View Full Version : Master and Servant 3D Entry: Ben Schoeffler

03 March 2005, 01:02 AM
Ben Schoeffler has entered the Master and Servant 3D.

Challenge Page (

Latest Update: Modeling: Slow progress...... (

Well here is my slow progress. I fixed the hands as much as I could and I added some wind to the dress and a bra and hair. I'm not sure if the hair looks OK, i could use some critiques on improving it. I'm totally slammed with work so I think I'm going to have to cut down the quality on some of the models if I intend to finish this project in the tiem allotted (which I do). Comments and critiques very welcome!

03 March 2005, 01:13 AM
Good luck everyone, and don't forget to add links in your signatures!!


03 March 2005, 01:23 AM
Good luck on your entry. :)

03 March 2005, 01:30 AM
thank ArtisticVisions, I just came up with a fantastic idea and i'm going to get it down on paper before anyone else has it!!


03 March 2005, 01:32 AM
Good luck.

03 March 2005, 01:38 AM
Have Fun and Good Luck :thumbsup:

03 March 2005, 01:45 AM (

Well here is my idea so far. Basicall there is a guy who has the ability to control ghosts, but he doesn't just control any ghosts, he only controls those who have commited suicide. I'm sure i will figure out some way for the master to control them that is obvious to the viewer, probably an amulet or something that he holds. All the ghosts behind him will be reinacting their deaths which they are damned to do while they are in his service. It's hopefully going to be a very dark image, but i'm trying to figure out a way to make it have a twinge of hope. I'm contemplating the reason that he controles these ghosts is he visits those about to commit suicide and scares them out of it. Or something like that. I'm not entirely sure yet since the challenge was only released 45 minutes ago :) Anyway, tell me what you guys think of my idea!!! (oh yeah, pardon my horrible drawing skills)

03 March 2005, 01:47 AM
Hahaha weeeeeeee first one to submit anything for this challenge :)


03 March 2005, 01:48 AM
Best of luck, that's definitely an "outside the box" idea you have there.

03 March 2005, 01:49 AM
Off and running already... Well, it's a decent concept, bit Frightenerish. Making ghosts could be a whole lot of fun, there are so many possibilities.

03 March 2005, 01:50 AM
Haha thanks Kjc, I'm hoping it will evoke a lot of emotion and pitty from the viewer for the ghosts. I think the reason i came up with it was because i've been listening ot the ring/ring two soundtrack for the past 2 hours :)


03 March 2005, 01:51 AM
Off and running already... Well, it's a decent concept, bit Frightenerish. Making ghosts could be a whole lot of fun, there are so many possibilities.

I've never seen frighteners, but i think i've seen the movie box (i used to work at a video rental store). Is that the one with michael J fox?


03 March 2005, 02:22 AM
Wow man look at you getting started already! :twisted:

03 March 2005, 03:21 AM
Yep that's the movie. His wife died mysteriously in an autowreck (he was driving) and since then he's aboe to communicate with ghosts. So, he's a lonely, depressed grifter and he teams up with these three ghosts and makes living by shaking people down for money by having the ghosts haunt their houses while he comes in as a paranormal investigator and chases the ghosts out. There's more to it. It's a fun movie, actually.

03 March 2005, 09:05 AM
Haha, sounds like a fun movie, i'll have to check it out :)

03 March 2005, 09:50 AM (

Well here's what I have so far, it's the head of an asian girl. She's suppose to look about 16 years old or so, but it seems like she looked younger about halfway through the modeling process than she does now :( Any tips on making her look younger and more 'asian'? I'm not sure about her outfit yet (tempting to go with the schoolgirl outfit...) or how her hair is going to look. I'm pretty sure she is going to be the one slitting her own throat with a kitchen knife. That does seem an odd way to commit suicide (although i've heard true stories of people decapitating themselves with chainsaws as ways of committing suicide). I'm trying to get as much done as quick as possible since I have to model about 4 characters and I want it to look good. Also i was wondering if 6 hours is about average it takes people to model a head to this stage? I realize more tweaks need to be made, but is that fast or slow or about average speed?

