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ljilekor
10-29-2003, 11:18 AM
To be completely honest, I really don't like the way weights are incorporated in Messiah.
Wouldn't it be better to be able to import weightMaps from LW (or an other 3D app). U can find a plugin that does this at the following addres:
http://home.iprimus.com.au/interpol/WeightImport.zip
Hail Simeon Nasilowski is the author.
simeon@iprimus.com.au

The problem is that it creates a metaeffector for each point on the mesh. (mesh with 20.000 points = 20.000 metaeffectors). It's obvious that this kills performance.

Get rid of those stupid metaeffector spheres (or just keep them as a last resort). It's much more versatile to assign weight maps in a modeler app.
If weight values are known it's even possible to import/export bone hierarchies to 3rd party apps (the deformations will match). It really would be nice to be able to choose between exporting a displacement (F12) or exporting bonehierarchy motions(? F11 ?).
Just like the way it's done in MotionBuilder. One of its only advantages left compared to Messiah (according to me). And it stays fast.

If they can do it, you guys will do it better !

Messiah is the best, just want it to stay the best.:buttrock:

Stoehr
11-03-2003, 09:43 PM
Thanks for the link.

I too, am in support of a cross-program weighting. I mentioned this already in another thread, but twice doesn't hurt.

lmilton
11-04-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by ljilekor
Get rid of those stupid metaeffector spheres (or just keep them as a last resort). It's much more versatile to assign weight maps in a modeler app.

I think we'd spark any angry mob if we got rid of those "stupid metaeffectors";) At the risk of sounding argumentative, direct weight assignments is really the last resort. It's the thing you'd do when all reusable methods fail... and it's doubtful that the current methods would fail if you really got in there and understood them a little better.

This isn't to say that you don't have a point about reading the weights from objects. And I believe I said it's something we'd be exploring (sorry if I didn't... it may have slipped my mind).

Thanx for your support!:)

-lyle

Julez4001
11-04-2003, 07:32 PM
Another valid point to weighting, model and pose your character for optimum bone setup.

Nando
11-04-2003, 07:49 PM
lmilton,

I think it time for a weight system video like the armatures, and bones Video.

I been glancing over the threads here, and on the Maya forum and have noticed that folks just don't understand that Messiah doesn't need/require the old weight system that other packages are currently using, and I think Maybe a Video of how Messiah's revolutionary Weight system works would be nice.
:D
Also the dark star ui in the video's would show folks that the product is not LW.

:thumbsup:

lmilton
11-04-2003, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Nando
lmilton,

I think it time for a weight system video like the armatures, and bones Video.

I been glancing over the threads here, and on the Maya forum and have noticed that folks just don't understand that Messiah doesn't need/require the old weight system that other packages are currently using, and I think Maybe a Video of how Messiah's revolutionary Weight system works would be nice.
:D
Also the dark star ui in the video's would show folks that the product is not LW.

:thumbsup:

All good points, Nando:thumbsup:

-lyle

tOd
11-04-2003, 08:18 PM
I just got Joe Cosmans mini video tuts and he goes over weighting in messiah. All I can say is awsome!!! Poeple who dont like them just dont understand them which I cant say is all thier fault.
The docs could be better. Sorry Fred. I know you do your best wich Im sure is better than I. :D

I wish the docs were as clear as Joes video but you know what they say about a picture.

Carm3D
11-04-2003, 10:35 PM
I haven't use Messiah's Meta Effectors extensively yet, but I plan to soon.. As soon as other projects are out of the way.. But I had this bright idea how I can do it and I thought I'd share it with you all...

For really cramped areas where points are really close to eachother (like eyelids and corners of the mouth), go into LW Modeler, Hide all polys except for the ones you are immediately concerned with. Then use "Save Layer as Object" and save to a NEW object file.

Back in Messiah, replace your object with the temporary object you just made. This should make it very clean and clear.. Then you can go placing tiny Meta Effectors on the individual points.

A workable solution... Still not as easy as using LW Weights, however (had to cast my vote for that too!).

ljilekor
11-06-2003, 03:58 PM
Yeh yeh:wise:

I havn't seen joe's tutorial. Where can I get it?

For me, weights are a bunch of MetaEffectors on which you can attach some spheres that define the weight. You can finetune each of those spheres by defining the influence.
For me it's just another way to define weights. In the end (I think) a weightvalue gets assigned to each vertex, whether it was defined by the default messiahinfluences (which are reeely great), Limited Range, Metaeffectors or a 3rd party app, ... Spheres may compute faster. That's important if they are computed on every frame. But, in most cases, they only have to be set or calculated once, since ,in most cases, they're not animated.

I admit that thé great thing about the effectors is that they can be animated (never tried though). eg. animate the influence of a softbody on a mesh. But I think it's possible to combine both systems.

I still think it would be great to have the possibility to import/export the bones and their influences from and to a 3rd party app (like in motionbuilder). Variety is the spice of life.
It may be a bad commercial move because of the renderer in M:Studio, though.

But, think of all those happy users.

BTW, great ur working on this!:thumbsup:

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