View Full Version : How do they do this?

08 August 2005, 10:35 AM
If you check out ( and see the pictures from "Wave of death" and "Check-in To Disaster"

Are they using 3ds max and Thinking Particles or Particle Flow? How complex can this kind of setup be? I mean, as far as I can think, you must use both some kind of dynamic simulation within the particle system itself to make something like this...

Anyone, maybe Allan Mckay or some other man/woman with a good knowledge can answer me how I can do something simular.


08 August 2005, 06:44 AM
Wave of death and the plane were made with a really really really customized open version of thinking particles 1, I'd almost not call it TP at all since it is pretty much all new code from scanline in Germany who wrote a lot of new operators and tools to do it all.

You can do all of that with pflow or tp2 just with more grunt work than anything but it's all doable.

08 August 2005, 09:57 PM
Thanks for the reply Allan! Well, this is what I heard from another person who use tp2. You can't do this effect in pflow, over and out... MAYBE you can do something simular when pflow box 2 comes, but not until then he said... pflow as it is today doesn't handle fragmentations so, just because of that it doesn't work.
Scanline uses only one tp system in both of the effects shots and if/when pflow can handle fragmentation you will have to use several pflow systems to get near this.

I know that you are a master of pflow and knows what you are talking about. How do you respond to this?

I have both pflow and tp2 and have a pretty good knowledge of pflow (I have your 5 DVD set) but I can't do so much in tp2, it's a hard system to work with but yes, it's powerfull, I do think that but it would be great to do something simular effect in pflow if that works.
Don't know what to use for the water and so but...

Well, tell me what you think!


09 September 2005, 12:13 PM
Honestly, I'll say this: nobody uses TP2... and i can GARENTEE the person who told you you can't do it in pflow is rifaat daugher, who A) doesn't even know how to use pflow (I hired him for a pflow project once and we pretty much had to do it all ourselves) and B) argues the point that tp2 can do things aura and other completely non particle related applications can do, purely because they're not 'cebas' products, therefore gods gift to every answer.

I use TP/pflow, maya and houdini and every single one of these packages can do it, some easier than others. TP2 and pflow boxset 2 and houdini are the only ones with built in rigid body dynamics for particles, although again even maya can do this stuff with a bit of fudging around.

I'd release some TP2 tuts but every time I think about doing it I get warned against it since there's only really one studio in the whole world who uses it which is digital dimension... even scanline.DE don't really use it anymore.

In regards to water, the wave of death stuff is pretty easy, just motion blurred cubes even can do the trick. I'll be releasing some tuts on water stuff soon for pflow as I've done a lot of R&D on this subject for a movie recently. I'm also doing some really kickass water effects in maya right now too using hardware rendering which look fantastic and render very quickly.

09 September 2005, 05:33 AM
Hi allan,

well i think this is not right place to ask.but i can see u use maya and houndini also for ur sfx and vfx.

well as i want to be a fx animator.and i knew only one 3d package 3ds my question is " to be a good vfx animator should i learn other 3d package also? if yes and what package u will recommanded to me? i know 3ds max can;t do some fluid stuff wihtout plugins.but if u suggest me to learn other 3d package for vfx then what will it be?( hmmmm maya,xsi ,houndini etc.)


09 September 2005, 10:39 AM
There's so much to learn - I think it's worth while just learning one package, but get to know another package a 'little bit'. Honestly I don't think you learn much in any package at all on your own, so it's best to learn the fundementals and then wait until you're put in production to see how quickly you pick things up when you're given a task a deadline and people around you to help answer your q's.

Learn maya. Soft sucks for fx, houdini is far superior over maya in a lot of ways, but it's a lot more difficult to really get a hang of (well to an extent really) but the main thing is not many places use it, so you really will be closing yourself out of a lot of options then. Maya and max are the two big boys these days funilly enough. So get into both of them.

I'm doing a lot of maya work for a music video right now and cringing over little things like some tentacles were built with poly's so I can't script particles easily to flow over their surfaces etc. and other simple things that make a world of pain... I'd kill to have lock/bond frorm pflow tools at my disposal.

09 September 2005, 07:03 AM
i think i will go for maya for secondary software. but i can;t forget max and it;s best particle tool pflow.(which is very handy to make particles to dance.:D )

BTW u said : " u can;t learn much in any package by ur own".

well u tell me how did u learn those things?
i have no choice to learn this software by myself(using books,dvds and ofcourse these valuable forums and from ppls like u.)

09 September 2005, 02:53 AM
best particle tool pflow.

YEEE...hehehe :D:D:D this is good way to judge without knowing other tools :D
Pflow is really good tool but not best :P

09 September 2005, 02:16 AM
By that comment I just meant learning the fundementals of visual effects is important, but once you learn it in one package, jumping over to any other package is very easy. But if you just dabble at it in your spare time (lets say you've been using 3ds since the beginning and you start playing with maya) you really won't ever get anywhere in maya - you will learn here's the hypershade and the graph editor and this and that, but really the way to learn is to be thrown in the deep end, get given a project with a deadline you have to do in the package, then in like a day you'll be doing shit like a pro.

So I didn't mean learning off other people, but more if you go to a studio and get thrown into it's production environment you'll learn 100 times faster than dabbling at home with it.

in regards to learning, yeah same there weren't any schools and I didn't have net access when I first got into 3d, so I had a inside 3ds 3 for dos book and my 14 floppies of 3ds :P

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