View Full Version : Anyone want to help write programs like this ?

01 January 2004, 01:43 AM

Looking for help.

See and follow the signs.

01 January 2004, 02:41 PM
what exactly in the package are you looking for? the modeling tools? writing a complete package is very time consuming. Perhaps its better to start out with a "off-the-shelf" 3d tool and optimize it?

// sp

01 January 2004, 02:56 PM
What is a complete package ? I'll tell ya ... "a complete package" is SUBJECTIVE.

That being said ... I think my current package is very complete in a few areas ...

(1) User interface concepts. Navigation of the polygons and model is complete enough. Can be made better on a day by day basis if someone was interested in that.

(2) UVMapping harness and UI is complete enough.

(3) Parametric Primative Generation (complicated primatives). More than complete ... it's downright powerful.

I am hoping to network to someone who looks at the title of this Forum Section and say "Yeah ... I'm a graphic geek power programmer ... I can do some of these things better than the average Joe". But at the very same time ... does not take self and journey of programming too seriously.

I don't want to write the next Killer app ... because that would imply "selling out" to some degree. Projects can tank themselves by bending to the will of the masses and listening to too much outside input. Some construtive from end users input is great ... but there certainly can be too much. Developers should be first class users IMHO.

So anyway ... the video was not a mock-up ... and I'd sure love to grab a few good minds and drag them to my forum and perhaps into my code.

01 January 2004, 04:16 PM
Can't really tell what the heck's supposed to be going on in the video.

I think you've got your ideas slightly backwards, after all, feedback from the end users is the most important part of making a better application... unless you're going to be the only one using it.

01 January 2004, 04:32 PM
Ever hear of an expert system ?

The concept does not need to apply only to knowledge based systems. Can be applied to apps as well. Apps should be written by "domain experts" eliminating the need for a large set of beta testers.

If you can't tell what's going on in the video ... then that might mean you need to look again. It's about better loop selectors.

01 January 2004, 04:54 PM
Ah right... that's what I thought it was showing.

Did you ever hear of the phrase "customer satisfaction"?

01 January 2004, 05:27 PM
Customer Satisfaction ...

The customer will be satisified so long at the product is developed by and Expert who can ensure that the product "biases" the new users quickly into two camps. Love it, or Hate it camps. This can easily be achieved by innovative software that takes a targeted approach and is not afraid to try new interfaces and offer new tech. There's no need to be concerned with Customer satisfaction with the camp that Hates.
The group that Loves will love unconditionally because the software offers something truely new that can't be gotten ANYWHERE ELSE. Anyway ... that's my concept for how to divide or weed-out users.

A product that pretends to be all things to all people could end up with a lot of unsatisfied customers.

But this is really a lot of digression ... as I'm a believer in code Refactoring, interface refactoring, rapid prototyping ... and coding WITHOUT a design. My code is the design. Now I'm probably writing more flame bait ... but please no ... I'm really just looking for a programmer who would share some of these ideas, feelings, and be into 3D Subdivision centric programming.

01 January 2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by markyjerky
two camps. Love it, or Hate it camps.

The two extremes in customer profile are usually the two smallest percentages of a (commercial) customer base. I haven't seen you mention the spectrum in between those two extremes which usually makes up the largest number of individuals.

and coding WITHOUT a design. My code is the design. Now I'm probably writing more flame bait

There's nothing wrong with being an XP 'fan'. XP can work out great depending on things like team structures (or lack thereof), complexity (or simplicity) and maintenance (or none), etc.

01 January 2004, 07:09 PM
I'm not wanting to develop Commercial Software here ...
Just software that works well and does not require crazy interfaces. I consider my project to be open sources. Just FYI.

01 January 2004, 12:27 AM
Ya but ultimately you're making a tool for people to use. Whether you want to sell it or not, the ultimate test of how good your software is will be how many people want to use it.

01 January 2004, 03:24 AM
I'm not sure you can ever have too much user feedback. Of course sorting the wheat from the chaff is difficult and time consuming. (hence the request I guess ;) ). This is all part of the administration of project management and can become a full time job very easily.

A good way of getting people on board might be too release the source and ask for patches. Only the truly dedicated would bother.

If you are uncomfortable with giving away the source (which you will probably have to do in some form if working with someone else), a better solution might be to create a powerful API or embed a scripting language. (my current flavour of the month being Ruby or Python but that's just me).

This way can be the best of both worlds as users can get what they want and it frees you up to concentrate on the parts just you want to do.


