eple
10-29-2003, 09:04 PM
a little insecure aren't we Bill?:rolleyes:
http://macnn.com/news/21786
http://macnn.com/news/21786
View Full Version : Microsoft fires employee over G5 photos, blog
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RobertoOrtiz
10-29-2003, 09:13 PM
I know it is cool to bash Microsoft, but on this one they are on the side of the angels.
Facts that I have gathered:
1) The employee was a temp.
2) The employee took photos inside the campus and posted them online. A big no-no especially if you have signed an NDA.
3) Again with the NDA. Posting information about the company on the Internet is a violation of the NDA. And even without the NDA the employee showed he is not trust worthy.(The NDA usually includes photos of the campus)
This is a professional Forum and the type of conduct this fellow showed is very unprofessional. By posting sensitive data on the web he has shown that he should be close to ANY company data.
-R
Facts that I have gathered:
1) The employee was a temp.
2) The employee took photos inside the campus and posted them online. A big no-no especially if you have signed an NDA.
3) Again with the NDA. Posting information about the company on the Internet is a violation of the NDA. And even without the NDA the employee showed he is not trust worthy.(The NDA usually includes photos of the campus)
This is a professional Forum and the type of conduct this fellow showed is very unprofessional. By posting sensitive data on the web he has shown that he should be close to ANY company data.
-R
Hookflash
10-29-2003, 09:28 PM
Roberto: Well said. I think it's a shame that our human herd instincts have to kick in every time someone mentions Microsoft. Most MS-bashers don't even know why they're bashing MS... They're just going with the flow.
BoydLake
10-29-2003, 09:36 PM
Very well put. Thins kind of thing is a big no-no at any tech company. It's a very competetive world and posting behind the scenes un-authotrized info can cost a company a ton of money if
the wrong things are made public even if by accident.
the wrong things are made public even if by accident.
eple
10-29-2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Hookflash
Roberto: Well said. I think it's a shame that our human herd instincts have to kick in every time someone mentions Microsoft. Most MS-bashers don't even know why they're bashing MS... They're just going with the flow.
Human herd????? speak for yourself!
I for my part don't think it's "cool" to bash on Microsoft. I think is only ethical to do so. But, we all know Roberto doesn't like to mix politics with CG, so let's just talk about spectacle shall we?:applause:
Roberto: Well said. I think it's a shame that our human herd instincts have to kick in every time someone mentions Microsoft. Most MS-bashers don't even know why they're bashing MS... They're just going with the flow.
Human herd????? speak for yourself!
I for my part don't think it's "cool" to bash on Microsoft. I think is only ethical to do so. But, we all know Roberto doesn't like to mix politics with CG, so let's just talk about spectacle shall we?:applause:
Nicodemus
10-29-2003, 09:52 PM
While I agree with the thrust of what Roberto said I have to say it also comes across as something of an over reaction on MS's part. If what the person that took the pictures said is to believed...and based on the photo itself it could easily have been anywhere. There are no buildings shown, no picture of the campus. It is a picture of the back of a truck with some G5's in it. It could have just as easily been the loading dock in the building I work in in Mclean, VA as opposed to Redmon, WA...for that matter it could be the loading dock of an Apple store.
I am not trying to bash MS. But this kind of reaction seems a bit over the top. A simple reprimand from on high could have easily gotten the point across without it coming across kinda of 'big brother is watching".
MS receiving G5's is really not that big a deal but this kind of reaciton tends to lend itself to rumors and speculation. MS own's major Apple stock so them buying a couple G5's is no biggie. This just makes it feel like they are afraid of people knowing something or that some kind of secret may have been let out. I completely understand and appreciate the need for security and working with sensitive materials/information (hell I have to deal with it on a daily basis) but this smacks of making a moutain out of something that could have been a mole hile at most.
~L~
I am not trying to bash MS. But this kind of reaction seems a bit over the top. A simple reprimand from on high could have easily gotten the point across without it coming across kinda of 'big brother is watching".
MS receiving G5's is really not that big a deal but this kind of reaciton tends to lend itself to rumors and speculation. MS own's major Apple stock so them buying a couple G5's is no biggie. This just makes it feel like they are afraid of people knowing something or that some kind of secret may have been let out. I completely understand and appreciate the need for security and working with sensitive materials/information (hell I have to deal with it on a daily basis) but this smacks of making a moutain out of something that could have been a mole hile at most.
~L~
Hookflash
10-29-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by eple
Human herd????? speak for yourself!
I for my part don't think it's "cool" to bash on Microsoft. I think is only ethical to do so. But, we all know Roberto doesn't like to mix politics with CG, so let's just talk about spectacle shall we?:applause:
I was speaking for myself, as I definately have a tendency to "go with the flow" unless I make a conscious effort not to. I think it's just human nature. However, if you have a logical basis for your anti-MS stance, then more power to you:beer:
Human herd????? speak for yourself!
