View Full Version : Gogo Girl
07 July 2005, 03:12 PM
Started modelling her last night, I'm pretty happy with it so far. Tris at the mo are just under 3500. Still got her mace to do before the UVing starts. C&C always welcome. Updates soon. :D
S. J. Tubbrit
07 July 2005, 03:20 PM
Nice start so far!
Certainly looks like who it's meant to look like! :thumbsup:
Don't understand the thinking behind the topology in the middle of the arm, elbow is fine, but why the extra faces at the front there ?
should be cool textured.
Proportions look odd on the torso area. Looks elongated. Besides that I look forward to seeing this :)
If the torso is reduced you will have to reduce all limbs and arms to make it work but it is elongated.
Did a more detailed thing. Please do not take it the wrong way you were very close to the figure.
The pics from left to right. Your Ref, Your model, a Googled medical female form, and the fixed one.
The Red lines sort of indicate the main parts and for the most part you were ok. The few that were a bit off were torso and legs (on legs it is hard to tell what part you want as the knee so that is debatable) Since you have clothing on her it is hard to tell were the main figures of the torso area. So I did a blue marks that later copy and pasted to your model and the blue marks on some them extend outwards from the model it self. This already indicates it is too slim. ( of course this is a Caucasian basic body type so it is different like in butt areas etc.) The clothing are not skin tight so it would be thicker in those areas.
What I changed on the final one. Widened here upper body Made the arm shorter but a tad thicker also. Hands are slightly bigger. Made the legs wider and moved the skirt up wards. Also because of the changes the arms needed to be shortened. The arms that are on the normal area are yours and the other have been copy pasted and matched up with the circle Also the v neck has been elongated downwards (this is not on the ref I just exaggerated it a little, makes the figure still look full but still tall)
07 July 2005, 03:25 PM
Cheers S.J. Erm I just thought It would help the silhouette, and add a bit more form to the arm. If it makes no difference I can always collapse the edges and use texture.
Proportions are still being tweaked Desp, I might widen the torso slightly to compensate, she lined up to the 2nd ref, plus cos shes wearing a jacket it might look a little long.
a few pics for those not in the know:
07 July 2005, 05:04 PM
Cheers Desp, theres no way I could possibly take it the wrong way after that effort!! :thumbsup:
I agree it looks a little long thats why I said I was still tweaking the proportions. It was a little difficult getting the proportions right with just one view so I'm hunting around 3dsk for a suitable model. If all else fails I'll just fatten her up!! :D
Thanks again dude.
I missed something on the arms the crease on my fixed version is in the wrong area that would be lower look at the med one.
One other thing which might be tough at the end is making sure she has the pointy shoulders that gives her a lot more width visually.
Np :) Last time I missed some stuff on your model so I want you to do a great job all around on this one. I Know you do cool stuff :)
07 July 2005, 06:44 PM
Cheers mate, yeah I'd taken the shoulders into consideration too. I've tweaked the proportions now and I think I've got it looking right.And now... unto the mace.
07 July 2005, 06:53 PM
Cool choice and clean topologie.
Maybe her face is a bit off. For sure her chin is too round and looking at the references, I think it would make sense to start the mouth loop from the side of her nose, maybe even over it.
07 July 2005, 03:25 PM
Yeah I agree Florian, cheers. :) I used a differet ref for her face. Looks a little rounder than in the film dont you think? I have however tweaked the loops, done the mace and started Uving. Texture updates soon.
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1880/gogowire25wn.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gogowire25wn.jpg)http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/3282/gogofrnt6jk.th.jpg (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gogofrnt6jk.jpg)
07 July 2005, 04:14 PM
yea not bad..the only thing that bug me..is that nose..it is looking just a litle bit to big...gogo as a special nose...but it is not so big..the rest is good working!!...already wanted to see it textured
07 July 2005, 04:22 PM
You gotta be kidding me, her nose is massive!! :)
07 July 2005, 04:22 PM
okey this part seam a litle bit to large on your model...make her almost ugly...but gogo is not ugly she is just looking more like a freak..(ba my opinion..lol)
ho well just triing to help!!^^ keep working!! its already looking like her anyway
Yeah the nose is pretty think. I think in the nose bridge it needs to be pushed in a bit. Actually where super indicated. See how the nose shape smoothes out even more at the top to the eyes and face area. Also the nose seems too bulbous for a lady. I forget what it is called but the nostrils parts need to smooth out a bit more to the peak of the nose. Right now the nose looks a bit masculine. Here nose is big but it needs a few tweaks. I think the size is good just need to smooth it out in some areas.
Edit: The chin needs to be a bit flatter also. Right now it is too pointy.
