View Full Version : Timeless Message, Therion (3D)

02 February 2004, 03:48 PM (

Image name: Timeless Message (or small bed)

Modeled in Alias MAYA 5.0, rendered with final gathering,enchanced with Adobe Photoshop CS.
Image is created as a work for Alias Training Centre "CHIRON" in central Europe.
Any comment would be very helpfull, so please feel free to post comments.

Words always exists between reality and eternity. Writen word concerning emotion is always a, timeless message...

Peter Lalic

02 February 2004, 03:52 PM
I love the soft feel to the image,did you use much radiosity or did you fake it,anyway it's a great piece and it looks like the kind of room and bed I could sleep in for days as it has that warm cosy feel to it.


02 February 2004, 04:38 PM
Wow, that's a very nice piece indeed. I love the contrast between the lit area on the bed and the indirectly lit surroundings.

My only crit is that it's way too tacky for my taste, but you obviously aimed for this so no crits there.

Great stuff!!

02 February 2004, 04:41 PM
Wow good room rendering^_^~~~I hope I could sleep there.;)

02 February 2004, 05:14 PM
hey nice picture,
you´ve got a nice feeling going on here :)

the fabric textures are realy great.

02 February 2004, 08:00 PM
Only the rose gave it away, this is some really good work. How on earth did you get the fabric to fold like that? it's perfect! As long as there aren't any closeups of the desks (which look slightly off somehow) and you take out the flower, i'd dare say this scene would be indistiguishable from a real hotel room.

In fact, i'd like to request you post the wireframe of this scene so we can see that this is actually all modelled ;)
(unless you did, that first picture doesn't load)

all it's missing is the mint on the pillow!

02 February 2004, 01:21 AM
Very lovely lighting and texturing. =)

02 February 2004, 02:02 AM
love the lighting and the soft ambience to this peice. simply amazing :thumbsup:

02 February 2004, 02:07 AM
Great picture, The soft image is nice, but I would love to see one with out it, just for comparison. Great lighting!

02 February 2004, 02:31 AM
Wow. Very nice pic. Looks very cozy. The bed covers are awesome, the lighting is awesome. The only thing that looks fake is the rose. Too transluscent. Also, i think it might add just a little to the image if there was something on one of the tables, maybe a book, or a clock. Very inspiring! :thumbsup:

02 February 2004, 02:03 PM
Great feeling and warmth in the picture!

Did you use maya cloth to the fabrics? If you did, how did you manage to look so thick? Usually maya cloth looks very thin.

Five stars from me! :applause:

02 February 2004, 03:00 PM
WOW! Love the atmosphere. Top job! :applause:

02 February 2004, 03:15 PM
Very nice, of course. Only thing that jumps to my eye is the pillows. They dont look quite right; perhaps it's a lack of small wrinkles in the edges of their surfaces.

02 February 2004, 04:15 PM
Very nice work, photorealistic for sure, i can't see the 1st pic tho.

[plugged on the front page]

02 February 2004, 04:18 PM
Yes its really photorealistic, but the rose breaks the reality a little.

02 February 2004, 04:38 PM
Could you post non edited and photoshop edited image? I also want to learn to look things, like the light on the bed so shiny...

02 February 2004, 05:16 PM
Looks just real !

02 February 2004, 05:19 PM
Congrats, nice work. Those lamps look great. If you want to make it more photo real I would lower the FOV on the camera lens. As you know when you take a photo in a room you can't always get everthing in the shot. The way it is now the window and picture frame are way too distorted. Also I would make the baseboards, where the floor meets the wall, better. Overall great work.

02 February 2004, 05:22 PM
I am sure the rose was the last thing you put into your scene, Since it is not realistic looking, you need to be more careful of what flower you pick. Also lower the bump on the pillow near the flower, not the bump map but the actual pillow. Your selection of material and everything else is superb.

02 February 2004, 06:03 PM
Looks great to me, but the way the room is set up reminds me of a hotel room.

02 February 2004, 06:03 PM
wow man!

This is very photorealistic!! :thumbsup: Congrat! :beer:

02 February 2004, 06:07 PM
Very nice image.

However, it is not photorealistic. The lack of dynamic lighting contrast, the shadowing, the GI grain on the walls - all of these things pull it away from photorealism.

