XM Magdalena 3D print, GGeorgy (3D)
LC #42 Pipers Alley

View Full Version : tutorials: random tutorials

01-25-2004, 04:51 AM
figured i should reorganize so that all the tutorials are in this post. otherwise you have to go digging all over the place since its so long.

painting ears

shoulder deformation theory

low poly eye tutorial

dirtying your textures

Character modeling from start to finish

massing out the model

modeling the legs

modeling out the arms

modeling out the hands

modeling the head

Uv layout and theory part 1
uv layout and theory part 2

texturing (unfinished but goes over the basics)

rigging for game engines

using thirds to give the impression of a more detailed texture

a script that gives you the texture ratio of your uv layout. the higher the better (will go over 100 if you mirror and tile)

creating stubble for beards and shaved heads

texturing theory, (now with images)

on resizing your textures!!

Texturing Theory example tutorial. painting a samurai shoulderpad

Low poly Hair tutorial

http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process/hair_tutorial/hair.gif (http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process/hair_tutorial/hair_01.htm) click the image

Varying edges


Color vs Greyscale

In this video I go over the basics of using zbrush 2. Starting with making a rough model out of zspheres, then editing it in zbrush with the various paint deformation tools. I then move the model into max where I make a low poly cage and demonstrate Max 7's new render to texture feature to get a normal map and a lighting map.


Smoothing Groups: Tips (http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process/tips/smoothing_groups.jpg)

This tip shows how to use smoothing groups. They should be used sparingly, but when appropriate can really help your model read better in game.

A paper on analytical thinking.

I also just finished a tutorial on Normal Mapping for games using Max 7. Hopefully this will help several people.


This one is on basic mask usage in photoshop.


Gradient Maps in photoshop.


01-25-2004, 09:06 AM
Thanx Poop these'll definatley be helpfull.

01-25-2004, 09:07 AM
awesome. thanks a bunch and hope to see more of these in the future

01-25-2004, 11:54 AM
wow, thank you SO much.

01-25-2004, 12:29 PM
yes thx, very interesting

01-25-2004, 10:38 PM
thanks poop. that shoulder thing is really interesting.

02-01-2004, 09:00 AM
*edit* consolidated to first post

02-01-2004, 12:09 PM
wow, thanks poop.

be cool to have some more on the shoulder thing, like bone placement and skinning etc. been having a few probs.


02-02-2004, 02:07 AM
Bangin stuff poops.
Lay some more on us.

02-02-2004, 03:06 PM
im participating in Polycounts fantasy character challenge, and I decided to document my entire process via video tutorial with audio. This is the initial stage of blocking out the masses


and here is the concept of my creature

02-02-2004, 07:00 PM
On your two garbage cans.. did you +add the grime by hand or did you already have photos of grunged garbage cans?

02-02-2004, 08:13 PM
here is a breakdown of all the layers i used for the dirt. most of them were set to some kind of blending layer, which i turned off so they would show up on the white. most were taken from photographs of dirt grime grunge etc


02-02-2004, 08:59 PM

02-02-2004, 10:13 PM
That was one of the best tutorials I've ever had the pleasure to see.
I'd like to thank you for clearing out some obvious points that I was doing wrong, and as well as introducing me to Editable Poly which I've never even touched before (editable mesh, here)... seems like there are some true improvements in that department.

I'd love to see the next piece whenever it comes out, where will you post it? On your website or here in this thread? And when? :D
Lots of questions.

Damn, that was good for me.

02-02-2004, 11:37 PM
When I try to play the video it says "Error downloading codec" or "You need a different codec to play this file" or something along those lines. Is there any specific codec that I need to play this?

02-03-2004, 12:59 AM

it is called xvid. its my favorate codec, and does a good job.

02-03-2004, 03:35 AM
Great tutorial. :thumbsup:
The volume on the voiceover seems to be rather low (had to crank my volume waaay up to listen to the voiceover, and damn near blew out my ears when someone icq'd me). :surprised

02-03-2004, 12:26 PM
I've watched many a video tutorial and this is one of the most informative! big help. thanx a heep, please keep them coming! :)

02-03-2004, 05:37 PM
Very very helpfull video.. thankies

edit: you should get better headphones though ;)

02-03-2004, 08:14 PM
Eagerly Waitin for part 2 ;)

02-04-2004, 03:38 AM
wow, alot more people interested in this than I thought.

one favor to ask. Please, I put alot of time an energy into making this video. I am paying to host it from a site that will handle not only the storage, but the bandwith. all i ask in return is that you either post here in the thread of what you thought, what could be improved etc, and maybe an email if you found it particularly helpful. Its nice to know that my efforts are being appreciated.


02-04-2004, 03:38 AM
man, a triple post, suxorz

02-04-2004, 03:38 AM
dont mind me, just a n00b passing through, if a mod reads this, please delete my two extra posts, sorry

02-04-2004, 04:57 AM
its great that you spent the time to create a video tutourial for us Newbies, especially on how to start off modeling.
though i don't use 3ds max i find that its useful no matter what 3d package is used.

thanks a bunch :thumbsup:

02-04-2004, 08:34 AM
Great stuff!

I like your small, but very good tips! Keep 'em coming! ;)

Cyborg Corp.
02-04-2004, 08:46 AM
These vids, along with your low poly tutorials, have been a huge help to me. Thanks poopinmymouth!

02-04-2004, 10:15 AM
The video tuts are great Poop, I think it's the best I've ever seen actually.
How many stages are you planning to go through?

02-04-2004, 11:41 AM
Very good stuff Ben. Can't wait to see you do the arms and hands. I've always found you pointers very helpful though so I'm not surpized at how informative the videos are.

Keep it up.

02-04-2004, 03:25 PM
thanks for all the encouragement guys. as of right now, the plan is to video this to the finish. Which includes UVing, Texturing in Photoshop, Building a custom rig in max, and weighting using the skin modifier (ill go over physique too, just the differences tho, ill be rigging in skin)

If i was an animator, i would include that too, but.. yeah.....

02-04-2004, 05:20 PM
wow...good stuff man....its interesting to see how different artists approach this type of thing and the techniques for working....
I picked up some good tips from your tuts....look forward to more.
and let me say you are the master of hot keys..lol...

I sent you a pm through here if you get a chance to look, thanks... :)

02-05-2004, 04:30 AM
part 3


sorry this one gets quiet at times, and i didnt really work effectively the whole time, so i kind of struggle through some parts, but it all ends up well. 8-)

02-05-2004, 04:45 AM
Thank you for the music dude :) Even if it gets quiet sometimes ;)

This rocks.
I've learned a lot of new tips as I said earlier.
By the way, this could be a nice compliment; I'm a high polygon artist, and the ways you show have really made me more efficient. Thank you!

Can't find anything that I think that you can do different, yet :)

Really looking forward to the photoshop tutorial :)
Hope you can do some "basic" stuff there? Since I sincerely suck at making textures and the photoshop tools.

Take care.
*downloading new tutorial video*

02-05-2004, 02:41 PM
Hey Ben where can you pick up that polycount plug in? I've search but cant fine anyone with the name you said in the leg video. You got a link?


02-05-2004, 02:43 PM
www.juantwo.com in the scripts sections

Juan Martinez is an awesome animator, and a cool roommate. he is responsable for all of BR2's cool new moves

02-05-2004, 02:48 PM
Thanks a lot for the videos!
The thing I like most is your workflow, because it's really helpfull to see your "exploring" approach when things go messy! it's really cool to see how u get out of tricky situation like the shoulder area.
Thanks again!

02-05-2004, 02:53 PM
Cool thanks for the prompt reply. ;)

02-06-2004, 07:11 AM
Nice work on the videos man. It goes without saying that everyone here really appreciates the effort your going to, (well I know I do) to help out the community.

02-06-2004, 04:00 PM
these are great thanks poop. worth downloading even through my 56k modem. (pretty quick server you've got tho)

for any mac users, MPlayer (http://mplayerosx.sourceforge.net/) will play these vids fine.

02-09-2004, 01:21 AM
hands are done

02-09-2004, 03:27 AM
Sweet, that rocked!

You might want to "up" the FPS in you recording program a tad, since it gets kind of hard to see what you're doing at some points.
The file "lags", and thus, when you rotate in the viewports and so on, everything jumps back and forth and suddenly you're at the hands, like.

That's the crit I had on my mind.
Otherwise, the tutorials in whole rock :D

02-09-2004, 07:24 AM
Hey The polycount community is going to love this stuff...

You've helped me, like you wouldn't believe.

I was going to ask a couple of questions on some subjects you've preformed in the vids but, after viewing them I now don't have to seem like a total n00b :).

I hope i'm not being upfront with this but, could you possibly create an animation tut. one that doesn't involve a Biped like everyone else has. Bones, my good man bones :)

Thanx Ben!
Looking forward to more vids in the future, as long as you continue to share the wealth!

02-10-2004, 12:12 AM
Finally...been waiting all day for my internet connection to kick back in so i could post here...anyway..

