CGTalk - Character: The Shogun

Drakaran

11-02-2003, 06:08 PM

the anatomy looks pretty good so far. a couple of proportions are off, the mouth is set too close to the nose and needs to be brought down a little, the width of the head, side-to-side appears too narrow, but it's hard to tell from the angle of the pose. The length from hip join to knee is to long in comparison with knee to foot. The length of the leg looks right, just the knee is too low. The heel is also squished a little too much as well, there would be some compression, but since there is a bone nob in there, it shouldn't be quite as much (at least to me). The arch of the foot is too pronounced and wouldn't curve so much in a standing position. It's hard to tell from the pose, but the butt may also not be quite round enough as well. I like the skirt/dress thing, but that armor or whatever piece over the midsection looks really odd. Detailing is really really nice. where the cloth touches the back, I'd actually dent the back muscles/skin a little as it would be rl (though if you are just covering it anyway, there isn't any real need). really nice work!!!

KolbyJukes

11-02-2003, 09:36 PM

Drakaran - thanks for the the thorough critiques, very much appreciated. Yes, I'm aware of the akwardness of the body armour, it's only a proxy at this point. I'm working from a character design by Gerald Brom, the armor seems to be a cloth/hardbody combination, I'll be fitting it to his body so he bend. Thanks again.

Jeffro - thanks for your response. I realize the mesh is dense, I'm going to be doing full muscle deformation on this character, so a lot of the un-neccesary/relaxed lines may be used later in the deformations. Still, I'm certain there are a number of wasted edges, as I modeled this character quite quickly. I'll go through and clean them up. Thanks again.

JasonA

11-02-2003, 10:41 PM

I like it so far, I think the face has a personality already. overall the muscles and anatomy look really good to me, I think its a great model so far. look forward to the completed armour :)

Baskiat

11-03-2003, 12:37 AM

I agree with Drakaran except for the mouth part. I think that this is quite relative... we always see pople with all kinds of anatomy.. from those with "perfect" shape to those with more weird curves...
I think that a model not so perfect will have more attitude and personality.

DoctorStopMo

11-03-2003, 07:39 PM

Nice work, KWAK! Updates!

KolbyJukes

11-03-2003, 10:46 PM

Thanks for the comments JasonA, Baskiat, and DoctorStopMo, your replies are much appreciated.

Small update this time, I'm just working on the corset, I've thrown away the old hard-body version and gone with a more fitted body-glove type thing.

Comments as always are welcome, I'll be updating again soon.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/corset%20turnaround%20copy.jpg

KolbyJukes

11-04-2003, 08:24 AM

Another Update,

redid the dress thingy.

IMAGE REMOVED - thanks to my stupid server.

valu

11-04-2003, 02:16 PM

Very nice work. I like the clean mesh you did,even with so much details!!!

Thumbs up !!!

Wiz

11-04-2003, 04:11 PM

Awesome stuff ,waiting for some updates :)

DoctorStopMo

11-04-2003, 08:25 PM

Excellent cloth modeling! Is he supposed to be an actual Japenese shogun, or just a guy named Shogun? His features don't seem very Asiatic to me, but this is a very, very cool model nonetheless :D.

Pi3141

11-04-2003, 08:55 PM

Wow, the modeling job you have done on this is incredible! I must commend you for your patience ;)

KolbyJukes

11-04-2003, 09:11 PM

Hey all,

thanks valu, wiz and Pi3141 for the encouragement, it's appreciated.

@ DocStopMo: No he's not supposed to be Japanese, check out the Brom painting the character's based on, I figure the guy is European or something...I'm not sure. I'm just calling him the shogun cause he carries what look to be Japanese Samurai swords. One of my teachers said his hair is an ancient Chinese style, I really don't know. Thanks again for the comment

@Pi3141: there's not much patience involved here, except with the damn cloth. i bulldozed through the body and head in about 25 hours spread over a couple days.

Updates soon, my teach doesn't like his new robe either, so i gotta do it again...bah...I tire of modeling cloth, perhaps it's time to give him arms.

little neck update, I re-edged the neck to get the tendons running back to the ears. I'll put up a more significant update tonight.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/new%20neck.jpg

-Kolby

eYadNesS

11-04-2003, 11:25 PM

Nice work KWAK, good model so far, I like the muscles very much

p0lym0rph

11-05-2003, 07:37 AM

great model!

buzzlightyr

11-06-2003, 01:16 AM

This guy is mad lol, what will he be used for?

KolbyJukes

11-06-2003, 05:17 AM

Hey guys,

This model is going to be used for my demo reel, no real purpose besides that, I really can't animate, so I'll probably hand it off to one of my buddies who'll put it through it's paces.

I'm going to be (hopefully) full muscle deformations (over the entire body) as well as face shapes, etc.

Right now I'm adding gack/swag (techie bits, armor and such to spice up the otherwise boring costume, expect updates in a day or two).

-Kol.

Drakaran

11-06-2003, 05:55 AM

I don't blame ya there! Rigging is definitely for the birds! You add a little here so the skin creases right only to have it bulge wrong somewhere else. It's mind-numbing stuff. LOL I'm already starting to think about my next project to model hehehe

KolbyJukes

11-06-2003, 11:14 AM

Wait till you see what I got planned, at very early stages right now ;)

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/Region%20copy.jpg

Edouard

11-06-2003, 11:50 AM

Verry nice work!!!! your modelling rules

Pi3141

11-06-2003, 11:52 AM

Those arms are very cool!

Great modeling talent you have there. I'm definately keeping my eye on this one

neversong

11-06-2003, 12:00 PM

beautiful.

nice work, kwak.

Drakaran

11-07-2003, 07:40 AM

the armor looks much much much better! this is looking really awesome. Great work!

KolbyJukes

11-07-2003, 08:45 AM

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/new%20costume%20copy.jpg

I'm starting work on the pants, next is the boots.

I'm glad some of you dig the armor. Updates soon. I've been lazy, but I'll pump a bunch of stuff out over the next couple days.

-Kol.

insanepoly

11-07-2003, 08:54 AM

Love the modelling on the muscles. Its a shame you have to cover up all those beautifully sculpted leg muscles.

KolbyJukes

11-07-2003, 09:08 AM

the_hand,

thanks for the response, yeah, I'm hesitant to model the pants, but in my reel i'm only going to show the pants and other clothes for 1 rotation, then it'll be nothing but skin for the remainder of the rotations and deformation tests.

BTW I'm a big fan of yours, I absolutely love your Shiva challenge entry, as well as that spectacular elf killer. You're an amazing modeler.

Thanks again for the comments everyone.

-Kol.

deddy

11-07-2003, 06:03 PM

incredible model....
very cool indeed.!!
how about some wires?

elnady

11-07-2003, 09:11 PM

Very good
Keep updating him i like your modeling;)

vizion

11-07-2003, 10:51 PM

Bang up job so far man. keep it going..

KolbyJukes

11-08-2003, 01:49 AM

tiny update,

I'm a lazy bastard, and I'm not getting much done, here's a rough of his cloth glove and gauntlet, I've still gotta go in and smooth the lines, I'll be at this all night, so undoubtedly I'll post some more updates.

Again, thanks for all the comments guys, it's very much appreciated.