I for my part don't think it's "cool" to bash on Microsoft. I think is only ethical to do so. But, we all know Roberto doesn't like to mix politics with CG, so let's just talk about spectacle shall we?:applause:
I was speaking for myself, as I definately have a tendency to "go with the flow" unless I make a conscious effort not to. I think it's just human nature. However, if you have a logical basis for your anti-MS stance, then more power to you:beer:
bentllama
10-29-2003, 11:41 PM
It is no secret that MS uses MACS in software development. Our audio department uses them almost exclusively...
...the issue at hand is that it was an NDA that got broken, which is grounds for appropriate action.
...the issue at hand is that it was an NDA that got broken, which is grounds for appropriate action.
parallax
10-30-2003, 09:47 AM
Sometimes, those NDA's in the states are really sad.
flipnap
10-30-2003, 02:10 PM
I think this is friggin hilarious:) did you guys read all the blogs? too funny..
barackmag
10-30-2003, 04:24 PM
well, if someone thinks being "professional" is equal to an agreement that living in a world where you could be fired becouse of a photo of a backdoor load is NORMAL and CORRECT and APPLAUSIBLE, it absolutely convinces me that professional isn't the next level beyond amateur, but something like stupid squarehead defending profit he lives of....
Slave mentality ...:thumbsdow
Yeah it's an ethic question bashing Microsoft...
Long live the opensource!!! hehehe
...now listen to those morons ("professionals") crying how stupid this post is:drool:
Slave mentality ...:thumbsdow
Yeah it's an ethic question bashing Microsoft...
Long live the opensource!!! hehehe
...now listen to those morons ("professionals") crying how stupid this post is:drool:
daybe
10-30-2003, 04:41 PM
You must also remember Microsoft has invested quite a lot of money into Apple computers, including software develpoment.
How can they develop software for a Mac if they don't own any?
Dave
How can they develop software for a Mac if they don't own any?
Dave
Spankspeople
10-30-2003, 04:43 PM
I'm fairly certain that MS didn't do it because they were afraid people would find out that they use Mac's... I mean they can't very well develop their Mac software(Office, IE...) using PC's can they?
If a contract says that you're not allowed to take pictures of things, despite how unidentifiable as Microsoft they can be, the contract still says that you're not allowed to take pictures of it, and NOT doing anything about it sets a dangerous precedent.
Edit:
Looks like I was ninja-posted by Daybe... =P
If a contract says that you're not allowed to take pictures of things, despite how unidentifiable as Microsoft they can be, the contract still says that you're not allowed to take pictures of it, and NOT doing anything about it sets a dangerous precedent.
Edit:
Looks like I was ninja-posted by Daybe... =P
nobrain
10-30-2003, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by RobertoOrtiz
I know it is cool to bash Microsoft, but on this one they are on the side of the angels.
Facts that I have gathered:
1) The employee was a temp.
2) The employee took photos inside the campus and posted them online. A big no-no especially if you have signed an NDA.
3) Again with the NDA. Posting information about the company on the Internet is a violation of the NDA. And even without the NDA the employee showed he is not trust worthy.(The NDA usually includes photos of the campus)
This is a professional Forum and the type of conduct this fellow showed is very unprofessional. By posting sensitive data on the web he has shown that he should be close to ANY company data.
-R
blah...blah....blah.... I mean really roberto he could have just gotten a warning or something, to hell with microsoft and their nda's, they're monopolizing the pc industry they don't deserve all that privacy in fact they should be under constant scrutiny for every little thing they do. Anyways those forums are moderated, all they did is make microsoft look like a bigger ass that it already is (if thats possible) by firing the poor dude.
I know it is cool to bash Microsoft, but on this one they are on the side of the angels.
Facts that I have gathered:
1) The employee was a temp.
2) The employee took photos inside the campus and posted them online. A big no-no especially if you have signed an NDA.
3) Again with the NDA. Posting information about the company on the Internet is a violation of the NDA. And even without the NDA the employee showed he is not trust worthy.(The NDA usually includes photos of the campus)
This is a professional Forum and the type of conduct this fellow showed is very unprofessional. By posting sensitive data on the web he has shown that he should be close to ANY company data.
-R
blah...blah....blah.... I mean really roberto he could have just gotten a warning or something, to hell with microsoft and their nda's, they're monopolizing the pc industry they don't deserve all that privacy in fact they should be under constant scrutiny for every little thing they do. Anyways those forums are moderated, all they did is make microsoft look like a bigger ass that it already is (if thats possible) by firing the poor dude.
