stuff to I need to hear. I'll be looking into it, thanks for your input.

nebezial - This dudes going to be white but i'm planning more characters based on this head and will vary their ethnic backgrounds. I always like modeling characters with black skin as the shader seems to need less tweaking to get it looking realistic, possibly because of the way darker skin reflects light. Good luck with yours.

gardogg - Hey man, I don't rig faces personally just push and pull verts around until I get the expression i want. In this case i've added extra geomentry to make the face crease where I want it to but, if setting up morph targets for animation you can't do this as the targets need idetical vertice counts. So basically he's stuck like that but as it's just for a one off still it doesn't really matter. I modelled him in a neautral pose as i'm going to re-use the mesh for other characters in the scene who won't necessarily have their mouts open, brows furrowed, etc... Hope this helps, good luck with your work.

Cheers for the replys guys, textured zombie coming soon...

09 September 2005, 07:38 PM (

Here's the first zombie textured.

I've added the hair with a kind of an in-game technique as I can't be bothered with hair plug-ins - which is probably why I still have some hair of my own left :)

It's basically two textures made from photographs, one from the front, one from the side (you won't see the back so I have'nt bothered), mapped onto planes facing relevant directions which are bent a bit to give them some sort of 3d (you can tell whats going on if you look closely, a bit of tweaking will hide that). It works from pretty much every angle and doesn't take a month to render. I'll post the textures the mesh for anyone who's interested.

He's rendered with Brazil and I haven't bothered making him any bigger as this is about as large as he'll be seen even at print resolution.

I'm thinking of adding some blood coming from his mouth to suggest he's just finished having a munch on some poor sods leg. He'll probably be dressed in a suitably spoiled shirt and tie.

09 September 2005, 08:01 PM
dude...yuck lol:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 08:04 PM
Wowww ! :applause: you make of the very good job !! :buttrock:
Technically the texture produces well:) bravo! :D

09 September 2005, 08:16 PM
Good job. I hope to see more. :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 08:37 PM
yeaaahh! bring it up David! this character is cool!

09 September 2005, 10:07 PM
Awesome zombie! I love it - and this is one of those rare occasions when "the eyes look a bit dead to me" is really a good thing :D

EDIT: Just one small thing, I think the lips would look better if they were a bit thinner in the corners if you follow me... more stretched, thus thinner you know.


09 September 2005, 10:57 PM
Good skin texture, and amazing hair! Id love to see some wires of this unique process youre using. I think his skin is a bit pinky and his teeth are a bit clean at the moment though. His lips are a little 'fishy' too. Great eyes.
I had no idea that the people in the background were zombies! I probably didnt read your story hard enough...

Keep up the zomb-ness :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 11:18 PM
nice texturing ... particularly like the hair !
bravo david! seems like ur having fun ;)

09 September 2005, 01:27 AM
Seriously, WOW. That is one awesome zombie. Is that a photo of a real zombie? Scary! ;)

09 September 2005, 01:30 AM
Wow man thats a scary face......good modeling.:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 01:57 AM
Srtong Progress , goodluck ...

09 September 2005, 05:16 AM

hi David :).

Fantastic work.. as usually. Best luck to you my friend.

P.S.: I'm still thinking about participate to this challenge. I'm tjinking 'cause I haven't free time :(

again, GREAT work, buddy :)

09 September 2005, 06:04 AM
Yeah... now, it's a real zombie :thumbsup: more David :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

5* for hairs...

...teeth are too perfect, or then, it's the only zombie dentist which I know. :scream:

09 September 2005, 06:27 AM
I wouldn't want to bump onto to this fellow.... very very nice tecture and model work...

09 September 2005, 06:32 AM
yes, he looks really cool :)

09 September 2005, 10:00 AM
Hi all, thanks for some great posts.

JamesMK - Yeah I was looking at that myself thinking somethings not quite right about the lips. Thinner sides will be a good place to start.

Andy H - As for the white teeth I know it's a typical zombie trait to give them yellow teeth but as this guy's only been amongst the ranks of the undead for an hour or two so i'm not sure how yellow his teeth would have become by then. As for the pinkishness of the skin it's just another thing to make my particular brand of zombie a bit more unique. I agree wit hyou on the 'fishy' lips, i'll have a look at them soon. Cheers for your comments, i'll post the wire of the hair and the textures this evening.

Maxko - i'm not sure how much time i'll have myself to be honest (good some potential freelance work coming up. That's why i'm keen to get off to a flying start. I hope you can find the time to get stuck in too.

Lemog - Hey man, I think I'd beter mess his teeth up a bit. As I was saying to Andy they're nice bacause he's not been a zombie long enough for them to go yellow but I think people assosciate bad teeth with zombiedom so I reckon i'll 'Shane McGowan' them up a bit. Cheers dude.

09 September 2005, 10:36 AM
Thanks for explanation... that appear clear now (as teeth :scream: ) ... good job mate and seeya :beer:

09 September 2005, 11:12 AM
excellent job on the textures

09 September 2005, 02:45 AM
Ya for sure, incredible work thus far :)

And ya, post those texture shots.. I am very interested in them.

09 September 2005, 06:07 AM
Hey, David ! Nice job on the head ! cool texture !

09 September 2005, 10:28 AM
Neeno, gpepper - thanks guys.

Geta-Ve, i'll post some wireframes and textures when I get the chance this evening. I'll write a brief explanation which should make it pretty clear how i've done things althoguh it's all pretty straight forward.

Cheers all, rock on.

09 September 2005, 11:03 AM
This looks really good. Really "Evil Dead2"! Is it the head of the zombie who's hanging on? If it is, the only suggestion i would make is that the expression isn't "hungry" enough. The mouth should be stretched open much more, maybe the rotting gums are visible and tougue. He isn't there to make conversation, he's there to EAT, isn't he?!

Keep going it looks fantastic.

09 September 2005, 11:26 AM
WOW, your texture work is just AWESOME. And your really should give us a more in-depth explanation of the hair trick. I use hairfx, but I would like to know how to make hair look THAT good without a plugin.

My only critic is that there should be a tongue in the mouth, not just a black void. And yeah, the lips could use fixing. But other than that, amazing work. :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 05:50 PM
Yes also really like your concept and latest milestone, specially the texturing.

Thanks for the guidelines, I think I'll be trying to do hair using a similar approach.
I'm a big fan of zombies myself :thumbsup:

Enjoying yur thread and good luck to you.

09 September 2005, 05:54 PM
zombies are great... :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 05:28 AM
Man, I am really impressed with your modeling abilities. Modeling and texture both look awesome.
Waiting for more rocking updates:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 08:35 AM (

Ok, hopefully this'll shed some light on how i've gone about creating the hair.