I also figured out more of the story I think. Well the master is going to be a 'priest' most likely, in his hand is going to be probably the bible and a book with the title "Is suicide REALLY the answer?" or something to that effect. Basically i'm set on the idea of a priest or councellor scaring young people out of suicide by meeting them at their home or his office and basically he calls his ghost servants out and it scares the pants off the person wanting to commit suicide. Although, i'm struggling with a way to show this all in one image. Ideas? Changes to the story perhaps? Basically the only ideas that i'm officiall married to are:
1. The ghosts have to be suicide victims
2. The person controlling them has to somehow show that he is controlling them. I'm thinking showing glowing chains from his hand to the ankles of all the ghosts.

Anyway, feel free to give me hard critiques, really let me have it, i love honest critiques!!!

Thanks everyone for looking, time for me to get some sleep!

03 March 2005, 10:10 AM
I guess more tips on how to make my model look more female/asian/younger. hehe :) Thanks all!


03 March 2005, 10:37 AM
off to a flyer. as for the model, it seems as if the eyes are spaced a bit far apart. Also, the cheeks look a bit manly i think. do yuo have many reference images?

03 March 2005, 10:41 AM
Well, if you go with the priest character as the master, you can make it so that he is holding a glowing rosary while the ghost where a rosary around their necks too. I think chains would be a bit too cliche. Just a thought. And about the girls face, well younger people usually have softer/rounder features, not so well-defined. I am sure you can find plenty of young asian girls for refrence. Maybe puffier cheeks could help; I have an asian friend who is 19 and she can pass off as a 16 year old because her facial features are soft and her cheeks are kind of puffy. The nose could use some work, looks like the clay is pinched. Bottom lip could be a bit smaller, but that just might be personal prefrence. You got started quick. Turning up the heat already huh? I'd just recommennd some refrences and you should be good.

03 March 2005, 11:04 AM
joshcxa - I think you are right about the eyes, i thought i read somehwere that asian eyes are spaced slightly farther apart than other races. But if it looks odd, I will fix it :) Thanks!

ace4016 - I really love the idea of the glowing rosary in his hand and around the necks of the ghosts!! I'm definitly going to use it! I also think you were right about the rounder faces, i think thats what made it look younger in the beginning of my modeling, later in the model i stretched the face out a bit and defined features more :) I will definitly soften it up. As for the nose, i think that my lighting/material makes it look weird. I'll post a screen capture tomorrow (well i guess later today, its 3am!!) and hopefully the nose won't look as weird. I really want to get a specific nose for this character, kind of a young, pushed up cute little nose that PoshSpice usually has on her drawings.

But then again, that might not fit the ethnicity i have chosen for this model. What does everyone think?

Oh yeah, I specifically made the lips a little larger than normal. I want to make them 'poutier' than they are now, kind of like a younger version of Qi Shu lips. Maybe not that big, but you get the idea.

I feel like a frankenstein mixing and matching all my favorite parts of different women :) haha. Oh the joy of CG.


03 March 2005, 11:30 AM
It might be possible to do a button nose like poshspice does (i like the button nose girls she makes), might take a bit of experimenting though to fit the ethnicity. I wish i had a picture of my friend, not sure but i think she has a cute nose too, but its been almost a year since i've seen her. I see where you're going with the lips now. Form the side view, it looks like her nose goes out a bit much, maybe it can be pushed in some.

03 March 2005, 11:56 AM
Damn my "refresh brother", you're moving fast! It's going to be hard to keep up with you!:D

03 March 2005, 12:05 PM
Are you kidding? I spent about 3 hours last night just going over ideas in my head and you've created a head! Go man Go! :)

03 March 2005, 01:36 PM
Hahaha, time's running, keep up the pace! Bestr luck and laodsa fun, cheers :beer:

03 March 2005, 02:58 PM
Wow, that was fast. :eek:
As for C&C, the lips look a little funny (might be kinda big).

03 March 2005, 10:36 PM
ace4016 - If you could find a picture of you're friend that would be great :) I'll have to toy around with the nose a bit more, but if i can't get it in an hour or two i'm just going to move on and come back to it later :)

erilaz - haha thanks, i'm trying to move as quick as i can handle for a few reasons. 1. I lost interest in things quickly 2. I've never made 4 full characters in 2 months.

