View Full Version : Village Need somthin

04 April 2004, 04:39 AM
Ok poeple I made this I am only a newbie with around 2 weeks experiance I wanted this to give people a Nice feeling like the sort of feeling of when you see the sunset or when you look up at the stars on a clear night the girls will know what i am talking about I am a 15 yeah old guy so i really have know idea on what it needs here you go

by the way it was made in maya If anyone has any technical info or tip on what it need they would be very appreciated to

thanks all :D

04 April 2004, 02:44 PM
The sea is really stormy, i don't think that fits the mood of looking up to the stars you want to achieve :)

There are some technical problems and lack of detail, the composition is not so interesting and the design of the houses is a bit too simple in some places.

It seems to me you're going for a 'mood' picture, which means the light and composition will be very important.

My suggestion is to focus on just a few houses, make the light resemble a sunset and add more detail to the houses and give them some nice attributes, for example maybe the trees have flowers and you see petals glistening in the sunset.

Hope this helps, i usually don't make environments only characters ^0^

04 April 2004, 11:02 PM
OK here is an update on what I have got so far I am still working on it in terms of working out what else it need here it is

04 April 2004, 12:13 AM
25 plus views and no comments come on people :(

04 April 2004, 09:28 AM
A comment is usually per about 100 views here, unless you're lucky hehe ;)

The light is better, but the composition is still lacking, all the houses look the same and are about the same size, which makes it quite boring from a composition point of view. I'd play around with the camera a bit and see if you can come up with a more interesting angle :)

04 April 2004, 06:18 PM
it's going better, but i would show more sky and less sea - ground, maybe around a proportion of 3/4 or so... i think that could make it look more peaceful,
oh, and that big "flash"... mmm... staring at the sun is not like a nice feeling to me... maybe there is too much rays-lens flare-whatever, but the lighting is better than in the first pic, has more mood...
good luck!

T Bomb
04 April 2004, 11:21 PM
Dummy down the lens flare first off... its good but i think it takes away. Next you should add maybe a boat or 2 tied to the docks. Then you should put some stuff on the docks themselves. Maybe some crates or barrels. If you gonna do a night or evening shot lets put up some torches and see some fire and lighting.

Just my 2 cents

04 April 2004, 02:13 AM
Hey thanks I am workin on it right now should have another update later on today I will try all the stuff you guys have said thanks everyone for your comments they help a lot

04 April 2004, 11:35 AM
Update!! here ya go Comments please everyone :D

T Bomb
04 April 2004, 12:58 PM
See now that looks MUCH better. I like the sun in the back like that how its going down. Maybe move the sun to the right or left a bit...just to keep it interesting hahaha. Also the crate farthest to the left needs to be put on the dock better, it looks as if I can see right under it. And not to sound like a jerk but maybe fix the textures on the huts... give them more of a grassy look.

Keep up the good work!

04 April 2004, 12:11 AM
I must admit that I didn't like the direction the second image was taking. It just seemed too bland with blue skies, blue water, and white lighting. The latest image is a definite improvement, but mr.wheels could push the imagery farther...

I actually like the simplicity of the models. There's a certain quaint quality about it that reminds me of dioramas and stop-motion animation sets. There are a few discrepancies that seem confusing to me such as the inconsistant scale between certain objects (I'm comparing the boats and the doorways of the huts, and the boats look too big for the imaginary inhabitants), but I can overlook those problems for now.

The fewer huts makes a difference for the better in the latest image, but the arrangement is still bland because it looks so mechanical. If you looked at the picture from the other side of the room, you can see that the upper half of the picture is more interesting because there's plenty of variation even though the rooftops are similar. However, the lower half of the picture is a different story. The most striking element in the lower half is the boardwalk between the buildings, and it looks very straight and flat. The straightness is not a problem by itself, but the boardwalk looks parallel to the horizon, and that's boring composition. How can this be fixed? Probably by angling one of the boardwalk toward the camera (Move the end of one boardwalk that is off-screen closer to the camera).

The huts on the both ends suffer from lining up with the horizon, but the leftmost hut is the most noticeable offender because of the strong contrast between the white glare bouncing off the water lining up with the bottom of that hut. The rightmost hut can be left alone, but the leftmost one should be adjusted higher or lower so that it's no longer even with the horizon.

