View Full Version : (FLASHBACK) Lighting Challenge #5: Under The Boardwalk

mister3d
07 July 2012, 01:19 AM
That's great we have those scenes to try again. I've got one question:
" Really when you're underwater and look up at the water surface, the surface is mostly reflective: You can only see-through to above the water in a tiny area called Snell's Window."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snell's_window

So how we could achieve it? Also any more tips on creating believable water would be interesting. I will try to share my thoughts.

jojo1975
07 July 2012, 07:15 AM
Uhm I'm curious to test new caustics in vray ;)

ACiD80
07 July 2012, 01:54 PM
That's great we have those scenes to try again. I've got one question:
" Really when you're underwater and look up at the water surface, the surface is mostly reflective: You can only see-through to above the water in a tiny area called Snell's Window."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snell's_window

So how we could achieve it? Also any more tips on creating believable water would be interesting. I will try to share my thoughts.

Havent tried it myself to see if it does what is described there, but maybe turning on 'reflect on backside' in the vray material does this.

*edit:
Ok, i did a google image search on "snell's windows" and im pretty sure this is not what the reflect on backside option in the vraymaterial does.

mister3d
07 July 2012, 06:00 PM
I tried making it with a regular reflection curve, doesn't look that convincing for now.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2rmqs1v.jpg

halfPintMike
07 July 2012, 08:57 PM
Hi there,

Nice to see this challenge!

mister3d, thanks for that link. I never really knew about this. I don't know the first thing about vray but I tried this with cycles: a camera facing up inside a rectangle that is surrounded by a huge sphere. The rectangle was made transparent and was given an IOR of 1.33 and applied a sky texture to the sphere.

The result was the entire section of the top half of the sky sphere shrunk to a small circle. Would this work with Vray as well? Or is it too inefficient or something?

T.

mister3d
07 July 2012, 02:24 AM
halfPintMike, I'm not really sure what you mean that it shrinked. Were you trying to make the Snell window effect?

I found a good tutorial for underwater scene.
http://www.polygonblog.com/3d-underwater-scene/

I'm thinking which Vray features could be useful. I think Vray fog.

Panupat
07 July 2012, 03:02 AM
mister3d - the darkness on water surface in this image sort of have that effect I think

http://3drender.com/challenges/UnderTheBoardwalk/page28.htm

Maybe with the right facing ratio/fresnel we could get it to reflect our fake dark card under water.

FeD
07 July 2012, 07:42 AM
Hi all,

I'm happy to give a try to this scene, underwater is kind difficult. I did my lighting before seen the link of mister3d.

Still a lot of work to do, here is my first test render (with color correction)
http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/Wldg2.jpg

kanooshka
07 July 2012, 02:36 PM
There are quite a few characteristics of being underwater that really help a render look great Here are a few of them.

Depth fog/volumetrics- Water is not an entirely clear substance. All bodies of water have sediment and microscopic life forms that create a fairly quick dropoff from light. http://ic2.pbase.com/g4/64/655664/2/60273117.ytsurgeon_chilenoNov02.jpg You could achieve this either through volumetrics within your 3d package, or use zdepth to manipulate your image in post.

Caustics- Depending on the time of day and shadows there could be caustics from the surface of the water. http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2081/4514888781_19cc8b03dd_b.jpg You could make this physically accurate with caustics and a correct water surface or you could project an image of a caustic pattern down into the scene.

Water surface - A fresnel reflectance is extremely important when it comes to the surface of the water. As mister3D mentioned, Snell's window is the result of the refraction of the sky through the water http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snell's_window With a physically accurate model and material this should happen automatically through reflection/refraction equations. However, for this scene you may have to use some projections to create and control the effect yourself.

kanooshka
07 July 2012, 02:37 PM
FeD: Good start! The water in your image is looking crystal clear. Obviously depending on how clear the water is there will be varying levels of "fog". http://ic2.pbase.com/g4/64/655664/2/60273117.ytsurgeon_chilenoNov02.jpg You could either use some volumetrics or a zdepth pass which you can composite together. The surface of the water is too clear and could be reflecting the underwater area much more. Looking forward to some more updates!

FeD
07 July 2012, 03:10 PM
Thank for the tips kanooshka, i'm gona try with true 3D volumetric and the render times are going crazing . The render in separated passes is the key I know, but a render out of the box would be so cool :).