Great vids Mr Poop. enjoyed them. learned a ton of new things! after watching them i decided to go back into my current model and change the mesh a little using some of your tips. Hopefully it seems better, but there are a few areas i need to figure out because my character is non human.
cant wait for your unwrapping and textureing vids. thats where i have begin to have trouble!

keep em coming. very much appreciated! :)

- oh, quick tip..since u use the right click menus often, you can click the grey title bar on the menu and it wil redo your last action (the one highlighted in yellow). shave those fractions-of-seconds off!

02-10-2004, 09:30 AM
Thank you for taking the time to create these tutorials and for sharing them with everyone. Not many people take the time to make tutorials <let alone video tutorials> after they've gained a foothold in the industry. Thanks for being so generous with your time given the fact that you're probably working your butt off on BR2.

and about Juan's script...

Does anyone know whether Juan Martinez will be releasing a 3ds max 6 version of his physique script? I would love to use this in 3ds max 6, and the current version dosen't work.

02-10-2004, 02:12 PM
seeing as how he is my roommate, Ill bug him about it by standing over his bed at night till he does it.



02-11-2004, 08:16 AM
Man, that's just plain evil.
I know how it feels like... it's a torment! :D

When's the new tutorial out?
The pressure getting to you, uh?

Hope everything goes well with Blood Rayne 2. Looking forward to play it :)

02-12-2004, 07:04 AM

head tute, image of the model


sooooo tired

02-12-2004, 07:36 AM
again, these are terrific :) thanx for all the effort. i'm looking forward to the unwrapping and texturing!

02-12-2004, 02:59 PM
Nicely Done mate... ur Really helping ppl out there just like me =)..
im espescially lookin Forward 2 unwrapping... will you be Rigging Aswell?..

anywhoo.. Tnx TNx and TNX!

02-12-2004, 03:31 PM
anothre good one dude. i liked the bit about the eyes. i've been doing it VERY wrong.

really looking forward to the next vids. well done man and thanks a lot for doing these. :D

02-12-2004, 08:43 PM
really, i love these tutorials of yours! very helpful! thank you.

02-12-2004, 09:25 PM
Great Tutorial!
Thank you very much!

02-17-2004, 09:09 PM
dude, what's up?
no updates for a while now.
hope something new comes around soon.

Or is the office in that "Crunching" period?

02-17-2004, 11:36 PM
well, was updating my website, www.poopinmymouth.com
tutorial section hasnt gotten any love yet, but gonna do the unwrap tutorial tonight or tomorrow night.

finished model. (didnt video the faeries, they are only 300 each so figured wouldnt be too helpful

02-18-2004, 10:52 AM
Ah, okay.
Looks cool.
One thing though. I think you should lighten the "resume"-link up a bit. If someone has the same dark screen that I seem to have, then that will be hard to spot :)

Faires rocks.

Take care.

02-18-2004, 11:17 PM
Thanks for doing these tuts Poop. I check your site frequently because of stuff like this. Video tuts are a newb's best friend. :)

Just wanted to let you know it's appreciated. Can't wait until this guy's done.

Btw, I would have personally made him with big feet of some kind. But it's all a matter of prefrence.. and I'm sure it'll turn out cool the way you're doing it. If you are animating, it should be interesting.

02-19-2004, 07:49 AM
uv tutorial part one. hour and 20 minutes man thats long, lol


02-19-2004, 10:08 AM
thanks for all the videos they are just amazing. but the last one doesnt work. It has just 11,4 MB and Im not able to open it.

02-19-2004, 01:03 PM
Same here, i get "Unexpected end of archive" when trying to open it.

02-19-2004, 03:57 PM
mine's no good either :(

02-19-2004, 04:02 PM
sorry bout that, reuploaded, should be 120 mb

02-19-2004, 05:07 PM
now it works! thanks!

02-19-2004, 08:07 PM
goodness gracious, that was good. i've been doing things THE HARD WAY! a pity there isnt a Chuggnuts UV tool for MAx 6. or is there? and Deep UV. think i have that somewhere.

very very helpful tutorial. thanks a lot man. cant wait for the next ones!

02-21-2004, 10:21 PM
YES! thanks poop, this is a great help for unwrapping. site is looking nice to :)

02-22-2004, 11:37 PM
Hey poop,
The links don't work anymore for me. Are they down for good?

02-23-2004, 12:58 AM
sorry guys, this used up 60 gb of transfer bandwidth in only 20 days. My site is still up, but video tutorials will have to be downloaded from fileplanet from now on. I am in the process of getting that in motion, so ill post all the new links when they are up. In the mean time get yourself a fileplanet account, its free.

02-23-2004, 01:35 AM
Doesn't suprise me, Those large files will eat up bandwidth like a.. uh, something that eats lots of bandwidth.

Glad to hear that you'll have them on file planet though. I've got an account there already. Now if I can just remember the login info!

By the way, I am very greatful that you have taken the time to make these available to people like me. It's been a great help. I've seen the 300poly headmodeling video, and that was great, not only from the standpoint of technique, but also for the first time, I saw how long it took someone at a professional level to model something. I've always got this feeling that I'm taking forever to complete something, whether it be a webpage, or something in 3d(I'm fairly new to 3d) and it helps to know that it does take most people a little while to go through the process of creating these things.

thanks man!

02-23-2004, 03:07 PM
thanks for all the replies guys. here are all the fixed links, and UV two is finished, I just need to get it uploaded.


02-24-2004, 04:20 PM

finished uving in this vid
next step will be texturing

02-24-2004, 07:39 PM
Thanks Ben. These video tuts have really helped improve my work follow and mesh follow.

I've actually used them in my latest thread I've posted.

Are you accepting applications for sidekicks or minions?

02-24-2004, 11:35 PM
Sooooo Awsome!



02-25-2004, 12:31 AM
[Edit] Was having trouble with the DL, but it's fine now.

02-25-2004, 07:48 AM
Thanks for putting in the time for these dude! I among many other apreciate it greatly!

02-25-2004, 07:59 AM
Thanks a whole heap.
Now I can go ahead and use this for my indian model I'm trying to finish up.

Can't seem to find the plugins you use, for my version of 3dsmax (6), but that'll be allright.

Rock on.

Can't wait for the next tutorial.

02-26-2004, 01:02 AM
another great one. enjoyed thouroghly. loved what u did with the hand.

i just wish i could get that plugin for max 6. the align tools are essential i see!

looking forward to the next steps

02-26-2004, 08:46 PM

hour and 45 minutes

texturing. hehe, hope yall like it

02-26-2004, 11:32 PM
Bless You!:D

02-27-2004, 10:14 AM
thanx for that last texturing tutorial, I learned alot from that one.

02-29-2004, 05:47 AM
great tutorial ...

ive neva done textures b4 (and my modeling skills can always do with some tips) so these vids r really helpfull

cant wait for the next 1

02-29-2004, 06:07 AM
Just wanted to say that I've watched all the tutorials and they've really helped me. I tried UV Mapping before and it was a horrible experience, but now I see it's not so bad.

The only thing I think I couldn't have a chance to do is texture like you do. I dont have a tablet and I've never painted a texture or even drawn anything (seriously) before. Next year I'll be taking some art classes for sure, so I guess I'll get to it at that point.

02-29-2004, 06:26 PM
great tutorial! a lot of processes i didnt know about.

Anyway...trying to save uvs as a targa...for some reason the alpha channel isnt there in the channels like it is on your example. theres no black background either. any ideas why thats happning?

Edit: hehe, just ignore all that.

i was wondering if your going to be doing a rigging video as well?

03-01-2004, 01:51 PM
sorry guys, had to rush through the remainder of the texture in order to finish on time, so no tutorial on the texture. I will still do the rigging one, as well as a normal mapping tutorial, (although it might not be on this character).

here is my finished submission if your curious

03-02-2004, 07:33 AM
That came out darn nice, but isn't the monster a little too nice? I mean shouldn't it be smashing the the fairies, or trying to eat them or something? ;D

03-02-2004, 08:49 AM
Curse my 56k connection! This looks awesome, wish I could watch :( (at least the UV one, I hate UVs can't seem to get my head around the concept) Good work man

03-02-2004, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Dhin
That came out darn nice, but isn't the monster a little too nice? I mean shouldn't it be smashing the the fairies, or trying to eat them or something? ;D

No, you're missing the token features of the character.

Monsters that are evil almost always have abilities or powers to use in their offense. This character has what looks like a gun/holster belt combo... If he were truly meant to be evil like you suggest, Ben would have given him an expression of hatred, long claws, glowing pupils, scars, nasty teeth, maybe an eyepatch and one arm would be chrome/robotic. ;)

You know if you go to the local Comic shop, and pick up any comic produced by Image Comics in the early 1990s, everyone is so ridiculously cookie-cutter Mr. Potato-Head, I think they did it intentionally as a joke. Everyone had chrome arms, blades coming out of their fingers, eye patches, stubbled faces, raised eyebrows, and giant boots. Much is true about the current state of the video game industry.

"I know, we'll take an animal, and make him into a game much like a 3D version of Super Mario Bros. and bore the youth of the world to death by repeating this process for ten years! The formula always works! Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, Banjo-Kazooie, Crash Bandicoot, this isn't redundant at all!"