Edit2: I keep going at the ref an noticing some small things... sorry for these many edits...
Well I saw that eyes could be a tad smaller but that is not the problem I see right now the eyes do not have the feel of asian. You do have them slanted a bit but it needs to have much more the shape. Trace the shape of the eye lid and you will see.
07 July 2005, 04:56 PM
Not a prob, Desp, Super. I had to make a judgement call between the two chins (like shes fat!!) cos I have a few refs for her and none of em line up. I have a happy medium which I'll post up later... about the bridge of the nose, the smoothed version is a truer representaion of what she looks like and a front wireframe can be a little decieving. Its not as high as it looks. As for the eyes, wait for the texture and mascarra, I lined those eyes up good and proper. :D
P.S next time I'm making a "generic soldier character" !!
07 July 2005, 05:33 PM
Yep, hope you fixed the chin as it's about as wide as her mouth in that front photoshot.
I just noticed the odd tri's at her back, just under the hair - seems odd how the edgeflow is broken so abruptly. Saving polys?
And I agree with Florian about the mouth loop starting at the top of the nostrils - at the moment it looks like she has a permanent pout. Also would you be able to add that dip at the top of the lips, just before the corner of the mouth (the lips are full at the centre, then dips a bit, then smoothes to the corners - sorry, dunno the anatomical name for it)? Your model has a smooth arc from middle to corners of the mouth, which isn't like the ref. :-/
This is going to be a steallar piece once the hair texture takes shape. :Thumbs:
07 July 2005, 06:11 PM
I was kinda dissapointed seeing this after reading the title (i was expecting a parodius-style go-go dancer!) but, yay! Chiaki kuriyama rules!
Nice choice of model - if you wouldnt have done it, i woulda :D
I think it looks good so far - smoothing your polys would help the look of it and i cant really crit on the face until its been smooth shaded or textured. It looks ok at the moment - i cant tell for sure, but i think the bridge of her nose and her mouth looks a little strange, and the gap between her eyes and mouth is a bit large. If it matches the reference overlay, then so be it!
Maybe pump a few more polies into her shoulders and knees to help deformation too.
Keep up the work - she should end up lookin ace!
07 July 2005, 05:58 PM
Sorry to Dissapoint, Andy I know how much you like your scantily clad women! :D Thanks for the observations, peeps. Been away from the real world for a week thanks to flu, however I started on the textures and I've knocked out a few initial renders. I'll post more when I've made more progress.
07 July 2005, 06:07 PM
Lookin gooood - shes lookin a lot better now she has a face texture. She looks a teeny bit masculine, but heck - shes got a large nose anyway :D
First off the clothing is well done and everything else looks spot on. The face has troubles though...
Things that jump at me fast are the cheek areas and they feel too smoothed back closer the chin. The mouth is huge compared to the real thing. The nose is also way too bulbous still. I was hoping I was wrong because I did not see the side view to the nose.
The nose can be fixed with a clever skin but the mouth and cheek areas need to be tended too.
What my instincts tell me the mouth can be scaled down all together to make it smaller. The cheeks need to be smoothed so it smoothes out the side of nose. The nose maybe with those changes will look alright but if not the nose it self feels a tad to long. Be careful of too much shadow on the nose area that can also be creating a bad effect.
Faces are the toughest parts to do imo so I know how it is.
07 July 2005, 09:22 PM
The clothing is really looking good, so nice job on that.
I have to agree with Desp#2/Rog on the face crit though. The mouth does need scaling down some and the nose could do with tweaking.
Where the nose joins the base of the forehead you can see in this pic (http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9419/chiaki0343zg.jpg) that it goes almost straight down from the forehead, where on the model you've curved it in slightly just under the forehead, so you could probably do with reducing that curve. You have the nose bridge running down to the tip convex enough, but once it hits the nose tip, the line from the tip running down to the nose crease needs to be a seperate curve rather than a continuation of the bridge line, and it also needs to be more concave. Also, at the sides of the nose you need to make it blend slightly more with the face. To some degree you can just do this with the shading on the texture.
It's kind of tough for me to explain all of this, so I knocked up a quick image.
Hope that makes things a little clearer. Also, the hair could do with some transparency so that the strands aren't so blocky, but i'd imagine that was something you'll be doing at some point anyway.
Dispite all this crit it's fairly minor stuff, so overall the model is certainly on it's way. :)
07 July 2005, 09:53 PM
Andy: Cheers man. Found some new pics of her and you'd be surprised how big her nose is!! Only just started the texture so still a ways to go. :)
Desp: Cheers. Again just started so still some things to do.
