criterion
10-30-2003, 04:18 AM
Christopher A. Smith has entered the ALIENWARE Challenge.
View Full Version : ALIENWARE Challenge Entry: Christopher A. Smith
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criterion
11-01-2003, 05:08 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1067663282_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1067663282_large.jpg)
Just a Photoshop sketch. I'm thinking of changing the perspective to give it more scale.
Just a Photoshop sketch. I'm thinking of changing the perspective to give it more scale.
Designer2
11-08-2003, 10:32 AM
you are having a very good stuff here, compositing, Dynamics, Lighting all are great within the sketch, just keep up i realy want to see more specially 3D ...
:drool:
:drool:
criterion
11-09-2003, 02:38 AM
Thanks for the encouragement. I've had to rethink my concept since the competition is so good. I woun't be posting anything new for at least a week, until I'm sure that i am being as creative as I can be. Thanks again.
Maytridy
11-09-2003, 03:02 AM
You have great photoshop skill. :applause:
I really like your concept.
I really like your concept.
criterion
12-06-2003, 11:24 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1070753060_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1070753060_large.jpg)
I abandoned my first concept, trying to be more original. I've been wrestling with these.
I abandoned my first concept, trying to be more original. I've been wrestling with these.
criterion
12-06-2003, 11:33 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1070753585_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1070753585_large.jpg)
Travelers to this world are constantly bombarded by corrosive chemicals in the air. Because shelter is of such great importance here the giant Metrox Beast has evolved to mimic an alien city dwelling. Most victims realize this when they are at the cities gates and standing on its tongue.
Travelers to this world are constantly bombarded by corrosive chemicals in the air. Because shelter is of such great importance here the giant Metrox Beast has evolved to mimic an alien city dwelling. Most victims realize this when they are at the cities gates and standing on its tongue.
Ian Jones
12-07-2003, 12:55 AM
Don't forget that the instructions for this challenge specifically denote the use of lifeforms.
"The location seems unpopulated, but not necessarily abandoned or neglected, nor rusting or decaying, but life forms are inexistent."
I just don't want to see you going down the wrong track with your fantastic concepts! You have some really nice ideas, but they are a little off track.
"The location seems unpopulated, but not necessarily abandoned or neglected, nor rusting or decaying, but life forms are inexistent."
I just don't want to see you going down the wrong track with your fantastic concepts! You have some really nice ideas, but they are a little off track.
nuclearman
12-07-2003, 01:22 AM
To quote from the Contest FAQs:
Frequently Asked Questions
Q. Do "life forms" include plants? / What exactly is supposed to be in the image? / I want to create an image with xyz lifeform, can I? / Are unborn eggs ok? / Can I create a Terminator-like mecha creature? What's OK and not? - Semantic questions
A. Artistic liberty is given to you to create and amaze us. Use your initiative, as we do not wish to give too many guidelines or restrictions
The notion of some kind of alien "angler fish" is rather intriguing, but the aspect of the contest specifications that most of the entries seem to be missing is this sense that "something was created here." Remember, this is a contest being sponsored by computer hardware manufacturers, with Alienware having the largest stake. I suspect they want a landscape which can be used as a background for their workstation ads -- hence the desire for the piece to give a sense that "something was created here" (eg, the new Alienware workstation). If you have difficulty imagining your landscape as a backdrop for selling the capabilities of a high-end workstation, I would imagine the chances are quite good that you're on the wrong track. But that's just _my_ take on contest. If you do a piece that's so incredibly imaginative and impressive in its execution ... well, that will probably count for something.
