View Full Version : [WIP][HAIRY TROLL][hoochoochoochoo]

05 May 2004, 03:45 PM
there's a bit more time on this one so I should get this done! :drool:

I'm going to go for a semi-realistic Hairy Troll - maybe something along the lines of a LOTR type charcater. The fur or hair will NOT be all over the figure (think I learned enough about that making Tardy's whiskers)

Drawings tomorrow.

05 May 2004, 08:09 AM
I'm SURE I had posted more than this????

What's happened to the thread????
What happened to the posts????

H E L P ! ! ! ! !

05 May 2004, 08:16 AM
just saw Leonards announcement about CGTalk being hacked...

well here we go again...

05 May 2004, 08:18 AM

05 May 2004, 08:19 AM

05 May 2004, 06:08 PM
Here's the latest after I managed to grab some time before going home.

The head isn't right yet but I better start on the hair/fur/prickles tonight.

05 May 2004, 06:39 PM

NOW I'm going home.

05 May 2004, 10:07 AM
another anomaly - I couldn't (whatever I tried) create one last 5 point patch on this model. Eventually I resorted to version 10.5 and that allowed me to create the patch straight away.


couldn't help tweaking lastnight and this morning and have modified some proportions a bit more.

Started to create the strange folds at the neck too, not totally happy with them but I'll start on the skin treatment now.

05 May 2004, 10:23 AM
Played with Porcelain for the first time, very cool! I'm using it on his face as there where only so many tweaks I could do.

Process - apply to group, open attribute shortcuts all the way to surface shortcut and at the bottom is a "normal-weighting" setting. In this case, 5%. I then found strange blackened patches which turned out to be inverted normals. Once I had inverted the normals the patches had a strange look about them, almost like a second skin. This was resolved by closing & re-loading the project.

All in all, very cool! Porcelain now makes AM very very sweet!

05 May 2004, 11:36 AM

early attempt at the stone hair on this guy. Only one hair emmitter used but the image isn't lying the way I want it to on the finger - it's facing the camera but I want it to lie along the skin surface like flakes (or even shark scales)


05 May 2004, 01:45 PM
hey Hooch nice progress there.

the hair emitter has a Face camera property by setting this to 0% and adjusting the thickness and bow settings of the emitter I think you can get some very acceptable scale/feather looking surfaces.

and with the ability to change thickness over the length of the hair (scale) you can make the shape very believable for whatever kind of scale you might need. Hope this helps.


05 May 2004, 08:22 AM
did these over the weekend and had a LOT of fun with the new Materials (haven't played with materials since version 8.5) and was truly impressed by the speed of render.
Used to press render then come back 3-4 days later while AM crunched those numbers. Turnaround on 3-4 pass multipass here was 30 minutes max..

05 May 2004, 08:29 AM
I got this from playing with deeply nested material-nodes

and then I put all the effects I wanted into ONE photoshop file, played with layers and rubbed away to create overlay effects

Next feature request would be to have masking on materials in AM so I could get similar results in future

05 May 2004, 08:34 AM
This is the closest I got with creating the "Stone" skin material I could. I deleted porcelain as this counteracted the effects I wanted but hey, I finally got to try porcelain out..

Final skin settings -

and a close-up of his face

05 May 2004, 08:36 AM
close-ups of the hands..

Only problem is the overlaid effects on the tops of the arms follow that nice "square" shaped patch....

mmm.. spray-on materials effects... drooooolll!

05 May 2004, 11:33 AM

not sure why this is happening - maybe I'll need to make decals from the material and then the hair material won't be affected by the image map for the hair/scales or the key-colour I used..
(in this case, yellow 255 or 100% affects the surrounding patches)
but as I'm still using version 11 I may need an update?

05 May 2004, 02:46 PM
not the best angle but I have to shut down soon so no time to

Re-loading the project after hair/normals changes has become routine. I don't like the faint yellow outline on the scales and I think they're too different from the skin material.

Back at workon Wednesday so I'll post some more developments (but it does feel like I'm talking to myself...) except I don't have version 11 running on my old Macs at home.

<looks over shoulder into darkness...>

05 May 2004, 03:18 PM
Beautiful progress Hoochchoochoo !

This is not a one man conversation. ;)

05 May 2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by modernhorse

This is not a one man conversation. ;)

well.... how about a "one-Troll" conversation then? :p

Have changed (simplified) the image-maps on the hair emitters as the detail was lost anyway, changed the key colour from yellow to sickly green and now there's no leakage.

