LC #42 Pipers Alley

View Full Version : Minotaur Muscle rigg

02-21-2005, 02:06 AM
hey folks,

check out comments below for original post as all thats history heres the Update image for Feb 17th 2006

Hi everyone

ok this is my next project that i'm workin on! i have done some intitail designs but its really justs a character Muscle setup excersize using ACT. i'll use ornatrix for hair and simcloth or clothFX for soft bodies! this will be animated. i have abit of muscle sim experiance so well see how good i can get it!

Here are quicklinks updated download content on this post so you don't need to read through the whole post to see the latest.

QUICKLINKS-UPDATED EVERY NEW POST-right click on images to download ( ( [/url] [url=""] (
Hair setup renders I Deformtest2 4.38meg I ( ( (
IMuscle deform 500K IDewlap Test 500k I Muscle deform Turntable 800k

anyway this could take afew months to get going, but i'll keep updating as i go.

here are some basic setups tests and muscle and sketiton modeling.

Here is the initail character design.

02-21-2005, 02:09 AM
here are afew images for the basic muscle deformation and the muscle setup

and here is the basic deformation

02-21-2005, 02:13 AM
here is a quicktime turntable for the basic deformation. at this stage i won't model the mesh properly untill i have all my muscle proportions and movement right.

TurnTable (

enjoy and comments or questions welcome.


02-21-2005, 02:58 AM
that's looking damn fine :)

02-21-2005, 03:16 AM
Looking Killer already Johno, Ive been waiting to see this one kick into gear!!!

02-22-2005, 02:48 AM
Well done john, I can see you put a lot of effort into this model and I know it's gonna be mean mofo of a Minotaur! One thing, I noticed there wasn’t any outside credits....whets the deal yo? I modelled naked for hours just for you, those muscles of mine are prize guns and they should be credited. Cheers mate, I appreciate it!


02-22-2005, 03:11 AM
hi guys thanks for the comments! i'm modeling the face at the moment! and will update soon!



02-22-2005, 02:14 PM
IM quiet impressed with your work.. keep posting your results. and can i just ask what program you are actually using , is it Maya?

Keep up the good work btw... awesome modeling.

02-22-2005, 08:13 PM
hi all!

yes sorry Mr coopers was the model for this beast. particulally the for the head. so i thought Id post what i have so far.

Neeno I'm using 3ds max to do this. i wish i could say it was Maya but my be next project.

Sorry to all those looking for animation. as this is going to be one big work in progress towards one animation i thought it be appropriate to post under Animation.

Any suggestions on the head would be great. I'm still tweaking so Iíll try updating it in the next day! Iím hoping to have the model finished by the end of the week!

This is a cross between a American native buffalo and an Indianan one, Iím trying to make it not to specific.

Still along way to go with the rest so thereís plenty more to come.



02-22-2005, 11:18 PM
looks like its coming along nicely, keep throwing up those updates for us! good luck

02-22-2005, 11:43 PM
I love the broad look you're getting using a buffalo rather than a cow as a base critter, there is some funny geometry around the top of the nostril, any chance of an Isoline? and a bit of a look at the mouth?

also, the cross hatch pattern on the shoulder... could you fix that by changing the orientation of the underlying polygon perhaps?

02-23-2005, 03:34 AM
Alright here is some animation! well Iím just testing a workflow for the Goiter before i finish the model. Still need to do some ears! And tweak the model allot but! it getting there. I plan to do a bit of zbrushing to if i get the chance but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

dewlap movie (

this was done with simcloth. i'll post the isoline maybe tommorrow.

I modeled this dyanamics of myself!



02-23-2005, 04:09 AM
Hey dude,,
really Max.. wow im a Max student... what is the name of the plugin your using for the muscles or are you jsut modeling them..??
sorry bout da questions just really intersted ... and what to follow the thread to see where you go with this project..
Good luck dude and thats an awesome shot you got there... models coming along very nicely...
Keep posting bro...
Nice work :bounce:

02-23-2005, 04:12 AM
The great wobbly Flap of DewLap Jelly under his chin Looks Pretty convincing, but looks as though a softer falloff where it meets the base of the neck would be the go, any chance of having a look at how it reacts with the head nodding aswell ?

As for the Face, Maybe bulk it up around the top of the head and around the horns a bit, I'd imagine that this Beast would be charging at whatever gets in its way head first at full steam it would be the main way he engages an enemy so his skull would be very thick, bulky and broad.

cool work keep it comming!!!

02-25-2005, 09:16 PM
hi all

well didn't get much done in the last few days! but i got the head finalized. also did teeth and tounge and all that to.

here is a hi and low poly animated giff so you acn check out the way it was modeled. about 150k so if your on a phonline might take abit to come up. (

anyway hope you injoy it! i'll try to get the rest finished and do a nice turntable render.



02-27-2005, 02:25 PM
Hey john, amazing design you got here, can't wait to see it finished... it's on its way to be astonishing!

dewlap movie (

this was done with simcloth. i'll post the isoline maybe tommorrow.

I modeled this dyanamics of myself!