Spankspeople
10-30-2003, 09:23 PM
When you sign a contract that says "For the love of Hod, we'll fire you if you take pictures!", I don't care if the devil himself wrote the contract, if you take pictures YOU WILL BE FIRED.
You don't agree with something and then say "Yeah, well I don't like them anyways, so I can get away with it."!
You don't agree with something and then say "Yeah, well I don't like them anyways, so I can get away with it."!
parallax
10-30-2003, 10:45 PM
But a NDA like thats should be open to reason and debate.
If the guy brought in millions of dollars a year, they would be singing a different tone.
Then, all of a sudden you'd get a warning, or it would not matter at all.
If the guy brought in millions of dollars a year, they would be singing a different tone.
Then, all of a sudden you'd get a warning, or it would not matter at all.
AR Atlas
10-30-2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by nobrain
blah...blah....blah.... I mean really roberto he could have just gotten a warning or something,
Think of it in terms of how a Microsoft security person would see it:
The dude was walking around Microsoft campus with a digital camera, armed and ready. Do you think he saw the loading truck, ran back to the parking lot, got his digital camera, and then ran back in time to snap the pic before the computers were moved? No. He already had the camera with him taking pictures of god-knows-what. I think that is what gave MS security the creeps--not the content of this particular pic, but the thought of what this random temp was doing walking around campus with a camera in the first place.
Atlas
blah...blah....blah.... I mean really roberto he could have just gotten a warning or something,
Think of it in terms of how a Microsoft security person would see it:
The dude was walking around Microsoft campus with a digital camera, armed and ready. Do you think he saw the loading truck, ran back to the parking lot, got his digital camera, and then ran back in time to snap the pic before the computers were moved? No. He already had the camera with him taking pictures of god-knows-what. I think that is what gave MS security the creeps--not the content of this particular pic, but the thought of what this random temp was doing walking around campus with a camera in the first place.
Atlas
slime
10-30-2003, 11:45 PM
You go to work in a place.
You sign a contract and a NDA.
The papers say you cannot publish photos of the company.
You publish photos of the company.
You are fired.
It seems logical to me. This is the real world, nor the kindergarden.
You sign a contract and a NDA.
The papers say you cannot publish photos of the company.
You publish photos of the company.
You are fired.
It seems logical to me. This is the real world, nor the kindergarden.
onlooker
10-31-2003, 12:05 AM
I dislike MS as much as the next guy, but they did what should have been done. :p
flipnap
10-31-2003, 12:21 AM
yeah but its still a cool place to work at.. I mean, did you see those shots from the office Christmas party last year?
TheGreenGiant
10-31-2003, 01:43 AM
I'm surprised some of you guys are even remotely backing up the dude, its people like these that caused security leaks. It might be a picture but it could easily be worse if there are rules in place to prevent such "incidents". Ever wonder why there's so many places with "NO photography" rules?
Back to the issue of security... this is not as back as the HL2 source code leak but its still bad. I say good on M$ for doing what must be done.
Back to the issue of security... this is not as back as the HL2 source code leak but its still bad. I say good on M$ for doing what must be done.
Ordibble-Plop
10-31-2003, 01:48 AM
In the real world people go to court too if they break the law, but the judge still has leeway when sentencing.
Security fired them because they had to, because their is no place for initiative in little cogs in big machines.
But the person has no room for complaint. They got fired because they were silly enough to post a picture in public and got caught.
Security fired them because they had to, because their is no place for initiative in little cogs in big machines.
But the person has no room for complaint. They got fired because they were silly enough to post a picture in public and got caught.
gmask
10-31-2003, 01:52 AM
Maybe they should print of a poster of this image and post it around the M$ campus :twisted:
http://gmask.com/odd/billiswatching.jpg
http://gmask.com/odd/billiswatching.jpg
Stahlberg
10-31-2003, 08:17 AM
If the guy brought in millions of dollars a year, they would be singing a different tone.
Damn right. And what's wrong with that? A looser moron like this guy, versus a genius that pulls in millions a year - which one would you fire first from your company? :)
To anyone who loves to rant against MS - first try to run a small-to-medium-sized company, one with at least 1 employee, and try to be successful at it for over a year (odds are you will fail and close down before that because most startups do, but at least try)... Depend on it for your sole income, for your survival, and that of your family... THEN, if you're still ranting - which I somehow doubt - I'll pay attention to you. :)
Damn right. And what's wrong with that? A looser moron like this guy, versus a genius that pulls in millions a year - which one would you fire first from your company? :)
To anyone who loves to rant against MS - first try to run a small-to-medium-sized company, one with at least 1 employee, and try to be successful at it for over a year (odds are you will fail and close down before that because most startups do, but at least try)... Depend on it for your sole income, for your survival, and that of your family... THEN, if you're still ranting - which I somehow doubt - I'll pay attention to you. :)
nobrain
10-31-2003, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by AR Atlas
Think of it in terms of how a Microsoft security person would see it:
The dude was walking around Microsoft campus with a digital camera, armed and ready. Do you think he saw the loading truck, ran back to the parking lot, got his digital camera, and then ran back in time to snap the pic before the computers were moved? No. He already had the camera with him taking pictures of god-knows-what. I think that is what gave MS security the creeps--not the content of this particular pic, but the thought of what this random temp was doing walking around campus with a camera in the first place.