Bottom line: do what really inspires you, and do the best job possible since it can always go in your portfolio even if it doesn't blow away the contest judges. :-)
Frequently Asked Questions
Q. Do "life forms" include plants? / What exactly is supposed to be in the image? / I want to create an image with xyz lifeform, can I? / Are unborn eggs ok? / Can I create a Terminator-like mecha creature? What's OK and not? - Semantic questions
A. Artistic liberty is given to you to create and amaze us. Use your initiative, as we do not wish to give too many guidelines or restrictions
The notion of some kind of alien "angler fish" is rather intriguing, but the aspect of the contest specifications that most of the entries seem to be missing is this sense that "something was created here." Remember, this is a contest being sponsored by computer hardware manufacturers, with Alienware having the largest stake. I suspect they want a landscape which can be used as a background for their workstation ads -- hence the desire for the piece to give a sense that "something was created here" (eg, the new Alienware workstation). If you have difficulty imagining your landscape as a backdrop for selling the capabilities of a high-end workstation, I would imagine the chances are quite good that you're on the wrong track. But that's just _my_ take on contest. If you do a piece that's so incredibly imaginative and impressive in its execution ... well, that will probably count for something.
Bottom line: do what really inspires you, and do the best job possible since it can always go in your portfolio even if it doesn't blow away the contest judges. :-)
criterion
12-07-2003, 04:54 AM
Your absolutly right, it does say that but it also says "maybe even the land itself is alive". If the image is to be devoid of life then I will need some clairification on exactly what the rules allow. From what I have seen there are many entries with organic structures.
I understood the rules to mean that there would be no inhabitants i.e. little green men, walking around but not that there was no life at all.
I understood the rules to mean that there would be no inhabitants i.e. little green men, walking around but not that there was no life at all.
Ian Jones
12-07-2003, 05:32 AM
I'm sure that your 2nd and third concepts have lifeforms. The latest one, I guess could be considered living land. Organic structures are fine, all I'm saying is that your treading a fine line... I'd hate to see you get it all done and then be caught up in the rules. Ask one of the mods.
criterion
12-08-2003, 12:48 AM
You both make intersting points. In an attempt to be original I have completely overlooked the marketing aspect of this project. I'll rethink my concept with more of that in mind. Thanks for your help.
criterion
12-08-2003, 02:13 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1070849629_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1070849629_large.jpg)
Well, I went back to my original idea. Not the most clever of things but hopefully it touches on all of the elements that are required for this contest.
Well, I went back to my original idea. Not the most clever of things but hopefully it touches on all of the elements that are required for this contest.
tr1cky
12-12-2003, 11:11 AM
This has great potential. Post some modeling progress!
OZ
12-12-2003, 01:04 PM
U FIRST IDEA WAS GREAT!develope that!:buttrock:
TheFirstAngel
12-21-2003, 01:48 AM
reminds me a bit "Atlantis", the animated movie, found the first, the one before your last one and the underwater concept(even if its colliddates with rules), they all have great lightning and have much more potential, the latest looks a bit "lost" and because of the light sky, the Lighteffect does not come to effect. Anyways, good luck and be inspired... :buttrock:
criterion
01-03-2004, 07:12 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073157127_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073157127_large.jpg)
At this point I have started the modeling of what will be the massive statues for my scene.
At this point I have started the modeling of what will be the massive statues for my scene.
criterion
01-03-2004, 07:19 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073157597_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073157597_large.jpg)
Here is a smoothed version of the head.
Here is a smoothed version of the head.
criterion
01-03-2004, 07:22 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073157745_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073157745_large.jpg)
This is the layout I have chosen. It's a little different rom the concept scetch but I felt that this arrangement was a little more interesting.
This is the layout I have chosen. It's a little different rom the concept scetch but I felt that this arrangement was a little more interesting.
criterion
01-03-2004, 07:25 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073157947_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073157947_large.jpg)
I decided to add a planet in the background. I used a displacement map to give the planet its raised surfaces and I just copied the diffuse map and used it for self illumination. There are reflections set to falloff.
I decided to add a planet in the background. I used a displacement map to give the planet its raised surfaces and I just copied the diffuse map and used it for self illumination. There are reflections set to falloff.
criterion
01-03-2004, 07:27 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073158052_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073158052_large.jpg)
A lighting test.
A lighting test.
criterion
01-03-2004, 07:32 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073158362_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073158362_large.jpg)
I think this lighting will do. 2 omni lights 2 spots. I use combinations of blue and orange.