Oh yes, a tip - if you are modifying your hair in grooming mode and need to correct a mistake simply remove the offending cp's from the emitting group, reload and then re-group them. There's no undo button in grooming mode and this is the next best solution (I found)

Enough talking -

05 May 2004, 01:57 PM

apologies for the file-size on the last.. I have been reducing the images to 640 x 480 but I liked this one.

05 May 2004, 03:33 PM
not liking the shoulder on the left - am open to opinion if anyone is willing to voice it.
I also have an unhappy feeling I should have a different type of hair / fur but then it could seem like hair / fur for the sake of it.

Doug? Are you still there?

05 May 2004, 03:38 PM
Hooch -
I'm here and ready to offer my opinions. I just can't be silent anymore.

NO do not change the hair. It looks tough, stony and nasty and its perfect. In regards to the shoulder, I think it looks too 'peaked'. Perhaps broaden the area after the armpit a bit to fill out the bicep area a little - tho you might then have to shift the elbow area down towards the hand a little, eh?

To reiterate - don't change the hair !!!

05 May 2004, 03:46 PM
from a Troll to a Horse...


I actually did peak the handles at the shoulder and you've set me to thinking. Cheers again! I'll try and post some variables on the left arm tonight and see what you think.

05 May 2004, 05:38 PM

this version of the left arm is closer to the original "photoshopped" version that had random skin effects.

I've been staring at reluctant grooming handles too long. However treatment of the scales look unfinished still.

05 May 2004, 02:55 PM
TrollChooChoo -
That first pic of your recent post looks good. Less sharp in the shoulder area. btw - the shoulders as they were weren't a 'show stopper' for me. It was a minor thing. And when you look at the proportions of the entire model its even less of an issue.

Good work as usual.

05 May 2004, 04:57 PM

I have NOTHING to say.. my mummy loved me even if I DO look like a troll first thing in the morning...

Todays pics (grabbed some free time before I head home in 10 mins)

a close up of the shoulder -

and this one of the back. If it's not onscreen yet, check back in 5 minutes - SmartFTP is doing its best to upload as fast as it can!

Lastly, Doug, I DID listen to your opinion - just hadn't time to render it out before (and it takes a while to move those grooming handles into place...)

06 June 2004, 11:52 AM
having trouble getting an alpha channel to mask out a decalled groove but here's the trolls weapon
(I tried turning the stone material into a decal to cut render time down.)

I'm having strange problems with these images- the lycos link doesn't seem to be picking everything up. I've tried the image tab address again and again but not picking up for some reason.

Apologies - but if there is anyone visiting this thread for updates you'll just have to check back later!

06 June 2004, 12:23 PM
Argh! Dirty rotten Lycos ... I hope it's free Hooch.

06 June 2004, 12:57 PM
Hi Horse dude type person! my previous images are coming up blank on screen too,
have you got the same problem?? I've double checked EVERYTHING and the files are there on the Lycos server, same address as the other ones..

Mind you, funny things always happen near the end of my competitions... ("Outer Limits" music comes on in background.....)

06 June 2004, 03:08 PM
got an email back from Lycos and they are having problems with the FTP server....

getting the feeling that I should stop entering these darn mini-contests...:sad:

06 June 2004, 03:16 PM
Heya Troll Hooch -

You could attach them to the thread via CGTalk server can't you? I've never been able to do so but you could try.

06 June 2004, 03:24 PM
here's a try but I had to reduce the heck out of the image...

almost pointless..

06 June 2004, 03:28 PM
Yeah that is teeny. Oh well, I guess we'll just wait on Lycos won't we?

I'm not having much luck finishing up mine and I have no server to blame it on. Just my modeling speed. Bird's feet are really hard. :eek:

Horse out.

06 June 2004, 03:32 PM
you think that's teeny?? ARE YOU NOT SATISFIED MAN???

:scream: :beer:

here's another pointless image... side view

06 June 2004, 05:48 PM
working on the tufts of hair that branch from the head of the model - got one "braid" done and hoped to save time by copying and pasting sections of model that had been groomed...

unfortunately, the groomed areas are NOT duplicated. Looks nice though and I'm itching to post an image.