Atlas
You're right, a dude walking around with digital camera snapping pictures in a high profile, high secrecy environment is likely to put ms officials on edge, but thats not scenario portrayed. he took a pic of some macs, put a clever caption to it and posted it, the guy is an artist.
Think of it in terms of how a Microsoft security person would see it:
The dude was walking around Microsoft campus with a digital camera, armed and ready. Do you think he saw the loading truck, ran back to the parking lot, got his digital camera, and then ran back in time to snap the pic before the computers were moved? No. He already had the camera with him taking pictures of god-knows-what. I think that is what gave MS security the creeps--not the content of this particular pic, but the thought of what this random temp was doing walking around campus with a camera in the first place.
Atlas
You're right, a dude walking around with digital camera snapping pictures in a high profile, high secrecy environment is likely to put ms officials on edge, but thats not scenario portrayed. he took a pic of some macs, put a clever caption to it and posted it, the guy is an artist.
Neil
10-31-2003, 04:49 PM
What does M$'s NDA entitle?
Does photography apply to their entire property or just inside buildings?
B/c like he said there isn't anything visible in the photo other than the truck... :hmm:
Does photography apply to their entire property or just inside buildings?
B/c like he said there isn't anything visible in the photo other than the truck... :hmm:
dmeyer
10-31-2003, 05:12 PM
I am by no means a fan of Microsoft, but they had every right to do what they did. Granted, in this case it seemed harmless, but if they let this one slide, then what? The next guy who takes a picture gets fired? Then the arguments ensue over what pictures are or are not allowed.
If it's in the NDA that pictures = fired, then he had it coming.
Also, we dont know the whole story...maybe the guy was on his way out anyway and they were looking for a reason? Just a theory...
If it's in the NDA that pictures = fired, then he had it coming.
Also, we dont know the whole story...maybe the guy was on his way out anyway and they were looking for a reason? Just a theory...
eple
10-31-2003, 06:12 PM
Ok, I know I'm beating a dead horse here. But, please step back from the keyboard and think for a minute.
Just because this is the LAW doesn't mean it is RIGHT. When African Americans were banned from public places (bathrooms, nightclubs, drinking water fountains, .............. for being black.
Was that RIGHT? Sure that was the LAW, but just because it was the LAW did not meant it was RIGHT, moral or ethical.
Same thing here, we as civilians keep loosing more and more of our rights day by day (cough:: patriot act) surveilance cameras everywhere, ISP's and Airlines handing over our private information without consulting their customers first.
Yeah, I'm going to be labled paranoid by some, naive by others. But, I too have had to sign an NDA at the company where I'm doing my internship right now. I know better than to post confidential information on the projects they are working on. But this poor guy at microsoft did not leak any confidential information about Longhorn, Athens, or any other microsoft top secret projects. He simply took a picture of some G5's and made a witty remark. There was never any secret about his identity
If you think getting fired because of that is justifiable, then please don't complain when you find yourself living in a police state.
PS: For Roberto and others who think politics don't belong on these forums. I ask you this: how dare you call yourself artists?
If you avoid important topics and issues and only address mundane subject matter in your work and posts, then craftsman might be a better tittle for you.:p
Just because this is the LAW doesn't mean it is RIGHT. When African Americans were banned from public places (bathrooms, nightclubs, drinking water fountains, .............. for being black.
Was that RIGHT? Sure that was the LAW, but just because it was the LAW did not meant it was RIGHT, moral or ethical.
Same thing here, we as civilians keep loosing more and more of our rights day by day (cough:: patriot act) surveilance cameras everywhere, ISP's and Airlines handing over our private information without consulting their customers first.
Yeah, I'm going to be labled paranoid by some, naive by others. But, I too have had to sign an NDA at the company where I'm doing my internship right now. I know better than to post confidential information on the projects they are working on. But this poor guy at microsoft did not leak any confidential information about Longhorn, Athens, or any other microsoft top secret projects. He simply took a picture of some G5's and made a witty remark. There was never any secret about his identity
If you think getting fired because of that is justifiable, then please don't complain when you find yourself living in a police state.
PS: For Roberto and others who think politics don't belong on these forums. I ask you this: how dare you call yourself artists?
