How do you use Layers in Max 5?

[EricChadwick]

RTM?

[gardocki]

Please explain what you mean by layers. Whatever the function is, it's named differently in MAX. Are you referring to render elements?

[EricChadwick]

RTM, it's in there. Very clear, similar to layers in Autocad.

[sqitso]

Can someone explain RTM? When I say layers in reference to Lightwave and Maya I mean this: The layers work similar to Photoshop. You can have one object, several layers deep. Each layer can have attributes. So you can hide objects of a certain layer, or make them a background refference and such. I guess if you are a die hard Max user you may not have a clue what I am talking about.

[EricChadwick]

Read The Manual. Layers is in there, same feature that you describe.

More info about RTM, usually RTFM but I prefer to be polite...
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm

[sqitso]

I did read the manual, On page 44-46 of the New Features guide. I know this is what I am looking for, but it is so different than layers in other programs, that the meesly 3 pages isn't enough material.

I guess I was looking for an explination on how to use it, not just where the tools where. Since I don't know how to organize my work without the use of layers, Max is really throwing my workflow for a loop.

Thanks

[EricChadwick]

The actual User Reference (F1 key) has much more info, specifically how Layers work and how to use them. I'm looking in max 5 though, I don't have v6.

Here are some freebie scripts that extend the basic UI.
http://www.scriptspot.com/Main_Scripts.asp?BrowseType=Search&Sort=Name&ST=1&SearchField=layers

[Multimediaman]

hmmmm every time I'm seeing layers and stuff, it only mentions various things like putting text over your render... on video games such as Gran Turismo 3, they've got what appears to be a sky dome built out as a sphere linked to camera position, so no matter where the camera is the background is the same distance. However, they have the background so that it renders behind all the objects no matter what... I tested that by taking a vehicle and breaking out of the track and I drove until the Seattle track was just one or two pixels on screen, yet it was still in front of the background. Also, some buildings have, I guess you could say "foreground dominance" ... as in, while I was out of the track, I was exploring, and some of the buildings could be seen right through the other buildings, even though it was obvious that the building you could see it through was in front.

is there any quick way of doing this, or would I have to make a Targa/Png sequence of my skydome, since the camera is going to be turning around quite a bit in my scenes, with my foreground geometry hidden, then after the sequence is rendered out, unhide the geometry, select the skydome and hide it, then use render post to composite the sky dome sequence behind the foreground render? I mean... that seems to me like it'd do the trick... but I guess all I'm asking is if there's a simpler way to do that :surprised

[EricChadwick]

"Layers" in max refers to a method for organizing objects, not rendering order.

For your sky, you can use a cubic environment map, the same thing games use. Look up the Reflect/Refract map in the Help file.

[celticdog]

Posm, quit being a smart ass. sqitso is asking for workflow advice and tips. "RTM" is a weak response. I can tell you of at least a dozen sections in the 3ds max manual that tell you what a function does but doesn't help you in actually incorporating it into your project workflow. I would also like to know how some of you guys use layers. I DID RTM and I still wonder how to use it effectively. Can someone besides Posm answer this?

[sqitso]

I figured out a little bit. You can show layers in the toolbar by right clicking and checking layers. After that you can access the layer panal, but it really isn't that good. In Lightwave and Maya layers are a very important part of workflow. You can tell that the tools were designed with layers in mind. It seems like Layers in max was an afterthought. It's not very robust or intuitive. Yes you can organize objects with it, but it is so hard to understand you waste more time then just hiding an object. I may have to quit max all together. This really is a let down.

[celticdog]

Well, I believe the layers are new to r5 so I guess it is an afterthought. I hope you're wrong but I think your assessment of the tool's uselessness is right. Thats why I too was interested to hear if anyone is actually using it effectively.

[allenlikewo]

max 6 layers are much better than max 5.

I wouldn't put max's layers down too much because the are very close to the AutoCAD layers that have been around for sometime now. I also believe that VIZ has been using layers a little longer than max. I would try looking around for documentation or tutorials about using AutoCAD layers.

[swampthing]

after using lightwaves layers i found max 5's layers to be completely and utterly useless.

Dunno, i think your probably wasting your time trying to use max 5's layer system, I didn't find it very good.

[Marsel Khadiyev]

"I also believe that VIZ has been using layers a little longer than max"

In fact Max layers are ported from VIZ. I see nothing limited about Max 5/6 layers other than the UI.

Check out SceneManager for a friendlier interface.

[magicm]

Also, be sure to check out theOnion (http://www.blur.com/Tech/maxScriptDoc?keyMaxScript=3) from blur.. theOnion also uses max's native layer system, but packed in a much more intuitive UI

- Martijn

[salmonmoose]

After stumbleing across the layers feature of max5 I thought I had been saved. Unfortuantely I have a suspicion that the layers in max5 are in fact a little broken, turning layers on and off doesn't seem to effect anything, it's all a bit of a shame really. They really do seem like a tacked on afterthought, I don't think you can even get to the help page in the manual without actually searching for it.

[marcusss]

You definitely need to look up EPHERE scene manager, that is a script by Marcel Khadiyev (sp?) that is a real workflow boost.

There are some threads here talking about this script, You should look it, as it is a lot better than the original implementation of layer functionnality in MAX.

Marcusss

[Marsel Khadiyev]

"turning layers on and off doesn't seem to effect anything"

That is because in Max 5 object remain self-served (they don't inherit layer properties) even after they're assigned to one. You have to manually assign objects to layers. I beleive this is fixed in 6.

Layer system in 5 and 6 is virtually identical, the interface has simply changed a little.

[thorn3d]

The "problem" with max5's layer system is the layer palette itself. I don't know if it's meant to imitate another app or what, but it's rather clunky... it's like the designer looked at Rhino layers, and Illustrator layers, and then took the worst of both for 3dsmax layers.

But, that doesn't mean layers just plainly suck... what you need is a better palette. The Onion has already been mentioned. Harry Derchering also has a nice once:

http://www.harrydechering.com/

There's another one which I'm forgetting.... but in any case, all of them re-write the layer interface to make layers artist-friendly.

thorn

[sqitso]

These look interesting, the onion looks very helpful. Obviously the majority of people reading this thread are real Max users. Does anyone here utilize layers in thier workflow? If so can you explain a little please? If not could someone share scene management tips with me pretty please? I'm not putting Max down by any means, but from a new user's perspective, the scene managment of Max seems sloppy and unorganized. I would just like some basic tips on workflow on a semi advanced scene. It would belp a lot.

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.