View Full Version : 3DS MAX: keeping vertexes circular when shaping nose of aircraft

 Wolverine12304 April 2004, 05:22 PMhey. I got a question that needs an answer :) . When im modelling aircraft, i seem to be losing the circular shape of the fuselage when shaping the nose :( . Especially when i am making the outline from the front view, then i totally lose the perfect circle at the front of the aircraft :( . Sorry if anyone having trouble understanding what im saying, let me know and ill try to put it better :) . Thanks guys :)
Wolverine123
04 April 2004, 09:51 PM
30 views and no replys ???? . Cant some of you plane specialists like SkyRaider3D help me out here ???

Skyraider3D
04 April 2004, 12:47 AM

Well firstly it depends on what modelling technique you use. I assume you're using polymodelling+meshsmooth or similar? In this case it can indeed be tricky. Sometimes you need to over-correct a shape in low-poly form in order to have it the right shape after meshsmooth. Adding polygons in the trouble areas can help too. Always gauge your progress by inserting a circular spline where you want it to be round and adjust the vertices accordingly.

If this doesn't help, please show me a few cleas screenshots of what you're doing, as from your question was a bit difficult to understand were exactly it goes wrong :)

Wolverine123
04 April 2004, 09:54 AM
Thanks mate :) .

I have included a screenshot of my problem. When i shape the nose of the plane in each viewport, it goes completely off shape. Firstly i shape in the front, then the left, then the top viewport. I have selected the poly that is causing the trouble. Thanks alot :D

http://img44.photobucket.com/albums/v134/Wolverine123/nose_problem.jpg

StephanD
04 April 2004, 11:41 AM
I have included a screenshot of my problem. When i shape the nose of the plane in each viewport, it goes completely off shape

It's logical,you expect it to look good from the perspective BUT you're editing in the orthographic viewports.

the problem is the nose of your plane is an N-Gon and you cannot shape it in many different directions like you're trying to do right now.

You use max,so you'll have to use the Connect tool(or cut your choice) to separate the problematic polygon into separate QUADS(4 vertice/edged faces),THEN start shaping.

Just make an X Pattern or such and it should do.

Skyraider3D
04 April 2004, 12:34 PM
Wolverine, what you need to do is delete that offending polygon (as it's not gonna help you) and then start extruding edges instead. First create the intake and ignore the nose bomp. Simply make the top of the intaken nearly flat and closed. Then when the intake is done, start extruding and reshaping the nose cone polys.

At the moment you're trying to accomplish two tricky tasks at once, and it doesn't work. Try and break such trouble areas down in.

Best way to create the intake is to take the border left by the deleted polygon and shift-scale it down, then reshape to become the intake opening shape. Then take these newly created polygons and extrude them two or three times to form the rounded rim around the intake. Once done, you can resume with the nose cone (= radar dome).

I hope this helps.

PS. It may be a personal preference, but I find it much easier to use User viewports when modelling aircraft. Perspective viewports are very subjective and can make things look exaggerated. If you then try to fix this, the proportions of your model will be off. So I recommend using User viewports to get an accurate 3D projection of your model. It's also easier and quicker to navigate.

StephanD
04 April 2004, 12:52 PM
I believe this question has been talked alot in the past in here and AFAIK there has never been a definitive answer and never will.

Why?

Because the end result you wish to get to will dictate how object should be displayed in accordance to the camera's settings.

The camera with which a person's picture has been taken is likely to be different than the one in your software added with the focal distortion(??) of your own eyes it basically becomes a tedious technical task to follow every bit of an image curve by curve and so on.

Some of it has to come from your logic and/or your knolwedge of correct proportions, and editing in the 3D viewport is the closest you'll have to sculpting in the reality.

Wolverine123
04 April 2004, 01:07 PM
k thanks for the great info guys, ill get right on it :D

Skyraider3D
04 April 2004, 06:09 PM
StephanD - do you mean the Perspective versus User viewport debate?
With modelling aircraft it's not a matter of what looks right - it's a matter what is right, as the shapes of a plane are not ambiguous like the shapes of a character (character modellers often prefer perspective viewports, for some reason...) - you have to get the shapes of an airplane (or car or whatever real-life object) pretty close to 100% accurate, or else it will look wrong... Well... it's logical really :)

(I'm rambling, I know... ;))

Wolverine, I hope you'll manage! Show us some updates someday soon! :)

Wolverine123
04 April 2004, 06:53 PM
k i did the method where i extrude a cyclinder to form the fuselage :) . Seemed to work out pretty good for me. But i have another aircraft related question. When making the tail fin and wings, should i extrude them from the fuselage, chamfer the edges and then apply the MeshSmooth ???? . Or should i model seperately and then atach to the fuselage. Thanks for the help guys :)

I have included a render of what happens when i extrude the wings from the Fuselage, the polys seems to go wierd, take a look and lemme know what ya think :)

Wolverine123
04 April 2004, 06:57 PM
btw, this is a render of how far i have got so far :)

sorry for double post

Skyraider3D
04 April 2004, 07:00 PM
You have to build up a fillet between the fuselage and the wing first. A straight extrusion is not a good idea.

Wolverine123
04 April 2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Skyraider3D
You have to build up a fillet between the fuselage and the wing first. A straight extrusion is not a good idea.

Not quite sure what you mean sorry mate, im still pretty new to 3DSM :(

Skyraider3D
04 April 2004, 11:07 PM
A fillet is a part of an aircraft - not related to MAX :)
Here's an example:
http://www.russellw.com/planes/cruisemaster/wing_root_fillet.jpg

However in your case it's different. I did a search in Google and discovered the Sabre Dog doesn't have wingfillets at all, which makes your life a lot easier.
What you should just do is create the wings as seperate objects. Close the hole in your aircraft's fuselage (body) and make a new object for the wing. Same for the tail wings.

Maybe this will help too:
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/001-100/walk074_F-86/part1/walk074.htm

Good luck!

Wolverine123
04 April 2004, 12:44 AM
yeah i think im gunna have trouble with them fillets :P . Thanks very much for taking the time to search for some info for me :D . Ill do some more work tomorrow when i get hom efrom work and ill try and post an update. Thanks :D

Wolverine123
04 April 2004, 10:58 PM
k i have run into yet another problem. Im not sure how i should make the wings. At the moment i am using just a box, but im not sure if i should use a cyclinder like i did on my previous Spitfire :hmm: . I can shape the wing pretty easily, but creating the edges is hard :( im not sure how i should do it. I have included a render of how i have done it so far :) . Skyraider3D, would it be posible at all i you could tell me how you shape your wings, but if you dont want to let out your secrets its np mate. Sorry for being such a pain in the a\$\$ now with all my"i cant do this" posts, just really wanna model aircraft :P . Thanks mate

Skyraider3D
04 April 2004, 04:09 PM
Wings are easy, just extrude a wing-profile shaped spline, then build the end on top of it by extruding and scaling.
Put 3 vertices on the rear corner of the wing profile, all roughly at the same position, so it stays sharp after meshsmooth.

Wolverine123
04 April 2004, 06:34 PM
k thanks mate ill get right on it and give it a shot :D

Opeth
04 April 2004, 05:46 PM
i didn't read all the posts so sorry if i reply something that was already said - but you can always select you loop of vertexes and use the spherify modifier - then collapse it back to mesh. works like a charm - or better still - works like a spherify modifier applied to a loop of vertexes.. :)

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