06 June 2004, 08:26 AM

06 June 2004, 11:52 AM

1 - 2 Not sure whether I like the groomed braids or whether to leave them as they come direct.. any opinions would be appreciated - even if you hate the model.!
3 - these scales work fine close up but feel "lost" from further away in this whole body shot. I'm itching to "grow" these scales more... again any opinions would be appreciated.
4- the last areas to "scale/hair" up. Same general scale design to be used.

Also now ready to rig him so he / it can grab the crossbow ready for posing. That's if MY IMAGES WILL WORK!!!:banghead:

06 June 2004, 04:56 PM

Have played with the scales at his/its wrist and now made up one side of the braided hair.

Next job is the other side, the hair that drapes over his/its figure

06 June 2004, 06:39 PM
Hooch -
My opinions now that Lycos has been cooperative ...

I think the hair on the arms looks sort of like moss from a distance. Which is cool, it suits the stoney nature of this guy.

I like the braids as they are in the last post, except the color. I think the red is sort of ... i dunno, innapropriate for this guy. But now that I think of it I don't know his history so maybe it is appropriate. But perhaps a toned down more natural-ish red and a green - like he would have dyed it himself with wild berries or something?

The eyes are perfect. Blank and piercing at the same time. Cool !

I can't wait to see this guy posed. Great job so far.

06 June 2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by modernhorse
Hooch -
perhaps a toned down more natural-ish red and a green - like he would have dyed it himself with wild berries or something?

The eyes are perfect. Blank and piercing at the same time.

Thanks Horse-type-guy.. I loved the idea of using natural materials to dye the colours in. Here's a quick test render for your perusal..

Oh yes, the eyes.. I used the X-Ray.mat as a base for his/its eyes.
They do look a bit like they've been plonked into a mesh but there are modelled eyesockets there. It's one of things I'm toying with changing...

06 June 2004, 02:56 PM
Hooch !

GREAT ! Thanks for taking my comments to heart as I think the hair is working much better now. I really think this guy has a ton of personality. That's two competitions and two offbeat/oddball characters (Tardy and now Trolly). Great work.

While i'm here ... how about armpit and crotch hair? Any plans for that?

They do look a bit like they've been plonked into a mesh but there are modelled eyesockets there. It's one of things I'm toying with changing...

To my eyes, its eyes work as they are. That may differ from your opinion but there you have it.

Keep on, this is great!

06 June 2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by modernhorse

That's two competitions and two offbeat/oddball characters (Tardy and now Trolly).

While i'm here ... how about armpit and crotch hair? Any plans for that?

I should really post the last image but I've given up on the side body fur as it looked awful.. armpit & crotch hair huh.....?

Nice idea!

Oh yes.. Tardy never made it to the deadline, (did I ever send you the mesh to try out?) I'm hoping this guy does but I have lip / facial bumps and wrinkles to add sometime soon.

06 June 2004, 03:08 PM
Tardy never made it to the deadline, (did I ever send you the mesh to try out?)

Yes, you did. Have you worked further on him since the end of the competition? I still want to export him to LW, and work with him there. Its one of those things on my list. :)

06 June 2004, 03:26 PM
thinking about this further Mr Horse-Type-Fella...
do you mean real hairy hair? I'm sitting here trying to figure out what stone hair looks like!

maybe I should look at rock crystals but you never have any round when you need them!

Sorry - Tardys mesh hasn't changed although I've been growing hair on him to learn how to use version 11 hair!

06 June 2004, 03:35 PM
do you mean real hairy hair? I'm sitting here trying to figure out what stone hair looks like! Well, seems as though he's a stoney fella how about little sticks that had lichen or leaves on them (for the crotch). hehe just brainstorming.

You could also use moss or scales like you already have on the arms.

This is fun. My poor job. :rolleyes:

06 June 2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by modernhorse
how about little sticks that had lichen or leaves on them (for the crotch).

would you like me to do a handstand while I create this from the fur system or can I remain seated??

Originally posted by modernhorse
You could also use moss or scales like you already have on the arms.

Well... I'm going to try and create image maps for the hair.. maybe stone hair with lichen though - like he/its used to lying down amongst other stones. He's way too clean at the moment anyway.

Originally posted by modernhorse
This is fun. My poor job. :rolleyes:

Give me your boss's number, you have way too much time for your hard requests...:drool:

06 June 2004, 03:49 PM
HAHAHAHA ! Good luck with all the changes !!

06 June 2004, 12:42 PM
hehe! I'll sneak on here when you ain't lokking Mr Horse...

well, here's the model as is so far - body hair starting to be placed. This is just a preview render of the model, all hair emitters set to shaded.