-Kol.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/Region%205%20copy.jpg

hackie

11-08-2003, 06:19 AM

ah...sweeeeet.
this is the nicest model that grabs my attention in WIP!!!
cool...i like clean line-flow on the mesh. i think you must be in modeling stream at vfs huh?
plz update me with your progress!!

ji revolutions¢â

KolbyJukes

11-08-2003, 07:12 AM

Hey Hackie,

Yeah, I just started the first term in the modeling stream at VFS. Thanks so much for the compliments.

Updates very soon.

here's the last one for the night, need some sleep:

you can see the start of the boots here, and the newest, revised version of the body...the arms need a bunch of work, but I'm leaving that for later.

-Kol.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/newest.jpg

3DKnight

11-08-2003, 03:57 PM

Looking good, the mirrored wrinkles on the clothing removes a bit of the realism though. Wrinkles are supposed to be more chaotic on tighter clothing, the mirrored look of them on his gut wrap kinda bugs me a bit,

also his feet look very small,

but other than that, looking good

Agent 47

11-08-2003, 05:29 PM

THis is looking great. No crits either.

Ususally when someone does a human they create a huge forehead. You seemed not only to avoid this, but to make everything else perfect as well. I especiallt like the stretching between the pecs in the earlier shots.

Great Work!

Nostradamus

11-08-2003, 05:44 PM

bloody amazing, and inspiring! :)

nanabaky

11-08-2003, 05:56 PM

that's just excellent, but i regret one thing : he really doesn't look asian (japanese) at all... toobad for a "Shogun"...

But that's brillant, for the while :p (and i gess it will be impressive when finish :) )

KolbyJukes

11-08-2003, 07:43 PM

Hey guys,

3dknight- the wrinkles on the abs are actually asymetrical, I built both sides separately, it may be difficult to tell at this angle though, I'll make some changes, cause as I look at it, they are looking quite symmetrical.

nanabaky- Shogun is just the name I'm giving him for now - I seriously doubt he'll retain that title on my reel. I never intended him to be asian, I'm following the look of the Brom painting. I realize now that I probably shouldn't have called him that.

Thanks for the comments guys. Updates again today.

-Kol.

Adam

11-08-2003, 08:43 PM

looks really good so far.. I like that by the size of the wrinkles you can tell a difference in cloth material but I think the changes make the top seem like silk while the pants seem like joggers which is a little weird for such a serious character.. Anyway it looks really great so far

KolbyJukes

11-09-2003, 05:34 AM

update: glove

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/glove%20copy.jpg

mmProj

11-09-2003, 06:04 AM

this is great ! .... i love your cloth folds ...... welly nice !

if you are interested in a crit .... the flow of muscle between the back/inside of his knee to his upper calf should maybe be more defined..... looks as if the insertion of his calf is way up the back of his knee..... hope this is clear............ just look at the area in the second last pic you posted.... it seems alittle off.

GREAT WORK.

RedFish

11-09-2003, 07:42 AM

Really likeing this.... keep it up.

inaktive

11-09-2003, 08:41 AM

really nice... how bout some low res wires?
or high res if thats all you have

p0lym0rph

11-09-2003, 09:15 AM

great work,maybe the finger are little shorts or not?

KolbyJukes

11-09-2003, 11:23 AM

polymorph: fingers are too short, I know, I'll be fixing up the glove very soon. Thanks for the response.

inkative - sure I'll post some wires, gimme a day or too, I'm in the middle of cleaning up the mesh.

mmProJ - I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

k, more updates tomorrow.

I just modeled the samurai sword.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/NEW.jpg

gunslingerblack

11-09-2003, 05:56 PM

flip the samurai sword over, even if he's not asian u wear ur samurai sword blade facing up, he's wearing it blade down.

calebs

11-09-2003, 06:25 PM

very nice. i like the detail. i can't wait to see this in action.

DoctorStopMo

11-09-2003, 06:31 PM

Wow, great updates! The level of detail is phenomenal! Must take hours to get right :). Keep up the great work, though! It's definitely worth it!

KolbyJukes

11-10-2003, 02:03 AM

gunslingerblack - thanks for the tip, at this point i prefer to keep the swords as they are, asthetically I prefer them hanging as they are. Thanks again.

update.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/NEW%20RENDER.jpg

jdsb

11-10-2003, 02:04 AM

great modeling skills,coming along great.

gunslingerblack

11-10-2003, 02:10 AM

it's cool it's one of those things that doesn't matter if u dont care about it, i forget the reason why they wore blade up but it was some good reason anyways i love the muscle structure of the model, and the early face closeups looked like a character from ninja scroll, what modelling method are you using? i know u said which program already but i was too lazy to turn back the pages ahah anyways keep up the good work

keep going

KolbyJukes

11-10-2003, 02:18 AM

wow...those were some quick responses...thanks guys.

gunslingerblack - I'm using the box modeling method in XSI. Which character from Ninja Scroll?

gunslingerblack

11-10-2003, 02:21 AM

the huge dude with the giant blade that's thrown

gunslingerblack

11-10-2003, 04:05 AM

my friend brought up a good point i want to bring to light, i know you like his design, but how is he supposed to move around? in a fight his swords will be moving around so much that he wont be able to find them to draw them for the attack and when he does find them he'll already be cut, they look really nice sitting still right there but as my friend said "what are the strings supposed to become totally rigid when he wants to draw" i know it might be splitting hairs but it might take the model to the next level if u can have a cool looking design that's functional as well as "astetically pleasing", also i dunno if uve ever sat on a sword before but i dont think he would like that very much , thats why the japanese could either take them out or move them depending on where and how they were sitting. the strings offer some mobility but not enough to move the swords to the side for him to sit

KolbyJukes

11-10-2003, 04:08 AM

shoes: bigger update tonight.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/Region%20copy.jpg

neversong

11-10-2003, 12:02 PM

beautiful modeling. :)

usually, those who uses that kinda sword/saber..

need more speed than power,

so naturally, the armor tends to be slim. I think.
(just my opinion after watching a lot of japanese animations.)

:D

again, great job.

KolbyJukes

11-10-2003, 12:03 PM

all good points gunslingerblack...

no, the cords are not capable of becoming rigid on command -

I had always planned to put his smaller sword at his waist, however, it is not out of the realm of possibility for a samurai to carry a sword dangling from his obi (sort of a belt). This would never be worn into battle, but is meant as some sort of ceremonious dress.

Check out this samurai clothing (http://www.samurai-archives.com/clothing.html) website.

Anyway, I appreciate the comment, I will definitely put one of the swords in his belt. And as for sitting on the swords...they're sheathed, so it might be uncomfortable, but he wouldn't cut off anything vital.

updates soon...gah. i need a vacation.

-Kol.

EDIT: @ neversong:

do you think his armour looks bulky? I had always thought it rather sleek and streamlined - as it covers only a small portion of his body - and is fit to the natural curves of the anatomy (at least in the case of the pec, ab, and pelvic armor). the glove and boots are a little more obtrusive and heavy, but that's a stylistic choice - gotta love the big anime robots. it seems a lot of samurai warriors wore this kind of armour (http://horse.shrine.net/samurai/image/takenori.jpg), quite a lot of plating and cloth it seems, but I think it was pretty light weight. i appreciate the response ;)

neversong

11-10-2003, 12:12 PM

I was talking about the boots and the left hand armor.

it's just the stereotype that I have,

that those armors look like used for heavy weapons.