Kid Mesh - haha thanks kidmesh, maybe i should have thought over my idea longer, i guess i'm just impulsive :)

the1st_angel - haha, i'll try and keep this pace until i'm finished!

ArtisticVisions - Thanks for the critique, I'll tone down the lips a little I think. :)

Thanks all for commenting! You make me want to complete stuff even faster!


03 March 2005, 11:01 PM
Wow, this is leaping ahead! If I was doing a 3D model, I'd still be pulling me first vert! Good luck Shaykai!

03 March 2005, 11:07 PM
Nice start so far. poly flow is good too. Keep it up.

03 March 2005, 11:59 PM
PoshSpice - Thanks posh! Pushing polys at work, and pushing polys at home is going to have me burnt out by the time this contest is done! I do however feel blessed that i'm able to do what i Love 24/7.

cg219 - Thanks, there are still a few polyflow errors that i'm going to try and clean up, but i'm pretty happy with the base mesh :)


[edit] Well guys I went hunting for more references and I found a couple that are damn near perfect. I will post an update tomorrow morning.

03 March 2005, 02:36 AM
Look forward to the update :)

03 March 2005, 03:02 AM
nice start man.. im still in the concept stage.. fussing over my bad drawing.. haha

will be watching :)

Tommy Lee
03 March 2005, 05:52 AM
Good Luck buddy...



PS: Thanks for popping in to my thread. BTW, the avatar is my girlfriend and me:twisted:

03 March 2005, 10:42 AM (

Well I didn't get as much done tonight as I would have hoped. It turns out I've never modeled a female before!! I didn't realize this fact until I started modeling the breasts. As for the breasts i'm trying to keep them kinda small, i think it fits the character more, but feel free to critique the hell out of them anyway since I think its harder to get smaller breasts looking right compared to larger ones. :)

I took everyones tips on the head and i think it looks a lot better now. I made the lips smaller horizontally and they are how I pictured them in my head. I guess when everyone said "Make them smaller" i was only thinking about how tall they were not how wide they were.

The head also isn't as tall as before, and i tweaked the ears by making them slightly larger and with less sharp edges. Oh yeah, how does everyone like the nose now? I forgot to include a profile shot, but i think you can get the gist of it from the frontal view. I think it looks very 'posh' now. Then again ive been staring at it for a few hours so i can't really trust my own judgement :)

I started messing with the hair and I stopped after 15 minutes because I think i'm going to do the technique where you just texture planes instead of going the 'fur' route. The only problem is i haven't done this before, so i don't know if i should just try and learn maya hair, or try and learn the plane technique. Anyone have some suggestions? Links to tutorials perhaps?

Let the critiques roll!


After not having looked at my model for about half hour, and now looking at this picture, I think the breasts maybe need to be slightly larger. We'll see. I actually think its the torso that is making them look off. I haven't really messed with stomach yet, but hopefully by the time i'm done it, it will look better. I think my whole body has a squared off look, I need to make it more round i guess. haha, anyway, let the critiques fly!!! I really want to improve this and the only way to do that is with awesome critiques like you guys have been giving me! Keep it up!

03 March 2005, 12:44 PM
Good start, Ben :thumbsup: As for the boobies (good choice of size incidently, *applause*) I think they would sit better if you dropped them downwards a few notches... although small, it's still a rather soft construction that would look better with some down-drag (more of an aestethic consideration rather than a purely realistic one) Overall on the body, watch your curves and roundness: you want smooth soft slopes and arcs all over the place.


Found a "boob reference" here, a real classic, might be useful ->

03 March 2005, 03:36 PM
As for critques:
1. the point of the nose could be a bit rounder/not so pointy.
2. the area where the jaws connect to the head look kinda odd for some reason.
3. the torso could be smaller.

Cheers. :thumbsup:

03 March 2005, 04:52 PM
from the side (or as far as i can tell) she looks very angry.. and I think her forhead might be too flat.

The nose I dont know if i like so much.. ya i think its a bit pointy..

Anyways thats all from me for now, keep up the good work man!