Photoreal is what it says - that one cannot (or has extreme difficulty) in determining if the image is a photo. This image is quite pleasing, but it doesn't look like a photograph.

Not trying to sound harsh - but just saying "dude! you own! :buttrock: " won't help anyone improve. ;)


02 February 2004, 06:33 PM
Great lighting, gives the image a very nice atmosphere. :thumbsup:

02 February 2004, 06:59 PM
Everything in the image is fantastic except one thing. It looks like the proportions on everything are waaay off. I don't know if you wanted it that way or not but stuff like the rose and the window definitely look like they need some shrinking. Other than that, excellent work!

02 February 2004, 07:15 PM
Just love it :) Thats Great:thumbsup:

02 February 2004, 07:34 PM
Very nice work, amazingly photoreal. The rose is the only thing that gives it away, I think its just the petals they need to be a tiny bit more shiny. But love the cosy warm atmosphere, well done :)

02 February 2004, 07:42 PM
Hey ! nice picture ! :beer:

Good lighting and texturing ! I

I suppose modeling too but i need to see more...

02 February 2004, 07:45 PM
gr8t image dude, u should only change t rose

02 February 2004, 07:50 PM
You should have posted it here earlier. However, I've said this before and I'll say it again. This is a fantastic render, no crits, it's amazing! :thumbsup:

02 February 2004, 07:53 PM
Nice picture, I like it!

especially the little details on the venetian blinds, where the last one hangs at an angle.

Cozy, and warm.

Now give us a wire! :D

02 February 2004, 08:04 PM
Cool render!

Have to agree with the rest about the rose.

I also think the glow is a bit overdone. If you reduce it a little, the image will have a better impact I think. Currently it is a bit dreamy and unfocused with such high level of glow.

02 February 2004, 08:25 PM
Fino, fino, samo tako.

Nice work, can we see wire? :)

02 February 2004, 08:51 PM

but thats the BIGGEST Rose I ever seen.

Must be close to 3 foot long.

02 February 2004, 09:21 PM
Very nice image, generally the scale looks fine, just a nice big window, rose does look a tiny bit large however but the rest is just great.

jos Hec
02 February 2004, 09:51 PM
it's a great image , i love ambience but i think you should have a closer look to the proportions , the bed is to small relative to the rest of the scene and maybe if you reduce a bit the rose would be great .

in spite all that , great work with the lights

02 February 2004, 10:28 PM
Wow -- the mood in this picture is fantastic, which makes all minor flaws forgivable, as "artistic license". ;)

I love the glow, the blinds, the bedsheets, the picture on the wall -- hell, I love the walls too.

And I never saw it as a big rose, I just think it's a really small bed. ;) Anyway, I bet it's enlarged to be noticed, since it's obiously a major theme in the picture.

Bottomline, I love it all. :thumbsup:

- Jonas

02 February 2004, 12:20 AM
Wow. talk about photoreal. Pity about the hokey 80's soft focus and the nanna style bodouir. :D That rose is seriously screwy though. Its HUGE.

02 February 2004, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by Therion
Modeled in Alias MAYA 5.0, rendered with final gathering,enchanced with Adobe Photoshop CS.
Image is created as a work for Alias Training Centre "CHIRON" in central Europe.

You meant just final gathering? If you didn't use photons, could you please share your FG and shaders experiences? Some clues would be great. And if it doesn't looks realistc, it certainly looks expressive and yet natural, so it's good, right?

That blanket (I hope I meant the thing we use to keep us warm) is really warm, great shadding.

As stated before, the scene looks real but fells odd, unproportional, little weirdness. For me having absolutely nothing between bed and wall for the heads is really disturbing. Culture maybe.

Blanket is really good (just wanted to say it loud for myself again).