I like the addition of grass (although the jury is still out on whether it makes sense or not) because it looks visually interesting, but the patch of grass in the lower right corner lines up vertically with the edge of the picture, so it's distracting if you notice it. Mess up the straight edge of that grass patch, and it should look better.

A minor detail that should be fixed are the barrels on the left side of the picture. I can tell that they're not touching the boardwalk because the light on the water is showing under them. Another minor detail to fix is the rightmost hut which doesn't look like it's in contact with its floor.

Again, inconsistency is spoiling the picture here. The boardwalk has a wonderful texture, although it could use stains at the water level, but let's address the main issue here. In comparision to the boardwalk, the huts look undertextured. The colors are nice, but there's no indication of what sort of construction material was used. I think you can get away with the plain walls for now, but you should concentrate on adding some sort of bump or displacement map on the roofs so that they don't look so smooth.

I can see that there are still veins in the green leaves on the rooftops, but they don't do much. To make them do more, two things could be done. The top sides of the leaves should be shinier than the bottom side, so the specular setting needs to be bumped up for one side if you can figure that out. A bump map would be nice too. If you're using an image file for the color map, just plug the same image into the bump map, and that should be a good start.

Without a shoreline as a point of reference, the vertical water ripples look really weird to me. If the ripples were rotated about 90 degrees so that they run horizontal, that might look better. Be careful about the scale. You want the faraway ripples to be tinier than the closeup ripples. If there's not much difference, then it'll betray the size of the other models in the picture.

This seems to be the biggest problem with all three images. There wasn't a strong light source in the first picture. There was an overhead light, but it seemed to make the picture dull because of the interaction (or the lack of...) between the color, the composition, and lack of textures. Then a strong light source was added in the second picture, but a lens flare was also added, which is now one of those no-no's in good computer graphics. The ambient lighting in the second picture was way too strong. When you have too much ambient light, things look flatter which makes them look boring. So you want a happy medium where there's some dark parts for visual contrast and some ambient lighting to help define shapes and give them dimension.

The lighting in the latest picture takes a step in the right direction and makes things look more dramatic. The yellow sunlight is a great improvement, though a bit unrealistic... If you've watched sunsets, you'd probably remember that the sun is not so white-bright when it's that low on the horizon because the sunlight is refracting through a thicker layer of atmosphere than it does during the midday. I don't know if it's intentional or not, but there's a nice bloom in this pic (you can see it where the silohuette of the leaves are yellow instead of black in front of the sun). The more I think about it, the more I think that it's a happy accident of glow settings. ;)

The biggest flaw in the third picture's lighting is that the sun is not centered over the glare on the water. All the shadows of the upright poles converge on a point that's to the left and below the sun. I can see a soft glow emitting from that point, so it looks like you're using two light sources...

I can tell that shadow-casting was turned off on the key light (the strongest light) because the floors inside the huts are well-lit. This is the same problem with the first picture. Sure, there could be lights inside the huts, but it wouldn't that strong or the same color. Plus there's nothing inside the huts. If you want to hide the lack of furnishing inside the huts, it's best to turn on shadow casting, or better yet, texture the floors a dark color. A few of the objects added in the third picture don't cast shadows, namely the barrels on the boardwalk near the center of the picture and the boat on the right.

The ambient lighting in the third picture is an improvement, but I'm not completely happy with it. Since the amibent light is coming from the right side of the picture, the left sides of the huts are flattened because they're completely in shadows. A possible solution is adding a dimmer ambient light (that's not white) coming in from the left side of the picture to help define the roundness of the huts. Taking cues from the sky texture, maybe you should use purple-colored or orange-colored ambient lights. The missing shadows where the hut walls meet the roofs still need to be addressed, but let's see if the other stuff improve the picture.

For two weeks of experience with Maya, I like it, so I'm looking forward to seeing improvement in your future renders. Good luck!

04 April 2004, 06:30 AM
OK here ya go

(Pomru) thankyou for all the advice its the best i have got from any forum I am a member of thanks to to your suggestions the scene looks a lot better (i think) you are obviously a pro either that or you have a lot of experience in this field either way your advice has proved invaluably thankyou for taking the time to wright that reply)

thanks to everyone else to I took all your suggestions into account and added them into the scene anything else it needs please let me know


04 April 2004, 08:55 AM
Whoops sorry the image link broke


04 April 2004, 11:16 AM
Hey mr wheels looks awesome man! mayb you could improve the end of the sea a bit, so it looks like it doesnt end but the textures on it look very cool! Try not to compress the images too much when ya turn m into jpg. For such fiew maya experiance its really cool man! keep it up.