The two textures (would be 3 if I had bothered to do the back) are taken from photographs. I normally cut them out rudimentally using colour range selection and then use the smudge brush to redfine the edges. This takes a while but is worth it.

I then planar map the front hair texture onto a plane with roughly 4 horizontal and vertical segments.

Next I tweak the verts into position so that the hair has some three dimensoinal shape to it - effectively styling the hair to fit the head. I do the same for the sides, bending the planes over the head.

I then copy the planes, mirror them and tweak them if necessary to add fullness to the hair. If you wanted to do a great job you could make bespoke maps to fit specific areas of the head with greater precision - but here I haven't bothered only using the two basic textures.

Although i haven't done so with the zombie it is often a good idea to map the hair textures onto the head so that any gaps in the hair planes are filled in, giving almost 360 degrees of good looking hair (the top is often a give away but a 4th map for that would probably sort it).

Rendering for this technique is virtaully instantaneous - although add some shadows and they increase quite a bit but are still way quicker than Shag:Hair and, in my own opinion, quicker to implement, easier to manage and possibly look better.

I hope this helps, any questions just shout.

09 September 2005, 09:03 AM
hei david! thats very helpfull .. gives me some ideas how i might go about putting hair on my spider :)!

09 September 2005, 09:08 AM
Hey nice technique for creating hair:thumbsup: But I guess it would be little difficult to animate them.
Anyways animation is not something meant for this challenge.
Thanx for this short tutorial stuff,I will try using this technique for one of my characters,not in this challenge as I have already modeled my characters hair.:)

09 September 2005, 09:28 AM
Yes, this hair trick is very good for still images, but I wouldn't want to try and animate it :). Thank you for explaining it to us. Now just to save this web page...

09 September 2005, 09:37 AM
cool texturing on the face buddy!

09 September 2005, 11:02 AM
yeah,David..thanx for that explaination,useful! ur the master of head modelling and texturing! no doubt!

09 September 2005, 11:39 AM
well :thumbsup: nothing to crit... very powerfull expression and amazinf face texture !

09 September 2005, 11:42 AM
Very nice model
and texture
good job

09 September 2005, 01:31 PM
hey man nice hair, and the textrure of the skin is very cool

09 September 2005, 03:16 PM
madshooter, xompanthy - Yeah animation is pretty much out with this sort of hair. I reckon you could do some subtle 'rustling' but that's just about it. For stills like this though it's my prefered technique every time.

Thanks for the other messages, I've got no time to work on this all week but hopfully i'll get some in over the weekend.

Cheers guys.

09 September 2005, 06:06 PM

Thanks a lot for the tut.
I'm leaving all my texturing for a later stage but
I know I'll come back to this thread.

That was really kind of you :D
Let's see the zombie invasion!

09 September 2005, 08:59 AM
Zombie invasion? Probably going to be more like a minor Zombie breach of the peace :) I don't think i'm going to be able to get too many of these guys built in time considering that this one has taken two weeks already and he's still only 50% there.

I've had bit of an extra thought on this. In my concept she was going to have leapt off the building, choosing suicide over becoming a zombie, and was caught at the last second. But maybe i'll change this so that the roof of the building has just collapsed and all the zombies are falling though into a buring inferno beneath. This way I get to increase the overal 'Spectacularity' of the image whilst getting away with less/smaller zombies.

Got to be plan...

09 September 2005, 09:12 AM
great textures :applause: .

09 September 2005, 10:00 AM
good idea, very good point of view and great texture :)....waiting for your next picture !

09 September 2005, 07:45 AM (

It's just a screen grab and a bit dis-jointed but it shows my progress on the modeling of the zombies body.

Don'task how he lost his shoe (and sock), because I have no idea. Although there will be a gaping woulnd on his ankle to suggest a fellow un-dead's been tucking in.

The shirt will be assymetrical, shredded and billowing in the wind as he falls and I'll cover him in the mandatory wounds, blood and sores.

I hope to have a finished, textured zombie by Monday.

09 September 2005, 11:23 AM
The clothes look very nice. Did you use a plugin? And didn't you say the guy was a zombie for a few hours (the teeth comment reply), so how come all his clothes are shredded already, and he has "wounds, blood and sores" all over him? Just a thought...

The model in general looks promising...:)

09 September 2005, 12:06 PM
Without surprise for me no, these clothes seem started very well for the moment... I'm just waiting tweaking now... and your fantastic texturing on it... :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 02:29 PM
hi David
nice update i can see how well ur progressing with this! what was he before a businessman? dosent really matter eh. he is a zombee! and still like the hair!:D

cheers man!

09 September 2005, 03:20 PM
xompanthy - nope, no plugin used, i'll post a mesh once i've finshed the modeling stage. Well spotted, I did say that he had been a zombie for only a short while so he was only going to show limited chracteristics of the un-dead. That plan is kind of out he window as people seem to expect to see a more sterio typical zombie (plus it's more fun to model him this way).

Lemog - Cheers man, it's coming on pretty well and i'm looking forward to texturing him.

yunisirees - Yep, he was a businessman before he got infected. I'm planning for him to have a tie pulled tight and other things to suggest what he was doing before his day went a bit wrong :)

Cheers guys

09 September 2005, 07:14 AM
Kool zombie. I love zombie movies, so I am enjoying this thread. Thanks for the little hair lesson, very slick. Cheers.

09 September 2005, 11:07 AM
Thanks for the hair tute Swamps, Zombi looks way cool, love the expression

09 September 2005, 11:32 AM
great work dude, although i would say the head looks alittle small for the body as it stands.

09 September 2005, 04:57 PM (

I've pretty much finished modeling the first zombie character. I've given him back his shoe as I realised that the main character will be missing a shoe (he'll be holding it) and it might get a bit confusing and weird if everyone's missing one shoe...

I've mapped him and am looking forward to a texture session tomorrow.

09 September 2005, 05:28 PM
This seems to be a good thread to follow and learning about great character modeling:thumbsup: . You are working very quick and I'm looking forward to see a textured version.


09 September 2005, 05:49 PM
man! I follow your work from machineflesh! and your charactor modeling and skin shading is very awesome! you ! charactor factory!:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 06:31 PM
Waow, great great great model ! Good job man ! Simply incredible !

09 September 2005, 06:41 PM
yup a missing shoe might be a prob!:) the businessZombee looks very business like! you should give him a rolex watch!:D

great skill as usual on ur part and cheers for the progress!

09 September 2005, 06:44 PM
Very nice work so far :). Hehe, you should make a zombie with his gut sliced open and his intestines hanging on the ground, or maybe even dragging behind him :D, gotta love zombies.