If any one have tips for rendering faster fog in mental ray for maya, I will take

jojo1975
07 July 2012, 06:43 PM
A while ago there was a wonderful plugin for rendering iso surfaces there's the link to a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuCpWF8NdF0. Everything seems dead years ago. Does anyone know a substitute ??
Giorgio

kanooshka
07 July 2012, 08:40 PM
Thank for the tips kanooshka, i'm gona try with true 3D volumetric and the render times are going crazing . The render in separated passes is the key I know, but a render out of the box would be so cool :).

If any one have tips for rendering faster fog in mental ray for maya, I will take

You could try creating a volume cube under create->Volume Primitives->Cube.Then scale it up to fill the water area.

Reed5point0
07 July 2012, 09:22 PM
Here is yesterday and some of todays experimentation.

http://i.imgur.com/vnn0b.jpg

2 lights both directional, one has a 2d ocean plugged into the light color like the visor fluid caustic example. The other light is driving the Parti-Volume shader(fog).

I am messing with particles for a suspended debris look.

One of my main hobbies is saltwater aquariums, so I talked (conned) a buddy into making me a few chunks of liverock to start some sort of shallow reef for the left 1/3rd side of the render.

One main problem of mine is getting "God rays" between the boards using a parti volume. If anyone has a tip or two on that I am all ....eyes :shrug: .

Parti Volume (http://cgnotebook.com/wiki/Mental_ray_for_Maya_parti_volume)

^ a good read for anyone struggling with murky water.

mister3d
07 July 2012, 10:30 PM
Reed5point0, great! It really shows the power of mental ray. Maybe add some more textures, and also try changing lighting direction, I think it could add to the feeling of 3d-dimensionality.

FeD
07 July 2012, 07:49 AM
kanooshka
You could try creating a volume cube under create->Volume Primitives->Cube.Then scale it up to fill the water area.
Thanks for the tips, I'will take a look, I actualy used Parti_Volume to get "god rays", but the render times are going mad.

Reed5point0
One main problem of mine is getting "God rays" between the boards using a parti volume. If anyone has a tip or two on that I am all ....eyes :shrug: .
Maybe some things to check :
-did you link one light to the parti_volume ?
-is the render camera in the box where the parti_volume is attached too ?
-is autovolume activated in MR ? (off in maya by default)
-does the light have shadow activated ?
Sorry if you already did everything, but some times it help to check again :)

With the Mental-ray Parti_Volume Reed5point0 gave in link :(render times 8H)
http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/hp3VU.jpg
the same render without the parti_volume box : (render times 1H)
http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/dvLPX.jpg

And finaly the two composited together with color correction (maybe too mutch hehe) :
http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/kWOgE.jpg

Panupat
07 July 2012, 09:34 AM
That's some monstrous render time. But the final comp turned out pretty nice!

ScallyFox
07 July 2012, 10:53 AM
FeD I like final look, but -- agree with Panupat, render times are too much.

Nice theme to explore, the underwater.. I love it and I missed the original thread, so I'm in!
Trying to shade and light it with Renderman. Or mentalRay, I'm not sure yet))

kanooshka
07 July 2012, 12:34 PM
FeD: The water surface is looking a lot better, and the fog is a great touch. The edge of the water in the background is too noticeable. With that area being so far away, I'd expect it to be much more uniform in color/value. I think you could use a zdepth pass underneath your partivolume pass. As for the parti-volume render times, increasing your Min Step Len, Max Step Len should help save render times. If it has some noise you may be able to remove it in post, saving render time. Some things I'd like to see is some more translucency in the grass, and some floating particulates if you can get around to it.

Reed5point0: Nice start! The caustics and depth fog are working very well. I feel the composition could be strengthened some, though I'm not sure if you're at that point yet. Let me know if you'd like some ideas for some composition improvements. The particulates are flattening out the image a little. Having some out of focus particulates in the foreground could help bring some depth to the image. The pillar could use some more shaping, try moving its light a little more to the side so that it appears more round. Keep it up!

FeD
07 July 2012, 07:31 AM
Hi, it's me again :)

So finaly I stoped playing with MR fog and dof (yes there was some on the previous render)

Now i've got okay render times (1:30min in 768*432), so I decided to make a animation test :

http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/2Ky6igULtnk/1.jpg?time=1343374776800 (http://youtu.be/EPOlBQaXJeQ)

As you can see, I have a new problem now.. the displacement is moving !

Panupat
07 July 2012, 07:45 AM
Very nice FeD.

What do you use for the flying white dots in the foreground?