Frank Dodd
04 April 2004, 12:15 PM
very impressive reply Pomru there was a short novella in there :)

Its a very nice first image, I think Pomru's comment on the lack of shadowing highlights the most prominent flaw in the image, it appears almost full bright where the huts don't cast any shadows into their interiors or across the cat walks outside.

Second to this I think the texturing on the roofs of the huts needs the most work a more detailed thatched grass texture would probably suffice for the moment.

Finally some sort of fogging into the distance would be good to break up the very sharp horizon that makes it look like its only a few meters away.

Great starter into 3D you certainly have the fundamentals coming along nicely.

04 April 2004, 01:12 PM
heh anyone know where i can get a thatcht grass roof texture and BUMP map ??? I shore could use one

T Bomb
04 April 2004, 01:34 PM
(Mr Wheels) You could get a picture of the grass you want off google and bring it into photoshop and possibly make the bump map yourself. It wouldn't hurt, the more experience the better. The sooner you do that the better your hutts will look... cause the roofs look sorta like cookies.. no offense hehe.

Also, do you think maybe you could put in a hint of a haze on the horizon or somthing... ya know.. to make it blend into the sky better rather then just an edge?

Keep up the awesome work man. I wish I had this much help w/ my frist 3d project

04 April 2004, 02:06 PM
I think this piece is becoming much more evocative, congratulations seeing as this is your first 3d scene :)

The main things that hit me are the simplicity of the models and textures, i would focus on those - making elements more individual, as it looks like there's a lot of duplicated models in here.

I recently found some pictures of a trip i made to Belize MANY years ago, check a few out, they may help set your scene.

Hope that helps, good luck and stick with it!


04 April 2004, 03:43 AM
OK here is Another update i think the textureon the huts is as good as it is gonna get i experimented for a few hours with textures And this was the best i could come up with I even found a thatched roof texture but it wasn't lookin to crash hot I made some of the huts look different to add character to it all So here it is

T Bomb
04 April 2004, 04:38 AM
Lookin good... I would just actually model a wrecked boat if it was me. If ya don't wanna just take it out. Its gettin there, keep it up.

04 April 2004, 02:44 PM
Two things right off: the sun is way too big and bright; I think you're looking for a relaxed feel to the pic, and this is too intense. Make a small, reddish glow around the sun perhaps with a small lensflare, and make it smaller.
The other thing is the perspectives, as in foreground vs background.
I would really try to put one hut up front, so it looks like you're actually part of the pic, and put in something in the background, Maybe a small island or a mountain chain.
Right now it looks flat, and it looks like "the islands at the end of the world":)
I would also make the bridges a bit more rickety and "home made", but thats taste again..

04 April 2004, 04:07 PM
Right Im not sure im gonna be liked much after this...but after all this is meant to be the Serious Critique section..

Firstly I'd like to say to the creator that this maybe a bit harsh..but if you are serious about CG then you should listen and abovve all not take it personally.

Presumably from the image you are fairly new to this...and for starters you show promise but if you want to improve you need to......wait for it.......

basically you need to start again, the image is garish, bare, primitive. The texturing and lighting is poor and the modelling very basic. Now please bare in mind that this is all part of the learning curve and certainly NOT saying you are no good at fact I'm sure once you have spent some time learning the different techniques you will be very good at it..

I think you are trying to do too much at one time, and consequently making a little mess. Take it slowly, stage by stage....create a new more detailed hut, making sure you have modelled it correctly, i.e bevels etc.

Take some time in learning how to apply UV maps and textures correctly...make sure the colour work together...use reference if you aint sure.

Practice lighting a single hut on its own, to get a feel for how you want it to look, as well as making sure the textures work.

Learn to blend in the sky and sea better..instead of having a seriously harsh line...

You have chosen to have a real wide camera angle which means naturally the scene looks bare and the models look obviously duplicated...change the texures slightly....

think about what needs to be in the scene....the reeds in the sea just dont make sense or look right....I think you are just trying to cram too much in.