09 September 2005, 12:41 PM
very nice progress, lol for the shoe !

09 September 2005, 02:38 PM
Cool, as always.

Good luck

09 September 2005, 10:00 AM
eddieellis, yeah maybe now you mention it, i'll have a loo0k at that. Cheers man.

Da-Winky, textured version is coming along, i'll finish it off tonghit and post it tomorrow with a bit of luck. Thanks for your comments.

monsitj, I remember your stuff from Machineflesh too man. And congrats on your Master and Servant success.

themagictwins, cheers. Both of you :)

yunisirees, gettning rid of the missing shoe was a good idea, I was thinking about a Rolex or something. Cheers dude.

DogmaD, this zombie is pretty much in tact but yeah, it'd be cool to have some of them with guts hanging out and stuff. Cool idea, thanks man.

jddog, cheers dude.

suk-grigorij, hey man, good to hear from you and glad to have you on board for this one :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 10:02 AM
Very nice modifications on clothes david... nothing to crit :thumbsup:

...just give us more update :scream:

09 September 2005, 01:33 PM
Hey Lemog, I'll be putting the finishing touches to the texturing tonight and i'll post it up sometime tomorrow.

Hopefully i'll get him rigged and positioned as well.

Cheers man.

09 September 2005, 07:08 AM (

Well here he is posed.

Modelings done bar a few post posing tweaks (under the left arm for example). The texturing is about 50% there. I've still got to tidy up/improve a few bits, sort out all the seams, do better spec and bump maps and that sort of stuff.

At 1024x1280 as seen here, he's roughly the size he'll be in the print resolution image of 2657x3636.

09 September 2005, 08:22 AM
hey David the textures are coming up nicely! yup sure he means business!:D this will look superb when its done considering it's 50% even now!
cheers man!

09 September 2005, 11:03 AM
Cheers yunisirees, I'm hoping to only spend another night, two at the most on this guy before moving onto some of the more predominant elements of the scene. Next up will be a few buildings (which I really hate doing to be honest but are necessary) and then i'll get onto the more exciting job of modeling the female.

Thanks for your comments.

09 September 2005, 11:25 AM
Very very nice texturing and posing david... this character looks right aboout perfect...:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 02:40 PM
COOL!, Zombies!

This one is going to be an interesting final image.

One comment on the model itself... the skin seems too specular. Looks too wet which is ok if it would raining in the scene. Anyway, looking great the hair looks really good too.

09 September 2005, 02:48 PM
Yeah, the zombie does look pretty cool. But don't you think you should add some BLOOD on him ?

I mean i haven't seen a zombie yet with no BLOOD on him. (in the movies that is) :)

Cool modeling and texturing.

Steve Green
09 September 2005, 02:56 PM
'Hates modeling buildings'

Well I guess building most of Chicago would do that to a man...

(edit) I'd really go to town on f***ing up the zombie guy, maybe a shoe falling off, laces undone really ragged clothes. I think the main thing that sells a zombie is that they'll usually have sustained a fair bit of damage before they 'turned'

Guts trailing away might be nice (in a not nice kind of way) (edit)

Good Luck Dave



09 September 2005, 02:57 PM
Yeah... I adore the blood on his right head... very... hmmmmm :thumbsup: :scream:

09 September 2005, 03:04 PM
Hahahah, hi Steve. Yep that's why :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 03:10 PM
thats scary man , nice work so far keep it up !!! and good luck

09 September 2005, 03:20 PM
icedeyes, cheers man :thumbsup:

SNoWs, yeah I need to sort out a proper specualr map - rather than just bunging the diffuse everywhere like I have here :) This'll make the blood shiney and tone down the spec of the skin.

fgcity, he has got some blood on him but admitedly not much. I'll think i'll gore him up a bit this evening.

Steve, yeah a bit more blood and guts seems to be the order of the day. I did have him with only one shoe and a ragged trouser leg (look back a couple of posts) but I took it out. He's not the main focus of the scene so I can't waste too much time on him as there are loads of more important bits to do, however I've got to admit that some guts hanging out as he falls would be very cool. Cheers mate.

Lemog, I assume you mean right hand... I think that's working quite well - a more blood stained bandage will help it look better I think. Thanks man.

Divaise, Thanks man :)

09 September 2005, 03:45 PM
Very impressive texturing and shaping. Just one little crit. I think it would be good idea to moove his eyebrows a little up and make his eyes open wider. It could make your character more expressive.

09 September 2005, 11:54 PM
WOW :rolleyes: , that is so awesome. Really impressive .....Great job on the modelling and texturing

09 September 2005, 02:35 AM
This is coming along really nicely! The zombie looks cool, and I like his pose, too. There's something a bit weird about the arms, they look a bit action-figure to me, specifically in the shoulder area. Maybe the feeling comes from the right sleeve being cut too close to the edge of the shirt, feels like the area needs a bit more relaxing to look natural.

09 September 2005, 07:14 AM
suk-grigorij, that's interesting, I was thinking of moving them down to make him look more evil and angry. I don't think he should look tooo scared, as a zombie he'd probably still be trying to eat his next victim regardless of the fact that he's falling through the air away from her... Maybe opening the eyelids a bit would help enhance his stare and make him scarier. Hmmm, worth thiking about, cheers for mentioning it.

samer salameh, cheers mate :thumbsup:

dvelasco, action figurey like the arms pivot but none of the torso moves with it? Correct, although I like the right sleeve being cut short to suggest that, before becoming a zombie, he ripped off the sleeve to provide a bandage for the wound that unlimately turned him - it's all about continuity man :) I agree that the left arm is a bit odd at the shoulder. I skinned him pretty quick knowing that I could go in and tweak the model afterewards as it's only for a still. I've yet to do it and it should help make that joint look more natural. Thanks for the crit.

09 September 2005, 07:51 AM
Cool texturing dude:thumbsup: I like all that blood flowing down on his right hand and chest portion, only thing is if you show some cut or wound on his body, will make it look even more cool, just a suggstion dude:)

Keep up the good work:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 10:27 AM
he looked much better without textures on the initial stage. I think that shading postprocess in Photoshop will help him much, like it worked out for my gothy girls (links in signature)

09 September 2005, 12:36 PM
he looked much better without textures on the initial stage. I think that shading postprocess in Photoshop will help him much, like it worked out for my gothy girls (links in signature)

Hey victim 335, cheers for your post although i'm not sure I agree. You think he looked better before he was textured? I don't really see it and am pretty confident that the finished textures will only improve the model.

With the Gothy Girls, it looks like you're painting round them with black to add mood and contrast to your image and that's not the sort of effect i'm after here. In this case there will be a fair bit of action going on so the scene will be gerenaly lighter, possibly using an HDRimage to globaly illuminate it with a directional main light and a few subtle spots here and there to highlight details.

