View Full Version : KeyPoses for lip-sync

11 November 2004, 11:16 PM
This is just the beggining of my aniamtion. This is going to be in a Character TD reel that I am working on and worked really hard on the facial controls( which is not used yet in this playblast). This is just the key poses that I want to hit. The biggest headache is staging and the camera position in relation to the prison bars. Suggestions and comments would really help me out.


11 November 2004, 12:44 AM
Those are good poses. Would be interesting to see where you go from there.

11 November 2004, 06:56 AM
Nice model!
The biggest headache is staging and the camera position in relation to the prison bars.
You have the bars,... I would make use of them.
If I think about every prison scene I have witnesed in films I would use the start position you have, and then zoom in and have him grab the bars, get him to shake them, stick his head a bit through and adress the audience. I would use a camera angle at about his chin level (30 degs left or right) and shoot upwards to emphasize his great size.

Nice work so far:thumbsup:

11 November 2004, 01:35 PM
Hmmm, don't know about the bar shaking thing. In the dialogue, he starts out subdued and then gets louder. It would seem awkward if he shows aggression before speaking softly. I'm experimenting now with different camera moves and the one that seems to work is a slow pan to the left. Course my instructor is not wanting us to move our cameras unless the scene calls for it. He may just have me leave it out all together. Thanks for the tips.
Oh, the model is not mine. It's by Jeff Unay. The rigging and setup was my doing though.

11 November 2004, 03:08 PM
I don't think he needs to do that really. I think it is pretty strong as it is. He isn't going insane or anything like that. He is just fustrated.

11 November 2004, 07:39 AM
Here is the latest. Just changed the timing a bit and changed the step keys to linear. May give you a better idea of what it will look like.

11 November 2004, 11:08 AM
Looks great. I would hold the arms spread out a while longer. I wasn't sure if you put in holds.

I just used to seeing this stuff with jumpcuts

11 November 2004, 02:25 PM
Yea, your right, it did need a pause in there. Just starting by adding the breaks in there to help with the timing.

11 November 2004, 12:31 AM
Hey Sean,

Not a bad start, but i have a few suggestions. I would start by adjusting your timing when he says i may die in the arena tomarrow, when he says arena, i feel that is when the hand should reach the keypose for the point, and have him hold that pose until he says the word i, in i am a slave . when he says slave is when he should reach his next pose. As of now everything takes the same amount of time to happen, im willing to bet you have pretty much the same spacing between your keyframes. Also when he says what possible difference does it make, it needs to be a lot faster to hit that pose almost twice as fast.

one other suggestion i have is that i would film your self acting out this clip a bunch of times, and really feel the emotion. and film your self with a few different acting choice.

cant wait to see more, I am sure i will see more tomarrow.

good luck with it


11 November 2004, 06:30 AM
This is a good start, it expresses the dialogue very well. The only thing I would change is the finger pointing at the floor when he says "in this cell". It seems like it's over acted, not a very natural pose. Perhaps just relaxing the hand so he's not pointing so much would help.

12 December 2004, 08:00 PM
Hey Derek,
Thanks for the suggestions. Your right about the taping myself thing. That would really help capture the scene. I'm thinking of taking out the the pointing down on the "I may die in this cell" part so that the hold on the "or in the arena tommorow" is more forcefull. Then I can get the "I'm a slave" part faster. Thanks again. See ya around. Sorry the Vinton thing didn't work out. I'm having a hard time trying to make my schedule work. Looking better for Chris though.

Thanks for the tip. As you may have read above, I'll try something different with the pointing and make it more pronounce on the "or in the arena" part.

12 December 2004, 11:04 PM
Here is the change.

Went back and re-did all my key poses. The filming thing really helped. Thanks Derek. Rigging is so much easier than this animating stuff. I think I'll stick with what I'm good at. That aside, how does the poses look? Josh wants the finished piece by next week so he can give suggestions on tweaking it.

So, Derek, after the keyposes are there, you go in and make the keys linear? Then from there you put in all the inbetweens?


