View Full Version : Character: Clown - C&C

08 August 2004, 02:24 PM
I would appreciate C&C of the character. Concept, modelling, texturing, character. How can I improve the character?

Maya 5.0
Photoshop 5.5

09 September 2004, 10:48 PM
I think that you've got a really nice character going there, I really love the concept- my only comment is that the fabrics seem impossibly thin, I think that they should have a little thickness to them- usually fabrics are folded over and sewn together to stop the bits from fraying at the ends, so they should even be thicker then a single piece of fabric would be...


09 September 2004, 09:25 AM
sinecurist, thank you for the comments. I couldn't agree with you more on the thickness and naturually most clothing do have the material folded back once or twice at the edges. The problem is that I don't know how to get an actual thickness of Cloth, how it actually looks thicker in the rendering. If I could get the cloth to look thicker then that would also solve the problem of the folds at the edges. You woudn't make an actual fold as the the panels/garments has to be planar.

If anyone does know how to get Maya Cloth look thicker in the rendering, please let me know, if it's at all possible.

Thank you.

09 September 2004, 02:28 PM
clown amputee..

i lvoe the textures. the nose stands out a bit too much - it's just blaringly red while everything else is kinda dull. i would redo the feet if i were you but I don't know if you just haven't added detail to them yet or not.

09 September 2004, 02:32 PM
Too be honest, I'm not all that experienced in Maya (still learning), so I'm going to bow to the book Maya Unlimited Features (part of the Learning Maya 6 set of books)- which goes into cloth usage in Maya quite extensively- so here's a quote from that book-

"With cloth, garments can very often look as if they are made out of paper. If you are lucky, you can avoid close-ups or camera angles that will make this more visible. You may also be able to diguise this lack of thickness with shader and/or light assignment. Another possibility is blur in the form of depth of field or motion blur if you have the rendering resources available.

"If none of these techniques will work for you, you will have to double up surfaces to create thickness. This creates more work for the solver and slows down the simulation so it should only be done when absolutely necessary."

The book then goes on to show a pattern for a shirt that has doubled up pieces for the collar. It also warns that the artist should make sure not to have interpenetrating surfaces. A page later, the book says that you should use the "thickness property" to push the doubled up surfaces apart except at the edges where they are sewn together.

I hope this helps you out. I do recomend the book very highly - I'm only working my way through it right now, but I've learned a lot already.


09 September 2004, 11:34 AM
Sinecurist, thanks for your comments. I know which book you mean, but I haven't updated to version 6 yet. It seems they give more info in the v.6 book than in the v.5. I was wondering about the thickness of the cloth and wasn't sure how to get it as making double panels leads to some interpenetration even if you do put some thickness to the cloth, but I have done that now. And the result is much better I think. I would have liked to have a higher resolution, but there is something called RAM...

tempest, the nose was supposed to be new, I wanted it to be red, but now I have dulled it a little and made it darker. The feet are finished I thought.... Thanks for your comments!

09 September 2004, 04:53 AM
reminds me of Crusty the Clown from the Simpsons.. anyways, i thing his shirt/cloths is a little too clean for him.. maybe add dirts or tear to make it look old and worn out. keep it up!

09 September 2004, 05:31 AM
bmendoza, thanks for your comments. Rusty the clown?? Ok, I sometimes watch the Simpsons, but I've never seen a clown as far as I can remember... will have to look him up. I have dirted and made the cloth paler/yellowish, but clearly not enough, will add some more dirt and maybe desaturate the costume even more. Thanks!

09 September 2004, 02:50 PM
Have worked some more on the costume. Changed shader among other things - from Lambert to Ramp. The costume should now be dirtier (not much though) and paler. Have moved a few vertices as well on the cloth.

Is this an improvement? Comments please! Other improvements?

09 September 2004, 03:39 PM
Overall, I like it very much. Nice mood. Although I think perhaps a more rustic background or some interesting cast shadows would add more to the mood of the piece. Light coming in through an old window or such. Perhaps putting the doll on some old wood or something. I'm not sure about the shoe texture. I like the bump map/texture on the clothes, but i'm not sure about the specularity on his clothes. Is his clown costume plastic or cloth? The specular highlights and the way his collar folds makes it look like plastic. If it's cloth, it needs a few loose threads or a tear. Maybe the hair looks too neat. Good job roughing up the model. Again, overall I like what you've done here. :thumbsup:

09 September 2004, 09:11 AM
I like it. I have one comment. The fabric on the clothes make it looks like it is rubber. I think it is not an improvement. I like the second wip most.

09 September 2004, 01:15 PM
ANother change... Just read your post Hawver, thanks, and have gone back to a bumpmap similar to the second WIP.

I have also made some changes to the hair (fur). Less saturated, a little wilder.

Added a few thin threads, you can see them if you look closely.

Rendered the cloth with the software renderer, to get a softer look.

Also turned down the specular level.

Thanks webhead and HawVer for your comments!

At the moment I am only looking for comments for the character, as there is no real scene. I haven't added the character to the environment that I have in mind for it. At the moment I am mostly interested in the character. Although I don't mind comments about the background, only it's not been built yet ;-) There's a few other things I want to do first.

Comments and Critiques still very welcome for my character!

Forgot to say... The material is cotton (well supposed to be) and I imagine the clown to be about 40 cm (16"?) in height, so the material would be quite thick and stiff for a character of this small size.