02 February 2004, 12:52 AM
Very nice. Has a soft and sad feel to it. I'm guessing that's a letter asking for forgiveness. :p


02 February 2004, 01:08 AM
Hot damn! :eek: My comments are uh, unnecessary. Incredible work. Especially the lamps.

02 February 2004, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by ivankio
You meant just final gathering? If you didn't use photons, could you please share your FG and shaders experiences? Some clues would be great. And if it doesn't looks realistc, it certainly looks expressive and yet natural, so it's good, right?

FG is just simplyfied photon maping... For that smooth result I guess you'll need quality od 800-1000 samples, and litle bit more light than 1.

Hope it helps!

02 February 2004, 11:32 AM

This image rocks!


02 February 2004, 12:18 PM
First of all thank you very much for your comments, it is so helpful to me. I agree with all of you that proportions in my scene are a little "odd", because I tried to pay attention to warmth of the scene and I scale models a little bit to create feeling of small and innocent atmosphere all around. I realize now that this was too much, and balance between good result and faking in proportions is now disturbed. A rose is the final thing modeled before final render, and I thought that I would be able to shade it in Photoshop better and to add translucence in post production because of quicker rendering process, but this is best for now.
Your comments help me a lot, and be sure that I will pay attention much more on this lack of quality in my future artworks.
Now, if you are interested, here is how I created a scene:

Stage 1- Modeling (basic modeling with nurbs (UBS) and polygonal planes for cloth purposes.)
Stage 2- Texturing and Shading (I was trying to achieve a difference between a thick and fat blanket using two identical planes. I manage to do that with nice color and bump maps created in Photoshop, and you can see the difference)
Stage 3 - Basic Final Gathering (I used just one light source (Directional light with additional photon emission), with Final Gathering but without Global illumination and Caustic offcourse.)
Stage 4 - Window shadow render (I needed a little bit more define shadow for window, so I made an extra render just for this purposes with depthmap shadow casting and Maya Software Render.)
Stage 5 - DirtMap Render (I used DirtMap shader as choice to fake Ambient occlusion and for additional "dirt" all around scene, and for combination with Final Gathering shadows for realistic shadows.)
Stage 6 - Final Touch (I blended different renders in one -Basic Final Render,Window Shadow Render,DirtMap Render. Than I corrected shadows and specularity here and there with a burn and dodge tool. I colorize scene with a warm colors but with desaturation for realistic appearance.I added exterior through window hole exported as Alpha Channel from Maya Render. And finally I added a bit of glow for atmosphere and dream-like feeling.

I hope that this will do to you, but if you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask me.
Thank you again for your helpful comments.

Sincerely yours,
Peter Lalic

02 February 2004, 03:27 PM
True of lighting result!

02 February 2004, 03:57 PM
Looks great. Nice feel to it.

02 February 2004, 04:11 PM
i like it, but the rose trully needs to be smaller.

svaka cast, brate Petere ;)

02 February 2004, 06:19 PM
Once again, bravo majstore.:beer:

02 February 2004, 07:35 PM
Says so much! All in one picture! Very pretty.;)

02 February 2004, 08:09 PM
Excellent. And a very useful process description. Very much appreciated.

02 February 2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Pookie_mad
FG is just simplyfied photon maping... For that smooth result I guess you'll need quality od 800-1000 samples, and litle bit more light than 1.

Originally posted by Therion
Stage 3 - Basic Final Gathering (I used just one light source (Directional light with additional photon emission), with Final Gathering but without Global illumination and Caustic offcourse.)

Thanks, I thought it could be other lights also, or some incandescent materials. But Therion said it was just 1 light, with photons emission BUT no GI or caustics. I thought that that photons option were just for them.
I don't see any diference when I turn on photons without GI or caustics.
Therion, how does FG bounce that much in your scene? I don't seem to get no bounce more than 1. Does it have something to do with the light's photon emission option?

Also, do you usually customize mentalRay's attributes in the shaders, or do you use just Maya options?

Edit: I think I should ask (and say very sorry for using your post): how do I change final gathering reflect trace depth?

