View Full Version : PA Challenge - character/environment - Brian and Joe

02 February 2002, 04:55 AM
My friend Joe Cosman and I are going to be doing a collaborative piece. He'll be modeling a character, and I'll be handling the environment. Here's what I've got after a couple hours of work this morning:

My idea is to have the bunker entrance be the only visible sign of civilization. In the distance there will be burnt forests, and further still, some snow-capped mountains. I plan on giving the bunker itself some big, imposing looking doors down where that red light is, as well as the requisite grime maps and nurnies.

We'll post more here as we get stuff roughed-in.

02 February 2002, 05:03 AM
very sexy... pretty healthy start.

what 3D package are you using?

how are you going to blend the edge of the ground into the concrete? Its something i was wondering how to do with my own work.

02 February 2002, 05:29 AM
Thanks! Its done in Animation Master ( .

I'll probably hide the seam with a texture map and some creative placement of rubble/debris. I'm also not opposed to doing post-render painting on any elements that aren't up to snuff . . . at times its vastly easier to do something in a 2D pass.

Thanks again for the feedback Krugar!

02 February 2002, 07:17 AM
Hey Brian, really looking forward to see your finished image as Ive always liked those old of yours -- just to let ya know ;)

Im curious at what sort of angle you both will take on the final production ;)

02 February 2002, 11:53 AM
wow, I was just thinking brian should take part in this one. Post apocalyptic landscape would be right up his- and there we were.
Great start.
looking forward to seeing the character work as well.
(ps: to all non am users: Brian and Joe are both pretty famous in the hash (animation master- not the drug) community)

02 February 2002, 02:48 PM
brian, leav out the nurnies please...
it looks good as it is... just pull the thingies sticking out all the way into the ground. and use less bumps.

I like the way it looks clean and monumental, as though
it implies an ancient tomb. perhaps make it even bigger (shrink the doorway and lessen the slope... would make a more impressive picture, especially if the character is low tech.

Hightech built the place - lowtech inhabits it as the years and radiation "devolved" the humans.

I always think of hightech as less buttons and nurnies and
easier controls.

keep up the good work!

02 February 2002, 03:10 PM
what the hoodilly are "nurnies"?

02 February 2002, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Krugar
what the hoodilly are "nurnies"?

:) nurnies are usually associated with speacship and the like, they're little electronic, pipe, or mechanical looking objects that add function/life to a space ship texture, or in this case the entry way in B. Prince's pic.

And Brian, I knew you couldn't resist this one man, I'm anxiously looking forward to your entry and your competitions entry :)

02 February 2002, 07:19 PM
Nice start.
So the nurnies are those heatdispersation-like beams-thingys on the side? me confused...
I thought they were meant to fit concrete blocks for extra protection from the radiation ;)

02 February 2002, 07:54 PM
Ah, we use to call that "greebles" :)

Nice one Brian. Will this be the final perspective? It would be nice to see more landscape around the entrance instead of only off to the distance.

Keep it up


02 February 2002, 08:04 AM
Waiting for my laundry to dry I thought I'd take a stab at a character concept. I call his gun "The Cowsplitter" :D

Not really practical, just having fun.

02 February 2002, 08:08 AM
hehe. you could make the handle a little larger and he could use that gun for playing baseball, and or cricket :)

02 February 2002, 10:03 AM
I'm liking this character concept. It's very reminiscent of Fallout Tactics. Love that game. :) To make it even more intersting, try exaggeratin some parts of him. Experiment. Also, would be cool to see a big ass Energy cell or gas cylinder strapped to his back. Keep it up!

Oh, and a Bio Hazard tatoo on the back of his head would look sweet too.


02 February 2002, 10:14 AM
funny you mention the "FALLOUT" series... seems like that is all I can get into my head when looking at this topic...

...and that is why I am doing something completely different!

Brian: a fellow UTAH dude... I am actually moving to Seattle soon, but I will miss Utah, I like the style of your character sketch...


02 February 2002, 10:35 PM
Just thought I'd check in. let y'all know I'm here and interested and racking my brain....

I'll post some sketches sometime soon.