FeD
07 July 2012, 08:08 AM
Hi Panupat,

I used the free Particle stock that Videocopilot gave here :
http://www.videocopilot.net/blog/2011/09/free-particle-stock-footage-tutorial/

For the lens flare it's videocopilot again with thier AE plug-in. And for the render I only used 3 passes ; diffuse, occlusion and Zdepht.

jojo1975
07 July 2012, 09:32 AM
Really wonderful animation :)

GuillaumeBoizante
07 July 2012, 07:09 PM
Hi everyone,

I always wanted to try one of the lighting challenge, so here I am :)
This is my very first message ever in cgsociety and I just want to say that i'm really happy to be here !

Here is a first experimentation with maya mental ray physical sun. I tweaked the parameters to obtain this kind of deep sea blue environment. There is also a few compositing just to see how my render can look with some atmospheric and z-depth effects.

http://www.boizante.com/images/underwater_Render_Test_003.jpg

afraine
07 July 2012, 11:25 AM
Hello all, I'm on board for this challenge, will post some wip images soon(ish)

Got some good guidance from Vlado, the Vray wizard with regards to Snell's window in underwater renders

It involves putting the camera inside a bubble, in the same way that a real underwater camera would have a plastic protective casing!

The scene we are using probably isn't ideal for demonstrating this physical result as it is very shallow and for the window to be in full view you would need to be quite deep and use a wide angle lens - must say it's an excellent scene though, getting some awesome results using Vray Fog, dispersion and caustics

Looking forward to seeing everyone's attempts :wavey:

Leotril
07 July 2012, 03:16 AM
Hi Everybody

Ill share with you a couple of renders of the scene, been working for the last to days mostly technical issues gettin the waves going, refractions and fog with parti volume. I does not have a clear lighting intention and im helping myself with mental rays physical sun & sky, irradiance particles, mia materials and mia exposure photographic :thumbsup:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm255/Leotril/boarwalk/1d2.jpg

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm255/Leotril/boarwalk/1d.jpg

mister3d
07 July 2012, 12:16 PM
I think it's still no-one made shail's window look well. It's pretty obvious in this video how it should look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucivXRBrP_0 Until we figure out how to make it, our scenes will look not believable.

afraine
07 July 2012, 05:24 PM
I think it's still no-one made shail's window look well. It's pretty obvious in this video how it should look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucivXRBrP_0 Until we figure out how to make it, our scenes will look not believable.

I'll post my wip in a few hours, when I get home from work

Snell's window captured perfectly

afraine
07 July 2012, 07:31 PM
As promised, here are some WIP images demonstrating Snell's window, haven't done anything yet apart from set the scene up, not decided on view or mood yet but just wanted to show Mister3d that snell's window can be acheived without any fake's/maps or tricks

http://www.anthony-fraine.com/snells-window/

Regards

Ant

CPFitz14
07 July 2012, 08:03 PM
Nice images Afraine. Could you talk a little bit about your scene setup?

What is the material/IOR around your "bubble" surrounding the camera. Is your water just a surface or is it something enclosed, like a box? Which way are the normals facing on the bubble and water surface?

afraine
07 July 2012, 08:16 PM
Nice images Afraine. Could you talk a little bit about your scene setup?

What is the material/IOR around your "bubble" surrounding the camera. Is your water just a surface or is it something enclosed, like a box? Which way are the normals facing on the bubble and water surface?

Hi Fitz,

IOR on the water is 1.333 (typical water) and the same material with the same IOR is applied to the bubble around the camera (a sphere basically). The normals on the bubble need flipping so that they face towards the camera (hope that makes sense)

Oh, and the water is just a surface, no box or volume

If anybody wants a simple version of the scene, maybe an .obj file or something I wouldn't mind sharing. I'm aware that not everybody here uses Vray otherwise I would offer a sample scene with the materials

Regards

Ant

CPFitz14
07 July 2012, 08:37 PM
Ahh that totally makes sense. Thanks! I was overthinking this one.

