View Full Version : Master and Servant 3D Entry: Alejandro Garrido

03 March 2005, 02:14 AM
Alejandro Garrido has entered the Master and Servant 3D.

Challenge Page (

Latest Update: Modeling: Fur Tests. (

Well. Dunno which category fur fall under. Guess its a bit of mod and texturing. Truth be told, I know I won't have my original idea, but damn I will try my best to get the portrayal across. One for the furry ones :)

It still needs tweking. Very quick tweaking. Damn quick.

03 March 2005, 02:19 AM (

This is just a quick sketch that I did as soon as I entered the challenge. No big details, just trying to achieve the feel of it.

Double Post!! Bad me!!

03 March 2005, 01:41 PM
Ale! Ale! Ale!

I will be watching this one progress mate. Good luck

btw...I think u may have double posted...big woopsie :)

Edit: I like the concept too

03 March 2005, 12:01 AM
Hey dude!

Yes, this will be a good experience. Put myself on the front of things and do challenges, best way to get the best out of people.

I will post some more images of the progress later on. But for now, a little bit of history for my characters:

The character name is Sancho Panza. Sancho is the sidekick of the infamous Don Quixote, a romantic hero from Miguel de Cervantes Saarveda, a Spanish writer. Some movies have been made of him, namely, Man of La Mancha ( and the failed attempt turned documentary by Terry Gilliam Lost in La Mancha (

Why not use Don Quixote himself? I dunno, suppose that Don Quixote being skinny and long-limbed would have been the easy way of creating a character and that being of the master. But then Sancho Panza is more appealing with his wide girth and his funny relation with his donkey. I haven't read Don Quixote and maybe I will be shooting myself in the foot by the way I have imagined the relationship between Sancho and his donkey. But well, this is what we do, we create parallel worlds and use reality or fiction as our ground.

The idea first idea was the sketch I made. It shows how Sancho is lazy in his way of dealing with his donkey. While him being the Master, it is not by much that his character retains that power. The relationship that is portrayed in the sketch is not strong enough, but I'll come up with better angles and such as I continue creating the model.

More updates as they happen.


03 March 2005, 01:10 AM (

This is one of the first 3D renders of my challenge. At the moment I am concetrating on the mule and not so much on Sancho. As I started I decided to do a quick test with Reactor Rope for the carrot at the end of the fishing rod. It was just for fun, and it probably didn't help that much, but it gave me a better idea as to how to continue with the challenge.

03 March 2005, 01:23 AM (

This is a late entry as I did this a while back. I have been doing a lot more as you will see in the next few entries.

This one I concentrated on getting the flow of the hind legs. I got a lot of crits from Lukᚠ(kudos dude, will miss you!)
This was one of the nice flows that I achieved(not much of a modeller, hence why I entered the challenge)
Will keep trying to avoid triangles!!

03 March 2005, 02:01 AM (

This is what I am up to with the mule/donkey. So far I have done the basic shape of him and this is what came out.

As you can see there is still a lot fo work to go before I can even feel satisfied about it at all. However, it is a descent point from which to go full steam ahead.

03 March 2005, 02:05 AM (

The head is something I am so far quite happy with. It does have the equine look to it and has the feel of a plain animal but has a little bit of intelligence on him.

I spent quite some time with the ears which are still not there yet... I can't emphasize how much tweaking equine ears take! :)

04 April 2005, 03:10 AM
Hey there man... as promised .. found your thread and posting up.. Dude this is quiet a cool concept you have here. You have the foundation of your concept and will be using that to accomplish your scene. The horse looks very cleanly modeled man.. Ears look great.. (i wish my horse ears were as good as this.. you can already start to see a tiny bit of expression in the horses face already..Its coming along quiet nicely.. This scene has a warm felling to it which is good for the challenge since mostly every body has an evil idea!! I can oinly think of maybe about 2 or 3 pieces in the challenge like this.. i say go with it .. use your sketch as a foundation to your concept then in 3d just add all the expression and meaning to the scene that you can possible go for.. but overall your model is quiet clean and great keep it up man... ill be watching for sure!!

04 April 2005, 03:11 AM
and dude... put your Thread link in your signature so whenever you post around people get to go directly to your thread =) just a thought.. Update soon dude... would love to see more

04 April 2005, 03:38 AM
Hey Neeno,

Thanks for the promised reply. I appreciate the crits. I still have a bit of a way to go with the donkey/horse/mule whateveritis. Mostyl I want it to be able to have an expression which I think is going to be the killer for this particular project.