Thanks for taking the time to post your comments. :)

madshooter, a few people now have suggested making him more wounded and bloodier in general so I'm thinking about 'goring' him up quite a bit. Cheers man.

09 September 2005, 04:38 PM
Yeah it was just personal, I'm more in to photoshop then into hdri :)

09 September 2005, 06:19 PM
hey very nice progress; That model is very good,:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 08:01 AM
victim335, yeah, we all have our own tastes. Cheers man. :thumbsup:

melkao, cheers dude, I've made some tweaks to the model since my last post - the shirt's been made more wrinkly, been remapped and subsequently re-textured with less seams and is generally better plus i've been looking at his general specualrity and will no doubt chuck in some more blood and gore. I'll post an update tomorrow. Thanks man.

09 September 2005, 03:46 PM
Great job Swamps, only one thing that bugs me a bit is that for a zombi he seems to have perfect teeth. Looking forward to the update, i'm enjoying your progress.

09 September 2005, 07:34 AM (

I've improved on the shirt and tweaked a few textures, plus he's looking a bit more angry which I think helps.

I'll come back to this later but he's done for now as it's time to move on...

09 September 2005, 09:03 AM
shoulder of his raised hand looks messed up a bit - shoulder muscles would be tensed at such a pose. and the shoulder itself needs a lift - try reaching a ceiling and see, how you would behave yourself.

09 September 2005, 10:51 AM
Uiron, that is a bloody good point. Nice one for pointing it out :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 02:19 PM
Wow - that is some really good texture work! He's very handsome for a zombie ... makes him even more creepy. Looks like one of my old workmates.

Splendid work :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 04:37 PM
I still think you could try that thing with eyes opened wider. Because now the expression of the zombie's eye not fit the expression of the whole face.

09 September 2005, 05:37 PM
good work david.But the tye seems to have no thickness.

09 September 2005, 06:57 PM
Hey David ,

Your zombie looks like a zombie so you did a good job. :thumbsup: The elbow to his raised arm looks a little funny, it could fit a zombie arm though. Good luck with this.

09 September 2005, 08:25 PM
I think the shoulders looks a little too broad (this stands out to me when looking at his right arm). Outside of that, VERY AWESOME! Keep going!

09 September 2005, 08:34 PM (

I've made a start on the female character - forget the buildngs for now :)

09 September 2005, 11:11 PM
just checking on your progress. Urion made a really good observation but I think if you go by your blocking sketch and you lower the arm a bit more it could work fine. It would be like the zombie is falling and not reaching for the woman. Unless you decided to have the zombie hold the woman by the leg; in that case the extra time spent correcting the shoulder would well worth it.

09 September 2005, 11:23 PM
Hello there Swamps..

Very nice modeling, she looks cute... you definetly know how to model, so I am thinking you dont mind to much about loops for deformation, you might have some dificulties to model facial expresions on this chick, specialy around the mouth. You might still get it right at the end, but it would be easier with a loop around the lips... just my thoughts..

Good luck with it man !

09 September 2005, 03:01 AM
No crits on your modeling dude:) Female face looks cool:thumbsup:

waiting for your next step:)

09 September 2005, 06:39 AM
Your facial features are great, creat concept, good luck to ya and thanks for the advice

09 September 2005, 07:08 AM
Hi Swamps !

again nice cool modeling! :) ... keep on going man!


09 September 2005, 12:30 PM
Hi guys, thanks for the comments and crits.

Gunilla, i'll get you his phone number if you want? :)

suk-grigorij, you might be right but opening up his eyes will make him look suprised and I don't think that's an emotion betrayed by zombies. Maybe I need to change the mouth to better fit the eyes...?

CUBISIS, the tie is fully 3d it's just the angle that you can't see any depth to it. It could maybe do with a slight thickening towards the end though. Cheers man.

mmoir, yeah the whole left arm is giving me grief, it's just badly skinned at the end of the day :) I'll either snap shot the mesh and edit it by hand or i'll just reposition it and done with (or fix the skinning of course but sod that!) :scream:

gardogg, I think his shoulders are probably ok, it's his head thats too small. I've played around with him in the scene and this is more apparent through different camera lenses. Either way you're right and i'll fix it soon. Thanks man.

SNoWs, yeah that was a good point made. He was going to be holding her shoe in that hand to offer some continuation as to why he's falling. He probably still will be but there's no reason not to bring the arm down as you're right, he looks more like he's falling in the concept than he does in the last render. Cheers dude.

Nakary, I did think about that as I was modeling it and reckon this'll work facially for what i've got in mind. It's possibly not ideal but it was working at the time so I went with it.

madshooter, cheers dude shouldn't be too long before I have the rest of the body done...

yrd4snd, thanks man, any time :thumbsup:

yunisirees, thank you, how's the spider coming? Actually don't tell me, i'll go see for myself :)

09 September 2005, 04:39 PM
nice modeling of that head:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 07:22 AM (

I've made good progress with the material for the girl. This is rendered using Brazil with a key light, a backlight and GI. The material is Brazil Advanced Skin and uses bespoke colour, bump and specular maps. I haven't bothered with SSS just yet as it's a pain to get it right in Brazil. And also because it's over-rated and over-used (IMO). :)

I'm pleased with the results so far although there's bound to be plenty of tweaks as i'm not sure how happy I am with the mesh as yet...

09 September 2005, 07:24 AM
Damned David... what is this quality of texturing... I'm crying... so beautiful... I stop 3d today :scream:

Hahahaha... continue like that mate, you're so powerful :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 07:30 AM
fantastic work on the shader mate!, really nice. i love the eyes, they feel very believable.
Your on track for this !, good luck

09 September 2005, 08:00 AM
hei David .. u have a way with texturing ! :) this is very nice!
no crits just let u keep on doing the beautifull stuff here!
as for the spider...ok wont tell :D

09 September 2005, 08:20 AM
Good Concepts! Fantastic modeling! Amazing textures!!
Wow... I will close my mouth now...:drool:

09 September 2005, 08:33 AM
Yes ! great mapping Swamps, the model has something more than others, really beautiful mouth indeed.
What type of hair are you gonna add, long / short ?

09 September 2005, 08:39 AM (


:banghead: :banghead: ...Aiiiaaa...get out of this challenge man before u give someone a heart attack..hahaha. Amazing .

09 September 2005, 08:44 AM
that's just jaw dropping stuff u've got.. realistic !
her lower lip seems a little large imho, but that's just me... still excellent work.. can't w8 for more

09 September 2005, 11:11 AM
Great responses, cheers guys.

Lemog, haha, cheers man, you're too kind.

stripe, thanks man

yunisirees, I saw a thumbnail spider methinks... off to check it out now. Cheers for your post.

DJ_Fleury, cheers dude.

