View Full Version : Frequent, Repeatable CTD in Painter IX

Ben Sones
10 October 2004, 05:10 PM
Is anyone else seeing this in the Painter IX demo?:

Working on a layer in a largish (3200x2100) canvas, I get a repeatable crash-to-desktop every time I try to paint with a large brush (currently, I'm using the Wet Acrylic 30) and my stroke goes off the edge of the canvas. I'm working zoomed out to about 25%, trying to block in some color in a landscape. But if I let the brush stroke go off the edge of the canvas (which is sort of necessary in order to paint to the edges of the canvas), boom! Painter vanishes. No error message, no nothing--it's just gone. It's happened about 15 times in the last twenty minutes, and I can repeat the crash at will.

I have a fast machine (Athlon 64 3200, Radeon 9800 Pro) with a decent amount of RAM (1 GB). Painter aside, my system is very stable. According to my memory monitoring software, Painter is only using about 500MB of my RAM with this image open. So it could be some sort of memory issue, but I suspect it's just a bug.

Anyone else seeing this, or have a workaround? It's making it really tough to work, and making me reconsider my decision to buy Painter IX...

10 October 2004, 09:30 PM
Read the Sticky threads at the top of this forum, particularly the link named:

Keeping Painter 6, Painter 7, and Painter 8 Running Smoothly

Though that was not written for Painter IX and the Painter IX Pre-built Brush File has an automatic maximum file size limit of 200 MB, there may be other suggestions that will apply.

Also, send your message, including your complete system specs and any other details you think might help directly to Corel Painter Program Manager Rick Champagne at:

Ben Sones
10 October 2004, 09:59 PM
Thanks, Jin! I had checked the tips in that thread already (I probably should have mentioned that); I have Undo set to 16 and scripts set to save for 1 day. I can't for the life of me even find a "Pre-built Brush File," though... maybe it's called something different in Painter IX? The only files in my /Brushes folder are JPGs (the brush icons that Painter uses in the drop-down box) and folders for each brush category. The largest file in any of my Painter folders/subfolders is called "Painter.NZL," and it is ~80MB.

Thanks for the tip on contacting Rick--I'll send him an email and see if he has any suggestions.

10 October 2004, 10:45 PM

The Pre-built Brush File for Painter IX is in your User folders, along with other files written to by Painter IX that contain user specific information.

If you don't know where your User folders are, do a search for Pre-built Brush File.

Again, it has a maximum file size limit of 200 MB so the idea is that you don't need to delete it.

We haven't used Painter IX long enough to find out how that works on various systems, but if it does work well, it'll save us a lot of time because we won't have to delete it.

Ben Sones
10 October 2004, 01:01 PM
Update: I think that I may have found the problem--it's possible that the RIFF file may be corrupted. I tried just about everything else (including deleting the Pre-built brush file), and I was still crashing out. On a whim, I tried opening the file in question and then saving it as a PSD. I loaded that up and tried trailing some Acrylic brush strokes off the page, and it doesn't crash. Weird. The RIFF version of the exact same file still crashes Painter with 100% repeatability when you use the Acrylic brushes and trail a stroke off the canvas.

I noticed that there's another thread on corrupted RIFFs, so maybe this is a bug in Painter IX. So here's a question--is there any downside to saving your work in PSD format? Is there any Painter-specific picture data that a PSD file won't preserve? I assume that there must be (which is why saving the file as a PSD stopped the crashing--presumably, the PSD doesn't contain the corrupted data), but since I'm relatively new to Painter, I'm not sure what it might be.

10 October 2004, 12:41 AM
I've been crash testing moving vector art from photoshop to painter and back... with the idea of using a complex shape created with illustrator copied to a PSD When the psd is opened back up in painter, after being opened in photoshop the paths become rasterized with a message that painter can't recognize the layer.

Align on path, is great by the way.


10 October 2004, 07:39 AM
Hi Ben,

Yes, there's a lot of Painter specific information that Photoshop can't understand. Here are some examples:

Water Color Layers (will become Default Layers and will no longer work with Water Color variants)

Liquid Ink Layers (will become Default Layers and no longer dynamically editable... allow us to adjust Amount and Threshold sliders to control paint volume and bristle density)

Dynamic Plugin Layers (will become Default Layers and no longer dynamically editable)

Text Layers (will become Default Layers and no longer dynamically editable - they also cannot be converted to Shapes, then edited with Painter's Shape editing tools)

Digital Watercolor on either the Canvas or a Layer (will become dry and no longer workable as wet paint)

Painter IX Composite Methods may be different from, or not exist in, Photoshop and may change the intended look of the image. In addition, when the image is opened again in Painter, the original Composite Method will be changed to whatever Photoshop decided it should be.

There are probably other things, but those are enough to make it important to understand the differences between the two programs, then plan accordingly.

I recommend first saving Painter files in RIFF format, using File > Save As, saving frequently, and saving in a numbered series of files. Also save Uncompressed (check the Uncompressed box when saving).

Then save in whatever other format you want. That way, if anything goes wrong you should be able to go back to the last saved (or previously saved) Painter RIFF file version.

Ben Sones
10 October 2004, 01:30 PM
Ah, gotcha. I've been using the iterative save a lot (nice feature). It sounds like RIFF is the way to go while working on an image. I sort of suspected that was the case; my current image doesn't use any particular funky layer compositing aside from a rough sketch on a Gel layer, but even that got converted when I saved the file as a PSD (to a Darken layer, I think), so I guess it's best to wait until the image is complete before saving as PSD (and then flatten or rasterize anything that Photoshop might have problems with).

Thanks for the tips!

10 October 2004, 03:36 PM

i'm surprised that no one has tried to replicate your crash scenario... to see if its p9.oh well. I cant.p8 for me;)

A bit of thread hyjacking here but, what is the purpose of the uncompress tick box option?! All it does is radically increase the file size!!
I dont get it, if the riff has saved with all layers still seperate and in their various composite states, then why have an option to uncompress. - uncompress what?! the file size does change VERY drastically, about 10 fold! If its a programmers (corel) thng to insure(?) stability then you'd think they would just reprogramm the riff format to be inherently more stable in the first place.

it just seems odd, there isnt such an option for photoshop PDS files. - is there? and psd files get saved and opened up with all layers seperate and different, if saved that way.
I'm not asking for riff to be open sourced but just an explaination on why its there?


10 October 2004, 12:35 PM

I can't tell you why the Uncompressed option is there, but through trial and error we've found in earlier Painter versions that checking the Uncompressed box when saving has helped to prevent corrupted RIFF files.

That may no longer be the case in Painter IX but we haven't used it long enough to know for sure.

There are several other things we've learned to do to help prevent corrupted RIFF files and they're listed the the Sticky thread thread named:

Keeping Painter 6, Painter 7, and Painter 8 Running Smoothly

I hope we'll find over time that most of these precautions are no longer necessary, but we can only hope at this point.

Overall, Painter IX is more stable, faster, and there are other improvements and new additions that make it nicer to use.

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