Cre8
08 August 2012, 10:12 AM
Hi guys,

Here's my shot so far, i havent done any form of texturing yet, only lighting and adding instances for foliage on the rocks and soil.My shot's layout is also still going to change, ilike to get my general lighting down first and then go into enviro detail. My volley layer also has a few changes that i will apply to it, i need to slice the tops of the plants that protrude through the water.

http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg508/bencpr4/Under_boardwalk_Frame_BenCooper.jpg

Please let me know what you guys think.I have a few bubbles here and there, but will still be adding particle matter in also using instancing ;)

Cheers,

Ben.

visua
08 August 2012, 12:09 AM
Oh this brings back some memories!;)
A quick mockup with low sampling, maya/vray and some postpro:

http://www.nicz.net/challenge/diffuse_00001.png

mister3d
08 August 2012, 12:34 PM
If anybody wants a simple version of the scene, maybe an .obj file or something I wouldn't mind sharing. I'm aware that not everybody here uses Vray otherwise I would offer a sample scene with the materials

Hi Afraine. It looks pretty good. Could you PM me the simple scene with just the sky and the surface, so I could explore the effect you created? Thank you. So you used regular physical water properties, is that correct?

http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg508/bencpr4/Under_boardwalk_Frame_BenCooper.jpg
.
I think your water looks the most realistic for now. :bowdown: Could you tell a bit how you made the water surface, so it looks so believable? And maybe some kind of gradient adds to the feeling, or it's just the water plane setup is so good? Thank you.

I think what's important with Snell's window is the index of reflection. I tried settings from 0,9 to 0,7 and they look more or less believable.

afraine
08 August 2012, 01:33 PM
Hi Mister3d

I'll send you the scene when I finish work later this evening

The water has regular settings, a bit of noise for the small wavy effect and IOR is standard water (1.333)

I've been modifying the scene somewhat but I'll send you a simple version of my setup for you to explore

You're using Vray I believe, which version of Max do you have?

Ant

You can use this scene which came straight from Vlado @ Chaosgroup, I take no credit for it

All I have done to differentiate my scene from the one in the link is remove the fog and the bubble which surrounds the camera, I originally thought the bubble was needed to return the correct effect (Snells window) but it seems that the bubble is only required to ensure the correct refraction fog colour is returned

One negative effect of wrapping the camera in a bubble is that technically you are rendering through something (in this case water) and so the only useable element would be refraction, this is obviously quite a bad thing as you in effect get no elements and may as well just colour correct the RGB. Removing the bubble allows you to render a normal image and have all of your elements available to composite with (much better!)

Ant

mister3d
08 August 2012, 01:36 PM
Hi Mister3d

I'll send you the scene when I finish work later this evening

The water has regular settings, a bit of noise for the small wavy effect and IOR is standard water (1.333)

I've been modifying the scene somewhat but I'll send you a simple version of my setup for you to explore

You're using Vray I believe, which version of Max do you have?

Ant
You can send me any version till 12.
It's interesting. Snell's window is created by reducing the angle of view to 96 degrees instead of regular 180. I'm curious how to transfer 180 degrees to index of reflection.

afraine
08 August 2012, 02:00 PM
Snells window returns the effect of 180 degrees compressed into a 96 degree viewing angle but nothing has to be altered physically to return this result, this is just what happens when setup correctly. In other words, Vray will produce this result naturally without any tricks or fakes required

Just remember, normals for the surface water (made of a simple plane) should point away from the camera. If you decide to use the bubble approach as demo'd in the sample scene, then the normals of this bubble (a sphere) should point towards the camera

Panupat
08 August 2012, 03:10 PM
Thanks for the scene Anthony. Is there any chance you could capture some of the scene set up and important settings for me to see? I only have Maya + Vray and no Max. Thank you :)

afraine
08 August 2012, 03:17 PM
Thanks for the scene Anthony. Is there any chance you could capture some of the scene set up and important settings for me to see? I only have Maya + Vray and no Max. Thank you :)

Certainly Panupat, i can recreate the scene for you in Maya when I get home, I dont have Vray for Maya though but I can share the settings of my Vray for max materials and you could translate them across into Maya, it's very basic so it won't take long

If I get chance before I leave work I will try to break the scene down into a simple diagram which will explain the basic principle

Ant

mister3d
08 August 2012, 03:18 PM
Afraine, thanks man. It's strange, but I still cannot recreate it like you did. Should be the water plane inverted so the normals facing the camera?
I setup material for the water like this: diffuse is black, refraction is white, reflection to fresnel, IORefraction to 1,33. And still it doesn't work. :banghead:

afraine
08 August 2012, 04:17 PM
Hi Mister3d, is that taken from the sample scene or from your own?

