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Carm3D
10-31-2003, 08:57 PM
My thread got deleted because I lashed out against that german guy who was calling me names.

But I wanted to respond to your message: RTFM

I am using the docs file.. But you have to admit.. for a manual, its not very good.. There is no index. Finding things are difficult.

I was reading on meta-effectors.. It says to switch your object to "W" for weight view. I add a meta effector but the mesh is completely white. It's not behaving like the illustrations in the manual. And yet there's nothing further to read about it.. It's very brief. This is why I am getting frustrated with Messiah.. The manual is not helpful.

Try entering a search "Add Items to Weight Drawing List"

Tell me how helpful it is with it's response.

I want to figure this thing out.. I spent hundreds of dollars on it.. But it is quirky as all-get-out.

JoeCosman
10-31-2003, 09:05 PM
select your mesh, then ctrl-select your metaEffector.
click 'add items to weight drawing list'

for everynew metaeffector container you add, click the check mark in the weight draw list to make the current metaeffector field viewable.

hope this helps.


www.joecosman.com

Carm3D
10-31-2003, 09:12 PM
Hey Joe,

Thanks for your response.. And that's great for you to help me with this one issue.. But how would I find something like that in the manual? I didn't see anything of that nature (control-clicking) when I was reading through it.. that was my point. I suspect the manual is terrible.

Hmm.. I tried that.. Clicked on the model, ctrl-click on the meta effector and the drawing list tab disappears. It switches over to the MetaNURBS tab. Strange.

Carm3D
10-31-2003, 09:14 PM
Oh! I got it.. click the meta effector first.. THEN ctrl-click the model... And then I can add to the drawing list.. then I get the magic of effectors visible... Oy.

Bill_nuts
10-31-2003, 09:19 PM
Hey Carm3D

Just had a thought. Are you seeing all of the docs correctly for messiah. There is a menu down the left side of screen but your machine needs to be java enabled to see it. (think its java?)
My XP machine isn't by default.

Stick with it. Messiah does have a learning curve, just like any worthwhile software does. It does do things in its own unique way, but once you get over the initial learning hump, you will love this software.
I know its another cost but consider seriously getting Joe Cosmans training cds. If you can learn all thats on these disks you will know plenty. They show where everything is too in the interface.

cheers

Bill.

Carm3D
10-31-2003, 09:23 PM
Hey Bill,

Yeah that was a problem initially (Java), but that's not an issue anymore.

The tutorial vids are a bit too steep in price for me right now.. But I'll consider it later down the road.

So far, LW8 is still the winner for me.. I just hope it's stable.

fwtep
10-31-2003, 09:50 PM
Hi Carm3D,
The docs don't have an index but they've got a search tool instead, which is much better and speedier. The problem for right now is that some of the newest stuff isn't in there yet. The look-up table for the search engine is hand-made, so the results it gives are accurate. For example, if you look up "bones" it'll come up with pages that really talk about them, rather than a page that just happens to have that word on it (as in a sentence like "it's next to the bones button"). And because the new stuff is SO new, I haven't gotten it all logged in the look-up table yet.

However, it should be easy enough to find what any button does, because it's all laid out like the software itself. All you have to do is look at your screen, then go to that in the docs.

Fred

Carm3D
10-31-2003, 10:03 PM
fwtep,

Are you a Messiah developer? I have a feature suggestion..

Right now you have to slide up and down when using the magnify tool in a viewport. Can you make an option for sliding horizontally? Look at the mouse in your hand... slide up and down, then slide left and right.. Without lifting up your wrist. You will see horizontally has a much greater range of motion than vertically. It's a minor issue I know.. But it's an ergonomic one.

Thanks!

fwtep
10-31-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Carm3D
fwtep,

Are you a Messiah developer? I have a feature suggestion..

Right now you have to slide up and down when using the magnify tool in a viewport. Can you make an option for sliding horizontally? Look at the mouse in your hand... slide up and down, then slide left and right.. Without lifting up your wrist. You will see horizontally has a much greater range of motion than vertically. It's a minor issue I know.. But it's an ergonomic one.

Thanks!
I feel like it's more ergonomic the way it is-- you move in closer, or move out. It mimics the real world, and what you'd expect, better.

Carm3D
10-31-2003, 10:18 PM
Well I guess that's you vs. me.. I wasn't asking you to change it, rather than an option added. No matter.

lmilton
10-31-2003, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by Carm3D
Well I guess that's you vs. me.. I wasn't asking you to change it, rather than an option added. No matter.

Don't worry Carmen, I've added it to the List.

-lyle

Carm3D
10-31-2003, 10:51 PM
Groovy thanks. :)

SheepFactory
11-01-2003, 02:21 AM
i agree with carm on the zoom , a horizontal move is much easier on the wrist.

guys would it be possible to have preset controls for messiah?

It would be spectacular if we can select Maya , Lightwave , Max , C4d from a list and it switches camera controls to those of that software.

Wings 3d has that option and it makes jumping between softwares so much easier. If you want other software users to feel at ease while using messiah thats an important step imho.

Hope this helps ,

Ali

Jonathan
11-02-2003, 03:05 PM
It's no biggie Carm. It's just as the thread went on in the last post, it seem that you were asking a question without wanting an answer.