03 March 2005, 07:27 PM
Nice work so far.
How do i include my link in my signature?

03 March 2005, 01:44 AM
JamesMK - I think you are right about the boobs, i'll drop them a few notches like you suggested. Thx for the reference, incidently i didn't use a reference while i was making them, i just went from memory so i'm not suprised they are off. I'll make everything more curvy too :)

ArtisticVisions - I'll work on that nose, and i'll go over my referneces for the jaw/neck area. It doesn't look weird to me though, is there something specific that doesn't look right about the jaw/neck area? My references might help solve that problem, I'll tweak it regardless :) Oh yeah, i'll definitely work on the torso too!

Geta-Ve - You are right about her looking kind of angry from the side, I'll tone down the brow a bit. I'll tweak the nose to make it less pointy :)

abz - Thanks for the compliment! You can add a link to your thread by copying the thread URL, then going to your User Control Panel and clicking on the signature button. Then wright something like "My Master & Servant Challenge entry!" then select it, click the button near the top right below the smiley face that looks like a little world with a chain next to it, and then it will ask you for the URL of your thread, then just paste the text you have copied. Wala! That should work :) PM me if you have any problems.

Thanks everyone for all the great critiques!!! They have really helped me out! There probably won't be another update until this weekend, but it should be a big one when i do update (hopefully she will be full modeled!).

Thanks again!


03 March 2005, 02:48 AM
So far so good, Females used to give me the flux modeling wise until I learned how to model using splines (female models love splines :twisted: ). But I model everything else box modeling style.

Your getting there though, its still early. There is one thing, the space between the nose and the eyes seems like they could be a little closer together which overall would mean shortening it up between both th eyes, nose and mouth. That might make her look a little younger though :shrug:

But hey...experiment away.

03 March 2005, 02:52 AM
great progress so far, see ya keep it up mate :)

ok, here a little list i'd work out, but thats jsut my own personal taste. :)

Head: Alloverproportions are looking good. forehead, browbow area, could use a bit more volume in that "pit", so the angy effect should disappear. the strong extending browbows are a male atribute, females have a softer curvature there.

Eyes: shape is very nice. i'd enlarge then 5-10% or bring them a slight bit closer together. eyes separationdistance more or less is an eyewith, but its not urgently nessesary. Nose cheek transition: i's moove out that area on the side of the nose, you have a musclegroup there wich stars upon the nosewing and subsurrounds the eyearea. so just follow that flow :)

ears: sideviw looks good. the frontal view placement could be a bit more rotated downwards (lower area moved in zdirection local towards the head, short inwards)

Collarbones look a bit "stringy, could use a bit more local with (just select ring-edges and scale a bit)

chest: looks fine for me. base volume fits to her type of face. I agree with James about the height of the breast positioning. a reference angle for the positioning, nipples from topview are having something around 90 degrees between of them. jsut the direction. on mall breasts, could be a bit less.

hope the one or the other point helps you, keep it up, and rock em all!!!:wip: :beer: :buttrock:

03 March 2005, 04:44 AM
Kid Mesh - I nevered learnd to spline model, Maybe i'll have to try it out for the other female ghost i'm going to do. Although I'll probably just end up swapping out heads and reusing the body of this girl (with some modifications of course). I'll make the eyes closer since it seems like i always want them to be far apart for some reason!

the1st_angel - Thanks for the critique! very thourough. :) The brow is probably so strong since i'm so used to modeling male faces.

Could you explain this a little more: "Nose cheek transition: i's moove out that area on the side of the nose, you have a musclegroup there wich stars upon the nosewing and subsurrounds the eyearea. so just follow that flow :)" I didn't quite understand.

I'll definitely take your advice about the ears/collar bone/chest. :)

I also would like everyones opinion on facial expressions. Obviously right now they are just default expressions that i will change for the final model, but i was torn between either making them one of these 3 expressions:

1. Sad: I think if they were crying while committing their acts of suicide could bring a lot of emotion up in the viewer.

2. Totally calm: Almost a bored expression, maybe the eyes would be wider and more "shocked" while they do their acts.

3. Horror: Screaming in pain as they cut their wrists/throat.

Basically i'm torn between number 1 and 2, since i think that would bring out the most emotion. Here are some pictures of possible expressions i'm thinking of.