I may have missed one vital bit of information in my earlier explanations which is:

To capture the full window (Snell's window) the camera would have to be wide-angle, FOV of around 90-100 degrees I think I have gone for, or if you are using focal length this would need to be around 18mm

Your camera doesn't need this extreme wide-angle if you only want to capture part of the window

Here's a simple diagram...
http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=168601&stc=1

Ant

mister3d
08 August 2012, 04:35 PM
Thanks Afraine. But do we need this bubble at all?
Yeay, I think it worked! I made it facing up with those settings, and it looks like in your scene now.
Here's my test. Looking from it, almost no-one made it correctly, except for Cre8, but I'm also not sure. The window looks surprisingly small, as I got used to another look first.
http://i48.tinypic.com/312cvmv.jpg
Here's an unwrapped version for everybody. In includes max 2011 and obj file formats. It was unwrapped fast, and you can improve of course.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2cx9hzq.jpg
http://www.sendspace.com/file/lwfupo

afraine
08 August 2012, 04:57 PM
Thanks Afraine. But do we need this bubble at all?
Yeay, I think it worked! I made it facing up with those settings, and it looks like in your scene now. If you need an unwrapped version of the scene, I can post it.

To be honest I'm not actually sure the bubble is a necessity, as I can achieve the Snell window effect with or without it, I think the bubble is to ensure that any fog colour applied to the glass is calculated correctly (at the water's surface and then again at the bubble's surface - creating the illusion of a volume between the two objects)

I haven't actually got it turned on in my scene at the minute but for a while I couldn't get the effect without the bubble, I've got a feeling that the HDR in my scene is compressed into the 96 degree window with or without the bubble, just through the natural law of refraction in water

There is a hidden danger with using the bubble that I may have mentioned earlier, none of your elements will be useable, only your refraction would contain any information (this is a big hidden danger to be honest) which is why I turned the bubble off in my scene, without losing the snell window. It's pretty obvious now I think about it as if the camera is inside the bubble, it needs to look through it (refraction)

I'm now using Vray Fog instead of fog applied to the waters surface as it accurately results in volumetric effects and just looks better :love:

Confused much? Join the club

Ant

afraine
08 August 2012, 06:57 PM
Just had confirmation from Vlado @ chaosgroup that the 'bubble' is indeed only required to return the correct fog result for the water, if you're not using refraction fog for your water (in vray) then you dont need the bubble, although you will still need a relatively wide angle camera to capture the snell window

Ant

mister3d
08 August 2012, 06:59 PM
Just had confirmation from Vlado @ chaosgroup that the 'bubble' is indeed only required to return the correct fog result for the water, if you're not using refraction fog for your water (in vray) then you dont need the bubble, although you will still need a relatively wide angle camera to capture the snell window

Ant
That's really great, thanks a lot for your help. Now we can move on with correct settings without eyeballing it. ;)

afraine
08 August 2012, 07:20 PM
No probs, happy to help

"If you know it, share it!"

Cre8
08 August 2012, 06:22 AM
Hi guys, i will put a tutorial together that shows step by step how i have set my scene up thus far.Then we can compare notes and grow together ;)

For those interested, here is an animated short film that takes place underwater.I was responsible for the lighting, shading, rendering and compositing.It's stylised, but it might serve as inspiration ;)

http://vimeo.com/19475041

Will get cracking on the tutorial soon.

Cheers,

Ben.

Cre8
08 August 2012, 09:15 AM
Hi guys, here is a breakdown of my scene so far.I use Lightwave 3d, but the aim of this breakdown is that it might share some ideas that could be used in any 3d package.I love working in Lightwave, it's very user-friendly and the tools are easy to comprehend and use.For those of you that might be interested, i have added a link to an interview that 3D World Magazine had with me on the use of Lightwave in our animated short film, "Hooked", which also takes place underwater.
http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg508/bencpr4/HookedArticle.jpg

I would like to point out that this is not the final layout that i'm using for my scene.I start off with a basic scene so that my test renders go nice and fast and when i'm happy with the general lighting setup, i move on to adding additional geometry detail.

Something that definitely helps alot is if we get some good reference of an underwater environment that's more or less like the scene that you want to achieve.Study the physical properties of what you see.I found it useful to write down specific elements that need to be achieved.

The first thing that i focused on was the fog volume that obscures our view as we look off into the distance.This definitely helps create the feeling of mass that the water has, water is transparent, but it has all sorts of tiny bits of plant matter and little grains of sand that the current could quite possibly have scooped up from the riverbed.