03-03-2004, 02:55 AM
Turned out really nice. :)

I'm really interested in the rigging and normal mapping video. Good luck with them.

Thanks again for these tuts.

03-03-2004, 10:34 PM
Matt you have to remember that those games you mentioned are aimed to a rather young audience who frankly don't care if all their heroes are animals. I remember when I was five and played my first Sonic the Hedgehog game, #1 I didn't question why he was named sonic and #2 I didn't care what a hedgehog was or why he was blue. And straightforward level design is a lot easier for kids, they want to finish, not get lost.

03-04-2004, 01:49 PM
Thank you for these videos, they are very good insights into how a good modeller like you work, especially since they are so long and really show ALL the work and not just edited tidbits =) They'll go right into the dir on my hd that has the timelapse videos by Bay Rait, Martin Krohl and others =)

About chuggnut, for those who haven't tried it, it _does_ work in 3dsmax 6. I guess max is backwards compatible enough to handle a script written for v5 to work in v6. I have yet to try all it's functions and features fully but I at least can confirm that it loads without a problem and the basic things like vertex alignments and such work as they should. Just remember to make a backup of the file you have to overwrite when installing it tho, just in case something gets buggered along the way =) As far as I can understand it, you basically replace the script and whatnots that usually handle unwrapping with this new, more feature-rich script.

03-09-2004, 03:28 AM
i must say that chuggnut script is the nuts. thanks man!!

03-09-2004, 04:33 PM
alot of thanks for these fantastic tutorials
but can i ask u to put the blueprints of the creature please

03-09-2004, 06:00 PM
well i always have been and still am strictly against giving out my orthos. for one they are pretty bad, and two you really need to do them yourself. If you cant draw ortho images to model off of, then you shouldnt be using a 3d program, you should be using your sketchbook and pencil till you can.

03-09-2004, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by Poopinmymouth
well i always have been and still am strictly against giving out my orthos. for one they are pretty bad, and two you really need to do them yourself. If you cant draw ortho images to model off of, then you shouldnt be using a 3d program, you should be using your sketchbook and pencil till you can.

Well said, Ben. This is why I find conceptual artists working with a company, especially a game company, sort of ridiculous. Why should you need someone to think up everything for you? We should all be bright enough to visualize what is going to play well and make the player react to it. If we don't have this ability, then why are we making games? Even if you don't have the skills of Alex Ross, doesn't mean you can't make it appear that you do, by taking a crappy concept sketch, turning it into an even crapper ortho set, and then pumping out a great model. Verts are like the ultimate paintbrush/eraser set. Don't like it? Just move them this-a-way and it'll look better. Of course, I've seen some really horrible concept work in my day, from people who should know how to draw. This brings up a big problem, when they've got a big head because they can make a good end result, but in the meanwhile their work looks like 5th grader garbage.

03-09-2004, 06:58 PM
well i do think that a good concept artist is a necessity for a game to work well. In the same way that an art director ensures even quality throughout the game, a concept artist ensures the game designs are all the same level and the game will flow much better. when you have 8+ artist working on a game, allowing each one total control can lead to a very discordant look to a game. A full time concept artist helps to reign it in. That said I think every artist should be able to concept their stuff, i just think that for the benefit of a look of a game, a single artist guiding it brings about a better result.

03-11-2004, 03:05 AM

env technique

03-14-2004, 07:14 PM
hey poops

just wanted to say how rad i think it is that your posting all these tuts all the time and trying to help people out,,There should be more of it , ESPECIALLY from people who work in the industry and want to see people do things the RIGHT way,,just wanted to say thanks!!!

you gonna be at e3 this year???

PLEASE do a rigging tut ,,that would be amazing ,, i find this a subject often overlooked in these forums,,rigid , physique , skin modifier ,,,etc how do you like to do it????

03-20-2004, 06:29 PM
cool thread !

04-01-2004, 09:40 PM
Perhaps I missed it, but is there a chance I can get the reference images so that I can follow the character tutorial?

04-01-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by ShadowM8
Perhaps I missed it, but is there a chance I can get the reference images so that I can follow the character tutorial?

check the top post on this page...

04-02-2004, 12:46 AM
Whops :)

04-02-2004, 12:58 AM
I have learned a lot while watching these video tutorials.

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to contribute to the community. All in all, the creature came out pretty nice!

P.S.: Get a better microphone :)

04-03-2004, 03:59 PM
Yeah, it looks great, and thanks for making this tute,i learnt alot of cool things, and i'm shure that others did aswell.

04-03-2004, 08:01 PM
ok, latest tute

this covers segmenting your model to use as a custom skeleton. Next will be rigging, and i forgot to give clavicle bone rotation, so i will add that for next video too, but you get the gist of it


04-03-2004, 08:47 PM
Whoa! Another one!
Thanks poop this is very cool of you, i'm downloading it right now, and i'm sure that it's gonna rock just like the others.

Once again, thank you

04-05-2004, 11:03 AM
Even though I've never done most of the stuff that you're showing in your tuts, I can understand almost everything you're doing. Thanks for explaining everything so well. :)

One question I have about the last tut, though: Why do you cap each detached object? Won't the vertices between the different objects stay attached during animation? Maybe I would have figured this out during the next tut, but that was bugging me.

Can't wait to see him animated.

04-05-2004, 01:27 PM
the point of the tutorial was to make a skeleton out of your model. The actual model is hidden, and will not be segmented. This is replacing what most people use a Biped for. hence rigid segments. I just cap them as personal preference, and for easy reading of the skeleton.

04-12-2004, 05:52 PM
hey p. or anyone i have one question on the texuring tut, how do u draw in photoshop and have it update in 3d max view? thanks for your help

04-12-2004, 06:38 PM
richd if you would keep saving your texture in PS under the same name you used as a texture in 3ds max it will update automatically! (I think)

04-13-2004, 09:13 PM
hey poop...
i hate to say it, but arent you still learning 2d? semi new to it?
this may sound harsher than i intend it to be but unless your a master like DH or have years of experence and understanding etc i dont think you should be trying to teach 2d.
on an artistic technique level, nobody is going to learn anything from looking at those ears, nobodys going to come to a greater understanding of lighting or anything, because you dont have it to offer... i almost see it as unfair to them to give them your fetus of a technique as if it was a bouncing baby boy... your going to mislead people i think as to what the game art standards are.

ps: im more in refference to your organic stuff.

04-13-2004, 09:24 PM
A tutorial shouldn't be used in the way of copying another artists work. Rather to use to form a personal understanding of techniques.
No tutorial can give the understanding that Trial by Error does, or classes.

The tutorials are top notch, and the 2D part was very brief anyway (but well done). I think the techniques that Poop uses are totally sufficient for a tutorial.
Take a look at the other 3D -and 2D tutorials out there, this one is definately of a higher standard than most.

Just my thoughts, couldn't help myself :D

04-14-2004, 12:19 AM
I'm the ultimate lurker but I couldn't help posting after reading HyPer's post.

He isn't trying to teach, just generously share his own working methods. Personally I think everything you just mentioned is very counter productive and rather childish. Maybe there is room for improvement but I don't see you posting up tutorials on a regular basis in a selfless effort to help people.

I don't know you from adam but I can't help but think the little comment on the texture sheet of that orange creature sums you up. "Bet you can't do better". You have some stunning work, it's just a shame you're so petty and arrogant.

04-14-2004, 12:55 AM
Well... the way that I see it (and the dictionary too) a tutorial is something that provides instruction. It teaches. There's no use in helping people learn flawed or incomplete techniques. Now, I'm not coming down on poop, he's a good artist, but HyPer's got a point here.

Just as a student has no business teaching what he's learning at school, poop shouldn't probably be teaching what he's still learning himself.

04-14-2004, 01:22 AM

if your going to call me names and attack me, keep it out of poops thread, private message me about it or something.

three: im not going to argue the meaning of tutorial with you and all the other implications it has.
as an expression of his workflow its interesting but as a tutorial of theory or refined technique its questionable. thats my point, that if he isnt carefull he might pass on bad habits or give the wrong impression about theorys. you dont get a driver with 10 days experence to teach a person how to drive.
"totally sufficient for a tutorial" your not qualified to judge, i am. and im voicing my opinion that i dont think it was the best move in the world... i dont think it was the worst thing iether, just cautioning against posting tutorials on stuff you do when your newish.. i useto do video tuts of myself skinning metal junk or flesh etc, and its all BS, if it saw the light of day i would have just been confusing and throwing artists off, as usefull as it may seem its probably best to hold off on that stuff.
please, next time, help yourself.

he isnt trying to teach? hmmmmm suure, if you say so..
counter productive and childish? funny that, i see it as more responsable and cautious than anything..
in my honest (As always) and brutal (as always) opinion, poop just simply isnt qualified to teach organic 2d, to say otherwise is to contest me and my experence and my understanding of art, and seeing as how iv been doing it for 6 or 7 years now it might be foolish of you to say otherwise. He can go ahead and do it, but hes not going to get my endorsement.
guess you missed out on my 8 + tutorials on skinmapping and optimisation and modeling and textures? also feel free to pick up a copy of 3d graphics and animation second edition for a nice tutorial book with some of my stuff in it.
hey! well, if you can do better than i owe you $20!
thats verry funny that you call _ME_ petty in the same breath as picking on one of 30 comments on my texture flat. thats a good one ;)

poop: your tutoring methods are sound, your mesh tuts and some of those non organic 2d tuts are great. but man, i dont think you should be posting tuts on how to paint organics yet.

