View Full Version : Are you a flame artist?

08 August 2002, 03:32 AM
Last night I am thinking of some compositing tools and I really have some questions. Do you know any compositing programs, yes but please list all.

Just Some I Know: Feel free to add more
Discreet Combustion
Eyeon Software Digital Fusion
Adobe After Effects
Nothing Real Shake
Nothing Real Tremor

And question appears here:
Please tell me what are the use of Discreet's flame, inferno, smoke, flint, infrastructure, fire, paint, effect, frost and more...
When I remember them, I dont know what are they. All of them is for compositing? They have same features for specific jobs or are they complete as a whole? Please tell me something about this. I want to know this.

And also what is the difference in Nothing Real's Shake and Tremor? Are they different or complete as a whole or same features but more on the other?

The Magic Pen
08 August 2002, 04:02 AM
Fielding welcome to the forum , you might want to try each products website , I am sure it will be able to explain what each does a lot better then a brief statement any of us could make :wavey:

08 August 2002, 06:17 AM
Oh really thanks for your kind reply magic. What is your name?:hmm:

08 August 2002, 08:23 AM
Most people I run into now adays are working with "Combustion" and/or "After Effects" seats when it comes to compositing. I think Paint and Effect* were discontinued... (not sure)
But other than that, companies still have Inferno seats out there. Im sure the other stuff is still used like you mentioned, but this is just my $00.02 from people I run into regularly.

08 August 2002, 11:31 AM

Now if you'll excuse me I'll be getting back to my hangover.
regards, Paul

08 August 2002, 12:53 PM

I got some info that might help...

All-round production and editing system designed for any format: TV, film, video and interactive media. Flame* has real-time feedback of effects without the need for rendering. It's architecture also enables plugins(known as sparks*) to be used from a multitude of manifacturers, or custom-written effects to be developed. (SGI)

This program is essentially the high-end version of Flame*. It's designed specifically for high-definition, long-format film, and 10- or 12-bit video. It also includes full video, video-to-film, film-to-film and plain old film editing facilities. Inferno* adds non-linear editing and compositing tools, making it the tool of choice for pros. (SGI)

On-line editing and finishing solution for creative editing of uncompressed video, catering for all resolutions from D1 to HDTV. Real-time interactivity and non-linear approach make it simple to experiment. It features image enhancement tools, character generation and dv effects. It also works with sparks* plug-ins. (SGI)

This is a real-time, non-linear editing suite which also performs compositing, keying and vissual effects on the desktop. It has a proffesional, high-speed editing toolset, plus unmatched real-time capabilities. It's also designed for use either as a standalone editor or integrated with other products in the Discreet range. (Windows NT)

Interactive, vector-based painting and animation system for still frames and (chiefly) video/film sequences. It's like a photoshop for film, but everything is treated as a vector object, even paint strokes, providing unprecedented levels of both control and flexibility. (Windows 95, Windows NT and Macintosh)

Compositing, clip animation and visual effects for video and film sequences within a fully 3D environment. Resolution independence, real-time lighting with raytraced shadows, specular surfaces, depth of field and many other tricks make some astonishing effects possible. (Windows 95, Windows NT and Macintosh)

A pure on-line, non-linear editor for uncompressed film or video, designed as a replacement for linear edit bays. Features full editing tools with a friendly user interface, plus full bandwidth RGB image quality. Supports any of the modules for Fire* and Flame* - as well as the Sparks* plug-ins - enabling it to grow as needed. (SGI)

Frost*/ Vapour*
Frost* is a template-based real-time 3D graphics system for news, weather and sports graphics production, with real-time external control capabilities. It can be automated to render 3D imagery and text on-the-fly. Vapour* is a Virtual Studio Module, which can turn Frost* scenes into 3D scenes combined with live action. (SGI)

(Paint* & Effect* are nowdays combined to form Combustion*)


08 August 2002, 02:31 AM
Oggie this realy helped me alot. Thanks for your attractive feedback. what is your real name?

Joel Hooks
08 August 2002, 03:55 AM
Are you some sort of cyber stalker? creepy!


(by his signature there I am guessing he is one Marko Ljubez, unless it's a clever plot to foil your identification plans)

08 August 2002, 05:12 AM
Hey lowdown I just want to thank to him. You have a bad heart, I am a 17 year old girl. OK? And I can thank someone in the way what I want.

08 August 2002, 08:40 AM
I'm just waiting for the 'a/s/l wanna cyber?' stuff now :rolleyes:

08 August 2002, 09:25 AM
Geeeezzzz.....easy does it SlipKorn:eek: :)

Personally I am into Combustion and that....gotta love that partical library:thumbsup: Pluse I think the features rock and will be using it hardcore for some films on the horizon that will really put Combustion (and not to mention my to the test!

17 gal who's into Visual Effects and hang around here huh? Geeee....I love to bump into someone like that in real life, ultimate gf:p


08 August 2002, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by SlipKorn
I'm just waiting for the 'a/s/l wanna cyber?' stuff now :rolleyes:

BWAAHHAHAH!!! You forgot 'pic". jk.