I don't intend to criticize, just what I frankly feel looking at your design.

+ hey, your work is great.

KolbyJukes

11-10-2003, 12:25 PM

no new additions, just though i'd give a turnaround.

right click > SAVE TARGET AS:
Kolby Jukes - Shogun - 5.2 MB - Cinepack codec (http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/Kolby%20Jukes%20-%20turnaround2.avi)

gunslingerblack

11-10-2003, 06:37 PM

yes my friend an i are quite familiar with samurai dress, and it just so happens im getting a kaku obi for kenjutsu this christmas, no your right it isn't out of the realm of possibilities for it to be hanging from his belt but it would still be hanging from the side and yes it wouldn't be a battlefield practice, which our boy the shogun looks like hes headed for, unless ive totally missed something and ur gonna put him in some sort of cerimonial garb.anyways keep up the good work i can't wait to see more of what you have.

mental

11-11-2003, 09:58 PM

hey kwak,

excellent model, my only crit which someone else mentioned earlier is that the fingers look kind of stubby. i'm not sure if it is because of the glove's design that it makes the hand appear shorter than what it is but it does look like the fingers or the hand overall could be perhaps 1.5x longer than what it currently is.

also... though you're going for the modeling track at vfs... do you plan on texturing or even rigging and animating him?

-mental

mayhemation

11-11-2003, 10:14 PM

wow this is an excellent shogun character. very nice work with the physique, something which is very hard to master.

nothing to criticise here.

KolbyJukes

11-11-2003, 10:42 PM

mental - very true, the hands are too short, I'm currently working out proportions (these include the length of the figers and overall proportions of the hand). Yes, he'll be rigged and textures, animation...maybe, I'm not much of an animator, but I'll get my buddies to give him a go.

Mayhemation - thanks for the comment.

KolbyJukes

11-13-2003, 03:15 AM

doing a vein pass tonight, then modeling a couple more accessories. updates soon.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/test%20copy.jpg

Drakaran

11-14-2003, 11:04 AM

hmm eh? what happened to his pants? they make his legs look short and squat, and those boots would be terrible to wear in a fight. *sigh* so much for functional fashion. I really thought he looked better without gettin him all armor coated as well. nice modeling even if I don't like the changes.

TheRow

11-14-2003, 02:20 PM

As drakaran said.. whats with thouse pants? and boots? wearing them in a battle would prob get one killed... nice details thou...

Some things to fix about the modell..
His left leg seem to have missed the boot a bit..
the right arms cloth don't have any thickness...
His crouch looks... well I don't whant to wear pants that does that to my crouch...
the legs also seem to be a bit short for a fighter like him.. (buts thats just what I think personly)
This are things u prob would fix any way.. and if so sorry for pointing them out without a need.

This modell have great potanciall, Make sure he woops ass ones he's done.

Impactor Return

11-14-2003, 02:36 PM

wicked work.

Im reminded of solidus from Metal gear solid 2 for some reason...

KolbyJukes

11-14-2003, 10:23 PM

Um....what's the matter with the pants?

People tend to wear pants into battle. Pants much like these. It's that or get your willy cut off during a sword fight.

He'll wearing a robe over all this.

As for his shoes, I'm sorry you don't care for the design.

-Kol.

Ozzman

11-14-2003, 11:44 PM

wow man. Your model is superb. I cant see any problems -but i think his bones near neck are too visible, boots are too "tough". Thats all for now. good luck

KolbyJukes

11-18-2003, 03:18 PM

was unwrapping today:

here's a 45 minute test texture:

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/Copy%20of%20Region%20copy.jpg

EdmX

11-18-2003, 06:27 PM

hey Man....
you´re doing a great work...

congrats..
the only thing is bugging me is the body proportions.
I can´t put my finguer on it..but i took your pic in photoshop to ilustrate what i mean.
The male body usually is 8 heads tall.
the legs looks little off for me.

here it go

http://invis.free.anonymizer.com/http://edmx.0catch.com/proportions.jpg

otherwise looks really good.

keep on going

KolbyJukes

11-18-2003, 06:42 PM

wow. Thanks for taking the time to do that Edmx...I've actually already fixed that problem, I have a revised version of the model I haven't yet posted, in which I've fixed his stumpy legs.

Thanks again.

-kol.

EdmX

11-18-2003, 07:04 PM

that´s no problem man...

waiting to see foward.....

:thumbsup:

Bulba

11-18-2003, 09:03 PM

Really good clothes modelling!!!!

Rano

11-18-2003, 09:22 PM

The model looks awesome! I wish I could do it! But why are you avoiding the genitals? I think it's a challenge to model that :)

KolbyJukes

11-18-2003, 09:51 PM

I really have no problem with modeling the genitals, but for right now I'm leaving them out, perhaps when I come back and remodel the costume in a couple months i'll add a twig and berries.

Thanks for the responses. Very much appreciated.

-Kol.

Drakaran

11-19-2003, 07:45 AM

I don't really understand why you're adding genitals, it's really not needed unless you are planning on some nude shots. You could just sim it with the cloth you have there for the pants...

KolbyJukes

11-19-2003, 09:40 PM

I'm not adding genitals, at least not now. He will appear nude on my reel.

-Kol.

mmProj

11-20-2003, 10:14 AM

lovely test uv unwrap back up there ^^^ !

i never noticed it before i saw the unrwap test but his collar bones look broken ...... well ...... where his join in the upper mid chest ....... they are really far apart there.... maybe its because they are so pronounced at the top of his chest, maybe give some thought to easing his upper chest into the clavicle as opposed to a the definition line you have there.

maybe its just me ...... anyways keep up the posts .... great work !

KolbyJukes

11-20-2003, 06:57 PM

I think you're right about the collar bone mmProj. Thanks for pointing that out. Today I'm going over the entire body model and softening/relaxing the muscles, it's looking far too flexed to me these days.

Thanks again for the comments, regular updates starting soon.

-kol.

EdmX

11-20-2003, 07:29 PM

oh man..
modeling genitals...male!!!!!
holy.....
don´t do it..unless u reaaaaly need...

:]]

KolbyJukes

11-26-2003, 06:16 AM

a paint-over of how the textures might look. face still a WIP

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/test.jpg

gunslingerblack

11-26-2003, 09:15 PM

hit up alittle gaussian blur on that tatoo right now it's alittle too crisp tatoos dont look that sharp in real life. coming along nicely, he's still gonna sit on those swords though lol

chalkeye

11-27-2003, 01:15 AM

sweet as, but right trouser leg is still uncreased, it sticks out pretty bad.

i reckon a nice dark red would look way better than blue, IMHO...

KolbyJukes

11-27-2003, 02:18 AM

Yeah, i just creased the other leg, I'll post an update soon enough, I'll try a rusty red color, thanks for the suggestion.

-kol.

