View Full Version : which renderer better for max? please vote!
06 June 2002, 04:11 AM
which renderer better for max?
mental ray, finalrender, vray, brazil.........
06 June 2002, 01:19 PM
finalRender, it just kicks ass!
up-to-date, fast, accurate, many functions and well intergrated :)
I like it! mentalRay is too old and slow, Vray is not THAT
fast and somehow very limited. Brazil is not bad, but
too slow for real good images. 12 hours for some normal
GI-pic is just too much :thumbsdow Perhaps the 1.0 is
faster.... perhaps... :)
06 June 2002, 02:11 PM
Funny, Brazil last version is 30 % faster :)
I am looking in a way of buying Final Render though. It just has everything you need!! Quite impressive :)
06 June 2002, 06:41 PM
Final Render just Rulez. Rulez over them all :xtreme:
06 June 2002, 01:26 PM
Personally Final Render is not my cup of tea. Its interface stinks. I heard though that Stage1 would fix that.
Vray is fast and the interface is alot better.
MR is cool, but the connection is missing tons of features.
I like Brazil r/s the most.
But use what you find best or can afford, vray/MR/fR doesn't have a free version like the Brazil r/s pub test so for many people the choice is very easy. The free vray version should come soon.
06 June 2002, 12:10 AM
all of them are good, even max default!
what are you planing to do?...need GI?...need fast raytracer?
need caustic?...need good DOF effect?..all of them?..none of
06 June 2002, 07:42 AM
take LW tthen you wont need another render engine
06 June 2002, 10:09 AM
ok hey guys, first post hehe:beer: . this topic interested me quite a bit because i am just starting up on max (been feeling it out for about half a year and only used r4) and a pinch of maya; and what happens to a person like me with gaining skill but no real solid direction is just checking out all i can possibly do with making stuff look real, making it look cool, real cool whatever!:thumbsup: . Big time render platform analasys is what it comes up to.
So, my opinion, i've used mental ray a lot in the beggining and if seems to be the fastest raytracer if you do everything right, but what i hate about it is how butt slow the GI can be in comparison to get that near perfect result. also theres that problem with "blah blah after emmiting 10000 photons" lord knows that makes you want to find something better, but its damn good in my eyes. I dont know about the best, it cant do everything..SO onto--->FinalRender..........now thats movin up the ladder.
FinalRender is pretty darn good i'll give em that. if you dont want something picture perfect but you want that GI in there plus all that other fun stuff like sub-scat etc. you could do it..fast. one thing though which i think they will (need to) put in stage-1 is their own motion blur engine . Max's deafult multipass solution sucks the big one and we all know that by heart and mind. Also, Finalrender's DOF solution is just as bad. those two things no one can disagree with to my understanding. Oh and by the way i know that Finalrender DOF is much better that MR z-blur DOF i know all about the flaws with it. oh thats right... mental ray DOF is based on z depth, so it just blurs the image accordingly without messing up foreground(not bad) but the flaw is this.. if there is an object very close to the camera.. can you see it? theres no background data for the "edge of your camera lens to see. and thats fr's claim to fame as far as "the DOF is slow but its quality". yeah well lets move on to.. i havent had v ray that long, so i havent figured out how to do much that rivals other platforms but i hear it kicks. but on to brazil.....brazil??
BRAZIL now thats what i'm talkin' about!:buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock: owooah!!
I have to say i like brazil the most. man some of those render times are killin me though but as far as good looking simple GI (straight skylight with like 3 bounces, 30-gi rate, -4 -4 gi samp. with that, on beta.226 i could pretty much always beat out anything i could accomplish in final render both speed AND quality.
try it yourself. but once i stuck in for instance raytracing or DOF, as with anything BOOM. bye bye computer for today and tonight and tomorrows today and tonight if i want my new wallpaper the way i want. oooo its bad.. but we all know that its just because its not optimized its just multiples, permutations and what not that dont seem to fit into time very well. but yeah i was reading about what steps splutterfish did to get get brazil off the ground so quick, (2-3 builds a day right about now from what i hear) and you can see that thats the only logical thing to do right now is just that. to get it known then start off optimizing and rebuilding.. thats what everyone does its just that brazil isn't even at 1.0 yet, and even since its first betas it was priduction quality(oh and btw the reason they got rid of the time limit was because we probobly dont have 60 days waiting.. i could be wrong but thats the smart thing to think) i have my bets on brazil as the final product platform of choice. whew i'm giving myself carpel tunnel and scliosis at the same time typing this out thats all i have to say about that, i guess. have fun testing them all out
06 June 2002, 07:24 PM
I like Vray.