02 February 2002, 07:29 AM
Brain and Joe!! wow it's good to see you guys here, I'm not surprised that you combined skillz to enter the challenge :) I'm really looking forward to your kicka$$ piece..

Good Luck

02 February 2002, 07:42 AM
C'mon the magazine looks like it holds normal shotgun bullets.....maybe make it bigger or with a sort of laser beam generator to make it stand up for its name.
Or maybe there is much more to it than it seems ot me...

02 February 2002, 10:51 AM
well, you might be asking me "why are you modeling it when you could be modeling it??"

sometimes, 3d objects need to be seen in 3d :) every once in a while, I get stuck rearranging surfaces, and need to take a breather and figure out certain contours. a 5 dollar lump of clay and some sanded dowels just might do more for your sanity than any 3000 dollar computer.

anyway, here's a 'sketch' of a mask idea I was thinking about. the re-breather also serves as a radiator, too. Everyone knows that in the future, the temperature is just shy of turning earth into a ball of slag.:D

nothing is set in stone, so this design may change several times over the month, depending on how fast/lazy I am :cool:

02 February 2002, 08:10 PM
hey, i really like your work B.Prince, just looking over your site, and i love your terrains..... very nice...

Looking forward to seeing how you tackle this....

A question, how do you model your terrains??

is it splines or polys, so you use displacements??

02 February 2002, 09:19 PM
Very cool Joe. I like how the goggles interface with the respirator.

Kaos: Everything in A:M is spline-based. I usually start with about a 100x100 patch grid and then use the magnet tool to shape terrain. If I need finer details, then yeah, I'll use displacement maps.

bentllama: where are you at in UT? Eggington is just down in Pleasant Grove.

02 February 2002, 09:56 PM
JoeCosman: i've been checking into this thread on a daily basis hoping to get a glimpse of the character, and everyday there was nothing... until today.
It was certainly worth the wait. very cool. love the radiator.

i love how you make it seem that modelling something by hand is less work than 3d: "what, this thing?...nah, I just use it for reference" :p

Brian: love the bunker. very 'time tunnel'. Maybe you could give it a 60's-sci-fi-tv-show look like Pascal suggested. tht'd be nice.

love the cowsplitter. The way he's holding it reminds me of a chainsaw. :cool:

02 February 2002, 10:23 AM
decided to spend a night and rough out the helmet. I may just elaborate on the punk design Brian put up on this thread instead of trying to be a smartass. It's much faster that way :-)

Colors are not final, obviously. just separating my point groups.
in case anyone was wondering, the opening on top of the mask is for the mohawk or the Dragon Ball Z hairdo.


02 February 2002, 09:42 PM
That's looking nice Joe . . . it has that "miltary surplus" feel to it . . . maybe could use a knob on one side of the visor, for tweaking light amplification or something.

I'll definitely spend some more time on the environment this weekend.

02 February 2002, 11:46 PM
Yeah, more knobs and greeglies is better, but I prefer the dumbed down tech for infantry. the less you get to play with, the less that breaks. andt that's quality!

I've been thinking we've been playing too much Castle Wolfenstein:-) he needs a welding apron, or a trenchcoat-like outfit. I've got a few ideas kicking around my head.


02 February 2002, 03:21 AM
Hi balistic,

would you mind throwing out some more sketches ?
I really admire the rugged style. Shows me thereīs
something after pointilism and hours of crosshatching
(I failed to deliver both due to a lack of masochism).



P.S: some tips ? mucho appreciated.

02 February 2002, 03:51 AM
I'll do some more sketches and work on the landscape this weekend, if nothing comes up . . . had an unexpected date mid-week that kind of screwed up my creative schedule. In a decision between smooching and sketching, I think there's only one way to go . . .

I think the "rugged" style comes from my general lack of finesse with lines . . . I tend to think more in terms of light and shadow than in terms of edges and creases:
(just a paintchat doodle)

A lot of times I'll do my concept stuff in color, because I think that aspect of design is just as important as shape:

02 February 2002, 04:00 AM
YumYum. my heartīs in envy.


02 February 2002, 08:15 AM
Brian: I am in Midvale UTAH...I was working at Kodiak on Monsters Inc for PS2 before Kodiak closed its doors in December...