(no nudity, but both have some see through clothing with underwear underneath)

What does everyone think?


03 March 2005, 05:05 AM
ArtisticVisions - [/b]I'll work on that nose, and i'll go over my referneces for the jaw/neck area. It doesn't look weird to me though, is there something specific that doesn't look right about the jaw/neck area? My references might help solve that problem, I'll tweak it regardless :) Oh yeah, i'll definitely work on the torso too!

I guess what I mean by that is from a straight-forward view, the area where the ear and jaw connects to the head looks like kinda "pointy" (look at the upper-left image); there should be a smoother transition in that area.

03 March 2005, 12:31 PM (

Well for the past 30 minutes i've been brainstorming ideas on the final composition i'm going to create, what message i want to send, and listening to nine inch nails. Here's what i've come up with:

Basically I think I want to do something darker (maybe its the NIN influence?). One of the reasons is because it is easier to get across the message "This guy is evil, he captures souls that committed suicide" instead of "This guy may look kind of bad but he's actually good and hes a sucide prevention councelor that uses ghosts to scare people out of committing suicide." Maybe i'm just not smart enough to think of a way to express the latter in one image.

So I think instead I will go the route of the guy pretty much being evil. The image will basically be a close up of a girls hand on the edge of a bathtub and her wrists are cut. You will be able to see her soul starting to lift from her hand as the life slips away from her. One of the key parts of the image will be mirror above the sink which will reflect the man, and the girl, but not the ghosts. Then again perhaps i could switch this around and make the mirror larger and only show the ghosts in the mirror surrounding him but not be able to see it in real life. Hmm... that could be a good idea I think, but the environment would have to lend itself well to doing this. I don't want to spend hours creating characters you can barely see, but maybe thats what great artists do?

The character may or may not be a priest still.

The sketch i made shows the girl in a bathtub in the bottom of the picture with her soul slowly leaving her in red. The priest is the figure on the left and the mirror on the right shows his reflection with tons of ghosts around him. I'm not sure if i like this idea or not, i think it will be harder to show the master/servant relationship this way. Comments are wanted.

[edit] I think i will reverse what i have in the concept art and show the ghosts in real life, but not in the mirror. That way i can show a few ghostly shapes cowering away from the man, and go with the rosary or some sort of neckless idea like before. Perhaps the man will be stepping forward with the neckless like he is about to put it on the soul that is leaving the body. What does everyone think? Feel free to be honest, if it sounds like a bad concept feel free to suggest something else within my guidelines of
suicidal ghosts = servants
priest/someguy = master

Thanks guys :)

03 March 2005, 07:03 PM
nice, i like the new direction your going in.

One idea I just had for this could be you have the dead suicide girl, then the guy "ripping" out her soul, as if hes claiming it for himself, and have her soul trying to "hold on" to her body as if shes trying to escape this mans "claim" on her.

to add to this you could have him chaining her up or something or just show him with lots of chains on him (as if this is his profession)

the body of the girl would be expressionless and lifeless, while the soul of her would be screaming and just pure terror, the man would be menacing... umm maybe even distraught? as if to say "im getting to old for this shit" :p pardon the language. or you could just have him loving every minute of it

anyways, thats just another idea I had when i read your new direction.

Something i like in your ideas though is the mirror thing. If you go with that idea, you definatly only want to see the ghosts in the mirror and not in real.. if you know what i mean?

Anyways, definatly going to keep watching. This is getting interesting :D

03 March 2005, 10:18 PM
Looking good Ben! waiting to see more !

03 March 2005, 10:50 PM
Geta-Ve - Fantastic suggestions! I like the idea of him grabbing her soul and the soul screaming while she is calm and dead. I also think i'm going to take your suggestion of keeping them in the mirror but not showing them in real life, I'll just have to design the room where you will be able to see a lot in the mirrors. I'm still not sure what i want the man to be, I like your idea of the chains, but i think i want to use a subtler approach. I'm contemplating the priest idea still, but maybe with his outreached hand he will have a tattoo that says the number of the beast 666, like he was once a priest than he sold his soul, or he is a demon masquerading as a priest. I could further deveope this by showing him with a devilish appearance in the mirror, maybe not a full on devil, just a red aura and maybe some horns or something. I think I'll most likely do this, but i'm not sure if i want ot make it a priest. It could easily be a cop, a coronor, a plumber, etc... What do you think? I think my main goal for this image is you see a guy grabbing a girls soul, then if you look for a second or two longer you see all the stuff going on in the mirror.