01 January 2004, 01:34 PM
Manifold Lab Release notes might provide some insights ... yes ... it's open sources if you follow the links.


Requires recent 1.4.x Java Runtimes.

Also works best at imporing and displaying Nendo
files created with Wings3D. At least one such file
is included.

If you want to try an older java runtime ...
you may need to get a different gl4java

Sat, Sept. 13 2003.
Manifold Lab now has ...
Functioning Save As Nendo. Import Nendo. Face Color. Vertex Color. Select Region(s).
Strict and Topological Edge Loop select. And A lot more. Needs performance and tuning. <----- Where to get releases.

Sunday Sept. 14 2003
Speed improvements ... bounded growth and more.

Wed Sept 17, 2003
Speed Improvements . Shadow Strength Slider.
Frame Rate Meter added to Spin Button.

Thurs Sept 18, 2003.
Fixed AIM to work more link Wings3D/Nendo.
Fixed invert face selection (was broken badly).
Added JRE Version Warning for people with Old Java.

Friday Sept 19, 2003.
Fixed Wasamonkey's complaint about selection not working right.
Vert tool was not turning on verts. Edge tool was not turning on edges.
Hope all is better now.

Sat. Sept 20, 2003
Noticed that SAVE was totally obliterated. Fixed. Added color dropper cursor support.

Sunday Sept 21, 2003
Added more Java VM interrogation/reporting to the warning/abort dialog for wrong VM.
Added Paint bucket for easy coloring. Added alt modifier to + key meaning run growth until
complete. Change select color to red.

Monday Sept 22, 2003
Added spacebar clear selection types individually (e,f,v). Shift space to clear all.
More selection colors improvments.

Sat. Sept 27, 2003
Added ExtremeUV Mapping style ... but no WaveFront/TGA export yet ... so cannot use it quite yet.

Sunday Sept 28, 2003
WaveFront and Targa export now complete. ExtremeUV functions delivered. Bug fix versions b and c.

Tues. Sept 30, 2003
Much Linux testing. Works on Linux so long as OpenGL and GL4Java shared libraries are in the Linux

Monday Oct. 6 2003. Added most of OBJ import last night and today. Still have show stopping bugs
to fix ... to get OBJ working. OK ... fixed a bunch today. Can release experimentally.
Will only import simple OBJ files with single object (meta-obect or otherwise).

Tues. Oct 7. 2003.
Added BMP support on export.

Thurs. Oct. 9, 2003
Fixed a grey box drawn into UV texture by drop-down menu. BUG FIX.

Sat. Oct 11, 2003.
Added Revert. More selection conversions (vert to face (f)) .
Added ColorField on Edit Menu.
Toss out the 60 or 64 bit polygon summary code ... fixes padams bug.
Toss out a bunch of stupid color tiling code that didn't work well.

Sun. Oct 12, 2003
Added Start of context based Menus. Right now they are read-only
menus referring to hot keys and other active (enabled menus).

Mon. Oct 13, 2003
Hard Edge Support added . See RMB in edge mode. This
is in prep for partitioning and different mapping modes (Other than ExtremeUV).

Tues Oct 14.
Add some material display and annotation support. Fix bugs. Add Edges context menu.

Thurs. Oct 16. 2003
Added Face context menu.

Sun. Oct 19. A fews fixed for OwenR. UnBurn All. ColorField now on face context menu.
Nicholas added MLRenderRIB RIB support. Thanks very much. Add direct shell out to renderdl under

Tues Oct. 21.
Added some more API. LoopField, OutgoingEdges ... and more. See edge context menu.

Friday Oct 24. Added RIB export with UVs. No TIF generation yet.

Sat OCt 25. 2003. Strengthen the LoopField now LoopContour by limiting to a regions (hard edges)
and providing a cycle count limit. Add Shift and Alt key modifiers to these functions.

Wed. Oct 29. Fix background color to 69, 69, 69 ... make both BMP and TGA have same amount of overpaint.

Tues Nov 5. Add Basic Parametric Shape functions !

Sat Nov 8. Added Better Parametric Support and help text. Better templates.

Mon. Nov 10. Added grow by color, relaxed.

Tues. Nov 11. Integrated an INI reader for saving CWD.

Thurs. Nov 13. Added secondary selection in yellow via crtl drag.

Friday Nov 14. Added arrow keys for panning control.

Monday Nov 17. Set resize window to boot user from selection tools so geo-encode is forced.

Tues. Nov 25. Added Camera Mapping Support. Region Edge Paint in Bitmap.

Sat. Dec 13, 2003. Added Select by Same Perimeter.