I actually should have pointed out to you a book that I use called "The Complete Horse Care Manual" by Colin Vogel. It has heaps of great reference photos and it can also help out when it comes to some details for your own horses. If you need to have a look at it let me know and we can meet up.

Anyway, I came up with a couple of ideas as to how to change the concept a little bit. I still have to post the sketches for Sancho and some background imagery. Thanks for the reply, keep up your own work, looks tops! :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 11:57 AM (

This is an idea I had been playing with for a bit. Obviously not in the sense of artwork ;).
I think that this image will portray better the relationship between Man and Beast. In the previous one, Sancho, the Man, was the Master, by not a lot. I always wanted to twist the theme a little bit and I though, why not make the Beast the Master?

As the rough shows, Sancho has a path he wants to follow but his ride decides to take different path. By making the Beast become the Master I thought that I'd make a little appeal for a lot of us who have something on our backs guiding us through many paths in our life but we all come to the point of taking our own decisions and following our own path.

Note that I still included things such as the saddle and the headcollar. This is something I have debated with myself for a bit as I didn't know wheter or not it would aid the picture and the relationship's portrayal.

Any comments appreciated.

04 April 2005, 01:19 PM
dude.. i think its much better.. I think leave the head coller just dont make sancho holding it to show that he is the servant if you get me?
show that he has no control over the beast of burden.. rather that sancho become the beast and the donkey has become the burden simply because he wont listen to sancho. i think it is alot better idea and more detailed idea then the original. id go with this one.. and have something really funny on the signs maybe depicting humour./ Good luck man

04 April 2005, 07:04 PM
... yeah this is a very nice idea the idea of the mule who disobey and the carrot ... think that can be a funny situation ... good start of modelisation ... good luck :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 07:38 AM
Hey Neeno - Thanks for the thumbs up for this new idea. I had been thinking about it for a while and hopefully this will be more solid and more expressive.

Freed76 - Yes, it has been quite obvious that not a lot of people liked my original idea as much as I though. Hopefully this will fit better. And once again, good luck with your own change of ideas.

04 April 2005, 07:49 AM
Topology... *hint* *hint* THE TOPOLOGY! :scream:

Btw: Have subscribed to this one as well... soo... don't keep me waiting! ;)

04 April 2005, 01:07 AM
Topology... *hint* *hint* THE TOPOLOGY! :scream:

Yes, yes my friend, I actually spent all of monday night doing not 1, but 3 very baaaad heads. Trust me, not worth to show here. Funny that you posted the links at the CGC board as I actually spend all day Tuesday browsing them.

Hopefully by the end of today I will have something to show. :eek:

Oh, and incidentally, when are YOU going to join?

04 April 2005, 06:21 AM (

This is a step I'm happy with. I have been looking at other people's work and I admit being not good at the TOPOLOGY (thanks duber). Which is why I took a lot of effort to details things out.

Thus far it is not bad. Still need more details but I have to go and sweat it out at karate so 'till next time,


04 April 2005, 07:47 AM
... that's going on :thumbsup: ... just a little detail ... i look again at you horse and there are some tris (faces with 3 vertex) while it's often better to put only quads (faces with 4 vertex) with mosts softwares ... which software do you use ?
... i think it could be interesting to post not only a version of your objects with visible edges but also a smooth version without edges as it would be more obvious to say you what to change ;) Courage :thumbsup: You'll have now to do parts i hate more to do in a face : mouth and ears ;)

04 April 2005, 08:39 AM
But be carefull with anatomy!

My servant:

04 April 2005, 08:49 AM
hey man head model coming along nicely.. just something about the nose i dont like man.. but other then that its looking good dude.. yeah i agree a fair few tri's in your horse i noticed before but that can all be fixed befor you texture.. good luck still watching man.. heads looking really good

04 April 2005, 09:46 AM
Oh, and incidentally, when are YOU going to join?


And, if you don't mind, a few crits from me:

The 3/4 view:

- The forehead polygons are too spaced-out! Move the loop up as shown with the arrows.

- The eyes don't look like this at all! Yours are just extruded N-Gons inwards, which is a good start, but very far from finish. And since you've capped the insides of the eyes, I assume you thought you were close to finishing them. But, in fact, you're far from it! The eyes should go from eyebrows below, then there should be some sort of a crease (not sharp!) and then it's kinda displaced outwards from the face, not kept flat like this!

- The loop coming from his forehead down to his nose is incorrect! Re do the loop as I marked on the picture. It should be, in fact, coming from the forehead to the bridge of the nose. This is becasue of our muscles underneath, when we grin, this loop goes up towards the eyes.

- The mouth is incorrect. The loops don't follow our muscule structure and also the lower finish (the two lines that change direction and travel above chin to connect in the middle) is not supposed to be there, since you'll need every vertex to form such a dramatic change as the lower lip, the "valley" between the lip and the chin and then the chin on it's own. I marked red how the loop should go.

- The last bit on this one is the loop that goes from the back of our nose around the corners of our mouth. You don't have that topology there! Again, it's important to have this correct loop there so that you can make the character smile or do any facial expression. But even without those expressions, we have this sorta displaced skin wrinkle there. ALL OF US DO! ;)

The side view:

- Green is marked a correct volume the head should have. And also the proper position of the jaw!

- Red is the loop that in your case dramatically changes direction. It shouldn't be that dramatic, but very nicely and smoothly fluent!

Hope this helps, keep it up bro... :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 12:57 AM
Hey guys!

Fred76 Thanks for the encouragement! It really is good to see that people like the way its coming around. The horse/mule/donkey is still way from finished. I decided to take a break from it and try to do the head for the time being. It is only a small break. Still got a long way to go. And I use 3DS Max 6 at the moment, love it!! And yes, still got to get onto the mouth and ears. Don't know which one I'm more scared of.

Gáll Attila Yes! It really has come to the point where I can't help look at people and see them in wireframe mode. Love 3D!!! Thanks for the pointers :thumbsup:

Neeno Hey dude! The nose was an earl play. I'm still deciding whether to go for the ugly Spanish big nose or the small-no-bridge nose. I think the latter. At the moment the best thing I can do is buy a mirror.

loocas Great one :bowdown: Glad too see you made it to the Czech Rep. Hey man, thanks for the pointers. You know I don't mind. I mean how many times have I come up with something I was really proud of and you shread it to pieces and make me go away feeling like a bad 5 yr old boy? No sarcasm intended and that was meant to be a good thing. Still got a LOT to learn. I will definetly take all your pointers into consideration and get more done. Thanks a lot man.

Well, today is a day of recovery (got myself cut in the forehead and kicked a friend in the elbow, ouch!), so no updates for the day. I will hopefully post the updated head by friday. Till then,


04 April 2005, 02:40 AM (

This is a quick update. I didn't get a chance to work on the face over the weekend but the little time I had a quickly put it to fixin up tris and such. There are still a few things to go before I get there. My goal now is to get the face chubby, big cheeks but a nice appeal to it.

Take it away boys...

04 April 2005, 08:41 PM
The mouth is quite disproportional my friend. It's to narrow... just widen it up a little bit, imagine lines coming down from inner sides of both the corneas, now where they cross-section the lip line there should be the mouth corners. :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 01:27 PM (

This are the hands that I came up with for Sancho. Not too detailed yes. The reason behind it is due to the fact that you won't see a CU of them and hence no need to make them more detailed. I'd like to note that this hands were modelled really closely to my own but taken back to when I was about 5 yrs. old. I wanted chubby hands. I think they look chubby. Now on to the feet...

04 April 2005, 01:42 PM (

This feet I did once again basing them off my own. As I don't intend to show them off too much I did not continue with the knee area as it won't be seen.

Any comments more than welcome.

I'm off to bed...

04 April 2005, 09:26 PM
Hera I am yet again...

Ale... my man... you still have some issuse with both, the topology and the volume of your models! Those are very important aspects of 3d modeling. The arm+hand are too flat and bulgy! The legs are kinda fine, but the mesh is too dense in some areas which leads to bulgyness and incorrect shape, unfortunately... Watch my training videos, I show there how to get rid of unnecessary edges without disturbing the topology etc...

Keep it up dude, c ya :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 12:50 AM
Hey dude, thanks for the crits. Yes, I have been working on trying to make them a little more believable. There is a couple of thing that I try to keep in mind: the hands are those of a man that is slightly overweight, hence have chubby hands. But I see what you mean, after all, I modelled the hands after my own and hence the weird results. ;)

The feet I have to say are the ones that I was most happy with due to the fact that I did them in one day and they really were a labour of pain. I kid you not, physical pain. I was sitting down for way too long and by the time I finished all I could thing of was chopping my leg off... which would have been useful at the beginning of the day so I did not have to put my feet up on my desk so often.

The other thing is that due to the fact that this are my first real attempt at modelling something of the kind I am still trying to get a look for them that will fit the scene. A balance of a style and a correct way of doing it. GOD I LOVE 3D!!

Well dude, thanks again, hopefully I'll have the ears done by friday and have some finer renders of the face and hands with some changes on the feet. Then on to small rigs!!

04 April 2005, 05:00 AM
cant aruge with duber can you LoL... good luck man.. just needs tweaking .. 3d always needs tweaking LoL.. good luck man! getting there... im modeling my first human character too... pain in the ass

04 April 2005, 08:21 AM
cant aruge with duber can you LoL...

Nope... You are never allowed to doing so! :twisted:

04 April 2005, 01:26 PM
... little by little your work advance :thumbsup: ... will keep an eye tomorrow to see the face ...until now i think you must make fingers more "round" and the hand less flat ... for the face i'll keep comments for tomorrow ;)

04 April 2005, 12:07 AM
Fred76: Thanks for the comments man. Everybody has been pointing it out that the fingers are weird. I think that I'll have to even make his nails long and go past his fingers after rounding them out.

Neeno: No you cannot. And he loves every minute of it. Trust me, tried once and even though we settled it over a Quake III games (I think I lost :cry: ). I have put all things together now and will be tweaking tweaking tweaking. Its funny how now it is time to make his hands fat enough for people to see. Thanks again for the encouragement! :thumbsup:

loocas: Si si seńor. That's all I'm saying.

04 April 2005, 02:19 AM
ahahahah ... you just cant man!.. great stuff hope to see textures soon ale.. make sure you give sancho a nice big belly yeah??

05 May 2005, 01:42 PM (

Long time without posting. Way too keen to finish this. Here is an update of the donkey/mule with the bridle. I have done a bit of work since I last posted but will make sure they are up to scratch before posting ;)

05 May 2005, 01:48 PM (

As you can see, still in modelling. Shame, shame indeed. Well, at the moment I am still confident I will finish. Just got to add the wholes to the cinch, stirups and horse is done(plus mane and tail obviously). Hopefully will start on textures ASAP :eek:, don't look forward to this. After that, pose and lighting and well, post and final image. 6 days to go and many many hours in the PC. On we go...

05 May 2005, 02:51 PM (

*sigh* My project came to teeth crashing halt couple of nights ago when the time of texturing came. I know I am not too good with it. I managed to unwrap the head and here is a WIP of it. I think that I will do what we are supposed to do. If you don't want to show something hide it. Time to use lights to my advantage.

05 May 2005, 05:14 PM (

Well. Dunno which category fur fall under. Guess its a bit of mod and texturing. Truth be told, I know I won't have my original idea, but damn I will try my best to get the portrayal across. One for the furry ones :)

It still needs tweking. Very quick tweaking. Damn quick.

05 May 2005, 07:45 AM
This is something I did not want to do.

I have to leave the challenge.

I had my renders done with some basic lighting and compositing capture which I brought along on a DVD... which failed miserably. Cyclic redundancy. :'(

To be brief and straight, one if not, the best experience in 3D I've had so far. Good luck to the rest of you guys, I am very impressed with the quality of fellow CGTalk user. A real challenge and not my last for sure.
Thank you all for your comments and your help. Hopefully I will continue the project in a W.I.P. thread.

Thanks to all, best of luck


05 May 2005, 07:57 AM
For whats its worth I am sorry you are leaving the challenge.

I was going to emntion the undercut on the horses chin and I think if you use the mesh for any future projects you may want to consider making this less sharp, or makign the rest of the mesh as equally sharp, if you are going for a stylised look.

I had a large set of life challenges thown at me during my challenge as well, and it only affirms what our students tend to think. No matter what you plan for soemthing will always mess with your head if you work in 3d cgi!

good luck next time?!

05 May 2005, 09:19 AM
:cry: doood! :cry:

05 May 2005, 10:13 AM
very unforunant... but all the best my friend ...

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