06 June 2002, 02:29 PM
personally I like brazil alot. It's fast, flexible and looks quite good. Ofcourse you could switch to Lightwave (which is in my oppinion the best damn rendering system - plus it has the best modeller second of maya) if you want to spend some cash :)
At the moment Brazil is free-of-charge (and free of version 1.0 too :P) ... You can obtain it from www.splutterfish.com :)
06 June 2002, 03:56 AM
Lightwave is the best renderer for Max!........:scream:
06 June 2002, 03:57 AM
And the Modeler kicks Maya butt!:shame:
06 June 2002, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by wgreenlee1
Lightwave is the best renderer for Max!........
And the Modeler kicks Maya butt!:shame:
Obviously you were smoking dope when you wrote that message.
1. Lightwave is the best renderer for max!? Surely you meen Lightscape old boy - And no it isnt. Lightscape is good for architecture - but thats about it.
2. Modeler kicks Maya butt!? One - 3dmax doesnt have a modeller/scene split. Two - Maya is unbeatable in modelling. And I'm not the only one with that oppinion. Try every major special fx studio ;)
I'm out - l8rs.
06 June 2002, 04:56 PM
finalRender for me...been testing it since early alpha. It has it's quirky interface but you get used to it soon enough. The GI quality is better than VRays imho. Huge scenes (in units, not polycount) can get difficult to render fast (solved in Stage-1). Subsurface scattering (3S) is cool and it's got fast fuzzy raytracing. DOF sucks big time but that should be addressed in St-1.
Brazil: looks like it's got awesome quality but at least the public alphas are slow. Boost fR's settings and you'll get equal quality at equal times. Got dispersion which fR does not, neat effect for glass. It's also easy to use. But...it's also long overdue. By the time it's out all other renderers will be in version 2...
VRay: I don't like it. Interface very easy and the renderer is fast but qualitywise not on par with fR and Brazil. The GI often looks flat and without shadow detail. The SSS has it's problems (as does admittedly fR) AA and DOF is really fast though. It's also got micropoly displacement (though limited from what I've read)
07 July 2002, 04:10 PM
Im with Brazil, besides all the things everybody said, I think its the most stable renderer, simply because it administrates the resources by itself, It will have single frame distributed net rendering, sss, and the DOF in the new release is very fast.
It´s true splutterfish has been taken too much time to release it but I think they want to be sure that everything that the "brazilians" are expecting will work propperly....... we´ll see.
07 July 2002, 10:30 PM
I prefer Brazil also...
find it much more easier to understand than Final Render...
07 July 2002, 11:55 AM
I think the best is Brazil (absolutely) for the quality
For Quality and speed I think Final Render is the best For rendering but for set up it you need too much time. (the workflow and the interface are very bad)
VRay is the quickest with the right quality.
That's my opinion
Bye from ITALY
Fade of Light
07 July 2002, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by iLL
personally I like brazil alot. It's fast (...)
You are kidding right? (smoked dope when you wrote it? ;))
07 July 2002, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Fade of Light
You are kidding right? (smoked dope when you wrote it? ;))
Just because your civilization is high on dope 24/7 doesn't meen mine is.
Everything said here is to be taken in "contrast". Look at the other posts for example before you post a lame comment.
Yes, it's fast - for that kind of image quality.
If I just wanted a fast renderer I would use the standard scanline bullshit but then everything would look like chunks of lego and I would make more money walking down the street yelling "I have a melon on my hat" and forcegrabbing my own ass with both hands.
Now we have that settled - Yes I do believe the Brazil r/s is the best. It offers superb quality which for once doesnt go hand in hand with the usual long rendering times.
I'm done here. Need to goto bed. Need food, need Coca Cola, need sleep. Homer go crazy ... ?! :(
l8rs guys - keep it real. :)
Fade of Light
07 July 2002, 01:08 PM
I commented with that 'dope' thing, because you said it to someone else before...
I only agree with you because the pub version is free, which is absolutely great of course. But still is too slow...(talking about the 0.2.26d version. maybe they improved)
And the scanline renderer can be 'good enough' when you know how to use your stuff before you press render
and nope, in holland not everyone is on dope 24/7/365
(how fast someone can be stepped on his toes :shrug: )
07 July 2002, 09:27 AM
0.4.53 has been out for a week less than 2 months.
And yes... Its alot faster, more compatible than 0.2.26.
