View Full Version : planar mapping
08 August 2002, 01:00 AM
okay, here's the problem.
I'm trying to give bob here a skin, and having read some threads here I thought planar mapping was the way to fix it. But as you can see, it's not really working.
So now what? this model has about 8 maps now and it streches and gives seems everywhere.... never thought texturing with uv would be such a burden... could someone give some hints or tips.. cause I'm lost here
08 August 2002, 01:07 AM
yeah and here's more of that planar map horror.
As you can see the problem lies mainly in the folds I modelled....
how can I overcome the stretching there?
and how can I put 8 maps together without seems...
'cause I would also like to crate a nice bumb for his skin, but I don't think that with planar mapping I would ever get a continuous bumb map.
any help would be much appreciated.:hmm:
08 August 2002, 02:42 AM
Hi there. So here you have a polygon model with texture streching. The reason for this usually is that you mapped the model and collapsed the mapping coordinates on it and then made severe modeling ajustments. Or maybe some flipped faces even ore some faces who arent in the mapping coordinates that youve set-up. For an organic model, you often need to isolate piece per piece and give material coordinates to each pieces. I usualy split the mesh in several selection group that are more or less cylindrical and unwrap each part to get total control, I then use a planar mapping on top of the unwrap.
Hope this helps. If you want more 'in detail' help you could tell me what your mapping set-up is and what prog your using, and a screen grab of the mesh could help.
Hope this was some help to ya.
P.S. That outch section really looks like a part that isn't in the mapping coordinates so it's just badly tilling in there.
08 August 2002, 10:09 AM
Thanks for replying so fast..
here's a set up for the planar maps, I know it looks like pyjama's, anyway, each color is a map, except the grey parts.
the problem is keeping the scale of the different maps under control.
the uv mapper doesn't make smaller maps for smaller parts...
so you have to guess the scale?
08 August 2002, 10:21 AM
The solution for this is actually quite simple :)
What you need to do is edit your UVs ;) You see where you are getting stretching? Just go to your UV viewport, and where that stretching is happening, all you have to do us move the points closer together. This almost always happens in UVs.
When it unwraps, you often get slight stretching in the UVs, which need to be rectified.
This usually always happens where there are folds and creases modelled.
It just needs a little bit of tweaking the actual UVs to fix it :D
08 August 2002, 10:36 AM
thank's for your reaction. I actually found out about that last night..
been pulling some points in the uv and there it was... ( the ouch! section )
I've been reading your tut here on the forum. thank's for that. but now I'm in planar map trouble...
Still worried about the seems and the directional/scale difference in the maps.
08 August 2002, 10:46 AM
Yeah, unfortunately, there is no easy fix for seams, I'm afraid :sad: They are an absolute menace, and it takes a lot of careful work to avoid them...
The same goes for scale. I usually tend to try and work around this by editing my UVs so that the proportions of the polys remain fairly even from unwrap to unwrap. Obviously, there is no way to do this 100% perfectly though, and requires a lot of blood, sweat and tears :cry:
08 August 2002, 11:03 AM
now that is fast!
blood sweat and beer... that's right.
Do you know if there's an example on this forum of any planar map setup for an organic model? (with folds and creases?) seeing a setup would help a lot.
08 August 2002, 11:27 AM
I can't think of any examples of that in the forum...
Perhaps we can turn yours into an example? ;)
Post your UVs and images here, and let's see if we can sort this all out... Turn it into a tutorial :D
08 August 2002, 11:51 AM
yeah I could do that, though the head and the arms/hands of the model still need some modelling. (without changing the rest of the geometry )
Did he say "some" modeling?.....hehehe.
another con is that I allready have so many maps/surfaces that it would really become a complicated project, not to mention the serverspace it would take.
and with one attachment at the time it would take me a whole day to post the maps..:surprised
pro offcourse is that it would be a great way to learn.:hmm:
08 August 2002, 11:58 AM
DO IT!!! :p
08 August 2002, 12:22 PM
easy... or I'll have to report you to a moderater....:-) :shame:
I'd have to think about it.
since that is aluttov work.
how do I post the maps, images etc...?