PS: poop, im looking forward to hearing your thoughts now i guess, seeing as how yours are truely the only ones that matter, the fact that im responding to these other two must make me a retard or something.. anyway...

HyPer- Everybody loves to hate you! WTFOMGOMG LOLZ

04-14-2004, 01:40 AM
Hyper, it sounds like you need to get busy and make us some better 2d tutorials. If all you're going to do about something you perceive to be a problem is bitch then you might as well not even do that, it's pointless.

I'm looking forward to some tutorials from you, I'm inspired by your work, most of your web gallery is on my hard drive to study. Thanks for the tutorials you've done, it's just that the ones I've found are a few years old and I'd like to see some new ones from you.

Back to the thread topic, thanks poop for all of your tuts, I really appreciate what you're doing. Thanks for your work and time.

I think some of you guys are missing the point here, Ben dosen't have to do any of this. He spends his own money to increase his bandwidth so he can share them with everyone. If he were to follow his personal interests he wouldn't do any of this, why train people that may compete with you for work one day? This is completely philanthropic <and maybe Ben gets some personal satisfaction>, it's not common for a professional to give out free advice. Think about it, most graphic professionals sell their tutorial content or don't even bother making training material. Most professionals in any industry charge for consultation. Places like Gnomon, Mesmer, Oregon 3D, Iris Inc., or the Ren. Center don't provide training for free. It's uncommon for someone to donate their time like this, think about that before you complain about it.

04-14-2004, 03:28 AM
come on man. are you saying im WRONG for thinking that its perhaps a bad idea for a literal new 2d artist to teach 2d art?

Your telling me by trying to convay a vague sense of disaproval and disagreement without actualy taking a stance on the singular point i made that you must actualy disagree with my point, otherwise wtf are you even talking about. i might have to re-write that paragraph if it doesnt make enough sense..
your disagreeing with me in general, which is easy, and nice to poop, and the best stance to take, because it makes me look meaner and you nicer and and and and.. no cons and lots of pros... to disagree with me generaly is thoughtless and weak minded.

My Point is!.... Poopinmymouth is relatively new to 2d art, and actualy doesnt know the actual fundimentals of 2d in some cases or well enough to teach it himself, he is good, and knows quite a bit but realy does have a long way to go and in my professional, experenced opinion, he is not qualified to teach 2d properly, thus i am cautioning him.

gotta love it, this happens every time, i say one thing, get 50 different things thrown back at me with venom, anger or general atitude that are usualy not to do with the point at all.

Here i stand, firm on my point, exactly as i said it in the begining.
I have given you guys more explanation and patience than i needed to.

Now please, I dont care, you dont care (And if you do, thats literealy kinda insane).. poop is the only one who matters here. dont try and take down my point, its true, its a valid concern and it does not need to be stomped out by you guys. the point has been made, nothing anybody can or has said can make his tutorials any more meaningfull or him any more experenced, give it a rest, your not thinking straight if you think your words matter.

Poop: as i said in my first post, i hated to say it and "this may sound harsher than i intend it".. now that its become a discussion it makes the point sound stronger than it needs to be.. you know me, you always try and have me tell it to you as honestly as i can, so im sure you will take it the right way.

04-14-2004, 05:11 AM
My concern is more that unconstructive criticism might discourage him to share. Why not tell him what isn't great specifically? I know I'd learn more from that approach and I'd like to hear your opinion. Saying that it isn't up to par is fine but please provide some constructive critique for all our benefit.

04-14-2004, 01:43 PM
Well my personal philosophy as both a student and a teacher is this.

"You do not have to be perfect to teach. You only have to be better than those you are teaching."

I realize that I am not a seasoned professional. And i realize there are Artists out there who have alot better knowledge of 2d and organics out there. However I still make mine for two reasons. Reason one is that my ultimate goal is to become a college level professor, preferably in game art, and I want to have a good level of experience in what methods come across well, and how to best share information. I can think of no better way, than to start teaching now.
Reason two is that there just arent very many tutorials out there. If there was a huge amount of amazing tutorials, I would of course not try to water down the quality by putting out substandard tutorials. however that is not the case. Many of them are either outdated, incomplete, or do not explain the methods they are employing, but are just a show and tell session.

Hyper, by all means, if you would like to redo these tutorials, please feel free. The problem is that most of the artists who move beyond a rudimentary level, is that they no longer take time out for teaching, because it is not a passion of theirs. It is to me though. And if they help even a few people, it has made it worth it to me.

And like anything, they must be taken with a grain of salt. If your own personal rendering techniques have moved beyond mine, then dont look to my tutorials for learning, they will be insufficient. However for those first starting out, who do not know where to even begin. I do not think that my tutorials will start them down the dark side. While they may not be the best and brightest, I have taken alot of time to try to make them as helpful as possible, and have gotten great feedback on them. Hopefully as I grow and mature as an artist, I will have time to replace them with better versions.

04-14-2004, 01:46 PM
I kinda think Hyper deserves a bit more respect, especially when it comes to his opinions on somebody's 2d art skills. His work speaks for itself, and he doesn't need me or anyone else to tell him he's good. Hyper has stated that he only cautions Ben because it is in the best interest of all people learning texturing that they don't learn any bad habits. That was his only reason.

We all appreciate the effort Ben goes too, I especially have learned much from his various tutorials over the past year or so. Nothing would be worse then if Ben stopped making free tutorials. It must also be concidered that there is a lack of good texturing tutorials in general, so anything is better then nothing right?

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, bah, I don't even know what I'm getting at. All I'm saying is that Hyper's points do have credit, however without any foreseeable alternatives to Ben's tutorial, they are somewhat nullified...

Make sense?

EDIT/ Just realised that Ben/Poop posted above while I was writing this post, so my attempt at clarification is now pointless, feel free to ignore.

04-14-2004, 02:15 PM

Been asked a few times how to do some quick photoshop stubble for bald heads or beards. I start with this process and then work with it.

04-14-2004, 02:28 PM
Looking good. And hey, you've got a sticky :)

What sort of a WACOM do you own? I've just ordered a "sketchpad", not WACOM though, a Trust (Trust 1200, in fact).
Oh, and an "industry question" :D
How much of the 2D work does an animator/modeler actually do, professionally, or is that done by some other guys?
I'm kinda working my way there :D Looking at some schools right now. Not a lot of them here in Sweden.

Rock on.

04-14-2004, 02:48 PM
Please no directed attacks.



04-14-2004, 02:59 PM
HyPer is entitled to his opinion, and there are no need for personal attacks.
Keep it civil.

04-14-2004, 02:59 PM
Grooveholmes, I dont really think thats appropriate. Please edit your post.

04-14-2004, 03:09 PM
Please no directed attacks.



Mangled Poly
04-14-2004, 03:23 PM
I look at you as a very talented artist, but your comments may be off base just a tad. Yes poop, may be fairly new to 2d, as am I so you can take this as its worth. When I took classes, and sometimes even now I was considerably better then some of the people in the class. However, I found my biggest leap of learning when I began to be a Teacher Assistant for the “lower level” classes. Maybe the students in there didn’t have the best art, and where new, but I instantly became interested in there approach, through this I found many different ways sometimes even faster then the normal route I always took, because of this my workflow, and art became faster, better.

I don’t look at these as tutorials on are they right way to do things, I look at these as another approach maybe I never tried or thought of trying

04-14-2004, 05:43 PM
Please no directed attacks.



mr. Rockstar
04-14-2004, 07:13 PM

THERE IS NO 1 ****ing way to make something, especially when it comes to game art, everybody skins differently, surely you know that, nobody's forcing anybody to do it "EXACTLY THE WAY I DID IT B*tch!!!"

confusing the n00bs? please... it doesn't force anyone to do it "THIS" way, its just another technique that he shows that other people can look at and maybe pickup a few usefull tricks that they didn't know about. you don't have to be a DH or bobo or kenneth scott to make skinning tutorials. people will always learn on their own, and have their own unique technique and style, thats the beauty of it, everyone will always do it differently.


well... all the "ego trash" aside i'd say hyper may have had a point along the way that he was trying to express. Now I'm not saying you suck, but like many of us you still have to learn how to be "really friggin good" don't stop posting those tutes, they help, they make a difference. What I think you should do is check out how others do it, check out all kinds of different styles, and maybe try to emulate them, bring some of what you like about other artists techniques into your own work. why? because like I said there is no true way, and we don't live in a vaccuum there's other people around us and there's tons of things to learn.

here's a good quote for you: "Style is a combination of lack of skill and artistic preferences" I think "getting rid of style" is a thing thats worth striving for, at least the lack of skill part. so thats that.