I think this lighting will do. 2 omni lights 2 spots. I use combinations of blue and orange.
criterion
01-03-2004, 07:34 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073158485_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073158485_large.jpg)
At this point I'm not trying to make it look perfect. I do most of the cleanup in Photoshop.
At this point I'm not trying to make it look perfect. I do most of the cleanup in Photoshop.
criterion
01-03-2004, 07:51 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073159500_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073159500_large.jpg)
In this example I've added some cloud effects using After Burn. I rendered the clouds seperatly and then composited them in Photoshop. I'll explain further in my next post.
In this example I've added some cloud effects using After Burn. I rendered the clouds seperatly and then composited them in Photoshop. I'll explain further in my next post.
criterion
01-03-2004, 07:57 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073159824_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073159824_large.jpg)
After rendering the basic scene, I created a new material with its self illumination set to 100% black. I then rendered this new scene using the After Burn plugin. In Photoshop I copied the cloud layer and pasted it into the basic scene. The cloud layer was then converted to SCREEN mode, making everything black transparent. The result you saw in my previous post.
After rendering the basic scene, I created a new material with its self illumination set to 100% black. I then rendered this new scene using the After Burn plugin. In Photoshop I copied the cloud layer and pasted it into the basic scene. The cloud layer was then converted to SCREEN mode, making everything black transparent. The result you saw in my previous post.
criterion
01-03-2004, 07:59 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073159974_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073159974_large.jpg)
I rendered the clouds without the terrian. You'll see why in my next post.
I rendered the clouds without the terrian. You'll see why in my next post.
criterion
01-03-2004, 08:01 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160112_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160112_large.jpg)
In Photoshop I flipped the new cloud image and turned its layer to SCREEN. This will give the illusion of atmosphere, and it was a quick and easy way to do it.
In Photoshop I flipped the new cloud image and turned its layer to SCREEN. This will give the illusion of atmosphere, and it was a quick and easy way to do it.
criterion
01-03-2004, 08:05 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160333_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160333_large.jpg)
I have added some video post effects to the background planet. The planet itself has a vpost glow set to perimeter so that it only effects the edges. There is a light in the scene with a vpost flare added.
I have added some video post effects to the background planet. The planet itself has a vpost glow set to perimeter so that it only effects the edges. There is a light in the scene with a vpost flare added.
criterion
01-03-2004, 08:08 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160501_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160501_large.jpg)
Here is what the planet looks like in the scene. No special techinque here, I just have it on a layer undernieth the basic render.
Here is what the planet looks like in the scene. No special techinque here, I just have it on a layer undernieth the basic render.
criterion
01-03-2004, 08:10 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160611_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160611_large.jpg)
This "viewer" was painted in Photoshop.
This "viewer" was painted in Photoshop.
criterion
01-03-2004, 08:12 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160752_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160752_large.jpg)
I rendered the self illumination pass seperately, I did the same with the shadows and specular. This allows me to tweak them in Photoshop.
I rendered the self illumination pass seperately, I did the same with the shadows and specular. This allows me to tweak them in Photoshop.
criterion
01-03-2004, 08:15 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160951_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073160951_large.jpg)
In After Effects I applied a filter called SHINE (by Trapcode, trapcode.com)to the self illumination render. This helps to give the sence of motion and energy that I am looking for.
In After Effects I applied a filter called SHINE (by Trapcode, trapcode.com)to the self illumination render. This helps to give the sence of motion and energy that I am looking for.
criterion
01-03-2004, 09:05 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073163900_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1073163900_large.jpg)
Back Story:
For an age the empire of Galenthra stood in the shadows of our galaxy gathering knowledge and experimenting on other worlds. As was the custom, the Galenthrians would not leave a world they visit without marking it for either life or destruction. Blessed with technology far beyond their rivals, the Galenthians sought to advance themselves until the day they took their place as overlords of our universe. To that end they constructed the ultimate weapon, one that embodied the values and thinking of this advanced race. They kept this weapon on the third moon, Krannu, locked behind three seals. The seals, in the form of giant monoliths, were not sufficient to hold back the fury of this ultimate weapon. Once free the weapon decided that the Galenthian race was too primitive to survive. Nothing remains of Galenthra now except the third moon and the mark of destruction etched on its surface.