I agree that the manual is lacking and more is exprected of reverse engineering the samples than reading the manual. The problem with the samples is that meany of the common problems you run into are not there such as setting up weight maps for bones. I didn't know that you didn't have to parent the effectors to bones for bone weight mapping. I also didn't know that you couldn't move your model in setup mode or the effectors would be off target. Much more can be added to the manual to ease the pain of learning this software but once I learned it, I saw the advantages. However it would have saved me alot of time if the manual held more indepth information and because of this, I've been turned off to venturing to newer space. It takes more time than I have.

Carm3D
11-02-2003, 05:26 PM
> It's just as the thread went on in the last post, it seem that you were asking a question without wanting an answer.

If that were true, I wouldn't have been trying continue to learn Messiah for the past few days.

I'm having trouble getting soft-body dynamics to work with a weight map. (or getting it to work at all with a weight map in existence)

Julez4001
11-02-2003, 07:05 PM
Hey Carm, what exactly are you trying to get softbodies to do?
Is it a cape or a jacket... or something to that effect.

Carm3D
11-02-2003, 07:11 PM
Naw more like body parts.. secondary animation.

Locutus
11-02-2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by Sheep Factory

It would be spectacular if we can select Maya , Lightwave , Max , C4d from a list and it switches camera controls to those of that software.

Wings 3d has that option and it makes jumping between softwares so much easier. If you want other software users to feel at ease while using messiah thats an important step imho.

Hope this helps ,

Ali

I know this is off topic, but I'm just starting to use Wings 3D and if I want to set Wings3D to control like Lightwave or 3dsmax, how would I do it?
Thanks.

Julez4001
11-02-2003, 07:29 PM
Muscles, Fat jiggling.......

because if you look at my avatar and I use this trick in Maya.
After model the shape of the muscle or hanging body part, always compansate for the expansion of it. By blowing the area up in ur modeling program and taht will allow it to compensate for imploding.

Anyway, there may be a error with metaeffectors ...don't rename the source metaeffector.

If youa re doing attenaes or rabbit ears..use motion dynamics.

Jonathan
11-02-2003, 09:42 PM
You mean sorta like this Carm??

softbootie (http://www.btinternet.com/~jonathan.west3/images/butt.mov)

Carm3D
11-02-2003, 10:38 PM
Yeah exactly like that!! :)

So if I never rename the effectors it'll work? Does that mean the actual effectors, or the thingie they're parented to (The thing that appears when you first hit the + to add Meta Effector)?

Carm

Julez4001
11-02-2003, 10:51 PM
Yeah I duplicated the error several times but I gonna see if there is somethign else they may screwing it up.
The effector guys that are created from the metaeffector works just fine when renamed but the main guy gets wierd and may dropped.


Let me (us) if u need more help dude.

Alt solution: Push come to shove, just create a special surrface names for those areas and then go back and copy the surface features u want.

Jonathan
11-02-2003, 11:07 PM
I always rename my effectors without a problem. In fact just for kicks and giggles, I lovingly named those in my mov file jello left and right.

It was quite easy to set up, in fact these were set up in less than 5 minutes using 2 effectors so that the left and right butt cheeks would move autonomously. No parenting effectors either.

Carm3D
11-02-2003, 11:10 PM
Johnathan,

Can you show me a screenshot of your project tree showing the bones, meta effectors and soft-bodies involved in that so I can see how they're supposed to be set up?

Carm3D
11-02-2003, 11:12 PM
BTW: Is there a way to assign a keyboard shortcut to rename an item in setup mode? I'm using 3.3.

SheepFactory
11-02-2003, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by Locutus
I know this is off topic, but I'm just starting to use Wings 3D and if I want to set Wings3D to control like Lightwave or 3dsmax, how would I do it?
Thanks.


its under camera settings. I dont have it in front of me right now so cant check , but ask at the wings forum please.

Carm3D
11-03-2003, 12:23 AM
Do I have this set up wrong? The bones aren't effecting the object whatsoever:

Carm3D
11-03-2003, 12:28 AM
Nevermind on the bones question.. I fixed it.. I don't know how, but I did. They're working now.

fwtep
11-03-2003, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by Carm3D
Nevermind on the bones question.. I fixed it.. I don't know how, but I did. They're working now. You might have still been in Setup. They naturally won't work in Setup, because it would be impossible to position them if they were pulling on the geometry.

Carm3D
11-03-2003, 01:07 AM
Nah it was something to do with that right-hand tree panel in effects. The camera got in there so I think the bones were trying to deform the camera and not the object.

Now if only I can get soft bodies working...

fwtep
11-03-2003, 01:30 AM
Ah, OK yeah, that'll do it. :)

Julez4001
11-03-2003, 03:11 AM
Why don't u post a mpj file?
That we can take a look at it.

Carm3D
11-03-2003, 03:28 AM
Thanks to Sil3 on the IRC chat, it's working now...

For the uninformed: You MUST have more than one surface name in your model.. Even if your second surface has nothing to do with your SBD mapping.

Cheers!

Jonathan
11-03-2003, 07:04 AM
Here ya go carm.

http://www.btinternet.com/~jonathan.west3/images/weights.jpg

Carm3D
11-03-2003, 07:17 AM
Thanks Johnathan..

Fortunately, I figured out what was vexing me.. it was because my object had only one surface name. :/

So, how does the softbody dynamics differ from 3.3 to 4? I read somewhere that they were broken in 3.3.

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