In this image we have the distance fog that i added for the general water mass.I selected a bluey green colour, purely because i find it aestheticly pleasing.You can do your own colour based on your taste.Not everyone will paint the same picture.My ref pic had more of a browny colour to the water mass and less fogginess, but this is now where i take artistic license and tweak it to my own taste.
http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg508/bencpr4/1_Dist_Fog.jpg

My environment fog was created in 2 passes, one for the water mass and one for the riverbed floor, where i have ground fog to try and subtly give the idea of soil sediment being present in the water.
http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg508/bencpr4/2_Soil_Sediment.jpg

And here are the two fog layers combined.
http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg508/bencpr4/3_Combined_Fog.jpg

Here are my settings for the fog in the screen capture.
http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg508/bencpr4/4_Fog_Settings.jpg

And here are my settings for the water surface.The settings were boosted a bit and also tweaked not according to scientifically correct settings, but settings that i think looks artisticly pleasing.The settings were pushed so that the water still looks right through the fog, with my standard settings the water looked somewhat dull, but amping it up to taste kept the water looking right.Bump was added to the water surface, a procedural turbulence texture within Lightwave.I did find however that the bump wasnt enough to make my specular light react properly with the water surface.I then added the procedural texture as displacement to the water surface and voila!
http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg508/bencpr4/5_Water_Settings.jpg

I hope this information is of some use to you guys, please let me know if there is anything that's not clear or sounds strange ;)If there is anything else anyone would like me to share please let me know, i'm not sure if my methods make sense, but i usually use my tools to achieve something that i think looks good, although it might not adhere to certain scientific laws :)

Thanks guys,

Ben.

afraine
08 August 2012, 09:24 AM
Hi Ben, I saw Hooked in 3D world magazine a while back and it took my breath away, the style and execution is awesome! :eek:

Glad to have you on board for this challenge, I really like your layered approach as opposed to getting it all in one pass, it really gives the water a sense of depth and scale

Looking forward to seeing your image, we've all got our work cutout to create something even half as good as 'Hooked'

Ant :thumbsup:

visua
08 August 2012, 04:07 PM
@afraine: It seem like I can't get the snell-effect without the bubble (maya/vray) any thoughts on that?

afraine
08 August 2012, 04:14 PM
Hi Niclas, could you briefly explain your setup so I can see what might need to be changed?

Ant

kanooshka
08 August 2012, 09:09 PM
Glad to see this discussion taking place. You shouldn't have to do anything special to achieve Snell's window. It's simply the way the physics works with the refraction of the sky. That said, the water surface will not inherently achieve this effect without a displacement map and/or bump.

Thanks for the info Cre8! Hope you have time to come up with a final image for the challenge.

Panupat
08 August 2012, 01:04 AM
Afraine - thanks for the break down :)

Visua - the ground fog is really neat. Thanks for sharing.

Cre8
08 August 2012, 06:09 AM
Hi Kanooshka!

Yes, i would really like to achieve a final image for this challenge.Things are a bit hectic at work at the moment,got 3 commercial jobs runnning, so where i can spend some time on it i will.I'm planning on using Lightwave 11's instancing extensively and some Z-brush'ing on the boardwalk legs.

It's so cool to have this forum running, i've looked for other lighting forums, but this is the best one out there in my opinion.Thanks for taking the time to run it ;)

Afraine: Hi mate, you know what, i'm sure your image is going to look great, especially if we see the level of precision you are putting into your research.That shows passion!Keep at it man ;)

Cheers guys!

Ben.

visua
08 August 2012, 08:41 AM
So my setup works as expected in 3ds max(@work with vray), and the same setup fails miserably in vray for maya(mac-version). Interesting ;)

typografschaft
08 August 2012, 09:30 PM
I also gave the model a crack,
my aim was to make something colorful,
not so much based on actual physical correctness.
It's now much more looking like an aquarium and
not an underwater scene in the wilderness :-)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28253825/UnderTheBoardwalk05.jpg

(Right click and "Open image in new window" for a 1280x720px preview)

GecT
08 August 2012, 01:05 AM
Is anyone getting corrupted uv issues with the .ma and .obj files?

Libor
08 August 2012, 06:53 PM
Hi everyone!

Some really nice pictures here...

Heres my try using maya (MtoA) its still wip but I wanted to try out some postproduction using Nuke (color corrections, fx)

..hope to post another more fine tuned version soon

zbugja
08 August 2012, 06:36 PM
hello fellas, I'm back for this challenge, here's a wip, will tweak stuff later. http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8305/shackh.jpg

pixeldompteur
08 August 2012, 03:07 PM
Hey guys! Here's a first wip...

http://philippdollinger.com/cinema4d/lightingchallenge/UnderTheBoardwalk_v01.jpg

Highres (http://philippdollinger.com/cinema4d/lightingchallenge/UnderTheBoardwalk_v01.jpg)