08 August 2002, 12:40 PM
Hmmm.... yeah I guess it is a lot of work...
Do you not have server space anywhere where you can upload images?
08 August 2002, 01:01 PM
i'll have to look into that...
do have space but need it for other projects..
could be an idea...
also posted a reply in bezerker 75's thread, cuz that's the sort of bump i want eventually...this bob is great. (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=151705#post151705)
maybe he can give some input on howto?
08 August 2002, 03:35 PM
Ah! I didn't see you had wrinkles in your mesh. I actually have a trick for those guys. Under maya you have realx uv in the uv editer that does it, but I think your under max right?
What I do in max is simple and stupid. I clone my model and then go in edith mesh mode select the parts where the folds are and relax them with the modifier. Then you go place them by hand for them to be in a more logical way. You have to use your gut feeling for this. Then it is that mesh that is unwrapped and textured. You just have to morph it back to the original when done. Hehe. I told my trick :argh:
08 August 2002, 11:19 AM
Don't have any relax option i guess. working in LW.
The trick with endomorph's seems to be popular, cuz I seen it a few times after searching. Still. I don't know how to make morph's!!.
It's just that I'd like to texture my model... and I never thought I had to trough all this trouble... That's why I wonder How bezerker 75 did his bumpmap. see above. I don't see any stretching, seams etc.
me jealous. Tried more than 1 planar uv set up. but still not happy.:hmm: :annoyed: :hmm:
08 August 2002, 01:08 PM
i can understand your prob veeery good huh?! cause i ran into the same probs last night. i also started to texture the character from the BoB challenge. i don't have much experience with uv's so it's kind of pain in the ...:(
i made a lot of selections on my model and unwrapped planar and legs and arms cylindrical. and these damn seams are annoying me pretty much, too. well, the stretching is also a problem but fixed that by pulling the uv's in the right place. i think berzerker's BoB is great but he also has the chance to hide the seams under the harness. :D
08 August 2002, 02:05 PM
well actually there's no seams in bezerkers bob.
check his bumppic without the harnass...:D
08 August 2002, 02:43 PM
Well, I have to say, I don't know LW. Like Leigh said, you must be using a kind of uvw unwrap for polygons witch unwraps your mesh in a texture editor window where you can go in afterwards and edit the unwrapping by moving faces/edges and vertexes. Like I said I don't know lw, but that's how it works under most 3D apps. So well depending on the time saving options you have in LW you will have to edith all by hand. Find the spots that are hiddin and move thoses verts. Thats where the relax uption commes in handy in maya. You can select the moved faces and relax them witch places them in the most symetrical and square way possible. If you do not have that option you'll have to take patience in your hands and do it yourself.
08 August 2002, 04:25 PM
strange, but there have to be seams if it is not a procedural bump.
and that relax option from maya sounds damn great. i wanna have it in my app(cinema 4d), too. it would ease the work with uvs a lot. well i 'm going on trying to achieve a good result here. so on...
08 August 2002, 07:49 PM
Sorry it took so long to reply... I was just busy lately with some freelance work...and haven't read my past challenge thread for a bit....anyway...the bump I used is just a planar map...I just spent alot of time going back and forth between PS and max getting the texture just right...I also use a technique which seems to help alot with linning things up by using the map below...it shows you exactly where you need to place your textures...anyway I do have some seems and a little stretching...I minimise theat by applying less bump in those areas...also the way my harness is designed It covers alot of the areas where that occurs...some would call it cheating...I just call it good planning...anyway I will post a pic of my bump if that would help you...it's really not all that impressive..but if it helps...I will post it later tonight!
08 August 2002, 12:31 AM
here is a small version of my bump.....i rendered out a left viewport image and painted the bump over that....and like I said it was a constant back and forth with photoshop and max till I got it the way I wanted...hope this helps...good luck:thumbsup:
08 August 2002, 06:36 PM
To solve the seam problem i ended up using 3d procedurals All last week i had to convert all those 3d bump procedutrals into 2d textures and remove all the seams. And doing the UV map was a pain in the ars. I had the same problem with wrinkles. Ill try and do some posts and pics in the next few hours on how i did it.
