View Full Version : Character Wip - Plant Monster
10 October 2004, 04:23 PM
Hey.. I thought asking you once more for your oppinion after the last 2 models were, well let me call it this way, not worth cgtalk :)
So here we go. This is ought to be a plant monster for my Rpg. Here is the ref pic which shows it in action.
As you can see it hides its teth inside. Im not sure if I can do the same but all I want to do is make giant teths and a long long tounge to hang out of them :) And once it has not spotted you yet, the plant tries to hide by covering up the teths.
Okay so much for my bad english, here is the wip
1,7 k faces so far, aim is about 3-4 k
10 October 2004, 04:42 PM
cool model! will it be used to render sprites? also it would be a good idea to credit the source of the ref pics, in this case Square|Enix. Nice job!
10 October 2004, 04:45 PM
No it is meant to be ingame.
Well sorry about that you are right. :sad:
10 October 2004, 06:33 PM
Is that from secret of mana? i loved that game! Whats the Polycount on that bad boy dieblein? It looks a bit too high for in game., Especially yhe thorns and the leaves. Nice plant tho.
10 October 2004, 12:08 PM
Very nice idea to use this concept, I think the general form of the plant model looks really however I think the leaves could be better they are a bit low resolution at the moment, I feel that you could probably economise on polygons in other areas of the model and increase the poly count on the leaves to provide a more curved surface across the leaf.
Looks great so far though, it will be interesting to see what textures you apply to it.
10 October 2004, 01:17 PM
lovely plant monster here. Good work so far:thumbsup:
As for critique i think you could lose quite some polys by detaching the thorns from the main body segment. After you do so you can get rid of all the connecting polygons.
Also you can lose some polys by reducing the height segments of the flower stem and the leaves. As a rule of thumb: Where you see a straight line with vertices on it you can lose some polys.
Sooo after you get rid of the unnescessary polys what do we do with them? Right on give detail to the beautiful flower head (and fangs).
And your prior works werent CGTalk worthy? I think they were very well done too and they recieved some nice feedback so dont underestimate your work ;)
I'd like to see some more info on your RPG - care to explain a little what you are working on?
10 October 2004, 04:39 PM
Hi guys, thanks for your advice so far! I will update the leaves next
I need that many polygons on the leaves because I want them to wave around like a dogs tail you know everything fluid and thats why I have that many subdivisions.
Heres an update 2,4 k so far
Heres my Rpg
http://returntomana.mods.de I want to start my own Som sequel because Square doenst do any :hmm:
10 October 2004, 04:50 PM
Flower-monster is looking cool! However, I think it is way too high poly - how much screen real estate are you expecting it to take up? if it is going to be about as large as the flower-monsters in the original SoM, i think you should be able to use about half (or a quarter) the polys that you are currently without sacrificing any visual or animated detail. The tip about detaching the thorns is a good one too. Do you think you could get away with building the petals out of planes instead of actual volumes?
On a side note, Square actually did make an oustanding sequel to SoM, called Seiken Densetsu III. In Japan, SoM is called Seiken Densetsu II, and Sword of Mana for the GBA (released last year) is a re-make of Seiken Densetsu I, which was called Final Fantasy Adventures for the original Gameboy here in the US...so complicated! Regardless, SD3 is japanese only, but there is a great, freely available translation patch for the ROM (assuming you own the original cartridge of course! ;) ;) I found Sword of Mana to be pretty disappointing as far as story and boss battles go, but the combat and artwork are pretty sweet. SD3 is by far the best of the 4 titles.
10 October 2004, 04:55 PM
now it's really an ugly one :D
i'm really missing the anime style of SoM. also recognized it at your other models.
for example the teeth. the original enemy just have a big solid mouth and the teeth were part of the mouth.
never the less good solid model, but just not my imagine of SoM.
10 October 2004, 04:58 PM
We want the plant to be quite large perhaps up to the players shoulders. And compared to the other monsters the plant is quite low poly and even too low poly for me. I wish Id knew where to put more details in :(
You are right about the sequel but Sd3 didnt have a direct conection to Secret of Mana. I played even the german version (internet translator) but well its just a complete different story. This isnt a sequel. And thats what we want to do.
Squaresoft didnt go into 3d thats basicly the reason. And I always wished to see it in 3d :)
@Mcstyle we arent doing anime work here. What we always said is that we want to go for the Final Fantasy semi realistic gamedesign style and no anime/cellshading/cutiness whatever you call it.
I always felt that the way Zelda on the Snes made his way into 3d with Zelda:OoT, that this way would be the perfect way for Som as well :)
10 October 2004, 06:28 PM
I really think you're wasting a ton of polys. You're using far too many in the lengthwise edges of the tongue (unless he's supposed to roll his tongue into a tube. Because that looks really menacing. really.) you can lose a lot of polys from the leaves and still animate them fine, and you need to detach the thorns and remodel the stem withough so many height sections.