CuTnPaste

11-27-2003, 09:46 AM

Hey....spectacular!

a QUESTION: how the hell you rig the model?? I mean, it seems to have million of polygon........

did you have a low poly cage to manage the bind of the skin?

thanks

Drakaran

11-27-2003, 11:06 AM

there's something about the skin... have you put a bump on it? I also agree about the tattoo being too clean, I'd hit it really light with a blur or something. did you change the pants? they don't look quite as bulky now. blemishes look good, the shading of the creases look a little overdone. good work!

konst

11-27-2003, 03:00 PM

Stunning work. I can´t understand how you have done all this so fast. I like the model and the skin texture is great. But I think that it is to smooth.

Do you study CG or have you learn all this by yourself? Because your skils are great.

Waiting wiht exitement for updates.

EdmX

11-30-2003, 01:18 AM

is going pretty good..but the skin still looks plat]stic a little...

waiting to the final..
;thumbs up;

KolbyJukes

11-30-2003, 01:25 AM

For those that don't understand, that wasn't a texture, it was a paint over.

This is a sample of the actual texture. I'm about 75% done with the color map on the body, then i have to do bump and spec, then onto the clothes, please ignore the crappy lighting. All hand painted.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/texture.jpg

-Kol.

avalon

11-30-2003, 01:39 AM

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Great model &Wonderful texture

Drakaran

11-30-2003, 07:05 AM

ah! that's a really nice looking update! the texture makes the model come much more to life. great work!

KolbyJukes

11-30-2003, 10:24 AM

My first pass at my textures is about 70% done, this is the color map only:

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/naked%201.jpg
http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/naked%202.jpg

Drakaran

12-01-2003, 06:59 AM

his crotch screams for a Mattel logo hehehehe. nice hair job, I feel like he's got a package an everything even when he doesn't. kinda weird sensation..... the vein work is also awesome!

good stuff

Windmill

12-01-2003, 08:03 AM

wow.. a real pro. stunning modelling + textures (and they're not even complete yet). I would really like to see it with bump etc on. keep it up.

Yoshua

12-01-2003, 09:40 AM

Outstanding Work! Just Greatness!

Seems pretty realistic, I love the armor too, especially the ones on the Arm and Legs/Foot.

My only crit is that the nipples look centered? Move them out a bit, closer to the armpit.

Thanks

Atwooki

12-01-2003, 10:12 AM

Looking realy excellent, Kwak :)

I know you plan on getting your 'bump' in at some stage soon, and I can see that along with other maps your going to achieve a superb 'reel piece' there :)

My crits would be that the intercostal muscles perhaps need a little more definition to match the 'build' of the rest of the torso, as with those pecs he'd be breathing a little more deeply than most(!)
the forearms need about an extra centimetre and a half in length - slightly towards the 'wrists-end';
the area where the ligaments of the 'sterno-mastoid' muscles' of the neck meet the clavicles need to brought forward slighlty, as they are supporting a fairly heavy looking head....
also the inner ears would benefit from a little more depth of definition, also....

Atwooki

KolbyJukes

12-02-2003, 01:09 AM

Thanks to everyone for comments and crits, they're very much appreciated.

I'll take a look at the things you suggested Atwooki and genesis.

Back to work, I've done my rig, and am currently weighting the character, then back to texturing, updates soon.

-Kol.

dmonk

12-02-2003, 01:14 AM

Excellent, Excellent work! I'd really love to see your technique for texturing.

Keep up the good work. I hadn't noticed this thread until now!

KolbyJukes

12-02-2003, 11:14 AM

dmonk,

This is my first real texture, so I'm really glad you like it.

I'd be happy to share my texturing techniques with you...what specific aspect of the texturing are you interested in? I mean, there's a lot of steps involved in making the skin, hair, etc.

more updates soon,

-Kol.

sinistamunkey

12-02-2003, 01:16 PM

Thats an amazing model :)... I can't really see much to crit, sorry :(

I love it, great work :)

dmonk

12-02-2003, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by KWAK
dmonk,

This is my first real texture, so I'm really glad you like it.

I'd be happy to share my texturing techniques with you...what specific aspect of the texturing are you interested in? I mean, there's a lot of steps involved in making the skin, hair, etc.

more updates soon,

-Kol.

The hair and the pigment it's spot on. Are you using a photograph or just handpainting everything. Is your character Asian, even if he is not I would imagine hime a bit paler, but it's your character and it still looks great.

KolbyJukes

12-02-2003, 10:44 PM

Hey Dmonk,

I took a few color samples from a photo for the skin, but it is all handpainted. He's not asian, he's caucasian, I think of German descent.

KolbyJukes

12-04-2003, 09:52 AM

front and back, i've been cleaning seams lately so, more updates eventually.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/back%20front.jpg

EDIT: The tattoo is not my design, I referenced an image found on the internet.

CuTnPaste

12-04-2003, 10:03 AM

HEY.......

How did you made the MAPPING ??????!?!?

WOW.....

maya?

great result

sinistamunkey

12-04-2003, 10:04 AM

I have never been into character modeling until now... you are such an inspiration :)

I feel like modeling a human now :)

KolbyJukes

12-04-2003, 10:39 AM

The map was built using:

XSI, photoshop, and seams cleaned in Deep Paint.

Sinistamunkey, I'm glad you like it. I hope your human goes well.

-kol

CuTnPaste

12-04-2003, 11:58 AM

ohhh....thankS!

ok...I'm working on a maya human model....
I'm studying some tips to cross multiple mapping areas....
...in order to blend the annoying joinings between different body zones (like the join between the texture of the arm and the texture of the body).

asap some rendering...

bye

Alouette

12-07-2003, 10:24 PM

Yor character look contracted.
has he a tetanos attack!

I find it great but i think that muscles are a bit excessivly contracted in a rest position.

great texture too.

Gkaine

12-10-2003, 12:53 PM

great work kwak... are you currently attending VFS? if so how is it, i am thinking of attending their myself

this really is amazing work all around

Daolohua CnC

12-10-2003, 01:15 PM

Very nice model!

Some crits one might have is on the proportions of the face. Usually, the jaw to the bottom of the nose, the bottom of the nose to the top of the nose, and the top of the nose to the hair line are equal 3rds. Its kind of distracting from an near perfect anatomical model.

Also the reason that the swords are on the side are so that the samurai can walk freely as well as draw them. And they're facing up because the katana and wakizashi are pretty much long razor blades (sharp as hell but fragile). Having them face up prevents damage to the blade during any movement or drawing the sword.

Again... great model!

KolbyJukes

12-11-2003, 12:40 AM

Gkaine - yeah, i'm currently 6 months into the program at VFS, it's pretty good. Of course, it has it's problems, but for the most part I'm satisfied, I've certainly learned a lot, my CG has come a long way. PM if you want to ask specific questions.

Daolohua - yeah, I remodeled the face a couple weeks ago, I just haven't gotten around to posting it :). It had about a million problems. Interesting about the swords...thanks for the info.

I'm currently making blenshapes for the muscle deforms, which is unbelievable fun. The texture is more or less done. I'll post some updates and some test animations in a few days.

EDIT: here's a capture of my first deform test, I've set up about 6 shapes (abs, pecs, a couple shoulder, shoulder blade). Here's quick test of him moving.
first deform test - sorenson .mov - about 260k (http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/cgtalk.mov)

Daolohua CnC

12-11-2003, 06:51 AM

hey great deformation! i especially like the abs.
the shoulder movement made me notice that the nipples are a bit too close together, they should be farther out on the pectoral region.