09 September 2004, 03:40 PM
The soft clothing looks really cool! What is the idea behind the shoes? You should improve them. Especially the dirt areas. Hope u understand my english. :scream:

09 September 2004, 07:08 PM
HawVer, thanks for your comments! Glad you like the costume!

But is does seem as if I have to change his feet, I'll probably have to put some doll shoes on him.

The idea about the shoes and my clown is that he is an old, wooden doll. Feet, hands and head are made from wood and the rest have a soft filling. The "dirt" on his feet are the wood showing through the paint... At least that's what I wanted...

From the beginning I thought I would make the whole doll out of material (cloth, not Maya cloth, but "real" cloth).

Any more comments?

09 September 2004, 09:45 PM
Ok. I understand the idea. The dirt on the feets looks like it is some coating around it wich is used over and over.. So it looks like it has two materials. A sort kind of coating and a material under it wich you can see through the upper material.
But painting don't act like that. You worked it out in the face quite well! I goes off the surface by parts. Whe should call it in dutch schilfers. But i don't know how to say it in english. I hope you understand me! :scream:


/edit.. I found the right word.. Its a flake! So it goes off the surface as a flake.

09 September 2004, 08:47 AM
HawVer, yes I understand what you mean, and at one time I had made the wood show through as if the paint was flaking, but I didn't like it that way on the feet/shoes. So I tried to make it look as if the paint had been worn off, the way watersolubable paint gets worn off when wiped a lot, with a wet cloth or rubbed off. But you're absolutely right, the paint really should be flaking.

But I've decided to make some shoes for my clown instead...

Thanks very much for your help and comments, so far, HawVer!

09 September 2004, 09:52 AM
HawVer, yes I understand what you mean, and at one time I had made the wood show through as if the paint was flaking, but I didn't like it that way on the feet/shoes. So I tried to make it look as if the paint had been worn off, the way watersolubable paint gets worn off when wiped a lot, with a wet cloth or rubbed off. But you're absolutely right, the paint really should be flaking.

But I've decided to make some shoes for my clown instead...

Thanks very much for your help and comments, so far, HawVer! Ok! Thats a good solution! I'm looking forward.

10 October 2004, 01:03 PM
I like it. It looks very cg though, but the mood is clear and well done.

10 October 2004, 08:03 PM
Thanks Jinian, for your comment. I don't mind it looking cg, I haven't strived for a photorealistic look. But I am glad for your comment, it makes me realize that maybe it's not as clear to others as it is to me what I want to portray.

I thought I would post a new image with the clown shoes added. There still is no proper background, that will have to wait a little while.

Maark Karraen
10 October 2004, 11:46 PM
Very nice texturing, really pulls the image together, is he going to be animated? The one crit I have is that the shirt has no bright spots, where as the face does. There are pieces of the face that are less grimed and broken, I think the shirt should match that and have a space or two that are alittle brighter.
Great style though, CG looking or no its great.

Maark Karraen
10 October 2004, 11:48 PM
Oh one more thing, the hair needs a bit of dimension (It seems to have very little in terms of a shadow.) It is a plugin or polygonal? It looks like Sas-Lite in Lightwave.

10 October 2004, 04:06 PM
Nice shoes! This is just great! at this point there is so little to say.. except good work!

10 October 2004, 06:18 PM
Great job, i do agree with one of the other replies on the clothing looking too think. what i thought could use some improvements on, is the paint on the face, for being a little worn down and abused toy, the paint that is still on the face looks pretty new. i would suggest fading out the color or something to give it the worn down look.

10 October 2004, 12:14 PM
Thanks for your comments all....

The hair is Maya Fur. You're right about the hair, Maark Karraen, I will move or add lights for the hair to get better shadowing in the hair roots, I think the lights aren't placed right. The clown is rigged and could be animated, but I'll have to upgrade my computer for that.... or buy a new one.

I have noticed that I am very careful with adding dirt, I have desaturated the colours of the face and dirtied it quite a bit... or so I thought, I think I might add some more dirt to his face, you do have to look carefully to see the dirt on his face.

The costume, I imagine, has been bleached from the sun (colours faded and the white is yellowish), and is a little lighter in colour and brighter under the collor and in the places where the arms and body are closer together. I'll have to think about making changes to the costume.

Comments are always welcome!

10 October 2004, 12:04 AM
It slowly becoming more photorealistic and better each post. That shoe texture looks great and nice lighted. I think you need to work more on how the hair attaches to the doll's head. It looks kind of flat right now, perhaps some shadow work or painting the sides of the head darker orange or something. A background would certainly clarify the lighting in this piece and will help you establish the mood more, turning it into a great piece.

10 October 2004, 12:16 AM
Oh yeah, one more thing..... Since you haven't decided on a background yet, why not back light the model. Maybe put some translucency on the shirt and making the doll's left hair shine like its been backlit would be cool. It will also bring some bright spots on the shirt giving the character more depth.

10 October 2004, 05:55 AM
Thanks Jinian for your comments and good suggestions.

I have one light behind the clown on the right side, I'll put another on the left side for the hair. I'll try some more backlighting and translucency on the costume, and see how I like it. But I have an idea about the environment. And then the lighting set-up will be different. These lights are temporary for showing the clown.

You're right about the hair, I will change the positions of the lights (for the hair) and add one or two, and maybe change the settings for the Fur shadows. I'll also test to paint the baldnessmap, so that the hair comes a little further to the front of the face. It's really the shape of his face and the head-on-shot, that makes the hair look not properly attached. I also have different renderings for the hair and the face.

I think I'll have to start to get to work on the background as well, but there are other things that I want and need to do as well.... I need more hours in the day!

Thanks again Jinian!

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