Nurgle88
08 August 2012, 04:10 AM
hey everyone. I'm definitely excited for this challenge, haven't done much with water yet. I'm trying my hands at using Vray and really liking it so far. I'm just running into a snag trying to get the shader for the water to work correctly. Like for instance I'm not getting that rippled/wave effect needed. For some reason it just looks a blank plane no matter what I do. I've got a bump and displacement going on too. Still new to Vray so maybe it's just some settings I'm missing or something. Any help would be very much appreciated. (vray-maya btw)

Good work so far and good luck to you all!

pixeldompteur
08 August 2012, 08:29 PM
I fixed a few caustic flaws and darkened the deeper areas... any critics appreciated!

http://philippdollinger.com/cinema4d/lightingchallenge/UnderTheBoardwalk_v02.jpg

Highres (http://philippdollinger.com/cinema4d/lightingchallenge/UnderTheBoardwalk_v02.jpg)

davidhansson
08 August 2012, 03:27 PM
Ok,, here's my attempt.. I like some parts, but there's a lot that could have been bettter.. critique are welcome.. however, I think it got a quite mysterious feeling in some way! Made in maya..

by the way,, sorry for the small thumbnail, that you have to click.. does anyone knowe how to post a an image larger than 97 kb?

MartyD
08 August 2012, 05:52 PM
I remember the original challenge #5. At the time I was in awe of the amazing images that were posted, and still am to be sure. The software was the difference between worthy and struggling back then, and, of course, still is, but the technology hasn't slowed down, and newer algorithms have made a lot of headway in the right direction.

This image is from Vue and its built-in tools. Lighting is global with a single source, the sky and atmosphere are with the Spectral model, the floor is populated with an Eco-system, ocean surface is with a Sea object which is also responsible for the murkiness, the physically accurate caustics and the surface reflection. The darkish blotches in the sky area of the surface are from water foam and I might want to remove those. All rendered with default Superior settings. And also added a slight focus blur in post.

Subsurface translucence on the lily pad which resulted in excellent shadow effect was a nice surprise.

Still looks like a cartoon to me, but I like that. Oh, the Dragonfish is a DAZ character.

edit: Caustics aren't actually accurate. Trying to finesse the scene and running into the usual difficulties helped me to realize they're simulated. Sorry 'bout that.

750x1000 cte

CGtownie
08 August 2012, 12:05 AM
//*[@id="post-body-4894024772431006203"]/div[1]/a/img

//*[@id="post-body-4894024772431006203"]/div[3]/a/img

This is my final image for the (FLASHBACK) Lighting Challenge #5: Under The Boardwalk challenge. It has been difficult getting enough time to work on the scene with my summer job underway. My textures are done, but the lighting needs finessing. I also need to add a light fog, to achieve the look of a swampy northern Canadian river (my reference picture of dock steps).

With some editing, I have managed to create reflective light waves along the water's surface. I loaded an ocean shader into a directional light, like a GOBO image to project the light patterns. I have also added a matte to imply that there are a lot of trees overlooking the dock. I have not been able to create realistic looking water distortions. Any suggestions? I still want to properly finish the scene.

http://sandraherman.blogspot.ca/2012/08/flashback-lighting-challenge-5-under.html

Software used: Maya and Photoshop :lightbulb

afraine
08 August 2012, 01:46 PM
Hello everyone, just a quick message to say that I've been ridiculously busy with work this month and haven't had any time to progress with my scene since the initial tests I did

Hopefully I'll be able to join in another challenge, good luck to everyone

Cre8
08 August 2012, 12:01 PM
Hi guys,

Here is my final image for this challenge, i would like to have done more, but i am still on a commercial job, but no excuses, i feel i did my best with the time i had.

Thanks for hosting another great challenge, it's so refreshing to have these scenes to work on while on commercial jobs, it's so far removed from cell phones and flying icons, so it helps me to stay passionate about lighting and shading ;) Here is a link tothe larger image:
http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg508/bencpr4/Under_boardwalk_Ben_Cooper.jpg

Cheers guys, i'll see you in the next challenge.

Ben.http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg508/bencpr4/Under_boardwalk_Ben_Cooper.jpg

Nurgle88
09 September 2012, 01:41 AM
hey everyone, hope all is well with the challenges. I may not be able to finish in time for it but I still like working on it. Have one question though. So far I think I've pretty much got everything the way I want it. The biggest problem I am having is achieving a good caustic look. I'm using Vray(maya) and using the caustic options down at the bottom of the Indirect Illumination tab. I'm using just a standard maya spotlight with vray extra attributes as my caustic emitter, no diffuse/spec, but whenever the render comes out there aren't any caustics and nothing in the caustic pass of the render elements.