08 August 2002, 07:24 PM
ok first was the UV map. It took a while to think about how to cover all the model properly and make it easy to make textures after.
heres how i unwrapped it. Hopefully its not too confusing and you can follow along with the pic.
I marked the areas with the |---| to show the direction of the cylindrical wraps. they were all 180 degrees, the rest were planar. After i had everything in a projection I flipped over the UV that were symetrical to save texture space. The relax function did do A LOT of good. this is a must tool in every program. i cant believe they dont have it in LW? maybe a different name
there were visible seams along where the front head, meets the snout but i had no other way of doing it so ill had to live with it and tried to cover it up with the bump maps
if its hard to understand or you need more explanation of a step tell me ill try and explain it better
08 August 2002, 07:41 PM
Since we all know how much Leigh like procedurals i thought this would be a good time to show people how to move 3d procedurals over to 2d textures ;) And show you how i made an ALMOST seamless bumpmap. This is for all the maya so i dont know how informative this is for LW
3d procedurals are great but the only problem is that you cant animate with them. the texture swims all over the surface when you raise an arm or a leg.
With the UV map put in the proper place and a couple 3d procedurals slapped on, i converted over to 2d by:
selecting the poly object
shift selecting the 3d texture
in hypershader selecting the menu edit -> convert to file texture
in the option box there is the file format, size etc
heres what it created: It though it would have fixed all the seams so i didnt have to touch them but i did have to blur the edges a bit to clear up the 1 or 2 pixels that were missing
08 August 2002, 07:45 PM
yes i KNOW the bumpmap above is very obvious that its a procedural which SUCKS heh so i painted on another layer in PS to add a few more big bumps and make it look more random. So heres what i rendered out today it doesnt look too bad does it?
lol notice the big stretch i have to fix on the shoulder
08 August 2002, 08:15 PM
Thank's alot for replying.
Right now i don't have anytime doing any texturing but soon I'll see if can post anything reasonable.
I wonder if there's a LW relax uv plugin? Leigh?
Up 'till now uv's just get me nervous...:annoyed:
08 August 2002, 10:18 PM
I understand your feelings... ;)
lw uv mapping simply.. well... it doesn't actually suck, but you know.. there are tools missing.
huh?, you can create endomorphs by clicking on the small M on your modeler interface (it's locatet at the right side at the very bottom).
08 August 2002, 10:22 PM
that does look pretty good though! :thumbsup:
but you may add some wrinkles around the eyes and i see some texture stretching in the mouth and on the neck which you could avoid by pulling some uv points around. i'll post my current state of texturing process tomorrow. the only problem i still have are the damn seams. but i don't think that i can avoid them and so i'll just try to cover them. :)
08 August 2002, 10:45 PM
I found out about the Morph technique... it's in the manual..
but the method described in the menithings tut is a real hard one to execute and control. Right now I'm a bit done with it so next week maybe i'll try again.
08 August 2002, 10:58 PM
thx ill add some more wrinkles, there are some there but they are too suttle. The mouth is stretched as far as i want it to go. i can probably fix it by smoothing some of the weighting around. heh i dont want to take over your thread, continue on. ill try and help out where i can
08 August 2002, 05:18 PM
well, very slowly, I think I'm starting to get the picture...
here's a little update.. the is coming on soon.
I thought it would be nice to update for the people trying to help me out.
see it as a wip.
It's all planar maps. first morphed then mapped and then very important: delete the morph maps! Not sure if this the most efficient method though. It's very very time consuming.
I really don't understand why they don't make it a little easier to make fitting uv maps in LW.... More on that maybe later...
anyway here it is
08 August 2002, 01:36 AM
Seems your starting to get the hang of this. For my personnal taste I'd say I really like the round bumps you made but the strait lines look more like wood.
Keep it going, your getting the hang of this. :)
08 August 2002, 09:26 AM
I see what you mean. I used a lot of vertical lines to avoid seams, but I agree that it's it is not realistic.
01 January 2006, 02:00 PM
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