View Full Version : Stone & light
12 December 2003, 03:07 AM
Earlier version: http://home.rmci.net/tuvel/private/Stone%20&%20Light%20(3).jpg (http://home.rmci.net/tuvel/private/Stone%20&%20Light%20(4).jpg)
My first post here. (I couldn't get the [img] code to work...) I wasn't thinking in terms of emotion when I drew this, but I'd like some suggestions on how to improve this image to evoke a feeling. Perhaps, melancholy, or nostalgia, or something similar.
BTW - What are fanboy comments?
(updated with earlier version of the same scene)
12 December 2003, 03:02 AM
from my personal view,
it evoques a sence of warmth and serenety, even tranquility.
p.s. no idea about fanboy comments!
12 December 2003, 09:01 PM
fanboy comments are comments from someone who is just something like a fan. like "you are the best and I could never draw like that". usually someone who doesnīt understand art and canīt draw.
12 December 2003, 11:49 PM
Looks good. My only comment would be (and this could be a gamma issue on my end) is that the stone on the inside looks a little too bright for a sunset. I would apply a darker shadow or more contrast to the shadows to make this image (pardon the expressiON) "pop" more.
In the same breath, I think that the shadows near the window would be muddier and would fade up since the sun is so low to the horizon and it's angle of incidence would probably hit the bottom of the windows before hitting the carpet.
I believe i see a reflection of whatis behind the viewer in the background in the center plate. Is there any way to pull back to let this frame the scene a little bit? or does that camera position not read well?
01 January 2004, 07:54 AM
I think it looks nice. I agree the shadows are a bit brite for a sunset. Though it is pretty. Has the warm feeling to it aswell.
01 January 2004, 06:14 PM
Thanks for the suggestions and comments, Dreamz, Bigpet, Boboroshi, and Keiyentai. I've been concentrating on the Alienware Challenge, but I'll get back to improving this image soon. I'll lighten the shadows and pull the view back a bit, as suggested. :-)
01 January 2004, 07:40 PM
Hmmmm. It dosn't really stir any emotions in me. It seems very empty. U can probably see what I mean. Keep going. Stained glass looks good. Although it's wierd having a chrch thing in a tropical place like this...
01 January 2004, 05:47 AM
I'm seeing a sunset and a very tranquil solarium. There are strong Fire, Stone, and Metallic elements in this scene. The Fire is transfered by the sun, the Stone (earth) by the marble structure and the trees outside, and the Metallic elements with the window frame and glass.
The element missing in this piece that would completely balance it out is Water. Water has an emotional communication that other elements do not achieve. What you can add to the scene is some vapor, a fountain, a spilled glass, or whatever wateresque thing that you think communicates the intended mood.
This would be best achieved by placing a lightsource inside the solarium.
just my 2cents
01 January 2004, 04:53 PM
Ooo, and for "crack child" level, try some subsurface scatering on the marble. since it's backlit, should be exceptionally swank.
01 January 2004, 05:32 AM
Thanks for the suggestions guys!
hkbasravi: Great idea to add an element of water! I think I'll try that!
Boboroshi: I'm planning on dimming the shadows as you suggested. What is subsurface scattering?
I'm going to have time to get back to this sometime this week.
01 January 2004, 11:21 PM
"All non-metallic materials are translucent to some degree. This means that light scatters inside the material before being either absorbed or leaving the material at a different location. This phenomenon is called subsurface scattering."
01 January 2004, 01:31 PM
The modelling is quite clean and crisp but is also detailed and well built. I believe that any emotive content in an image such as this would have to be derived almost solely from lighting and atmospheric effects (assuming that you don't want to change the geometry substantially)
At the moment the lighting is very flat and detail in the sky is hidden by reflected detail in the glass. The flatness is in particular due to the balance across the image with the sun directly in the view I feel. Perhaps try experimenting with a more colourful structured and brighter sky while reducing the ambient lighting and perhaps playing with some volumetric lighting in the interior.
Lots of potential here just needs some lighting experiments I think, good luck.
p.s: I find the term Fanboy is usually used abusivly when refering to someone that is just trying to let the artist know how much they appreciate their work (something that is often better the the deathly silence) but can sometimes lots of these quotes can clog up threads.
01 January 2004, 02:24 PM
I agree with the last post, this image has tons of potential, but seems a little flat still. It looks great so far though.
The comment that I have is about the composition. I think this is an element that is contributing to the "flatness" that we are feeling. It is way to central for my taste. You have two exact palm trees at either side, the image is cropped at the exact same angle along the windows, and the sun is directly in front of us and the camera is pretty much perpindicular to the back wall. The composition is static and dosn't draw us into the image, our eye dosn't move around the image. When dealing with single image works (as opposed to animations), composition of image is paramount.