Headless: Thanks, man. However do take into consideration the lighting conditions of the pic you used to compare my render AND the fact that in the pic her head is tilted slightly.
Anyways here are a few images with different lighting conditions.
Back to painting... :D
Still if the model does not look like her it will be almost impossible to do a good likness even with the most awesome skin. The nose shape in the pic posted looks the same as the ones posted by headless. Your nose still extends outwards a lot compared to your pics. Take the crits how you wish but right now she looks manish and has some odd proportions issues when this model is meant to be realistic. The rest is fine it just the face that is killing me to be honest. I kills me because I know you can model awesome and also skin really well but the lack of likeness is really killing it for me.
07 July 2005, 10:58 PM
I think the best way to be sure is to rent films with Chiaki Kuriyama in them (Kill Bill (obviously), and Battle Royale spring to mind), then scan through them until you get good front and profile shots, take screen caps and match them up in Photoshop, then stick that on a plane and match it up in the viewport.
07 July 2005, 11:12 PM
I only use front and side views of persons for rough setup. After that i take all images with diffrent angles and model with them (rotating the object and working in perspective), for me it works better this way... its a bit like these Silouhette-Scanners :)
07 July 2005, 11:17 PM
The trouble with that is matching perspective shots up. With front and side it's pretty obvious how things line up and you can set your model to see-through and match it that way. To do the same with a perspective shot wouldn't really work, although I agree that you should also use perspective shots as a guide, it's just better to match to perspective shots by eye rather than actually matching them in the viewport.
I guess whatever works for you though.
07 July 2005, 02:31 PM
OK thanks for the crits. gripes, etc. I dont wanna go into detail right now however I have been doing some tweaking as I always do. More updates soon.:D P.S The hair texture is temp.
07 July 2005, 07:17 AM
Sweet work so far kaisasose...you've definitely nailed the likeness, it's just more of a case to nail down the proportions, 1 crit I have is that the eye sockets are a tad too wide and her pupils look again...slightly to large, fix this and I'm sure it'll make a vast improvement, keep on it:) .
07 July 2005, 11:42 AM
I agree with johnwoo crits
This is not bad at the moment, but the nose could be a bit more rounded/wide at the bridge also make the eye iris smaller, hair darker, make the eye slanted but a bit more oval shaped and smaller, also ahh did I forget something? yes the way the hair lobs over the shoulders looks very strange and unnatural make less flats of hair.
anyway this is good work, just keep working on it :thumbsup:
07 July 2005, 12:04 PM
It looks great but indeed the nose is too wide. She looks Samoan in heritage rather than Japanese. It just needs a little refinement thats all.
07 July 2005, 12:59 PM
TwitchyHamster, many Japanese have a wide nose? look at the photo ref of the girl.... also google it, you'll see wide nose is a common Japanese (Far East Asian) trait.
07 July 2005, 05:08 PM
Her nose does not look as wide as he has it modeled to me. ;)
No reason to jump down my throat about it.
07 July 2005, 06:46 PM
Guys, please don't fight... its 3d not life, and everyone means well! :)
Right, to business.
John Woo: Spot on mate:thumbsup:
I took one of my refs, was a bit skewed so I rotated, it to vertical and mirrored it. I got it in Maya and lined it up as best I could, Did the same with the side too. So I'm pretty sure the nose is as big as it should be now, made the pupils slightly smaller along with the eyes, according to the refs. I think I might desaturate that school badge too, its a tad bright.
This is where I'm at now, all thats left is to finish up the rest, alpha the hair add the specs and Bobs your mums brother!!
Phew! That'll learn me for doing someone famous. Updates will come in a few days. :D
07 July 2005, 09:48 PM
That is more like it!
08 August 2005, 12:35 AM
looks better but nose still feels tall I think it has to do with most of the face feeling a bit tall compared to the ref.
The lips are still big. Jaw line feels sharper now... What I mean is jaw line from the ref is smoother. Eye sockets are too deep the brow should be smoother. It is an improvment from the older one though.
Sorry have not been around in this area that much I am doing some 2D stuff atm.
08 August 2005, 02:36 PM
I'm not an expert, but maybe it is the face, not the entire head, that is out or proportion.
Even if in a real person this can be untrue, eyes should be alligned with the middle line of the head, especially with hairs on it.
Try to scale down an move down the facial block a litte, except eyes (for eyes, no scaling, only move). Also, she needs eyelashes.
It's the only thing, cause apart from this model and textures are very good.
