subDs vs ConnectPolyShape?

[svenip]

this is just a basic question about what is better ? polys or subd's.

i really gues that subds are much better then polys. first off you can do anything with the subd porxy what you can do with polys too. so you can shape the cage in any kind. subds have the great advantage that they are build in a nurbs like way. means even with a few points you will get a round shape. and it got all the benefits from the poly's too (the disadvantages too :D , but that's a matter of the involved math).

so if you can get subds, go and never let them go away. but don't forget nurbs too. some kind of shapes are much better to do with nurbs, even if this involves patch modelling or something else.

the connectPolyShape thing is a very handy and nice script, but at the end you will get a very high res poly.

[Raji]

well my question was more about what is the difference between subDs and ConnectPolyShape... I can understand that CPS was very nice back in Maya 3 when not everybody could afford unlimited just so they could get subDs... but now with Maya 4, subDs are available with Complete too. So what's the difference between Maya's SubDs and CPS and which one should I go for?

[svenip]

so you have both now right ??? cps is in generall just a workaround for all the people didn't have the subd's. it just copies the way of working from subd's. so it's always better to choose the subd's. cps is just poly copying the subd way. now you have subd's and can work with them. throw away cps now.

is that what you would know ?

[Raji]

yup that's exactly what I wanted to know! Thanks!!

:)

[matty429]

Complete doesn't have SubDivision Surfaces.....

[Array]

ummm....the differance between subD and cps is that what CPS generates is still a polygon mesh. Maya subD creates a procedural surface much like nurbs, meaning that no matter how far you zoon in on a subd surface, itll still be smooth.

[Raji]

ahhhh ok that helps a ton! I didn't know that about subDs. Thanks a lot Array.:bounce:

Raji

[Array]

np, glad i can help :) another thing you have to keep in mind though, is if your renderer supports subd. Sometimes a renderer will just convert your subd surface to polygon at runtime, so you lose all of the benefits. I know for a fact though, that every renderman compliant renderer (PRman, entropy, bmrt, air, renderDotC etc etc etc) supports subD (if it doesnt, then its not compliant).

[Raji]

ok thanks for letting me know.

I still always use Maya's renderer because I don't want to bother learning new software and complicate things for myself. I know Maya's native renderer is hard to work with, but it usually does what I want it to.

if you know of a renderer I can just jump into and start using, please let me know! I just don't want to spend ages learning yet another program. Maya is complicated enough to learn as it is.. hehe.

:scream: :)

Raji

[svenip]

actually every renderer who can work with subds converts them to poly's. even nurbs are converted to poly's in rendertime. this is called tesselation. you can read that in the output window if you render directly in maya. there is always the point of tesselate the surfaces into poly's to render them.

all the renderer can't work with subds. they are all converting them to poly's

[-wT-]

But the good thing with Renderman renderers is that they use the same subpixel tesselation with subvisions and NURBS, as are used when generating those supercool displacements.

(I think...)

[fishbone]

one thing missed here comparing CPS to mayas subdivision is the fact that the subds are hierarcial.

I know that not many are using this feature for a lot of reasons (like only being supported by mayas native renderer, rigging issues and so on), but it's still worth mentioning and quite a nice thing i think.

[efishta]

I'm very surprised that no one caught the mistake that the thread starter did.

Maya complete 3 and 4 do not come with subdivision surfaces. You have to upgrade to unlimited to be able to use Subdivision in those versions...

May 4.5 will also come with subdivision in unlimied, along with all the fluid simulations etc... but who knows, maybe maya 5 or so will come with Subdivision in Complete.

[matty429]

I caught it...look up halfway

[Raji]

yeah I know, I started that idea and I'm sorry. For some reason, I was under the impression that complete in 4.0 came with subD surfaces.

My fault! :scream:

:D

Raji

[JamesDeschenes]

I believe that Maya 4.5 complete have SubD's in it.. not sure but I believe that was one of the 'new features' :D



*edit... hermm wow I just realised that this thread is a bazillion years old :) Sorry for bringing up old hat.

[BluEgo]

I like very much SubDs, but I'm just a newbie with this powerful tool... my greatest question is how to texture SubDs in the absence of multiple UV maps, what's the right method?

Thanx and excuse my poor english!!!

[beaker]

>>Maya complete 3 and 4 do not come with subdivision surfaces. You have to upgrade to unlimited to be able to use Subdivision in those versions...

True for 3 and 4, but not 4.5. Subdivs come with maya complete 4.5.

>>my greatest question is how to texture SubDs in the absence of multiple UV maps, what's the right method?

Multiple UV's are made for realtime games. You can texture everything just fine without them.

[Raji]

yes yes, all this has changed, i was just confused about back in 4.0

thanks all

[womanonfire]

you know how in CPS you can mirror half of your model and keep working on just the half and the other side updates to match.... Can you set up to do this with Maya's Sub-D ??

[dmcgrath]

Yes you can dupe half the model, with instancing "on" in the options.

[vapulus]

I've used CPS and Maya's SubD's both fairly extensively, and I have to say that Maya's SubD's just don't fit into my workflow. I started a thread a while ago about the SubD's speed. They're terrible. Set up a blendshape with your SubD model...then cry when you try to move the slider. It's just not worth it. Even when you delete the blind nodes, you're still not going to get the speed of CPS. The bonus of CPS is you can turn off the proxy have the base mesh by itself, meaning VERY low poly workflow. Then when you're testing things or ready to render, just turn on the proxy and choose a level of detail that fits the distance from the camera. I'm not saying Maya's SubD's don't have their uses...but coming from Lightwave, CPS is more my style.
Luckily, I found a way around both by giving up on maya's renderer. =) MTOR ahoy!

[kfc]

vapulus :


I've used CPS and Maya's SubD's both fairly extensively, and I have to say that Maya's SubD's just don't fit into my workflow. I started a thread a while ago about the SubD's speed. They're terrible. Set up a blendshape with your SubD model...then cry when you try to move the slider. It's just not worth it. Even when you delete the blind nodes, you're still not going to get the speed of CPS. The bonus of CPS is you can turn off the proxy have the base mesh by itself, meaning VERY low poly workflow. Then when you're testing things or ready to render, just turn on the proxy and choose a level of detail that fits the distance from the camera. I'm not saying Maya's SubD's don't have their uses...but coming from Lightwave, CPS is more my style.

yeah, I'm totally agrees on this.
Maya + MTOR is the best combination to get perfectly smooth subD. as svenip has mentioned up there, every renderer convert nurbs or even subD to poly while rendering. but PRman can turn your poly straight in to subD in the final renderings. that's the main thing which i love renderman so much.
however, subd in maya when it renders with the native renderer. it still got jagged edge when u goes close enuff. the way to solve it is by increasing the tesselations. but the rendering times increases relatively.

[womanonfire]

what is MTOR?

[olivier georges]

MtoR : maya to renderman translator in the rat software from pixar.

euh, perhaps some one can explain me what are these blind node when working with subdiv ?


Olivier.

[vapulus]

Originally posted by olivier georges
MtoR : maya to renderman translator in the rat software from pixar.

euh, perhaps some one can explain me what are these blind node when working with subdiv ?


Olivier.

I'm assuming you're asking what to do about them. Basically, you'll want to delete them. Create a SubD object, then select your object and go into hypershade and show upstream and downstream connections. You'll notice a load of blind data nodes. All these do is slow down your SubD. Delete the little monsters. I cant remember if they're on the wireframe "poly proxy mode" mesh, or if they're on the SubD's geometry. Check both.

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