If you avoid important topics and issues and only address mundane subject matter in your work and posts, then craftsman might be a better tittle for you.:p
nobrain
10-31-2003, 06:16 PM
=
HELL YEAH, SOMEBODY'S DEFINETLEY GOT THE RIGHT IDEA!!!
Eple what you say is absolutely true.
Were living in a war of nerds, dude. Personally I couldn't care for that all that corporate policy crap, it just sounds like fascism to me.
HELL YEAH, SOMEBODY'S DEFINETLEY GOT THE RIGHT IDEA!!!
Eple what you say is absolutely true.
Were living in a war of nerds, dude. Personally I couldn't care for that all that corporate policy crap, it just sounds like fascism to me.
gmask
10-31-2003, 06:19 PM
BILL GATES FOR PRESIDENT! :twisted:
dmeyer
10-31-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by eple
OWhen African Americans were banned from public places (bathrooms, nightclubs, drinking water fountains, .............. for being black.
Was that RIGHT? Sure that was the LAW, but just because it was the LAW did not meant it was RIGHT, moral or ethical.
To my knowledge no African-American ever willingly signed a legal contract stating that they were not allowed to go into said public places.
He did.
See the difference?
OWhen African Americans were banned from public places (bathrooms, nightclubs, drinking water fountains, .............. for being black.
Was that RIGHT? Sure that was the LAW, but just because it was the LAW did not meant it was RIGHT, moral or ethical.
To my knowledge no African-American ever willingly signed a legal contract stating that they were not allowed to go into said public places.
He did.
See the difference?
slime
10-31-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by eple
PS: For Roberto and others who think politics don't belong on these forums. I ask you this: how dare you call yourself artists?
If you avoid important topics and issues and only address mundane subject matter in your work and posts, then craftsman might be a better tittle for you.:p
I don't think art and politics are related.
I don't think politics should be discussed in cg forums.
But also, I didn't say I was an artist :)
dmeyer>> nice explanation. maybe with that they would understand ;)
PS: For Roberto and others who think politics don't belong on these forums. I ask you this: how dare you call yourself artists?
If you avoid important topics and issues and only address mundane subject matter in your work and posts, then craftsman might be a better tittle for you.:p
I don't think art and politics are related.
I don't think politics should be discussed in cg forums.
But also, I didn't say I was an artist :)
dmeyer>> nice explanation. maybe with that they would understand ;)
nobrain
10-31-2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by dmeyer
To my knowledge no African-American ever willingly signed a legal contract stating that they were not allowed to go into said public places.
He did.
See the difference?
True but if he had not signed the nda would he have still gotten the job, do u see the difference.
Basically it sounds and looks like freedom of choice but it really isn't.
To my knowledge no African-American ever willingly signed a legal contract stating that they were not allowed to go into said public places.
He did.
See the difference?
True but if he had not signed the nda would he have still gotten the job, do u see the difference.
Basically it sounds and looks like freedom of choice but it really isn't.
gmask
10-31-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by nobrain
True but if he had not signed the nda would he have still gotten the job, do u see the difference.
Basically it sounds and looks like freedom of choice but it really isn't.
Freedom of choice is to beable to make the decision to not work for companies whose policies you cannot abide or don't understand.
True but if he had not signed the nda would he have still gotten the job, do u see the difference.
Basically it sounds and looks like freedom of choice but it really isn't.
Freedom of choice is to beable to make the decision to not work for companies whose policies you cannot abide or don't understand.
slime
10-31-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by gmask
Freedom of choice is to beable to make the decision to not work for companies whose policies you cannot abide or don't understand.
Yeah, would be scary to had to work in microsoft by force :D
Freedom of choice is to beable to make the decision to not work for companies whose policies you cannot abide or don't understand.
Yeah, would be scary to had to work in microsoft by force :D
nobrain
10-31-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by gmask
Freedom of choice is to beable to make the decision to not work for companies whose policies you cannot abide or don't understand.
If you take and look at it man, its really just a circle, you can say he doesn't have to work for a company who's policies he has discrepancies with but really how many companies out there don't make you sign an nda. (even restaurants make sign an nda) If he really had a choice I don't think he would be working as a temp let alone as a temp for ms.
Freedom of choice is to beable to make the decision to not work for companies whose policies you cannot abide or don't understand.
If you take and look at it man, its really just a circle, you can say he doesn't have to work for a company who's policies he has discrepancies with but really how many companies out there don't make you sign an nda. (even restaurants make sign an nda) If he really had a choice I don't think he would be working as a temp let alone as a temp for ms.
gmask
10-31-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by slime
Yeah, would be scary to had to work in microsoft by force :D
Maybe from now on M$ employees may know better than to take pictures deliveries to the loading dock. :shame:
Yeah, would be scary to had to work in microsoft by force :D
Maybe from now on M$ employees may know better than to take pictures deliveries to the loading dock. :shame:
gmask
10-31-2003, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by nobrain
If you take and look at it man, its really just a circle, you can say he doesn't have to work for a company who's policies he has discrepancies with but really how many companies out there don't make you sign an nda. (even restaurants make sign an nda)
?? I've never had a job that made me sign a general NDA although on a client per client basis I may have to sign one.