No but seriously... what's the situation with Combustion? Are they still developing it? It's a great package for the price it is. Last I heard, the team was mutilated.

08 August 2002, 03:16 AM
Its still go. They 'relocated' the development team to Montreal, which in reality meant almost all of them left & now work for Apple (in the same building, or so I heard). There is still a committed development team & Discreet are continiung with it.

08 August 2002, 05:33 AM
Originally posted by Chris
Its still go. They 'relocated' the development team to Montreal, which in reality meant almost all of them left & now work for Apple (in the same building, or so I heard). There is still a committed development team & Discreet are continiung with it.

Apple huh? Perhaps doing stuff on "Nothing Real" division?

08 August 2002, 08:42 PM
yup, apparently. Working on the new Shake & whatever else Apple has up its sleeve with all these buy ups... :shrug:

08 August 2002, 10:13 PM
>>And also what is the difference in Nothing Real's Shake and Tremor? Are they different or complete as a whole or same features but more on the other?

Tremor is pretty much a turnkey based solution for Shake. It is a intel based box that is either linux or windows and it comes with a HP box, 24" wide screen sony monitor, HD or SD rez DDR, and 2 additional render nodes. The software is pretty much the same as shake except for the VTR out nodes for going out to HD or SD and the distributed render manager. It also has a different interface that you can also use in shake if you want.

Apple stopped selling Tremor after they bought NR but they said at the users group meeting that they will continue to develop the software for the existing customers. The HD box that they use for tremor came out for macintosh about 1 month before apple bought NR so I wouldn't doubt that we are going to see a apple version of tremor in the near future.

08 August 2002, 07:57 PM
quick note about combustion:

programmers and customers have been fighting with execs about combustions lack of realtime video play back.

as it stands I can play an .avi file through windows media player in real time.. but when I import into combustion I have to ram it up, then play it back.

Programmers have to add one simple set of code to alow combustion to play video back in real time, but then why would anyone buy a flame?


08 August 2002, 11:42 PM
>>Programmers have to add one simple set of code to alow combustion to play video back in real time, but then why would anyone buy a flame?

You should learn a little bit more about flame before you talk about it. Flame isn't simply a version of combustion on sgi. It does anywhere between 12-20+ layers of D1 or HD rez video all in realtime and all uncompressed. No rendering! The keyer and color corrector is much better than combustion. Flame is mainly aimed at people with a director over their shoulder saying, do this, do that, move this, move that and then you play it back on the ntsc or hdtv screen for them. With combustion it would be more like, move this, move that, color correct that, and now we wait 10 minutes for a flipbook(30 for a hd rez flipbook). Oh you dont like that color, ok, change color, now another 10 minutes for another flipbook, etc...

All hardware based compositors cost around 100k+. Even strata/mezzo the flame like counterpart discreet is working on for windows/linux boxes has a starting price of 100k. The hd equipment alone for realtime playback of uncompressed single stream is about 15-25k alone and another 15k for just a HD monitor.

08 August 2002, 06:11 AM

I'm a compositor and based on my experience I can tell you what FFI is in real world.

combustion*-similar but better than after effect; same plugins.
Used mainly for prework (roto matte
generations/extraction). Runs on a small NT box.

flint*- better than combustion and has 90% of the tools found in
flame* can handle composites but not for onine work. You
throw some shots to this box if you're in-charge. NTSC/PAL

flame*- Does everything but slow on film.

inferno* -This is the weapon of choice. You can throw anything
back immediately to them what they throw to you using
this beast. Like, 'what? that's too simple to do that

smoke* Do your editing here. Take all what FFI is doing except

fire* smoke*'s big brother.

08 August 2002, 06:14 AM
By the way, beaker, all these machines render; take it from me.

08 August 2002, 09:30 AM
Yea, I know they render, I was generalizing too much. I just hate it when people compare hardware compositors to software compositors and just say, why waste your money on that crap when they don't understand them in the first place.

Can't wait for those linux render nodes for flame and inferno, huh :)

08 August 2002, 10:14 AM
Hey, beaker! I've been too immersed with my work lately and I have no idea what discreet is planning regarding this linux render nodes. The recent thing that I'm aware about was that they are developing toxic for nt(?) and is still being developed. I have to d/l our mails from the list which I think is over a thousand already just to get updated.

These render nodes that you mentioned-- i have to check this out but since were not investing on Linux (yet) I'm not that informed in the office about what's going on. We're Irix/NT2K users and no plans for linux systems. That's a good news actually to know they (discreet) are developing these render nodes for linux which will make batch rendering faster.

08 August 2002, 10:15 AM
A flame-artist? - you mean like an isonews mod then? - no.


08 August 2002, 09:01 PM
Not sure if your joking around or not, but you can check info on it here:

08 August 2002, 03:47 PM
Beaker - yes I was just joking around a bit :)

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