As a fellow xsi user, i'd be interested as to how you rigged that... care to share?

Rye

12-11-2003, 07:47 AM

This is looking awesome, but the arms are either too short, or the torso is too long...I'm pretty sure its the latter. The elbow should come just a bit above the bellybutton (maybe an inch or two), and the wrist should be just above the bottom of the crotch. Right now it looks like the fingertips line up with the crotch instead.

KolbyJukes

12-11-2003, 08:31 AM

Daolohua - i'll check my ref on the nipples, thanks for the response. I'll post a detailed breakdown of the rig/shapes later if there's futher interest, i'm pretty tight for time right now.

Rye - just as i posted the video, one of my buddies pointed that out to me, I don't how i missed it. Needless to say, it's already been fixed.

Further updates soon, I got about half my muscle shaped done today, i'll do the rest tomorrow, then it's faceshapes and some more texturing.

AlvinG

12-11-2003, 08:54 AM

I......I think......WOW!!!

Man, your work is really awesome!

Odie

12-11-2003, 12:28 PM

hey man this is awesome work. Only thing that bugs me is that there seems to bee too much indentation behind the collor bone and also the fingers seem a little stubby.

But this is top knotch 3d. I wish I could do work like this. Keep it up.

Odie

12-11-2003, 12:28 PM

oops dbl post.

3D_Mike

12-11-2003, 01:06 PM

great work, madly detailed

gunslingerblack

12-12-2003, 02:35 AM

great work on the model i like the deformation test but quicktime is a little twitchy on my computer so i could only watch it once before it crashed the browser blah , anyways i just wanted to respond too to daolohua's comments about the katana, the sword was worn on the side because it's easier to draw a curved blade wearing it from your belt, also i dont know how fragile they were the method employed to smith the blades made them extremely strong and the strength added to thier cutting ability as well as the curve, a curved surface absorbs more of the cutting blow and allows for more power to be applied across the surface area of the blade, and lets not forget the more power you apply to a smaller surface area on impact the power is multiplied by some crazy factor (physics is neat isn't it? and im an art major) so that also helped, however the way they wore thier swords was a combination of quite a few different things, same side different side depending on the style or preference of the user and ive seen alot lately that samurai had thier wakasashi on the right side and katana on the left and the wakasashi is more often than not blade down when in this position, there can be alot of different reasons but, musashi's book of five rings suggests something so simple as putting a sword in this position so that when you draw them you dont cut your hands off during the sword draw, this is also why you would have the sword blades face up to draw with ease and to not cut yourself in the process. haha i also just realized something as i picked up my bokken to test something, drawing the sword with the blade down i noticed that it came out at some wierd angle while when i drew the sword blade up it came out in ready position with the blade down, maybe in the need to eliminate unneccessary movement?i was also just informed to deflate any further argument at the fragility of a katana that ninjas used them to pry things open haha have u ever seen a prybar that bends or breaks? and yes ninja did have katana. sorry to be so far off topic but i figured if anyone ever wanted to use katanas for thier pieces it's good to know alittle bit about them, keep up the good work

shyy

12-12-2003, 06:47 AM

looks nice, good modeling

KolbyJukes

12-12-2003, 10:46 PM

A test render of some of the new shapes. Starting face shapes today.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/test%20render%20copy.jpg

RIG:

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/rig.jpg

Drakaran

12-12-2003, 11:23 PM

muscle flex is looking pretty good. thanks for sharing

Antonbomb22

12-12-2003, 11:24 PM

wow it looks great:D keep going;)

KolbyJukes

12-15-2003, 09:41 AM

Hey all,

here's my face rig, I'll post some right tests later.

http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/face%20rig.jpg

The control isn't finished yet, I still have to add the phenomes, and a couple extra shapes.

p0lym0rph

12-15-2003, 09:49 AM

great work 8-0 !!!

Strang

12-15-2003, 02:43 PM

yes!

so glad you posted, i was almost jonesing for some more updates. and you put up something i really wanted to see, facial rig! :)

the controls are really easy to read (and i dont mean i can see them good) and understand how to control him...

maybe a bit of insight how your linking the controls to the mesh, in XSI terms plz :)

-Strang

3DKnight

12-15-2003, 04:10 PM

the face rig looks kinda liek the "stop staring" setup..

what setup do they teach you at VFS?

KolbyJukes

12-15-2003, 11:30 PM

Strang: Gimme a couple days, and I'll give you a detailed tutorial of how the rig is created...You're using XSI I presume?

3DKnight: what's the Stop Staring setup? this is the way they teach us at VFS...I just made my control panel pretty :)

-Kol.

Strang

12-16-2003, 12:21 AM

indeed kwak,

take as long as you want...
finishing modeling my character, wont be any good till then :)

laters
-Strang

Laa-Yosh

12-16-2003, 12:24 AM

Looking very nice! A couple of notes:

- Watch out with the muscle blend shapes, make sure that you properly preserve the volume. It is an easy mistake and makes the deformation feel wrong, you can see an example for this in the Square Animatrix movie's male character (his pecs change volume a few times...).
I've downloaded the quicktime movie on the previous page and it looks like your character's pec muscles pump up a bit in the arms backward position. The muscle should rather be thinner in this pose.

- This is just a suggestion, assuming that I interpret your facial rig correctly - but I'd rather not use 'emotion' shapes for the face, because it does not give enough control and can make transitions between shapes problematic.
I would instead break down the face into a few key areas, like eyebrows, eyes, lips, jaw, nose; and create the possible shapes for these, like left_eyebrow_inner_raise and jaw_open. This way you can mix any 'emotion' setting and even combine them as you wish to, and make the character talk, smile or whistle while his eyebrows and nose are in an angry shape. Also, this means no 'phoneme' shapes either, so lipsync is created with the existing lip shapes.
The downside, however, is that not all of these shapes would easily and flawlessly combine into proper mixtures. A method called combination sculpting is a possible solution, but it involves sculpting correctional shapes for practically all possible combinations (which is a lot). This of course is very time consuming... Also, this is the method used for Gollum. Most of the time you should be able to get away without correctional shapes, or only with a few for the extreme cases.

- One last thing, the knees of the character look quite strange on the XSI screenshot.

However it's a pretty nice character, can't wait to see it completed!

EdmX

12-16-2003, 12:17 PM

hey
nice stuff..
but...i think the arms are little bit disproportional..
to samll i guess..
and the shoulders troo.
don´t know can´t put my finguer on it..
is a sugestion

keep on going

JasonOsipa

12-17-2003, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by KWAK
Strang: Gimme a couple days, and I'll give you a detailed tutorial of how the rig is created...You're using XSI I presume?

3DKnight: what's the Stop Staring setup? this is the way they teach us at VFS...I just made my control panel pretty :)

-Kol.

The stop staring setup is the stuff I teach in my book. Micheal Ferraro actually did most of the UI/design work for the proprietary software at MF (v3), and then I took it and ran with it and moulded it quite a bit more. The reason you get taught this at VFS is the teachers used to work at MF, and know how to do this!

(The short answer, is, basically, yes; this is the stop staring setup) :)

EdmX

12-17-2003, 07:59 PM

i´ve the book;;;
it´s pretty good

..