Grorum, she'll be lucky to get the zombies hair stuck on her head and a quick change of hue! :) Only joking (ish), ideally I want her hair to be long and bilowing although I haven't really decided what technique to use for it yet... Thanks for your comments.

Dimi, Hahaha! :thumbsup:

Versiden, thanks man. That bottom lip is quite big, the interesting thing is that if you look at the last post of the untextured model it's not really one of my best - the texures are saving it quite a bit so there'll probably be some tweaks. Thanks man.

09 September 2005, 12:26 PM
Great work, the head looks so real:thumbsup:
Keep it up.:bounce:

09 September 2005, 12:40 PM
Lemog, haha, cheers man, you're too kind.
No David, I'm just jealous of your skills :scream: :thumbsup: hahahaha

09 September 2005, 12:54 PM
i have been trying to model this freakkin head for awhile now and i am not a fan of 3d modeling whats the deal

09 September 2005, 01:09 PM
This stuff looks absolutly awesome, I love the way the material looks on the girl, good job, keep it going, can´t wait to see her finished

09 September 2005, 02:38 PM
unbilivable:thumbsup: :bounce:

09 September 2005, 03:05 PM
Mr Micro26, cheers dude

Lemog, :thumbsup:

czrvc83, bung me a link to your head and i'll gladly take a look...

jmturbo, thanks man, hopefully an update won't be too far away. Reckon i'll do some hair next rather than jump stright into modelng the body, lose interest and never finsish her... Me? No! :), thanks for your post, glad you like her.

09 September 2005, 03:15 PM
Wow! Thats looking ace! Her head looks a little bit tall, and she has chubby ears, but that should be fixed once she gets some hair. Are you gonna use the same 'fake hair' method as you did with the zomb?
Youre gettting good at quick head modeling!

Keep it up :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 04:33 PM
David Marsh is entered in the "Spectacular Challenge" update: View Challenge Page (

Latest Update: Texturing: Female Head (

Well, man, what can I say. I can only say, that now really understand that my english is sux, cause i don't have enought words to express all emotions I feal. Well the closest words for my condition now is "I'm jealous".

I'ts just a kind of skin shader I'm trying to make for a last two or free months. How did you do that, David?

09 September 2005, 05:57 PM
Wow she's one preety girl!
Nice work.

Got to move my modelling now, because I really want to start texturing :p

09 September 2005, 05:11 AM
Hi david, ur render looks preety good. I am also using brazil for rendering but my specular map,bump map,reflection map is not working with brazil advance materials.It only works with brazil basic materials.Can u help me out in this matter.Also when I assign brazil renderer to material editor slot in the assignrenderer slot the materials show not supported message.

09 September 2005, 06:48 AM
outstanding as ever Swamps :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 07:33 AM
Morning all!

Andy H, her ears are a bit chubby indeed. This is becasue I stuck a push modifier onto the mesh as it helps to enclose the eyelids around the eyeballs and make her look more attractive. Ideally I should've selected the individual areas that needed it rather than applying it to the whole. The hair will be done in a similar plug-in avoiding fashion although I think that as I want something really long and flowing it'll have to be path-deformed planes rather than the zombie approach. Cheers man. :thumbsup:

suk-grigorij, hiya. I would definately recommend experimenting with Brazil as it offers some advanced texture options - one of which is handily called skin! You still need to go through the usual 'tweakathon' before you get something that resembles what you want but the basics are in place for better results than you get using standard max materials.

However a large part of her looking good is more to do with lighting than texturing. If I turned off the global illumination this head would look like a bad 3DStudio release4 render :) I'm using Brazils global illumination to light her with 2 secondary light bounces (it takes about 5mins to render the head like that). I don't know what renderer you use but a mate of mine swears that VRAy can do anything Brazil can and more so i've been meaning to try it...

I hope this helps. I'll post some of the textures soon and am happy to answer any more questions you might have. Cheers dude.

Spin99, go go go! For me modeling is fun but texturing is where the model come to life so that's always the really exciting bit. My UV unwrapping is always a total mess becasue, once i've finshed a model, I simply cannot wait to get some textures on it. Good luck.

CUBISIS, hiya. The unsupported texture thing happened to me a couple of days ago for no apparent reason and even a restart wouldn't bring it back, in the end I had to open a file that was already successfully using Brazil, delete all the old stuff and merge in my new models. Dumb! A mate of mine had the same problem, i'll ask him how he got round it.

As for your specular, bump and reflection maps not working that is very interesting. My spec and bump work fine and always have but, about a year ago, I spent days and days trying to figure out why I couldn't have a reflection map on a Brazil advanced material before giving up in a huff. I reckon it must just be a bit glitchy and it might be worth having a look for an updated/patched version. Sorry I can't be more help than that...

Eddieellis, thanks man :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 07:36 AM
The zombi rocks, and this new figure is very pretty. :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 08:34 AM
Hi. what a sapid face. i realy like it. and nice sss. good luck man :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 08:44 AM
ali_rahimi_3d, cheers dude, glad you like her.

The SSS was easy to set up - there is none! I just painted the ears a bit redder than the rest of the face :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 09:45 AM
the skin texture and shader look wonderfull... wish i could texture like that... great work overall and quite a trick for faking sss...

09 September 2005, 10:50 AM (

The meshsmoothx1 wireframe...

09 September 2005, 10:55 AM (

I've done a bit of photoshopage on the image, played with the levels, used a soft light layer to add a bit of contrast, that sort of stuff. A subtle improvement...

09 September 2005, 11:12 AM
Wow. such a beautiful fae texture. She looks really beautiful. Way to go!

09 September 2005, 03:09 PM
Cheers Yongkiat, if all goes to plan i'll have some hair on her by tomorrow - but then when do these things ever go to plan? :thumbsup: Thanks man.

09 September 2005, 03:11 PM
awesome face! great texturing :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 04:31 PM
Hey, fanx for such attention to my humble person. I'm very greatfull. Fanx, mate.

09 September 2005, 04:45 PM
Good work dude. I liked everything, good work so far :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 04:55 PM
Awesome texturing job Swamps !!!

Great great great , nothing to add :thumbsup: :bounce:

09 September 2005, 05:17 PM
Hey , Dave, nice texturing/modelling as always:deal: :bounce:

09 September 2005, 07:39 PM
Very sweet modeling, great work:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 09:03 PM
Great work, I love her lips... and... everything else! :)

Good luck.

09 September 2005, 10:50 PM
Very nice details you have submited. Good Work:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 05:01 AM
Nice texturing dude:thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 05:25 AM
Man you are flying! She looks fantastic. Nice job so far. SLOW DOWN. Let us poor slackers catch up with you! ;) Just kidding.