08 August 2005, 09:02 AM
Hey kaisasose...it's looking better since you shrunk the eyes, and since you've done that it looks even more like her, may I suggest moving her eyes down a bit as the distance between her eyes and mouth makes her face look longer than what it actually is...imho this is the only thing that is throwing it out slightly...btw..textures are working nicely...and apply alpha to her hair!!:)
08 August 2005, 03:19 PM
Ok a lots of the crits i've had have been about the positioning of the eyes length of the nose. So I've decided to upload this :
as u can see the ref and the model line up. I will be adding spec to her face and finalising the textures soon. For now though:
look at her hair... its got alpha!!:D
08 August 2005, 07:34 PM
You're right about the face, it matches perfectly.... but i think i've found the problem.
Face matches, but hairs and cranium don't.
See what i mean:
From the image that you have shown, it seems that your mesh doesn't match the two "canonical" lines, this is why the face looks big, even if it matches the reference.
The solution is to fix the proportion of the face according with the cranium one, or vice-versa to fix the cranium size to match the face (but i think this last one would make the head too big for the body).
Please don't take my crits bad, if i make this is because i see a lot of potential here.
Textures and model are really awsome.
If you fix the face this is a perfect piece of game art.
08 August 2005, 07:58 PM
Nah I never take crits badly dude, thanks. If I can decipher all you've said, she needs a bigger head whilst keeping the proportions. I'll look into making her hair more boufant. Maybe that'll help. cheers.:thumbsup:
08 August 2005, 08:12 PM
Yes, that's it.
Sorry for my undecifrable english :D .
08 August 2005, 07:45 AM
Heeeeey! This is looking really great, although I still have nagging feeling that the face is a tad too dark. The hands and legs seem about right, so would you mind lightening the face to match just to see how that would affect her?
I'm noticing the skirt really stands out - maybe it's just me, but it looks more real than the rest of the textures (which look very handpainted). Perhaps it's the desaturation in the skirt that's making it stand out more.
08 August 2005, 04:29 PM
you've done an excellent job on the texture for her jacket...
would you mind posting the color map?
08 August 2005, 08:45 PM
Ok people, thanks for your crits. They were all taken in good spirits, I'm doing my best and hopefully improving with every post! :)
I've tweaked, rigged and posed this little Vixen... and just for you dpdizzle, here are some flats too reduced size though.:D
08 August 2005, 09:49 PM
There's still something a little off about the face, but i'm not sure what. Maybe it's just cause she looks a little vacant. Also you need to fix the seam in her hair so that you can't see the scalp.
Besides that though I think it looks great. I especially like the texture work. :)
08 August 2005, 09:58 PM
I dunno what you mean by fixing the seam but I always assumed you COULD see the scalp if you had a centre parting. Cheers anyway dude.
08 August 2005, 10:04 PM
I think only if the hair is pulled tight. Either way it's never really shown on game characters cause I think the seams just tend to seem too prominent.
08 August 2005, 11:58 PM
Yep some games have 'em and some games don't . I suppose its a matter of preference. Anyhoo I've decided to go with a trace of a scalp. :D
08 August 2005, 10:44 AM
Have to agree with Headless about the top of the head - though the close-up renders don't appear to have this problem.
Pose is good, but I think it's the eyes, you've got that pure white of the eyes thing happening again (with some shading coming from the render I suspect) which is giving her that "vacant" look. Darken up the outer parts of the whites and I'm sure they'll fit better :) Do you have blendshapes for the eyes? I'm wondering if dropping the eyelids down a bit will reduce the "stare" which might be creating "vacant" look.
Aside from those crits, she looks finished to me. So wrap her up, and send her to someone who needs a good kickin' ;)
PS. I notice you're still not making full use of that T-Page. Man... Sooort it out! :P
08 August 2005, 06:32 PM
Ok dokee, first off the T-Page I posted for dpdizzle to look at isnt the one I used, its just a compilation to save on size. (He still hasnt thanked me... the cheek!!) :)
Anyhoo I've gone back to the model, moved the eyes a bit. I think if she seems to look at something she doesn't have that "vacant" look. I decided to darken the middle of her hair completely, must be a game thing, cos in real life u can see scalp. :shrug:
Gonna call it finished, might post it in the finished 3d section, so guys, what do you say... yay or nay? :thumbsup:
08 August 2005, 07:04 PM
Yep, looks like you nailed it! :thumbsup: Especially like the bottom left one: pure evil!
So, what's next? You've got a pirate, a ganster, some nutso japanese chick...
Post her up in the Finished section, she deserves to be shown to the world :D
08 August 2005, 07:18 PM
Really cool. The eyes are a bit strange, but the rest is perfect.
Before you post her in the final section, make sure the chain dont cross the hand.