I think fundamental tweaks like that will really change the feeling of the image even without having to do the "high-tech" changes like surface-scattering.
02 February 2004, 11:36 PM
I agree with some of the previous comments that water is needed here as a balancing element compositionally, but I have a more basic problem. This image doesn't work for me in terms of content.
There's a reason why you rarely, if ever, see stained glass in the tropics. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a large scale stained glass pattern in a tropical setting. Stained glass was developed to create pools of color in the otherwise monochromatic and frankly dark cathedral structures of the 12th and 13th centuries. Had Christianity evolved in a tropical setting that likely never would have happened because there would have been plenty of vibrant colors to see year round and a totally different aesthetic sense would have developed. So, basically, when I see stained glass used to replicate the beauty of natural colors right next to already beautiful natural colors, I have to question the need. If you've already got a beautiful sunset, why filter it?
If you're satisfied with the image as it is progressing now, then disregard my comments, but if you feel like something is amiss then maybe consider the relationship between natural and artificial color as produced by stained glass, and explore that dynamic with your image.
02 February 2004, 06:19 AM
Thanks for all the comments! I'm about ready to get back into this now. I'm going to pull the shot back, angle it a bit, and see what I can do about adding some atmospherics to it, then I'll repost.
02 February 2004, 05:10 PM
Your picture is very even overall. That is there is not much fore or background ennunciation.
Apart from the gentle perspective there is little to suggest that this a 'grand interier'. There is much horizontal and vertical construction which makes it static. What you have made is a nice backdrop.
Try get an object of focus in there, or slanting elements to give movement, vary your lighting to give depth, get a story going. You have layed everything out, sometimes its the stuff we don't see that lends mystery. For example, when you light a face model from only the top or bottom many features are lost in the background, we don't SEE the top of the skull but we know it is there and that is tantilising.
Sorry for the crit but I think you want to get the most out of your rendering or you wouldn't post here.
The force be with ya, Kanga.
02 February 2004, 03:15 AM
Reminds me of meatballs. If thats the feeling you were going for. Wow. i tip my hat to you sir........
02 February 2004, 05:53 AM
What is that?
02 February 2004, 07:01 AM
im sorry i was kidding around man, im in a weird mood. I like the render its good stuff!
02 February 2004, 09:01 AM
OK, I'm back to trying to work on this image. I pulled the camera back, and positioned it a bit off center. I redid the background sunset in TerraGen, and here are three versions of the new image:
Stone & Light #6 (http://home.rmci.net/tuvel/private/Stone%20&%20Light%20(6).jpg)
Stone & Light #7 (http://home.rmci.net/tuvel/private/Stone%20&%20Light%20(7).jpg)
Stone & Light #8 (http://home.rmci.net/tuvel/private/Stone%20&%20Light%20(8).jpg)
I'm liking the last one (#8) the best. Does the sun's position look better?
The problem I face now, is adding atmospheric interest and perhaps some more geometry. This image was created in AutoCAD using AccuRender. The version I have doesn't due volumetric lighting, and the fog is very primitive. OK, so I can use 3DS 5.0, except I can't make the palm trees in 3D Studio! Arrgghh! I'm going to try using the background with the palm trees and import the geometry into 3DS.
Any other comments or suggestions?
02 February 2004, 10:59 PM
looking better from what i remember. I would just use a soft lighting and maybe even a glow in the windows. try radiosity or light tracer.
02 February 2004, 11:56 PM
ok, the grey stone is way too bright and flat. It makes the whole image look flat. There should be shadows on that stone. Do you have ambient light turned on? It looks like it, and that is almost never a good thing. Turn it off if you do. If you don't have volumetric lighting, I wouldn't try to use fog in it's place.
Does your program have reflection blurring? The sharp reflections are a dead give-away that it's CG, plus they draw focus away from the image.
02 February 2004, 03:12 AM
Thanks for your comments and suggestions, Fnote and Sparky. I was trying to decide whether to move this to 3D Studio Max, and you've convinced me I need to. I think I can take the background (TerraGen), the trees (AccuRender), and the geometry (AutoCAD) into 3DS and use it's better flexibility for materials and lighting to make this a better image.
02 February 2004, 03:23 AM
sounds like a good idea, so much more flexibility in a program like that.
03 March 2004, 11:24 AM
The scene needs a bit more stuff in it to become an evocative picture, I think.. Right now it's more like an architectural pre-visualization.
Some urns, vases or draperies perhaps..? I'm thinking something like the latest prince of persia game.
Also, bring up the tiles, to put some shade and texture to the floor.
03 March 2004, 05:34 AM
I love the colours that you are using! But like Danisud said, there needs to be more in the image, and it all still looks a little too flat, I think you should really try some volumetric lighting, it will add a whole lot to the atmosphere.
01 January 2006, 10:00 PM
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