04-14-2004, 07:29 PM
Thats good advice rockstar, I give it out alot. any time i am painting something, i like to have my photo reference open and then a skin next to it done well by an artist that I admire, so i can see not only the real thing, but how someone else has simplified it successfully into a texture.

I do think i will start more copies tho, where i try to emulate someone totally, as i will probably get a better sense of their technique that way.

04-14-2004, 07:30 PM
Hey wait. I thought this was poopinmymouth's tutorial thread, not the "take shots at HyPer" thread. The fact is that he knows what he's talking about, as evidenced by his body of work, and therefore has a value attached to his opinion that his higher than that of the entire group here assembled. If he says "don't poison the n00bs with bad technique" he may just be on to something.

As for myself personally, I agree with him. Should students in grade 1 teach kindergarten? Grade 2 teach grade 1? No! Not everyone is guaranteed to move beyond their current level of expertise. In my experience I've seen people labour under poor technique for years and years because they learned it one way and couldn't get it out of their system.

It's not about styles at this point, it's a matter of grasping the underlying fundamentals of art. Poop just doesn't have them, and to pass that on is like passing on a cold that some people will overcome and others wont.

Poop, with his aspirations to become a teacher, should recognize that simply because he speaks english doesn't mean he should be allowed to walk into a school and teach it.

But hey, this is the internet. Information is free and I'm not going to tell him to stop. I'm saying that if he wants to be taken seriously, and if he wants his tutorials to have value, he needs to wait and let his art skills catch up with his teaching skills.

04-14-2004, 09:13 PM
hey poop.

Yea, im not saying you need to be perfect or anything like that, and i know your not trying to teach up to your equals or higher, i see the effort your taking and the value of it, but i feel that your tutorials in some cases arent teaching the right thing.
One thing that should become clear to you in the future is that the process you use to get the effect is not what matters, and infact is whats holding you back and that your understanding of theory is all that matters.

In 2d game art there are two aspects... Process and Theory.

Process is usualy what bogs down a beginer. Thats why they always ask stuff like "What filter did you use" "what is your brush size?" "what is your opacity?" and "should i skin greyscale?" etc.
Process is always what holds back an artist, its what keeps 4 year skinners at relatively the same level of skill as 3 years ago. They get cought up in using 50 layers to get a few pock marks and red cheeks.

Theory for a number of concepts is all an artist needs, Lighting theory, color theory, game art skinning theory etc.
first of all, without theory, any amount of process is going to be fruitless, beyond that, a firm grip, understanding and ability to use these theorys is what makes people like dark horizon and qube and per128 as good as they are in game art and with little effort any other medeum because theory isnt spacific to the medeum.

a good analogy is give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and feed him for the rest of his life. To teach process is like giving somebody a fish, teaching theory is teaching how to fish.

Unfortunately all your doing is teaching process, which is meaningless for the most part.
I can see how in some cases its handy, but theory is all that needs to be tought, because a good understanding of theory replaces the need for process.

thanks man.
i guess what all this posting is sheding light on is exaclty what iv been getting at but much better articluated through pages of posting - that there isnt enough theory floating around and that its all process, and process isnt going to help someone in most cases and in some cases will even bog them down. your right in that there arent any theory alternatives to process tutorials, but that doesnt mean that we dont need theory tutorials.

your hair tutorial is in a harsh manner of speaking diseased with process.
dont take what im saying as bashing or even criticism, but take it as a lecture or tutorial in itself.
What your doing is 11 + steps to do something amazingly simple, those 11 steps are all un nessesary and not the point of how to paint stubble, what should be tought is how to controll colors and forms and texture to give the impression of it. once they have that you shouldent have to teach them how to paint it, because the all applicable theory applys to everything, beit stubble, pock marks, muscles, wrinkles, bruises etc.
to teach process is to imply that process is what matters.
to teach theory overrules all redundant process and is infinately more meaningfull and helpfull.
Please no directed attacks.



MangledPoly: You look to me as an experenced and tallented artist? then stop and think for a second that i might actualy know better than you in this case, i have proven this time and time again when i make any kind of reasonable comment in the past.
unfortunately what nobody is ever able to realise is that in most cases i have put years of thought and practice into these subjects and never is anybody willing to give me the benifit of the doubt.

gotta love it, this happens every time, i say one thing, get 50 different things thrown back at me with venom, anger or general atitude that are usualy not to do with the point at all.

Every time, huh? Maybe you should rethink your method of delivery.

poop:.. well, i guess it could be interesting if i posted in here (given your permission) with some followup tutorials or more theory based stuff seeing as how your thread is now sticky, maybe we could do some tutorials togeather, who knows..
iether way, its been a whyle since i have done tuts and i wouldent mind seeing what i can do.

04-14-2004, 09:53 PM

mr. Rockstar
04-14-2004, 09:58 PM
you know so little of what i was talking about that your not even arguing against me.

ur saying this as if I should argue against you... HAHAHAH... lol

anyways hyper here's what I think:

they teach theory in school, if you don't go to school then its all pretty much an intuitive process, you learn from doing things, experimenting, and if you're talented then u'll get it, thats how self taught artists are, and u know for someone who's 20 (obviously self taught), whith an OK portfolio you talk alot of smack about theory and shit, compared to someone who actually went to school like poop

Hell lets use ur fishing example... u bring the best fishing instructor and have him TELL a n00b all of the "theory" behind fishing, the n00b will still not be a better fisherman than someome who's been fishing for along time now... thats just the point, knowing the path and walking the path are two different things. The trick is not about knowing this and that, its about UNDERSTANDING WHY (like baseball, unless u play it u don't really get it) and u gain understanding only from experience, u can't know WHY, u have to do it, make mistakes if you have to, but just do it. And those last words are not for you, but for all of those aspirings artists who want to learn and understand, ur way past redemption brotha.

04-14-2004, 10:01 PM
Personally, I would just like to see another tutorial from Poop.

Poop; I just can't stop laughing at that image. It totally rocks.

04-14-2004, 10:06 PM
it is indeed the best image in the universe. it never fails to totally get a thread back on track. for realz.

04-14-2004, 10:27 PM
Ok, this is teetering on the very edge of a flamewar. Here's a bit of level headedness (I hope) to diffuse some of it.

Mr. Rockstar: Do you think it's right that your quick riffing on art here in this thread stands up to what HyPer has to say? What he's demonstrated in his own art? If you think so, then by all means, carry on and debate the point. Don't just mock it. If not, you really have no business talking about it.

Poop: Bad form. There's a point being discussed here and its one that's incredibly important to you and your progress as an artist and a teacher. If you're going to dismiss it with funny images and pretend it never happened, you'll never grow and understand what you're missing in your repertoire. I sure hope you don't treat other artists that try to caution you this way. I mean hell, he even offered to co-author some tutorials with you. Very bad form indeed.

HyPer has put his reputation on the line here to give you the heads up and so far he's received nothing but dissmissive negativity in kind. What he has to say is valid, but nobody seems to be willing to hear it.

If you really care about teaching, then you should also care about the value of what you teach. Without it, you look like you're just in it for the praise and popularity, and from where I stand it's becoming clear that that's what this is all about.

The rest: This is poop's tutorial thread. That's what it should be about. HyPer's talking about poop's tutorials and offering his comments and critiques. Anything else is beside the point. Just as poop has the right to post them, so does HyPer have the right to make comment, and nothing he's said with regard to those is out of line. Let's try not to make it about critiquing the critiques, then critiquing the critiquing of the critiques. Just keep it at the tutorial level and all should sail smooth.

04-14-2004, 10:53 PM
Willing to teach but not willing to be taught.

04-14-2004, 11:37 PM
Hyper I told you on AIm that i would be more than willing to let you post your tutorials in here. Until then, I am asking that you do not post any more in this thread. You are merely aggravating me, and as the owner of the thread, i respectfully ask you to stop.

diomedes, you have said nothing about the content of the tutorials, so i am respectfully asking you to stop posting in this thread until you do.

04-15-2004, 12:27 AM
Please no directed attacks.



04-15-2004, 03:13 AM
Please no directed attacks.



04-15-2004, 04:23 AM
Come on people!

This have got to stop.
It is in no way productive or professional.
If you have personal beef to adress, please do so in a PM not in a thread directed to people new to 3D.

This have got to stop.

"Before posting, please review the following:

1. Be courteous and polite. Show respect to the opinions and feelings of others. Use of the forums is a privilege, not a right.

2. Engage your brain before your mouth. You are responsible for your own words and any harm they may cause.

3. Don't dilute the forums with irrelevant and unnecessary fluff. CGTalk is a professional, moderated forum. It's a place to talk about all things related to computer graphics. It's NOT a free speech forum.

4. The Moderators reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread with or without reason or notice. Polite enquiries will be listened to. Any form of harassment will not be tolerated and is cause for instant banishment from the site."

04-15-2004, 04:40 AM
Please no directed attacks.



04-15-2004, 05:35 AM
Spacemunky; Answer in PM.

Poop; How's that new tutorial coming? :D

04-15-2004, 06:02 AM
Hyper, that was the kind of insight I was looking for, thank you.

