View Full Version : second round head

07 July 2004, 03:25 PM
i've been trying to fix all the problems in the face, the lips are the main problem right now

it certainly looks better than it did when i started back in february but i haven't worked on it much since

i am going for a teenage look but slightly chubbier than most cg girls

ignore the crease near the ear on the face, i will smooth that out later

and the eyes, i will fix those later too so don't worry bout that

so....crits on getting it photorealistic-y*nervous desperate laugh* but maybe stylized, you know, like how you can see other ppl's characters sometimes and know who made it also help on topology is nice too

07 July 2004, 03:27 PM
oh btw i am using 3dsmax 5
default renderer
no lights (default)

07 July 2004, 03:16 PM

I am still working on the mouth area. I also reattached the ears at a different angle so that they stick out more to my liking.

07 July 2004, 10:05 PM
Look at the line where her lips meet. From the front it is almost horizontal. That line, on most people, forms a slight 'w' or 'm' shape, usually more so on big, pouty lips. I wouldn't over do it if I were you.
Her nose and her chin are kind of strong. You might make both chin and nose sharper and make the nose narrower.


07 July 2004, 10:13 PM
Wow. Alot of improvement since I last saw you post something on your head project. The proportions of the face are looking great now. The topology of the wireview seems fine to me. That's always hard to tell for sure until you actually try rigging and animating it. The only thing I can see and you may have already seen it yourself is the back of the head, seen in the side view, needs to be rounded out a bit more.

As far as getting it to the photorealistic stylized level you want - all the basics and broad features are there and seem fine, it's the small details at this point that'll bring it into focus. Not much I can say about that but to study your references closely. Eyes are probably the most critical thing. Humans convey alot of information with our faces and in particular the area around our eyes. If anything makes a face not look quite 'real' in 3D or a painting it usually seems to be because some subtlety of the eyes are a little off and some corner of our brains notices that immediately. You seem to have a good eye for paying attention to such things so if you have good references to work from I don't anticipate you having any trouble.

I'm curious about how you did the eyelashes - did you use that spline technique you once showed me a link to a tutorial for? I still haven't tried that yet but I just picked up a freelance assignment I'm busy with now that I think I might use it on. Depends on which program I decide to do the final rendering in.

I'm still surprised that someone who is still in high school is doing work this good. If you are doing stuff like this now and improving so quickly I can only imagine what you'll be doing a few years from now. Hopefully you'll get to pursue CG as a career. It's been neat seeing how this project has progressed and steadily improved over time. I'm looking forward to seeing some different models too.

07 July 2004, 06:05 AM
Tantramancer: Well, I've jumped back a step from texturing, so the eyes are just placeholders right now and I haven't modeled the tear duct etc.

The tutorial for the lashes are on under tutorials. It took me a while to do but that's only b/c I'm too stupid to find buttons on my menus. *rolls eyes*

I think I pay TOO much attention to things, cuz the other day I asked my brother which render looked better out of two (one was changed at the lips) and he said after looking several times that they are the exact same...

And lastly...if you call redoing this head over and over since february fast...ok! We have different definitions then. But I really have learned a lot, I basically started in February and got really into it this summer. I highly doubt cg will end up as my career tho...*cries*

SlashTen: I will try your ideas of making the nose and chin less broad. I simply was attempting to go against the normal cg look, but then again I want people to not think "poor quality" when I finish. I definitely agree about the mouth though.

Do you think that the forehead is too high? Someone on another forum said so. And ears attached wrong? (not talking about being sticking out too much, I am prolly gonna keep that)

07 July 2004, 07:36 AM
To show a clear and definite progression of skill to a significant degree over a period of a few months is fast in my opinion. Some people I went to college with showed little or no improvement in actual skill even after 2 years or more, yet some of them still passed but ended up not getting jobs in the art field. Other people, like one of my roommates at that time, couldn't even draw a stick figure correctly when he first got there but after 2 years when he graduated he had a stunning portfolio of work and now he is a professional portrait artist earning a few thousand per commission. Everybody learns at different speeds. The most important thing in being able to learn quickly and learn well as an artist is to be self-critical in a good way and know how to learn from those self-evaluations. The progression I've seen over the past few months shows that you are capable of that so it's likely that you will continue to progress considerably farther.

I think the placement of the eyes works. I remember the last time I viewed one of the last stages you were working on that kind of stuck out as being a problem area. I agree with Slashten that the chin is maybe a bit broad for a female. The nose I don't mind so much. The forehead depends on a few things. There are basically 3 different form structures for heads: mesocephalic (round head), brachycephalic (broad head) and dolichocephalic (long head). Ethnic derivation and other factors help to determine type. The forehead can work within that framework if you planned it that way. Did you have a specific ethnic type in mind or are you trying to make her more of an indistinct mixed heritage?

The features as you have them are within normal human ranges, it's just more a matter of an opinion on aesthetics. It really depends on your reference material too. Are you trying to make this face look like a single specific person or making more of a generic face of your own imagining culled from a variety of source images? If it's to be a likeness of a specific person then maybe their features are supposed to look like that. Compare with your references then. If it's a made-up face created from a variety of sources then you'd probably want to conform to more mainstream notions of aesthetics to appeal to a wider viewing audience.

I suppose it could help to take a step back from it in your mind and try to clarify your vision of the character's face at this point: age, ethnic makeup, is she femme-fatale or girl next door and anything else you can think of. You may have been looking at it too closely for too long and focusing on the technical aspects more than the aesthetics. It might help to reassess the nature and aesthetic purpose of the character now that the broad technical points have largely been dealt with.

07 July 2004, 06:42 PM
tried to work on the mesh, getting rid of the 8 sided poly by the ear and making all quads, also tried to lessen amount of polys around chin/jaw...but it is hard to follow the flow

hmm the attach is not working, so i'll link it to another thread where there are pics (look at the last posts)

look at the last few posts (

07 July 2004, 07:41 PM
Someone in the Threedy forums already pointed you in the correct direction as far as topology, but here is a thread that might explain it in more depth:

I think your head needs to be a bit wider. It should be five eyewidths wide if it is to standard proportions. The eyeline should be midway in the head, and you have this correct, so you don't need to worry about the height of the forehead, though you might wan't to take a look at skulls and make sure you have the shape correct. Also, you might want to widen the jaw a bit. That last pic in the Threedy thread had a really thin jaw.

08 August 2004, 08:51 AM
good modling not finish?

08 August 2004, 10:56 AM
little update, started on hair and eye texture

on the uv mapping, how do you copy and mirror uvs? I tried copying and pasting but tehre was still only one uv there. I thought perhaps it had pasted directly on top of the original but there was only one uv side of the head.

still need to work on the inner eye corner, looks a little strange when she is turned like this. and the lips of course.

09 September 2004, 08:43 AM
better jaw?

sorry for dark render

09 September 2004, 09:29 AM
just learned how to do uvs correctly

just a fun texture (it's mostly just faked color with a translucency map, so i can still go back and change a lot of the modeling if necessary)

and still having trouble with lips if you have any tips that would be nice

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