Unless it's a new thing I never needed to sign a NDA for washing dishes or doing food prep in a restaurant. I could however se that if your restaurant has lots of business meetings and celebs that I as owner would not want the wait staff taking pictures of the clientele or spreading gossip.. so if the NDA says no employee is to bring a camera or recordign devices to work that means no pictures of nothing no matter how unobtrusive.
You can criticise M$ for not giving this guy a break but they are lcearly makign an example of him for th erest of the employees.. is there a mass exodus of employees as a result.. no
>>>If he really had a choice I don't think he would be working as a temp let alone as a temp for ms.
So if you aren't good enough for any other job then M$ owes you one.. wha????
If you take and look at it man, its really just a circle, you can say he doesn't have to work for a company who's policies he has discrepancies with but really how many companies out there don't make you sign an nda. (even restaurants make sign an nda)
?? I've never had a job that made me sign a general NDA although on a client per client basis I may have to sign one.
Unless it's a new thing I never needed to sign a NDA for washing dishes or doing food prep in a restaurant. I could however se that if your restaurant has lots of business meetings and celebs that I as owner would not want the wait staff taking pictures of the clientele or spreading gossip.. so if the NDA says no employee is to bring a camera or recordign devices to work that means no pictures of nothing no matter how unobtrusive.
You can criticise M$ for not giving this guy a break but they are lcearly makign an example of him for th erest of the employees.. is there a mass exodus of employees as a result.. no
>>>If he really had a choice I don't think he would be working as a temp let alone as a temp for ms.
So if you aren't good enough for any other job then M$ owes you one.. wha????
Neil
10-31-2003, 07:09 PM
A lot of the stuff in contracts you sign is just to cover their own ass. Whether or not it's just or practical could be debated forever.
Like leases you sign for living in apartments.
Is a $300 fine justified for having cigarette butts in the hallways?
Most likely if it happens, the landlord will just give you a warning, but then if they didn't like you to begin with, then they can hold you to what you signed.
That's why i agree that there might have been more to the story or people not liking his attitude to begin with.
Like leases you sign for living in apartments.
Is a $300 fine justified for having cigarette butts in the hallways?
Most likely if it happens, the landlord will just give you a warning, but then if they didn't like you to begin with, then they can hold you to what you signed.
That's why i agree that there might have been more to the story or people not liking his attitude to begin with.
nobrain
10-31-2003, 07:17 PM
Whatever man, this dude with the camera has gotten enough of the worlds attention, if knew how much heated debate he has caused on cgtalk alone then thats a hat he should be proud to wear. What all this has shown me is that there two types people in this world, those that side with corporate rule and those that don't, some might find security in having their life jotted to a contract others don't. and it all comes down to how much freedom in any part of society we, from the workplace to the hallways of your apartment building where u shouldn't drop ur cigarette butts but really do!
So if you live anywhere in the vicinity of 50 floor glass building filled with suits to the brim you can just kiss your freedom goodbye. and don't carry any digital cameras with you even though that the hottest item being pushed on tv these days, theyre even on cell phones. They want you to buy them but don't want you to use them. How much does the Man suck?
So if you live anywhere in the vicinity of 50 floor glass building filled with suits to the brim you can just kiss your freedom goodbye. and don't carry any digital cameras with you even though that the hottest item being pushed on tv these days, theyre even on cell phones. They want you to buy them but don't want you to use them. How much does the Man suck?
gmask
10-31-2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by nobrain
So if you live anywhere in the vicinity of 50 floor glass building filled with suits to the brim you can just kiss your freedom goodbye.
Enjoy your shack in the woods my friend.. that aren't many of them out there.
Just out of curiosity will you be getting rid of your PC? I mean even if it doesn't run windows it is basically the modern product of 50 story glass buildings with men dressed in suits.
In the meantime have a listen to "The Safety Dance" by "Men Without Hats"
S-s-s-s A-a-a-a F-f-f-f E-e-e-e T-t-t-t Y-y-y-y
Safe, dance!
[Spoken]
We can dance if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
'Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance
Well they're no friends of mine
I say, we can go where we want to
A place where they will never find
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind
And we can dance
[Sung]
We can dance if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
'Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance
Well they're no friends of mine
I say, we can go where we want to
A place where they will never find
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind
And we can dance
Danc¨Ĥe!