Obviously theres a lot more to learn and do....check out tutorial sites to get tips....and remember to take it one stage at a time, don't rush. Please don't let this message dishearten you, my early stuff was equally requiring improvement.

Now a quick message to the other people who commented...
I presume this section of the forum is under the SERIOUS just commenting saying its "awesome" is not going to do the guy any favours what so ever...if you think this image was awesome then you comments are really not relevant...keep em to the normal critique section...

I know this will get yours backs up...but come on, really ..judges need to be people who have the experience to give a good critique otherwise this whole section is pointless.

04 April 2004, 11:38 PM
Ahhh thanks I think....................................... I will start over "damn" I might just build one hut and make it very very detailed along with a few other bits and pieces thanks for the novel I..I mean comments

04 April 2004, 01:32 AM
nice work dude,

The real glaring issue (pun intended har har har) is those highlights man I mean I understand the whole sunshine thing. really wow I mean its a good pic but really have you or i ever seen a sunset with that ammount of glare on the water? really I would bring that down.

Also since this is evocative, you might want to evoke something. Right now its kinda evoking that good old MINE EYES ARE BURNING.. sorry bad attempt at humor don't think thats a flame its really not.. oh god not more puns flame glare geez its like I need my eyes washed out... wow washed out good god I am on a role.

Neways I like the pic man just if you brought the glare or highlights on the water down a tad you might be able to bring more color into it. Right now the white is dominating your picture. When I think of islands and fat lil polynasians (sp) in huts I can't really see white washed out you might just want to add some reds and yellows in to that you know the stuff you see on picture post cards.

After all those pictures are taken with the intent of evoking something right? just my two cents.

To make this brief, white isn't evoking the feeling that you want. Okay the feeling that i THINK you want lol i mean you are the artist its all up to you in the long run don;t forget I am only a poster and a pretty crappy artist lol.

neways see ya dude

04 April 2004, 02:36 AM
Here are some improvements you could myke to your images. These comment only apply to modeling.

First, all your huts are copies or look really like they are. Huts are builds by men with material from the wild, there should be some differences between each huts, even if they have the genaral same shape. You could add details to all of them or simply modify them a bit. For example, rotate the tree so that it is not faceing in the same direction on all the huts. You could also add some simple randomization by pulling and pushing some vertices a bit so that the surface is not perfect. Nothing has a perfect shape ! By varying a little bit scales and translate of your object you can also add some more natural feeling.

Same for all the objects. Of course don't do this on all the decks, but you could can simply select some random a pieces and scale them and rotate them a bit, it will do the trick.
If you are patient enough, through modeling you can tell a lot. They is a lot of "image strenght" in the amount of detail you give to your models. This does not always mean high polygon count, with simple tricks (investigate instancing).

And oh, a non modeling thing, you model in maya, you have a powerful virtual camera and you can take images with it, an unlimited amount. I should advise you to use it to compose your scene, make it more iteresting simply by putting the point of view somewhere else. As it was said before try the foreground-background thing, to add depth and interest.

good luck and courage, it will be getting better each time.

04 April 2004, 02:04 PM
OK here it is please people wait for an update before posting any more comments than the last All you are doing is repeating what the last person has written (most of the time) now there are some really good comments here but when one person after another writes comment after comment its get a little bit stressfull now here is an update critisize away

Frank Dodd
04 April 2004, 05:54 PM
This is a huge improvment now, I think what this needs now is a bit of ambient light to represent lighting from the sky and sea. The dark side of the hut is unnaturally dark.

04 April 2004, 06:32 AM
Here is a small update don't know If this makes it better but at least now you can see the cloth door to the hut that I actually modeled

Frank Dodd
04 April 2004, 08:48 AM
No I think you have gone a step backwards here by over illuminating the scene with ambient lighting and killing your shadows again.

Here is a quick example of what I meant: -

You can see that the ambient lighting is very subtle and the stronger direct lighting casts shadows that give the contact between the water and the hut.

04 April 2004, 11:19 AM
Did you actually model that ? just as an example for me ?? well even if you didn't thanks for the tips I will work on it right now

Frank Dodd
04 April 2004, 07:09 PM
Yep it was just a quicky I put together based on analytical objects. Good luck with your lighting tests, once your happy I would suggest taking a look at the walls and the roof of the hut, perhaps making them appear much more thatched. I certainly think its worth working through on this image there is a lot more you can learn from it.