You mention Simcloth there, would you please be so kind to share the technic you used there to apply a cloth simulation to a skinned object ? I getting it wrong or is that what your movie shows ?

02-27-2005, 03:41 PM
Can't wait to see the final.

03-08-2005, 03:01 AM
hi everyone, sorry i have neglected this project a little this week because i had to finish off some work.
i have managed to finish most of the mucles setup however i still have to get it all moving properly. then i get onto puting hair on it.

well speaking of hair this is what i had to get finished last week.

Teapot Art (



03-08-2005, 07:28 AM
That's just a little bit creepy :)

Mind you, it could make a really nice wallpaper :)

03-11-2005, 10:18 PM
hi all

yes i did get stuff done this week! although not much to show for it really. i have started the rigg and have muscle moving so here is a little test so you can see what i have done.

not at all near finished but its getting there. i have also got the leg muscles moving properly but thats not as exciting.

anyway any coments let me know. there are afew obvious mesh problems just pretend the not there at the moment! hehe

its about 1.4meg QT so rightclick image and download. (

03-12-2005, 07:26 AM
No Comments there, it sure still is on a good way. Hope you get to spend more time on it this in the coming weeks, busy man you are.


03-14-2005, 02:33 AM
Nice Start Johno, but I'm just wandering how much muscle deformation you will be able to see once you have covered it all with fur.any thoughts on what type of animation you will put this Guy through?

03-16-2005, 11:06 PM
hay man thats for the reply! good point i will probly ony have a small amount of hair like in the design hoever i might have some spread over the torso but more like a hair Man type hair not james bond style though!

i have reconstructed the sholder with a mesh using skinmorph as i have more control over it. hopfully i'll have a small walkcycle once i finish some of the controls. i'm trying to cut down the amount of mucles i have as you dont necicarily see the detail they give.



03-25-2005, 12:56 AM
Hi everyone well i have been busy finaly got the rigg finished and now just ajusting muscles to work all over the body. here is an animation. this is just a small test animation so i can test things like dynamics eg Dewlap, musclel jiggle and hair dynamics. also enamble me to see if the controls where usable.

any coments would be good as i will bake all this in and come up with a good dynamics pipline for more animations.

alleast you can see the controls working here! basic breath controls which will drive the chest muscles. (




03-25-2005, 01:21 AM
that's looking awesome, looking forward to seeing ACT over the top of it :)

04-02-2005, 04:12 AM
ok! well this week was a bundel of joy! moving muscles tweeking muscles and redoing muscles.:D

i was hoping to have the hole skin workin by now but i have decided to rebuild the arms! i having to many problems.

the rest of the body is going realy well except for the odd skining problem whichi will iron out!

here is a small render of the body muscle deformation with the dewlap and floppy ears implimented its come along way since last week.

let me know what you think. i have been stairing at it to long and can't really tell if its to floppy or not. also i have implimented abit of muscle wobble on the pecks if you look closely.

sorry i had to cut the arms off him as they where to distracting while working on the body. and all the deformaion in the back. its ok minotaur arms grow back quickly

anyway check it out and let me know what you think! (

3.4 meg quicktime




04-02-2005, 06:16 AM
looking nice, the ears came out well, perhaps they need just a tad more drag, they feel just a little soft still.

04-04-2005, 07:44 AM
Looking good Johno,I Like the secondary motion and also the animation, even noticed a bit of muscle dynamics on the Pectorals - "sweet",
How've u done that then?? looks nice, keep the updates coming man, cant wait to see the muscle deformation in the back!!

04-05-2005, 08:30 PM
Hi John, while looking through your great minotaur muscle/bone deform work on, I clicked over to your website to look at your other work. I saw the full animation of the Griffon flying through the clouds and said wow what a great job. The thing that hit me was, I am working on a very very similar type scene, with this Demon character I have, flying through clouds. ... here ( So, obvioulsy I have some questions for you if you dont mind! :-)

I know you used 3DS Max for the minotaur, did you use it for the griffon?

I use Lightwave and am starting to do a bit more in Maya.

In my scene I am setting up, the hypervoxels (what lightwave uses for cloud effects) take a LONG time to render high quality, so I rendered an animation of them slightly billowing, and slapped that onto many individual polygons in the sky where the Demon is flying through. This saves render times, but I have to watch out for the2D perspective of the polygons showing up.

Did you use that technique? Did you only use it only for far away clouds? or did you use it for all if you did.

I'd really like to know what you went through to accomplish the end result because it's precicely what I am trying to do.

Thanks very much in advance if you respond!


04-06-2005, 03:32 AM
Hi michael

the griffon was all done in max as well! the way i did the clouds was with afterburn plugin which is pritty spesilized for this sort of thing! i used one of the octain shader which is alot faster and gives you more of a steam look to your volumetrics which is sort of what you get with clouds when you get up close.
there are acutualy 2d layers in the composite that wash out the clouds and even them out also the sun saturation helped to blend these eliments abit to.

i would try to use the technuque you are using but render it in layers! background clouds midground and forground! you should only have to render the forground in hi deatial.

you could also do some elements in hypervoxels too!

in saying this you should be using some sort of compositing package to blend these elements if you arent already.

have alook at this! this will give you abit of an idea how to do it (

anyway hope this helps!