09 September 2005, 07:23 AM
the really looks spactacular. perfekt. :scream: now show us some hair stuff... ;)

09 September 2005, 09:18 AM
Big thanks to collings, denverbz, Zapan, sergioKomic, ar LutiK, lilCara, melkao and madshooter for the words of support.

suk-grigorij, hey no worries, it's fun to share techniques and stuff. Best way to learn, cheers dude.

gardogg, well I have slowed down a bit this week as I'm helping my mum out at her B&B whilst the old man is away. Means my evenings are pretty much tied up. Back to normal next week :)

mac_andre, trying my hardest to get on with the hair but have been really busy this week (see above). Definately planning to get it nailed over the weekend - expect it to be big and wavey :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 09:49 AM
wow man , youre doing an amazing work, ...:bounce::bounce:

09 September 2005, 02:12 PM
Cheers Rattlesnake :thumbsup:

I've had a few thoughts about ammending my concept a bit. I think I'm going to move away from the falling thing and show the girl as a heroine figure walking casually away from a huge (and of course spectacular) explosion which has taken out a load of zombies. Might knock up a new concept sketch if I get the chance...

What do people think about that idea?

09 September 2005, 06:02 PM
Man, your modeling is great, but the texturing is amazing!! It rocks!!! :buttrock: :thumbsup: I´m happy if i can do the half quality you do on your maps! :D :bounce: Congrats!

09 September 2005, 06:07 PM
yes, that's Swamp's style - I recognize it from last challenge - supreme texturing :thumbsup:

about new idea...looks fine bu not sure that I understand it well..sketch wanted :)

09 September 2005, 07:39 PM
Hey Swamps, i reealy love this face , can you give us some explication about the shader ? Also maybe if you don't mind, show us the differents map that you used ....
Awesome face :buttrock:

i'd like to know what software do you use ?

09 September 2005, 08:07 AM (

Here's the model of the hair. It's basically opacity mapped, path deformed planes. Render coming...

09 September 2005, 08:11 AM
WOW! Thats effing awesome!

I love poly hair, and this is a superb example of how it should be done! Great style and flow.
Only time will tell how the render will look, but im betting it will look keeewwwwl!
Did you push and pull the verts to get it to look like that, or use some kind of twist and distort modifier? Or paths maybe?

Nice job - this will look ace with the 'casually walking away from a huge, zombie-destroying explosion' idea.

09 September 2005, 08:16 AM (

Here's the rendered hair. I wanted something really big and flowing and very definately not my usual cop out! :)

I think this has worked pretty well but there are some tweaks to be done. For example it gets a bit scraggy in the middle where there's too much of a muddle of polys, also there's the odd area where the twisting of the planes gives a very unnatural look. These areas need to be relaxed out once i'm happy with the general shape of the hair.

I've also changed the colour of her eyes to better match the hair.

09 September 2005, 08:22 AM
Very nice! I think you could avoid some of your problems by either tweaking the lighting or adding a slight transparency falloff based on the hair objects incidence. Or, you could give her dark hair - thats the easy way out :D

Its been bugging me for a while, but she looks a tiny tiny bit cross eyed. Wether its because of the camera angle, the default 'stare' expression or the fact that her face is so tall. Its a minor thing.

09 September 2005, 09:17 AM
hi there... the hair is coming out great ..except the crits outlined :).... me dont know much about hair!:sad:
but all along great work man!

09 September 2005, 09:23 AM
Good start man... just for the moment we see too much shapes of hairs... that misses of natural... but your way is very good anyway, maybe with more transpacy, especially towards the end of hairs, and more differents length of hairs...

...I know you... you certainly don't have problems to kix that... courage for you work David, you're one of the best guy here :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 09:36 AM
SnoK, thanks dude, good luck with it.

(o)ne, cheers man, I was just looking back at some of my stuff fot that last challenge. Hopefully this effort is going to rectify a few of those things I did wrong, not least of all the hair... what was I thinking? :)

I'll sketch out my new concept soon. As a mate of mine pointed out, it'll kinda be like that scene in Desperado where Selma and Antonio are walking away from a huge explosion behind them in sow motion, seemingly not the least bit bothered - cool as f... :thumbsup:

collings. I've given a brief descriptions of shader techniques as i've gone along but, to save you trawling here it is in a nutshell:

First up i'm using Brazil to render in 3d Max. Brazil gives you some advanced shader options, one of which is specifically tailored to skin. You still need to do a lot of tweaking but the basics are there to give you a better result than you can achieve with a standard Max material. It also does SSS although i've not go round to setting that up yet so there is none in this head.

She has 3 different textures in the colour, bump, and specular channels (called oiliness and wetness in the adanced material). I reckon that a good shader is only about 30% of a nice looking face. 20% is modeling, the rest is down to lighting. I've got Global Illumination with 2 bounces going on here, a key light and a backlight. The final thing will probably be lit with HDRI for added realism - i'm really looking forward to experimenting with that.

I'll post the textures themselves as soon as poss (i'm at work at the moment and don't have them available), there's nothing that special going on. I think the key thing to appreciate is that the diffuse needs to be strictly nothing but flat colour, use your spec map to add/remove shine for particular areas.

Cheers man, good luck with your work.

Andy H, hello mate. The hair's done using path deformations. I set up about 20 different splines, mapped a poly and deformed instances of it to them. Pretty straight forward really. As for the cross-eyed thing you are so right and it's pissing me off. The eyes themsleves are facing straight ahead but I think it's possibly some slightly dodgy eye lid modeling that has left them of centre. Grrrrrr :)

I'll stick with the blonde hair I think as dark is a bit of a cop out, and cheers for the idea about using fall-off, hadn't thought of that yet. A few more hours of tweaks and it should be there. Thanks for your posts.

yunisirees, thanks dude, should iron out those probs over the weekend. Nice one.

Lemog, yeah I think that diffrent lengths of hairs is a must. At the moment it's just using the one transparancy map which is making it quite uniform, plus I need a few tweaks to hide some of the more obvious shapes. Trouble is that rendering gets so bloody slow - it's already taking about 20mins which for tweaking is a nightmare.

Thanks for the compliment, especially good coming from you :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 11:23 AM
thanks a lot for this explanation Swamps :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 11:27 AM
Except what Andy_H and Lemog are saying...i think what would help the hair to be more believable is to avoid the twisting so much...other than that...i totally and massively ..hate ya..:scream:


09 September 2005, 11:29 AM
Good ! Hair' texture is beautifull, but plus what was said about hair, I want to add my opinion about the lack of 'life' in the current version.

A picture should be better to explain what I mean :

Some match should be more in spiral, adding some chaos in the global hair attitude.
The hair establishment should be lower too, with a more circular base.

09 September 2005, 12:37 PM
Wonderful hair texture... :wip: and the face looks perfect, wow... who ispire yuu for this face ?