:thumbs up:

KolbyJukes

12-18-2003, 03:00 AM

Hey Jason,

I've heard many good things about your book...it's an honour to have you post in my thread.

Yeah, I know the origins of the rig they teach at VFS lie at mainframe. My modeling teacher was an animator/rigger at MF i think.

La-Yosh

Thanks for taking the time to write your response, I'm aware of the loss of volume in my blendshapes - the test you saw was my first test of the shapes...and they have come a long way since then, but I have a lot of work to do before they are even decent. This is my first serious character model, so all of these elements - texturing, blenshapes, faceshapes, are a first for me...I'm learning a lot as I go.

I took your advice and broke away from the emotion based faceshapes and started doing shapes for the more subtle movements. However, the rig has gotten rather complex, so I have to go back and streamline this quite a bit.

---------------------------------------------

Thanks again to everyone for all the encouraging comments over the last couple months, you guys have been a source of inspiration to me. Due to the structure of the modeling stream at VFS, I must stop working on this character for awhile and go onto other projects (namely a set, and another character). I will be revisiting this character again in 2 months or so, during my last term at VFS.

Again, thank you for all the encouragement, comments, critiques and information. I'll be starting a new WIP in about 2.5 weeks. So please drop by and leave a comment if you get a chance.

Have a good holidays,

-Kolby Jukes.

EDIT: Strang, I'll post some info on my rig, in a couple of days, I need to rest a little first.

Strang

12-18-2003, 03:15 AM

Well good luck in school kolby, we all will be definately looking forward to the works in progress.

take your time...

later

-Strang

DangerUs

12-19-2003, 03:44 AM

This has been a very motivational thread that keeps me from gettn lazy haha.
Im working on my first major character as well and i have a few texturing questions. Firstly how many projections did you use for your body? And how did you deal with seams as they are a fairly big problem with my wip right now. I think i heard mention you use Zbrush, ill be trying to get a hold of a copy, Ive heard good things about it. But if i cant get the program do you have any suggestions on how to deal with them?

Thanks for sharing your work. Pz man

KolbyJukes

12-19-2003, 04:28 AM

Hey Dangerus,

I couldn't guess how many projections I used to create the UV map for my character - in XSI, you can freeze projections to keep the scene from getting bogged down.
Nope, I never used Zbrush for this model (I really want to try it though). I did however use Deep paint. It rocks, it's an easy way to heal seams. But I mean, it wouldn't have been much more time consuming to heal them in photoshop. I see you're from Vancouver, you don't go to VFS do you?

I'm glad I could be a motivation for you, hope your model goes well.

Thanks for the encouragement Strang, I'll get that info together for you soon.

-Kol.

DangerUs

12-19-2003, 08:04 AM

oh yeah thats right Deep Paint sorry my bad, yeah i jus learned about the heal tool in Ps it rocks. Hows Deep paint btw.

Sorry i kinda worded my question wrong, i meant how many maps did you use. I gotta start lookn into xsi i used i abit but kinda stuck with maya. I hear its easy to treat seams by making another projections over the seams, wonder if thats possible in maya.(open question to anyone i guess since youre a xsi user)

Yeah local 604er hehe but no i didnt go vfs wish i do though.

Hows school btw.

KolbyJukes

12-19-2003, 08:50 AM

I don't literaly use the 'heal' tool in PS, I just meant that as a figure of speech, I just use the brush tool in PS to clean up my seams. Sorry if that was unclear.

1 color map - 2400*2400 for the entire body and face. 1 spec of the same sixe.

I wish I knew how to use Maya, the school teaches it, but time is something of a commodity these days. Maybe next term.

Schools good, not perfect, but pretty good, I've learned a lot.

-Kol.

KolbyJukes

12-21-2003, 05:48 AM

Strang,

Here's my little how-to on the making of my rig, sorry if I'm missing some details, I don't have XSI in front of me and am doing this from memory.

(1) take your head, tag points on half the head (incl. the middle row) and create a cluster. now invert your selection (so you select the other half of your head (not incl. the middle row), create another cluster. Name the left_head and right_head or something similar.

(2) Create a bunch of duplicates of the head (for the face shapes you want to make), cut them and freeze them from your top model null. Name the duplicates accordingly: upper_lip_curl, bottom_lip_pout or whatever shapes you want to make.

(3) Sculpt the shape you want, then freeze your move components.

(4) Go into your model's operator's stack, select the left_head cluster. Go to the ANIMATE menu > shape > select shape key. Select upper_lip_curl, right click to end your picking session. A little name box will pop up, name the shape upper_lip_curl_right. Do the same for the right_head cluster. Repeat this step until you've got all your shapes stored under your left/right head clusters.

(5) Go to animation mixer, hit SHIFT+S to add shape tracks to the mixer. Right click on the shape track>insert source. pick your shape. Add more shape tracks and sources as needed. Turn their values down to 0.

(6) K, now you need to create the face console. Create an implicit square, move it to where you want. Rotate if needed (Duplicate, parent to itself if you want to 0 out your SRTs). Duplicate the square, make the duplicates a child of the original. Create an implicit circle (name it Upr_lip_curl_ctrl_R), make it a child of the original square, reset all transforms on the circle and it should snap into default position at the centre of the originial square. This will act as a slider for upper_lip_curl_right. You can duplicate this slider for the right side of the face.

(7) go back to the animation mixer, right click on the little key box next to the value slider, hit link with. Now link it with the local pos. x of the the implicit circle (Upr_lip_curl_ctrl_R). now right click on the key box and hit 'Set Relative Value'. Now move the circle control on the x-axis to the far end of your control box. Set the value of your shape track up to 1, and set relative value. Now grab the control circle and reset it's transforms. if you move the circle back forth on the x-axis the shape should work.

K, that's more or less it, I hope I remembered everything. I'm sure there are more efficient ways of setting it up. Remember, you don't have to use the rectangle slider box, you can always take an implicit square, rotate 45 degrees, have the circle sit in the centre, and then mix between 4 different shapes (like how I set up my eyebrows).

Feel free to ask questions if you have trouble with anything.

-Kolby.

schmu_20mol

12-21-2003, 10:27 AM

this is really some kickass work..... congrats KWAK .... can't wait to see the guy ready to rumble ;)

Strang

12-21-2003, 03:25 PM

awesome kolby! I really really appreciate this...

I am student myself, and i really enjoy XSI, any amount of knowledge, tips or tricks i get just makes my day!

VFS has softimage certified teachers, i believe...
the art insititute of fort lauderdale has maybe 2 guys that know anything. 1 is certified, (VFS grad i think) and i havent got to meet him yet... so anything you can teach or tell me is great...

good luck with school

later

-Strang

foxco

12-25-2003, 04:02 AM

HEY Kwak, love the modeling and i like how you posted the progress of your work slowly, awsome texturing too i dont bother using the z brush or deeppaint 3d, i find texture blending with alpha mapps works pretty ez

im also living in the lowermainland, i was wondering, how do you like VFS, im currently attending skool at Ai Cdis or Art institute of Vancover Burnaby campus, its totally stupid, they dont ask for a portfolio of any kind and they let in any one that can run windows, ive only just finished 2nd semester of 3 for my first year, myself and 4 friends are planning on going to VFS second year because we watch the demos from there, and WOW, we watch the demos from our skool and think WHY ARE we here, the atmosphere is ok but we find we can never get work done with the lack of inteligent peers around asking us how to creat layers and how to mesh smooth AHHHHHHHHH retardation to its maximum. but ya just wanna know your feelins on how helpful the instructors are what not

oh and just curious how long have you been going there

Thx

XsifoX

Gecko

12-25-2003, 07:23 PM

Awsome work !
i can't wait for more info about your rig...