Thurs Jan 1, 2004. Added items in the manifold.ini to control per-face overpainting and gaps
which in turn control the level to which Manifolds per-face maps are "loose" enough for other UV
mappers. Also added some bitmap font capabilities.

Sat Jan 3, 2004. Added Straightest Loop Option for edges.

Monday Jan 19, 2004. Added Shortest Path Selector for two verts selected. Find minimal path.

Tues. Jan 20, 2004. Fixed view options to preserve new user settings.

Thurs. Jan 22, 2004. Add shortest path between timeStamped verts.
Added grow by material.

Sat. Jan 24, 2004. Big Speed Up for Shortest Path, Closed and Open. Real time.

01 January 2004, 01:58 PM
Added Magnets this past week.

I think they worked out pretty well.

01 January 2004, 12:40 AM
I hate to be a prude and say this again. But the first thing that you need to do is make a new site that show cases what you can do with your tool.

The curent tables thing is just wrong. Put some style in it and then you will mostlikly get some more replies. You know more than me, you can code, I can not. I can just talk alot. And move images around in a WYSIWYG. But I know style when I see it.

No harm, just work on site. Clean site make everything lokk prettyer :wise:

01 January 2004, 12:48 AM
youngcat is right, normally I just close a site without looking at the content if it looks like this. (sorry)

01 January 2004, 01:05 AM
Give me a day or so. I might try at it to build a site. But do not count on me. Like I said WYS...

01 January 2004, 03:48 AM
Just no programmers.

Made a minor update.

Never claimed to have the most sexy web page. If it looks that ugly to you ... I suspect you may have a tiny screen resolution ?

Try 1280x1024.

01 January 2004, 07:45 AM
I'm running at 1600x1200 at work, but I don't think it's the resolution that kills it....

It's not that it's ugly, it's just messy - it would be a lot easier to see what was going on it you had a specific page for the software, with a page describing the features, a page talking about why you did it, a link to the forum, etc.....

Take a look at most software sites for companies that just make one tool - Massive ( is the one that immediately springs to mind. They have a very simple layout and a few easily accessible pages detailing what the product is about...

01 January 2004, 06:17 AM
Ok, like I said , I claim to be of nothing with knowledge or whatever. But I said I would try and I did.

It needs a compleate over haul of course but at least I tried, you can use it and change the images. I do have to note that it is CSS style sheet from as I am still trying to figure out how they do the switch script system I love so much.

I just changed all of the images and moved so code around.

I do know that the puppys and face on the sides are broken in Windows IE. This I do not have the power to control at the moment as I need to find the IE CSS code fix sheet to figure out that part.

Soooo, here goes.

and this is how it should look in IE

I was thinking there is to much going on in it so the bottom half started looking good the site instead, smaller simpler.


02 February 2004, 03:24 PM
I thought this was a programmers forum.

NOT a web designers forum.

I didn't like my page ... but I didn't like the new ones your rendered either. Oh well.

So I take your original complaint as legit and I will continue to try and make more informative and organized. Thanks for mocking something up ... even though it didn't suit my tastes.

B.T.W. ... if there are any programmers out there into WEDs and subdivision and such ... might want to take an under the covers looks at Manifold lab.

02 February 2004, 11:01 PM
Yeah ok so it sucks I said it was no good but at least I wanted to try and help. If you give me an out line of what you are looking for I am willing to assist.
Otherwise I will stand down and close my efforts.

:p ^-^

02 February 2004, 02:51 PM
I thought the art looked cool ... But without a sprinkle of domain knowldege and domain info ...

I'm going to clean up my web page a little soon. Maybe when I finish I should pop this thread up to recent and check with you and see if it's "substantially better" and at that time ... maybe you could offer a few basic changes again. I'm going to maybe use frames or just two column table. Something more basic ... but with a little more art.

02 February 2004, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by markyjerky
I thought the art looked cool ... But without a sprinkle of domain knowldege and domain info ...

I'm going to clean up my web page a little soon. Maybe when I finish I should pop this thread up to recent and check with you and see if it's "substantially better" and at that time ... maybe you could offer a few basic changes again. I'm going to maybe use frames or just two column table. Something more basic ... but with a little more art.

Coo, :)

But one thing, NO FRAMES !
Anything else is fine as long as it is clean and styleing, this was done with CSS I am not sure you can see the side puppys they stay in the same place on the screen it is just a trick with CSS , but frames as HTML are just plain evil. I will be glad to nit pick whatever you come up with. :thumbsup:

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