07 July 2002, 03:06 AM
Virtualight is free with a free max connectoin
it has a very fast raytracer and gi
07 July 2002, 03:24 AM
Brazil Render is not faster than Final Render :buttrock:
final Render rulez
07 July 2002, 10:19 AM
Only a question how many time you must do rendering to see if the parameters that you have choose is wright or wrong.
The settings is very expensive in terms of time in Final render
Maybe in rendering is a little quickest than brazil but not for all purpose of images
I hope you'll understand my bad english
Bye Bye from Stefano -Italia-
07 July 2002, 07:22 PM
yes but Final Render, is one of the most powerfull Render for MAX, +/- U$ 600 , and has Volume Caustics, HDRI, Volume Light, Object Light, Sub Scattering Surface, Soft shadows, and much more, and has the "pop star" a true fast GI... is not so hard to understand his interface, the cost/ benefit of FR is very very competitive
07 July 2002, 11:58 PM
Vray is more quick
traslucency too like FR
I think that the GI is not at the level of mental ray in terms of quality but the cost of MR and the time for rendering ..... but MR for example can distribute the calculation of a frame (ONE FRAME) on the network machines.
Second the artifacts is too much
Hey I must say that Ilove Final Render but I think that is not a commercial version too much problem (patch 1.4)
07 July 2002, 12:53 AM
FinalRender™ over here :)
Not only that it's faster and better (cough, yes it is, cough), but it also works with Render Effects in MAX in contrast to Brazil's own long-awaited-necer-to-be-seen FX. Personally, I use PRMan and Maya at work for most of the time, but when I do stuff with MAX, FinalRender + XDOF is all I need, except for Shave&Haircut which is the only tool I'm wating for from splutterfish.
I was once a big evangelist for Brazil, and I strongly belived in it's potential, but even I have time limits.
07 July 2002, 12:40 PM
well, in the last time I played around with VRay and it's
a real alternative to finalRender. I never thought I would
say this :).
But I just have some problem with it's color
bleeding. Most of the time it looks pretty unrealistic :(.
So, I'm really waiting for finalRender Stage-1 :buttrock:
07 July 2002, 02:35 PM
Final Render for me please! :)
2. Modeler kicks Maya butt!? One - 3dmax doesnt have a modeller/scene split. Two - Maya is unbeatable in modelling. And I'm not the only one with that oppinion. Try every major special fx studio
-> Try Mirai (or only Nendo, the modeller) and find out what it means to have a good modeller :)
07 July 2002, 09:23 PM
Dudes, heh. I once too was pro-this, contra-that type of dude. Expirience has thought me some other shit. Sounds corny, but really, tools isn't what makes the art. I've started out as a programmer, so I thought tool was what makes the art, heh.
Seriously though, MAX has nice poly tools, Maya has better, Lightwave has great ones too (if you can cope with it's workflow), Mirai has a novle approach.
It basically comes down to which work pipeline works for you. For me, personally, Mirai is what comes close to my mindset, I like the magnet operation on move/rotate..., and those nifty cool ideas like bridge tool (Softimage bought out those ideas for XSI, hint). Then, again, I like to set an overall shape with points in Lightwave, make polygons out of them and rough out the volume with extrude, too bad I'm used to model with edges, which LW lacks.
We've come to an age where almost all tools provide efficient setup for modeling, you just choose which one you can navigate.
Ofcourse, excellent tool gives you an edge, but it's not the prime thing you have to look for anyways.
08 August 2002, 05:12 PM
My conclusion of all this:
If your going for Speed: VRAY
If your going for flexability: FinalRender
If your going for quility and ease of use: Brazil
If you have too much money and time Mental Ray
PS: This thread is not about modeling!
08 August 2002, 05:14 PM
By the way: I use Brazil
08 August 2002, 05:34 PM
The one renderer I can't see any merit in is MentalRay. I bought the thing when it first came out ($3000 ouch). I assumed that I would be able to upgrade. Forgot discreet's attitude :p
discreet did the same thing they did with Raymax and Lightscape. They deliver and then forget about it. No upgrades ever.
MentalRay v2.1 is not a solid renderer. They'd just added a slew of new features, and they didn't really solidify things till 3.0 (which pretty much rocks, from what I hear).
I don't expect discreet to ever offer an upgrade to the connection, so if you bought it now you'd get an old version of Mental Ray that would get more and more out of date as time goes on.
Not that I'm bitter :p
01 January 2006, 07:00 AM
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