Back Story:
For an age the empire of Galenthra stood in the shadows of our galaxy gathering knowledge and experimenting on other worlds. As was the custom, the Galenthrians would not leave a world they visit without marking it for either life or destruction. Blessed with technology far beyond their rivals, the Galenthians sought to advance themselves until the day they took their place as overlords of our universe. To that end they constructed the ultimate weapon, one that embodied the values and thinking of this advanced race. They kept this weapon on the third moon, Krannu, locked behind three seals. The seals, in the form of giant monoliths, were not sufficient to hold back the fury of this ultimate weapon. Once free the weapon decided that the Galenthian race was too primitive to survive. Nothing remains of Galenthra now except the third moon and the mark of destruction etched on its surface.
TheFirstAngel
01-07-2004, 02:37 AM
Very cool work! I love your posteffects big time, they look absolutely awesome.
The Story is quiet funny, I can hear strings and brass and harp melodies while an old man tells the spacetravellers about this ancient tragedy! goosebumppotential plot.... :scream:
The scene provides a brilliant look, Great job criterion!:applause:
The Story is quiet funny, I can hear strings and brass and harp melodies while an old man tells the spacetravellers about this ancient tragedy! goosebumppotential plot.... :scream:
The scene provides a brilliant look, Great job criterion!:applause:
criterion
01-07-2004, 02:50 AM
Hey thaks alot angel. You know, your like a celebrity. Every post I look at I see you. Thanks again for all of your input.
TheFirstAngel
01-07-2004, 03:02 AM
:blush: uhm...not really, but thanks. Hehe. And the lil' suggestions: Most Welcome, was nothing compared with the result your hard work brought up, it's a masterpiece! Hope i get done with my piece in time. :bounce:
eska
01-07-2004, 10:11 AM
I don't if you wanted such a effect on a observer,
but I will risk it!
What I love about your work is the dynamic.
It has also something of an insect- planet, something strange and a little bit ...... agressive.
And this is what I REALY LOVE ON IT.
Keep fighting:bounce: :wavey:
but I will risk it!
What I love about your work is the dynamic.
It has also something of an insect- planet, something strange and a little bit ...... agressive.
And this is what I REALY LOVE ON IT.
Keep fighting:bounce: :wavey:
BClaw
01-10-2004, 02:15 AM
Really cool scene! :bounce: And very clever how you split everything up, so you can tweak it before recombing it. :applause: I'll have to try that! Good luck! :bowdown:
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:31 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074119490_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074119490_large.jpg)
Ok,I woke up one morning and I just wasn't digging my earlier design so... I made a few revisions. Most of it is the same as before. I hope this one looks better.
Ok,I woke up one morning and I just wasn't digging my earlier design so... I made a few revisions. Most of it is the same as before. I hope this one looks better.
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:33 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074119618_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074119618_large.jpg)
I created a tube like shape and duplicated it several times in a row.
I created a tube like shape and duplicated it several times in a row.
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:34 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074119672_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074119672_large.jpg)
I then added a BEND modifier to the group.
I then added a BEND modifier to the group.
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:36 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074119796_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074119796_large.jpg)
Here is what the wireframe looks like once it was combined with the other elements.
Here is what the wireframe looks like once it was combined with the other elements.
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:40 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120030_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120030_large.jpg)
Here are some of the textures that I used.
Here are some of the textures that I used.
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:45 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120311_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120311_large.jpg)
I have 5 lights in the scene. I like to use omni lights, mainly because I tend to change the model's position alot. This way I don't have to worry about a spotlight's fall-off being where I don't want it.
I have 5 lights in the scene. I like to use omni lights, mainly because I tend to change the model's position alot. This way I don't have to worry about a spotlight's fall-off being where I don't want it.