We can go when we want to
The night is young and so am I
And we can dress real neat from our hats to our feet
And surprise 'em with the victory cry
Say, we can act if want to
If we don't nobody will
And you can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile
[Refrain]
I say, we can dance, we can dance
Everything out of control
We can dance, we can dance
We're doing it from wall to wall
We can dance, we can dance
Everybody look at your hands
We can dance, we can dance
Everybody takin' the cha-a-a-ance
Safety dance
Is it safe to dance
Is it safe to dance
S-s-s-s A-a-a-a F-f-f-f E-e-e-e T-t-t-t Y-y-y-y
Safe, dance!
We can dance if we want to
We've got all your life and mine
As long as we abuse it, never gonna lose it
Everything'll work out right
I say, we can dance if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
'Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance
Well they're no friends of mine
[Refrain]
Is it safe to dance, oh is it safe to dance [6x]
Is it safe to dance
So if you live anywhere in the vicinity of 50 floor glass building filled with suits to the brim you can just kiss your freedom goodbye.
Enjoy your shack in the woods my friend.. that aren't many of them out there.
Just out of curiosity will you be getting rid of your PC? I mean even if it doesn't run windows it is basically the modern product of 50 story glass buildings with men dressed in suits.
In the meantime have a listen to "The Safety Dance" by "Men Without Hats"
S-s-s-s A-a-a-a F-f-f-f E-e-e-e T-t-t-t Y-y-y-y
Safe, dance!
[Spoken]
We can dance if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
'Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance
Well they're no friends of mine
I say, we can go where we want to
A place where they will never find
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind
And we can dance
[Sung]
We can dance if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
'Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance
Well they're no friends of mine
I say, we can go where we want to
A place where they will never find
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind
And we can dance
Danc¨Ĥe!
We can go when we want to
The night is young and so am I
And we can dress real neat from our hats to our feet
And surprise 'em with the victory cry
Say, we can act if want to
If we don't nobody will
And you can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile
[Refrain]
I say, we can dance, we can dance
Everything out of control
We can dance, we can dance
We're doing it from wall to wall
We can dance, we can dance
Everybody look at your hands
We can dance, we can dance
Everybody takin' the cha-a-a-ance
Safety dance
Is it safe to dance
Is it safe to dance
S-s-s-s A-a-a-a F-f-f-f E-e-e-e T-t-t-t Y-y-y-y
Safe, dance!
We can dance if we want to
We've got all your life and mine
As long as we abuse it, never gonna lose it
Everything'll work out right
I say, we can dance if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
'Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance
Well they're no friends of mine
[Refrain]
Is it safe to dance, oh is it safe to dance [6x]
Is it safe to dance
nobrain
10-31-2003, 07:27 PM
that is the gayest song on the face of this planet.........
gmask
10-31-2003, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by nobrain
that is the gayest song on the face of this planet.........
It sound real good on your jambox out in the woods :scream:
that is the gayest song on the face of this planet.........
It sound real good on your jambox out in the woods :scream:
nobrain
10-31-2003, 07:38 PM
This is pointless man, you know this kind of discussion is a no no on the forums so what are trying to get at and besides you are starting to resemble your avatar.
dmeyer
10-31-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by nobrain
True but if he had not signed the nda would he have still gotten the job, do u see the difference.
Basically it sounds and looks like freedom of choice but it really isn't.
I would say it's closer about being responsible. He signed away his "freedom to take pictures" when he signed the NDA. Therefore, he must be responsible for what he agreed to. It's got nothing to do with The Man or what have you.
Subjectively, yeah i think it's a bit extreme to fire someone for taking pictures of the back of a FEDEX truck...but....sign an NDA that says you get fired for taking pictures, then proceed to take pictures, then get fired. Sounds logical to me.
True but if he had not signed the nda would he have still gotten the job, do u see the difference.
Basically it sounds and looks like freedom of choice but it really isn't.
I would say it's closer about being responsible. He signed away his "freedom to take pictures" when he signed the NDA. Therefore, he must be responsible for what he agreed to. It's got nothing to do with The Man or what have you.
Subjectively, yeah i think it's a bit extreme to fire someone for taking pictures of the back of a FEDEX truck...but....sign an NDA that says you get fired for taking pictures, then proceed to take pictures, then get fired. Sounds logical to me.
gmask
10-31-2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by nobrain
This is pointless man, you know this kind of discussion is a no no on the forums so what are trying to get at and besides you are starting to resemble your avatar.
So you are saying that you are a tape measure with a ying yang on it? I mean that's what your avatar looks like to me?
Here's a little parody of the Safety Dance song
"M$ Dance" by "Men without Pants"
M-i-c-r-o-s-o-f-t
Safe, Pants!