...I have found another great job though [in redmond, wa] and am starting there soon...


02 February 2002, 10:53 AM

Not a major update, just added some distant mountains and particulate haze. I'm thinking a forest of dead and splintered conifer trunks receding into the dust would be an interesting visual element. I'll try and get that roughed in tomorrow if my stupid sinus infection doesn't get worse.

02 February 2002, 04:44 AM
Looks great. I presume more detail will follow. So where is the character? ;)

02 February 2002, 05:55 AM
man brian, that's looking verrrry nice; I really like those ghosted out mountains. sweet render of it too.
conifer shards will look great-as if left standing after the 'blast' or firestorm.
can't wait to see what joe comes up with for the dweller...
It's great seeing some awsome splinage in here. I've gotta start practicin'! I haven't touched A:M in 2 months...
keep it up guys! Great work

02 February 2002, 10:13 PM
I know I havent been updating lately, but I finally got my new puter built and stable. Just remember, bedtime for artists only happen when you are utterly defeated. since AM didnt shut down, I went straight through till 3:30AM

I missed a few spots where the geometry intersects. I'll get to those later.

until next time,


02 February 2002, 11:07 PM
Ouuuuch!!!! Arrrrggghhhhhhhhh!

wonderfull stuff!!!

more polygones in your boots than in my Full Character!!!(with his boots) :D :D

02 February 2002, 11:16 PM
And a quick landscape update (don't worry wegg, I'm rendering):

02 February 2002, 11:24 PM
wew you guys are great!
Joe, your modeling skill is amazing I can't see any creasings on those boots.. when I modeled in A:M there always were creasings which is one of the reasons I moved away from it....

Balistic, you rock! one thing: I'm not sure about the haze.. shouldn't it be a bit less greenish? well just an idea..

02 February 2002, 11:34 PM
Thanks Jobbe . . . I want the air to look like something you definitely wouldn't want to breathe . . . like toxic dust, or something. Its actually pretty close to what the air looks like here in Utah right now . . . bleh!

02 February 2002, 11:49 PM
How the hell you gonna rig and pose that ankle joe?!

my god!

Awsome stuff dudes!

02 February 2002, 11:58 PM
shoes look complex, have you thought of texturing a few laces before duplicating them? :)

02 February 2002, 01:28 AM
I've worked with High patch models before, but this one may be the most complex one I've ever done(aside from the 20,000 patch Albertasaur skeleton on

two words on rigging the boots: I wont. :-)

actually, set driven key or Huge mutha-fan bones would work, but you might not notice either of them when it comes to animating. feet dont need to be as articulate as hands.

I'll burn that bridge when I get to it.

I fear that I have shot myself in the foot. now y'all will be expecting more on my next post. :-)


Capt Lightwave
02 February 2002, 12:45 AM
How about including some remnants from the "old times" like a couple of collapsed pylons and stuff in the distants...

Love the boots.

I'd love to see this when it's finished.
Keep it up guys.

02 February 2002, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by balistic
I want the air to look like something you definitely wouldn't want to breathe . . . like toxic dust, or something. Its actually pretty close to what the air looks like here in Utah right now . . . bleh!

well then the look is about right I think :D

02 February 2002, 09:28 PM
Sorry for taking so long to update. It's a bit busy for me up to the beginning of March. I just have to wrap up several projects first before getting back into the swing.

I did have a couple hours on the weekend, though, so here goes:

Several nurnies still need to be put up, such as the belts that hold the sleeves on, and the scarf for the neck and head.
Over all, I think I like this design.


02 February 2002, 01:07 PM
Joe, that is awesome!! Those boots are insane! :eek: And the folds in the jacket, and the way the straps hang, is spot on!

02 February 2002, 10:37 PM
had a few hours yesterday night, so I went ahead and modeled his pants. The legs dont quite line up, and he's got a bit of Ghetto Booty, but that will all get fixed. I passed the 13000 patch barrier, which is about 208.000 polys at rendertime.

bah, big deal :-)



02 February 2002, 10:50 PM
It's getting better and better, reminds me a lot of the clothes luke wear's on tatooine (well if he were a binplane pilot!)