09 September 2005, 12:41 PM
find some refs about hair in the wind => Ref01 ( - Ref02 ( - Ref03 (
Hope this can help you ;)

09 September 2005, 01:42 PM
Cheers guys, lots of useful tips there.

Dimitris, I agree, I think i'll probably probably relax it quite a bit more too. Thanks mate.

Grorum, I think i'll go and look at the opacity map. At the moment it's very linear with very little 'chaos'. By messing that up a bit it might help the hair feel more alive. Cheers for the sketch, it helps.

Jddog, thanks man. There;s no-one famous who inspired me for this face. I used reference from ( - a girl called Simona, but it doesnt' really look like her at all. I played about with it in PS and she looks quite a lot better slightly squashed (vertically) with a bit of a smaller jaw so i'll try that out on the mesh when I get a chance.

Collings, cheers for the pics dude, really appreciated. I found a couple of them whilst searching for refs but then stumbled across a wicked windy hair picture in an advert for 'UKs Next Top Model'. At least that rubbish serves some useful purpose in my life :) Infact you inspired me to go back and look at it and I realised that I'm quite far off the mark at moment with the hair. Hopefully you should see a good imporvement in the next post...

09 September 2005, 04:18 PM
Hi David. Nice work both the hair and the modelling how i said. Congrats :thumbsup:

09 September 2005, 06:05 PM
Actually she got a really stylised look.
I'm thinking Boticelli's Birth of Venus or is it Adobe's Illustrator?
Any case very interesting that.

Actually looking quite nice, you could have given her blonde brows
to match. Or are they?
Something about hairy matched blonde women :p

09 September 2005, 08:52 PM
hey,coool head,that is fabuluos! but the hair still needs work!:thumbsup: keepit up,maan...

09 September 2005, 09:28 PM
• Hi David! :applause: the girl is looking great, i need to do something similar for my image and now i am looking at your thread i see that the hair method u r using is cool for fast and good results, i hope u don't mind if i use ur images for reference :thumbsup: good work in here as allways!

10 October 2005, 12:07 PM
denverbz, cheers man. The hairs getting a total overhall and should be posted tomorrow.

Spin99, yeah the eyebrows possibly aren't the perfect match for the hair but than plenty of women dye their hair and leave their eyebrows. I've made her even blonder in the updated version so think i'll have the change them a bit. I know what you mean about the illustrator bird and the birth of venus is a great suggestion for reference, i'll check that out now. Cheers dude.

Madlight_1988, should have totally new hair by tomorrow. You're right this one's got a sound technique but just isn't working. Hopfully i'll sort it this time round.

Climax, crack on man, feel free to use any of my stuff that helps you out. Thanks man.

10 October 2005, 07:09 AM (

Righty-ho. I've done some new hair and although it's still due a few tweaks it's definately heading in the right direction.

I've also tweaked the head a bit - she's got a smaller nose and chin, stronger jaw and a generally shorter face. This I think gives her more of a heroine look to suit my ammended concept.

And hopefully, as I never quite seem to be able to tell, no more cross-eyes... :) Andy?

10 October 2005, 07:14 AM
Its looking much better now - especially her face!

The hair fades of a little too softly though - it almost looks fluffy. Try to emulate the look of hair strands splitting and waving about. Maybe place another layer behind the hair with a different texture?

Keep up the great work

10 October 2005, 07:17 AM
the new hair is looking better now. :applause: but i think this is the wrong color. to me, she seems not to be the blond type... :shrug: ;)

10 October 2005, 07:57 AM
Looks really more natural !
I would hide her left ear behind some match, if I were you.
And oh, there's a hole in the upper left corner of her head, don't forget to place hair there too.
Great work. :hmm:

10 October 2005, 08:05 AM
the hair need more density.see if u can achieve that.

10 October 2005, 08:20 AM
Better man... always too much opacity for my taste... and maybe too blond... anyway, aspect depend also a lot of the environment... for the moment... your background is certainly too much neutral to find the final setup for her hairs, not ?

10 October 2005, 08:30 AM
hei man! ...yess the hair is getting better and better ... hmm i think now it misses the beautifull hair high lights!but then again im used to seeing black hair hehehe! .. what do u say man?

10 October 2005, 11:48 AM
Hi all. I've just had a look at the movie for the hair plugin that comes with Max8... (

This hair will do for now but, provided I can get an upgrade before the end of the competition I think i'll be re-doing it - that things looks pretty bloody good.

Thanks for the C&C.

Andy H, cheers dude, it is a bit fluffy bt I think it'll do for now, particularly if i'm going to change my approach. A second layer behind is a good idea and something i've experimented with. Cheers man.

mac_andre, I tried a few different colours but this one seemed to sit the best, I quite like the idea of giving her outrageously coloured hair - like pink or something...

Grorum, it is a bit thin around there - i'm trying to use it sparingly as it takes so sodding long to render. I'll fill that bit out though. Thanks man.

CUBISIS, Agreed, i'll have look at that.

Lemog, good point about the background, I tried it on black and it looks totaly differnent. I'm planning to have a big explosion behind her so maybe i should get that in before I take the hair any further. Cheers dude.

yunisirees, hiya. As I mentioned above i'm hopefully going to give it a go with the Max8 hair plugin - based on Save and A Haircut. Hopefully this'll give me more freedom to experiment with colour and specular. Thanks mate.

10 October 2005, 12:01 PM
Hi Swamps, nice work. I liked the girl. Good work both modelling and the textures, especially the eye and the mouth. Nice work so far. congrats :thumbsup:

10 October 2005, 03:15 PM
Hey man,,, the hair is very real and natural. But i think tha the neck is too long:blush:

10 October 2005, 03:28 PM
Hi all. I've just had a look at the movie for the hair plugin that comes with Max8... (

This plug is also available with the 7.5...
This is the "shave and haircut" technology...
Works very well !

10 October 2005, 11:22 PM
man this is looking very amazing..:bowdown::bowdown:

10 October 2005, 07:01 AM
AMAZING WORK - ONE OF MY FAV !! excelent stuff.

10 October 2005, 11:19 AM
Awesome dude, nice hair:thumbsup:

10 October 2005, 01:56 PM
denverbz, cheers mate.

melkao, thanks dude. Neck might be a bit big on that one as I made teh whole head shorter but didn't account for the neck. Cheers.

gpepper, I want :)

rattlesnake, thanks man :thumbsup:

hindus, thank you.

madshooter, cheers dude.

10 October 2005, 02:04 PM (

I've moved on from the hair now despite it being finished - blowing stuff up is loads more fun than being a hairdresser!

Here's a couple of viewport screen grabs...

10 October 2005, 02:10 PM (

...and here's the render.