08 August 2005, 12:14 AM
WHW: Well now its time to make a few envs to go with these characters so maybe I can get back in the game with some variety!! :)
Florian: Thanks man...I'll take a bit strange over very strange! Slight oversight on the chain but I've sorted it out now and I've updated the above pic. :thumbsup:
08 August 2005, 12:44 AM
...I'll take a bit strange over very strange!
Thats great work. If someone said very strange, it must have been your intend :D
I cant even say, whats up with her eyes. Maybe the dark eyesockets, maybe that typical realtime problem of having a hard line between the lashes and the eye :shrug:
It always gets difficult if you can compare the model with a real person.
08 August 2005, 12:52 AM
Her nose is HUGE!! Soo many people told you about this and you still haven't changed it. Why?
08 August 2005, 01:04 AM
Believe me, florian, I found out just how hard modelling real people can be with this project :)
First time I modelled a chick too so I'm pretty chuffed with the result. Hopefully next one will be even better.:thumbsup:
spirogyro: I think if you check the previous page post #37, you'll find that I did. Thanks for your wonderful and uplifting crit though. :curious:
08 August 2005, 01:14 AM
Well I could put the old crits here again but you did change some stuff so I know you were trying at least. Yeah nose is big but oh well. At the very least she looks mean as hell and somebody I do not want to meet. Your faces tend to be a slight issue mostly in your models. I suggest instead of modeling a whole figure to just practice on some faces female and male to see how proportions differ from both. Faces are very hard and since it the thing people will look at quickly and know it is not right this will limit you a lot if you do not get the proportions spot on. Your textures are good and your process is also to that level. Just got to work on the smaller things. But also do not dwell on projects you learn more doing misstakes and trying to fix them in the future models.
08 August 2005, 01:23 AM
I'm not trying to be mean, but your asking for crits and it doesn't seem like your listening. Maybe this will help you a bit more. I'm not the best photoshoper, but I still took the time to do this, so I can help.
Notice how the bridge of her nose, doesn't go up that high anymore, and that her nose is smaller and thinner. I think your problem was the shadows in your reference, it made it kinda hard to read. Anyway, also something seems wierd about her lips. You may want to work on that. I think her bottom lip is fuller and become narrower towards the edge. Hope this helps.
08 August 2005, 01:41 AM
Spirogyro: OK THAT... is laughable. First of all , I listen. I listened when SJ and desp mentioned proportions. I changed them. I listened when Headless and desp mentioned the nose I went back tweaked it vert for vert. And I listened when TIzeta mentioned the cranium. I changed that AND tweaked the nose AGAIN to make sure I got the proportions just right. And they all made a vast improvent on the model. She has got a big nose I modelled a big nose, not just any nose but the nose on the reference pics. I can take crits like anyone. If I couldn't, the final model would look like it did on the first page.
However, if you're gonna pour water on my flame for a laugh, just take the easy option... when you see kaisasose by a WIP, just don't post.
Desp: I appreciate your input but you make it sound like I just settled for that final image. Believe me I didnt. Its a shame you don't like it, art is oftentimes subjective. Nuff said on the matter I think.
08 August 2005, 11:18 AM
I've got to agree with kaisasoze, that photoshopped image looks nothing like Chiaki Kuriyama.
08 August 2005, 04:01 PM
hey that's looking really good
she really does have a big nose, i remember thinking that when i saw killbill.
oh, and thanks for posting the flats :twisted:
08 August 2005, 05:36 PM
That's really good! i get the impression the top of the nose (where it meets the forehead) is a bit too long, like her nose is a bump that starts from the forehead when in reality it should be pulled inwards under the eyebrows. Better definition of the nostrils would also help. Still a pretty cool piece!
08 August 2005, 06:34 PM
Cheers guys, yeah all the possible flaws with the nose have been brought up now... when I finish my next project I might do a 2nd version if someone else doesn't beat me to it! :)
08 August 2005, 07:02 PM
Just a quick final update on her nose as I'm desperate to move onto something else!!
08 August 2005, 09:47 PM
Before i start speaking let me jus say i love this, its great.
I personally think that the face texture is a little bit blurry (which is odd considering the great work u did on your pitate) n lets down the rest of the fantastic work, the bow bugs me it seems a little out of place.. as if it was drawn on afterwards or something. I love the skirt (although it looks odd to have the pattern cut of as it is) and the shins are really great. That Bottom left shot is so... her.. sorta creepy n degenerate :twisted:
08 August 2005, 01:20 PM
Cheers man, yeah I tried to squeeze everything into 2 512s, should have used a whole T page for the face like I did the Pirate.
08 August 2005, 01:20 PM
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