I hope that we can move on here so that poop and hyper can crank out some tutorials.

As for the name calling, there's really no place for it here. Everyone is entitiled to an opinion. Some opinions are worth more than others. It's up to you personally to decide what to give weight to.

Please lets not spoil what could be a great thing here. I for one would love to see a permanently sticky games tutorial thread with as many talented artists particiapting as possible.

So I'm imploring all <maybe for my own selfish reasons> lets move on and be civil so we can all benefit.

04-15-2004, 01:10 PM
Well said.

04-15-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by richd
hey p. or anyone i have one question on the texuring tut, how do u draw in photoshop and have it update in 3d max view? thanks for your help

i've skimmed through your tutorial i might have missed it. and i no longer have the file, so can you please answer? thnks

04-15-2004, 03:16 PM
richD, you just assign the map you are saving, to the diffuse slot in max. each time you save over it, max will auto update it. i have an action set to save as a targa, but if you want you can use the psd itself

04-15-2004, 07:55 PM
ok, im putting this up here to force myself. this saturday, if we are not working (blech e3 crunch, yay for attending tho), I WILL make the rigging portion. I will be using physique, but ill quickly outline skin for those who might prefer it.

04-15-2004, 09:11 PM
Will there be any facial animations? Like eyebrows moving or something.
Will you go over the animation progress as well? Or have you decided to skip that?

04-15-2004, 09:27 PM
im going to be using bone based facial animations, pretty simple, and no i wont be doing an animation tutorial as ive never animated anything in max, and my animation skillz are very subpar, even worse than my DISMAL 2d skills. 8-)

04-15-2004, 10:11 PM
Sweet, things like this can be translated into high polygon work, well, with some tweaks ofcouse :)
And that's what I do, most of the time. Doing some environmental stuff right now.

Crunching time, uh? Stressed out? 21h days? :D

04-16-2004, 02:43 AM
E3 is going to be great. I can't wait to see what happens. (even though I don't get to go) My Wacom came today! I love it! Its a tad strange at first, but once you get the feel for it, you will never understand how you got along all this time with a measily mouse.
Anyway, my real reason for this post, sort of a request mind you.
I would love to see a start to finish tutorial for next gen games. Say a generic military figure. Start to finish, model sheets/low and high poly model/ UV/ normal mapping/ etc etc. I'd even pay to watch this... Say on a pretty dvd format.
If all the guys that were bickering earlier got together and put out a good product, you guys could stand to make some cash I bet.

(but otherwise, thanks for sharing your knowledge poop. It will help someone no matter what, I commend you for taking the time to do this work)

04-16-2004, 05:50 AM
poop, you rock. after e3 will ya gimmi the skimmy on what it's like? Oh, and it looks like I'll be doing siggraph this year.

Don't sweat the conflict, man. I've been drawing academically for 10 years (although I've only begun to get the beginings of a grasp) and can tell you that you've got solid footing on the basics.

I'm still learning a lot myself, but most of my professors have stressed that Theory is unproven explanations of what is learned through process. That's why it's called theory; it's the historians trying to explain WHY process works. The more you dive into art history, the more you realize that the theory you learn from the rennassaince masters is process forgotten and rediscovered over and over. There's a point to saying that processes evolve, but what I want from your tutorials is what you have to say about your work and your knowledge now.

You keep at it dude. We'll keep listening.

Also, next time you talk to me, remind me to tell you about a drawing group forming together. If you're back on the east coast anytime soon to visit, you might get to stop in at a session; which would be rad-tastic.

04-16-2004, 05:56 AM
and yes, I said rad-tastic.

04-17-2004, 09:47 PM


04-17-2004, 10:47 PM

great tutorials - thanks for them

one question i have: while flying over your tutorials (havent had the time for an intensive watch yet, will do as soon as possible) i saw that you use many plugins and a well organized custom UI
like i said i didnt watch the tutorials intensive yet, so i dont know if you're saying something about this plugins, so my question is: which plugins (especially the UVW plugin called "hide 1.4" (i suppose thats not the real or the full name) looks interesting) are you useing?

ok, you're saying it in the UVW tutorial - ignore this post :>

04-18-2004, 07:11 AM
The point of this thread has taken a curve that it really shouldn’t have taken.

Most of the things that have been said really are conversations unsuited for a public discussion in a thread whose point is simply to share knowledge (at whatever stage it may or may not be at).

Please take personal conversations to private message (please avoid harassment as it will result in immediate banning from the forums).

If you feel that there is a discussion here that merits a sensible debate (lacking of flames) feel free to create a new/separate thread.

Poop, I’m unsticking this thread. If you continue to post tuts it shouldn’t have a problem staying at the top. :) After all you have these all collected at your site for anyone who needs them.

I’m sorry but any additional unconstructive post in this thread will be deleted. I’m just asking for everyone to be a bit more courteous.



04-19-2004, 03:56 AM
I was reading back a little ways, wow it got pretty crazy in here. Anywho, I've been looking for a tut that covers just how to make those cool muscle textures and stuff like that and I have yet to find a good one, I think I've gotten pretty far with the muscle thing though and here's a little something I made just now:

This is not at all anatomicly correct as I was just going for the look. Also I would not call this finished, it's just a quick example.

I started by painting on the color skin I wanted onto a black background (I think this helps to give a little variation to the skin from the start as opposed to using the color skin you want as the background)

I then painted on with a small brush the creases in between the muscles, then with a larged brush I painted on the light part, and the dark part leaving not too much or it the original color (no dodge and burn yet)

all above steps were done with a hard brush

then with the smudge tool and a soft brush I blende the light with the dark to get sorta the original color in the middle. Then blend the dark (creases) part into the dark (shadowed) part.

then I used the smudge tool with a hard brush to pull the dark and the light parts together to create a sharp crease, you don't want sharp creases all around and I went back and smudged some of them away. This step is better done with a mouse as you seem to have more control.

then I used the dodge tool where a highlight would go, helps to make the brighter parts stand out more too. I used the burn tool sparingly only to darken the major creases where more then one muscle joined together.

I changed my paint mode to "color" and chose a color with less saturation then most of the skin and painted in some of the creases, be carefull not to overdo it.

I changed the brightness, contrast, hue and saturation often, and switched to greyscale for a while to get all the muscles the same overall luminosity.

You don't get good at this overnight and I have a lot more to learn, the only way to get good at it is to do it over and over again and eventually you'l get it right. Tut's are good classes are a complete waste of time and money (in my experience anyway), You just gotta get in there and do it.

04-24-2004, 10:04 PM
Very nice tutorials Poop. I have only been using 3DS MAX for the past 2 months but hopefully ill manage :) . Modelling characters is something i have always wanted to do, now my dream may come to reality :D . I cannot thank you enough for these awesome tutorials, thanks bro :D

04-27-2004, 12:13 AM
Hey Poop!
'bout time for a new tutorial I think ;)

Hope something new will come up soon.
We're waiting, dude.


04-27-2004, 07:41 PM
yah, i finished the rigging one, i just need to encode it an upload, but e3 crunch is killing me. 8-) just kidding, i love it. but seriously ill get it up soon.

04-27-2004, 08:23 PM
im doing pretty well on the body, just connecting everything up now :) . Modelling that head looks real hard, you make it look easy :O

04-27-2004, 09:00 PM
Yaayyy cant wait for the rigging tutorials!

Poopinmymouth, could you please upload the sketchs please I tried to download them on a link I found in this thread but it wasne't there anymore.


04-27-2004, 10:54 PM
Poop, when making the sketchs, whats the secret to getting both of the pictures to line up perfectly ?? So everything is in the exact same place as what it is in the other pic.
BTW, very nice sketchs on your website :)

04-28-2004, 08:04 PM
Poop, I'll take liberty on answering this =)

The best (and only) way I know of is foreshortening.
You draw one of the views, say front, and draw lines out from key places on the character. For example; knees, chin, top of head, crotch, and so on.
Building with the lines you draw the character in side view, back view and a perspective view.

Check out Andrew Loomis Anatomy Books on fineart.sk (http://www.fineart.sk/index.php?cat=1).
Sadly the book that talks of foreshortening isn't published there, the book "Fun With A Pencil" is where he describes foreshortening, which, by the way, is easier to do with a sketchpad than pen and paper. =)

Here's an explanation that I did quickly for this. The mannekin is 8 heads high (ideal proportions, normal are about 7˝ heads), which is a generally accepted height.
Foreshortening mannikin (http://w1.523.telia.com/~u52313329/diverse/mannikin.jpg)

Of course, you can make more lines than this, but I find it to be cluttering and not helping much.

By the way, this technique allows you to keep proportions, as well as getting the key spots for the foreshortening.
/ Edit

(MAN, this must be the most serious post I've ever done)

04-28-2004, 11:55 PM
I've never heard foreshortening used that way before, are you sure that's a correct usage of the word?

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, please don't hurt me. I've always heard it used for talking about how to draw something that is coming towards you (like an arm outstretched).