Climax- Thanks for the compliment! I hope i don't dissapoint :)


03 March 2005, 01:26 AM
hey man, I like the preist idea..

I was thinking for color scheme, you could have everything very desaturated (almost black and white) while keeping the soul a blue "glowish" color and having the preists eyes redish? and perhaps that tatoo could be red too, just to further enhance the "evilness" to him...

also in the mirror you could then show a bunch of souls as blue as well..

that would definatly make the eye focus on the color you know.. get the people to see exactly what they are suppose to see, then later on let the eyes wander..

another idea is you can have the girls soul a reall vibrant blue or dark blue glow color then the other "older" souls would be lesser blue.. the idea being that the fresher the soul the more "life" it has, and the reason this guy has to keep collecting souls because the other ones "wear out" after awhile or what not..

so like the oldest soul would almost be black or grey you know?

anyways just some ideas that were floating around.

This will definatly rock man!

03 March 2005, 01:56 AM
Great new concept, Shaykai; the main character fits much better into the "Master" role, I think. The idea of the character being a priest fits nicely, as the theme is dealing with the souls of dead who killed themselves (especially considering the Church's view of those who commit suicide). Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

03 March 2005, 03:20 AM
u got nice ideas... i want to c them visualized, so let us c some more conceptual arts... but so far the concept looks really good... this is gonna b one hell of a party... keep rockin man!! and wish u all the best :deal: :thumbsup: :bounce:

03 March 2005, 03:40 PM
Geta-Ve - Fantastic suggestions! I should e-mail you whenever i have a problem coming up with ideas! I think I will use the blueish color scheme you mentioned with a few parts being highlighted in red. I also like the idea of souls being new and bright blue and the other ones being darker, you must have read my mind because i was picturing something like this, but i hadn't thought of making the older souls darker :) Great idea!

ArtisticVisions - I think you've convinvced me, the master guy will be a priest :) You are right that it fits in with the catholic churches view on the subject of suicide, thats kind of what pushed me to choose ot make him a priest. :) thanks for the compliments (although i know my drawing skills aren't very good at all lol i'm glad you could kind of tell what i was drawing)

overcontrast - Thanks! This weekend i'll do some pre-vis stuff as well as some hardcore modeling. Should have some crazy updates on monday so be sure to check!

Thanks everyone! You guys are really motivating me to work hard on this!


03 March 2005, 03:49 PM
:bounce: Modeling Time!

Hey man just have fun with it, get your ideas down and enjoy yourself. We all want to keep each other going...tis only the beginning my friend.

03 March 2005, 12:39 AM
:bounce: Modeling Time!

Hey man just have fun with it, get your ideas down and enjoy yourself. We all want to keep each other going...tis only the beginning my friend.


just wait till texturing comes.... uvmapping.. lighting.. rendering.. im scared now.. lol

03 March 2005, 11:09 AM
Yeah, thats why Im trying to blaze through modeling because texturing is where Im hoping to improve on during the this contest. That if anything will be my achilles heel and I plan on resolving that weakness during this contest. :twisted:

Good luck my friend were all going to need it.

03 March 2005, 05:02 AM
hello, i always like dark and gore artwork, goodluck for the final :)

03 March 2005, 03:30 AM
ha evil little soup you're cooking! Like that a lot! :twisted:
keep it up looking forward to your next step!

03 March 2005, 02:33 PM
I had hoped to post an update today, but I had to work at the office this weekend since I didn't get some stuff finished that i needed to do. I worked a bit on the asian ghost, and she is looking better. I'll update tomorrow for sure, thanks everyone for your support!


03 March 2005, 10:46 PM
yay I cant wait! :bounce:

04 April 2005, 10:52 PM
I know what it's like working that day gig and trying to come home and do this too, it can be a "Female Dog" lol. But hang in there man, just do a little bit each day...even if its only a half hours worth because even a little bit at a time adds up to something.