02 February 2004, 09:18 PM
Very pretty. I love the softness of the image. I think that rose is a bit big though.
And thanks for the rendering tutorial. It helps out people like me a lot to see the thought process. I owe you a drink :beer:

02 February 2004, 11:11 PM
Dear Ivankio,
I just used one directional light with a value of 1, and a bit of more photon emission value, about 950-1000 for Final Gathering purposes.Mental ray use photons in any case where you have bouncing photons just like Global Illumination, Final Gathering, Caustic or Ambient Occlusion.I didn't use Global Illumination because I like to get a just a little of that effect, so it is better to fake it in Photoshop a little and get faster render for the same goal.I didn't use caustic also, just because I don't have any object requiring caustic in this scene. You can see that in the basic render image is still a little "dark" but I was careful, that zones I need for refining in postproduction, not to be absolute black.DirtMap or fake Ambient Occlusion help me to get details in darker areas of the scene without loosing my bumpiness or original color, so image appear lighter later on Stage 6 without losing pecisious details.I customize shaders for Mental Ray when I need to do that, every material have his own light bouncing value proportional to his specularity,reflectivity and color.You can set this for individual shader in his Irradiance and Irradiance color under mental ray tab in attribute editor (this option is very helpfull for HDRI renders).
Maybe I was wrong for some of those things, and maybe someone knows better aproach for acomplishing same result.
Anyhow I hope that I manage to help you with some qestions.

I forget to mention a few things, so I am using this post to do that.
Because this scene is meant to be one of the final exercises in Alias training center "CHIRON" in Belgrade, Serbia & Montenegro; most of the work on this image I created in "CHIRON"-s classroom.
I wanted to experiment with some additional things such as Photoshop, DirtMap and Cloth, and those parts of the scene I created at "KOMPANI" production company where I work, because I have some free time to use between professional projects at work.
I would like to thank all personnel in "CHIRON", but especially to brilliant Peter Bakic who guided me wisely trough creation of this beautiful image.
Experience and knowledge I got in "CHIRON" help me to visualize universe of possibility working with 3D package such as Alias Maya.
I keep in mind all of your comments, and I will try to be more accurate in my future projects presented here.
So, the bottom line is that, the more we share knowledge with each other, the more we learn how to become more creative and to realize that nothing is impossible.

Sincerely yours,
Peter Lalic

02 February 2004, 03:38 AM

just want to say thank you for your explications, the way you've take for the window's shadow is intresting, the result is very good.


02 February 2004, 04:28 AM

I just have a question about your dirtmap render. In your step by step pic you have a lambert on all materials. Did you bring that lambert render (w/dirtmap) in PS and combine in there(possibly using screen mode) im just curious as to why none of the grey shows up.

02 February 2004, 07:13 AM
no ,I don't think this pic is great enough to get 4 stars ~~~~~no :(

the reason:

the scale is unreal looklike . look at the bed and the flower on it .so,don't you think that the flower is too big ?? or the bed and the rooms are too small ?? and the window, don't you think that the shutter is too ....... I don't know how to say it .but I realy think that scale is not good .


02 February 2004, 08:45 AM
Ok, Tierackk the thing is:

Material on all of my models in scene was DirtMap connected trough output value to Lambert's color channel. You must render this scene with just default mental ray to get this result.Later on I combined this "gray" render with a actual render in Adobe Photoshop using multiply mode, but screen mode appear to be as much as good too.There you can play with contrast and brightness on DirtMap render layer, and by doing this you can fully control size of shadows and intensity in your scene.
I hope that I manage to help you with this post.

Best wishes,
Peter Lalic

03 March 2004, 11:44 PM
awesome. strange lamps tho.... why does one extend and the other does not?

03 March 2004, 01:49 PM
nice work~~~
a warm feeling and great image there~~
and your making of this image really helps me a lot~~~
keep great work~~~:thumbsup:

03 March 2004, 12:03 AM
I get really nice feeling from this image. I like it.

09 September 2004, 01:00 PM
Brilliant Work!

09 September 2004, 02:23 PM
Brilliant Work!

07 July 2005, 02:56 PM
e svaka ti cast!
(samo sledeci put pusti ono "somewhere in Central Europe"
nije bre to Kazahstan)

09 September 2005, 01:52 PM
Great work. I like the lighting effects that make the sunshine on the bed. Maybe you could add items to the nightstands to make it seem more realistic.

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