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:49 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120543_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120543_large.jpg)
I'm happy with this look. I don't like to add too much detail, since much of it will be lost when I shrink the image.
I'm happy with this look. I don't like to add too much detail, since much of it will be lost when I shrink the image.
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:52 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120730_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120730_large.jpg)
I felt that the first planet that I made looked more like a firery rock. I think this looks better. The city lights are added in photoshop using layers set to dissolve.
I felt that the first planet that I made looked more like a firery rock. I think this looks better. The city lights are added in photoshop using layers set to dissolve.
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:54 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120877_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120877_large.jpg)
I think this layout works. Let me know what you think. The clouds are the same from the previos design.
I think this layout works. Let me know what you think. The clouds are the same from the previos design.
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:56 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120983_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074120983_large.jpg)
I duplicated the blue clouds and flipped them. I then chaned the color with the hue/saturation tool in Photoshop.
I duplicated the blue clouds and flipped them. I then chaned the color with the hue/saturation tool in Photoshop.
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:57 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074121055_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074121055_large.jpg)
Same little viewer as befor.
Same little viewer as befor.
criterion
01-14-2004, 10:58 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074121121_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074121121_large.jpg)
I think this is the one. Who knows I might change it tomorrow.
I think this is the one. Who knows I might change it tomorrow.
eska
01-14-2004, 11:09 PM
VERY VERY BEAUTIFUL:bowdown:
criterion
01-15-2004, 12:58 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074128310_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/3/1047/1047_1074128310_large.jpg)
I added some glows in Photoshop.
I added some glows in Photoshop.
TheFirstAngel
01-15-2004, 04:34 AM
hmmmm, I really like your sockets you made, they are supercool. but, please get me right, I prefer the previous composition (NOTHING against the models, they are big time cool!!!)
Its just that they partly sank into the ground and tjhis feeling of that abendoned superrace came stronger along with your last version.... it was more dark and misterious. I'd go for that one.
But of course, this is just my taste, and you might have your own ideas... never the less, The new version looks great too, BEST luck and keep on rockin' your work is Big time cool!!!!:buttrock: :beer: :buttrock:
Its just that they partly sank into the ground and tjhis feeling of that abendoned superrace came stronger along with your last version.... it was more dark and misterious. I'd go for that one.
But of course, this is just my taste, and you might have your own ideas... never the less, The new version looks great too, BEST luck and keep on rockin' your work is Big time cool!!!!:buttrock: :beer: :buttrock:
criterion
01-15-2004, 04:45 AM
Yeh... I know what you mean. I just started to think that maybe it was a little too morbid. I think this new one is a bit more positive.
Aries326
01-15-2004, 04:57 AM
Beautiful stuff..... very misterious, keep it up:thumbsup:
TheFirstAngel
01-15-2004, 05:21 AM
It's not a problem to show up with something brilliant morbid, as your lightning there is absolutly fantastic, it is glamorous morbid, and that's COOL. I mean that. Also, I loved the old version of the planet (with just one powerfull mark), composition, lightning, EVERYTHING. It looks like a PERFECT Image to me with a huge emotional power, you really can FEEL the gone glamorous age, the arrogance and the payback. Its so dramatic. The new one is like telling a Horrorstory and before it comes to the final scene, washin it out and say sorry and zap to Disneycannel... like Selfcensorship.... It is maybe dark, but its most beatifull -
the new great one is too, but does not have that huge power of the old. I REALLY LOVE the Image previous version because
it's so sad, dark, big, dramatic, and emotionally beatifull, and you loose so much of the tragedy feeling in try to "happy it up" :rolleyes:
Best luck and keep on rockin'
:wavey:
the new great one is too, but does not have that huge power of the old. I REALLY LOVE the Image previous version because
it's so sad, dark, big, dramatic, and emotionally beatifull, and you loose so much of the tragedy feeling in try to "happy it up" :rolleyes:
Best luck and keep on rockin'
:wavey:
TheFirstAngel
01-16-2004, 01:35 AM
:bounce: Update update! :bounce:
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