Seriously, I think you could shave 1,500 and not notice it at all, and I think you could cut more and still have a fine model.
10 October 2004, 07:16 AM
I agree with ghostscape. You could totally shave off 1500 easily. You don't need X amount of polys to have smooth fluid animation. That will come with the animation and how smooth you can make it. 25k for the plant is high. How many polys would your characters be? I also think that you could get away with texturing the thorns instead of having solid polys.
areas where you can save a ton of polys are :
the leaves,the teeth,the tongue,thorns, and the height of the plant.
Imagine having a level with 10 or more of these plants. you are looking at 25,000 polys right there(at 25k a plant), and thats not including the characters. can you say bog down? if these plants were around 500 polys you can totally populate your enviroment at a low cost.
anyways enough out of me. later.:thumbsup:
10 October 2004, 10:04 AM
I appreciate your comments but I totally contradict you. The leaves only make a about 400 faces total and even If I did reduce it would only make perhaps 200 faces. And I dont want to risk any limitation when it comes to riging.
And as to the dorns, yes I could detatch them. Yes I could detatch the leaves as well. But thats first of all not professional to detatch elements and just slide them inside of each other and why isnt it professional? Because once you animate it, this element seems to not rotate properly with the element it sticks together with.
And you kinda confuse me @DTRAN, the plant has got 2,4k not 25k faces. And besides to that we only want about 4 enemies at the same time and keeping in mind that most of the enemies have 5-6k faces the plant is very very low.
btw I edited the tounge already yes because there I could save some faces indeed ;)
10 October 2004, 05:39 PM
dood, if my art director here at Relic knew i was modeling a single leaf at 400 ploys, i'd prolly be let go. You don't need a a ton of polys to rig.....especially not 400 for a leaf. Anyways i was only trying to help. Good luck on your game.
10 October 2004, 06:38 PM
I believe that's 400 polys for ALL the leaves. And there are ways to detach objects and still have them deform correctly with the base object. Identical Weights, for one. Anyhow, I wouldn't term detaching objects as "Unprofessional" it's simply a method to reduce polycout and get the object under-budget. (Also greatly helps when tri-stripping comes into play) If that's not a concern, then fine - no problem. As for the model itself - looks awesome, dude. I can't wait to see the textures.
10 October 2004, 12:20 AM
I never thought about this method so dont feel offended its just that I never learned it the other way round.
I mean I could have done the dornes more easily this way so why would I trouble myself in morphing each dorne out of the plant so I thought Id do the right thing. :hmm:
Thanks for your comments guys
10 October 2004, 10:12 AM
Cant wait to see its animation, You should also give him a normal map pass :)
10 October 2004, 10:34 AM
Love the concept for this guy... Very Cool! Though as mentioned before, I'm a little hesitant about the number of faces in the leaves and tongue... Seems a little excessive. It's been pounded into me over and over that in game-modelling, Less = More... And just by looking at the picture, I can see ways that these elements could be simplified, and still achieve the same effect when animation.
Also, the thorns on the stalk:
You could probably save some geometry by simply modelling the thorns as 3 faced cones, and simply have them clip through the stalk. I know it's not necessarily tidy to look at, especially via a wireframe, but it still achieves the same effect for fewer faces.
EDIT: Ok, I see that's already been mentioned via "Detaching" those elements. Now, you mentioned that you think this is unprofessional... and I'm entirely sure why. As long as you do a good job rigging the character, you shouldn't notice any difference at all. Besides, having taken apart a couple game models that have been used in commercial games, I can tell you right now that professionals do it all the time. :)
But anyways, this is methodoloy more than anything else. Aesthetically, I think the model itself is marvelous! :thumbsup:
10 October 2004, 12:20 AM
Here is the final render
Thanks for all your comments guys, Ill keep thinking about this method when it comes to the next models. Im quite not sure wether Ill post them here as well.. I guess like I said it must be something challenging. I dont like posting simple things here.
Cgtalk is just too good for that. And otherwise you wont see my sweating tears being unable to do certain shapes hehe so its gonna be more funny for you to watch. So lets wait for the next challenging one
10 October 2004, 02:11 AM
this must be the sexy'est yet deadly flower i have ever seen in a game :)
very nice modeling/texturing, love it, great job !
11 November 2004, 11:44 AM
There is one thing I would have done diffrent, that is to make the mouthflesh one smoothgroup, now it looks to rocklike, its organic right?, same goes for the tongue
11 November 2004, 07:36 PM
first of all I like the style you gave this thing...my only real crit would be to make it look a hair more "solid." I know that since it's a plant everything is "leafy" and seperate, but I think that the mouth part being very fleshy and 3-D doesn't work so well with the flat petals. Overall very cool conversion though!
Someone early on in this thread mentioned sprite-rendering...I am wondering how this would be accomplished?
01 January 2006, 05:00 PM
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