04 April 2004, 11:25 PM
Yeah I really need to work on the texture of the hut the hardest this is trying to find a good texture I really don't want to use paint effects or fur effects so does anyone no of a good shader or even a good texture ?? thats the biggest problem it looks too much like clay that has been moulded into the shape of thatched straw :(

04 April 2004, 02:10 AM
sorry I will help you on this one ...(I think I am a rather poor texturer) but I will share some of my modest experience. That is to say, finding an average texture and modifying it so it fits your style is a good way to go if you have trouble doing your own texture/shader. But avoid using them with default setups, you should always add your touch (could be trying a parameter and going back to the default value by hand, not entering value, maya is full of sliders and tools to help you in that ( you can select a channel on the right hand list and modify the value by clicking on the viewport with interactive feedback)).

Then you should go by steps. Yeah I know you want to make a cool image quickly. But if you go through each logical steps you will see an improvement in your work. It is good to start with modeling and producing some images without any artifices, only the modeling and some lights to see something. Are you positively sure the model you have is the final one? It can be very tedious to work on materials if you have to transform the model during (or worst after) the texturing phase.
If it is then keep on texturing, but remember that your materials and textures depend on the modeling, modify the model and most of the time the materials and textures will have to be check or corrected, it can be a lot of time waste. try to plan ahead a bit.

Paint effect could be very nice, but doing it with textures will be more rewarding, paint effect brushes are so full of parameters, it is easy to use a lot of time and not succeed. Try first with textures.

You could try to make a bunch of transparent shapes, pile them up and acchive a some tricky thing. Okay, let think about it. How are the hut built, over there i think with some dead palms or somethink. You could model every bits. But you could also try some texture/modeling thing. I hope you can follow my idea for the roof (but I do not have access to maya now so ask for more precise informations):
-we will try the nurbs, as simple shapes are easier to texture than polygons
-leave the orginal roof there as a guide (make a new layer, move the model there and change the layer mode to reference (R))
-model a disk(2 circle nubrs lofted), -translate the splines together so they rest at the base of the orginal roof. -Translate and scale the splines to make the lofted surface mimick a small (~15%) part of the original roof. You could also build a nubrs cone with carefull creation parameters, but it is to be tried.
-Duplicate the surface 6 times so the surface overlap some (30-65%) and scale down going to the roof top.
- Find a simple palm texture or photo, look in visor
- Modify this image as much as you want but it as to be black and white showing only a palm leaf (the leaf general shape, white, the rest, black), we will use it as a mask
- create a new material (try phong).
- in the phong transparency add the palm mask by importing the b/w plm image file.
- in the phong color channel, add a 2d fractal, texture parameters are to numberous for me right now, but try to have a small pattern with colors matching dead palms (yellowish...)
- apply this texture to all the roof pieces
- modify the 2dtextureUV attributes so that you have a lot of repeats in the pattern and try some randomness
- bring back the orginal roof by unreferencies it's layer
- apply phong to orignial roof.
- move the camera to have a closer look at the roof (optional remove shadows from lights)
- IPR test it. Okay, hum, you should see some patterns repeated on each disk that are partial transparent now. Combining those patterns together could make a cool quick "dead palm stacked" like roof.
- you should tweak the fractal pattern and colors (. Add bump, reverse specularity, modify the various 2dtextureUV parameter one at a time to see how they influence the genral view of the object (the mesh of the pattern must be fine enough to let some air and light pass, but dense enough to provide protection...)
Well you now have a lot of possibilities to improve this. Add more disks, modify each disk so that it isn't flat and reacts to light in an intersting way. Use pieces of disks to simulate more layers of palms, a lot to tweak in the textures (layered textures, various masks, various UV coordinates through switches...), add some density to the models with displacement, tweak your rendering so that each palm produces it's own shadow(raytracing), etc...
You could try this on the whole hut for a more "hairy" look. And later, with some deformers on the disks you could animate the palms reacting to wind or something...
This opacity use of masks is very frequent in cg as it helps use few polygons to produce complex shapes, flat but complex. It is used a lot in games (trees?), when you have to use real pictures for integration or look (architectural cg often have one poly characters), maya sprite particle types, and a lot of hair renderings.

good luck and keep the updates
p.s. write me an e-mail if you want more precise help
i need sleep...

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