12 December 2004, 11:54 PM

Yah animation is not for everyone, you have to be a special person to be an animator.
So sean this is my personal work flow, and you can take or leave what i say. After i have set my final key poses, and final timing and all that looks perfect, and i wont be changing anything i go in and set my keys to linear, and see what it looks like, after that i keep it linear and add in my holding poses, a few inbetweens to get good arcs, aticipations and follow throughs, then i change my curves to stepped and go to a straight ahead animation style, looking at each body part individually, making sure my transitions are good, i have good elastisity in the joints, then i go and tweak the curves a little after all that is done. basically after i am all done with a piece, each control will pretty much have a keyframe on each frame. the reason is i dont want the computer to animate for me, they're my frames and i own them, so i am going to have them do what i want.

hope that makes since and helps, if you need more let me know


12 December 2004, 12:13 AM

set my keys to linear, and see what it looks like, after that i keep it linear and add in my holding poses, a few inbetweens to get good arcs, aticipations and follow throughs, then i change my curves to stepped and go to a straight ahead animation style,

So you go from step to linear back to step? or do you mean clamp then go to the straight ahead stuff? Also, is the change better? To me, it seems to follow the dialogue better.

12 December 2004, 01:00 AM
my bad i ment clamped,
As far as the changes the only thing that bothers me now is how long he holds that pose with his hands on his chest, it may look better when you add in your moving holds though


12 December 2004, 07:21 AM
Here is my latest run. I have the lip sync part in. I need to still fix the part between "...the arena tommorow.....I'm a slave", that transition is a bit fast or jerky or both and needs still some fixing but getting there.


12 December 2004, 07:59 AM
First of all, great model Sean! I can't wait to see what he looks like in the final render (but please do something about the poor guy's crotch..that's just scary). Now, on to the animation:

I think you have some good acting there, and some nice poses to start with, but you really could push things a bit more. Here are a couple of areas that I think could be improved.

1. When he says "Do you not understand?" it would be nice if he seemed a bit more quizzical. A subtle shake of the head may be all it takes. Another may be to give him the old "curious dog" head tilt to one side as he looks toward the offscreen character.

2. When he finishes his first line, he immediately picks his head up, which I think seems a bit too abrupt. Especially considering that his next line "I may DIE in this cell tonight..." is somewhat explosive. IMO, the line would have more emphasis visually if you held his head down until right before he explodes with that line.

3. I think he holds his hands to his chest for way too long during "I am a slave...difference can I make?" There is a long pause between "Slave" and "What" where he's not doing much. That may not be a problem if you at least break up that pose with some heavier breathing or offsetting the hands. IMO, your best bet would be to rid yourself of the twinning in those arms/hands. You need to put some accents in those last two lines, and having the hands where they are is going to prevent that. Some suggestions are using only one hand to touch the chest so the other could be placed on the bars or balled up into a fist that he could use to accent certain words like "slave" or "possible."

4. Back to the accent on "possible." I think you're missing out on an opportunity for some great emotion here. This is the line where the character reveals his vulnerability, and I'm not getting any of that in your animation. I think you need to hit a couple poses in there that show the angst before the despair. The funny thing is, it's probably something really subtle that'll do it. A sigh, a twitch of the head, whatever. Try a couple of different things and see what works.

5. You are aware of the jerkiness between "...the arena tommorow.....I'm a slave", so I'll ignore that for now. However, I'd suggest that part of the problem may stem from the fact that his feet are glued to the floor. Don't be afraid to move his right foot back as he shifts his weight.

Amyway, I hope some that is useful for you. Keep plugging away, this has alot of potential. Cheers.

12 December 2004, 08:45 AM
Looks good!

What frame rate are you using?
Keep the figure continually moving as a static figure does not occure in nature.

Keep em comin.

12 December 2004, 07:35 PM

All great suggestions. I try and incorporate it. The model is not mine. It's by Jeff Unay. Awesome modeler. I setup all the controls and blendshapes. The head tilt in the begginning line might be a nice touch. The fist thing at the end seems a bit too confrontational since he is showing more vulnerability like you said. I'll play with the pause when he goes back and says "I'm a slave" and bring the hands down in a more relaxed position. Then he can bring them back up at the end as anticipation. Really great stuff you gave me. I get really frustrated with animation. I'm a setup guy and by no means think I'm an animator but I know I need to practice to show off the rigs I do.

I have about a week to finish this so I have some time to really work on it.

The frame rate is 24 fps, Kanga.


12 December 2004, 06:54 PM
Here is the latest preview. I know there is still some wierd stuff happening in the middle with the transition between the point and the hands coming back when he says "Im a slave". Still trying to iron it out. I think the end is stronger though.


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