04-29-2004, 12:27 AM
I might be off on the word, but I don't know.
What I've read it's called that.
Um, here:
Foreshortening (http://www.polykarbon.com/tutorials/foreshort/foreshort.htm)

Might have all sorts of ways to use foreshortening?
My teacher in drawing class uses the same word (he's american, and doesn't know a word swedish =D)

*Not hurting anyone* =D

04-29-2004, 02:19 AM
the link there is showing you a way to simplify/calculate/draw foreshortening by drawing the side views and then using them as reference for the front views (smart idea.. don't know why I never thought of it)... But he isn't saying that that is what foreshortening is. I think magus' definition is closer.

I'm still learning this stuff myself, but the way my teachers have described it is that foreshortening is the "word used to describe the distortion when looking at anything in extreme perspective/depth". In actuality ANYTHING drawn in perspective, any angle, is somewhat forshortened, but usually it's only hard to visualize (and becomes an issue) at extreme angles.

Look at the front view of that guy in the link. His torso is a common angle and you probably are familar with it, but his right arm is at an extreme angle; and the way the biceps and forearm curve is tough to visualize. Look at how the artist has determined that the shoulder, bicep, and forearm all line up kinda like half circles aside eachother. That's foreshortening.

He used the side view and the extending lines to kinda think up how this character works in the front view.

Anyway, that's about as far as my knowledge goes. goodluck everyone!

04-29-2004, 03:05 AM
Okay, I just lost a post that I spent some time writing, so, I'll keep this one short, since I don't really have time.

The first post I wrote was wrong on at least one point.
The book where you can read about foreshortening is "Fun With a Pencil" by the same author.

I don't think the definition of the word "foreshortening" is what's really important here, it's the technique itself.
Even if the word itself is important for being able to look up information for your self.

Snippet from Fun With a Pencil, about foreshortening:

"Below we obtain foreshortening by projecting a profile into a front view, or reverse... Establish the desired tilt and position of the parts, then by parallel lines build the other position of the figure so that all important point coincide. When the figure is close, increase the parts that are closest and diminish the parts that are away from you."

I think it's a good technique, and it has served me well, at lest =)

Take care now.

04-29-2004, 06:57 AM
thanks for that info guys :) . I might give it a try later, although my drawing isnt amazing :P

05-01-2004, 11:51 AM
I may be a bit late on this thread, but I have found poops tutorials helpfull in the past and if I find a section that I already know or think is wrong I just skip it, I dont get angry.

I think it is great that he is so eager to help others out, he has deffinitely taught me some new tricks. I think Hyper does have a good point, maybe, but I have never found any tutorials of his( although I would love to) so until then poops stuff is good enough for me, he is a talented guy nonetheless.

05-01-2004, 11:34 PM
making this head is gunna drive me to anger management soon. this has gotta be the hardest thing i have ever tried to model :(

05-01-2004, 11:44 PM
Practice practice practice.
The only way to get better, and get the workflow going =)

Just a few more days now, and then you'll be in the clear =)
It'll rock to see what you guys have done to BloodRayne. What models are you doing?
Are you on BloodRayne herself? Or are you on baddies and stuff? Would be cool to know when I'm going to play =D

05-02-2004, 12:38 AM
I modeled the main male character
2 female characters
6 male characters
2 monsters


im hoping the main male character shows up in the e3 video so i can FINALLy have something in the media coverage that i did. I will be putting the models up on my site as they are released to the public in the form of press releases.

05-02-2004, 04:21 PM
Total sweetness =)
Hope to see some of your stuff in the e3-movies then.

In the tutorial-section, have you thought of doing a tutorial on you know, mechanical stuff? Guns, machines (duh), cars and stuff?
When this tutorial is "over" yah know =D

05-04-2004, 01:34 AM
I just have to say... Thank you POOP! <-- hmm that just sounds odd... Maybe I'll go drop some friends off at the pool next! ;)

ehmmmm uhhh anywho, your little tutorials are amazing for us here, and thanks for helping me with questions in the past!


05-14-2004, 06:01 PM
Well, since my post was deleted through all that hacker crap, here I am again =)

Hope everything went/are going well on E3, well, maybe you aren't there, but wtf, right? =)

I think we're all waiting for that new tutorial of yours.

05-21-2004, 09:23 PM
WHEEEE rigging finally uploaded


05-21-2004, 10:39 PM

That was really amazing! I hadn't touched max, or character studio, in a while, but that was super impressive. I never knew about the link asigning system.

I am wondering though, why is max slow with that character? Is character studio just that intensive on the system? I'm not flaming or anything, just curious.

Out of it all, this makes me want to try it. Too bad I don't have CS though (or max).

These were really amazing ideas for rigging, and again... kudos!


05-22-2004, 04:52 PM
great one poop! thanks!

05-22-2004, 08:17 PM
hey poop, great tutorial as always. How about an unwrapping video tut? It'd be nice to see how other people unwrap. I'd like a way to increase my workflow, cause when I unwrap it takes forever...

05-22-2004, 08:33 PM
He's allready done that.
Here's the links:
UV-tutorial 1 (http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/planetquake/polycount/tutorials/video/uvone.zip)
UV-tutorial 2 (http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/planetquake/polycount/tutorials/video/uvtwo.zip)

05-22-2004, 09:58 PM
heh. I feel stupid. I looked at his site and must have missed em.

05-27-2004, 03:30 PM
Finally had time to watch the tutorial, between 3d, web -and school work.

Very nice one indeed, will have plenty use of it when I'm going for a bone structure to my models that are closing in on finished status.

Thanks Poop.

What's next?

05-27-2004, 09:15 PM
This is. wrote it during my lunch hour.

I plan on adding example images, and I want some feedback from you guys.

05-28-2004, 03:44 AM
That's something I've been wanting to find out about.
Haha. Okay, so that's the way it's done then.

Two crits.

"set up either a serious of spot lights, or" ... I like to nitpick on words... you do mean a series, right?

And you need some pictures to break the monotony of the background and text colors.
The most brilliant text can be very unrewarding to read if everything around it doesn't give variaty.
School books try to work on this as well, using lots of pictures but that just draws attention, but books for school (Theolgy, History, Mathematics) are boring for a different reason.
So, a couple of example pictures that show what you're talking about.

Just my thoughts.

And a question :D

How do you texturemap a gun?
When I'm doing it I get stretching in all the corners, but when I don't connect the vertices I get very frustrating seams. Since I'm doing textures for an RPG right now, seams are not a very big problem, they sort of blend together anyways, but I'm not ONLY going to work with RPG's now, are I :)

Thanks dude.

05-31-2004, 04:35 AM
i went ahead and consolidated all the tutorials to the first post so that newcomers to the thread wouldnt have to look through the whole thing. my next tutorial will be on importing a model from max to zbrush2, doing the high poly work, exporting back to max and then using the ati normal map baker to create the normal map. then applying the normal map in max using the metal bump shader to display your normal map. I will also talk about how you can successfully mirror normal maps, and which channels will need flipping and when (whether its red channel or green, and dependant on whether you cloned in photoshop, or not)

05-31-2004, 11:30 AM
sounds very promising because I find Zbrush2 a very disturbing programm and I really cant work with it. :D

So I hope you can change that or at least give me some insight :)

05-31-2004, 01:16 PM
That sounds very helpful, about the normal maps.
Zbrush2 because it's faster than doing it by hand or any other reason?
Can't bend my head around that program. It looks intuitive and it works intuitive, but TO work with it is not at all intuitive :D
Might be those years with MAX though.

06-02-2004, 05:33 PM
thanks poop that was awesome:)

06-05-2004, 10:49 PM
thanks alot tttttttt for all those tutoriels they have been so helpfull,i have been waiting so long to see the rig tut that u made and now that u made it am trying to download it but i always get a corrupt file i tryed using everything i started to downlaode it with dap i have reached 99% and cant get the last part of the file as it does not exist,can some one help thank u so much for all the help

06-10-2004, 07:45 AM
hmm, ramon22, not sure whats happening, might try deleting your internet temporary files then trying again, or at a different computer

ok new paper,


on resizing a texture versus doing it at resolution.

06-14-2004, 02:15 PM
Hey, poop, I loved this tutorial so far, since I want to learn how to model for games and everything. But will this same method work for human characters, as far as the video is concerned? Thanks in advance...


06-14-2004, 09:21 PM
@ Poop ... That paper covers something I was thinking of when I was texturing a couple of rifles. Will do those over again, I went with a 1024x1024-sized map and scaled it down. Didn't like the results.
Will do them over, and since they're for an RPG I guess the best size for weapons and other "small" stuff would be an 128x128?
Please, correct me if I'm wrong :)

@ HaloAnimator ... The tutorials should work with any sort of humanoid, the techniques are the same, just not the concepts. The dude that Poop modeled is very human shaped, it's just that his legs have another bend, his ears are longer and he has fewer fingers.

todd ten
06-15-2004, 01:34 PM
Edited by moderator. consider this a warning

06-15-2004, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by todd ten
why dont you do a tut about drawing poop and ****ing shit Why, of course! Just what we've always needed...


06-15-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by todd ten
why dont you do a tut about drawing poop and ****ing shit

Did you know you're most assurely being banned right now?