04-06-2005, 12:48 PM
very cool, yea I use After Effects, and do quite a bit of compositing, thanks for pointing out all the details for the exact steps you went through, I will send you a link to where I post my cloud rendition.

04-06-2005, 05:47 PM
keep on updating!

04-11-2005, 06:56 PM
hay everyone well i try to post at the end of every week! however last week was very unproductive. i hope to have abit more sucess this week. so stay tuned.



04-15-2005, 08:59 PM
hi everyone, thanks agian for the posts!

well only had afew days this week (bloody US tax is confussing) :shrug: but better then last weeks effort! i have got the arms/sholders moving but no where nere what i'd like! i need to make some changes next week! so yet again i've posted unpollished work! but hay thats what a WIP is all about right!

any coments on the sholder movment would be great!

by the way there are afew extreme poses for the sholder test that i forgot to trim off so hes not having a spaz attack at the begining. (

does anyones thoughts on entring this project into master and servent challange i started about the same time? can i do that?

cheers :thumbsup:


05-08-2005, 12:57 AM
We've not seen you around in a bit - whats the goss?

I'm moused up again, so I should finish up the Ant in the next few weeks, then, it's onto something to fight the minotaur i think ;) - Muscles and hair, muscles and hair....

Just a friendly prod because I don't want to wait as long as I did for the griffin ;)

05-09-2005, 06:28 AM
the shoulders are great up until he starts kicking his legs. maybe move them up, like a shrugging motion.
Also, his hands need some kind of movement as well, after they hit the ground, it's like they're held in cement blocks

05-14-2005, 11:37 PM
hay man

i have just moved house so and now have no internet untill may 26 :sad: :twisted: . but i do have som more stuff! and i should have a full week next week to do stuff! i have a new proper animation for it and hope to have most of the hair implimented soon. also have some textures to paint. but muscles seem to be doing ok for now.

anyway thanks for the prod! and dont worry this will actually be finish soon. i have free time now.

i total agree with ya Sp3tre its somthing i didn't bother fixing as it was mainly just a dynamics test for it.



05-23-2005, 05:40 PM
hay everyone! yes i'm back online and doing more work. i havent had musch time in the last 3 weeks but here is an image of the hair setup. let me know what you think! i'm not sure about the colours at this stage. i am currently texturing him as i had to wait until all the muscle where working and inplace to determin some of the skin detail.

anyway any comments would be great.



05-24-2005, 12:22 AM
WOW, man the hair is looking great, can't wait to see how it reacts with the skin sliding over the muscles.Did you use a density map? how long did the hair take to set up?

05-24-2005, 05:05 AM
Looking good, however, personally the hair looks a little fine on the back and the top of the head, might do to be a little coarser

05-28-2005, 06:44 PM
thanks guys

yep i will be trying to get the hair lookin right. abit thicker on top would better. i am still trying to get the textures to look right using the SSS metal ray material and rendering the hair in scanline and comping them up in combustion. hofully have a small render don by next week if all goes well.



05-29-2005, 04:08 PM
uuuuu I love it... very nice rigg and fur...
I am sure that it will be great animation


02-17-2006, 06:48 AM
ok folks after about 6 months of sitting on this project and also losing alot of the original muscle setup files i dicided to finish what i had left which was pritty much a point cached mesh and the Hair setup. unfortunatly the muscle sime isn't quite there but its not to bad for the time i have put in. i decide since i still had the animation i'll just render it out as a sequence and be done with it. well in theory that sort of worked but i also ran into afew hair problem but got around them finally with abit of help from Marsel Khadiyev( yes ornatrix guy) thanks Marcel. anyway i finally got afew shots out and am speeding my way to finaly wraping this baby up. here they are. any coments would be great these arnt final comps as i need to rerender afew passes.

any questions or construtive crits welcome



02-19-2006, 11:42 PM
Hey Johnno, lookin good, great to see this finally coming together. Shame about loosing your working files though I bet that hurt!.
Looking forward to seeing it animated I think as it is, it needs a little more contrast.
Does he have any teeth?

04-24-2006, 03:27 PM
Hi all,

yes its all finished here is the final thread for the finshed animation



04-29-2006, 10:37 PM
very cool work! im currently in the process of tryin to learn ACT, i was wondering if you know any good websites that have some tutorials or any videos or something that could help me. i also checked out your site and love the griffin animation cool use fo matte painting for that shot!

05-08-2006, 09:53 PM
Hey Ts_falcon

great to here your going to have a go of ACT the best resorce for ACT is ( they have afew video tutes i beleave. but best thing it to do the tutes and then make a little project for yourself. like do an arm or leg. see how you go with that and then move up the chain. the hardest part is the skinning.

anyway thanks for the comments. i wish this project could have been abit better but hay it came out good. i'm going to do afew more birds in the future.

anyway heres my new thead if your interested in the next project.

all the best



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