I experimented first with Max's Fire effect (for about 3.4 seconds) and then with some freebie Max plugins - Fire and DustDevil. The second of which was ok but not really giving the the result I had in mind.

This is created with four basic particle systems, each timed differently with a different colour relating to a different phase of the explosion.

I think i'm on the right track with it. I want to add quite a lot more detail - secondary explosions, zombies getting fried that sort of thing :)

10 October 2005, 03:11 PM
something awesome - if the rest part of work will be on this same level you really grab the price :)

10 October 2005, 04:04 PM
OK man i understand what you mean about the neck......By the way....tha explosion is great, in what software you made it?(max,maya....):thumbsup:

10 October 2005, 04:36 PM
its look like max - btw waiting for you know what ;)

10 October 2005, 07:12 PM
Great explosion, no crtic fo far. keep going :thumbsup:

10 October 2005, 04:19 AM
Hey Swamps ;) Face is looking great! I'm still a fan of poly hair for stills I have to say. I used shag for a while.. but in the end I think you have a lot more control over polys, well at least for stills. Was Thinking there seems to be a fair bit of repetition in the hair texture.. mostly noticable from the dark streak.. maybe some texture variation might help?... you prob dont wanna think about hair for a while thought right? :P hehe, anyway i talk too much.. good luck!!

10 October 2005, 05:46 AM
your explosion appear too much grany than smoky... but that's a very good starting point... you will certainly find some good setup nearly, I'm sure... and I'm waiting impatiently to see the result... :thumbsup:

10 October 2005, 07:32 AM
melkao, it's Max. Had no luck with fire/explosion plugins so resorted to particle systems. It means I have almost total control although it is a bit of a tweakathon to get it to this stage - and still loads to go yet.

denverbz, thanks man

alfy, Yeah man, I am totally haired out. Agreed on the repetition, I'm gonna give it a go with the Shave and a Haircut feature in max 7.5/8 asap.

Lemog, cheers mate, hopefully it'll progress quite a bit in the next few days, stay tuned :)

Hindus, Hey man. Here it comes... :thumbsup:

10 October 2005, 07:40 AM (


Plenty of people have been asking me questions about the skin shader for the girl so far. I've tried my best to describe my tequniques but pictures speak louder than words, or tell a better story, or something :)

So here we go...

The first step is, as ever, the pain of UV unwrapping. Here's the unwrapped mesh after I've given the head basic cylindrical co-ordinates, relaxed it and tweaked out any overlaps whilst avoiding too much stretching.

10 October 2005, 07:44 AM (

Phase 2 is to do a quick light bake using the Skylight and Render to Texture functions in Max.

Ultimately these shadows will be re-added in when you come to do your render but this technique gives you a nice starting point for painting your diffuse texture.

10 October 2005, 07:50 AM (

Phase 3 is the exciting one - getting the colour onto you model for the first time is always a milestone reached.

I tend to use a combination of photographs and hand painting over the light bake to add a bit of definition (keep it subtle).

The important thing to remember when using photogrphs is to remove ALL the specular from the original image - we're not making PS1 Characters now people :)

10 October 2005, 07:55 AM
Nothing to crit... a great course... very nice and clean map... that seem very simple with you, but very effective... that works so good on your model... I want the same for my angel :scream: hahaha...

good job David :thumbsup:

10 October 2005, 07:55 AM (

Bump mapping is less important on characters, particularly young females, as it is easily over-done. However it is still a worthy addition to any shader.

I take my colour map, desaturate it and play with the levels to pick out subtle deatils.

In this case i've kept the eyebrows and lashes bright to give them some extra relief - it helps to keep your layered PSD to hand for this.

10 October 2005, 07:59 AM (

Finally it's the specular map. This is similar in many ways to the bump map except for the areas where you need more/less shine - the lips for example...

10 October 2005, 08:05 AM (

So, once you made you've got your three basic ingredients it's time to boil the couldron and stir your magic potion together. :)

I'm using the Brazil Advanced Skin shader as it seems to give the best results for my approach. However, these techniques are fundamental to all materials.

I've included details of my settings, any channel not mentioned is not used.

10 October 2005, 08:15 AM (

So all that's left is to hit render then?

Sadly not.

All I have covered here is creating the shader - a vital but ultimately small cog in the creation a realistic human.

You'll see what I mean if you create this material yourself and render it with default lighting and the scanline renderer - rubbish! :)

To really get things looking good you need to sort out your lighting. In a nutshell, I'm using Brazil to render, with GI (2bounces) a key light (high and slightly to the right) and a back light (low and from behind).

Well, thats it. I hope this helps at least one person get a better understanding of how i'm doing things.

Happy texturing and best of luck,

10 October 2005, 08:19 AM

Very nice tutorial swampy. Too bad i aint got brazil!

10 October 2005, 08:59 AM
I was waiting for this :) - more than excelent stuff - Im g2 dll brazil :] thnx once again.

10 October 2005, 09:21 AM
Thank you very much excellent explanation Swamps !
The result is really good :)

10 October 2005, 09:23 AM
hi swamps .. the explosion is coming out nicely with the tools u used! me was a max user before hehe!
and the tut about the skins shader is great could take out some tips !

10 October 2005, 11:52 AM
Andy H, Cheers dude. I'm planning to have abit of a play with VRay sometime soon as i'll be very interested to see (as a mate of mine reckons) whether or not it is as good/better for characters than Brazil. We'll see....

hindus, :thumbsup:

collings, my pleasure and thanks very much.

yunisirees, and soon you will be a Max user again Mwuhhuhuhuhu (assuming you use Maya now that is)! :)

The explosion will get loads more work. I want it to be a bit more flamey and organic if you know what I mean. Dunno if this approach will really allow for that though. Glad you like a the skin tut.

10 October 2005, 12:39 PM
one asks simple... which is the size of the texture? 1024? 2048?

10 October 2005, 01:16 PM
particle system? very nice control:eek:....the particles are my weaknesess, Do you know where i can find some good tutorials about particles?:twisted:

10 October 2005, 02:27 PM
MadnesS, hey dude. The original textures are 1024s - gives me just enough texture resolution for the hi-res image without killing my machine with them all open :)

melkao, not too sure about particle tutorials altough i'm sure if you just search you'll find plenty. I've picked up my limited knowledge just through playing about... Cheers man :thumbsup:

10 October 2005, 02:57 PM
Only 1024 ? I thinking you used larger one ... respect man... very very good result then... :thumbsup:

10 October 2005, 03:03 PM
Cool, but I think that it would be nice idea to put some aditional specularity to her eyes.

10 October 2005, 03:14 PM
Good explanation. Do you'll use sss? I Think a good idea, no? Good work :thumbsup: