View Full Version : Master and Servant 2D Entry: Cliff Cramp

03 March 2005, 06:03 AM
Cliff Cramp has entered the Master and Servant 2D.

Challenge Page (

Latest Update: Final Image: Cinderella (


03 March 2005, 06:49 AM
Good luck and have fun Cliff!

03 March 2005, 07:57 AM
Hello there! I wish u a great chalenge! :)

03 March 2005, 08:49 AM
Good to see you back again, Cliff! We only have two months this time so you may just have to limit yourself to one image! ;-) Best of luck!


03 March 2005, 09:08 AM
Hi cliff,

good luck to you. I´m looking forward to watch your thread grow.


03 March 2005, 09:41 AM
Hey Cliff, I really loved your GSO pic, I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with in this one. Good luck!

03 March 2005, 09:44 AM
goOd luck man :thumbsup:

03 March 2005, 09:54 AM
good luck :thumbsup:

03 March 2005, 01:29 AM
Thanks gang, I look forward to seeing more great work in this competition.

03 March 2005, 02:46 AM
Hey Cliff!

It's Crystal Webb. :) Can't wait to see what you come up with for this challenge. This should be a fun one!

Cheers and happy drawing/painting!

03 March 2005, 03:06 AM
Hiya, just pulling up a chair and getting comfy.... :)

Tommy Lee
03 March 2005, 06:15 AM
Hey Cliff! Good luck with this one...:thumbsup:

Cheerz buddy and looking forward to your first concepts


03 March 2005, 06:58 AM
Hey SideAche! Nice to see you around for the challenge again! :) Can't wait to see some of your work!

03 March 2005, 07:31 AM
Looking foreward to this one!

03 March 2005, 07:46 AM
Hey Clif, looking forward to your sketches, good luck!

03 March 2005, 07:49 AM
Looking forward to what you've got up your sleeves!

03 March 2005, 08:13 AM
Another master participating again! *subscribe* :)

03 March 2005, 09:04 AM

lets see some comps. lets see an award winning idea here. cheers.

03 March 2005, 12:15 AM (

Okay, I finally got time to do a couple of sketches. I'll get to more soon. I'm going to go with a Cinderella image for the first painting. I will add the other characters in the back in shadows. I just wanted to get a couple of sketches on the board to get me involved.

03 March 2005, 12:17 AM (

Sketch 2 of Cinderella. I haven't worked in the proper costume yet.

03 March 2005, 12:21 AM
Nice sketches Sideach!!!Do you have a story about it already?Good luck and fun to you!!!

03 March 2005, 12:30 AM
great poses! Is the mater servant angle just from the story or are you adding some other aspect as well?

03 March 2005, 01:38 AM (

I'm working from the Cinderella theme, since she was under the control of her step mother and step sisters. The mood will be created in the paint process.

03 March 2005, 02:15 AM
hey this one looks promising! i always like watching your progress.

my 2 cents: I'd put just a little more hair in her face, so she looks a little more opressed. She looks almost heroic right now. And the 3 in the back should look very clean but harsh, while cinderella looks messy but beautifull? I know the 3 in back are barely started. but thats my 2 cents! Looking forward to this one! :)

03 March 2005, 06:41 AM (

Just laying in some initial color and value.

03 March 2005, 06:43 AM
Thanks Adam, I do plan on going that direction. I'll work a lot of the detail out in paint.

03 March 2005, 06:45 AM
Pretty sweet, concept. Maybe she should show more emotion in her face. She looks abit empty, but otherwise 3 thumbs up !:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

03 March 2005, 08:25 AM
Great work, Cliff. It's simple, beautifully lighted and the expressions are natural and realistic. Yours has value for its humility. Keep it up.

03 March 2005, 08:41 AM
Great stuff man! The theme u chosen is great and well known, now I think u should bring some different elements to tell something more. Just my opinion :) Great technique as always!

03 March 2005, 09:39 AM
Hey Great to see you participating again :) I enjoy seeing your creating process already

Of course man cinderella !!!

I prefered cinderella looking to the right, don't know why...

I think it could be interesting to play more with the idea of slavery (do we say slavery ?). Something that will let understand in the picture, that her condition is going to change....

Of course we know the story, and we know what will happen, but I find interesting to make thing less black and white (I hope you understand what I mean :) ).

Anyway good luck, and your sketches are already full of life, we feel story for that poor cinderella.

03 March 2005, 09:47 AM
hey cliff,

hot stuff, man! :thumbsup: Great (dramatic) perspektive angle. I very much adore the character proportions and arrangement. Looks very promising in this early stage allready.


03 March 2005, 03:19 PM (

A little more blocking in.

03 March 2005, 03:20 PM (

Detail on the face.

03 March 2005, 03:23 PM
wow, cliff, that looks very nice !

03 March 2005, 03:27 PM
Hey !! This is really awsome about lighting and colours !!

Somthing strange about the composition perhaps... I think the composition can be better if the center of the head is in the center of the picture...

Anyway, I really love your girl... I really want to help her !!!

Another thing perhaps... Open the eyes a lil bit more and she will looks very frightened about something or somebody in the left...

That's great !! :thumbsup:

03 March 2005, 03:34 PM
looking really good man....lots of emotion going on in there...its really starting to come through....

my fav so far....awesome :)


03 March 2005, 04:10 PM
The environment of the colors I like good starting I wait to see
the continuation.

03 March 2005, 04:33 PM
Thanks gang for the advice and encouragement.

Blaz, I'll work some more stuff in. She will be holding a wash-cloth in her left hand I'll add water on the ground plus more.

Thierry, I'll try to work some of that in too. Thanks.

I'm thinking of bringing the Step mother forward just a bit to seperate her from the two sisters and allow us to see her better. I'll be working on costume and environment soon, still trying to develop the light and mood. Thanks again community.

03 March 2005, 04:38 PM
This is looking really sweet. Cool perspective and detail! I agree with CoreyArtE, perhaps a bit more emotion on her face will really bring her to life. I love the lighting coming from the front, it works really well! :)

03 March 2005, 04:38 PM
Cinderella, of course :applause: .......clever

and I even recognised her before I read the title damn proud of my self there :D

03 March 2005, 04:42 PM
mmmmh I was just thinking about spmething.... I had the problem for the space opera challenge.... With Dune related stuff....

Are we allowed to use existing stories or references ?

03 March 2005, 06:03 PM (

A bit more detail. I brought the step mother forward some.

03 March 2005, 06:10 PM
Great coloring and lighting there, Cliff! Nice layout too!

I think the step mother looks better more forward, but I'm not sure she's quite working yet. I know you're still working on that part of the painting, but have you considerred moving her a bit more screen-left? In the last 2 shots, she's almost coming out of cinderella's shoulder, and it might be appropriate to see a little more of her body free-standing. (Or move Cinderalla more to the right so that she's centerred, or extend the frame to the left...?) Also, evil step-mom isn't quite loking at Cinderella yet...

Anyhow, quite lovely, I can't wait to see this polished even more!


03 March 2005, 06:26 PM
Very nice coloring and lighting indeed, really adds to the atmosphere.

03 March 2005, 06:31 PM
The image has the potential to evoke a different emotional response by a variety of people. It is wide open to interpretation and I like that.

03 March 2005, 06:38 PM
wow, lovely work with the colour scheme. The stepmother is just tiptoeing that great balance between scary and believable and I love the way the sisters fade into the background even more now you've brought the stepmother forward. Cinderella's face is just right too, she's not drop dead gorgeous as we see her here, but you kind of know she has the potential to bloom, echoed by that farwaway look in her eyes. I look forward to finding out how this develops.

03 March 2005, 02:05 AM
Thanks Mike,
I agree. I'll add a bit more to the left of the image and move the step mother over some. Good conformation. Thanks bud.

03 March 2005, 02:28 AM
i'm subscribing this one,i love the overal mood,those ladies behind have real manacing looks which is good,perhaps u could add alil more emotion,a slighly gloomier expression for cinderella perhaps?:)

03 March 2005, 04:52 AM (

A few adjustments. I moved the step-mother to the left a bit and added some room on the left also. I,ll start working on the costumes and the environment next.

03 March 2005, 04:54 AM
loves the expression on her face + colouring. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

03 March 2005, 05:11 AM
It's going great so far! the emotions are very well depicted.

I actually have one comment/question/crit (What ever you would preffer to call it) though:
I have never undertood how come the whole family is always depicted in some poverty?
None the les they held asocial status high enough to be invited to the palace to attend the ball weren't they?
(Though I have once managed to come across a version of the story that actually had the prince invite every family that had a daughter to match his age)

The mood of the colours are great though.. I would REALLY not preffer to offer you change anything about it. But have you thought about dressing the two step sisters and the mother a little better? Or to make the room obviously a barn or soething? So it would be a place to carry such properties even for the richest hous in those ages.

Well just my two cents. I'm tagging along to watch your work progress.

Good luck!


03 March 2005, 05:25 AM
I like your paint, the study of light is very good and the choice of color is goord for the ambiance of the composition, i wait the suite:thumbsup:

03 March 2005, 05:59 AM
I think that positioning is working a lot better, Cliff! Now to just flesh everything out more. I'm looking forward to it. And I just have to say again how great her face is! :-)


03 March 2005, 06:42 AM
Great work Cliff! I have not seen any of your work yet and from the look of it, they are coming long well. I like the mood in this scene, the angle, lighting is very nice and I like how the background figures are poorly lite to give it more atmosphere. :)

Keep up the great work!

03 March 2005, 06:56 AM
great idea, your work has feelings and emotions on it. makes you
wonder how we can help the girl and how bad she felt being a slave/servant.
good work cliff!

03 March 2005, 08:49 AM
A good way to add drama on this composition is to change the lights a bit. At this point it still gives this feeling of hope witch cuts a bit from the main master and servant theme. The way I see it is with a strong light source coming from a hole in the ruff just above the main character's face, casting long and strong shadows over her face covering her empty eyes like all the hope is lost. Bring the mother close to her but leave her covered in shadow so we can see her silhouette and read her gesture. One other light source should be behind the mother character (also from a hole in the roof) showing the other two sisters but not entirely. The contrasts between the lights and shadows can create a great feeling of drama. The reflection from the lights can be used to show some subtle gestures on the characters faces..stuff like that.

03 March 2005, 02:54 PM
Thanks gang!

Black, I'll start with the costuming. Keeping Cinderella more plain.

03 March 2005, 03:03 PM
i may not be original with my opinion but this face i really beatuful. draws one's attention right away. looks so alive. i'm waiting for more updates.

03 March 2005, 05:40 PM (

I'm beginning to flush out some detail. i changed the position of the hand on the step-mother. Also working on the costume.

03 March 2005, 06:45 PM (

Close-up and girl and step-mother.

03 March 2005, 07:01 PM
Hi Cliff. Agree with the everyone else's opinion that this is great work so far. From a girly perspective though I would put tears in her eyes or perhaps have tear streaks on her face. Nothing over the top but just a hint at complete despair despite her trying hard to detach herself emotionally from her situation. Awesome stuff though! :bounce: Claireabella

03 March 2005, 08:35 PM
beautiful work cliff. the details and rendering of the overall piece, and more importantly cinderella's face is amazing. one thing that bothers me from the close up is the stepmother's hair. seems almost like a half a head too big...i dunno. looks odd to me. kinna picky i know. but not much to really crit. keep the updates coming. later.

03 March 2005, 08:51 PM
Damn, those poses are good. They look so natural. Pleasing colours too, although I can spot a few things that (IMO) need attention. First, the perspective on the floorboards varies alarmingly, from mild to acute. Then, the stepmother's hand. The pose is actually better, but because of the position it looks like the girl has grown an antler. Last, the lighting on the girl's face; her left (our right) cheek looks slighly concave because the lighting is too marginal.

03 March 2005, 11:13 PM (

Another update.

Thanks Baron, I corrected some of the floor perspective. I usually paint with approximate perspective to start and then correct. Man, there were a few lines that were quite off. I added a small bit of the sleeve to the step-mothers hand and knocked it back some.

03 March 2005, 11:43 PM
It's so hard to compete with you guys :applause: ? all I can is just throw in some ideas... Maybe it would be a nice thing to put something small and shiny in picture like necklace or something similar (a gift from godmother fairy)

THE Wizard
03 March 2005, 11:48 PM
Yea, I like it, thou I think its kind of too dark....but, it's fine. Great!

my master and servant 2d

03 March 2005, 12:48 AM
Man!!! Without words to speak him, all am liking this work. Mainly of the explanations about your modifications.

Good work!!

[] ' s

03 March 2005, 05:10 AM
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Now that I have things about right as far as the figures poses go, I'll begin to fine tune the image and add a bit more stuff, like water on the floor, etc.

03 March 2005, 05:14 AM
Cliff Cramp has entered the Master and Servant 2D.

Challenge Page (

Latest Update: Coloring WIP: Cinderella (

Another update.

Thanks Baron, I corrected some of the floor perspective. I usually paint with approximate perspective to start and then correct. Man, there were a few lines that were quite off. I added a small bit of the sleeve to the step-mothers hand and knocked it back some.

Nice composition. The colouring up is coming along nicely. Good job

03 March 2005, 05:35 AM
Thanks gang!

Black, I'll start with the costuming. Keeping Cinderella more plain.

You have not gone for the cliché very clean and enriched to compair to very dirty and poor dressing. That ads so much to the image. When you think back in those times.. the outfits were not exactly preserved well nor prepared for daily wear.

I like how everything is going.

Can't wiat to see your fine tunings


03 March 2005, 06:08 AM
Looking fantastic, I like the Cinderella concept. You've done all the characters splendidly, and I like the reworked floor a lot.
You might want to add something to the top-right of the drawing though. Gaze tends to wander off from there.

03 March 2005, 03:48 PM
great classic theme (cindarella) :)

Girl looks like Kirsted Dunst...grr :) The colorwork is brilliant and the mood is good. good job!

03 March 2005, 04:13 PM
I think the light on the pool girl can be more powerful.Do you think so?Nice job and best wishes.

03 March 2005, 06:12 PM
Thanks all for the encouragement. I have this week off, so I've moved through this one fairly quickly. Today and tomorrow are going to be family days, so not much updating. I'm also working on another concept after this one, since I think I'll get the Cinderella image done well in advance of the completion of the competition.

03 March 2005, 06:17 PM
thats excellent,

its so excellent,that i shouted at the sight of it,and it made my side....ache.



great work!

03 March 2005, 07:50 PM
Nice work so far Cliff! The lighting of your scene is very effective. I've no bad comments to say. :)

03 March 2005, 11:05 PM
i saw this pic yesterday or so and it really followed me through the day :) ... good work! that´s what i like most about art.. you close your eyes and "click" some pictures have a life of their own... good luck! :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 04:39 AM
Thanks everyone for the vote of confidence in this image so far.

NOOB :) With a last name like Cramp, sideache was an obvious handle :)

Now that my kids are a sleep and I'm finishing my taxes, I'd like to get an hour or two of painting in.

04 April 2005, 07:37 AM
Cinderella is a true classic and the three wicked sisters are a great example of 'M&S'.

Looks great so far... I like the way Cinderella is looking of into another world - Jez

04 April 2005, 12:24 PM
good drawing and consept.... keep it up

04 April 2005, 11:20 PM (

A few more details added and some clean-up of the image.

04 April 2005, 12:24 AM
Hi again Cliff. Fascinating to see how this is coming along. The colouring is coming up a treat, I love the contrast in skin tones between cinderella and the other figures, particularly the greenish cast to the sisters. The details are really starting to emerge too, fantastic job on the folds in the clothes, especially on the chest of the stepmother. How much reference, if any, do you use?

04 April 2005, 03:31 AM
Thanks Sam for the kind words. I had my niece model for Cinderella, ironically I haven't really developed the drapery on her yet. The clothing on all of them is out of my head except the initial folds from when I sketched Cinderella. I do ask my wife to strike a pose now and again to see if I'm too far off with the folds. That's when I make the corrections. Usually quite a few corrections are needed, Then I have to sinc them to the light source that I've created. Thanks again.

04 April 2005, 03:57 AM (

A few more details added to the environment and some clean-up.

04 April 2005, 04:28 AM
You know, this is probably a horrible detail to get a kick out of, but the wicked stepmother's old-lady figure, especially her slouchy breasts, just made this image for me. :D There's lots of other fabulousness going on--the lighting, the expressions, the way the stepsisters melt away into shadow--but somehow that really adds to the character of the piece.

The only itty-bitty nitpick I have is that the stepmother's far hand is currently looking a little "E.T. phone home"-esque.

04 April 2005, 04:49 AM
I really like the thin detail of the wet floor. And also the manner that you haven shown care to have it's lumination set to the light source it reflects...

But one small thing that sort of takes from the convincingness is the specularity on them. Is the resolution able to allow you to have them a bit thinner? And if possible with a thin dark shading contour from the ground?
My point is that the molecular attration has the droplets puddle op into a little blob. But it is more like a beveling function though it effects the whole formation of the water. So the thinner you go, the thinner the little bevel that would give out the specularity.
What it seems you have done is that you have allowed this specularity to spread out over the surface in accordance to the angle it recieves the light. Thats perfect. But I think that you should adjust that when it thins out, that it has long thinner streaks to what there are now, it might be a bit better.

Raw wooden surfaces (Which I believe is the ground coverage here), tend to absorb the water ... making it thiner than you would expect from a polished surface. Not to mention a variaty of irregularities depending on how much water has been absorbed.

Your work is coming together just fine!


04 April 2005, 02:35 PM
Imriela: lol, I see what you mean. I'll knock it back

Black: Thanks again for the thorough look. I will incorporate your suggestion.

04 April 2005, 02:58 PM
Wow I'm loving the angle and color use on this. The colors have that subtle feel, but they add to it so much more for that.

I'd have to say my favorite detail so far would have to be that wood flooring :D

Can't wait to see more

04 April 2005, 03:42 PM
Hi Cliff, it's coming on a treat! I like the intensity of emotion coming from the ugly sisters in the background, especially the creepy middle one with the dull malice. Technically it's going to be a great illustration, but I wonder about perhaps exploring the theme a little bit more, exploring Cinders' yearning for freedom or her escapist daydreams. One idea might be to push the lightsource lighting up the foreground into a shaft of golden sunlight, and have the floorboards gradually merge into a sunlit grassy meadow. That way she could be gazing on a beautiful vista and there would be more of a fantastical quality to the pic. You would probably have to move the closest sister to the right hand side though...

Hey, I'm just inspired by it, I really like it so far! Can't wait to see how it'll end up! :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 10:26 PM
Yrindale- thanks

Jesse- I'll have to think about that, thanks for the encouragement.

I'll continue with this image, though I am going to develop another idea around pirates. I developed this fairly quickly because I had most of this week off. So I may get to a couple other ideas during this competition.

04 April 2005, 10:35 PM
comming along super!

are you going to introduce some kind of light in the back? it seems a bit too dim.

04 April 2005, 12:38 AM
Overall the image looks real good, one little critique would be the step-moms left hand looks odd, and out of perspective...

agent bone
04 April 2005, 04:33 AM
Hey Cliff good to see you here, it is the one and only Eric Bonilla you know. Your piece is coming along nice! The one part that is bothering me is the negative space under Cinderella's left arm, its just to black maybe through some background or value in that shape to break it up. Can't wait to see more. Cya

04 April 2005, 09:51 AM
Fine idea in a good solution. Let those eyes talk! Congrats!

Tommy Lee
04 April 2005, 11:13 AM
Hi Cliff, it's coming on a treat! I like the intensity of emotion coming from the ugly sisters in the background, especially the creepy middle one with the dull malice. Technically it's going to be a great illustration, but I wonder about perhaps exploring the theme a little bit more, exploring Cinders' yearning for freedom or her escapist daydreams. One idea might be to push the lightsource lighting up the foreground into a shaft of golden sunlight, and have the floorboards gradually merge into a sunlit grassy meadow. That way she could be gazing on a beautiful vista and there would be more of a fantastical quality to the pic. You would probably have to move the closest sister to the right hand side though...

Hey, I'm just inspired by it, I really like it so far! Can't wait to see how it'll end up! :thumbsup:

I second that!
Keep it going my friend...:thumbsup:



04 April 2005, 01:30 PM
Great composition!
I love your classical painting appoach style too.
Guess you have strong background of it.
I love the color and atmosphere.
My one concern is the background looks like a inside ship more than a house.
Maybe it is caused by the rotated background, water on the floor, or no clue that indicating the background is a inside house.
Just little thought.
Keep it up!
I will keep my eyes on this!

04 April 2005, 06:26 PM
...have cinderella staring at a cobweb maybe with a spider in it or a pleasant looking bug, like a lacewing or a butterfly. mb not a butterfly.
good painting, i hate the ugly sisters! :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 09:19 PM
Beautiful composition sir. I really like the shape of the bucket handle attachment.

04 April 2005, 07:00 AM
Twoheaded: Thanks! I know I'm getting better when I can paint a bucket handle like that LOL

taeyoungchoi; Thanks, I'm still planning on working in more of the environment

GhostInTheMachine: thanks, not sure about the bug

Tremoside: Thanks

agent bone: Hey Eric, what's going on? yeah, there are a few dead areas that need addressing

Speaky: thanks, i'll consider that

Tommylee: Ditto

HammaJamma Thanks, yeah that hand still bugs me a bit.

Slav; Thanks; I'm going to lighten it a bit.

Thanks all for your two cents, keep em comin' and I'll be rich :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 08:18 AM
Hi Cliff. Looking good! :applause: Claireabella

04 April 2005, 12:08 PM
Hiya Cliff,

Nice take on a classic, very well excecuted and great emotion. You should be proud :)

04 April 2005, 01:57 AM (

I thought I would post some close-ups

04 April 2005, 01:59 AM (

Close-up #2

04 April 2005, 02:01 AM (

Close-up #3

04 April 2005, 02:07 AM
Great work! Do u use different layers for each colour? tks

04 April 2005, 03:04 AM
its lookin good. -yes, the bug idea was rubbish! just had a look at your space opera, very cool.

04 April 2005, 03:06 AM
wonderful work .. this one has jumped out at me a few times now .. thought i'd drop by and tell ya

good stuff :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 07:10 AM
This is a nice re-telling of a classic case of master and servant. I think the strength of this scene is knowing how the story turns out though. Is there any way to make that aspect more apparent? What about putting subtle references in the background of elements from the fairy-tale?

04 April 2005, 04:22 PM
Oh man while scrolling the previous page, the mother close-up scared me as hell :) hahaha

Excellent work on the faces, they have very different feelings, a lot of artist always do the same faces...

cinderella has sooooo beautiful eyes :)

04 April 2005, 09:16 PM
Thanks for kind welcome, really appreciate your comments,
this whole thing is very interesting,
I love the colors, and that girl with those eyes.....
got to check your Space Opera stuff

Good luck

04 April 2005, 09:33 PM
This one is good. I like that you have the twin sisters in the background in cool colors to tie the image together. I almost feel sorry for Cinderella be the stepmother is working her ass(cinderella) off. Good job!:thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 01:07 AM
Hey, I like this face!!!, waintig for more, adelante !!!

04 April 2005, 02:57 AM
Hi Cliff!

Love the painting so far! I just got on the forum and thought I'd say hello! -

Lisa Cermak-

PS... how do I get a pretty picture by my name?

04 April 2005, 05:21 AM
Thanks all!
For your kind words, encouragement, help and well wishes. Sorry that I can't respond individually for the next few days, I'll be busy, busy for the next few.

Hey Lisa, good that you could join.

04 April 2005, 05:26 AM
Cliff, here I am sir.
Its difficult to get feedback, My thread is lost in the sea of entries. I'll talk to myself to bump it up I guess.

04 April 2005, 06:28 AM
PS... how do I get a pretty picture by my name? Oh you donate a hundred Euro's to the forum's Swiss bank acount. Sounds expensive at first, but it has advantages :p

If you go over to your UserCP; you'll notice the option to do so on your left hand. Just upload from your hard drive an avatar fitting to the dimensions, or type in a ling to one you have on the net.

Cliff All has been said.. you're image is going as impressive as ever!
Are the close-up's on your actual resolution?


04 April 2005, 04:30 PM
Wonderful concept!! I really like the whole idea your runing with.
Works perfect for the contest, a great example of master and servant.

I really like her eye's.

04 April 2005, 06:12 PM (

Just posting another update:

04 April 2005, 11:15 PM
things are updating very nicely.
(Compliments on the new state of the water bit, wonderfully blended in. I see that at parts you have a natural passage into the viens of the wood aswel. a good catch!)

Would you be mad at me if I mention about something that might be a detail that might take your intrest?
the cuffs on her right hand...
You know the way that the metal they are made out of makes them fairly heavy such as to fall down to the hand (In this position) or to give some visible damage while staying hung up from being too tight? Well thats it. It is not a demanding change. But I thought I would bring it up incase it would catch your intrest to do something there.

As much as they are at the background.. I just love the two sisters in this picture, jux a posed. They look so well disturbingly what they are. Perfect depiction of how I had imagined them to be.

Anyhow; alot of compliments well deserved as have all of your updates yet.
Good luck!


04 April 2005, 01:04 AM
Great suggestion Black. It is most appreciated :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 01:42 AM
Hey cliff, did you tilt the horizon line on the most recent one? cause I remembered it was straight. Anyways, I think it works.

04 April 2005, 12:36 AM
Thanks Twoheaded and Frak for the kind words.

04 April 2005, 01:22 AM
Hi Cliff,
Very nice composition. The angle you chose is very appropriate!. I like it!.

04 April 2005, 04:40 PM
it looks really good!:thumbsup: won't make any commmments until you ad more color and shades...her right hand looks kind of ..too stiff..i don't know...but i wanna see how the shadows work on it....and her face looks wonderfulllllllllllll!

04 April 2005, 06:22 PM
It's always amazing to me how some artists make what appear to be really simple decisions when they are laying something out or adding new detail but in this piece your dark areas really make this thing shine (no pun intended.)

The fact that you're not scared of losing detail in the darker areas in this submission is fantastic and it actually makes me feel better about putting up my (less technically correct) work.

While I don't hope to achieve the same level of quality as you've already got in your piece, something about yours is making me want to stop posting and go work.

Good stuff.


04 April 2005, 07:33 PM
Tingham, Oro and Nailuj, thank you very much for the encouragement. Sorry I won't be posting much before Tuesday, got some deadline.

04 April 2005, 08:05 PM
Hey Cliff-

I love the water puddles on the ground.. maybe you can have some dripping from the pail too...


04 April 2005, 05:11 PM
the stepsister on the right looks to me like she has one long sleeve and one short sleeve. It looks really good so far. it is really nice to see a piece that has nothing to do with wizards, robots and especially sexual domination. seriously, its a breath of freah air.

04 April 2005, 07:59 AM
holy jeeball!!!

this is fantastic... i must watch this closly from now on... great work

ill be back to read threw the updates... awesome work

04 April 2005, 02:29 PM
Thanks everyone, sorry I haven't been able to update in a bit. I'm hoping for some free time soon.

04 April 2005, 10:42 PM (

I got rid of the step mothers hand and fixed the sleeve on the step-sister. Added a few minor details.

04 April 2005, 03:31 PM
Sorry gang that only one update has occured in the last week or so. I've been buried. I'm going to develop another concept when I can get to it. Prost!

04 April 2005, 04:05 PM
i cant remember if ive complemented ur lighting and compo before well there fantastic.. esspically the skill u have executed them with. the small details like refection and even the very bland like the dishes work great in the composition.

i have only 1 crit.... that being the step-sister on the left (i think thats right.. u know the short ugly one :P) her right arm is rather long.

well i feel content after looking at that im going for a ciggarette

04 April 2005, 07:53 PM
Thanks Tilite, that sure is a long arm. Ha! Thanks for the heads-up. I'll fix that in the next post.

04 April 2005, 08:22 PM
I really like the chains :D Good painterly look. Good luck!

04 April 2005, 02:27 AM
The contrast between cinderella's face and the background is working exceptionally well. IT SINGS!

04 April 2005, 05:29 AM
Thanks Fooxoo and two-headed. This one is just about done, maybe a couple of more updates and then I'll play with another image.

04 April 2005, 10:00 AM
perfect face expressions

04 April 2005, 11:10 AM
Very nice drawing!! you should perhaps add more contrast to the first character in order to make her more important in comparaison with the other..make a test a teel me what do you think about it:)

04 April 2005, 02:25 PM (

Fixed the arm length on the sisters, add of few marks to the main figures arms. Added a brush on the ground and a bit more detail. This one is close to being done, I\'ll play with another idea or two soon.

04 April 2005, 02:32 PM
yeh this does look very good:thumbsup:

good job on the arms too lol,

a few more images for what... M&S of just personal?

04 April 2005, 05:32 PM
great man!! wicked style!!

can't wait the finished one^^ the face is beuatiful , love the emotion :)

04 April 2005, 08:14 PM (

I'll come back to my other image later. just thought i would flush out another idea. Master and servant concept of servant to the elements. In this case, the elements are represented by Neptune. Not sure if it really fits the concept of M&S, however i'll just play with it for a while.

04 April 2005, 09:17 PM (

line art

04 April 2005, 09:21 PM (

These are posted close together, because i didn't want to stop. I'll play with this image a bit more to see if it is working. I'll probably go back to my other one because it has more of a M&S feel to it. i'll give this a try though.

04 April 2005, 09:46 PM (

Another color update

04 April 2005, 09:49 PM
Man you are on a rampage. You colored that stuff pretty fast. Keep it up.:thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 05:16 AM (

more color work

04 April 2005, 12:39 PM
What the HELL is happening on the forums?!!
Everyone is finishing!! And I am not even half way! :cry:

Cliff your first concept was avery good one, and you have not failed to depict it in a very fitting style. It is definately of the better works in the competition...
Nothing too much I can really see that should be sticking out... only minor tweeks. I was actually going to nag again and ask for you to darken/burn the reflection on the puddle on the right.. but when I gave it a second thought.. water does manage to enhance luminence.
I don't know how much more little tweeks you shall be going for.. but even if you leave it as it is; it is amazing.

Good Luck!:thumbsup:

As for the new concept/sketch/colouring WIP... man how FAST do you actually work?!! It took me almost 5 hours to paint my bricks... and that was only the ones that weren't to be covered :sad:

I too am not exactly sure on how you intend on combining it to the concept at this stage. It is looking like a very impressive image at even this early state though. Be it relevent or not, I would really like to see you finish this one out


04 April 2005, 02:15 PM
Thanks Black, the firts painting still works for me too as far as concept goes. This competition is always hard for me because I paint fast. Developing a painting over months is working on patience in me. Plus I get burried in the form when I paint fast. I'm happy with the first image, so I thought I would paint a couple more and then go back to it. Thanks again.

04 April 2005, 09:44 AM
see now i am sad ... the 1st concept has such a was feel ... probably can be produced with really moody lighting... but this new thing you drew up is kind of bigger on the epic scale i think you can really play around with the idea of neptune... would be really interesting to see... but i think there is another entry with this kind of sea creature idea... no doubt you have seen it.

but i cannot say more... i love stormy nights/days anything. its the only time to stay in and draw to your hearts content! :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 03:18 PM
Looking good Cliff, I like this new concept, except for neptunes massive navel. It's like the Grand Canyon. :D Just kidding!
But it is pretty big.

:wise:I do however like the cenderalla theme much better, it has a certain subtley and elegance to it.

04 April 2005, 04:18 PM
Holy Moly, you're starting another concept? Wow, you do work fast. I like the new one, very different from the cinderella post, much more drama and intrigue. The lines the rigging create are a nice way to direct attention to the figures. Not sure about the pose of the man at the wheel, he looks at the moment like he's lost in a daydream, or remembering that he left the oven on bkc at home while the storm tears his ship apart! If Neptune is whipping up a storm so dramatically, it would be nice to see the same kind of energy in the figures on the boat in whatever emotions they're experienceing, determination, fear, etc. But it looks good. If you finsh both, I'd be hard pressed to choose.

04 April 2005, 05:14 PM
Really nice action and composition.

04 April 2005, 09:44 PM
Thanks gang! This image is one that I'm having fun with. The first one is probably the one I will go with because it fits the theme better.

Frak3, don't worry, I'll fill in that hole :eek:

04 April 2005, 10:49 PM (

Finally I had time to work a bit on this one

04 April 2005, 11:11 PM (

Another quickie update

04 April 2005, 02:23 AM (

I don't know if I'll finish the other image because I think this is still the front-runner of the two.

04 April 2005, 06:25 AM
i agree... i think u would have to pull something pretty fantastic out of ur arse to make the neptune image better. i cant compahend it but if u know something and have the time... do it!

04 April 2005, 06:31 AM
I agree tilite. The Neptune image was pretty much just for fun and I probably won't finish it because i think the Cinderella image is much better for this competition.

04 April 2005, 06:43 AM
Hope I'm posting to the right spot....It's turned out very nicely. Good sense of lighting and I really like the wood textures.

04 April 2005, 02:48 AM
Thanks Tenshiryuu

04 April 2005, 05:29 PM
I think the Cinderella image is my fav of the two and I'm really liking the stepmother's expression!:thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 08:38 PM
Nice lighting, SideAche. Though I do like your other image (and am curious to see what it would look like if brought to finish) I agree that this one is, perhaps, the stronger of the two. Also, beautiful textures.

04 April 2005, 03:29 AM
To my personal opinion.. just like the Cinderella entry.. you have a character that really catches the attention and a second one not as impressive, but ahead of the others in the image...
And though I have to agree that the pose of your main character in the Neptune is dearly impressive to compair... it is:
1 needing a LOT more work
2 still unable to make it obviouse to me on how it relates to the M & S.

I have to agree with Tilite up to a point.. With a diffrence that I believe that you would be able to manage finding a way to make it look just as amazing. But I am in serious doubts if it would be worth the effort and stress to make it to the deadline. I would say just go back to it as you wish to; regardless to any efforts or restrictions to what the competition permits.


04 April 2005, 01:46 AM
Thanks gang!

Black I agree, I'll work on the Neptune image at my leasure. It was fun to sketch up, however it doesn't fit the M&S in my opinion. I'll stay with the first one for now. I haven't been posting much because work has been busy. I might try another concept if I can get caught up with work. I will resolve the Neptune image in time, I'm a bit bored of it at the moment. Thanks again.

04 April 2005, 04:57 AM

Congratulations, this one is going just too fine!
The neptune one is not as relevant as this one to M&S.
This is really a 'readable' and catching image.
'Dreammer eyes' on the young one eh? Looking upward...
Very interesting.

Will keep track.

Take care and good luck!

04 April 2005, 07:42 AM
For my personal ego's sake.. don't do a third!!! I haven't even done half of one! :cry:

Well painting is always fun... and the way you paint is time definately well spent. If you are TOO bored, why not :)

Damn are you fast:thumbsup:


05 May 2005, 09:22 PM (

Final Coloring. I adjusted the light a bit also.

05 May 2005, 08:46 PM (

Just a few more adjustments.

05 May 2005, 08:55 PM
haha the thumbnail looks like its sum kinda hardcre porno,girl gettin it from behind and two guys jerking off in the background.


looks excellent!!!

05 May 2005, 09:57 PM

05 May 2005, 11:46 AM
Very expressive :)

05 May 2005, 10:25 PM
So you are finally submitting eh?

Cliff.. I have to say that you have done a wonderful job in your entry.. there has been some changes to what you had started off with.. but none the less all to your best of intrest.. and from start to now, I have to say that your entry has proven itself to be very impressiv.

Good Luck to you and May the best come to you from this! :)


Ps: Don't mind NOOB!, he has.. eehm Hormons... But is a very good person and is learning to deal with it :)
Good luck again!

05 May 2005, 01:00 PM
:applause: Great work, I see not many have finished yet...including me...BWAH!

Great emotion you captured it well my friend :thumbsup:

05 May 2005, 03:30 AM
Looking good cliff! I'm glad you took the brightness down.. the overall piece is great... do you think your done? or are you going to work on it more.. if so, i don't know what you'd do, cause it looks great!


05 May 2005, 10:01 AM
Hey cool idea, i like very much the expression and the pose of main caracter, i think you need to concetrate to the secondary caracters of this piece...good luck

05 May 2005, 04:09 AM (

Well, here is the final

05 May 2005, 04:12 AM (

Well, here is the final

05 May 2005, 04:16 AM (


05 May 2005, 05:24 AM
Amazing work! Look forward to seeing the final version! :bounce:

05 May 2005, 06:02 AM
I'm digging the updated look; the slaternly stepmother, stepdaughters. In fact, it's all so very depression era (to me), and the lighting and color echo lives of quite desperation for all four. You think.. okay, it's the Cinderella type on the floor who's the servant, and then you see the look in her eyes and realize, they will never be able to touch her. Well done.. and much good luck with the Challenge..


05 May 2005, 03:58 PM
Thanks guys for the kind words!

05 May 2005, 04:06 PM
AMAZING lightning, lovely character expressions. Also, I love the painterly look of the whole. Hell, I dig your style totally :]

05 May 2005, 05:12 PM
Finished?Pretty good,but I guess this is not your best,isn't it?

05 May 2005, 02:27 AM
Finished?Pretty good,but I guess this is not your best,isn't it?

Actually, I'm pleased with this image. Quite pleased.

05 May 2005, 03:14 AM
Actually, I'm pleased with this image. Quite pleased.
Yeah I really like it. It's nice to see somthing besides a pirate. :eek: I KID :applause: I KID :eek:
What i really like about this one is that it is very emotional, yet stoic at the same time. Kudos!

05 May 2005, 04:47 AM
Looks good man, hope to see more from you soon.


05 May 2005, 04:49 AM
my final comment!! GOod job!!.. Although it's a rough finish but it's unique!.:thumbsup:

05 May 2005, 01:12 PM
Congratulations on finishing ur pic man! The chains and sharp looks really do well to the whle atmosphere, and a violet light in the back pop up the first plan even more. Great piece of art and good luck to u! :)

05 May 2005, 12:40 AM
Thanks everyone. My style is a bit looser than most, so I can see how some people can interpret that it's not finished. Thanks for the kind words.

05 May 2005, 01:46 PM
Congratulations! I like the power of simplicty here. You expressed yourself without full fx and tricks. Pure talent...:bowdown:

05 May 2005, 02:43 PM
hi cliff,

congrats! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

this was looking amazingly emotional intense from the beginning.. i´m really stunned by the vivid presence of the characters..

i´m glad you didn´t overdue it with "special-firework-effects" (<-- :)) because i think that can sometimes kill a picture.. a matured loose style like this is much harder to achieve i think.. :arteest:

once again: one of my favorites from the beginning!

wish you the best luck!



05 May 2005, 02:45 PM
nice pic, good luck for the end

05 May 2005, 02:53 PM
btw: i just saw your website :)..

the comic "sweet dreams" is sooo cute and funny :)

05 May 2005, 08:35 PM
Thank you Benita for the very kind words.

05 May 2005, 08:54 PM
Looking good, Cliff. I would criticize constructively, but I don't see anything that I don't like. :D

05 May 2005, 04:21 PM
Looks Awesome Cliff! Thanks for all the imput on mine! Good luck!

05 May 2005, 04:23 PM
You too!
Take luck!!!

05 May 2005, 04:24 PM
You too!
Take luck!!!

Very nice cliff, i love the character you developed. She is quite beautiful, in apperance and demeanor!

05 May 2005, 10:21 PM
YOU TOO!!! Thank-much YOU TOO!!!

05 May 2005, 10:23 PM
good stuff man... i have not been around here in a while but i am glad you made it!

the image looks wicked.

05 May 2005, 08:47 PM
good stuff man... i have not been around here in a while but i am glad you made it!

the image looks wicked.

No worries Slav. Thanks, it was another good competition. I always enjoy these.

06 June 2005, 12:25 AM
i still like this one a lot.. :thumbsup:

hope to see you around next time!

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