[Spoken]
We can wear pants if we want to
We can leave your cameras behind
'Cause your employees don't where pants and if they don't prance
Well they're no employes of mine
I say, we can take pictures of what we want to
In a cabin where they will never care
And we can dress like we come from the M$ campus
Leave the loading dock far behind
And we can were pants
[Sung]
We can wear pants if we want to
We can leave the loading dock behind
'Cause your employees don't wear pants and if they don't prance
Well they're no employees of mine
I say, we can take pictures of what we want to
In a cabin where they will never find
And we can dress like we come from the M$ campus
Leave the loading dock far behind
And we can wear pants
Prance
We can wear pants if we want to
This employee is young and so am I
And we can take pictures real neat of our cabin and our street
And surprise 'em with the whiney cry
Say, we can wear pants if want to
If we don't nobody will
And you can act real crude and be totally prude
And I can act like an M$ employee
[Refrain]
I say, we can wear pants, we can wear pants
Pants are out of control
We can wear pants, we can wear pants
We're doing it from mall to mall
We can wear pants, we can wear pants
Everybody look at your pants
We can wear pants, we can wear pants
Everybody takin' off their pants
Safety pants
Is it safe to wear pants
Is it safe to wear pants
M-i-c-r-o-s-o-f-t
can wear pants
We can wear pants if we want to
We've got all your bases and mine
As long as we take pcitures of it, never gonna wear them
Everybody'll be out of their pants tonight
I say, we can wear pants if we want to
We can leave your loading dock behind
'Cause your employees won't wear pants and if they don't prance
Well they're no employees of mine
[Refrain]
Is it safe to wear pants , oh is it safe to wear pants[6x]
Is it safe to wear pants
This is pointless man, you know this kind of discussion is a no no on the forums so what are trying to get at and besides you are starting to resemble your avatar.
So you are saying that you are a tape measure with a ying yang on it? I mean that's what your avatar looks like to me?
Here's a little parody of the Safety Dance song
"M$ Dance" by "Men without Pants"
M-i-c-r-o-s-o-f-t
Safe, Pants!
[Spoken]
We can wear pants if we want to
We can leave your cameras behind
'Cause your employees don't where pants and if they don't prance
Well they're no employes of mine
I say, we can take pictures of what we want to
In a cabin where they will never care
And we can dress like we come from the M$ campus
Leave the loading dock far behind
And we can were pants
[Sung]
We can wear pants if we want to
We can leave the loading dock behind
'Cause your employees don't wear pants and if they don't prance
Well they're no employees of mine
I say, we can take pictures of what we want to
In a cabin where they will never find
And we can dress like we come from the M$ campus
Leave the loading dock far behind
And we can wear pants
Prance
We can wear pants if we want to
This employee is young and so am I
And we can take pictures real neat of our cabin and our street
And surprise 'em with the whiney cry
Say, we can wear pants if want to
If we don't nobody will
And you can act real crude and be totally prude
And I can act like an M$ employee
[Refrain]
I say, we can wear pants, we can wear pants
Pants are out of control
We can wear pants, we can wear pants
We're doing it from mall to mall
We can wear pants, we can wear pants
Everybody look at your pants
We can wear pants, we can wear pants
Everybody takin' off their pants
Safety pants
Is it safe to wear pants
Is it safe to wear pants
M-i-c-r-o-s-o-f-t
can wear pants
We can wear pants if we want to
We've got all your bases and mine
As long as we take pcitures of it, never gonna wear them
Everybody'll be out of their pants tonight
I say, we can wear pants if we want to
We can leave your loading dock behind
'Cause your employees won't wear pants and if they don't prance
Well they're no employees of mine
[Refrain]
Is it safe to wear pants , oh is it safe to wear pants[6x]
Is it safe to wear pants
ambient-whisper
10-31-2003, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by eple
PS: For Roberto and others who think politics don't belong on these forums. I ask you this: how dare you call yourself artists?
If you avoid important topics and issues and only address mundane subject matter in your work and posts, then craftsman might be a better tittle for you.:p
because weve been down that road before. and it always turns ugly. thats why if you insist on posting political subjects that turn to flames( they ALWAYS DO ) then dont be surprised when someday you cant be able to post here.
thats not a threat by any means. its just that the policy on this site is there for a reason, to avoid past issues that weve had, and had often.
cheers and have fun .
PS: For Roberto and others who think politics don't belong on these forums. I ask you this: how dare you call yourself artists?
If you avoid important topics and issues and only address mundane subject matter in your work and posts, then craftsman might be a better tittle for you.:p
because weve been down that road before. and it always turns ugly. thats why if you insist on posting political subjects that turn to flames( they ALWAYS DO ) then dont be surprised when someday you cant be able to post here.
thats not a threat by any means. its just that the policy on this site is there for a reason, to avoid past issues that weve had, and had often.
cheers and have fun .
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