Only small crit on the pants are the folds on the back- put some concave up moon sliver kinda indents above the bulges to give it a bit more weight. . . .And where's his HEAD? :D :D

see you,


03 March 2002, 12:22 AM
nice work together, I also like the environment
god luck

03 March 2002, 01:14 AM
Yeah, I was thinking I'd put more wrinkles in later, maybe mess more with the pants. as you can see, the leggings dont quite match up with the boots, and his boots still need to be a bit bigger.

Brian and I were thinking he should have some HUUUGE gauntlets instead of just gloves. MAybe the fingertips are cropped, or something.

head, gloves, buckles, snaps and knobs are pretty much all thats left to make. everything else is just tweaking proportions and CPs.

03 March 2002, 09:25 PM

We'll get something done for this contest if it kills us . . .

03 March 2002, 12:44 AM
Nice progress. I really like the crazy detail on those boots. Nice texturing on the scene and character as well. Only thing I don't care for is the harsh angle of that render.

03 March 2002, 01:27 AM
The lights and darks balance out, and it leads your eye towards the entrance, provided you ever get past the guard... I like it. the personality of the inhabitants changes if you cant see straight.

That or the Camera man just got taken out by that massive gun.


I'll post some GI pictures of the soldiers soon. Still tweaking.


03 March 2002, 03:16 AM
cool, thats real sexy. i dig the over-exposed film grain look.

i think the stance of that guy looks awkward. i think his center of gravity is off... but the camera angle maybe deceptive.

i suggest you bring the gun closer to him and make the the back section rest against his leg. and maybe move his right leg further to his right to counter balance the weight of the gun?

mmm yeah, thats nice lighting.

03 March 2002, 04:26 AM
coming on guys. His posture needs some work, as does his detail on his body, background to. Maybe I am being picky, but you might see the same thing.

Great job otherwise

03 March 2002, 04:35 AM
Hey guys,
Great work. You are close to being my favorite. But, if you are going to keep the camera angle you might try to widen the angle a bit more. It will help a lot. Also I would like to see one more compositional element breaking up the horizontal from upper left toward lower right. I think this will help solve some of the weight issues I am feeling.
Really outstanding work. I love to see collaborative works turn out so well. Both of you are very talented 3D artists.

03 March 2002, 03:09 PM
wow, i love it lots just like jelly tots.......

One thing that i think really messes it up, is the characters arm.... fair enough, its post apocalyptic and all, but, c'mon, a gaurd with a broken arm trying to hold a gun like that???

but other than that, its WOW WOW better than a COw

BTW : his right arm, his right, not ours.. the upper arm area.... it looks difigured...

great work....

oh, and also, i know the noise is probably just a style your going for, but it does nothing for me.......

03 March 2002, 09:40 PM
Arm's been fixed. Grain is from raytraced soft shadows (no GI used). Its rendering right now. Out.

03 March 2002, 09:47 PM

Older render. See Brian's post above.

Film grain is the renderer's fault.

/me sharpens photoshop Tools.....

03 March 2002, 11:40 PM
Crazy detailled boots!.
I really like, it's a very hight quality work.
I'm agree about the Koryh's comment: equilibrate the weight of the scene.

Good job in the textures and colors of the clothes.
I love the people work in team.

03 March 2002, 02:38 AM
Really nice work and great color scheme. Keep it up! :D

03 March 2002, 02:54 AM
Very Good!!!!!!!! :D

Fantastic Environment/Character....

I like very much the noised rendering version....



03 March 2002, 11:55 AM
This hasn't had Joe's final approval yet, but I wasn't sure when the absolute deadline was, so I figured I'd put this up just in case:

For those of you just joining us (it took me forever to get around to making a thumbnail), Joe Cosman modeled the character and weapon, and I handled environment, lights, and shaders.

03 March 2002, 02:26 PM
just love the mood you two created here! Brilliant!

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