Not sure if if somethings need to be changed with my water shader or what. Kind of at a loss here atm. Any help is greatly appreciated.

jojo1975
09 September 2012, 08:47 AM
really great images. One question to cre8 :) how did you made the "dirt" on the stones ?
Giorgio

kanooshka
09 September 2012, 02:58 PM
Renders are looking great! Is everyone ready for me to close the challenge or does anyone need an extension?

Cre8
09 September 2012, 08:03 AM
Hi jojo1975,

The algae and micro details in the scene were created with Lightwave 11's new powerful instancing tools.

I assigned an instancer to the rock geometry layer in my scene.I then told it to grow the algae on an assigned surface, which is the rock's primary surface, and then tweaked random size and rotation.It really was that simple.And because they are instances, it has a very small hit on render time and memory usage and is fully supported by Lightwave's GI and shaders. which is obviously great for lighting.

If you would like a more in depth description of the usage of instances in Lightwave 11, i will do a tutorial that illustrates the step-by-step process, especially if more people are interested in seeing it, as it does take time and effort to put it together ;) These tools are easy to use and great for environment creation.

All the best to you guys,

Ben.

jojo1975
09 September 2012, 03:29 PM
Hello ! yes it will be a great pleasure to have a deeper view on how you used the instancing tools :) Thanks again
Giorgio

Cre8
09 September 2012, 06:15 AM
Cool, i've compiled a tutorial on instancing in LW11, i'll create a new thread and put it in there as it is rather lengthy and doesnt have anything to do with lighting, so i dont want to spam this thread with a 19 page tutorial ;) I will post a link in this thread for it though if anyone is interested in checking it out.It's great for fleshing out an environment quickly.

Cre8
09 September 2012, 06:56 AM
Hi there, here is a link to the instancing tutorial:

Hope you guys find it useful ;)

J202020
09 September 2012, 04:41 PM
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6990/utbwphasei.png

Here is my WIP. Traditional Lighting without GI.
I use ocean shader for the water. There are artifact on the water surface. Not sure whether it is a bug or not.

J202020
09 September 2012, 02:30 AM
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6990/utbwphasei.png

This is my WIP.
Traditional lighting without GI. There is some artifact generated by the displacement map which provide by Ocean Shader.

mister3d
09 September 2012, 11:51 AM
Renders are looking great! Is everyone ready for me to close the challenge or does anyone need an extension?
I'd like it to be extended if it's possible, but of course if you feel it's time to close it's fine. For how long can it be extended? Thanks.

CGtownie
09 September 2012, 02:07 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VvNfHgRCDfA/UGCgaZ9Y3SI/AAAAAAAAAjU/o3uPhn2c12I/s640/sept24_lyrs01.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Emj4zpFeWic/UFcoWH8OAYI/AAAAAAAAAhw/SikV6jYunHU/s640/sept16_boardwalk_murky_sept16_01.jpg

The look of my last WIP was not very realistic, so I've started to experiment with caustic light distortions. So far, I've managed to create a fog, which implies distance. What I need to do now is create a division between surface and water, which is where I am stuck. An ocean shader could create this illusion?

The overall look should be mysterious and murky when I'm done, like the green version here.

http://sandraherman.blogspot.ca/

Sandra :)

Cre8
09 September 2012, 06:39 AM
Hi guys, i was just wondering, when is the deadline for the challenge?

Does anyone know?

davidhansson
09 September 2012, 04:17 PM
Hi guys, i was just wondering, when is the deadline for the challenge?

Does anyone know?

kanooshka (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=212966) says in the first post it's the 31 Aug 2012,, I have no idea if the deadline has been changed or something..

prestonplatt
09 September 2012, 06:28 PM
I wish this comp had more structure like it did back in the day. I would love to see the 3D render website commend the awesome lighting with being featured in a gallery like they used to. Or even on this forum. I think you might bring some interest back to these challenges like the good ol days.

Cre8
09 September 2012, 06:00 AM
I agree, we take the time and effort to take part and now it feels like the challenge is kind of dead in the water, excuse the pun.I do understand that the organisers are working professionals and that it might be difficult to find the time to administer the challenge, but for at least 3 weeks now, nothing has happened.

kanooshka
09 September 2012, 12:36 PM
Good work everyone, unfortunately this has turned out to be my last challenge as organizer. You can see my full post here http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=7422926#post7422926

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