Then close up renders of two versions of the underarm bodyhair - one uses an image map with a key colour - these ALWAYS have an element of bleed. (I even used screen dumps to color-find in photoshop to get as close a match as possible)

Side 1 is the hair.mat affected by skin material settings - not ideal
Side 2 is the image mapped hair - the key colour is now affecting the skin patches again. :shrug:

06 June 2004, 01:57 PM
Are you putting an image on the emitter? Or are you creating a "properties-driven" map to control color?

Since you have an emitter just for the arm pit, it might be easiest to set it's color properties directly in the emitter, keyframing color along the length, while the brightness attribute gives you a little variation.

Did you forget an emitter for the pubic hair, or does this guy shave:eek:

06 June 2004, 02:24 PM
hello Will.!
I tried an image on the emitter and that's the result on side 2 of the last image posted.
I haven't tried a properties driving map as I thought version 11's hair didn't use them? You have me thinking again...

as to shaving - hehe! just haven't gotten round to making and grooming it yet!

06 June 2004, 02:53 PM
gonna get kicked out in a moment so here's my last for the weekend

Will, I tried the colour changes along the timeline and this was to get greenish (moss? dye?) tips to the hair. There's also a random hair emitter in too.

06 June 2004, 05:47 PM
Wow! that last one looks great! I love the moss hair!:applause:

06 June 2004, 12:38 PM
Fantastic job! I agree with Will this looks really great.

Horse out.

06 June 2004, 04:52 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys!

Sorry no updates recently - busy at work but rigging is continuing.
Should have him finally rigged by the end of tonight and an environment (suitably rocky - stony) ready for tomorrow evening.

Best wishes to Obnomauk, ModernHorse and TheKamps.. lets see if we can all make the completion date (my First!)

06 June 2004, 06:46 PM
always HATED posing models as I've not had to do that often enough but here's a preview of one possible pose

be brutal - I HAVE to finish this tomorrow as I'm not around on the 12th. Going home with my sketch pad to work on poses....

The hands haven't been posed - our security staff are BAWLING at me to go home and the elctricity will be turned off if I don't leave now...


06 June 2004, 07:14 PM
Hey Hooch -
That pose looks cool. I'd like to see one with him leaning against the door of the cave in an disinterested sort of way, maybe be with his crossbow thingie hanging at his side.

Congrats on getting this far - way ahead of me i'm afreard. :rolleyes:

06 June 2004, 09:27 AM
thanks for the encouragement Doug!

Been very busy with normal duties this week so haven't done as much as I'd have liked.

Almost the final version - render is strangely pale so I may have some tweaks yet.
Thanks for the suggestion but I don't have time for any more big changes and I'm done in an hour and have to go to London yet again so

here's nearly done - may grow the pubic moss up the side of the building... maybe..

06 June 2004, 11:08 AM
Hokay, they will wait no more for me -

here's my Final Final image and I can do no more until Monday.

Light lists on the troll made the background very light and the troll very dark..

yes you read that right, have they changed how light lists work???

So, I changed the light list onto THE SET and the Troll came out as I'd hoped when he's lit. I'm no lighting expert so the longer moss hanging down in fronds is a bit dark to see (too dark)

I'm also NOT going to be able to post to Obnomauks Judging thread so that probably disqualifies me but I ain't here tomorrow and he's not posted a thread yet.

Oh yes, the image..
Have a nice weekend all and best of luck the the competitors!

06 June 2004, 08:58 PM
Whoa! How did I miss all this? What a cool character! Gross but cool! Nice work, hooch.


06 June 2004, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by hoochoochoochoo [/B]

You have to make some Dynamics Tests - Showing Potential....

06 June 2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by JTalbotski
How did I miss all this?

Thanks Jim! Means a lot getting a compliment from you! As to your question, I'm probably on a lot of peoples "ignore" list so don't fret about it. Read your reply elsewhere and hope everything in your life is OK again!

Originally posted by violet903
You have to make some Dynamics Tests - Showing Potential....

Thanks Violet, and nice to see Aussies DO have a sense of humour as to the the trolls original inspiration... hehe!

Tests? I'm no animator but would happily give this guy away for anyone to play with. Going to finish the rigging first though.

06 June 2004, 07:32 PM
I dont know why, but i really like trolls ;) ! You should use him as your Avatar ! Together we will make the A:M forum X-Rated :)

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