Lukashi

12-25-2003, 08:36 PM

thanks for the tutorial!, nice work too

KolbyJukes

12-26-2003, 04:08 AM

XSIforX: I've heard mostly negative stuff about CDIS from former CDISers...but eh. The instructors here at VFS are pretty damn helpful, I mean it's not perfect all the time, but for the most part it rocks. Let's just say, you'll never exhaust any of the teacher's knowledge, they'll always have tons more to teach you. What are you interested in going into? I've been at VFS for 6 months now.

I use Deeppaint over alpha map blending because...well...that way it's another program under my belt. The way I figure it, the more you know the better.

Gecko: what would you like to know?

Lukashi: No prob.

I guess I never really did post the 'finished' model, I'll post it with a bunch of faceshapes and such when I get back to school in like 10 days (I misssss XSI!).

-Kol.

foxco

12-26-2003, 04:16 AM

thx man my buddies and i have been trying to get a chance to talk to students there, to here the real story, we got suckered into CDIS and we want to make sure the same thing dont happen again right.

6 months, nice just over half way thru. glad to here that things are good there, im definately makeing the switch

Fox

Strang

12-26-2003, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by KWAK
(I misssss XSI!).

i know how you feel, i can't get enough of this program...

can't wait to see some more from you..

-Strang

KolbyJukes

12-26-2003, 04:50 AM

it's not so much that I miss the program as much as I....<sniff sniff> miss modeling. There so many millions of things I wanna make, but so little time...ah well soon enough.

Good luck with the switch XSIfox, gimme a shout if you start in the next four months.

foxco

12-26-2003, 06:17 AM

Hey kwak, no i will not be starting in the next 4, i got 1 more semester to finish, im not even going to care about the marks, ive already started working on my demo so im going to focus my next severla months on its development and modeligng and abusing the skools new computers, which seems to be the only benifit of going there.

and you miss XSI, dont you have it at home, hahahahah

Fox

SirManfred

12-26-2003, 11:36 PM

Nice stuff, dude.
I'd love to see the UV-map of the body. The texturing is great. I could complain about a few things on the model but thats just too picky. So im gonna leave that since it does look great.
The rigging seems to be wonderful. I can't wait until i see some cool animation tests on the face and on the other stuff.

Ikari

12-27-2003, 02:33 AM

howdy

must say i really love your work, especially the kool muscles.

the final will be outrageous, this is a prophecy :)

KolbyJukes

12-27-2003, 06:39 AM

XSIfox: I WISH I had XSI at home, sadly I have a crappy computer at home, maybe eventually. Anyway, it's more fun to work at school.

Sir Manfred - Hey, man. I'm glad you like it. I'll post a taste of the UVs when I get back to school. There's about a million things I would love to change about this model, but that'll have to wait. I'll get to the animation tests eventually. Thanks again for the comments, much appreciated.

Ikari - Thanks for the comments, and the prophecy ;)

-Kolby.

onlooker

01-01-2004, 04:50 PM

That guy looks tough as nailz KWAK. Good job. This is the first time I've seen this thread, and I wasn't about to read the whole thing (time), but my only crit is the texture looks a little plastic-ish. I've never used XSI, but I think your pretty good with it. Keep it up. :thumbsup:

GOoch

01-01-2004, 06:39 PM

KWAK

Not posted many times in these forums but your work is indeed an insperation m8.;)

Keep up the good work and have a good new year :)

FUG1T1VE

01-01-2004, 10:31 PM

too many post... I just scanned throught the images. Amazing model. The texturing is very good. But being a warrior and all you plan on adding scars, or other things. Tatoo looks good, but I think someone said, its too shiny, unless its brand new :)
your second semester at VFS? people seem to be learning a lot in 6 months. not to mention leaving VFS with a great reel.

KolbyJukes

01-03-2004, 12:52 AM

hey guys, I never posted the finished model textured character, I fixed the plasticity of it. I'm going to be reworking the character in a couple months - make him older, slimmer, less muscular, give him some better clothes.

Yeah, I realize the thread is pretty long.

Thanks for the comments.

Antonbomb22

01-03-2004, 01:53 AM

noooooooooooooooooooooooooo,T_T(crys)

well if its going to turn out better, than fine>_>

nico3d

01-03-2004, 04:52 AM

EXCEEEELENT JOB !!! Can't wait to see more !

chrisJ

01-03-2004, 05:07 AM

Very nice man, very nice

coshey

01-21-2004, 09:16 PM

nice model! when are you going to post more!i would like to see your up dates if you have any ! I heard your making a set are you going to post that? i think that would be a sweet post!

feefunk

01-24-2004, 09:31 PM

hey KWAK, awesome work and great progress you've been showing. Just wanted to congratulate you on your professionalism.

Small crit (since you wrote you'll be reworking your model later on). You might want to consider tweaking the shape of the knees and the toes... they could be less bulgy and the toes maybe a bit flatter and less cylinder-like.

Keep up the great work. :)

KolbyJukes

01-24-2004, 10:03 PM

Hey Feefunk,

thanks for your comments and crits, Yes, I agree about the toes, I really got lazy when it came to the feet and didn't really finish them up - I'm already planning to redo the feet, hands, and hands completely. When you talk about the shape of the knees are you refering to the posed model or the unposed model...the strechiness of the knee cap might be due to unfinished weighting in that area, I will definitely address when I rework the character.

coshey - no set for you! :P how about you post some of your work up eh, I bet everybody here would like to see your beautiful set...

You'll probably see a new thread from on Wednesday of next week when I start my new character model - a creature :)

-Kolby

coshey

01-26-2004, 02:16 AM

thats sweet one critique though, i dont like your explicit content though!

FloydBishop

01-30-2004, 05:39 AM

I can't figure out which I like better, the model, or the materials.

Nice stuff!

enthombed

01-30-2004, 04:34 PM

Great Model man, are you crazy?? ehehehe wonderfull

Keep it up

enthombed

lukx

02-05-2004, 11:20 AM

Kwak grate work! I'm trying your tutorial and got one quiestion. How did you take care of teeth? I don't know how to make them move with jaw of my character. I know I can use shape to move them down. But to o that I have to tag point of the teeth, cluster them, store the key and and it to mixer. But then I can only move down or up my teeth and what if I whan them to rotate around null. You know when you open your mouth bottom teeth rather rotate then move straight down. Their rotate pivot is in the middle of the head. So do you have any idea how to solve this problem?

KolbyJukes

02-05-2004, 06:36 PM

I'm not sure I understand your problem, but I'll do my best to answer.

In order to make the bottom teeth move with the jaw, just parent the teeth/gums geo to the jaw bone/null, or if that doesn't work, place the teeth/gum geo under a null, put the centre in the correct rotational position, then constrain the position/rotation of the null to the jaw bone/null. Make sure you move your centre from the middle of the head to the root of you jaw bone.