Looking forward to seeing you back out here :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 11:07 PM
Hey guys! I really apologize for not updating and not keeping up with everyones threads, Kinda big projects at work so the only thing i've been doing at home is sleeping. This weekend i'm hoping ot catch up on all your threads and update my thread as well.


04 April 2005, 10:42 PM
Thats unfortunate man, hope things go well for you :)

04 April 2005, 07:05 AM (

I know i probably lost a lot of people since i didn't update for a while, but if you all could give me a critique i would really appreciate it. I started her skirt and her hand, but her hand is looking a littler weird. Any critiques? Thanks!



04 April 2005, 08:44 AM
I think the chest looks a bit weird, maybe the breasts are taking up too much room on the chest for small breast:shrug: . Ugh, hands, I hate modeling them; I think the hand needs more volume to it, the thumbs shouldn't be 90 deg to the other fingers, more so at 45 deg, and I think the viens on the back of the hand shouldnt protrude as much (believe it or not, theres a big vien on the back of each finger, people think its bone for some reason, there's also tendons that seem like bone when the hand flexes back; just some info about the hand so that it might help when creating the hand, i still can't model bodies with all the anatomy I know:p :argh: ).

04 April 2005, 08:00 PM
ace4016 - Hmm... i'm not sure how to fix the chest really. It doesn't look that weird to me, but i've been looking at it for hours so i probably can't tell that its weird anymore. Is there anything specific you can point out that i could change? You said its taking up too much room? hmm... I guess if i don't get them perfect it will be OK since she will be wearing a shirt and stuff, but i'd like to get them as perfect as possible.

I"ll hopefully finish the hands today, by the way thats some interesting info you gave me about the hands! I had no idea that thing was a vein, but i think i can push it around so it must be a vein instead of a bone :)

Also does anyone have any good links to modeling Hair tutorials? I'm sure i can find some if no one has any links handy, but I'd love to find a great tutorial that people have learned from. Once again, i apologize about the lack of updates, i hope to be updating every day from now on!


04 April 2005, 08:43 PM
With the breast, I think they are spread out a bit. Also the breast fat starts too high and the top is too wide I think, but I'm not sure. There's plenty of "refrences" for breast, mayeb take a look at those. And for the hair modeling tutorial:

I did it, but I am having a bit of trouble with the materials since I use max instead of lightwave. And it take a bit of practice to get it right, I think I have to do it over; it's worth a try.

04 April 2005, 04:27 AM (

Well I did a quick composition of what the final scene should look like. Turns out its going to be really easy to make the ghosts only show up in reflections. What does everyone think?

Oh yeah, ignore the lighting right now, its really bad. I really suck at lighting though... that took me like 10 minutes to do the lighting. :(

I guess i shuold explain the scene a bit more, he is going to be holding a neckless and he is going to be obviously looking at her 'soul' (the blue portion of her coming out.) In the mirror he is also going to look a little different, i played with the idea of devil horns and stuff, but that looks a little weird. I'm also having trouble getting my material to look like a mirror. Any ideas??


04 April 2005, 07:17 AM
well the composition makes clear many things. looks great, lets expect very much. like it a lot :) keep it up mate:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

04 April 2005, 07:44 AM
I'm also having trouble getting my material to look like a mirror. Any ideas??
The basic thing for mirror materials is to switch of all material channels except reflection (that is, no diffuse colour or anything, just plain reflection) When you've got that working, you can play a little with some subtle fresnel for the reflection, and very small diffuse values (for instance a texture with some smudges and fingerprints on)

04 April 2005, 03:50 PM
Angel - I'm glad that I could finally clear up some of the things i've been talking about in this thread. I think this is going to be a fantastic piece when all is said and done! Thanks for commenting again even though i failed to post for like 2 weeks! I'm really hoping to work on it every day and posting every day from now on!

James -Ah thanks! I will definitely do that :)

04 April 2005, 01:29 AM
hmmmm, another thought, have the camera more of on a side top view ish focusing more on the girls hand/spirit hand. have maybe half of the preist dude standing in the frame and have water all over the floor reflecting everything (water will act like your mirror)

that way you can still see all of the preist and even the other souls!

or something like that..

Anyways, keep us updated man!

04 April 2005, 01:42 AM
Damn Get-va! Brilliant!!! I love the idea of water being on the floor adding to the reflectiveness! I'll upload a picture right now of my current (slow) progress.


04 April 2005, 01:52 AM (

Well here is my slow progress. I fixed the hands as much as I could and I added some wind to the dress and a bra and hair. I'm not sure if the hair looks OK, i could use some critiques on improving it. I'm totally slammed with work so I think I'm going to have to cut down the quality on some of the models if I intend to finish this project in the tiem allotted (which I do). Comments and critiques very welcome!

04 April 2005, 10:14 AM
Nice modeling man, very sensitive topic, suicide is a shocking concept.
I really like the the ghosting idea, I had myself in mind to use such technic to leave marks of the past and anticipation of the very near future, but it's a tricy thing to do on a still.

Even with the trail it wasn't obvious, Master (left) attacked the servant (who's more of an apprentice) but the apprentice who turns out to be more skilled than the master disappear under the sword attack and in a fast fly through the scene appears in the back of the master to attack him... but... even though the master wasn't so fast, his anticipation skills are greater as he prepares an attack with his left hand which the apprentice didn't see.
Well the whole thing implied lots of motion blur at compositing making the whole thing way too blurry, so I gave up with that. But I'm pretty sure Ghosting charcter would work very nice in your set up as the laps of time is much wider, I'm very curious to see what you gonna come up with. Do you recall that love scene in "fight club"... are you thinking about such effects ? Anyway, good luck ot you !


04 April 2005, 03:45 PM
Adriano - I don't recall the love scene in fight club but i haven't seen it in a while, I'll have to rent it again this weekend and look for that scene. I know what you mean, its very hard to tell a good story with one image!!! I had to cut down my story a lot for it to be told with one picture.

I"ll be watching your Master/servant entry adriano :) You have a great website as well!


04 April 2005, 04:52 AM
Hey man Im liking the girl so far, but just a few things, her fingers look too long.. at least from that view.

and I would say.. if you want a bigger impact you gotta think about what clothes you .. or someone that is suicidel would kill themselves in..

Like first you have to think why they are in the bath in the first place, are they there BECAUSE they are killing themselves, or was it spur of the moment thing.. did she drown herself or did she slit her wrists?

if someone is serious about killing themselves they will do it right the first time and wrap their head with a plastic bag while drowning themselves, however if they are slitting their wrists, at least imo, they are only doing it in the bath tub because it will probably hurt less? or theres the chance they could be saved..

however maybe she was feeling really down having a bath and shaving her legs and one thought lead to another and so she pulled out the razor in the shaver and slit her wrists (i think HOW she kills herself should be very evident and clear to the viewer) so thus if she IS bathing she would be naked.. however if she was drowning herself she would most likely be wearing heavy clothing.. as to weigh herself down..

imo having her naked and slit her wrists would provide the biggest impact.. sort of no hold bars type thing.

on second thought, how about this, adding to the reflectivity idea, have the mirror smashed, because this is the story

she went to have a bath one night after "something" happened and shes soooo upset that throws something at the mirror thus smashing it into pieces (but leaving some big pieces still on the wall) so now this is making her more angry and sad because she just made a huge mess so one thought leads to another she says "f this im outta here" (while in the tub now) reaches over the side of the tub to grab a shard of the mirror slits her wrist and slowly dies

the scene would look like... water all over the floor (some parts bloody) but the ones not bloddy would be reflecting the souls and such and the shards of mirror on the floor would also be reflecting the souls, as would the big pieces left on the wall, now pretty much the view is how you have it, but i'd say zoom in closer on the hand (wrist) to show she slit her wrist, have the one shard of mirror that she used floating in the water perhaps reflecting the preists face or something.. OH have it reflecting HER soul leaving her body (reflecting the hand soul part)

have the water in the tub all bloody and dark, blood leaking down the side of the tub (inside) from her wrists, and etc etc etc

ok those are all just suggestions.. sorry I think I got carried away... :eek:

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