06-15-2004, 02:25 PM
I totally agree. This is a place for professionals and professional advice. I am not a moderator at all, but that will not be tolerated here. So watch what you say and be courteous to others who are kind enough to help and offer advice. Review the rules here. Thank you.

To all moderators, if this is not appropriate of me to step in, I apologize and will continue on topic.

To stay on topic, how do you paint the teeth maps for the teeth planes? If poop is here, maybe he can answer that a bit...that was not shown in the video and also did you paint a bump map, spec map, etc?

AIPh Pretzel
06-15-2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by todd ten
why dont you do a tut about drawing poop and ****ing shit

This guy's been posting vulgar stuff all morning. I don't think he gives a crap anymore.

PS: B&

06-15-2004, 03:35 PM
Simple, I guess he will be banned.

06-15-2004, 08:17 PM
for the teeth, i paint them with gums and teeth! haha, sorry, but its pretty simple. the teeth are just a u shape of polygons, and i paint it like your teeth have been layed out flat.

06-21-2004, 01:19 PM
just wondering if anyone can give me a link for the chuggnuts uv tools for max 5. i cant find thiere site, or its not working.

even if someone can send me it, it will be appreciated.

06-21-2004, 03:58 PM
Hi Poopinmouth i just want to ask if you have started with your zbrush 2.0 tutorial yet, because i really looking forward to study it.

Bye the way thx for your other great tutorials which helped me lot.

07-13-2004, 08:40 PM

I thought I'd give chuggnut's UVW Unwrap tool a chance and boom there's the first problem:
Everytime I deselect my unwrapped faces in UnwrapEditor window , the faces seem to stay as they were before my unwrapping. I dunno why but if I select them they are perfectly unwrapped again :argh: .
I use Ben Mathis' method a.k.a as poopinmymouth a.k.a the threadstarter long time ago :).
And I am using 3ds 6.
Anyone had the same problem?


07-29-2004, 02:57 PM
hi.. this is my first post..
i wanted to say that you are a great artist and your videos are an execellent guide

sorry for my english

the rookie
07-30-2004, 08:05 AM
Hey thanks for the info, I haven't got to the videos yet, but I did see your tutorial of modeling on 3D total which is my favorite, I'm trying to get my modeling down, but it's going to take some time

08-16-2004, 02:44 AM
ok, updating this thing. its added to the beginning, but here it is as well


this is the follow up tutorial to my texturing theory paper. it has actual examples i work through.

08-16-2004, 02:02 PM
I'd like to check these tutorials out (particularly the char modelling vids) but every time I right-click on one of them instead of the zip file name I get a file called gsid (HTML document)! Any idea why?

08-16-2004, 06:43 PM
Poop, I think I love you.

So what am I so afraid of?

Nice tut, and it reads better now that its fleshed out with the lighting for different materials and with the wear.

08-16-2004, 07:21 PM
ringoffire: the link is to a fileplanet page where the tutorials are hosted. You need to make a fileplanet/gamespy account which is free and worth it for these great tutorials.

Hey poop, you think you could write one of those little tutorials (a la the ear painting one) for painting metal/mechanical textures. I can't find a really good one anywhere and i think a lot of people will appreciate it, thanks.

08-16-2004, 08:40 PM
I'd like to see more thought on lighting. I've read your other theory on it but it still left me unsure. For instance, you texture that shoulder pad so that it looks lit from above, but what if the game has dynamic lighting in a scene where you have lights underneath the object, how should you texture if your game is going to be lit from different angles on each scene?

Its a nice tutorial though, these types of things are much better than a tutorial that the user just copies. Thumbs up.

08-17-2004, 01:29 PM
Maybe someone could focus on a "Chars, the Doom III style" tutorial. I mean I looked at the textures and the guys from id already seam to use the newer technique -> no diffuse map but color map and a normal. And did they use zBrush or not. I like zBrush but I dont have that feeling of "overall control" if you know what I mean :D

08-17-2004, 05:28 PM
great tut poop, you "da man"

11-14-2004, 10:12 PM
Updated the initial post with the Low poly hair tutorial

Low poly Hair tutorial

http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process/hair_tutorial/hair.gif (http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process/hair_tutorial/hair_01.htm)
Click the image

11-14-2004, 10:51 PM
I clicked on the click, of course, and it took me to your page, ben... so my first thought was 'hey who'se this PIMM guy leeching to ben's site?"


man.... im an idiot.... why the acrynominization?

12-06-2004, 05:47 AM
Updated with two new tutorials



01-25-2005, 04:54 AM
Is anyone even using these as I update?

In this video I go over the basics of using zbrush 2. Starting with making a rough model out of zspheres, then editing it in zbrush with the various paint deformation tools. I then move the model into max where I make a low poly cage and demonstrate Max 7's new render to texture feature to get a normal map and a lighting map.


01-25-2005, 07:00 AM
hey, I use these things. You're a major source of inspiration and education for me :)

02-26-2005, 09:36 PM
Smoothing Groups: Tips (http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process/tips/smoothing_groups.jpg)

This tip shows how to use smoothing groups. They should be used sparingly, but when appropriate can really help your model read better in game.

02-26-2005, 09:52 PM
yeah i still use these. pretty damn handy. downloading the Zbrush vid. thanks

02-27-2005, 06:09 AM
Yes, I use them as well. All of your tutorials are quite helpful, even your very first ones. Shoulder tips have helped me tremendously!

Although I feel you should explain more of the benefits in working with greyscale. I agree that true color can usually look better, but you can still avoid plain looking color transitions in greyscale. As long as you don't just simply "overlay" color, it does help in focusing on tonal values. Something missing in lots of texturing work, one of the reasons why I don't like the textures in Half Life 2.(they actually hurt my eyes a little cause they don't "read" well and if you greyscaled them, it would almost be one tone). I dunno, maybe it's just my eyes. I need sharp contrasts.


02-27-2005, 09:35 AM
ahhh podman, not to divert the thread, but that's why I LOVED HL2's texture work. It felt much more accurate to the real world, which, depending on the location/temperature/time can be grayed with a narrow tonal range... I can see your point though, it does make the game look very monotone and dreary, but for that particular game (set in dreary gray east europe), I liked it.

08-09-2005, 07:39 PM
Whoops, forgot to update this. First a paper on analytical thinking.

I also just finished a tutorial on Normal Mapping for games using Max 7. Hopefully this will help several people.


08-09-2005, 09:02 PM
thanks for all of your work on these Ben, I have been learning a lot from all of your stuff recently. I applaud you for taking the time to make and offer all of these to the community.

08-10-2005, 12:03 AM
Just wanna say that I love your tuts poopy...btu every time I see ur name I kinda puke in my mouth a bit.....

Puke in my mouth? Hey! That's a great name!

Nah..the hampster stays....bad spelling and all.....;)

Keep 'em coming!

08-10-2005, 02:14 AM
Admin STICKY!! please. ;)

I thought this got deleted

thanx again Poop


08-21-2005, 10:19 PM

This one is on basic mask usage in photoshop.

08-21-2005, 11:02 PM
Thanks, poop. I was saving selection sets in alpha channels and "loading selection sets", inversing, and deleting the unmasked area, but your way is much better. Thanks again.

08-31-2005, 06:21 PM
or do the fileplanet links not work anymore?...i know they're old, but some of them sound really interesting, help?

08-31-2005, 07:31 PM
WHen you get the "File not found" just hit back on the browser and try the link again. For some reason, it takes 2 or 3 tries for fileplanet to hit the right link for me.

09-03-2005, 05:39 PM
Your site is currently one of my favorite resources out there,

thanks man!

09-22-2005, 06:03 PM
The character video tutorial is excellent.
Almost everything that I've been failing to understand and is holding me back is explained. Thanksa lot.

09-22-2005, 08:05 PM
Thank you, Mr. Mathis.

Your website has been one of the best resources for me.

10-04-2005, 11:40 AM
nice info.. Thank a lot.. keep coming !:buttrock:

11-07-2005, 10:25 AM
New one, this time on Gradient Map adjustment layers.


11-07-2005, 02:58 PM
Ben ... U the best. Like always few nice thing to think about.


11-07-2005, 06:32 PM
This is a technique I use regularly, seeing I'm a greyscale fellow ;). Although your version dives much deeper and is quite insightful. Thanks for that. Providing aspiring game artists with a free education, you are very generous. I appreciate it.


11-07-2005, 07:56 PM
Does fileplanet require membership to view these tutorials? Is there a free registration available? I didn't see one but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

11-16-2005, 08:43 PM
I thought fileplanet did have a free subscription...they don't anymore? I'd really like to check these tutorials out, do I have to pay fileplanet to download them now?

11-16-2005, 10:16 PM
To sign up for the free membership on fileplanet just go to the log in page and it will have 2 sections, one for existing members and another for new users to register.

(https://login.fileplanet.com/login.aspx?r=http%3a%2f%2fwww.fileplanet.com%2fgsidscript.aspx%3ffpr%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.fileplanet.com%252f&sl=)Free Fileplanet sign up (http://New%20Members%3C/a%3E)

11-17-2005, 01:58 AM
ah thanks!

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