Hope that helps.

-Kol.

EDIT: I realize I never posted any faces, here's a bunch of my facial poses created using my rig, you can see the rig/controller a couple pages back - these aren't final.

EDIT: I captured these pics out of an old faceshapes video, and due to a messed up aspect ratio the head is streched out.
http://www.vfs.com/~3d44kol/Pic_MiN/faceshapes.jpg

3D_Mike

02-06-2004, 03:00 PM

Very nice sir! Perhaps you could post some animated tests too?

ThomasMahler

02-06-2004, 04:51 PM

Looks really cool, although I'd think about those Blend Shapes... They seem a llittle too exaggerated to me.

Oh, I did not see that you built a whole facial animation system. Well, then... keep it up! :-)

PCollier

02-06-2004, 06:48 PM

Hey Kwak,

This is looking fantastic, great modelling skills I look forward to seeing this finished and on the front page :)

Reo

02-06-2004, 07:32 PM

WONDERFUL WORK

I love the face rig set up ...... you wounldnt happen to have a link to a tut or bwe able to explain it a bit ....to a fellow XSI user
.....

keep it up

KolbyJukes

02-06-2004, 10:15 PM

Broken_cycle,

Funny you should ask, check page 10 of this thread for a tut on how to make my face rig.
Thanks for the comments everyone, I'll be restarting work on this character in a couple weeks.

-Kol

EDIT: I'll try to post some animation tests in a couple of weeks, when I've finalized the character.

IMAREA

02-07-2004, 03:28 AM

The samurai guy looks very nice, however though he doesn't look too Japanese to me, but then again, it is just a opinion. Perhaps after you texture him a little , he will look very oriental and a fearsome Shogun lord!

Keep up the great work.

By the way, I'm having problems reducing the size of my files though, which I can't post my works.....could anyone help?
--Imari.

KolbyJukes

02-07-2004, 07:12 AM

Imarea,

As I've said numerous times throughout this thread, I never intended the character to be Asian, I just chose the topic name because the concept art had samurai swords and sounded fun, I have always imagined him to be of European (perhaps Germanic) descent.

He is already very textured, go back a couple pages and you will see the textured model.

Thanks for the continued interest in my model,

-Kol.

IMAREA

02-07-2004, 07:31 AM

Thanks for replying.

I'm sorry if I overlooked something important, I apologize, I would like to show you some of my own works as well, but unfortunately, I do not know how to minimize the size of the image, if you wouldn't mind, could you help me out?

The model is amazing, I am highly impressed at how you can make something so lifelike, your work is amazing. You truly must work in the industry somewhere correct?

Heber

02-07-2004, 10:17 AM

nice work kwak , great to see updates to this character , keep us posted, also i tried your explanation on that face rig and it works great , thanx :)

KolbyJukes

02-07-2004, 09:15 PM

Hey Imarea,

No worries about thinking he was asian, not a big deal. I've just had so many people comment on that, and it's begun to get repetitive...lol.

In order to minimize the size of the image, you're going to have to either use the image optimizer in Adobe Imageready (it comes bundled with Photoshop), or get a webhost to put your pics on the net. If I remember correctly there was a person offering free webhosting space in the general discussions forum.

I go to school, so no, I don't work in the industry.

Rayfusion: I'm glad the little tut worked for you, it's a cool way to rig faces.

-Kol.

RandomThoughts

03-18-2004, 11:09 AM

Hi KWAK, amazing model. I'm trying to learn subd modeling in XSI right now, moved from nurb modeling in Softimage|3D. I have a question about your object view "face panel" for facial expression/deformation.

The method you used seems like what I used to do in SI|3D for facial control: create your own slider, and constraint the animation to the circle's X/Y translation on the slider. My question is, isn't there a better way to do this in XSI? I know that in XSI there's a so called "synoptic view editor", I've never played around it myself (still in modeling stage), although I plan to try it out in the future. It basically allow you to use an image as object specific toolbar, allow you to script the region of the image (ie. click on Left Eye of the head image, it will pop up a customized window slider where you can slide for closing/open eyelid). I've seen it in action on one of the older XSI feature video on softimage website, I can't find it anymore however.

If you learned the facial panel slider from your current instructor (I assume he/she is a previous SI|3D user too), ask him/her about synoptic editor. If you know about the editor already, please tell me the reason you prefer the current setup.

This is just my curiousity, however, the end result is the same. Which is great model, great texture with great deformation for animation. I see I have much to learn and practice.

Oh and I'm going to Mainframe open house today afternoon too, I'll see you there. =)

Edit: I found the video on softimage website, here's the link, it was featured since XSI 2.0

XSI 2.0 Feature Videos (http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v2/videos/bk/video_dl.htm)

Jesse-Irvin

03-18-2004, 11:53 AM

I hope Kol doesn't mind If I step in and help answer this one.

Please note this is only based on my addmitedly weak understanding of the synoptic view.

First off, you are correct that the facial animation rig is a set up through "link with"s and expressions (actually I'm not sure if KWAK used any expressions) at least I assume thats what you meant by constraints.

However; as I understand the synoptic veiw it is coded to work like a webpage. By that I mean you click something in it and it might select that bone or object. Or perhaps run a script. I have not seen any synoptic views yet that really have any sort of interactive sliders built in that would be required to create a face rig like this. It would only work as you said, if it ran a script to bring up another window of sliders. The disadvantage to this is that you may end up limited to sliders whereas KWAK's rig is not (note the squares allowing multiple axis of movement)

I built a similar rig (although addmitedly with more sliders due to my 50 some odd face shapes and a bit of bad planning) and With mine I had several boxes, One for mouth lip sync shapes, one for the jaw movement, one for smiles and frowns (which worked individually on the left and right sides of the face as well as combined, Which I belive KWAK also did) and one for each eye.

The reason I prefer this setup (and yes I know you didn't ask me so 'm sorry if I'm butting in here) is because I can combine and automate multiple sliders. For example with the eye controls I not only had the control set up for the eyebal but also the lids which moved slightly with the eyeball.
The mouth smiles and frowns is another example, The box setup allowed me to combine my 4 shapes (smile left, right, and frown left, right) into a single controler that would also combine the half smiles into a complete smile in the top center of the cube and the frowns into and full frown at the bottom center. It also blended perfectly between all the extremes, Giving 6 full shapes and a million in betweens from a single control.

The same went for my Lip sync shapes which were blended between the four corners of the cube.

as for the jaw, I was able to use a shape to pull my cheeks in slightly as the jaw dropped which I linked to my jaw control.

Using just sliders I would have had to deal with an additional 13 controls at least for all those shapes. I may have been able to save even more sliders if I had not done my eyebrow shapes the way I did, and had I included forehead wrinkles (addmitedly a bad modelling choice, but I was young back then ;) ) I would have been able to combine even more shapes

Sorry Kol, i hope I didn't step on anyones toes and I hope this helps.

**EDIT**

I looked back at kols rig and he didn't set up the same mouth control I did so this post is a bit off the mark, but it does speak well for what such a rig is capable of and how it goes beyond that of the synoptic and sliders in terms of streamlining production.

I too will be at the mainframe open house I look forward to seeing you guys there. Though I see enough of KWAK already.